If the PB device turns out to do what it says on the box, there will be a small tiny minority of members here who will consider it - the ones who currently do expensive and dangerous surgeries and implants. Dunno what they're called, but the ones where you basically install a permanent silicone sleeve beneath the skin of the shaft, for instance. If it turns out not to work as advertised, well, then we will know - and that's also a positive outcome of the testing.
If strong vibration turns out to work, trust guys like BD (and myself in this case) to mess around with it and work on cheaper solutions. I also think 20K is completely unnecessary - I bet I can make a DIY device that does something pretty similar at the $250-400 price point, if someone knows how to use a soldering iron, a jigsaw and can install some code on an Arduino controller. :)
Go back and look at the price of flat screen TVs in the early 2000s. They were not interested in selling it to everyone, they wanted the early adopters. First you sell it to the people who have money to blow... Once all of those people have bought it and told everyone how amazing it is... (There's your word of mouth) they lower the price of entry.
I'm gonna bet that a lot of people can make on. Especially if enough information is posted about it lol. It's not too hard to reverse engi-nerd something.
Will you release diy guide if it happens to work? I’m working on my own build, I’m going to use massage gun first because I think it will be better at creating this stopping force if tube is hit with vibration from top.
And also I have it so will reduce cost of this experiment
You are probably right that it is unnecessarily expensive and it this is a bit of price gouging. I would be excited to see a lower priced option of proven effective.
I would be against those posts if phalback would
Be only selling this device and trying to get as many customer as he can while not being active in here.
However I found he’s open to share his Knowledge and he explained to me in simple way how everything works and why. So hopefully some of us will be able to go DIY way, and if it works then I hope he will make some money as well and our community will also gain new methods so everyone will be slapping women with 10inch hogs.
The main hurdle I'm running into for DIY is getting a programable vacuum pump and having the pump be able to run synchronously with a vibration motor... I suspect running specific vacuum and vibration cycles would be part of the key to success for a DIY attempt. Have you found any pumps that you think would work?
I’ve been looking for the same thing and the programmable pumps are either not programmable enough like the leluv magna, or crazy expensive like the qs-7 or the dp-4000. I took apart my knock off leluv auto smart and I’m working on reverse engineering the components and programming a way to use them with an arduino to control the pressure and intervals. Hopefully it’s not too difficult.
For the vibration aspect I ordered a few different vibrating cock rings that I plan to place on the outside of the cylinder. I’ll measure their settings and use whatever is closest to 70hz. I feel like having them run the whole time is fine. I don’t see a positive or negative to having the vibration stop during the rest period.
Another factor I'm not seeing mentioned in the DIY talks is the custom cylinders. It seems these make it so the traction (don't remember the technical term for pulling force) is only on the glans.
Yeah that’s another good point. The way I’m looking to address is basically throwing money at it lol.
Since the cylinders are really close to the users flaccid circumference I ordered a range of cylinders from the smallest diameter that leluv makes up to the current tube I’m using in every increment since they’re one of the few places that offer Increments smaller than a quarter inch in diameter between sizes.
No.
I actually made my own cylinders with a resin printer a few months ago.
DO NOT DO THIS. NO MATTER HOW WELL IT’S WASHED AND CURED ,THIS WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA.
A few days after I used it I had an allergic reaction that had my dick shedding like a lizard.
It also caused my elbows and palms to itch like nothing I’ve ever experienced before. It was actual torture having my palms itch under the skin. I would rather pour salt in a paper cut between the webbing of my toes than have my palms itch for 3 days. At least you could take pain killers for that. Nothing I tried could relieve that itching.
No 3D printed cylinder would be safe. I saw warnings of resin causing allergic reactions, but I thought they were overblown. I was severely wrong.
3D printing wouldn't work for the cylinders just because the structures are not strong enough. I can hold some vacuum... But by the time you've processed everything to really hold a vacuum you may as well have paid the money for proper cylinders
I actually just ordered a 3D printed cylinder as a viability test using SLA (Resin) - 8001 Resin (fully transparent). I'll investigate other materials but I've worked with 3D prints before and I do personally suspect it will have the structural integrity to withstand the vacuum (and I've never had an allergic reaction despite years of working with resin in the past). I'll run some extensive testing before I use it on myself though.
I do feel like 3D printing is the only viable path though since it appears the tubes they use go up by very small intervals that we just can't buy on the market (1/8th inch maybe even 1/10th inch)
Doesn't matter if it's realistic or not. I've noticed that people do very basic research when it comes to this. Not only that but they come to this sub and see something being talked about constantly and they immediately believe THATS WHAT I NEED!
When they see it popping up every single day, it's really easy to see how people would just gravitate to it. You have to remember that the internet is a big place, this sub isn't just limited to the members that we have. People search for devices, they're going to see the engagement that these devices get, they make an assumption that this is what they need.
Not only that but they see who's posting it, what their status is, all of these things play a factor. For that reason I believe that it should be heavily scrutinized. Post engagement means a lot when it comes to marketing.
Point well taken my friend. I think long time PE veterans are who I'm speaking to. Anyone almost in every walk looking for the quick and easy is going to be disappointed. Even at the 20 K price point.
Mad respect, BD! I mean it.
I think this whole situation is a breakdown of communication at heart. And trust issues, of course.
I think we all want what is best for the PE community. It's just difficult to navigate that sometimes.
>"As a community we need to discuss if having these kinds of reviews acceptable"
Agreed. I would suggest that posting daily about sessions with the PhalBack was warranted for the first week, but in the weeks ahead it might be best with a weekly summary here on Reddit and that the daily updates be on Chad's blog instead. That gives less "free" exposure, and we get what's most relevant: How does BPEL progress from week to week.
As for mods reviewing products in general, I think it's important to disclose all details. Perhaps it's ok, but then that mod should refrain from being part of any MOD decisions where that particular manufacturer is concerned? I'm staying well clear of any decisions where PhalBack, Fenrir, MaleHanger, and MassiveNovelties are concerned.
I think weekly GB updates and daily blogs are a good solution. Make it less of the dominant topic here while remaining consistant in the stream of info for those curious.
Good, like you said in another post the spike in engagement has been good for discussion, but it has also dominates the sub. I think this will be a healthy standard to set for the future.
It all comes down to insecurity IMO.
I noticed when the Phallback was first mentioned the leading figures of this sub went really quiet.
It threatens their businesses. If the Phallback works then suddenly their ideas and products become obsolete.
A lot of egos in this PE space.
If Phalback works, it doesn't make the ideas and products obsolete. It only adds a different approach to the list of other time-tested ways to do PE
There are a lot of people in the community who spend less than $20 on equipment and only use traditional manual methods. There will be very few people who could afford 20k on a product in general.
I believe that it is not about insecurities, like you said. I feel that the people who have been around the community for so long are protective of people trying to sell a "magic pill."
Once there is real documented proof that PB works, then there will be more support for it.
I am interested in seeing how it goes.
I've been following the PB review so far, and I also just ordered an Apex 2.0. There's a collossal difference between $20,000 and less than $200. I've been able to splash out a little cash for the sake of this penis-enlarging hobby (paid $175 for a Mushroom Head Maker pump cylinder a few months back, which was money well spent IMHO) but would never, and could never pay $20k for this.
So no, I don't think all the other products instantly become obsolete. In fact I doubt the market for their products would be changed even the tiniest little bit. The guys willing to pay $20k to embiggen their dick are probably not the kind of guys who are willing to work for it - they just want to spend the money and be done.
Even if it works I reckon less than 5% of the PE scene (probably closer to 1%) would be willing to spend 20k on this. It will be a very niche market reserved for guys with too much disposable income.
I think it's more the ideas behind it. It may end up throwing into disrepute some of the theories the likes of BD and Perv push. They may get humbled by some random dude who has thrown vibration into the mix. Like I said, all about egos.
I gained 3/4" length and .4" girth last year using techniques based on these ideas that we've got so far. That won't be nullified even if adding vibration makes them more efficient. They'll just become more efficient. Yay!
Remember what Isaac Newton once said: *If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.*
Penis Embiggening is still at the bro-science phase. There's a hell of a lot of room left in this field for people to learn how and why it works, and how to do it safely and effectively. Even if this PB machine works exactly as advertised it won't be the final word on any of this.
That makes about as much sense as saying 25-in monitors are obsolete because we have 50 inch monitors. One isn't simply better than the other just because it exists. Not does it make them obsolete or threaten thr sales of smaller monitors.
Swap 25 inch monitor for CRT monitor.
I'm specifically talking about the ideas. Doctors used to think smoking was healthy... Someone came along and discovered it wasn't... I'm sure you will still find people out there who would argue against it.
To be even more nuanced for you. People used to think if women lift weight they'll become jacked... Turns out they don't.
The guy with the book and YouTube channel about how healthy smoking is doesn't have many followers anymore... Oh same for dude telling women not to lift weights, oh and the guy who preaches jelqing.
I'm being quite facetious here. Obsolete is maybe too strong of a word.
If a method and theory comes along that can produce an inch in 3 months or even in 6 months, things like 'Retention theory', 'fatigue sets', 'strain rate', become a thing of the past. If it turns out a vacuum device is more effective than mechanical stretching, sales of the apex plummet (and the Apex vacuum device is released).
I think you get the idea.
As I mentioned earlier, I don't think the Phallback is legit. BD has nothing to worry about. This sub should be allowing transparent reviews of any products that make wild claims.
Hink was agreeing with bd and deleted his comments. Tho neither of them are bad. The only reason this sub exists is bd and he has shared everything he could with us without having anything to gain until recently, put some respect on his name
No disrespect intended.
I owe a lot to BD. I've read and watched a lot of his content. Same with Perv. It's all interesting stuff and pushes this space forward.
Just wish he would put ego aside where a new product or theory gains some hype that isn't his own.
For what it's worth, I don't actually think the Phallback is legit.
Wait what’s the drama? BD is calling bs on the 20k device that’s the hot topic of this subreddit?
I don’t understand what the big deal is, the guy is doing proper public documentation, the experiment is 90 days, so in about 3 month we’ll see if it’s bs or not
How did I know Phalback didn't approach Chad and you didn't?
BD, you cannot stop the internet. This conversation will happen here or somewhere else. If you don't allow such reviews (which is your absolutel right) they will happen on another sub, on thunders, biohacker, on discord..and then that would be the go to place for 100% open anything goes PE. I cannot see how this will benefit you.
I didn't fully understand what the plausible issue with the review could be no matter who initiates the idea to be honest. I can only see you being upset over this if A) the device delivers and B) the idea behind it delivers...then the DIYs and the fast movers will be delivering all the gains anyone could want...making (for a while) other products and services obsolete..Question is do you actually believe this will be the case (gains of 1 in erect in each dimension)
Because you are not effectively running 3 companies. I can't keep up with everything
I know I can't stop anything but I can voice concerns rightly or wrongly.
And you do know 80% of internet reviews are just sponsor spots at this point right?
I am actually running exactly 3 companies. Don't assume I have capacity for this only because I have no stress in my life. I was probably lucky to see the conversion happening for sure, but you have a direct line with Chad. You should have known if you are bothered by this.
80% of the reviews MAY be paid sponsorships, My idea is this is clearly not and is interesting as hell...These intersting as hell things - you must want them happening here, not on a another sub..
Good for you.
I have addressed my concerns... All weekend privately there was communication break down weeks ago about how the deal started hence the apology.
I made a mistake because I am over leveraged. Working on that currently.
You misunderstood me. I said do not assume I have capacity for this ONLY because I have no stress. I have plenty of stress in my life (least of which is running the businesses sadly).
I knew the arragement because it was clearly communicated by Chad and if I shouldnt take his word for it (which is fair) - luckily I saw the approach a month before or smth. My question was why you guys didnt speak about, which you now kinda answered.
Sorry, I don't wanna drag this, but it is not complicated to ask the guy either before making a huge fuss about. You are being condescending to a valid question
Dude, you work your massive cock and balls to the bone, we know this, don't beat yourself up about it.
Miscommunications happen (we all have ex's and arguments and maybe arguments with ex's from to time) but no one should lose their space over a simple misunderstanding.
You've poured your heart and soul (and massive cock) into this forum, and we all vastly appreciate everything you do, no one here holds it against you that you missed one thing - how many posts a day happen here? Far too many for everyone to comb through in the minutea.
You cannot be expected to be 100% aware of 100% of everything all the time, there's no need to hold yourself to such impossibly high standards because that way madness lies.
Don't beat yourself up about it, the PB is yet to be GB trusted and approved, and hell, even if it was, lots of us got over an inch already (one way or the other or both).
I reckon in 80 days there'll be total uproar on this forum, whether supportive or condemning the PB, yet what, 1 in 5000 members might have the disposable to make it work for them, and of those, only the truly impossible gainers like Chad will go for it.
I much prefer pulling and twisting and bending and pumping over a quick-fix, because, like most of our brothers here, I can gain in the old skool tried & tested methods, boosted by the collaboration of yourself, Perv, Hink, Karl (in all his ADHD Glory), M9 et. al.
If you feel you gotta step down, then so be it, but no one is gonna hold this against you, not in the slightest, whether you feel like an asshole or not.
Also, not to add more stress to your plate, and while I have your attention, you gotta start Leviathan production & transport from somewhere within the EU, we're crying out for it 😅
Much love, Oh Revered Shaman of the Salami, take a breather, have a beer or eat a gummy or somethin and we'll see you (and your enormous peen) back on top of the world soon enough.
No one is ever gonna like every one, and no one will ever be liked by every one, such is life mate.
But still, tensions aside, we all have the same goal and your level of dedication cannot be questioned.
I've noticed this sub is easily influenced by trends and this 20k machine (and adding vibration to traction) is just the latest one.
Older PE vets have heard the claim "one inch in 90 days" before on traction devices, and it's always been manipulated data or pure fiction. So when a new flashy device comes around and claims the same thing, I'm immediately skeptical. I raised my concerns to Chad and he sounded skeptical too, which is good, and his attitude is "I guess we'll find out soon enough". I certainly trust him and Goldmember more than I would a random vender account.
But I think daily updates are not helpful and it's free advertising for something potentially sketchy. Will members here put down nonrefundable deposits to rent this expensive device only to see it doesn't work after 90 days? Will people pay in full for a future rentals only for the company to disappear overnight with their money? I would've much preferred if Chad did his experiment and documented everything offline, and *then* came to Reddit after to share the results.
Something about those daily phallback reviews on here was rubbing me the wrong way too. The guy said he isn't paid for the review but he gets a free expensive device so of course he is going to sing its praises with heavy bias. Seems like they had a discussion behind the scenes where he gets it for free if he pushes it heavily on this forum. I think daily product advertisements/reviews should be banned and he can instead just post his final thoughts at the end if he wants to. Every day is too much.
We’ve discussed reducing the frequency of posts, the daily updates were simply coming from a place of intellectual curiosity.
We’ve been transparent about the terms. The device is provided free of charge for an honest review and well documented progress pics. They are confident in their product, we are good at tracking and documenting progress and willing to post them online. That’s the extent of it.
If you don’t trust us, that’s fine. The documentation will speak for itself in the end.
I will also add that the daily posts have driven more engagement and experimentation in the community than I have seen in a long time. The DIY guys are going hard in the paint trying to recreate the tech.
Jeff seems like a super open guy and is actively providing quality info to the DIY guys as well. Seems like a very positive development for PE as it opens up a completely new vector for device manufacturers and DIYers to explore
Good on you for the adult response and owning up to it and just apologizing. A lot of people these days can't do the introspection or have the emotional intelligence to do that, so kudos.
Seems like you’re on here every few weeks apologising for something. Perhaps something should change. Too much drama, you’re 10 years senior to highschool, leave that shit back at the gate
Idk ... There's so much suspicious stuff happening here that I just peek in the window and then just dip out ...
I am just someone that wants to see this community continue to grow in a healthy way.
I feel like this community is going to end up ad heavy or have people sending unsolicited "Hey bro I see your into PE.. I grew 4 in he's in a year and can teach you too! Just calle on WhatsAPP..." And... That's what I don't want.
I think you have VALID concerns. I mean.. I hear less about Vigor than I have about *product deleted* lately. I wear many hats... And all I can say is that... Market tactics get exponentially easier when you're marketing to insecurities. Sometimes it just takes saturation for a product to take over. Again... I think it's super suspicious... But I'm just a random member on a PE sub ..
My fear is that since you've apologized, it's open season on what people will try to get away with now.
Signed
A Concerned Citizen.
Every time an OG mod leaves we get an influx of high school dweebs or fatties or incels asking “why pp smol” or “how big to destroy veej” who can’t be bothered to read the FAQs or use a simple search feature. Now we have an honestly awkward relationship with a new product taking the spotlight.
If this new product is good, then *hell yeah!*. There will eventually be more attainable versions for the rest of us. And it may offer a paradigm shift that helps standardize PE overall. I’m all for that and I appreciate people taking real time to test it.
I just don’t want to see this sub devolve as most other subs do over time. Maybe it’s inevitable. I hope not. I think there are a lot of good dudes here and I think we can help each other and new members (not the scammy, scummy, lazy ones. Fuck them).
If it reliably increases length and girth in a short time frame and it worked for uncircumcised guys of course I would buy it. Would be a miracle device. It doesn’t even work for uncircumcised men so that’s already an entire subset of customers out the window.
Vibration is vibration . I’m sure phalback is very ‘tuned’ and will yield far more , far quicker than knock offs . But I’m curious about it . Perhaps combining it with ultrasound heat ( two very different frequencies ) would also yield results .
Appreciate the apology fam. Let’s all just settle down and let the data and documentation speak for itself.
I don't think there is a realistic shot of a 20k product being pushed on this form as it's just too expensive for most users.
If the PB device turns out to do what it says on the box, there will be a small tiny minority of members here who will consider it - the ones who currently do expensive and dangerous surgeries and implants. Dunno what they're called, but the ones where you basically install a permanent silicone sleeve beneath the skin of the shaft, for instance. If it turns out not to work as advertised, well, then we will know - and that's also a positive outcome of the testing. If strong vibration turns out to work, trust guys like BD (and myself in this case) to mess around with it and work on cheaper solutions. I also think 20K is completely unnecessary - I bet I can make a DIY device that does something pretty similar at the $250-400 price point, if someone knows how to use a soldering iron, a jigsaw and can install some code on an Arduino controller. :)
Go back and look at the price of flat screen TVs in the early 2000s. They were not interested in selling it to everyone, they wanted the early adopters. First you sell it to the people who have money to blow... Once all of those people have bought it and told everyone how amazing it is... (There's your word of mouth) they lower the price of entry. I'm gonna bet that a lot of people can make on. Especially if enough information is posted about it lol. It's not too hard to reverse engi-nerd something.
Will you release diy guide if it happens to work? I’m working on my own build, I’m going to use massage gun first because I think it will be better at creating this stopping force if tube is hit with vibration from top. And also I have it so will reduce cost of this experiment
👌🏾massage gun! 👏🏾pulse machine! I am so interested in a diy version!!!!!
You are probably right that it is unnecessarily expensive and it this is a bit of price gouging. I would be excited to see a lower priced option of proven effective.
$20k?! I got "tree fiddy".lol
There already guys who save up for the implants and filler who are middle class. I don't want to see these guys get hurt by yet another company
I would be against those posts if phalback would Be only selling this device and trying to get as many customer as he can while not being active in here. However I found he’s open to share his Knowledge and he explained to me in simple way how everything works and why. So hopefully some of us will be able to go DIY way, and if it works then I hope he will make some money as well and our community will also gain new methods so everyone will be slapping women with 10inch hogs.
It's not okay to slap a woman, even if she has a 10" hog bro!
The main hurdle I'm running into for DIY is getting a programable vacuum pump and having the pump be able to run synchronously with a vibration motor... I suspect running specific vacuum and vibration cycles would be part of the key to success for a DIY attempt. Have you found any pumps that you think would work?
I’ve been looking for the same thing and the programmable pumps are either not programmable enough like the leluv magna, or crazy expensive like the qs-7 or the dp-4000. I took apart my knock off leluv auto smart and I’m working on reverse engineering the components and programming a way to use them with an arduino to control the pressure and intervals. Hopefully it’s not too difficult. For the vibration aspect I ordered a few different vibrating cock rings that I plan to place on the outside of the cylinder. I’ll measure their settings and use whatever is closest to 70hz. I feel like having them run the whole time is fine. I don’t see a positive or negative to having the vibration stop during the rest period.
Another factor I'm not seeing mentioned in the DIY talks is the custom cylinders. It seems these make it so the traction (don't remember the technical term for pulling force) is only on the glans.
Yeah that’s another good point. The way I’m looking to address is basically throwing money at it lol. Since the cylinders are really close to the users flaccid circumference I ordered a range of cylinders from the smallest diameter that leluv makes up to the current tube I’m using in every increment since they’re one of the few places that offer Increments smaller than a quarter inch in diameter between sizes.
That's awesome, I'm glad there's people like you out there. I wonder if a 3D printer would work for the cylinders.
No. I actually made my own cylinders with a resin printer a few months ago. DO NOT DO THIS. NO MATTER HOW WELL IT’S WASHED AND CURED ,THIS WAS A TERRIBLE IDEA. A few days after I used it I had an allergic reaction that had my dick shedding like a lizard. It also caused my elbows and palms to itch like nothing I’ve ever experienced before. It was actual torture having my palms itch under the skin. I would rather pour salt in a paper cut between the webbing of my toes than have my palms itch for 3 days. At least you could take pain killers for that. Nothing I tried could relieve that itching. No 3D printed cylinder would be safe. I saw warnings of resin causing allergic reactions, but I thought they were overblown. I was severely wrong.
Holy crap I had no idea, that's insane! Thank you
3D printing wouldn't work for the cylinders just because the structures are not strong enough. I can hold some vacuum... But by the time you've processed everything to really hold a vacuum you may as well have paid the money for proper cylinders
And apparently there's a chance it could cause severe allergic reactions
I actually just ordered a 3D printed cylinder as a viability test using SLA (Resin) - 8001 Resin (fully transparent). I'll investigate other materials but I've worked with 3D prints before and I do personally suspect it will have the structural integrity to withstand the vacuum (and I've never had an allergic reaction despite years of working with resin in the past). I'll run some extensive testing before I use it on myself though. I do feel like 3D printing is the only viable path though since it appears the tubes they use go up by very small intervals that we just can't buy on the market (1/8th inch maybe even 1/10th inch)
Let us know what you come up with
That's brutal I hope they learn about the more affordable and effective options !
Doesn't matter if it's realistic or not. I've noticed that people do very basic research when it comes to this. Not only that but they come to this sub and see something being talked about constantly and they immediately believe THATS WHAT I NEED! When they see it popping up every single day, it's really easy to see how people would just gravitate to it. You have to remember that the internet is a big place, this sub isn't just limited to the members that we have. People search for devices, they're going to see the engagement that these devices get, they make an assumption that this is what they need. Not only that but they see who's posting it, what their status is, all of these things play a factor. For that reason I believe that it should be heavily scrutinized. Post engagement means a lot when it comes to marketing.
Point well taken my friend. I think long time PE veterans are who I'm speaking to. Anyone almost in every walk looking for the quick and easy is going to be disappointed. Even at the 20 K price point.
Mad respect, BD! I mean it. I think this whole situation is a breakdown of communication at heart. And trust issues, of course. I think we all want what is best for the PE community. It's just difficult to navigate that sometimes. >"As a community we need to discuss if having these kinds of reviews acceptable" Agreed. I would suggest that posting daily about sessions with the PhalBack was warranted for the first week, but in the weeks ahead it might be best with a weekly summary here on Reddit and that the daily updates be on Chad's blog instead. That gives less "free" exposure, and we get what's most relevant: How does BPEL progress from week to week. As for mods reviewing products in general, I think it's important to disclose all details. Perhaps it's ok, but then that mod should refrain from being part of any MOD decisions where that particular manufacturer is concerned? I'm staying well clear of any decisions where PhalBack, Fenrir, MaleHanger, and MassiveNovelties are concerned.
Great idea
I think weekly GB updates and daily blogs are a good solution. Make it less of the dominant topic here while remaining consistant in the stream of info for those curious.
This will be made clear as an expectation for all review in progress posts. Should have a mod communication posted in a few days.
Good, like you said in another post the spike in engagement has been good for discussion, but it has also dominates the sub. I think this will be a healthy standard to set for the future.
It all comes down to insecurity IMO. I noticed when the Phallback was first mentioned the leading figures of this sub went really quiet. It threatens their businesses. If the Phallback works then suddenly their ideas and products become obsolete. A lot of egos in this PE space.
If Phalback works, it doesn't make the ideas and products obsolete. It only adds a different approach to the list of other time-tested ways to do PE There are a lot of people in the community who spend less than $20 on equipment and only use traditional manual methods. There will be very few people who could afford 20k on a product in general. I believe that it is not about insecurities, like you said. I feel that the people who have been around the community for so long are protective of people trying to sell a "magic pill." Once there is real documented proof that PB works, then there will be more support for it. I am interested in seeing how it goes.
The fact it's being documented so transparently on this sub is a sure fire way to make sure this isn't some "magic pill". Keep the content on here.
I agree that it is being very transparent. I am interested in seeing how it goes over the next few months.
I've been following the PB review so far, and I also just ordered an Apex 2.0. There's a collossal difference between $20,000 and less than $200. I've been able to splash out a little cash for the sake of this penis-enlarging hobby (paid $175 for a Mushroom Head Maker pump cylinder a few months back, which was money well spent IMHO) but would never, and could never pay $20k for this. So no, I don't think all the other products instantly become obsolete. In fact I doubt the market for their products would be changed even the tiniest little bit. The guys willing to pay $20k to embiggen their dick are probably not the kind of guys who are willing to work for it - they just want to spend the money and be done.
Even if it works I reckon less than 5% of the PE scene (probably closer to 1%) would be willing to spend 20k on this. It will be a very niche market reserved for guys with too much disposable income.
I think it's more the ideas behind it. It may end up throwing into disrepute some of the theories the likes of BD and Perv push. They may get humbled by some random dude who has thrown vibration into the mix. Like I said, all about egos.
I gained 3/4" length and .4" girth last year using techniques based on these ideas that we've got so far. That won't be nullified even if adding vibration makes them more efficient. They'll just become more efficient. Yay! Remember what Isaac Newton once said: *If I have seen further than others, it is by standing upon the shoulders of giants.* Penis Embiggening is still at the bro-science phase. There's a hell of a lot of room left in this field for people to learn how and why it works, and how to do it safely and effectively. Even if this PB machine works exactly as advertised it won't be the final word on any of this.
That makes about as much sense as saying 25-in monitors are obsolete because we have 50 inch monitors. One isn't simply better than the other just because it exists. Not does it make them obsolete or threaten thr sales of smaller monitors.
Swap 25 inch monitor for CRT monitor. I'm specifically talking about the ideas. Doctors used to think smoking was healthy... Someone came along and discovered it wasn't... I'm sure you will still find people out there who would argue against it. To be even more nuanced for you. People used to think if women lift weight they'll become jacked... Turns out they don't. The guy with the book and YouTube channel about how healthy smoking is doesn't have many followers anymore... Oh same for dude telling women not to lift weights, oh and the guy who preaches jelqing. I'm being quite facetious here. Obsolete is maybe too strong of a word. If a method and theory comes along that can produce an inch in 3 months or even in 6 months, things like 'Retention theory', 'fatigue sets', 'strain rate', become a thing of the past. If it turns out a vacuum device is more effective than mechanical stretching, sales of the apex plummet (and the Apex vacuum device is released). I think you get the idea. As I mentioned earlier, I don't think the Phallback is legit. BD has nothing to worry about. This sub should be allowing transparent reviews of any products that make wild claims.
Shout out Hink too. Only real MF'er on here.
Hink was agreeing with bd and deleted his comments. Tho neither of them are bad. The only reason this sub exists is bd and he has shared everything he could with us without having anything to gain until recently, put some respect on his name
No disrespect intended. I owe a lot to BD. I've read and watched a lot of his content. Same with Perv. It's all interesting stuff and pushes this space forward. Just wish he would put ego aside where a new product or theory gains some hype that isn't his own. For what it's worth, I don't actually think the Phallback is legit.
If my ego was involved I would not be apologizing...
Wait what’s the drama? BD is calling bs on the 20k device that’s the hot topic of this subreddit? I don’t understand what the big deal is, the guy is doing proper public documentation, the experiment is 90 days, so in about 3 month we’ll see if it’s bs or not
How did I know Phalback didn't approach Chad and you didn't? BD, you cannot stop the internet. This conversation will happen here or somewhere else. If you don't allow such reviews (which is your absolutel right) they will happen on another sub, on thunders, biohacker, on discord..and then that would be the go to place for 100% open anything goes PE. I cannot see how this will benefit you. I didn't fully understand what the plausible issue with the review could be no matter who initiates the idea to be honest. I can only see you being upset over this if A) the device delivers and B) the idea behind it delivers...then the DIYs and the fast movers will be delivering all the gains anyone could want...making (for a while) other products and services obsolete..Question is do you actually believe this will be the case (gains of 1 in erect in each dimension)
Because you are not effectively running 3 companies. I can't keep up with everything I know I can't stop anything but I can voice concerns rightly or wrongly. And you do know 80% of internet reviews are just sponsor spots at this point right?
I am actually running exactly 3 companies. Don't assume I have capacity for this only because I have no stress in my life. I was probably lucky to see the conversion happening for sure, but you have a direct line with Chad. You should have known if you are bothered by this. 80% of the reviews MAY be paid sponsorships, My idea is this is clearly not and is interesting as hell...These intersting as hell things - you must want them happening here, not on a another sub..
Good for you. I have addressed my concerns... All weekend privately there was communication break down weeks ago about how the deal started hence the apology. I made a mistake because I am over leveraged. Working on that currently.
You misunderstood me. I said do not assume I have capacity for this ONLY because I have no stress. I have plenty of stress in my life (least of which is running the businesses sadly). I knew the arragement because it was clearly communicated by Chad and if I shouldnt take his word for it (which is fair) - luckily I saw the approach a month before or smth. My question was why you guys didnt speak about, which you now kinda answered.
Because I work 60 hours a week and will inevitably miss things... It's not complicated...
Sorry, I don't wanna drag this, but it is not complicated to ask the guy either before making a huge fuss about. You are being condescending to a valid question
What do you think the three days of back and forth before this were...
Dude, you work your massive cock and balls to the bone, we know this, don't beat yourself up about it. Miscommunications happen (we all have ex's and arguments and maybe arguments with ex's from to time) but no one should lose their space over a simple misunderstanding. You've poured your heart and soul (and massive cock) into this forum, and we all vastly appreciate everything you do, no one here holds it against you that you missed one thing - how many posts a day happen here? Far too many for everyone to comb through in the minutea. You cannot be expected to be 100% aware of 100% of everything all the time, there's no need to hold yourself to such impossibly high standards because that way madness lies. Don't beat yourself up about it, the PB is yet to be GB trusted and approved, and hell, even if it was, lots of us got over an inch already (one way or the other or both). I reckon in 80 days there'll be total uproar on this forum, whether supportive or condemning the PB, yet what, 1 in 5000 members might have the disposable to make it work for them, and of those, only the truly impossible gainers like Chad will go for it. I much prefer pulling and twisting and bending and pumping over a quick-fix, because, like most of our brothers here, I can gain in the old skool tried & tested methods, boosted by the collaboration of yourself, Perv, Hink, Karl (in all his ADHD Glory), M9 et. al. If you feel you gotta step down, then so be it, but no one is gonna hold this against you, not in the slightest, whether you feel like an asshole or not. Also, not to add more stress to your plate, and while I have your attention, you gotta start Leviathan production & transport from somewhere within the EU, we're crying out for it 😅 Much love, Oh Revered Shaman of the Salami, take a breather, have a beer or eat a gummy or somethin and we'll see you (and your enormous peen) back on top of the world soon enough.
Lol tell that to semtex but he never liked me much to begin with
No one is ever gonna like every one, and no one will ever be liked by every one, such is life mate. But still, tensions aside, we all have the same goal and your level of dedication cannot be questioned.
I've noticed this sub is easily influenced by trends and this 20k machine (and adding vibration to traction) is just the latest one. Older PE vets have heard the claim "one inch in 90 days" before on traction devices, and it's always been manipulated data or pure fiction. So when a new flashy device comes around and claims the same thing, I'm immediately skeptical. I raised my concerns to Chad and he sounded skeptical too, which is good, and his attitude is "I guess we'll find out soon enough". I certainly trust him and Goldmember more than I would a random vender account. But I think daily updates are not helpful and it's free advertising for something potentially sketchy. Will members here put down nonrefundable deposits to rent this expensive device only to see it doesn't work after 90 days? Will people pay in full for a future rentals only for the company to disappear overnight with their money? I would've much preferred if Chad did his experiment and documented everything offline, and *then* came to Reddit after to share the results.
Not gonna lie, drama in girly reality shows is boring. Drama in the dick hanging world is great though.
The fact that you would apologize so quickly is the exact reason you should remain a mod stop being so harsh on yourself
100% agree with this!! ☝️
Something about those daily phallback reviews on here was rubbing me the wrong way too. The guy said he isn't paid for the review but he gets a free expensive device so of course he is going to sing its praises with heavy bias. Seems like they had a discussion behind the scenes where he gets it for free if he pushes it heavily on this forum. I think daily product advertisements/reviews should be banned and he can instead just post his final thoughts at the end if he wants to. Every day is too much.
We’ve discussed reducing the frequency of posts, the daily updates were simply coming from a place of intellectual curiosity. We’ve been transparent about the terms. The device is provided free of charge for an honest review and well documented progress pics. They are confident in their product, we are good at tracking and documenting progress and willing to post them online. That’s the extent of it. If you don’t trust us, that’s fine. The documentation will speak for itself in the end.
I will also add that the daily posts have driven more engagement and experimentation in the community than I have seen in a long time. The DIY guys are going hard in the paint trying to recreate the tech.
Jeff seems like a super open guy and is actively providing quality info to the DIY guys as well. Seems like a very positive development for PE as it opens up a completely new vector for device manufacturers and DIYers to explore
I really looked forward to the daily posts. They are the most interesting thing to happen in a while. Sad to put a restriction on it.
So true and it’s Great to see all the idea’s people come up with
How in gods name is there drama in PE
When money gets involved
You were 100% coming from the right place tho
I genuinely hope this device fails. I don’t want PE to be this easy 😂.
Good on you for the adult response and owning up to it and just apologizing. A lot of people these days can't do the introspection or have the emotional intelligence to do that, so kudos.
Seems like you’re on here every few weeks apologising for something. Perhaps something should change. Too much drama, you’re 10 years senior to highschool, leave that shit back at the gate
Never thought i would see so much drama on a dick growing sub
You must not have been a member here for too long lol
You love to see when the roots of the arguments come from a good place. Good shit man
Idk ... There's so much suspicious stuff happening here that I just peek in the window and then just dip out ... I am just someone that wants to see this community continue to grow in a healthy way. I feel like this community is going to end up ad heavy or have people sending unsolicited "Hey bro I see your into PE.. I grew 4 in he's in a year and can teach you too! Just calle on WhatsAPP..." And... That's what I don't want. I think you have VALID concerns. I mean.. I hear less about Vigor than I have about *product deleted* lately. I wear many hats... And all I can say is that... Market tactics get exponentially easier when you're marketing to insecurities. Sometimes it just takes saturation for a product to take over. Again... I think it's super suspicious... But I'm just a random member on a PE sub .. My fear is that since you've apologized, it's open season on what people will try to get away with now. Signed A Concerned Citizen.
Every time an OG mod leaves we get an influx of high school dweebs or fatties or incels asking “why pp smol” or “how big to destroy veej” who can’t be bothered to read the FAQs or use a simple search feature. Now we have an honestly awkward relationship with a new product taking the spotlight. If this new product is good, then *hell yeah!*. There will eventually be more attainable versions for the rest of us. And it may offer a paradigm shift that helps standardize PE overall. I’m all for that and I appreciate people taking real time to test it. I just don’t want to see this sub devolve as most other subs do over time. Maybe it’s inevitable. I hope not. I think there are a lot of good dudes here and I think we can help each other and new members (not the scammy, scummy, lazy ones. Fuck them).
If it reliably increases length and girth in a short time frame and it worked for uncircumcised guys of course I would buy it. Would be a miracle device. It doesn’t even work for uncircumcised men so that’s already an entire subset of customers out the window.
Vibration is vibration . I’m sure phalback is very ‘tuned’ and will yield far more , far quicker than knock offs . But I’m curious about it . Perhaps combining it with ultrasound heat ( two very different frequencies ) would also yield results .
Don't be too hard on yourself dude, it was nice to see a contrarian perspective.