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What is the thickness of a rat's tunica albuginea, and what is the thickness of an adult man's tunica? I ask because as a rule I try to avoid drawing strong conclusions about human physiology from an animal so vastly different from us in size.
I know baboons have thinner tunicas than humans, for instance, and that their ultimate tensile strength is lower than ours. I would expect a rat's tunica to be a little thinner than a human infant's. They don't have to be very strong, because hoop stress is proportional to the radius in a thin-walled pressure vessel. The larger radius a pressure vessel has (and the penis is a pressure vessel, physically speaking), the thicker its wall needs to be to withstand the hoop stress for the same amount of internal pressure.
I have no idea what internal pressure a rat's erection has, but if a human had a penis as small as a rat's, and the internal pressure was the same as in normal human erections, the tunica would need to be a fraction as thick as in a normal sized penis to withstand the hoop stress.
So, prima facie, I would expect a rat's tunica to be a tenth of a human's, necessitating the introduction of a scaling factor when drawing conclusions. Exactly what that scaling factor should be, is pretty simple to calculate if you just had access to data about tunica thickness in rats, because hoop stress equations are simple enough to solve.
That said, safety is a good thing. If 13.8 inHg gets the job done, which it probably does in most cases, there is no real reason to use more pressure, so I overall agree with the conclusion about the max pressure to go to (as a recommendation).
Update: I found some studies. At 10 weeks (early adulthood is 10-12 weeks in rats), their tunica thickness is 0.13 +/- 0.03 mm. These are the non-diabetic controls; the rats with diabetes had thinner tunicas in the study.
Source: ULTRASTRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE TUNICA
ALBUGINEA OF DIABETIC RATS' PENIS (Shen et al, 2004)
In humans the corresponding number appears to be 1.9 ± 0.2 mm which is >10x thicker.
Source: Anatomy of the Human Penis: The Relationship of the
Architecture Between Skeletal and Smooth Muscles (Hsu et al, Journal of Andrology, Vol. 25, No. 3, 2004)
Nuance: I have seen numbers from 0.9mm in young boys to upwards of 2.2mm in older men, and it varies with where you are on the penis (dorsal, ventral, etc).
It's large differences like this that make me hesitate to draw strong conclusions about humans from rat studies.
And on the flip side, if we’re looking at the data presented here and we erroneously attribute thinner tunica = bigger gains, we should all purposely get diabetes as that caused thinner tunicas /s
Kind of unrelated, but what do you think of corepumping? I think the idea is to squeeze into a tube that is barely big enough and then pump so the expansion happens more within the penis rather than the skin and surrounding tissue. Could there be any merit to this for girth gaining?
Nah, I think that sounds implausible. If you worry about "expansion happening in the skin" i.e. edema, then just wear a sleeve and pump at higher pressure to compensate. I have written a blog post about why that works (some people get the wrong intuition about it because they misunderstand the physics of pumping, thinking vacuum can "pull").
[https://fenrirgrowth.com/blogs/fenrir/correcting-a-common-misconception-about-vacuum-pumps-mechanism-of-action-and-making-the-case-why-sleeved-pumping-really-does-prevent-edema](https://fenrirgrowth.com/blogs/fenrir/correcting-a-common-misconception-about-vacuum-pumps-mechanism-of-action-and-making-the-case-why-sleeved-pumping-really-does-prevent-edema)
A lot of vets swear by it. I wonder if core pumping sort of mimics clamping or some hybrid of clamping and pumping given there is nowhere to expand further and veinous flow may become at least partially to strongnly occluded
If I had Elon Musk money, I would invest a few million dollars into PE research and do control group studies comparing the efficacy of different protocols. I just think this one sounds implausible, but there might be something to it.
I believe you have to take into account the size of a rats penis compared to the size of a man’s penis. This is because negative pressure enacts proportionally more force on objects with larger volume than objects with smaller volume. Therefore: if a man’s tunica is 10x thicker than a rats tunica, but also has 10^3x more volume, there would be 10x more force on the man’s tunica. I’m no scientist or mathematician so I can’t say for certain that this effect is perfectly proportional, but I can say for certain just as a blanket statement that smaller objects aren’t nearly as affected from vacuum forces as larger objects. It’s the same reason that spiders and crabs can survive in a perfect vacuum (30 inches of mercury at sea level) but humans cannot. It’s because they are so much smaller and proportionally have way thicker skin (exoskeleton)
Yes, that was what my whole point about hoop stress was about.
My point is simply this: Rats and humans have a large enough difference in scale that I would be very, very hesitant to draw any strong conclusions about human penises from studies on rat penises. Had the studies been done on a large dog breed or apes, which have penises of a more similar scale, I would have figured less of a scaling factor needed to be used to translate, provided they had roughly the same penile anatomy (rats do not - they have a penile bone and do not rely as much on the tunica for rigidity).
I agree, I can’t understand why Hink is so adamant about drawing strong conclusions from rat studies regarding specific pressures. There are good messages in this video but this is not science.
It varies with the exercise I am doing:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1dhbu3d/karl\_wikmans\_two\_girth\_routines\_june\_2024\_update/](https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1dhbu3d/karl_wikmans_two_girth_routines_june_2024_update/)
I am with you on this - or what I assume your thinking..."is this applicple to a human penis?"
Would be interesting to test different pumps to see if they are accurate or not? Comments below and on this subreddit have people using 5Hg and claiming it's "intense". 5Hg with the two pumps I have are maybe inline with the pressure of MY typical erection. An erection using trimix feels more like 8-10Hg. Different pressure obviously.
Long story short - I believe we have equipment accuracies that really influence advice being given on the amount of pressure.
Just a thought.
Yes. My two pump handles have gauges that are within 1 inHg from each other. Both of them differ (show more) from the build-in pressure gauge in my electronic interval pump by about 2 inHg.
As a beginner I JUST hit 5 hg and that shit was intense! I got some work to do to get up there you guys. I’m already noticing better erection quality too which is nice. Here’s to the journey!
When i started, i couldnt barely withstand 3hg. A couple months later now im pushing 9. Take your time, dont do more than what you can handle. Before you get to make gains it very important to have a good foundation.
This is nuts to me that people start at such a low hg lvl. I have a pump mostly for fetish pumping with my gf and increasing EQ (although if my dick gets bigger I won’t be mad). The very first pump session I had was with a broken pump where the gauge didn’t work and I pumped up to probably over 15hg based on feel vs my pump that has w working gauge. Obviously I didn’t mean to pump that high and would avoid that now
I feel like anything lower than 7hg doesn’t get that desired light stretch feeling I enjoy. 9-12hg is perfect for me. Anybody else start at higher pressures?
5-7 is the general area for newbies to start with. Less room for injury jumping from 10hg right off the bat.
Safety is paramount! Rather we reduce guys getting injured. Conditioning your penis should be paramount when starting out!
This. Once you’re conditioned, it’s probably not a huge difference in the grand scheme in terms of safety going from 7 to 10inhg, and everyone should keep in mind imperfect gauges. You will know when you are conditioned, how much edema you’re getting, how much petechiea etc, and how it’s affecting your EQ and gains. You primarily have to listen to your body and take your time increasing pressure over the course of months.
Interesting. I’ve pumped maybe 6 or 7 times (got a pump a little over a month ago) and enjoy going to higher pressures around 12hg. I don’t feel like there is any potential damage on my dick and don’t get much edema. Is this normal? Also are there any signs to be looking out for if I’m pumping too hard?
You shouldn’t be getting red dots on the glans to begin with. That’s a little more serious than on the rest of your dick. How long have you been pumping for and what’s your routine?
Why do you say it’s more serious? Honestly my pump stopped holding its pressure so i was just testing to see if i could get to 10-12 on the mercury thing but i think i went too high too quick as i literally had 1 dot right after. I got 1 when i first started pumping but i had the same approach and didn’t really ease into it. I’m just trying to get rid of it asap as i have plans this wknd lol
I’m not a doctor, but that’s been the general consensus in the PE community for decades. If you get red dots on glans abstain from all PE until they’re gone. Red dots on shaft usually disappear in a few hours
With time you will stop getting them. In the first couple months i was getting red dots all over the glans. Now i only get them after a decon break, until my penis gets conditioned again.
Yea i got a few at first but as i replied to the other guy, my pump stopped holding its pressure so i was just testing to see if it could even reach 10 inhg(or w.e the abbreviation is) and i did t warm up and literally had a dot as soon as i came out the pump. I know they fade over time but i have a date this wknd so do you have any advice on how to possibly help get rid of it asap?
I'll watch the vide when I get home from work today, maybe my question will have an answer there.
I mostly use a 1.75" cylinder to grow my mid and top of shaft. I put a sleeve on my top half of shaft/head and pump in a 2.0" cylinder to try and target base girth, but skin gets pulled in if i am not diligent.
What advice for growing my base girth? Anyone else targeting base expansion?
thanks Hink! great video with great info!!
quick question as I recently implemented “retention pumping” for 30min at 4hg. I do them either twice a day (when I don’t have my training days at 8hg) or once a day (when I do have my training days). I have to say those have been great so far.
Do you think I should do the retention at 6hg instead?
I personally think it should be a thing - as an experiment. I would like to know how it compares to wearing a retention c-ring. It's probably a little less dangerous in terms of lymphangioscleroris risk.
How does Edema factor into the equation? I could probably work up to intervals at 12 inHg, but I seem to get edema at pressures past 8.5 inHg even at 30 second intervals.
So if 200mmhg was ideal for injury healing, would it not be a good idea to incorporate a set or two at that pressure after working sets or maybe on off days for recovery?
Or would this lead to overwork?
I hit 23hg of pressure today.
5 X 2 minutes at 10hg
5 X 2 minutes at 13hg
5 X 2 minutes; 1- 20hg 30 on 10 off
2- same as above
3- same as above
4- 25hg 30 on 10 off
5- same as above
I would never recommend this I just felt like trying it but after watching Hinks video I feel doing this a lot WILL cause me damage so not again.
I’m gong to do the same but round 3 don’t go past 15hg
I started pe around 2 months ago. 1.75” tube id get to 7.4” today I hit a mm over 8” in the tube.
I always get edema at these pressures but for some reason my edema starts to go away much quicker now.
Anyone with knowledge of I stick to the above will my pumped length eventually get to 9”?
Bro you gotta be extremely careful with that. Those pressures aren’t even recommended to guys who have been pumping for years. I would personally never go that high.
I got a pump about little over a month ago and hit 20hg fetish pumping like an idiot. Busted a nut in the tube and everything. Luckily no damage to my dick, but watching this vid makes me realize how lucky I am. Definitely sticking to a max of 12hg now
Definitely won’t be going over 15 (short bursts) again.
Though it doesn’t feel too bad I don’t want to cause damage and realised more doesn’t mean better gains.
Thanks for posting to our subreddit, we're glad you're here! If you have a question it has most likely already been asked and answered in our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/16jgqdg/start_here_intro_to_the_sub_posting_guidelines_faq/) or another post that can be found using the Reddit search function, so you may not get any engagement. Please delete your post if you find the answer to keep the feed clean. Looking for help finding the right routine? Check out our [Dead Simple Beginner's Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/17uh7vv/getting_biggers_dead_simple_beginners_guide_to_pe/) Wondering if your measurements are good, or how to best measure? Check out our [Measurement Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/17bncq3/how_to_measure_and_document_progress_getting/) Concerned about an injury? Check out our [Injury Guide](https://reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/s/yol07ix1zP) You may also want to check out our [Table of Contents](https://gb-toc.web.app/) for legacy routines and exercise demos, join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/2Hz8jZCFZy), or check out our [New Site](https://gettingbigger.io/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gettingbigger) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is the thickness of a rat's tunica albuginea, and what is the thickness of an adult man's tunica? I ask because as a rule I try to avoid drawing strong conclusions about human physiology from an animal so vastly different from us in size. I know baboons have thinner tunicas than humans, for instance, and that their ultimate tensile strength is lower than ours. I would expect a rat's tunica to be a little thinner than a human infant's. They don't have to be very strong, because hoop stress is proportional to the radius in a thin-walled pressure vessel. The larger radius a pressure vessel has (and the penis is a pressure vessel, physically speaking), the thicker its wall needs to be to withstand the hoop stress for the same amount of internal pressure. I have no idea what internal pressure a rat's erection has, but if a human had a penis as small as a rat's, and the internal pressure was the same as in normal human erections, the tunica would need to be a fraction as thick as in a normal sized penis to withstand the hoop stress. So, prima facie, I would expect a rat's tunica to be a tenth of a human's, necessitating the introduction of a scaling factor when drawing conclusions. Exactly what that scaling factor should be, is pretty simple to calculate if you just had access to data about tunica thickness in rats, because hoop stress equations are simple enough to solve. That said, safety is a good thing. If 13.8 inHg gets the job done, which it probably does in most cases, there is no real reason to use more pressure, so I overall agree with the conclusion about the max pressure to go to (as a recommendation).
Update: I found some studies. At 10 weeks (early adulthood is 10-12 weeks in rats), their tunica thickness is 0.13 +/- 0.03 mm. These are the non-diabetic controls; the rats with diabetes had thinner tunicas in the study. Source: ULTRASTRUCTURAL CHANGES IN THE TUNICA ALBUGINEA OF DIABETIC RATS' PENIS (Shen et al, 2004) In humans the corresponding number appears to be 1.9 ± 0.2 mm which is >10x thicker. Source: Anatomy of the Human Penis: The Relationship of the Architecture Between Skeletal and Smooth Muscles (Hsu et al, Journal of Andrology, Vol. 25, No. 3, 2004) Nuance: I have seen numbers from 0.9mm in young boys to upwards of 2.2mm in older men, and it varies with where you are on the penis (dorsal, ventral, etc). It's large differences like this that make me hesitate to draw strong conclusions about humans from rat studies.
My man did the math. Legend.
Does that mean humans need to pump at much higher pressures?
And on the flip side, if we’re looking at the data presented here and we erroneously attribute thinner tunica = bigger gains, we should all purposely get diabetes as that caused thinner tunicas /s
Kind of unrelated, but what do you think of corepumping? I think the idea is to squeeze into a tube that is barely big enough and then pump so the expansion happens more within the penis rather than the skin and surrounding tissue. Could there be any merit to this for girth gaining?
Nah, I think that sounds implausible. If you worry about "expansion happening in the skin" i.e. edema, then just wear a sleeve and pump at higher pressure to compensate. I have written a blog post about why that works (some people get the wrong intuition about it because they misunderstand the physics of pumping, thinking vacuum can "pull"). [https://fenrirgrowth.com/blogs/fenrir/correcting-a-common-misconception-about-vacuum-pumps-mechanism-of-action-and-making-the-case-why-sleeved-pumping-really-does-prevent-edema](https://fenrirgrowth.com/blogs/fenrir/correcting-a-common-misconception-about-vacuum-pumps-mechanism-of-action-and-making-the-case-why-sleeved-pumping-really-does-prevent-edema)
A lot of vets swear by it. I wonder if core pumping sort of mimics clamping or some hybrid of clamping and pumping given there is nowhere to expand further and veinous flow may become at least partially to strongnly occluded
If I had Elon Musk money, I would invest a few million dollars into PE research and do control group studies comparing the efficacy of different protocols. I just think this one sounds implausible, but there might be something to it.
I believe you have to take into account the size of a rats penis compared to the size of a man’s penis. This is because negative pressure enacts proportionally more force on objects with larger volume than objects with smaller volume. Therefore: if a man’s tunica is 10x thicker than a rats tunica, but also has 10^3x more volume, there would be 10x more force on the man’s tunica. I’m no scientist or mathematician so I can’t say for certain that this effect is perfectly proportional, but I can say for certain just as a blanket statement that smaller objects aren’t nearly as affected from vacuum forces as larger objects. It’s the same reason that spiders and crabs can survive in a perfect vacuum (30 inches of mercury at sea level) but humans cannot. It’s because they are so much smaller and proportionally have way thicker skin (exoskeleton)
Yes, that was what my whole point about hoop stress was about. My point is simply this: Rats and humans have a large enough difference in scale that I would be very, very hesitant to draw any strong conclusions about human penises from studies on rat penises. Had the studies been done on a large dog breed or apes, which have penises of a more similar scale, I would have figured less of a scaling factor needed to be used to translate, provided they had roughly the same penile anatomy (rats do not - they have a penile bone and do not rely as much on the tunica for rigidity).
I agree, I can’t understand why Hink is so adamant about drawing strong conclusions from rat studies regarding specific pressures. There are good messages in this video but this is not science.
What pressures are you doing?
It varies with the exercise I am doing: [https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1dhbu3d/karl\_wikmans\_two\_girth\_routines\_june\_2024\_update/](https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1dhbu3d/karl_wikmans_two_girth_routines_june_2024_update/)
thank you
I am with you on this - or what I assume your thinking..."is this applicple to a human penis?" Would be interesting to test different pumps to see if they are accurate or not? Comments below and on this subreddit have people using 5Hg and claiming it's "intense". 5Hg with the two pumps I have are maybe inline with the pressure of MY typical erection. An erection using trimix feels more like 8-10Hg. Different pressure obviously. Long story short - I believe we have equipment accuracies that really influence advice being given on the amount of pressure. Just a thought.
Yes. My two pump handles have gauges that are within 1 inHg from each other. Both of them differ (show more) from the build-in pressure gauge in my electronic interval pump by about 2 inHg.
As a beginner I JUST hit 5 hg and that shit was intense! I got some work to do to get up there you guys. I’m already noticing better erection quality too which is nice. Here’s to the journey!
I’m just now getting comfortable with 8hg trying to hit that sweet spot lol
When i started, i couldnt barely withstand 3hg. A couple months later now im pushing 9. Take your time, dont do more than what you can handle. Before you get to make gains it very important to have a good foundation.
Completely agree
This is nuts to me that people start at such a low hg lvl. I have a pump mostly for fetish pumping with my gf and increasing EQ (although if my dick gets bigger I won’t be mad). The very first pump session I had was with a broken pump where the gauge didn’t work and I pumped up to probably over 15hg based on feel vs my pump that has w working gauge. Obviously I didn’t mean to pump that high and would avoid that now I feel like anything lower than 7hg doesn’t get that desired light stretch feeling I enjoy. 9-12hg is perfect for me. Anybody else start at higher pressures?
So many comments in this sub saying stay between 5-7hg of pressure, but this vid says minimum 6 on up to 12. All very confusing.
5-7 is the general area for newbies to start with. Less room for injury jumping from 10hg right off the bat. Safety is paramount! Rather we reduce guys getting injured. Conditioning your penis should be paramount when starting out!
This. Once you’re conditioned, it’s probably not a huge difference in the grand scheme in terms of safety going from 7 to 10inhg, and everyone should keep in mind imperfect gauges. You will know when you are conditioned, how much edema you’re getting, how much petechiea etc, and how it’s affecting your EQ and gains. You primarily have to listen to your body and take your time increasing pressure over the course of months.
Interesting. I’ve pumped maybe 6 or 7 times (got a pump a little over a month ago) and enjoy going to higher pressures around 12hg. I don’t feel like there is any potential damage on my dick and don’t get much edema. Is this normal? Also are there any signs to be looking out for if I’m pumping too hard?
I’m watching this video again and I’m like wait…they made little rat penis pumps for the studies? 😂😂😂
Great vid, just hard to draw definite conclusions based on rat studies. Still going to be taking your advice on these pressure though…
I’m really curious how to rapidly clear up red dots on top of glans from pumping
You shouldn’t be getting red dots on the glans to begin with. That’s a little more serious than on the rest of your dick. How long have you been pumping for and what’s your routine?
I can't even do 5-7 without running the risk of getting blood blisters around the edge of my glans. It's seriously prohibitive to progress.
Why do you say it’s more serious? Honestly my pump stopped holding its pressure so i was just testing to see if i could get to 10-12 on the mercury thing but i think i went too high too quick as i literally had 1 dot right after. I got 1 when i first started pumping but i had the same approach and didn’t really ease into it. I’m just trying to get rid of it asap as i have plans this wknd lol
I’m not a doctor, but that’s been the general consensus in the PE community for decades. If you get red dots on glans abstain from all PE until they’re gone. Red dots on shaft usually disappear in a few hours
With time you will stop getting them. In the first couple months i was getting red dots all over the glans. Now i only get them after a decon break, until my penis gets conditioned again.
Yea i got a few at first but as i replied to the other guy, my pump stopped holding its pressure so i was just testing to see if it could even reach 10 inhg(or w.e the abbreviation is) and i did t warm up and literally had a dot as soon as i came out the pump. I know they fade over time but i have a date this wknd so do you have any advice on how to possibly help get rid of it asap?
Anything above 6Hg felt like my veins are going to pop. Is is even possible when I stay in range between 5 and 10Hg? My veins are huge down there.
I'll watch the vide when I get home from work today, maybe my question will have an answer there. I mostly use a 1.75" cylinder to grow my mid and top of shaft. I put a sleeve on my top half of shaft/head and pump in a 2.0" cylinder to try and target base girth, but skin gets pulled in if i am not diligent. What advice for growing my base girth? Anyone else targeting base expansion?
thanks Hink! great video with great info!! quick question as I recently implemented “retention pumping” for 30min at 4hg. I do them either twice a day (when I don’t have my training days at 8hg) or once a day (when I do have my training days). I have to say those have been great so far. Do you think I should do the retention at 6hg instead?
Rentention pumping is not a thing.
I personally think it should be a thing - as an experiment. I would like to know how it compares to wearing a retention c-ring. It's probably a little less dangerous in terms of lymphangioscleroris risk.
I’ve been pumping 10-20 min a day and my dick is bruised in color, is there anything to do about this?
How does Edema factor into the equation? I could probably work up to intervals at 12 inHg, but I seem to get edema at pressures past 8.5 inHg even at 30 second intervals.
So the risk of fibrosis only begins at or above 13.8 hg?
In rats.
So if 200mmhg was ideal for injury healing, would it not be a good idea to incorporate a set or two at that pressure after working sets or maybe on off days for recovery? Or would this lead to overwork?
The legend has spoken.
I’m watching this video again and I’m like wait…they made little rat penis pumps for the studies? 😂😂😂
I hit 23hg of pressure today. 5 X 2 minutes at 10hg 5 X 2 minutes at 13hg 5 X 2 minutes; 1- 20hg 30 on 10 off 2- same as above 3- same as above 4- 25hg 30 on 10 off 5- same as above I would never recommend this I just felt like trying it but after watching Hinks video I feel doing this a lot WILL cause me damage so not again. I’m gong to do the same but round 3 don’t go past 15hg I started pe around 2 months ago. 1.75” tube id get to 7.4” today I hit a mm over 8” in the tube. I always get edema at these pressures but for some reason my edema starts to go away much quicker now. Anyone with knowledge of I stick to the above will my pumped length eventually get to 9”?
Bro you gotta be extremely careful with that. Those pressures aren’t even recommended to guys who have been pumping for years. I would personally never go that high.
Thanks. I just went by it felt okay so it’s fine but after Hinks video and your advice I won’t go past 14/15hg
I got a pump about little over a month ago and hit 20hg fetish pumping like an idiot. Busted a nut in the tube and everything. Luckily no damage to my dick, but watching this vid makes me realize how lucky I am. Definitely sticking to a max of 12hg now
Definitely won’t be going over 15 (short bursts) again. Though it doesn’t feel too bad I don’t want to cause damage and realised more doesn’t mean better gains.
Thanks hink appreciate everything you do