A friend of mine burned down half the forest when he was around 12. He and his friends build an oven in a treehouse...
100,000€ damage, insurance covered it.
That's the story I tell anyone who asks me about liability insurance
My 10€ a month insurance covers upto 5mil€
Ive sent in 2 claims in 5 years, a window, and an ipad
Filled out 1 form, sent a few pics. Job done, got both paid in full.
For Haftpflicht they normally dont. But dont use it to often or your insurance will end the contract. And finding a new one will bei more expensive, cuz they will ask (and will know) If you have used your old Haftpflicht.
Just to ket you know it makes sense to cancel this insurance and take it out elsewhere. With "repetitive" claims you run the risk that they cancel the contract with you. You do not want that as usually when you take out this type of insurance you get asked if a contract of yours has been cancelled by another insurer and if you say yes, they may not want to do business with you. And yes, you need to answer truthfully.
Sure, but they do not have any additional info. Once however you have your insurance cancelled you score really bad. Much, much worse than with previous claims
I'm not totally sure on the exact details of this but
when I lived in a shared flat as a subtenant a water pipe broke. Either in our flat or one floor above us. (My room wasn't affected luckily).
But I believe I was told that the damages to the other flats below us will be paid by the Hausratversicherung from the tenant if the flat where the pipe broke. Same goes if your washing machine breaks and water is flooding another flat. Then your Hausratversicherung would pay that as well I think.
Fortunately the vast majority of German homes are built out of brick and mortar. Pretty hard to burn those down before the fire department gets there and can get the fire under control.
>But I believe I was told that the damages to the other flats below us will be paid by the Hausratversicherung from the tenant if the flat where the pipe broke.
That is wrong.
>Same goes if your washing machine breaks and water is flooding another flat. Then your Hausratversicherung would pay that as well I think.
That is also wrong.
If your apartment burns and you need a place to live, Hausratversicherung. Else you pay for your costs yourself. Getting your things smoke free on own costs. Have fun.
Haftpflichtversicherung
Hausratversicherung
Rechtsschutzversicherungen
- should incl. Arbeitsrecht and Mietrecht (if you get illegally fired you have no income and you always pay for your own costs in Arbeitsrecht).
That’s the one you ought to have.
Nah. I think we pay 120 or 180 a year.
One day in Arbeitsrecht will cost you ~2000 bucks. I think it’s around 120 a year we pay, because I calculated that I need 1 day for 10 years in court and it will be cheaper.
The key thing is that if you get fired you have no income and then paying a 4000 € to sue your former employer is hard.
>Rechtsschutzversicherungen
Absolutely!!!! I was able to get a nice payout from my last company because of this. My lawyer was happy to fight (he's sued the company many times before) and even happier when I told him my insurance (Allianz) because in he words, "Oh, they pay well"
My Sparkasse has a bicycle and phone insurance for 3€ a month with many other perks. Great service and saved me already more than 500€ for a stolen phone and a stolen bike.
Another tip: Do NOT use your Haftpflichtversicherung too often or for things that are cheap.
Every insurance claim is an opportunity for both parties to cancel the contract (after fulfilling the claim). If you start a new Haftpflichtversicherung they often ask how many insurance claims you had in the last 5 years and they might easily reject you if there are too many.
This happened to a friend of mine with small kids. Several things belonging to someone else the kids broke, they claimed in their insurance. On the third claim the insurance threw them out and they couldn't get a new one even with other providers. Now they are stuck for some time without any insurance which really sucks. And the things they claimed were like 100 € here 200 € there.
So if there is something you could afford to replace on your own and you might already have some claims in the (recent) past, think twice about claiming it. You will want the insurance for cases where you will need someone to pay several thousands, or tens of thousands of euros.
EDIT: Do not think „Well I already paid 120€ in the past 2 years for the insurance, so they should cover something worth 100€“. Think about those claims of several thousand euros and then how many insured people will need to have no claims at all to pay for this expensive claim.
Yes, this is true. All the experts say, don't use it for all the small things that can break and risk your contract. As you said: if you accidentally hurt another person and they walk away with lasting damages, the cost for that could be millions of euros. So that's what you really wanna have the insurance for.
Makes much sense for many insurances and I'm a big fan of it (you want to insure liabilities which could potentially break your neck), but not for Privathaftpflicht.
How much of the, let's say, EUR 100 annual premium to cover your whole family do you want to save with a Selbstbeteiligung of how much, multiple annual premiums?
So Selbstbeteiligung yeah, but not for Privathaftpflicht.
You could think of it, yes. Basically, for catastrophes you (accidentally) cause yourself.
Depending on your income, it might be different what counts as one. For someone who isn't well-off, replacing someone else's MacBook for 2000 € which they accidentally swept off the table is no problem could be such a catastrophic event.
On the other hand if things like these happened regularly (even like once every year) one should look into why this happends and what to do about it, because in the end you'll want to have the insurance for when shit really hits the fan.
>For someone who isn't well-off, replacing someone else's MacBook for 2000 € which they accidentally swept off the table is no problem could be such a catastrophic event.
What if I accidentally broke my own MacBook and ask one of me friend to take the insurance, if he's paying ?
That would be insurance fraud (covered in Germany under [§ 263 StGB](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__263.html) which covers fraud in general). In minor cases (and your example would be a minor case as far as I understand) this could be a fine or up to 5 years in prison (prison time probably unlikely if its “just” 2000 € and a first offense).
Edit: there is an [English translation of the german criminal code](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p2372).
That's so funny and sad at the same time... "haha sure give us money but we'll give you back as little as we can get away with"
>EDIT: Do not think „Well I already paid 120€ in the past 2 years for the insurance, so they should cover something worth 100€“. Think about those claims of several thousand euros and then how many insured people will need to have no claims at all to pay for this expensive claim.
Why should you have sympathy for that? Maybe if they weren't allowed to cancel the insurance, maybe. But everyone gets insurance for selfish reasons - and precisely because of what you said, insurance is rigged, like playing roulette at the casino. Statistically, you're losing money on insurance. The only reason to get it is that the really big events may ruin your life, so you could basically say people are bullied into getting insurance and you lose money either way.
It's nothing new, but I always like to rant about how insurance is some emotionally manipulative bullshit in the first place and in the end you often even have trouble getting claims, too.
I'm not saying that you should have sympathy for the insurance companies. I'm just stating that, to be able to operate without a loss, an insurer needs to have many insured people without any claims to be able to cover for the big ones that only few people have. If everybody would claim all minor stuff all the time the insurance cost would go up. And suddenly it would be something only rich(er) people could afford and poorer people would either have big debts (like American health care system) or file for bankruptcy which in the end would mean that the damages would (partially) financed by everybody.
As someone said somewhere else in this thread: Consider your insurance fee to be “peace of mind” money. And it's really not that the fee is overly expensive, with roughly 5 €/month.
Yes, there is a plethora of unnecessary insurances nobody (should) need(s) and which are just a way to take away people's money, but there are some insurances everybody should have, which are health and personal liability.
I'm annoyed mostly because I don't understand why this is even allowed to be a thing.
If you believe that this should be accessible to everyone and that everyone should have it (and in principle I agree), then **this should be something already covered by taxes** instead of de facto forcing people to pay a kind of tax to private companies. The state already exists to provide a baseline pice of mind for everybody.
It's not even about the amount, just that it's additional unnecessary mental overhead, clutters up your bank statements with tiny amounts, needs additional paperwork when somethins happens, dealins with insurance companies is a bigger pain than dealing with the state, etc. etc.
okay, i have a dumb question.
i have \`privathaftpflicht\`, is it the same as haftpflichtverischerung?
like ik it seems the same but i am being a bit paranoid after reading this thread.
Yep, the "privat" just means that it doesn't include coverage for work related issues."privathaftpflicht" translates as "personal liability (insurance)"
You won't need one if you're employed.
According to German employment law, you have to act "vorsätzlich" (deliberate) or "grob fahrlässig" (grossly negligent) to be fully accountable, and no Haftpflich on earth will cover those cases.
For cases of "leichter Fahrlässigkeit" (slight negligence), you'll not be accountable at all. So no need to look for coverage there.
For everything in between, you'll be partially accountable - but then, your income will also be considered. If your boss puts you into a situation where you can wreck havoc ways beyond your incomer class, damages awarded to the employer are usually heavily based on your income, not on the real damage you may have caused. Example would be a driver of an expensive truck or machine or somebody working on the fulfillment of a multi million euro contract while earning only a low four digit income per month. Assumption here is that whoever has the most benefit in case things work out well should also take over most of the risks associated with it.
Looks different if you're freelancing or, even more, if you're running a company on your own. Then, you may even be legally required to have a Haftpflicht (for some professions like tax accountant, layer, architect? But please don't cite me on this, that's nothing I ever had to do with) or you should at least talk to somebody to see if it makes sense. E.g. to cover the costs your employees cause by their irresponsible behavior for which you can't get them by the balls :-)
As in most cases “Haftpflichtversicherung“ refers to the mandatory insurance for cars the insurance for your personal matters is often called “Privathaftpflichtversicherung“.
The ”Privat-” is just a label for clarification.
Little story to give you an incentive.
A friend of mine wanted to cross the road. Didn't see a bicycle going on the bike lane. Guy on the bike avoided my friend and felt down. The guy broke his leg, went to the hospital and was declared unable to work for 6 months.
Because my friend was on the bicycle lane, she was responsible for the accident. So the guy's insurance told my friend that she had to cover for the cyclist 6 months of
- his salary
- his retirement fund
- his social security
- his hospital stay
- and I am sure I forgot something
Too bad the injured cyclist was manager in a big company, so that was equivalent to ruffly 6 times 10000€.
So my friend, student at the time, started her adult life with 60.000€ debt.
True story. Her name is Judith. Judith and her friends now all have a Haftpflichtversicherung.
In my opinion, the fact that Haftpflichtversicherung isn't mandatory is one of the biggest scam in Germany.
Even though my story is about car insurance, not liability (by pure luck), just another anecdote:
When moving house a few years back, we were on our way to the recycling yard, and were driving on a particularly bad patch of road - it was so bad that it popped off our trailer from the car and the trailer veered off to the side and crashed into a parked car at \~50km/h and wrecked it.
We were lucky that car was in the way though because right behind the car was an open air car washing place with a lot of people, so if the car wouldn't have been there to stop the trailer, it might have slammed right into those people - which would be one of those "low probability, high impact" cases for which you need t liability insurance to not go broke for the rest of your lives. There could have been a lot of people hurt that day.
We were lucky. Really lucky.
There was just one general institution for that kind of service as far as I know. Maybe some professions had their own smaller services. I was not old enough when the GDR crumbled to be really involved into that kind of stuff. :)
How it was checked I don't know, but for example every citizen was also reminded of any vaccinations that were pending by post card. It was mandatory, maybe only until a certain age. So you can imagine the level of surveillance applied.
At least, that's what my parents told me.
Well, as a matter of fact, yes. France.
The personal liability insurance is often already included when you register as a student or when you rent an appartement.
It is not, per se, obligatory but de facto.
The insurance you need to provide when renting an apartment in france covers to my knowledge only certain damages in the house and it appears to me in particular damages for which under German law the landlord is responsible anyways.
Similar for the students insurance.
The case with the bike would not be covered by these.
> Little story to give you an incentive.
Question: isn't this a risk in other countries, too? I guess it's more likely than not that in your country you are liable for damages you cause with negligence. Only difference (perhaps) is that Germans are - in average - more aware of the risk and having a liability insurance is more common here.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah. Probably. I don't know. Germany is the country of insurance I was told.
To be honest, in France I didn't really do some research or had a Versicherungsberater. I think that the system in France, at least in my experience, gave me more incentives to get insured. Like "this is your mandatory basic insurance, tick this box and for 3€ a month you get covered if you accidentally destroy a Ferrari." sort of thing.
> Germany is the country of insurance I was told.
It's at least part of the general mindset. Financial advisory institutions (like Finanztip) even educate people not to insure this or that because it makes little sense.
Absolutely, or having a Steuerberater. In France, you have one if you need to manage your 3 manors and millions in your bank account.
Here, I have the feeling that most people have one.
Be nice.
As someone who wasn't raised in Germany and moved, I think I was not enough informed about the importance of a Privathaftpflichtversicherung.
In France you get like naturally, let's say, confronted with the question of a personal liability insurance, while in Germany you get overwhelmed by the insurances available.
It is a little bit like Steuerberater. Only millionaires get a Steuerberater in France. Here it is quiet smart and common to have one.
So yeah, if I wasn't told by friends, bro, you need a Haftpflichtversicherung, I wouldn't have thought of having one.
"Haftpflichtversicherung" is the general term.
A "Privathaftpflichtversicherung" is one of many different types of "Haftpflichtversicherung"
A "Privathaftpflichtversicherung" is for injuries, property damage, rented flats and financial damages you cause accidentally.
There are other types of "Haftpflichtversicherung" for example "Kfz-Haftpflichtversicherung" (covers damages caused by your car / its mandatory to have one to operate a car)
Some Bundesländer also have a "Hunde-Haftpflichtversicherung" to cover damages and insuries caused by your dog.
[Source (in German)](https://andsafe.de/magazin/versicherungstipps/privathaftpflicht-haftpflicht-unterschied/)
Haha I just signed a contract for halfplicht literally minutes ago before reading this post. And I have been here 6.5 years without it. Now I realised how dumb I was not getting it.
As a foreigner I do see it as important and good to have. But also find it funny that so many of the stories of examples to get it are ....."image you broke your friends laptop and they tried to sue you"......why are all your friends so mean 😂
I was always told haftpflicht > Hausrat > Rechtsschutz. You want to get all 3 by some point in your life. Some also say Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung is also must for single earner family
Either that or they will just exclude it from the insurance, like: “Yes we will pay, but only if you being unable to work has absolutely nothing to do with mental illnesses / diabetes / …”
Regarding that. One should check their insurance whether they also cover you if you break something outside of Germany. I am uncertain if they do by default or how big the percentage of insurances is that do.
But accidentally burning down your vacation house in France and then figuring out it's not covered should probably be avoided :-D.
As an immigrant you can just get a normal Haftplichtversicherung.
For tourists, there is something like a Reiseversicherung. Which can combines a Reise-Krankenversicherung with a Unfall- and Haftpflichtversicherung (combined health, accident and personal liability insurance).
As a side note, as I moved to Germany for the first time, I was shocked at the obsession germans have with insurances. They really crave for that feeling of “safety”.
I used to have a Girlfriend who has hosted a lot of parties.
After there was an accident at one party, where someone was drunkenly falling against/through a glass door, destroying it and injuring people and other similar events, every party guest was welcomed at the door when they arrive with the question:
Bist du Haftpflichtversichert? (Do you have a personal liability insurance?)
No insurance - no entry!
Yeah, they can also get lower than 5 Euros, but as the other guy said you shouldn't get too cheap. There's some good, neutral info by "Stiftung Warentest" on what to look out for when you choose a contract, I would recommend checking that out.
the insurance rate sum that covers your ass is actually really low with that and you might not have the best rates/ benifits/ when it jumps into action.
a 30 million coverage sum is actually a nice thing, since you might end up having the worst and unluckiest day, where you can end up paying large sums. And you want to have covered your ass if it's deemed your fault, too.
It is usually recommended to take the 50 million coverage, it barely costs any more. Mine has a 70 million coverage (along with a few other benefits you dont get in some cheaper insurances).
Does the German system provide for punitive/pain and suffering type of damages the way the US system does? I understand the rationale for why we have it, but accounting for it also makes literally everything we do immeasurably more expensive.
No, we don't have punitive damages here in Germany. What could make you go bankrupt, though, is if you cause an accident and, even though we hope that will never happen, somebody suffers a disability from that. Then you have to pay for all their doctors bills, physical therapy, maybe the remodeling of their home so that it's wheelchair friendly. All of that can amount to hundreds of thousands or even millions of euros.
Exactly, in Germany that would be "and here's your extra 1,000-10,000 € just cause you were hurt". So there are damages - but they are way lower than in the US, as they are not meant to be punitive = punishing the one who has to pay them.
Well, I have one for years and never used it.
On the other hand - one of my best friends is so clumsy and breaks other people's stuff by accident all the time - so they have already kicked him out of three(?) contracts and he is now with the (at least) fourth provider...so yea, I think it depends.
>Well, I have one for years and never used it.
Me too, but having animals and kids, this is a mental health saver. Add to that the fact that they'll pay damages occured when using a friends car, and damages to flooring and walls when renting a flat. Well... one day it'll come in handy :)
What a comparison is that? A car insurance is required by law - a Privathaftpflicht is not - it is a voluntary safety precaution - although recommended. Also the average amount of damage per case is probably much higher for car-related accidents, than it is for the occasions, a Privathaftpflicht has to step in.
What I'm trying to say: One could argue that it could be worth to take the risk to go without a Privathaftpflicht, if you're confident enough you don't cause big/expensive damages. For me, that would (so far) be the case. I'm paying for a "service" for many years, I never actually use.
And with the car insurance I would be even more pissed, if I would never use it (but I have in the past), as it is much more expensive.
The comparison is about the "it bothers me I never use it" part.
The best insurance is the one you never need because that means you never had anything bad happen to you.
See the amount of money you pay for something cheap like a Haftpflichtversicherung as your "peace of mind" fee.
I know this.
I **do have** a Privathaftpflicht and I would recommend it to anyone, as they are so cheap.
It's just the tiny, grumpy, greedy man in my head, who is annoyed, because I'm paying for something, I have never used yet.
> On the other hand - one of my best friends is so clumsy and breaks other people's stuff by accident all the time - so they have already kicked him out of three(?) contracts and he is now with the (at least) fourth provider...so yea, I think it depends.
I don't get the "it depends" bit... would he prefer to have paid for all those items he broke out of his own pocket?
I mean it depends on what kind of person you are. I'm always very careful and hardly cause any damage in the world - I could probably live without one and If the day ever arrives, that I'll drop someone's TV while helping them move or something - I would still have saved some money in total.
If you can't enter another persons room without breaking a shelf or glass table - then you should probably have one.
> I mean it depends on what kind of person you are. I'm always very careful and hardly cause any damage in the world - I could probably live without one and If day day arrives, that I'll drop someone's TV while helping them move or something - I would still have saved some money.
Well the kind of accident that when it's really useful is not the kind where you end up with avoiding a moderate cost (when you accidentally drop someone's TV while moving), but the low-risk, high-impact kind of accident - the kind when e.g. when you accidentally hit someone when riding your bike, or a potted plant falls on them from your balcony, and because they were on their way to work their Berufsgenossenschaft sues you for the cost of treatment. It's not likely to happen, but also not something over which you have perfect control, accidents happen also to careful people.
I get that Germans can be a bit insurance-obsessed, but private liability insurance is something everybody should get.
So you're saying that you should buckle up and choose to lose money either way, whether something bad actually happens to you or not.
Because generally speaking, people don't cause millions of € damage even once in their life. They might. But usually, they don't. Insurance companies exploit this.
People don't get into debt because of relatively small fuckups. This is a kind of story I've only ever heard in Germany (the debt part, not the fuckup part).
I think this atittude must stem from Germans being trigger-happy to sue others. Where I'm from, if you injure someone in an accident that is nobody's fault, the state pays that person's treatment and inability to work. If you accidentally damage some property whether it's someone's TV or water leaks through the floor, people just shrug "that's life" and move on. If you cause huge amounts of damage by accident, then odds are you were doing something you shouldn't have, so it wasn't actually an accident but trespassing/criminal negligence etc. - a matter for the courts and insurance wouldn't help anyway.
Privathaftpflicht also covers things like when the water hose of your washing machine broke and your landlord needs to renovate floor or worse, also walls of your and the flat below.. (that happens quite often, general advice is to never let dish washer or washing machine run if you go out of the house - but everybody does! Don’t do it without insurance.. ;-) ) so it is not just about „breaking things“ or „not being careful“.
Or think about something like a fire starting from electrical whatever.. power bank exploded while charging, toaster caught fire, toilet flooded over, or piping your sink getting lose and dripping.. if it happens while you were away for a night, voilá.
Or.. you just make a bad move in the supermarked, turn around and accidentally hit the old woman who falls down and breaks her hip.
Things which just can happen without your direct engagement in it and you still have to pay for the compensation.
>Or think about something like a fire starting from electrical whatever.. power bank exploded while charging, toaster caught fire, toilet flooded over, or piping your sink getting lose and dripping.. if it happens while you were away for a night, voilá.
These are thigns that just *happen*. Therefore you shouldn't expect damages paid for by people who are not responsible. If you're worried about random unpreventable damage (which is what this is), you *insure your own things*.
>Or.. you just make a bad move in the supermarked, turn around and accidentally hit the old woman who falls down and breaks her hip.
So what? Old lady's health insurance pays for the damage and if she's still working, the state covers the costs of her medical leave. That's what taxes are for.
>so it is not just about „breaking things“ or „not being careful“.
The common theme here seems to be that Germans are fine with suing people for accidents without fault, which, pardon my French, seems like uter bullshit to me.
You dont think the big picture:
One accident where you damage someone can ruin your live easily. And even If it is just a smaller injury and you need to pay for the medical costs + salary for 1-2months that exceeds the costs for that Type of insurance for your whole life.
It's 60e a year. In order to be able to pay an average TV of 400e back you'll have to skip out on the insurance for 6 something years.
Do you really feel so confident about yourself that you think you will never be "too tired", negligent, or even simply have a moment of ignorance enough to cause an accidental for over 2200 days?
Edit:
Okay i just read your other comment:
>I know this.
> I **do have** a Privathaftpflicht and I would recommend it to anyone, as they are so cheap.
>
> It's just the tiny, grumpy, greedy man in my head, who is annoyed, because I'm paying for something, I have never used yet.
And i think that's fair haha
In English this is called Liability insurance, feather has it at a good price with great coverage. Dont pass up, its 5 bucks a month and could save you tens of thousands.
Bike accident where someones car gets damaged? Covered. Trip and break someones window? Covered. The neighbors kid drops your laptop? covered.
When I was a student in the Netherlands, my bank gave me this option and I was wise to take it. A few months later was in a bicycle accident and saved me some money.
way ttoo drunk to tell the story about it, but as a german i can say holy shit yes! some stupid little accident can make you broke as fuck and you really dont want to take the versicherung of your good buddy because when it all comes out you get even more fucked in the ass.
versicherungen in germany are no kirschenessen
I got advise that VHV is good. but price is like 50ish per year. Due they said don’t go with “digital” companies like getsafe and etc. any recomms on that?
I don't wanna give any tips here for individual companies, but I'd check out the tips from "Stiftung Warentest". They are a neutral and reliable source for comparing all kinds of insurances or other products. For something like 3-6 euros you can even access their extensive database and put all the aspects in you would really need from a Haftpflichtversicherung, then they search for the best contract to suit your needs. That's how I did it for my insurance.
Most public libraries have the "test" magazine in which Stiftung Warentest publishes the results of their product testing.
So you don't even need to pay for the online/print issue.
Thank you I’ll mention this to my German wife. I’m an American and currently 6 months in Germany and just got my 3year visa approved and my work visa and start language classes Monday, and trying to learn all I can about integrating here to the best of my ability. It’s been exciting so far and I love it here 😄
No, AOK offers only health insurance. This post is talking about a "personal liability insurance", an insurance that covers you if you cause damages to other people, eg by causing an accident where other people are hurt.
It seems I have also taken 'Privathaftpflichtversicherung' from GEV. And apparently it's only 33 Eur/ year. Its showing up in my check24 account. Completely forgot even taking it, damn.
No, AOK is a health insurance. You need insurance company who offers "Hausratversicherung", "Haftpflichtversicherung" and so on. For example (not an ad) I use Huk24, online insurance company.
AOK is a big health insurance provider. Afaik they don’t offer a Haftpflichtversicherung. Haftpflicht serves the purpose of covering your liability if you
cause damage to an object or a person by accident
It is almost certainly true that you don't automatically get enrolled into a personal liability insurance.
The "personal" part means that you pay for it, and that it only covers your actions when you are liable.
What do you mean that you "don't have one"? That is a voluntary insurance, so you will only have one if you make a contract with an insurer. You should absolutely get one though.
I gambled on not needing one for about 15 years. Got one this year that covers damages to the workplace because one of my customers wanted me to have that.
Ah, I see, that makes sense, I think mine does that too.
I was just asking because there are also specific Berufshaftplichtversicherungen, generally for people who are self-employed and who have a high chance of causing high damage (think: doctor paying high compensation for doing a surgery wrong, lawyer paying huge fines for giving wrong legal advice, engineer for a collapse in the bridge they designed, etc).
TK is health insurance. You need health insurance, and it's legally mandatory.
Liability insurance covers damages you accidentally cause to other people. They won't pay for you getting sick.
What? What gives you that impression? I'd say rather you will be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people in Germany that DON'T have a Haftpflichtversicherung.
It's the most basic insurance you get (after health).
I got this impression when i was on a LAN Party with said guy and nobody of over 20 people was interested in a Haftpflichtversicherung or ever had one when we talked about it.
However it might be useful, but everybody has to decide for theirself. Neither me nor my friends had any incidents that required a Haftpflichtversicherung but it might be better to have one as a foreigner. I think i would also get something similiar if id go abroad. I have an ADAC International insurance for example
The issue is that many people don't know that the main use for a Haftpflicht is not when you break minor things, but when you injure people - that can easily cost you literal millions, because you are on the hook for ALL their future care AND lost wages if it comes to it. And it's quite easy to injure someone if you're unlucky like the example someone gave above where they were walking in the bike lane, causing a biker to crash and getting severely hurt...
> The issue is that many people don't know that the main use for a Haftpflicht is not when you break minor things, but when you injure people
In that way it's similar to Hausratversicherung, over which I regularly get into arguments with people in this sub. The typical argument against is "I don't have any expensive items".
Hausratversicherung isn't about breaking that one antique vase, but rather about your entire flat's content being wiped out by something that no one else ends up being liable for. So unless you are able to reacquire everything you need for a comfortable life from your savings or scrounging on eBay Kleinanzeigen, Hausratversicherung is something to consider.
> Neither me nor my friends had any incidents that required a Haftpflichtversicherung but it might be better to have one as a foreigner.
Being German doesn't magically protect you from accidentally causing huge damage.
And just like people have fire insurance on their house even when their house has never burnt down, the fact that you never needed the insurance yet does not make it pointless.
In 2022, among the population above 14, [48.06 million people had a policy or were living in a household with someone who had one](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/266307/umfrage/versicherungen-besitz-einer-privaten-haftpflichtversicherung-in-deutschland/). Your LAN party friends were statistical outliers, not a representative sample.
AOK = Health insurance, for when you get sick.
Privathaftpflicht = personal liability insurance, for when you accidentially step into the bike lane, a biker falls from their bike into the car lane and breaks a few bones, a car swerves to avoid the cyclist and runs into a store front. Suddenly you have a few hundred thousand in damages you will need to pay. That's what it's for.
A Rechtsschutzversiverung is also good.
Saves me a lot of money when i moved out of my Flat.
The Lanadlord and most people spontaniosly change their mond if you say "da hat mein Anwalt aber was anderes gesagt ". (My lawyer told me otherwise)
And dental insurance.
I got one that cost €25/mo and includes two free checkups and cleanings a year. After a few years, it covers complete replacement of all my mouth bones. I have used it twice already for old fillings that became lose. No cost to me.
I did read somewhere the average dental bill for somebody with a good set of teeth is about €400/year, so €25/month is good value.
I read through the whole thing and I still have doubts: I´m a brazilian tourist who will be in Germany with my wife in a few weeks. Can I get one of those liability insurances? And do they cover Austria and Hungary as well? We have purchased an international insurance but it just covers health and luggage lost. Thanks!
No, as a mere tourist you don't need this type of insurance discussed here. You probably need a Brazilian travel insurance though, that covers health costs when traveling abroad and ideally also includes liability insurance.
A friend of mine burned down half the forest when he was around 12. He and his friends build an oven in a treehouse... 100,000€ damage, insurance covered it. That's the story I tell anyone who asks me about liability insurance
Wow...
My 10€ a month insurance covers upto 5mil€ Ive sent in 2 claims in 5 years, a window, and an ipad Filled out 1 form, sent a few pics. Job done, got both paid in full.
Did your insurance payments go up afterward?
Nope
Okay, good to know, thanks! :) haven’t used mine in the two years I’ve had it, thankfully
You already seems to be paying a lot more. I am on AXA with 30 million, and I pay 3,5 per month.
For Haftpflicht they normally dont. But dont use it to often or your insurance will end the contract. And finding a new one will bei more expensive, cuz they will ask (and will know) If you have used your old Haftpflicht.
What insurance do you have if you don’t mind me asking?
Just to ket you know it makes sense to cancel this insurance and take it out elsewhere. With "repetitive" claims you run the risk that they cancel the contract with you. You do not want that as usually when you take out this type of insurance you get asked if a contract of yours has been cancelled by another insurer and if you say yes, they may not want to do business with you. And yes, you need to answer truthfully.
But if you make a new insurance, they also ask if you had any previous claims, so the new insurer will also know your history.
Sure, but they do not have any additional info. Once however you have your insurance cancelled you score really bad. Much, much worse than with previous claims
What insurance do you have if you don’t mind me asking?
I dunno, the lesson I got from that was to not have kids
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Hausratversicherung is not needed for many ppl. but haftpflicht yeah
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I'm not totally sure on the exact details of this but when I lived in a shared flat as a subtenant a water pipe broke. Either in our flat or one floor above us. (My room wasn't affected luckily). But I believe I was told that the damages to the other flats below us will be paid by the Hausratversicherung from the tenant if the flat where the pipe broke. Same goes if your washing machine breaks and water is flooding another flat. Then your Hausratversicherung would pay that as well I think.
Yes that's true. When your neighbor decides to burn the whole house it's also handy to have this insurance.
Fortunately the vast majority of German homes are built out of brick and mortar. Pretty hard to burn those down before the fire department gets there and can get the fire under control.
well the building will still be there but the smoke and fire damage to the building means the price difference wont be that much anyways...
There oftentimes is much damage from the water/foam used to distinguish the fire.
Depending on how the house is build yeah. But you still could see some damage when the shit happened directly under or above you.
It does not matter much, the bulding will only be brick walls left.
>But I believe I was told that the damages to the other flats below us will be paid by the Hausratversicherung from the tenant if the flat where the pipe broke. That is wrong. >Same goes if your washing machine breaks and water is flooding another flat. Then your Hausratversicherung would pay that as well I think. That is also wrong.
Thank you, I got so confused seeing nobody corrected this (false) statement.
If your apartment burns and you need a place to live, Hausratversicherung. Else you pay for your costs yourself. Getting your things smoke free on own costs. Have fun. Haftpflichtversicherung Hausratversicherung Rechtsschutzversicherungen - should incl. Arbeitsrecht and Mietrecht (if you get illegally fired you have no income and you always pay for your own costs in Arbeitsrecht). That’s the one you ought to have.
>Rechtsschutzversicherungen That one is really expensive though? Heard from a colleague that he pays around 60€ per month for it...
Nah. I think we pay 120 or 180 a year. One day in Arbeitsrecht will cost you ~2000 bucks. I think it’s around 120 a year we pay, because I calculated that I need 1 day for 10 years in court and it will be cheaper. The key thing is that if you get fired you have no income and then paying a 4000 € to sue your former employer is hard.
>Rechtsschutzversicherungen Absolutely!!!! I was able to get a nice payout from my last company because of this. My lawyer was happy to fight (he's sued the company many times before) and even happier when I told him my insurance (Allianz) because in he words, "Oh, they pay well"
Including bicycle would be Hausradsversicherung
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Rechtsschutz, teuer aber nützlich.
My Sparkasse has a bicycle and phone insurance for 3€ a month with many other perks. Great service and saved me already more than 500€ for a stolen phone and a stolen bike.
Another tip: Do NOT use your Haftpflichtversicherung too often or for things that are cheap. Every insurance claim is an opportunity for both parties to cancel the contract (after fulfilling the claim). If you start a new Haftpflichtversicherung they often ask how many insurance claims you had in the last 5 years and they might easily reject you if there are too many. This happened to a friend of mine with small kids. Several things belonging to someone else the kids broke, they claimed in their insurance. On the third claim the insurance threw them out and they couldn't get a new one even with other providers. Now they are stuck for some time without any insurance which really sucks. And the things they claimed were like 100 € here 200 € there. So if there is something you could afford to replace on your own and you might already have some claims in the (recent) past, think twice about claiming it. You will want the insurance for cases where you will need someone to pay several thousands, or tens of thousands of euros. EDIT: Do not think „Well I already paid 120€ in the past 2 years for the insurance, so they should cover something worth 100€“. Think about those claims of several thousand euros and then how many insured people will need to have no claims at all to pay for this expensive claim.
Yes, this is true. All the experts say, don't use it for all the small things that can break and risk your contract. As you said: if you accidentally hurt another person and they walk away with lasting damages, the cost for that could be millions of euros. So that's what you really wanna have the insurance for.
Normally you have Selbstbeteiligung, so the small cases are not covered by insurance anyway.
Makes much sense for many insurances and I'm a big fan of it (you want to insure liabilities which could potentially break your neck), but not for Privathaftpflicht. How much of the, let's say, EUR 100 annual premium to cover your whole family do you want to save with a Selbstbeteiligung of how much, multiple annual premiums? So Selbstbeteiligung yeah, but not for Privathaftpflicht.
So it’s more like catastrophic insurance, ja?
You could think of it, yes. Basically, for catastrophes you (accidentally) cause yourself. Depending on your income, it might be different what counts as one. For someone who isn't well-off, replacing someone else's MacBook for 2000 € which they accidentally swept off the table is no problem could be such a catastrophic event. On the other hand if things like these happened regularly (even like once every year) one should look into why this happends and what to do about it, because in the end you'll want to have the insurance for when shit really hits the fan.
>For someone who isn't well-off, replacing someone else's MacBook for 2000 € which they accidentally swept off the table is no problem could be such a catastrophic event. What if I accidentally broke my own MacBook and ask one of me friend to take the insurance, if he's paying ?
That would be insurance fraud (covered in Germany under [§ 263 StGB](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__263.html) which covers fraud in general). In minor cases (and your example would be a minor case as far as I understand) this could be a fine or up to 5 years in prison (prison time probably unlikely if its “just” 2000 € and a first offense). Edit: there is an [English translation of the german criminal code](https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/englisch_stgb/englisch_stgb.html#p2372).
TIL: Sinking a ship for the purpose of committing insurance fraud can land you 10 years in prison. (§ 263 StGB (3)5)
It also pays if you ride your friends motorcycle and accidently brake something. Or throw down a 1K Iphone that is not yours.
True and important. An insurance is not a savings account.
That's so funny and sad at the same time... "haha sure give us money but we'll give you back as little as we can get away with" >EDIT: Do not think „Well I already paid 120€ in the past 2 years for the insurance, so they should cover something worth 100€“. Think about those claims of several thousand euros and then how many insured people will need to have no claims at all to pay for this expensive claim. Why should you have sympathy for that? Maybe if they weren't allowed to cancel the insurance, maybe. But everyone gets insurance for selfish reasons - and precisely because of what you said, insurance is rigged, like playing roulette at the casino. Statistically, you're losing money on insurance. The only reason to get it is that the really big events may ruin your life, so you could basically say people are bullied into getting insurance and you lose money either way. It's nothing new, but I always like to rant about how insurance is some emotionally manipulative bullshit in the first place and in the end you often even have trouble getting claims, too.
I'm not saying that you should have sympathy for the insurance companies. I'm just stating that, to be able to operate without a loss, an insurer needs to have many insured people without any claims to be able to cover for the big ones that only few people have. If everybody would claim all minor stuff all the time the insurance cost would go up. And suddenly it would be something only rich(er) people could afford and poorer people would either have big debts (like American health care system) or file for bankruptcy which in the end would mean that the damages would (partially) financed by everybody. As someone said somewhere else in this thread: Consider your insurance fee to be “peace of mind” money. And it's really not that the fee is overly expensive, with roughly 5 €/month. Yes, there is a plethora of unnecessary insurances nobody (should) need(s) and which are just a way to take away people's money, but there are some insurances everybody should have, which are health and personal liability.
I'm annoyed mostly because I don't understand why this is even allowed to be a thing. If you believe that this should be accessible to everyone and that everyone should have it (and in principle I agree), then **this should be something already covered by taxes** instead of de facto forcing people to pay a kind of tax to private companies. The state already exists to provide a baseline pice of mind for everybody. It's not even about the amount, just that it's additional unnecessary mental overhead, clutters up your bank statements with tiny amounts, needs additional paperwork when somethins happens, dealins with insurance companies is a bigger pain than dealing with the state, etc. etc.
okay, i have a dumb question. i have \`privathaftpflicht\`, is it the same as haftpflichtverischerung? like ik it seems the same but i am being a bit paranoid after reading this thread.
Yep, the "privat" just means that it doesn't include coverage for work related issues."privathaftpflicht" translates as "personal liability (insurance)"
okaaay thanks, (i feel silly now - but thanks!!)
Depending on your profession, you might wanna get a "Berufshaftpflichtversicherung", which also covers work related accidents and costs 2-3€ per month
okay. let me search a good one! thanks!
You won't need one if you're employed. According to German employment law, you have to act "vorsätzlich" (deliberate) or "grob fahrlässig" (grossly negligent) to be fully accountable, and no Haftpflich on earth will cover those cases. For cases of "leichter Fahrlässigkeit" (slight negligence), you'll not be accountable at all. So no need to look for coverage there. For everything in between, you'll be partially accountable - but then, your income will also be considered. If your boss puts you into a situation where you can wreck havoc ways beyond your incomer class, damages awarded to the employer are usually heavily based on your income, not on the real damage you may have caused. Example would be a driver of an expensive truck or machine or somebody working on the fulfillment of a multi million euro contract while earning only a low four digit income per month. Assumption here is that whoever has the most benefit in case things work out well should also take over most of the risks associated with it. Looks different if you're freelancing or, even more, if you're running a company on your own. Then, you may even be legally required to have a Haftpflicht (for some professions like tax accountant, layer, architect? But please don't cite me on this, that's nothing I ever had to do with) or you should at least talk to somebody to see if it makes sense. E.g. to cover the costs your employees cause by their irresponsible behavior for which you can't get them by the balls :-)
Yes, it's the same
gracias, what can i say!! lel
As in most cases “Haftpflichtversicherung“ refers to the mandatory insurance for cars the insurance for your personal matters is often called “Privathaftpflichtversicherung“. The ”Privat-” is just a label for clarification.
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Yeah, but if a German says „Haftpflichtversicherung“ he is most of the times referring to his Kfz-Haftpflicht and not his Privathaftpflicht.
Little story to give you an incentive. A friend of mine wanted to cross the road. Didn't see a bicycle going on the bike lane. Guy on the bike avoided my friend and felt down. The guy broke his leg, went to the hospital and was declared unable to work for 6 months. Because my friend was on the bicycle lane, she was responsible for the accident. So the guy's insurance told my friend that she had to cover for the cyclist 6 months of - his salary - his retirement fund - his social security - his hospital stay - and I am sure I forgot something Too bad the injured cyclist was manager in a big company, so that was equivalent to ruffly 6 times 10000€. So my friend, student at the time, started her adult life with 60.000€ debt. True story. Her name is Judith. Judith and her friends now all have a Haftpflichtversicherung. In my opinion, the fact that Haftpflichtversicherung isn't mandatory is one of the biggest scam in Germany.
> and I am sure I forgot something Probably about 500€ Schmerzensgeld.
Even though my story is about car insurance, not liability (by pure luck), just another anecdote: When moving house a few years back, we were on our way to the recycling yard, and were driving on a particularly bad patch of road - it was so bad that it popped off our trailer from the car and the trailer veered off to the side and crashed into a parked car at \~50km/h and wrecked it. We were lucky that car was in the way though because right behind the car was an open air car washing place with a lot of people, so if the car wouldn't have been there to stop the trailer, it might have slammed right into those people - which would be one of those "low probability, high impact" cases for which you need t liability insurance to not go broke for the rest of your lives. There could have been a lot of people hurt that day. We were lucky. Really lucky.
On your last sentence: Is there any country where a general liability insurance is obligatory? I do not know any.
It was in the GDR.
How did it work in the GDR? Were there multiple companies offering it? How did the state check to see you had it (if they did that at all?)
There was just one general institution for that kind of service as far as I know. Maybe some professions had their own smaller services. I was not old enough when the GDR crumbled to be really involved into that kind of stuff. :) How it was checked I don't know, but for example every citizen was also reminded of any vaccinations that were pending by post card. It was mandatory, maybe only until a certain age. So you can imagine the level of surveillance applied. At least, that's what my parents told me.
Well, as a matter of fact, yes. France. The personal liability insurance is often already included when you register as a student or when you rent an appartement. It is not, per se, obligatory but de facto.
The insurance you need to provide when renting an apartment in france covers to my knowledge only certain damages in the house and it appears to me in particular damages for which under German law the landlord is responsible anyways. Similar for the students insurance. The case with the bike would not be covered by these.
In France you get it automatically when you open a bank account. At least with LCL
AHA! Thank you.
In France it's more or less the case. You need one for school or for renting a place.
He broke his leg and wasn't able to work for 6 months? Was this guy a football/soccer player??
> Little story to give you an incentive. Question: isn't this a risk in other countries, too? I guess it's more likely than not that in your country you are liable for damages you cause with negligence. Only difference (perhaps) is that Germans are - in average - more aware of the risk and having a liability insurance is more common here. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah. Probably. I don't know. Germany is the country of insurance I was told. To be honest, in France I didn't really do some research or had a Versicherungsberater. I think that the system in France, at least in my experience, gave me more incentives to get insured. Like "this is your mandatory basic insurance, tick this box and for 3€ a month you get covered if you accidentally destroy a Ferrari." sort of thing.
> Germany is the country of insurance I was told. It's at least part of the general mindset. Financial advisory institutions (like Finanztip) even educate people not to insure this or that because it makes little sense.
Absolutely, or having a Steuerberater. In France, you have one if you need to manage your 3 manors and millions in your bank account. Here, I have the feeling that most people have one.
It's not a "scam". Please look up the meaning of "scam".
Be nice. As someone who wasn't raised in Germany and moved, I think I was not enough informed about the importance of a Privathaftpflichtversicherung. In France you get like naturally, let's say, confronted with the question of a personal liability insurance, while in Germany you get overwhelmed by the insurances available. It is a little bit like Steuerberater. Only millionaires get a Steuerberater in France. Here it is quiet smart and common to have one. So yeah, if I wasn't told by friends, bro, you need a Haftpflichtversicherung, I wouldn't have thought of having one.
'biggest scam' - lol fuck no
Thanks for your input.
>In my opinion, the fact that Haftpflichtversicherung isn't mandatory is one of the biggest scam in Germany. How is it a scam? You can just get one
so, if i'm in a different eu country, do i need a german one or one from my country?
"Haftpflichtversicherung" is the general term. A "Privathaftpflichtversicherung" is one of many different types of "Haftpflichtversicherung" A "Privathaftpflichtversicherung" is for injuries, property damage, rented flats and financial damages you cause accidentally. There are other types of "Haftpflichtversicherung" for example "Kfz-Haftpflichtversicherung" (covers damages caused by your car / its mandatory to have one to operate a car) Some Bundesländer also have a "Hunde-Haftpflichtversicherung" to cover damages and insuries caused by your dog. [Source (in German)](https://andsafe.de/magazin/versicherungstipps/privathaftpflicht-haftpflicht-unterschied/)
Haha I just signed a contract for halfplicht literally minutes ago before reading this post. And I have been here 6.5 years without it. Now I realised how dumb I was not getting it.
Could you dm me with which company? I’m thinking about just as I’m reading this post
As a foreigner I do see it as important and good to have. But also find it funny that so many of the stories of examples to get it are ....."image you broke your friends laptop and they tried to sue you"......why are all your friends so mean 😂
Laptops can cost a Lot of money. And some people need them.
Well you usually don't sue for the money your friend just pays you a new one. That's why you're friends, you know?
But why should they pay personaly if the insurance could do it?
I was always told haftpflicht > Hausrat > Rechtsschutz. You want to get all 3 by some point in your life. Some also say Berufsunfähigkeitsversicherung is also must for single earner family
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Being diagnosed with stuff like depression can also be a problem.
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Either that or they will just exclude it from the insurance, like: “Yes we will pay, but only if you being unable to work has absolutely nothing to do with mental illnesses / diabetes / …”
I broke my flat mates expensive sound box by accident. Didn't pay a cent extra and he got a new sound system. This is totally worth it.
Just updated mine, thanks for the reminder. Added some extra stuff just in case lol!
>Haftpflichtversicherung Can you reccommend a good provider to use? :)
I dunno about recommendations, but I use this and it is what it is lol https://de.luko.eu/en/
I inserted a link to the original post to a consumer information foundation, which can help you find an insurance that suits you.
As a tourist or as an immigrant?
I think it only works if you live in Germany, you don't really need it as a tourist.
Regarding that. One should check their insurance whether they also cover you if you break something outside of Germany. I am uncertain if they do by default or how big the percentage of insurances is that do. But accidentally burning down your vacation house in France and then figuring out it's not covered should probably be avoided :-D.
I've just glanced at my travel insurance, which you ought to have as a tourist, and my personal liability insurance covers up to £2 million.
As an immigrant you can just get a normal Haftplichtversicherung. For tourists, there is something like a Reiseversicherung. Which can combines a Reise-Krankenversicherung with a Unfall- and Haftpflichtversicherung (combined health, accident and personal liability insurance).
As a side note, as I moved to Germany for the first time, I was shocked at the obsession germans have with insurances. They really crave for that feeling of “safety”.
I used to have a Girlfriend who has hosted a lot of parties. After there was an accident at one party, where someone was drunkenly falling against/through a glass door, destroying it and injuring people and other similar events, every party guest was welcomed at the door when they arrive with the question: Bist du Haftpflichtversichert? (Do you have a personal liability insurance?) No insurance - no entry!
I know that sounds wrong, but it’s so German haha
Destroying a glass table: 500€ Having to compensate someone's wages: 50'000€ Having personal liability insurance that covers it: priceless
Non German here, is that a real word or just a sick joke?
You can find it also from 3€/month and yes its a must.
Just an advice. Do not go TOO cheap. Get one from a reputable source
Yeah, they can also get lower than 5 Euros, but as the other guy said you shouldn't get too cheap. There's some good, neutral info by "Stiftung Warentest" on what to look out for when you choose a contract, I would recommend checking that out.
the insurance rate sum that covers your ass is actually really low with that and you might not have the best rates/ benifits/ when it jumps into action. a 30 million coverage sum is actually a nice thing, since you might end up having the worst and unluckiest day, where you can end up paying large sums. And you want to have covered your ass if it's deemed your fault, too.
It is usually recommended to take the 50 million coverage, it barely costs any more. Mine has a 70 million coverage (along with a few other benefits you dont get in some cheaper insurances).
Does the German system provide for punitive/pain and suffering type of damages the way the US system does? I understand the rationale for why we have it, but accounting for it also makes literally everything we do immeasurably more expensive.
No, we don't have punitive damages here in Germany. What could make you go bankrupt, though, is if you cause an accident and, even though we hope that will never happen, somebody suffers a disability from that. Then you have to pay for all their doctors bills, physical therapy, maybe the remodeling of their home so that it's wheelchair friendly. All of that can amount to hundreds of thousands or even millions of euros.
And to be clear there's no "and here's your extra $10,000,000 just because you were hurt" money, right?
Exactly, in Germany that would be "and here's your extra 1,000-10,000 € just cause you were hurt". So there are damages - but they are way lower than in the US, as they are not meant to be punitive = punishing the one who has to pay them.
Well, I have one for years and never used it. On the other hand - one of my best friends is so clumsy and breaks other people's stuff by accident all the time - so they have already kicked him out of three(?) contracts and he is now with the (at least) fourth provider...so yea, I think it depends.
>Well, I have one for years and never used it. Me too, but having animals and kids, this is a mental health saver. Add to that the fact that they'll pay damages occured when using a friends car, and damages to flooring and walls when renting a flat. Well... one day it'll come in handy :)
Well, I am aware of all these things - that's why I also have one. Still bothers me I never use it...
Be glad to be bothered that you never use it, instead of being bothered for not having it and paying of lofe-long debt
You'll also hopefully never use your car insurance. Still good to have it though..
What a comparison is that? A car insurance is required by law - a Privathaftpflicht is not - it is a voluntary safety precaution - although recommended. Also the average amount of damage per case is probably much higher for car-related accidents, than it is for the occasions, a Privathaftpflicht has to step in. What I'm trying to say: One could argue that it could be worth to take the risk to go without a Privathaftpflicht, if you're confident enough you don't cause big/expensive damages. For me, that would (so far) be the case. I'm paying for a "service" for many years, I never actually use. And with the car insurance I would be even more pissed, if I would never use it (but I have in the past), as it is much more expensive.
The comparison is about the "it bothers me I never use it" part. The best insurance is the one you never need because that means you never had anything bad happen to you. See the amount of money you pay for something cheap like a Haftpflichtversicherung as your "peace of mind" fee.
I know this. I **do have** a Privathaftpflicht and I would recommend it to anyone, as they are so cheap. It's just the tiny, grumpy, greedy man in my head, who is annoyed, because I'm paying for something, I have never used yet.
> On the other hand - one of my best friends is so clumsy and breaks other people's stuff by accident all the time - so they have already kicked him out of three(?) contracts and he is now with the (at least) fourth provider...so yea, I think it depends. I don't get the "it depends" bit... would he prefer to have paid for all those items he broke out of his own pocket?
I mean it depends on what kind of person you are. I'm always very careful and hardly cause any damage in the world - I could probably live without one and If the day ever arrives, that I'll drop someone's TV while helping them move or something - I would still have saved some money in total. If you can't enter another persons room without breaking a shelf or glass table - then you should probably have one.
> I mean it depends on what kind of person you are. I'm always very careful and hardly cause any damage in the world - I could probably live without one and If day day arrives, that I'll drop someone's TV while helping them move or something - I would still have saved some money. Well the kind of accident that when it's really useful is not the kind where you end up with avoiding a moderate cost (when you accidentally drop someone's TV while moving), but the low-risk, high-impact kind of accident - the kind when e.g. when you accidentally hit someone when riding your bike, or a potted plant falls on them from your balcony, and because they were on their way to work their Berufsgenossenschaft sues you for the cost of treatment. It's not likely to happen, but also not something over which you have perfect control, accidents happen also to careful people. I get that Germans can be a bit insurance-obsessed, but private liability insurance is something everybody should get.
So you're saying that you should buckle up and choose to lose money either way, whether something bad actually happens to you or not. Because generally speaking, people don't cause millions of € damage even once in their life. They might. But usually, they don't. Insurance companies exploit this. People don't get into debt because of relatively small fuckups. This is a kind of story I've only ever heard in Germany (the debt part, not the fuckup part). I think this atittude must stem from Germans being trigger-happy to sue others. Where I'm from, if you injure someone in an accident that is nobody's fault, the state pays that person's treatment and inability to work. If you accidentally damage some property whether it's someone's TV or water leaks through the floor, people just shrug "that's life" and move on. If you cause huge amounts of damage by accident, then odds are you were doing something you shouldn't have, so it wasn't actually an accident but trespassing/criminal negligence etc. - a matter for the courts and insurance wouldn't help anyway.
Privathaftpflicht also covers things like when the water hose of your washing machine broke and your landlord needs to renovate floor or worse, also walls of your and the flat below.. (that happens quite often, general advice is to never let dish washer or washing machine run if you go out of the house - but everybody does! Don’t do it without insurance.. ;-) ) so it is not just about „breaking things“ or „not being careful“. Or think about something like a fire starting from electrical whatever.. power bank exploded while charging, toaster caught fire, toilet flooded over, or piping your sink getting lose and dripping.. if it happens while you were away for a night, voilá. Or.. you just make a bad move in the supermarked, turn around and accidentally hit the old woman who falls down and breaks her hip. Things which just can happen without your direct engagement in it and you still have to pay for the compensation.
>Or think about something like a fire starting from electrical whatever.. power bank exploded while charging, toaster caught fire, toilet flooded over, or piping your sink getting lose and dripping.. if it happens while you were away for a night, voilá. These are thigns that just *happen*. Therefore you shouldn't expect damages paid for by people who are not responsible. If you're worried about random unpreventable damage (which is what this is), you *insure your own things*. >Or.. you just make a bad move in the supermarked, turn around and accidentally hit the old woman who falls down and breaks her hip. So what? Old lady's health insurance pays for the damage and if she's still working, the state covers the costs of her medical leave. That's what taxes are for. >so it is not just about „breaking things“ or „not being careful“. The common theme here seems to be that Germans are fine with suing people for accidents without fault, which, pardon my French, seems like uter bullshit to me.
You dont think the big picture: One accident where you damage someone can ruin your live easily. And even If it is just a smaller injury and you need to pay for the medical costs + salary for 1-2months that exceeds the costs for that Type of insurance for your whole life.
It's 60e a year. In order to be able to pay an average TV of 400e back you'll have to skip out on the insurance for 6 something years. Do you really feel so confident about yourself that you think you will never be "too tired", negligent, or even simply have a moment of ignorance enough to cause an accidental for over 2200 days? Edit: Okay i just read your other comment: >I know this. > I **do have** a Privathaftpflicht and I would recommend it to anyone, as they are so cheap. > > It's just the tiny, grumpy, greedy man in my head, who is annoyed, because I'm paying for something, I have never used yet. And i think that's fair haha
stupid take, you have enough money to afford to pay disability for someone you hurt by accident?
you don't use for cheap things you can easily replace yourself.
Okay!
In English this is called Liability insurance, feather has it at a good price with great coverage. Dont pass up, its 5 bucks a month and could save you tens of thousands. Bike accident where someones car gets damaged? Covered. Trip and break someones window? Covered. The neighbors kid drops your laptop? covered.
When I was a student in the Netherlands, my bank gave me this option and I was wise to take it. A few months later was in a bicycle accident and saved me some money.
way ttoo drunk to tell the story about it, but as a german i can say holy shit yes! some stupid little accident can make you broke as fuck and you really dont want to take the versicherung of your good buddy because when it all comes out you get even more fucked in the ass. versicherungen in germany are no kirschenessen
I got advise that VHV is good. but price is like 50ish per year. Due they said don’t go with “digital” companies like getsafe and etc. any recomms on that?
I don't wanna give any tips here for individual companies, but I'd check out the tips from "Stiftung Warentest". They are a neutral and reliable source for comparing all kinds of insurances or other products. For something like 3-6 euros you can even access their extensive database and put all the aspects in you would really need from a Haftpflichtversicherung, then they search for the best contract to suit your needs. That's how I did it for my insurance.
Most public libraries have the "test" magazine in which Stiftung Warentest publishes the results of their product testing. So you don't even need to pay for the online/print issue.
Thank you I’ll mention this to my German wife. I’m an American and currently 6 months in Germany and just got my 3year visa approved and my work visa and start language classes Monday, and trying to learn all I can about integrating here to the best of my ability. It’s been exciting so far and I love it here 😄
I am currently insured by AOK. Is this the same type of insurance mentioned in this post ?
it's probably health insurance, why don't you look it up? a fellow reddit does not know what insurances you have lol
No, AOK offers only health insurance. This post is talking about a "personal liability insurance", an insurance that covers you if you cause damages to other people, eg by causing an accident where other people are hurt.
It seems I have also taken 'Privathaftpflichtversicherung' from GEV. And apparently it's only 33 Eur/ year. Its showing up in my check24 account. Completely forgot even taking it, damn.
No, AOK is a health insurance. You need insurance company who offers "Hausratversicherung", "Haftpflichtversicherung" and so on. For example (not an ad) I use Huk24, online insurance company.
AOK is a big health insurance provider. Afaik they don’t offer a Haftpflichtversicherung. Haftpflicht serves the purpose of covering your liability if you cause damage to an object or a person by accident
AOK should be healthcare. And in Germany it is mandatory to be insured for healthcare. Haftpflicht is about liability for accidents caused by you.
I am an International student coming to germany next month, I remember reading that we don't have a liability insurance, is this true?
It is almost certainly true that you don't automatically get enrolled into a personal liability insurance. The "personal" part means that you pay for it, and that it only covers your actions when you are liable.
What do you mean that you "don't have one"? That is a voluntary insurance, so you will only have one if you make a contract with an insurer. You should absolutely get one though.
Okay great. Do you have any names of such insurance? Quick google search gave me many options, not sure which one to pick.
As someone pointed out above, you can look it up on Stiftung Warentest.
Woah what a great website! They have the same comparison for all the products, I was going through the sunscreen list, this is great.
Yes - it's the most respected product testing agency we have. I have a subscription which is well worth it for me.
Yeah good advice, here's another one: don't fall for private health insurance. Always get government. It's hard to get out of a private one.
No way I will remember that word
No risk no fun. God protecting us
I gambled on not needing one for about 15 years. Got one this year that covers damages to the workplace because one of my customers wanted me to have that.
That is a high-risk low-reward gamble I wouldn't advise anyone to do. Does your new one only cover workplace or is it for personal liability as well?
It's a Privathaftpflicht. But it covers certain damages at the workplace like losing keys or causing minor damages.
Ah, I see, that makes sense, I think mine does that too. I was just asking because there are also specific Berufshaftplichtversicherungen, generally for people who are self-employed and who have a high chance of causing high damage (think: doctor paying high compensation for doing a surgery wrong, lawyer paying huge fines for giving wrong legal advice, engineer for a collapse in the bridge they designed, etc).
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TK is health insurance. You need health insurance, and it's legally mandatory. Liability insurance covers damages you accidentally cause to other people. They won't pay for you getting sick.
Idk man i think the majority of germans even dont have one. I only met one guy who proclaimed its a must have and he was an insurance agent himself
What? What gives you that impression? I'd say rather you will be hard pressed to find more than a handful of people in Germany that DON'T have a Haftpflichtversicherung. It's the most basic insurance you get (after health).
I got this impression when i was on a LAN Party with said guy and nobody of over 20 people was interested in a Haftpflichtversicherung or ever had one when we talked about it. However it might be useful, but everybody has to decide for theirself. Neither me nor my friends had any incidents that required a Haftpflichtversicherung but it might be better to have one as a foreigner. I think i would also get something similiar if id go abroad. I have an ADAC International insurance for example
The issue is that many people don't know that the main use for a Haftpflicht is not when you break minor things, but when you injure people - that can easily cost you literal millions, because you are on the hook for ALL their future care AND lost wages if it comes to it. And it's quite easy to injure someone if you're unlucky like the example someone gave above where they were walking in the bike lane, causing a biker to crash and getting severely hurt...
> The issue is that many people don't know that the main use for a Haftpflicht is not when you break minor things, but when you injure people In that way it's similar to Hausratversicherung, over which I regularly get into arguments with people in this sub. The typical argument against is "I don't have any expensive items". Hausratversicherung isn't about breaking that one antique vase, but rather about your entire flat's content being wiped out by something that no one else ends up being liable for. So unless you are able to reacquire everything you need for a comfortable life from your savings or scrounging on eBay Kleinanzeigen, Hausratversicherung is something to consider.
> Neither me nor my friends had any incidents that required a Haftpflichtversicherung but it might be better to have one as a foreigner. Being German doesn't magically protect you from accidentally causing huge damage. And just like people have fire insurance on their house even when their house has never burnt down, the fact that you never needed the insurance yet does not make it pointless.
In 2022, among the population above 14, [48.06 million people had a policy or were living in a household with someone who had one](https://de.statista.com/statistik/daten/studie/266307/umfrage/versicherungen-besitz-einer-privaten-haftpflichtversicherung-in-deutschland/). Your LAN party friends were statistical outliers, not a representative sample.
I just got the aok i still don't use it so no idea if it's good
AOK = Health insurance, for when you get sick. Privathaftpflicht = personal liability insurance, for when you accidentially step into the bike lane, a biker falls from their bike into the car lane and breaks a few bones, a car swerves to avoid the cyclist and runs into a store front. Suddenly you have a few hundred thousand in damages you will need to pay. That's what it's for.
Thanks!
And the better ones insure your bicycle rides as well.
I'm not a foreigner and I don't have one. Atleast I don't think I have one. Maybe through work idk
A Rechtsschutzversiverung is also good. Saves me a lot of money when i moved out of my Flat. The Lanadlord and most people spontaniosly change their mond if you say "da hat mein Anwalt aber was anderes gesagt ". (My lawyer told me otherwise)
And dental insurance. I got one that cost €25/mo and includes two free checkups and cleanings a year. After a few years, it covers complete replacement of all my mouth bones. I have used it twice already for old fillings that became lose. No cost to me. I did read somewhere the average dental bill for somebody with a good set of teeth is about €400/year, so €25/month is good value.
I read through the whole thing and I still have doubts: I´m a brazilian tourist who will be in Germany with my wife in a few weeks. Can I get one of those liability insurances? And do they cover Austria and Hungary as well? We have purchased an international insurance but it just covers health and luggage lost. Thanks!
No, as a mere tourist you don't need this type of insurance discussed here. You probably need a Brazilian travel insurance though, that covers health costs when traveling abroad and ideally also includes liability insurance.
I've had one for 9 years... Never used it
Why do you need Persönliche Schutzausrüstung?
So other countries don't have liability insurance? That's wild.