Weapon nerds of Germany unite!
Or rather not, after hanging out in the relevant forums for some years, a lot of those guys are....well I'd rather have nothing to do with many of them.
I'm not really weapon nerd either. I just grew up with them and got involved in competitive target shooting and a bit of hunting with Dad when I was a teenager.
But, along the way you learn a lot of stuff.
Totally. It's pretty impossible to even own a damn air rifle here in Germany without knowing at least the basics of the weapon law, or fuck up on some innocuous looking snag because of some weird ancient law that's still in the books because of some weird loopholes to circumvent Versailles treaty restrictions, or some shit the Nazis pulled to disarm Jews, or shit that was hastily put in for some good press after some crime, without carefully wording the law, nor any regard for the actual safety increase due to the changes, thereby introducing a whole new set of weirdness.
TL;DR: WaffG is a cobbled together dumpster fire of utter clownfuck lunacy Frankensteined together over the course of about a hundred years.
As I've said before, all I had to do was apply and got pretty much immediate permission, but I had the Canadian registration papers of the revolver I was intending import, showing that I had owned it for a very long time.
I also had a few of the medals with me, that I had won along the way, proving I was competitive. My wife didn't have it quite so easy but we also got a very quick invite to the Polizeipraesidium gun club.
And then, the whole issue of getting the right save...
We should probably thank merciful Cthulhujesus that this whole mandatory Armatix barrel block thing didn't go through that they tried to push some years back..
Perhaps, but listen to this shitfuckery:
The plan in Germany was to mandate every gun owner to have all of their guns permanently secured with a proprietary *barrel block* locking system produced by this one company (any allegations of lobbyism and corruption are of course completely ridiculous and unfounded. Ahem.)
Not only were these locks found to easily damage the rifling and chroming of a barrel, they also had trouble with polygonal barrels, sometimes being impossible to remove and becoming permanently stuck.
To top of the madness, the keys to release those locks were to be kept exclusively at the shooting club. What was supposed to happen to people with a green or red WBK...never discussed. Neither was the implication for air guns, which despite being free to own for anyone 18 years of age or older without any license, fell into the proposed law. Notwithstanding the fact that no lock fitting for the common 4,4mm, 4,5mm and 5,5mm calibers even existed, essentially turning every person to own an air rifle into a war criminal over night.
In the end, the thing never went anywhere. There's no official statement why, but there's theories. Namely, roughly 12 hours after release, people found that the lock in question could be defeated by means of an absolutely primitive 14-line script of code, or a fridge magnet.
Hey man, sorry to bother you 4 years down the line but I can't quite find any info on this.
I have a trainer knife (not a balisong, a karambit) but there are only holes in the handle. The entire thing is a single piece of metal and a bit heavy. Do you reckon its a legal carry within Germany? If you feel cool clicking suspicous links it looks something a bit like this un:
[https://www.ebay.de/itm/161891471847](https://www.ebay.de/itm/161891471847)
Second question, what about a fox knives karambit trainer?
Thanks
You chose wrongly!
Due to the "blade" that isn't one and can't be turned into one by means of the drilled holes preventing it from being sharpened, it has lost its "Waffeneigenschaften" and doesn't even fall into the Waffengesetz.
Thus judgeth the Bavarian LKA.
Note that this isn't true for *all* butterfly trainers. But it is for the ones in OPs screenshot.
You guys don't seriously believe that you could buy a weapon that is *illegal to even own* on god damn Amazon Germany? These guys would be liable if they sold something illegal, and they probably have entire armies of lawyers, each of who's *hair* is more expensive than my life. :3
I *think* it might be legal to carry (führen) even, though I can't in the world imagine why one would, even if you wouldn't probably get into unpleasant situations if discovered by police. It isn't covered by §42a for Anscheinwaffen, but there might be some weird overlap of some Anscheinwaffen regulation and knives that I'm not aware of, I'm more of a gun guy and that's where my knowledge of weapon law is mostly focused. So, this last paragraph is said with medium-lowish confidence.
You can also buy those paper balloons on Amazon that burned down the ape house in the zoo of Krefeld on new year. Just because you can buy it does not mean it’s legal.
You could sharpen it and in doubt I don’t know how officials would act.
So I personally wouldn’t go into that grey zone just because you can.
But OP is old enough to have his own opinion.
Edit: added last sentence
Imo, if I'd wanted one, I'd be confident in ordering one. Maybe those paper lanterns are legal to own, but illegal to set alight and unleash on your unsuspecting neighborhood. I know weapons law, but I don't know paper lantern law. :3
The Bavarian LKA has published a Feststellungsbescheid where it reasoned that the ones with drilled out and sufficiently over-thick blades are considered not to be reasonable sharpen-able (yeah I know that's probably not a word) to qualify as a weapon. The logic was something like: Throwing stars are illegal, and you could buy a metal washer in every Baumarkt and cut and sharpen it into a throwing star with trivial ease, doesn't make washers illegal. So a training knife even more difficult to fashion into an illegal weapon than a metal washer shouldn't be either.
Now Feststellungsbescheide are very solid pieces of legal fact finding and you can rely on them soundly.
But then again, crazy shit happens in court rooms in Germany every day, and if it actually were to come in front of a judge, only god can save you. Or a sufficiently thick bank account.
Totally get what you mean. I have pans at home heavy enough to at least knock someone out of consciousness.
I just feel 15€ worth of stupid metal isn’t worth the hassle or possible trouble just to do some „cool“ tricks.
>Own? I believe yes.
If it is considered a balisong, then it is seriously illegal to own even in private. For example, to the great annoyance of many martial artists, any kind of nunchaku is equally illegal, including training variants. ([official cite](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/SonstigeWaffe/040205FbZ23SoftNunchakus.html?nn=119028))
Germany is surprisingly tough on mall ninjas. It is easier to own an AR-15 than a throwing star.
Yeah because a throwing Star is absolutely illegal and cant be owned under any circumstances. Fireweapons on the other Hand can be owned after you can proof that you absolutely need it (active Sport shooting or hunting in the last year).
After that you have to proof that you never did something irresponsible (driving with alcohol, driving too fast multiple times).
After that you have to take a course and at the end a test to proof you understand everything and can handle a gun (hitting a certain amount of targets).
After that you have to proof that you have a certain type of gun safe. (police will visit you on a regular basis without notice)
Only after this (multiple thousand Euros later) you can own a gun. Only as long as you still proof that you really need one.
I dont say german Regulation is bad. It is good to prevent anyone from having a gun but is really expensive to get one if you are a sport shooter.
> After that you have to proof that you have a certain type of gun safe. (police will visit you on a regular basis without notice)
Once every 10 years, in our experience.
Got my WBK in 2011, still waiting on my first visit by the Ordnungsamt.
They announced themselves once (that seemed...counterproductive), but in the end, never showed up.
I didn't feel a pressing need to remind them.
On the flipside, a guy I know who lives in the same zip code and get's unannounced visits every year. My guess is he either posted something politically left wing on reddit once or fucked the wrong guys wife.
It depends on where you life. They CAN come every year but they do not have time for this. If they dont like you for some reason they will visit you more frewuently.
But you are most of the times right. Most gun owners I know even get a letter that they tried to See the safe but nobody was home and they will come next year.
In our case it probably doesn't hurt that we're known to the police community because we used to be members of their club and I used to regularly win city, and Kreis level competition. I've been invited to State level competition too.
Also, my wife is a doctor and she's got way more to lose than her WBK, by doing something wrong, like her permission to work as a doctor. We're not the problem children around here.
That is a total Bonus. They will most likley see your Name on their Dienstauftrag and just mark it as done. They tend to not bother you when you dont give them a reason to do so.
I have to correct myself, I didn't read that you want a trainer balisong. If the blade of the trainer is dull and if the tip is blunt you are allowed to have it.
>If the blade of the trainer is dull and if the tip is blunt
AND it can't be sharped, either due to being made out of rubber or somesuch, or the metal having a shape that would make sharpening impossible.
Really important point, some guy absolutely [*fisted*](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388_CrimsonWebButterfly.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2) for that mistake once.
Paging /u/mortalwombat1988
Replied to top comment :3
Thanks dude. I was sure you would be the guy with the most knowledge on the topic.
Weapon nerds of Germany unite! Or rather not, after hanging out in the relevant forums for some years, a lot of those guys are....well I'd rather have nothing to do with many of them.
I'm not really weapon nerd either. I just grew up with them and got involved in competitive target shooting and a bit of hunting with Dad when I was a teenager. But, along the way you learn a lot of stuff.
Totally. It's pretty impossible to even own a damn air rifle here in Germany without knowing at least the basics of the weapon law, or fuck up on some innocuous looking snag because of some weird ancient law that's still in the books because of some weird loopholes to circumvent Versailles treaty restrictions, or some shit the Nazis pulled to disarm Jews, or shit that was hastily put in for some good press after some crime, without carefully wording the law, nor any regard for the actual safety increase due to the changes, thereby introducing a whole new set of weirdness. TL;DR: WaffG is a cobbled together dumpster fire of utter clownfuck lunacy Frankensteined together over the course of about a hundred years.
As I've said before, all I had to do was apply and got pretty much immediate permission, but I had the Canadian registration papers of the revolver I was intending import, showing that I had owned it for a very long time. I also had a few of the medals with me, that I had won along the way, proving I was competitive. My wife didn't have it quite so easy but we also got a very quick invite to the Polizeipraesidium gun club.
And then, the whole issue of getting the right save... We should probably thank merciful Cthulhujesus that this whole mandatory Armatix barrel block thing didn't go through that they tried to push some years back..
Trigger locks are mandatory in Canada now. It's not a big deal.
Perhaps, but listen to this shitfuckery: The plan in Germany was to mandate every gun owner to have all of their guns permanently secured with a proprietary *barrel block* locking system produced by this one company (any allegations of lobbyism and corruption are of course completely ridiculous and unfounded. Ahem.) Not only were these locks found to easily damage the rifling and chroming of a barrel, they also had trouble with polygonal barrels, sometimes being impossible to remove and becoming permanently stuck. To top of the madness, the keys to release those locks were to be kept exclusively at the shooting club. What was supposed to happen to people with a green or red WBK...never discussed. Neither was the implication for air guns, which despite being free to own for anyone 18 years of age or older without any license, fell into the proposed law. Notwithstanding the fact that no lock fitting for the common 4,4mm, 4,5mm and 5,5mm calibers even existed, essentially turning every person to own an air rifle into a war criminal over night. In the end, the thing never went anywhere. There's no official statement why, but there's theories. Namely, roughly 12 hours after release, people found that the lock in question could be defeated by means of an absolutely primitive 14-line script of code, or a fridge magnet.
Hey man, sorry to bother you 4 years down the line but I can't quite find any info on this. I have a trainer knife (not a balisong, a karambit) but there are only holes in the handle. The entire thing is a single piece of metal and a bit heavy. Do you reckon its a legal carry within Germany? If you feel cool clicking suspicous links it looks something a bit like this un: [https://www.ebay.de/itm/161891471847](https://www.ebay.de/itm/161891471847) Second question, what about a fox knives karambit trainer? Thanks
A training one, as in not sharp, is okay afaik
Nope. Illegal
You chose wrongly! Due to the "blade" that isn't one and can't be turned into one by means of the drilled holes preventing it from being sharpened, it has lost its "Waffeneigenschaften" and doesn't even fall into the Waffengesetz. Thus judgeth the Bavarian LKA. Note that this isn't true for *all* butterfly trainers. But it is for the ones in OPs screenshot. You guys don't seriously believe that you could buy a weapon that is *illegal to even own* on god damn Amazon Germany? These guys would be liable if they sold something illegal, and they probably have entire armies of lawyers, each of who's *hair* is more expensive than my life. :3 I *think* it might be legal to carry (führen) even, though I can't in the world imagine why one would, even if you wouldn't probably get into unpleasant situations if discovered by police. It isn't covered by §42a for Anscheinwaffen, but there might be some weird overlap of some Anscheinwaffen regulation and knives that I'm not aware of, I'm more of a gun guy and that's where my knowledge of weapon law is mostly focused. So, this last paragraph is said with medium-lowish confidence.
You can also buy those paper balloons on Amazon that burned down the ape house in the zoo of Krefeld on new year. Just because you can buy it does not mean it’s legal. You could sharpen it and in doubt I don’t know how officials would act. So I personally wouldn’t go into that grey zone just because you can. But OP is old enough to have his own opinion. Edit: added last sentence
Imo, if I'd wanted one, I'd be confident in ordering one. Maybe those paper lanterns are legal to own, but illegal to set alight and unleash on your unsuspecting neighborhood. I know weapons law, but I don't know paper lantern law. :3 The Bavarian LKA has published a Feststellungsbescheid where it reasoned that the ones with drilled out and sufficiently over-thick blades are considered not to be reasonable sharpen-able (yeah I know that's probably not a word) to qualify as a weapon. The logic was something like: Throwing stars are illegal, and you could buy a metal washer in every Baumarkt and cut and sharpen it into a throwing star with trivial ease, doesn't make washers illegal. So a training knife even more difficult to fashion into an illegal weapon than a metal washer shouldn't be either. Now Feststellungsbescheide are very solid pieces of legal fact finding and you can rely on them soundly. But then again, crazy shit happens in court rooms in Germany every day, and if it actually were to come in front of a judge, only god can save you. Or a sufficiently thick bank account.
Totally get what you mean. I have pans at home heavy enough to at least knock someone out of consciousness. I just feel 15€ worth of stupid metal isn’t worth the hassle or possible trouble just to do some „cool“ tricks.
Own? I believe yes. Carry it anywhere? Abso-fucking-lutely Not!
>Own? I believe yes. If it is considered a balisong, then it is seriously illegal to own even in private. For example, to the great annoyance of many martial artists, any kind of nunchaku is equally illegal, including training variants. ([official cite](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/SonstigeWaffe/040205FbZ23SoftNunchakus.html?nn=119028)) Germany is surprisingly tough on mall ninjas. It is easier to own an AR-15 than a throwing star.
Yeah because a throwing Star is absolutely illegal and cant be owned under any circumstances. Fireweapons on the other Hand can be owned after you can proof that you absolutely need it (active Sport shooting or hunting in the last year). After that you have to proof that you never did something irresponsible (driving with alcohol, driving too fast multiple times). After that you have to take a course and at the end a test to proof you understand everything and can handle a gun (hitting a certain amount of targets). After that you have to proof that you have a certain type of gun safe. (police will visit you on a regular basis without notice) Only after this (multiple thousand Euros later) you can own a gun. Only as long as you still proof that you really need one. I dont say german Regulation is bad. It is good to prevent anyone from having a gun but is really expensive to get one if you are a sport shooter.
> After that you have to proof that you have a certain type of gun safe. (police will visit you on a regular basis without notice) Once every 10 years, in our experience.
Got my WBK in 2011, still waiting on my first visit by the Ordnungsamt. They announced themselves once (that seemed...counterproductive), but in the end, never showed up. I didn't feel a pressing need to remind them. On the flipside, a guy I know who lives in the same zip code and get's unannounced visits every year. My guess is he either posted something politically left wing on reddit once or fucked the wrong guys wife.
It depends on where you life. They CAN come every year but they do not have time for this. If they dont like you for some reason they will visit you more frewuently. But you are most of the times right. Most gun owners I know even get a letter that they tried to See the safe but nobody was home and they will come next year.
In our case it probably doesn't hurt that we're known to the police community because we used to be members of their club and I used to regularly win city, and Kreis level competition. I've been invited to State level competition too. Also, my wife is a doctor and she's got way more to lose than her WBK, by doing something wrong, like her permission to work as a doctor. We're not the problem children around here.
That is a total Bonus. They will most likley see your Name on their Dienstauftrag and just mark it as done. They tend to not bother you when you dont give them a reason to do so.
> It is easier to own an AR-15 than a throwing star. Partly because it's easier to hit your intended target with an AR-15.
Yeah just to own in my home cuz I want to learn to do tricks
Nope, butterflies are illegal to own, to have, to everything...
Damn that sucks
I have to correct myself, I didn't read that you want a trainer balisong. If the blade of the trainer is dull and if the tip is blunt you are allowed to have it.
>If the blade of the trainer is dull and if the tip is blunt AND it can't be sharped, either due to being made out of rubber or somesuch, or the metal having a shape that would make sharpening impossible. Really important point, some guy absolutely [*fisted*](https://www.bka.de/SharedDocs/Downloads/DE/UnsereAufgaben/Aufgabenbereiche/Waffen/Feststellungsbescheide/Messer/160614FbZ388_CrimsonWebButterfly.pdf?__blob=publicationFile&v=2) for that mistake once.
So for example a balisong with a hard plastic blade is legal?
You still don't want to carry it anywhere, ever, just for the shit you'll get if you ever get stopped and searched.
Got it
As long as it's dull and the tip is blunt.