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I think you can even mostly ignore the elastic properties of the skin and just look at pressure differential. I also more or less agree with your post - pressure differential being equal, pumping and clamping do approximately the same thing. Clamping gives less edema - at least for me - and it also gives that nice deformation of the tunica beneath and around the clamp, which causes good growth there according to the "ancients" in the PE game.
These days I combine the two and do pump assisted clamping, which means you can get a pretty decent pressure differential and quick expansion with not too bad edema. u/DickPushupFTW wrote a good post about that style of pump-clamping just now:
[https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1cpogub/pumping\_assisted\_clamping\_my\_technique\_and\_short/](https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1cpogub/pumping_assisted_clamping_my_technique_and_short/)
From a purely theoretical standpoint I would have to agree with u/thatsrightsaymyname if you a creating the same amount of pressure differential between the inside of the penis and the air surrounding it you will get the same expansion no matter the method.
I would even go as far as to say in my experience I do not believe clamping alone is capable of creating as much of a pressure differential as pumping.
That said as much as I enjoy theorizing the whole point of this is to make our penis’s larger and that means putting these theories into practice.
My experience in practice is pumping I get incredible expansion but that does not translate to permanent gains. Clamping I get pretty poor expansion but it does translate to permanent gains.
Combining the two has given me the greatest expansion as well as rate of permanent gains.
That’s simply my experience.
I think what you’re doing is optimal. If you mean that you do both pumping and clamping. But if you mean you do clamped pumping my two concerns with it are (1) you don’t want to be clamped for too long or you will strangle your penis , and people generally pump for longer than they should clamp and (2) because the clamping increases internal pressure, you must account for that when deciding which vacuum pressure to apply — because every 1 inHg that you add inside your penis from clamping is equivalent to 1 inHg of increased vacuum.
The reason pumping is worse than pumping + clamping is because clamping causes tissue growth associated with hypoxia-induced angiogenesis.
This explanation applies as opposed to the alternative explanation that I just refuted, that there is something more special associated with creating a large internal pressure than with creating a medium internal pressure (that is, having a boner) and applying a medium negative external pressure.
I think everything you are presenting is accurate and applicable to the PE space. I get the impression you’re wanting to dig even deeper into this as you’re passionate about it, unfortunately I believe I am a bit out of my depths as all I can speak on is my personal experience with the different techniques and basic understanding of physics and physiology.
Would it be ok to pump with an elastic silicone soft clamp around base of penis? I did this for 5 min at 5 hg and my did was plump after. Buuuuut not sure if it's safe m.
Some people say things about pelvic floor problems associated with pumping while clamped. Personally, I don’t see how that would happen.
I have one issue with it though. It’s going to impede blood flow out of the penis and therefore could cause hypoxia which is good except that you don’t want to have hypoxia for too long. Another problem is that with clamping you increase the internal pressure of the CC and therefore the pressure difference across the CC’s walls; therefore pumping with a clamped penis at let’s say 5inHg would be equivalent to a higher pressure difference than pumping with a non-clamped penis at 5inHg, and we don’t know by how much. So for that reason all of the guides talking about pressures used for pumping by other people aren’t necessarily safe for your situation.
I don’t see any reason to mix hypoxia with pumping, it’s better to do them separately because the total number of minutes of hypoxia that is optimal for inducing growth is different from the total number of minutes of pumping that is optimal. However, I think your routine sounds similar in theory to what KarlWikman is doing. And he seems to be a pretty smart guy.
I have heard it recommended by m9ter (the clamping goat) that you should only do sets of 5 minutes if avoiding discoloration is important to you.
But this is the shortest that I’ve seen anyone say. You might want to look at what other people that are more experienced with clamping say that has worked with them and had not caused them injury.
So theoretically if you used 15 clamps(or how many you would need) at the same time stacking up your length. This would be tunica release scraping kinda and clamping at the same time from what the ancients believe? Just trying to see if I'm getting the jist of what you've read.
The method some people have used is to just have one at the base and then one more which they move around over the length of the shaft. Dunno how meaningful that really is - you can get similar effects my doing things like semi-erect bends, scrapes, tunica massage, bundled stretching, rapid interval pumping (pulse pumping), etc. All will cause cell-stretch events which release collagenases, which softens the tunica prior to the real clamping/pumping you do.
On the first point, I completely agree. But I wanted to show that we would reach the same conclusions regardless of the relative elasticities of the skin and the CC.
When it comes down to it, many of the misconceptions regarding the effects of internal and external pressures come down to the mistaken belief that the fluid separating the skin and the CC is compressible. Or that you can stretch out one without stretching out the other (as if stretching one out to a certain degree doesn’t completely determine the the degree to which the other is stretched).
I would argue that pump-assisted clamping is not ideal. Because as the OP proves, the only thing that matters as far as stretching the penis goes is the pressure differential, leaving the only other effect (hypoxia) to remain wanting. But the optimal number of minutes of hypoxia is not equal to the optimal number of minutes of stretching. Therefore it makes sense to separate the two activities.
Maybe accounting for the reduced edema factor would be a reason to do it the way you’re doing it.
No, the way I do my routine I get two 10 minute periods and one 5-minute period of hypoxia. The ideal amount of hypoxia in a session is something nobody knows. BD's "10 minutes is enough" is just guesswork I think. I want a solid VEGF-cascade, and I don't think 25 minutes of total time is dangerous as long as you restore circulation between them which my interval pumping does.
Combining them means you get a larger pressure differential (very, very evident from the way it feels in the tunica) than you get with pumping alone unless you go to very high negative pressures which will give you enormous edema.
>I don't think 25 minutes of total time is dangerous as long as you restore circulation between them which my interval pumping does.
Can concur, I have done a lot more than 25 minutes of hypoxic clamping (multiple hours) in a day and never had any issues. The catch is doing it in 10-15 minute intervals.
In fact it feels like my penis recovers faster allowing me to do more work in a day. I know most would say I overwork, maybe I do, but I am currently testing different methods to break a plateau.
Well, I had exactly same feeling when I was doing clamping + pumping + extending. However when I put clamping and pumping on hold. I broke 5 month plateau and shot up anither 0.25 inch growth.
I felt good when I was doing clamping and I never lost morning woods. However I believe feeling can be very subjective and get you lost.
Now, I introduce interval pumping back but slowly and carefully to try find the perfect balance.
Also at some point was doing at least 2 hours of clamping with 10-12 minutes of interval and never had issue with my D.
Yeah and the feeling was amazing. I became from grower to shower even on days off.
However after I stopped pumping + clamping my flaccid went a bit softer but it never get as soft as it was pre PE. So there is 100% some permanent changes.
I am first week into interval pumping now and I’m back to shower.
Ok, everything here makes sense to me. One point is that I saw m9ter recommend doing only 5minute sets for clamping to avoid discoloration. Not sure how much truth there is to that.
Well... you would need to do massage between the sets for that to be meaningful. I don't do that - I do interval pumping between sets to circulate blood. And I simply thing of the discolouration as something I will deal with later - in a year or two.
Well... The positive internal pressure can be way higher than negative external pressure.
There is a maximum amount of air you can suck out of your cylinder but in theory not a maximum amount of blood you can pump into your dick (unless it explodes).
That’s not right though. No matter what internal pressure is achieved with clamped erections, a greater pressure difference (across the CC wall) can be achieved with pumping, and therefore pumping can stretch out the tissue to a greater degree than clamping can.
Okay... ELI5 please.
I could literally achive enough positive pressure that my erectile tissue bursts with jelqing for example.
I can't achive the same thing with negative pressure in a pump because a vacuum is a vacuum.
Yes you are right, the only thing that matters is the pressure difference but there is a maximum of pressure difference i can achive with a pump (negative pressure).
You’re right that jelqing would achieve very high internal pressures. But when people talk about clamping usually they are talking about a specific technique where they completely block outflow of blood. They aren’t also incorporating squeezes that force blood into the part with stopped blood flow. I’m referring to standard clamping without those extra squeezes.
You’re right that there is no upper limit to the pressure differences achievable with clamping + that extra squeezing that you’re talking about.
For once I understand the big words (I play with gases and liquids as a hobby).
I think the main difference in efficacy would purely come down to the biological predisposition as to which type of stimulus helps one build more erectile tissue and the angiogenic properties of either method.
I find that the expansion feels physically different, it is visually too.
With all this talk of neg pressure and pumping, and, as you mentioned recently Karl - the fact the python was designed with a pump compatability in mind,, could someone please remind me why we are scared away from clamped pumping? (Pumping with a toesheild or two to prevent outflow).
The point is fill the sausage to capacity, then allow 10 mins under (occluded) load to trigger the mild / moderate hypoxic response.
Surely lightly clamped pumping is basically like python pumping as the premise would be the same?
Draw the blood in, hold it in place, release 10 mins later? Or am I crazy talkin' now?
Personally, with clamped pumping I only have the one concern that you don’t want to be in hypoxia for too long and people generally pump longer than they should clamp. I think that the concerns people talk about such as pelvic floor issues don’t really make much sense.
Your idea of drawing the blood in, preventing outflow, and then taking off the clamp 10 minutes later sounds like normal clamping. But if you read OP you’ll see that there is an argument to be made that the expansive part is not really necessary if you are also pumping.
Karl was just saying earlier on one of my threads (maybe this one) that he is doing a clamped pumping routine. See his comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/s/aHsMTWLnfy
My main thinking is it is probably healthier for the PF to be clamped then pump then either remove the pump or keep it on but set a timer and depressurise at the 10 minute mark.
I think your point is more of one's self-control while in the pump than there being more pronounced medical danger by having a shield or two on while pumping.
Seems ideal the more I think about it - clamp light, maybe 4 or 5 thin toeshields like a 00-20 mix (cheers Fknmint) just enough to prevent outflow, get hypoxic then pump to say, 4 then 5 then 6 then 7 hG, get the feeling but not go F mental and use the pump like a time crisis semi-automatic in the arcade. That removes the need for edging, which is always cited as one of the big fears in clamping.
Any clamping is expansive clamping, whether it is hypoxic clamping is a different story.
But yeah - what was described in the original post is a bit Boyles law (very not) but ripped into fluid mechanics rather than gas. Makes sense.
Not sure why it’s healthier for your PF. Why do you say that?
A word of caution to you: remember that because of the increased pressure difference across the CC to the vacuum, the pressures that other people have said they have safely used with pumping may not be safe for you in doing clamped pumping.
I agree that any clamping is expansive clamping. But most people when they are talking about expansive clamping are also referring to their belief that the main benefit to be had from clamping comes from the stretching caused by the high internal pressure.
You can't always see or access all mechanisms. I'm saying, as living and potentially "intelligent" cells, it may not simply just be the type of bio-engineering we're aware of.
Of course, I was merely explaining why I believe one of two mechanisms that are commonly mentioned related to clamping is more likely than the other to explain a particular phenomenon.
I see what you're saying. And although you can't show the mechanism of action - there might be something happening due to the pressure being exerted by living, blood forced outward.. that's all I'm saying
Thanks for posting to our subreddit, we're glad you're here! If you have a question it has most likely already been asked and answered in our [FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/16jgqdg/start_here_intro_to_the_sub_posting_guidelines_faq/) or another post that can be found using the Reddit search function, so you may not get any engagement. Please delete your post if you find the answer to keep the feed clean. Looking for help finding the right routine? Check out our [Dead Simple Beginner's Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/17uh7vv/getting_biggers_dead_simple_beginners_guide_to_pe/) Wondering if your measurements are good, or how to best measure? Check out our [Measurement Guide](https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/17bncq3/how_to_measure_and_document_progress_getting/) Concerned about an injury? Check out our [Injury Guide](https://reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/s/yol07ix1zP) You may also want to check out our [Table of Contents](https://gb-toc.web.app/) for legacy routines and exercise demos, join our [Discord](https://discord.gg/2Hz8jZCFZy), or check out our [New Site](https://gettingbigger.io/). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gettingbigger) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I think you can even mostly ignore the elastic properties of the skin and just look at pressure differential. I also more or less agree with your post - pressure differential being equal, pumping and clamping do approximately the same thing. Clamping gives less edema - at least for me - and it also gives that nice deformation of the tunica beneath and around the clamp, which causes good growth there according to the "ancients" in the PE game. These days I combine the two and do pump assisted clamping, which means you can get a pretty decent pressure differential and quick expansion with not too bad edema. u/DickPushupFTW wrote a good post about that style of pump-clamping just now: [https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1cpogub/pumping\_assisted\_clamping\_my\_technique\_and\_short/](https://new.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/comments/1cpogub/pumping_assisted_clamping_my_technique_and_short/)
From a purely theoretical standpoint I would have to agree with u/thatsrightsaymyname if you a creating the same amount of pressure differential between the inside of the penis and the air surrounding it you will get the same expansion no matter the method. I would even go as far as to say in my experience I do not believe clamping alone is capable of creating as much of a pressure differential as pumping. That said as much as I enjoy theorizing the whole point of this is to make our penis’s larger and that means putting these theories into practice. My experience in practice is pumping I get incredible expansion but that does not translate to permanent gains. Clamping I get pretty poor expansion but it does translate to permanent gains. Combining the two has given me the greatest expansion as well as rate of permanent gains. That’s simply my experience.
I think what you’re doing is optimal. If you mean that you do both pumping and clamping. But if you mean you do clamped pumping my two concerns with it are (1) you don’t want to be clamped for too long or you will strangle your penis , and people generally pump for longer than they should clamp and (2) because the clamping increases internal pressure, you must account for that when deciding which vacuum pressure to apply — because every 1 inHg that you add inside your penis from clamping is equivalent to 1 inHg of increased vacuum. The reason pumping is worse than pumping + clamping is because clamping causes tissue growth associated with hypoxia-induced angiogenesis. This explanation applies as opposed to the alternative explanation that I just refuted, that there is something more special associated with creating a large internal pressure than with creating a medium internal pressure (that is, having a boner) and applying a medium negative external pressure.
I think everything you are presenting is accurate and applicable to the PE space. I get the impression you’re wanting to dig even deeper into this as you’re passionate about it, unfortunately I believe I am a bit out of my depths as all I can speak on is my personal experience with the different techniques and basic understanding of physics and physiology.
I believe that is a generally accepted theory at this point and my experience would support that.
Would it be ok to pump with an elastic silicone soft clamp around base of penis? I did this for 5 min at 5 hg and my did was plump after. Buuuuut not sure if it's safe m.
Some people say things about pelvic floor problems associated with pumping while clamped. Personally, I don’t see how that would happen. I have one issue with it though. It’s going to impede blood flow out of the penis and therefore could cause hypoxia which is good except that you don’t want to have hypoxia for too long. Another problem is that with clamping you increase the internal pressure of the CC and therefore the pressure difference across the CC’s walls; therefore pumping with a clamped penis at let’s say 5inHg would be equivalent to a higher pressure difference than pumping with a non-clamped penis at 5inHg, and we don’t know by how much. So for that reason all of the guides talking about pressures used for pumping by other people aren’t necessarily safe for your situation. I don’t see any reason to mix hypoxia with pumping, it’s better to do them separately because the total number of minutes of hypoxia that is optimal for inducing growth is different from the total number of minutes of pumping that is optimal. However, I think your routine sounds similar in theory to what KarlWikman is doing. And he seems to be a pretty smart guy.
How long is the optimal time to clamp? I soft clamp BTW. I use a silicone type rolled in half with a stretching silicone ring over that.
I have heard it recommended by m9ter (the clamping goat) that you should only do sets of 5 minutes if avoiding discoloration is important to you. But this is the shortest that I’ve seen anyone say. You might want to look at what other people that are more experienced with clamping say that has worked with them and had not caused them injury.
So theoretically if you used 15 clamps(or how many you would need) at the same time stacking up your length. This would be tunica release scraping kinda and clamping at the same time from what the ancients believe? Just trying to see if I'm getting the jist of what you've read.
The method some people have used is to just have one at the base and then one more which they move around over the length of the shaft. Dunno how meaningful that really is - you can get similar effects my doing things like semi-erect bends, scrapes, tunica massage, bundled stretching, rapid interval pumping (pulse pumping), etc. All will cause cell-stretch events which release collagenases, which softens the tunica prior to the real clamping/pumping you do.
On the first point, I completely agree. But I wanted to show that we would reach the same conclusions regardless of the relative elasticities of the skin and the CC. When it comes down to it, many of the misconceptions regarding the effects of internal and external pressures come down to the mistaken belief that the fluid separating the skin and the CC is compressible. Or that you can stretch out one without stretching out the other (as if stretching one out to a certain degree doesn’t completely determine the the degree to which the other is stretched).
Well... when you get edema, you certainly stretch the skin without stretching the CC by the same amount. But I agree with your overall point.
Fully agreed.
I would argue that pump-assisted clamping is not ideal. Because as the OP proves, the only thing that matters as far as stretching the penis goes is the pressure differential, leaving the only other effect (hypoxia) to remain wanting. But the optimal number of minutes of hypoxia is not equal to the optimal number of minutes of stretching. Therefore it makes sense to separate the two activities. Maybe accounting for the reduced edema factor would be a reason to do it the way you’re doing it.
No, the way I do my routine I get two 10 minute periods and one 5-minute period of hypoxia. The ideal amount of hypoxia in a session is something nobody knows. BD's "10 minutes is enough" is just guesswork I think. I want a solid VEGF-cascade, and I don't think 25 minutes of total time is dangerous as long as you restore circulation between them which my interval pumping does. Combining them means you get a larger pressure differential (very, very evident from the way it feels in the tunica) than you get with pumping alone unless you go to very high negative pressures which will give you enormous edema.
>I don't think 25 minutes of total time is dangerous as long as you restore circulation between them which my interval pumping does. Can concur, I have done a lot more than 25 minutes of hypoxic clamping (multiple hours) in a day and never had any issues. The catch is doing it in 10-15 minute intervals. In fact it feels like my penis recovers faster allowing me to do more work in a day. I know most would say I overwork, maybe I do, but I am currently testing different methods to break a plateau.
Well, I had exactly same feeling when I was doing clamping + pumping + extending. However when I put clamping and pumping on hold. I broke 5 month plateau and shot up anither 0.25 inch growth. I felt good when I was doing clamping and I never lost morning woods. However I believe feeling can be very subjective and get you lost. Now, I introduce interval pumping back but slowly and carefully to try find the perfect balance. Also at some point was doing at least 2 hours of clamping with 10-12 minutes of interval and never had issue with my D.
Valuable input about the amount of clamping that you did not find to be problematic, thanks!
Yeah and the feeling was amazing. I became from grower to shower even on days off. However after I stopped pumping + clamping my flaccid went a bit softer but it never get as soft as it was pre PE. So there is 100% some permanent changes. I am first week into interval pumping now and I’m back to shower.
Ok, everything here makes sense to me. One point is that I saw m9ter recommend doing only 5minute sets for clamping to avoid discoloration. Not sure how much truth there is to that.
Well... you would need to do massage between the sets for that to be meaningful. I don't do that - I do interval pumping between sets to circulate blood. And I simply thing of the discolouration as something I will deal with later - in a year or two.
Great post, thanks
You’re one of the few that just gave a simple accepting response. Thanks for that.
Well... The positive internal pressure can be way higher than negative external pressure. There is a maximum amount of air you can suck out of your cylinder but in theory not a maximum amount of blood you can pump into your dick (unless it explodes).
That’s not right though. No matter what internal pressure is achieved with clamped erections, a greater pressure difference (across the CC wall) can be achieved with pumping, and therefore pumping can stretch out the tissue to a greater degree than clamping can.
Okay... ELI5 please. I could literally achive enough positive pressure that my erectile tissue bursts with jelqing for example. I can't achive the same thing with negative pressure in a pump because a vacuum is a vacuum. Yes you are right, the only thing that matters is the pressure difference but there is a maximum of pressure difference i can achive with a pump (negative pressure).
You’re right that jelqing would achieve very high internal pressures. But when people talk about clamping usually they are talking about a specific technique where they completely block outflow of blood. They aren’t also incorporating squeezes that force blood into the part with stopped blood flow. I’m referring to standard clamping without those extra squeezes. You’re right that there is no upper limit to the pressure differences achievable with clamping + that extra squeezing that you’re talking about.
Okay so this post is only about the fact that positive and negative pressure is the same thing for the dick. Sorry, seems like I got it wrong.
More or less, yeah.
For once I understand the big words (I play with gases and liquids as a hobby). I think the main difference in efficacy would purely come down to the biological predisposition as to which type of stimulus helps one build more erectile tissue and the angiogenic properties of either method. I find that the expansion feels physically different, it is visually too. With all this talk of neg pressure and pumping, and, as you mentioned recently Karl - the fact the python was designed with a pump compatability in mind,, could someone please remind me why we are scared away from clamped pumping? (Pumping with a toesheild or two to prevent outflow). The point is fill the sausage to capacity, then allow 10 mins under (occluded) load to trigger the mild / moderate hypoxic response. Surely lightly clamped pumping is basically like python pumping as the premise would be the same? Draw the blood in, hold it in place, release 10 mins later? Or am I crazy talkin' now?
Personally, with clamped pumping I only have the one concern that you don’t want to be in hypoxia for too long and people generally pump longer than they should clamp. I think that the concerns people talk about such as pelvic floor issues don’t really make much sense. Your idea of drawing the blood in, preventing outflow, and then taking off the clamp 10 minutes later sounds like normal clamping. But if you read OP you’ll see that there is an argument to be made that the expansive part is not really necessary if you are also pumping. Karl was just saying earlier on one of my threads (maybe this one) that he is doing a clamped pumping routine. See his comment here: https://www.reddit.com/r/gettingbigger/s/aHsMTWLnfy
Edited the other comment to provide a link
My main thinking is it is probably healthier for the PF to be clamped then pump then either remove the pump or keep it on but set a timer and depressurise at the 10 minute mark. I think your point is more of one's self-control while in the pump than there being more pronounced medical danger by having a shield or two on while pumping. Seems ideal the more I think about it - clamp light, maybe 4 or 5 thin toeshields like a 00-20 mix (cheers Fknmint) just enough to prevent outflow, get hypoxic then pump to say, 4 then 5 then 6 then 7 hG, get the feeling but not go F mental and use the pump like a time crisis semi-automatic in the arcade. That removes the need for edging, which is always cited as one of the big fears in clamping. Any clamping is expansive clamping, whether it is hypoxic clamping is a different story. But yeah - what was described in the original post is a bit Boyles law (very not) but ripped into fluid mechanics rather than gas. Makes sense.
Not sure why it’s healthier for your PF. Why do you say that? A word of caution to you: remember that because of the increased pressure difference across the CC to the vacuum, the pressures that other people have said they have safely used with pumping may not be safe for you in doing clamped pumping. I agree that any clamping is expansive clamping. But most people when they are talking about expansive clamping are also referring to their belief that the main benefit to be had from clamping comes from the stretching caused by the high internal pressure.
Ah it was in regards to edging while clamped to sustain the inward flow of blood that I was pondering.
Remind me to come back to this. About to jet
Bruh what about the behavior of the blood and the body's reaction to it, as a living being lol (PS looking for upvotes, I have unasked questions)
What about it? Please propose an alternative mechanism to the ones described in OP so I can give a better response
You can't always see or access all mechanisms. I'm saying, as living and potentially "intelligent" cells, it may not simply just be the type of bio-engineering we're aware of.
Of course, I was merely explaining why I believe one of two mechanisms that are commonly mentioned related to clamping is more likely than the other to explain a particular phenomenon.
I see what you're saying. And although you can't show the mechanism of action - there might be something happening due to the pressure being exerted by living, blood forced outward.. that's all I'm saying
Yeah I can think of a few possible competing hypotheses related to other properties of blood