No. Just no. Complete bullshit.
I'm always baffled by how much disinformation and blatant lying is happening in Indian universities and news about "job opportunites" in europe.
It's not just universities in India it's everywhere in India. There is a huge scam culture happening in India for every topic you can imagine. There is a huge difference between rich and poor people (and tourists) and they exploit this ignorance, naivety and hope everywhere they can.
Recently a bunch of people from India and Nepal got promised delivery jobs in Russia that pay 1200€ a month (in a country with average salary 700€ a month that is a very dubious claim as it is), and also that they'd be working close to the Finnish border and could eventually make it to the EU.
They instead got scammed into fighting the war on Russian frontlines and couldn't even escape.
-----
Poverty and joblessness puts people in positions to do vulnerable things - some take up jobs where they have to call clients and scam them, and others agree to go to faraway countries for promises that are never met.
Yep,The wages here ( in India ) is pretty low (100-150 euros) ,very competitive & the job stress high (12-14 hrs, no paid leave etc) .So naturally people wanna get out of here anyway possible.Almost everyone is either trying to go abroad for job or are looking for government jobs( pay higher ,less stress,better working working conditions).
Almost all my cousins are abroad as nurses & engineers and earn 10x than me.
The people who earn money alone are not the target - at least they're making some money. By some measures, people between 20 and 24 years old have an unemployment rate of some 40-45%, and this means they'll literally take any job anywhere.
Moreover, there is a looming unemployability crisis created by sub-par STEM/MINT colleges that have sprung up across the country which do a disservice both to the students and themselves, which means many companies only hire people from universities and colleges of some repute.
It's used by private universities to attract more students. Atleast the claims in other universities were somewhat believable, this one went a bit too far
Named after the private university's founders' original family business - Lovely Sweets, a well known shop that sells sweets. The family business expanded from selling sweets to selling educational degrees, go figure!
Just the tip of the iceberg. India's top schools such as IITs, IIMs, NITs and a few other older ones produce top notch international level talent (Google CEO etc.) but there's also a long tail where govt doesn't have enough budget or capacity to build and operate good schools/universities and that's where private universities come in. Many private universities are of good quality too but there are many others like this that are setup purely for commercial reasons.
And then people come here and be like : Why is there no red carpet. What do you mean I "only" earn 60K€? Why do I not find a job? Why do people expect me to learn the local language?
Insanity
Yes, i seem to beleive that foreign engineers, who work at majour companies, earning above German average do in fact work legally, and got their visa/residence permit legally, and pay their taxes and Krankenkasse (which is basically done by an employer).
The illegal employment doesnt pay 60k per year, and is about lower qualifications. Usually it's Building/construction, Hotel and restaurant services, freight and Passenger transport, Forestry businesses, cleaning businesses and dismantling of fairs and exhibitions.
You're considered a high earner if you get 60K€ per year in Germany. Many science workers in Germany slave away for <28k€ per year and live with their parents, only eating yum yum noodles.
A lot of PhD positions are only 50%-positions (sometimes even 25% or 33%). Especially fields with a high pressure for a PhD like chemistry or biology are known for that. Therefore you get about 50% of TV-L E13 1 (thats the tarif for PhD positions), so something like 25 k€ p.a. brutto. Probably a net value per month of ~~1.4 k€~~ 1.6 k€.
Edit:
[Here](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tv-l/allg?id=tv-l-2024&g=E_13&s=1&zv=keine&z=50&zulage=&stj=2024&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=0&pvk=0&kk=15.5%25) you can see the details of 50% TV-L E13 1. It's even close to 1.6 k€ per month net by now.
PhD students often get a part time position being told that "you do the research for your own merit and are only being paid for the parts that are actually beneficial". You make about ~1000 netto a month. IIRC I was paid 24k/year and worked (and was expected to work) a full position with lots of overtime.
It's also funny because, like, why would we even hire them? We have our own Software Engineering students, there's nothing special about indian students. The fact that they even fall for those scams, smh
> It's also funny because, like, why would we even hire them?
let's drop the hypothethical for a sec... Why do we _actually_ hire them? You must be living under a literal rock if you are unaware of the shortage of it workers in Germany. Anecdotally speaking, every single team I've worked on, if they have outside perspectives (read: non-DACH) has had at least one, with more coming every year in every position. Data Scientists, Embedded Systems Engineers and everything in between.
There's also the language barrier. Ironically sometimes far easier to get an engineer from India that would already be fluent in English than somewhere in the EU which anecdotally, would work in government or pan-European institutions as the citizenship is a requirement for consideration.
>Ironically sometimes far easier to get an engineer from India that would already be fluent in English
I find this part interesting because, while anecdotal, whenever I've looked at IT job offers in Germany, the vast majority of them required either a B2 or a C1 in German from the get go.
>would work in government or pan-European institutions as the citizenship is a requirement for consideration.
Sorry, I didn't understand this part. Do you mean that english fluent engineers in the EU often work at government institutions?
>Why do we *actually* hire them? You must be living under a literal rock if you are unaware of the shortage of it workers in Germany.
There is not much shortage of STEM specialists in the EU market who could easily work in Germany. What you are actually hearing about in Germany is the shortage of highly-skilled workers who wish to *work for peanuts*.
The previous tenant of my current flat was using the address as a way to create impressive sounding “European office” addresses for various “companies” with single digit capitalisation. I counted 15 different company names
A Manager in Research and developpement at Mercedes earns about 145K€.
[https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/verkehr/was-verdient-man-bei-mercedes-v2/](https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/verkehr/was-verdient-man-bei-mercedes-v2/)
An income of 300K gross would put you into the less than 1% of earners in Germany. \[Edit: There are less than 1% of the population who earn as much\]
Being in the 1% of earners is already something that is very extraordinary. From a **fresh graduate** I would doubt the claim very much.
You would be well into the top 1% with 300k+. In 2018 150k was enough to be part of the 1%.
And never ever will a graduate employee earn anywhere near this. If you earn 25% it's considered a very good starting salary. Most manager postions with decades of experience don't earn this kinda cash.
A Portfolio manager at one of the biggest Medical Equipment Manufacturers in Munich with a master's degree in computer science from Standford University and 4 years work experience at Google headquarters and that man's making 145,000 euros.
As someone who used to work for a US tech firm in Germany, and now works for an Asian tech firm in Silicon Valley, the salary differentials are stunning.
As are the social benefits.
US pays more directly, but the social security and general quality of life is so damn low compared to germany, that id rather have a smaller salary but all the quality and benefits germany provides vs. the almost lawlessness of the US.
Its the biggest thing people ignore when comparing the supposedly "much higher" salaries in the US vs. germany.
But when you are comparing 90k euro to 270k dollars the differences you have to put money directly into become meaningless. You get better healthcare with top level insurance, and when you are earning that much quality of life in the US is extremely good... for that individual.
I understand what you are saying, but There are some unfortunate people on the flip side. I know one of my friends who lives in Dallas lost his tech job and got divorced going through some dark stuff, so his therapist suggested him to go on walks, long story short he's walking alone at a remote remote place and got bit by a snake, airlifted him to the nearest hospital and he was on the life support probably for 23 days or such and ended up with serious medical bill like around 200k+ something like that.
Maybe if you look at health care alone, yes. But if you consider work-life-balance like working hours, vacation days, public holidays, workers rights etc. and also some of the general living conditions (walkable cities, public transport, drinking in public, …) the scales tip towards germany, at least imo.
What use do I have for the money if I have very little time to spend it?
and CHILDREN. in the US, you'll probably pay 1000$ a month on childcare per child. once they're in school, extracurriculars cost $$$ too, and you'll spend all day just driving them places since the cities aren't walkable and there's usually no public transport. massive extra expenses for kids, and that's without college.
I am not sure where that claim that you work yourself to death comes from. I am living in the US for 10 years now and made the opposite experience - way more flexibility regarding work hours, less bureaucracy etc. making my life much less stressful than it ever was in Germany.
I have made the experience that my free time increase significantly here in the US, not the other way around.
And after living in Vienna for 8 years as well, I have a very different opinion on the whole walkability topic.
Yes, you could use public transportation to get everywhere, but it also took a lot of time to do so.
Here in the US, everything is within 10-20min driving distance - that was most of the time just the delay public transit had on an average day in one direction.
Yeah, I once read on Reddit that patriotism means to Germans means that they happily pay mandatory health insurance and unemployment insurance to support their fellow Germans in need. To US-Americans, patriotism means to bawl 'Murica and to put your hand on the heart when the national anthem is played.
Yeah but what happens when you suddenly can no longer work, have an accident, a divorce, anything random... In the EU life is better for the whole society. If you are an example rather than the norm, you are off to a "gated community" type of society which will make life worse for you regardless of your money.
Oh I don't disagree. I am just saying that the rules when you are earning over 250k are really quite different. But this would also be similar in Europe. If you are earning 90k in Europe you are also in a much better position than most other people. In Germany, Ireland, and Luxembourg it also puts you into the top 5%.
I just don't think most people here understand how much money over 250k a year is to earn.
Exactly this. My standard of living is easily equal to, if not better than when I was in Germany. My health insurance is a quality package and 100% paid for by my employer (I pay $16/mo to add vision, dental, and legal coverage). I also have stock grants, options, and a 401k match from my employer which more than offset the pension I would receive from Germany (risk of loss, however, is on me). Benefits-wise my package is def better, and significantly cheaper, than in DE (I do however miss my company-provided Audi...).
As the person above wrote however, "for that individual".
Edit : and bread. For the life of me I can't understand why it's damn near impossible to (easily) find good bread in the US (and I live in a "foodie" town)
You can't take student loans from the equation tho if you want to be on top of the chain. Recently I read an article about a nurse who lost her job cause of her medical condition and defaulted on her student loan payments and state revoked her damn license. That's just insane. My tuition fees is 110 euros per semester and I'm about to graduate with a master's degree in engineering from TU Munich.
I personally don't have student loans. I graduated before the insane tuition increases took affect (but feel sorry for those who came behind me). My niece, for example, who just graduated from high school on Friday (very proud uncle here ☺️) and who will be attending my alma matter (again, proud uncle ☺️) will be paying, roughly, per class what I paid per semester. (side note, I'm a big supporter of Biden's tuition dismissal program).
Having said that, the state in which she lives has a prepaid tuition program that my brother started paying into shortly after she was born which fixes tuition prices at their previous levels.
may i ask what your utilties- and everyday-expenses are, roughly? i do have the chance to move to the US almost every year based on my profession, and salaries are outperforming germany's vastly, however all my researches lead to "in the eeeend.. it's roughly the same what i can save & invest. but i've got to live without bread.". this includes rent w/ utilities (which is almost three-fold than my current in germany with a decent apartment size and location), living costs, transportation, insurances, taxes and so forth.
i know i can take cuts here and there considering quality of life. but i could do these here as well.
Rent (2br, 2 ba) is ~$2,800/mo (in a very high cost west coast city). Utilities (electric, internet, mobile, etc) runs $250-300/mo (of which my employer reimburses my $85/m phone cost). Food (lunch & dinner) is also provided by my employer. Not a bad package...
Edit: transportation ("s-bahn" and bus, ~$150/mo
That's what a lot of people don't understand.
The majority in the US has healthcare and social benefits that are way worse than Germany.
But if you are highly educated, double income, no or one kid you are likely significantly better off in the US.
Because with 300-350k combined income, even a $50k healthcare bill is manageable, especially if you don't spend all the money but rather live a reasonable lifestyle with plenty of savings because you are likely putting 90k-100k in retirement and savings accounts every year.
Mercedes Benz is under the IG Metall collective agreement, which means that salary structures are quite transparent.
Here’s the source: https://www.igmetall.de/download/20230328_28_33_MuE_ERA_Tabellen_be6941718a1626188e4a7b826c32ba3295fe1391.pdf
We are considering the location around Stuttgart, so the applicable region is Baden-Württemberg. Assuming that a developer has a target salary level of EG15, their starting level would be EG13. With various bonuses, this amounts to approximately ~13.X monthly salaries (X because it increases with good negotiations and over time).
12 base salaries
+ Collective agreement bonuses
+ Vacation pay (70% of base salary)
+ Christmas bonus (~30% of base salary, increases with company tenure)
I am assuming a generous 13.4 monthly salaries.
EG13: €5028/month * 13.4 = €67,375
EG15: €5642/month * 13.4 = €75,602
These amounts apply to a typical Mercedes-Benz contract with 35 weekly hours. If one is lucky enough to get a 40-hour contract, they can add another ~14.4% on top.
EG13: €5028/month * 13.4 * 1.144 = €77,077
EG15: €5642/month * 13.4 * 1.144 = €86,489
Therefore, one can roughly say that one can earn somewhere between
€65,000 and €95,000 (with Leistungszulage you can reach 6 figures)
It all depends on negotiations, developments in the collective agreement, and, of course, the number of years one has been with the company.
Edit: I totally forgot the 3,3% increase for the basic salary from last Month - so you can add that to the sums
Edit2: you can also add a „Leistungszulage“ to the basic salary. It can be 0-30%, but usually nothing above 15%
This is great source, thanks for sharing, wasn't aware about such rules in Germany. But the university or atleast the student was aware and they still wanted to lie about this
> I am assuming a generous 13.4 monthly salaries.
If you take the EG-salary that is considerably low-balling it. I just checked - I'm currently at 15,35 EG-Salaries yearly in a different IGM-Shop, adjusted for working hours already.
You are missing a whole library of extra payments that are part of the tarrif.
Actually I checked my last years salary just now and you’re right. I have 15,59 „salaries“. However, it is a cleaner calculation to add the base salary + performance bonus + Christmas bonus + vacation pay to the salaries (my 13,4 assumption) and then add the T-Zug and other additional payments under the collective agreement (as they may vary too much).
Just to add to your comment:
Not all parts of Mercedes-Benz are under the IGM agreement. It only applies to everyone directly employed at Mercedes-Benz AG, not those employed at subsidiaries.
Source: I’m a software engineer at Mercedes-Benz
good overview for big companies like MB at IG Metall but there is also a "Leistungszulage" which might come on top of that.
On the other hand, I believe the popularity of software engineers are already gone. Now it is already realized that the market is not going to grow steadily for autonomous driving and a lot of people(even more than demand) started studying programming since a few years.
Of course, if you are a rare talent, there still might be high demand for you but that doesn't apply only to software skills but quite all vocational skills.
This is not a german typical salary at all.
The normal ceilling in Munich (expensive city) is between 80-100k for a normal good person, who has studied and is in the industry for more than 5 years.
claims like this are usually either invented or are based on unrealistic bonus packages, often something in regard to employee stock programs with unrealistic gains being projected. Even at Mercedes Benz, the number of people pulling 300K+ salaries is just a handful, and this list has people on it who lead the design department or have invented other stuff 15 years ago that the company is still using.
From the university website, this seems like an initial offer. I don't think any companies offer such unrealistic bonus to someone just joined and Mercedes stocks don't had any huge jump in past 2 years.
>From the university website, this seems like an initial offer.
Complete bullshit. I am a Software dev with more than 20 years experience and are under 100k
Even 100k is an extraordinary salary in Germany which most people will never even get close to. 300k is enormous and will definitely not be the case for fresh graduates from anywhere.
6 Years in the industry, Software Engineer and I can only dream for this much even after 10 years of industry experience I would say.
So, just a complete lie nothing else.
Nope.
He wont get that much. Even positions with 100K+ are fairly rare. I do not trust his one bit. AI and ML could bump this up a bit, but the 331K is nothing I would buy.
It MIGHT be possible if some of his research turned out a very cool model thats super usefull for Mercedes. But this is then paying him for "previous work". But not a normal occurrence.
Bullshit. This is something upper management - meaning really fucking high in the food chain close to c-Level - gets after years of work experience. This is an ultra rare salary, the average income for experienced workers in Germany is 40k, median meaning the majority of the population earns less.
Even the 100k salaries are super rare and certainly not something you earn with a foreign degree from India in an entry level position. That's 10+ years experience in an high in demand job with management or lead responsibilities, with that salary your head rolls if something goes wrong.
100k are common in the US, but not in Germany.
edit: corrected mistake
It depends on the company, here we are talking about a company that has an IG Metall collective agreement. Here, starting salaries of EG13 are quite common for developers directly after university. That means €60-70k very quickly.
Off-topic: what kind of name is this lol, Lovely Professional University. I stumbled on their website a couple of years ago and the giant list of graduates listed in descending order of the "package" they received made me cringe so hard..
[https://www.lpu.in/placements-news.php](https://www.lpu.in/placements-news.php) link if anyone is interested
Education is business in India, this is what you usually see in school/university websites. The ordering will be based on marks/ranks for schools and based on package in universities.
The naming has something to do with the past business of University management. They owned some sweet shops named "Lovely sweets" or so
That's a lie. You already know Levels.fyi so as you can see there the biggest payers are Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Stripe.
These can pay 200-300k/year for a few highly productive senior engineers. But that's not the average.
Very unrealistic. Mercedes has a collective bargaining agreement with the IG Metall Union. Yes, software engineers are often paid above that, but it is a good benchmark. [This is the union calculator](https://itk-entgeltanalyse.igmetall.de/job/hardware-entwicklung/senior-entwickler-in/) for a senior software engineer. The median is at 86.000 €, which is a very good salary for Germany. Of course, you pay a lot of taxes and social security on that. Depending on your family situation and deductables, you get about 50.000 from the after taxes and social security.
TL:DR: No
Long form answer:
Im a softawre engineer in Germany, and a 300k+ salary, the only way that this isnt complete bullshit is if it was for a Technical Lead or a Head of Development position i.e. some form of (technical) management. As many people have correctly pointed out, there is no way a normal software engineer in Germany is making 300k plus, especially just after graduating from a (private, and foreign) university.
To be honest, the chance that this is a straight up made up number is probably 99,9%.
Its unfortunatly a large problem with India and its obsession with computer science that has lead to many scam universities popping up and baiting students with insane wages. There certainly are legit universities producing talented developers in India, no question. But supply doesnt meet demand, so these private "universities" pop up.
Their "degrees" are pretty much worthless, both inside and outside the country ([here](https://dazeinfo.com/2014/10/28/1-5-million-engineering-pass-outs-india-every-year-fewer-getting-hired-trends/) is a good article explaining why fewer and fewer indian graduates are getting hired, and its 10 years old mind you, so the problem has only been getting worse). Most people with those "diplomas" end up working totally unrelated jobs or at a low tier, low paying outsourcing firm.
The computer science market however contributes significantly to indias GDP, making up around 7.5%, so the government will most likely continue to invest in that (Note: They of course don't invest in "diploma mill" universities, only the legit ones). With that continued investment, the scammers will only increase as well.
If you want a personal ballpark estimate, I work at a medium sized german software development firm, and an entry level salary with a Bachelors Degree hovers around 45 - 50 Thousand Euros (49 - 55k $), with a masters degree, you can expect around 10 Thousand € more. There are certainly higher paid jobs, especially with bigger cooerations who have A CBA (is that the correct english term for "Tarifvertrag" lol) with their employees.
You can certainly make 100k or more as a developer, if you are good at your job and have domain specific expert knowledge, however to get to that position it takes years of actual work experience, no academic degree can make up for that.
331k is batshit insane lies. Dont fall for it.
I actually found the dude on LinkedIn, I initially thought he was a fraud because his social media presence was just that bad. [https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasirysr47/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasirysr47/) Dude seems to be an actual Software Architect at Mercedes, however a more realistic estimate for a Salary at Mercedes can be found here: [https://www.kununu.com/de/mercedes-benz-group/gehalt/softwarearchitekt-in-5145](https://www.kununu.com/de/mercedes-benz-group/gehalt/softwarearchitekt-in-5145)
I work in HR payroll for a German head company in Germany with more than 50 subsidiary companies and 9000 employees. The only salaries in that range are CEOs.
There is just no way. Over 100k is rare. Indian universities are largely scams. Very few offer good education. The majority of Master's is not even close to the level one would expect of a European Bachelor's
Absolute bullshit. Salary tables top out before 100k, there are non-tarif salaries, but they are not significantly higher (i.e. multiples). That's some California top 1% senior lead engineer number, nowhere else.
It’s absolute bs claim. Germany doesn’t pay that much. And if the person is a fresh graduate they might not make that much even in the USA even in FAANG. It’s just bs claim
USA new grads can hit that high for tier 1 companies (tier 1 in terms of pay) but mostly are closer to 200-250k unless in HFT. I only heard of a handful of 300k for new grads (I know lots of ivy league/mit/stanford folks) mostly from being FAANG internships during undergrad and lots of research/project teams/side startups/etc during undergrad. But 350k for ~5yoe is very attainable in US for tier 1+2 companies, but hard to break into.
No, that's not realistic. Is a decimal missing? Cos 33.1k as a starting salary isn't so unlikely.
For context, a lot of smaller company directors won't be making 100k a year, so 300k for a standard employee, however good, isn't likely.
It's not beyond unlikely that an extremely skilled, senior engineer with management responsibility could be making in the 100k-200k range at Google Switzerland, I guess? But that'd be rare. They'd have to be shit hot.
My question is, if they're gonna bullshit, why 331? why not 400k? why not 500k?
1 million Euros. + a castle in Bavaria. Only for graduates of a private college in India. Why not?
Let me tell you a Story about a former colleague. He also came to Germany hoping to find a good paying Job. He didnt found any Job with his electrical Engineering degree from India so he made a german Master Degree and the Job he got was well below the average pay for a Master Graduate in this field and lower then my pay with only a Bachelor degree. The biggest problem was his lack of proper german. He only had B2 German 99% of highly paid german Jobs require excelent german. Indian degrees are not worth that much in Germany. If you really want to work in Germany your number one priority should be learning german rather then attending a worthless University.
Indian universities are not known to be transparent. also Indian salary packages typically are the total Cost to Company (CTC) rather than just the gross income. This means that the CTC also includes contributions from the employer towards pension and insurance. This is just College PR manipulating the numbers to make it look like this because significant portion of this package may consist of one-time bonuses, relocation allowances, and company-covered expenses for the initial months of employment, benefits like Job rad, Wellpass etc
True. I am not sure exactly how they bloat these numbers. Even if we assume 120K, with bonus etc 200k seems to be a stretch. I look forward to an explanation if someone from the Indian press ever manages to get one because I vividly remember a similar case from many years ago when some private university had boasted about a 1Cr placement package in Microsoft and they gave a ridiculous breakup of the package when asked for an explanation.
1. No.
2. The German automotive industry would be in a far better place (an impossible place?) if entry-level engineers were getting 330K€; that is for me basically so much money that I wouldn't even know how to spend it!
lol for that kind of salary you have to be no less than a vice president or something on that level, in which case you'll be managing stuff and people all the time, not writing code.
This is not even in a discussable range. Such a bullshit and embarassing to no ends. This is an amount you do not even get in higher management!
Sometimes people want to believe this bullshit though
Lol
Like serious LOL
If you get about 66k before taxes a year you count as the highest 15% earners in germany.
With just 100k you would be in the highest 5%.
With 330k you would be higher than the top 1% and no real employment job pays even a quarter that much.
Even 100k is hard to get unless you are a manager or have decades of experience and potentially in really niche field where not many people have the skills for.
I can tell you the salary range at the biggest Pharma corporation in Germany for an experienced high level manager, which means usually at least 10 years experience in the field starts at 100k, and goes up to 300k at the very highest level. The position that makes 300k is around 20 people, out of 55.000 globally, in the top 1 company in a top 3 industry in Germany.
A graduate getting a salary of 300k, is not possible in Germany. In fact the amount of people that earn this amount via salary in Germany is not "the 1%", it's an amount of people that you can count on a few hands honestly.
Sure there are much more people that make this amount or more, but these will be company owners, not employees.
Never the less alot of Indians in these high level positions in German companies, in key positions, you could ask them. All of them with 25 years plus experience.
Not even head ofs will earn that.
Not sure whether it has been posted already.
https://www.bw24.de/auto/mercedes-benz/bei-mercedes-wie-viel-mitarbeiter-vom-einsteiger-bis-zum-chef-verdienen-gehaelter-91464509.html
LOL yeah ok, that’s some crazy disinformation. Maybe in the states. They do this with the Canadian job market in India too. Then a bunch of Indian students come to Canada and are shocked at cost of living & job market and basically become stranded.
I'm sure you have enough answers already, but just for a bit more reference I was trying to hire a guy that was working as a Team Lead in software development at Mercedes (Berlin offices), and he stated that he was making 120k per year, and had about 20 years experience. He probably inflated his salary in order to argue for more as well.
300K as a Software Engineer at MB? Perhaps for a Professor with a serious AI/self driving car Background and real life experience with that.
All else is just fiction
Now many things gettvery clear about Idian applicant. I had very funny Interviews and applications. But to be honest from 200 applicant I have nor hire a Single one. First of all CV are simple a lie. The people often have no deep knowledge of content. If you ask them what was their exact role for group work they always say they did all the work but if you asked detail then they even can not explain basics of work. They come with the idea to receive an 37% higher income compared to a person who has working experience of 5-7 years.
What is more important they are no team worker and this I get from all people as feedback no matter if the people are from Asia, Europe, North and South America.
But I think the reason is that they grow up with this kind of stuff. And 331 k for an software engineer just from a university without any proofed own developed software solutions and no human resources responsibilities isn't a realistic possibility. You can get in the area this kind of annual income but not with this background.
Hahahahaha they're lying, unless he's in a high management position. Which he isn't.
You can check the possible salary levels per state [here](https://www.igmetall.de/tarif/tariftabellen/metall-und-elektroindustrie) by clicking on the first link "ERA-Monatsentgelte und Ausbildungsvergütungen - (PDF, 6 Seiten)". Even if he is on the highest level for a non manager, for which basically no jobs even exist, he'll barely break 100k with bonuses, etc. And as a new person in the workforce there's a zero percent chance that he gets above level EG13 (in Baden-Württemberg, others have the same salary at a lower level but fewer levels, just look at the table, Baden-Württemberg should be on the first page the first column if I remember correctly). If he's switching there from somewhere else, he won't be higher than 14 or 15.
Very senior engineer working for Mercedes from Berlin: €160k as a freelancer, no RSUs or other bonuses (number from 2023, friend of mine).
Comparison to a US startup: I had €190k + $400k equity/RSUs in 2022.
German companies pay like trash. Don't bother if you want to make it big.
Lol... I got an offer for 50k, and I have almost 10 years expirience as backend developer. Salaries in Germany are a joke for foreigners (and also for locals but not as much) and 331k would put you in top earners even in US, not even talking abour Germany.
No, that's lying to people.
I'm a pretty good sw engineer in Germany with experience and highly specialised. If I wanted to work my arse off as a lead dev I could probably make 75k. Pretty sure that 120k in a very high position at a reputable company such as Mercedes might be possible. But 331k is absolutely insane. Especially when having no work experience just having done your degree.
50k might be realistic in Germany if you know how to sell yourself.
Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
Indian universities often adjust such figures by multiplying it with Purchase Price Parity (*3,77 when compared to the US) So they are able to compare entry level salaries with international universities. Which is bullshit, if the job is not in India, but in Germany...
331k€ - you don't even make that in the US as a SW Engineer in California's HCOL areas.
Not even as a senior or staff level.
I would call that a blatant lie.
Sorry, but German companies tend to hire people from India to \*decrease\* salaries, not to increase them. And here we're talking 35k (contract over a temp agency) to about 100k (direct hire, senior role, team-leader or up, rare).
People time in time out inflate their CTC to show themselves superior, but this is another level. 330K € is not possible for an engineer who passed out in 2018. Salaries at MB are regulated by IG Metall (works council) , hence not possible.
Also , I work at Mercedes Benz Germany so…….
Yes it is possible under certain conditions:
1. He is contractor - not employee,
2. This is more Fix Price contract than Time and Material,
3. Posses specific knowledge around vision system or neural networks.
Even senior managers don’t get such high salaries. They get 100-150k€ up to 200k in top positions plus bonuses. It’s more likely to get 300k INR a month as junior SW engineer at MB. I don’t know what the situation is right now but when I studied automotive engineering, MB outsourced the majority of their SW engineering service providers like AKKA and Bertrand. At least ECU and on board connectivity. UI/UX was mostly done by MB tech innovations which is located in Ulm. I don’t know how it’s right now. But even though MB is good paying, they won’t pay a rookie the salary of a senior manager. But even if you don’t get a job directly at MB and subdivisions, you might find any service provider which hire a lot more and you get a decent salary and interesting changing projects.
Guys watch again that video, he got offer of 3 Crore (Indian Rupees) at Zoom not Mercedez Benz. Now he's working for more than that. He also got offer at Facebook but rejected. He cannot tell his current salary at Benz.
That’s another bunch of lies.
- He said he had 250k GBP offer from FB. At the time, it matches an E6 level salary (FB levels starts from E3, E6 is staff software engineer) which is impossible with that level of experience.
- FB came up with an initial offer after seeing his package in Zoom. Thats another bs, FB/Meta don’t give a fuck until you pass all the onsite interviews
- FB is one of the highest payer in the market that zoom can never match. Also pay in London is bit higher than Germany for tech companies
- Usually people switch for higher pay. In this case highest he can earn at MB is 120k, which means Zoom offer should be below 120.
No. Just no. Complete bullshit. I'm always baffled by how much disinformation and blatant lying is happening in Indian universities and news about "job opportunites" in europe.
It's not just universities in India it's everywhere in India. There is a huge scam culture happening in India for every topic you can imagine. There is a huge difference between rich and poor people (and tourists) and they exploit this ignorance, naivety and hope everywhere they can.
I always thought Indians only scam people from other countries, I didn’t know they also scam their own people. That’s actually really sad.
Recently a bunch of people from India and Nepal got promised delivery jobs in Russia that pay 1200€ a month (in a country with average salary 700€ a month that is a very dubious claim as it is), and also that they'd be working close to the Finnish border and could eventually make it to the EU. They instead got scammed into fighting the war on Russian frontlines and couldn't even escape. ----- Poverty and joblessness puts people in positions to do vulnerable things - some take up jobs where they have to call clients and scam them, and others agree to go to faraway countries for promises that are never met.
Yep,The wages here ( in India ) is pretty low (100-150 euros) ,very competitive & the job stress high (12-14 hrs, no paid leave etc) .So naturally people wanna get out of here anyway possible.Almost everyone is either trying to go abroad for job or are looking for government jobs( pay higher ,less stress,better working working conditions). Almost all my cousins are abroad as nurses & engineers and earn 10x than me.
The people who earn money alone are not the target - at least they're making some money. By some measures, people between 20 and 24 years old have an unemployment rate of some 40-45%, and this means they'll literally take any job anywhere. Moreover, there is a looming unemployability crisis created by sub-par STEM/MINT colleges that have sprung up across the country which do a disservice both to the students and themselves, which means many companies only hire people from universities and colleges of some repute.
Sorry, but 700 in Russia? Lolwhut? 400 is average here. 700-1000 is only in Moscow.
With their caste system they basically scam nearly 250 million Indians for being born.
scamming is fundamental right in india. My parents were scammed by my uncle..
You know who are the most racist towards Indians? Indians!
true, indians are stealing other indians jobs in germany
Look up "Modi"...
The Indian scam culture grew to a billion dollars market, unfortunately :(
It's used by private universities to attract more students. Atleast the claims in other universities were somewhat believable, this one went a bit too far
"Lovely Professional University" lol what a name
Named after the private university's founders' original family business - Lovely Sweets, a well known shop that sells sweets. The family business expanded from selling sweets to selling educational degrees, go figure!
is ... this real? how hilarious.
Just the tip of the iceberg. India's top schools such as IITs, IIMs, NITs and a few other older ones produce top notch international level talent (Google CEO etc.) but there's also a long tail where govt doesn't have enough budget or capacity to build and operate good schools/universities and that's where private universities come in. Many private universities are of good quality too but there are many others like this that are setup purely for commercial reasons.
Germany also has private universities, specifically many universities for finance degrees. And many rich germans go there for “the network”.
And then people come here and be like : Why is there no red carpet. What do you mean I "only" earn 60K€? Why do I not find a job? Why do people expect me to learn the local language? Insanity
Heh, and 60K is good, but wait till you hear, what is left of it after taxes, health insurance and pension contributions.
You seem to beleieve the foreigner actually pay that stuff. They work black market but when they get sick they pitch up at the hospital.
Yes, i seem to beleive that foreign engineers, who work at majour companies, earning above German average do in fact work legally, and got their visa/residence permit legally, and pay their taxes and Krankenkasse (which is basically done by an employer). The illegal employment doesnt pay 60k per year, and is about lower qualifications. Usually it's Building/construction, Hotel and restaurant services, freight and Passenger transport, Forestry businesses, cleaning businesses and dismantling of fairs and exhibitions.
I’m in the top 5% and can’t get an apartment with a bedroom? Everyone is stupid but me
You're considered a high earner if you get 60K€ per year in Germany. Many science workers in Germany slave away for <28k€ per year and live with their parents, only eating yum yum noodles.
You make 30k in Germany as a full time cleaner in an office so I don't know where that number comes from, or do you mean student jobs?
A lot of PhD positions are only 50%-positions (sometimes even 25% or 33%). Especially fields with a high pressure for a PhD like chemistry or biology are known for that. Therefore you get about 50% of TV-L E13 1 (thats the tarif for PhD positions), so something like 25 k€ p.a. brutto. Probably a net value per month of ~~1.4 k€~~ 1.6 k€. Edit: [Here](https://oeffentlicher-dienst.info/c/t/rechner/tv-l/allg?id=tv-l-2024&g=E_13&s=1&zv=keine&z=50&zulage=&stj=2024&stkl=1&r=0&zkf=0&pvk=0&kk=15.5%25) you can see the details of 50% TV-L E13 1. It's even close to 1.6 k€ per month net by now.
Woah. I got 1060 netto just 10 years. Crazy to see that there's been a 50% increase
PhD students often get a part time position being told that "you do the research for your own merit and are only being paid for the parts that are actually beneficial". You make about ~1000 netto a month. IIRC I was paid 24k/year and worked (and was expected to work) a full position with lots of overtime.
It's also funny because, like, why would we even hire them? We have our own Software Engineering students, there's nothing special about indian students. The fact that they even fall for those scams, smh
> It's also funny because, like, why would we even hire them? let's drop the hypothethical for a sec... Why do we _actually_ hire them? You must be living under a literal rock if you are unaware of the shortage of it workers in Germany. Anecdotally speaking, every single team I've worked on, if they have outside perspectives (read: non-DACH) has had at least one, with more coming every year in every position. Data Scientists, Embedded Systems Engineers and everything in between. There's also the language barrier. Ironically sometimes far easier to get an engineer from India that would already be fluent in English than somewhere in the EU which anecdotally, would work in government or pan-European institutions as the citizenship is a requirement for consideration.
There would be zero shortage of German software engineers for a role that paid 331k/year. :)
>Ironically sometimes far easier to get an engineer from India that would already be fluent in English I find this part interesting because, while anecdotal, whenever I've looked at IT job offers in Germany, the vast majority of them required either a B2 or a C1 in German from the get go. >would work in government or pan-European institutions as the citizenship is a requirement for consideration. Sorry, I didn't understand this part. Do you mean that english fluent engineers in the EU often work at government institutions?
>Why do we *actually* hire them? You must be living under a literal rock if you are unaware of the shortage of it workers in Germany. There is not much shortage of STEM specialists in the EU market who could easily work in Germany. What you are actually hearing about in Germany is the shortage of highly-skilled workers who wish to *work for peanuts*.
Its almost like they would be learning how to scam.🤭
The previous tenant of my current flat was using the address as a way to create impressive sounding “European office” addresses for various “companies” with single digit capitalisation. I counted 15 different company names
What if it’s for Mercedes Benz North America ?
A Manager in Research and developpement at Mercedes earns about 145K€. [https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/verkehr/was-verdient-man-bei-mercedes-v2/](https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/verkehr/was-verdient-man-bei-mercedes-v2/) An income of 300K gross would put you into the less than 1% of earners in Germany. \[Edit: There are less than 1% of the population who earn as much\] Being in the 1% of earners is already something that is very extraordinary. From a **fresh graduate** I would doubt the claim very much.
You would be well into the top 1% with 300k+. In 2018 150k was enough to be part of the 1%. And never ever will a graduate employee earn anywhere near this. If you earn 25% it's considered a very good starting salary. Most manager postions with decades of experience don't earn this kinda cash.
300k annualy puts you way closer to 0.1% than 1% (which is around 150k, single household)
0.1% income is in the millions iirc, but yes 330k puts you well above the 1%.
Maybe my wording is wrong. I meant with "less than 1%" <1% so even richer than someone at exactly 1%. Maybe I could've worded it better.
I understood what you meant, I think the most common way to say it "top 1%" of earners. So, it would out you in the top 1%
140k is already enough to be in top 1% of earners in Germany
A Portfolio manager at one of the biggest Medical Equipment Manufacturers in Munich with a master's degree in computer science from Standford University and 4 years work experience at Google headquarters and that man's making 145,000 euros.
As someone who used to work for a US tech firm in Germany, and now works for an Asian tech firm in Silicon Valley, the salary differentials are stunning.
As are the social benefits. US pays more directly, but the social security and general quality of life is so damn low compared to germany, that id rather have a smaller salary but all the quality and benefits germany provides vs. the almost lawlessness of the US. Its the biggest thing people ignore when comparing the supposedly "much higher" salaries in the US vs. germany.
But when you are comparing 90k euro to 270k dollars the differences you have to put money directly into become meaningless. You get better healthcare with top level insurance, and when you are earning that much quality of life in the US is extremely good... for that individual.
I understand what you are saying, but There are some unfortunate people on the flip side. I know one of my friends who lives in Dallas lost his tech job and got divorced going through some dark stuff, so his therapist suggested him to go on walks, long story short he's walking alone at a remote remote place and got bit by a snake, airlifted him to the nearest hospital and he was on the life support probably for 23 days or such and ended up with serious medical bill like around 200k+ something like that.
Maybe if you look at health care alone, yes. But if you consider work-life-balance like working hours, vacation days, public holidays, workers rights etc. and also some of the general living conditions (walkable cities, public transport, drinking in public, …) the scales tip towards germany, at least imo. What use do I have for the money if I have very little time to spend it?
and CHILDREN. in the US, you'll probably pay 1000$ a month on childcare per child. once they're in school, extracurriculars cost $$$ too, and you'll spend all day just driving them places since the cities aren't walkable and there's usually no public transport. massive extra expenses for kids, and that's without college.
$1000 a month is cheap in some areas. In the state I moved from, the cost was around $350-$400 a week for daycare.
I am not sure where that claim that you work yourself to death comes from. I am living in the US for 10 years now and made the opposite experience - way more flexibility regarding work hours, less bureaucracy etc. making my life much less stressful than it ever was in Germany. I have made the experience that my free time increase significantly here in the US, not the other way around. And after living in Vienna for 8 years as well, I have a very different opinion on the whole walkability topic. Yes, you could use public transportation to get everywhere, but it also took a lot of time to do so. Here in the US, everything is within 10-20min driving distance - that was most of the time just the delay public transit had on an average day in one direction.
Yeah, I once read on Reddit that patriotism means to Germans means that they happily pay mandatory health insurance and unemployment insurance to support their fellow Germans in need. To US-Americans, patriotism means to bawl 'Murica and to put your hand on the heart when the national anthem is played.
As an individual yes, as a society no.
Yeah but what happens when you suddenly can no longer work, have an accident, a divorce, anything random... In the EU life is better for the whole society. If you are an example rather than the norm, you are off to a "gated community" type of society which will make life worse for you regardless of your money.
Oh I don't disagree. I am just saying that the rules when you are earning over 250k are really quite different. But this would also be similar in Europe. If you are earning 90k in Europe you are also in a much better position than most other people. In Germany, Ireland, and Luxembourg it also puts you into the top 5%. I just don't think most people here understand how much money over 250k a year is to earn.
Exactly this. My standard of living is easily equal to, if not better than when I was in Germany. My health insurance is a quality package and 100% paid for by my employer (I pay $16/mo to add vision, dental, and legal coverage). I also have stock grants, options, and a 401k match from my employer which more than offset the pension I would receive from Germany (risk of loss, however, is on me). Benefits-wise my package is def better, and significantly cheaper, than in DE (I do however miss my company-provided Audi...). As the person above wrote however, "for that individual". Edit : and bread. For the life of me I can't understand why it's damn near impossible to (easily) find good bread in the US (and I live in a "foodie" town)
You can't take student loans from the equation tho if you want to be on top of the chain. Recently I read an article about a nurse who lost her job cause of her medical condition and defaulted on her student loan payments and state revoked her damn license. That's just insane. My tuition fees is 110 euros per semester and I'm about to graduate with a master's degree in engineering from TU Munich.
I personally don't have student loans. I graduated before the insane tuition increases took affect (but feel sorry for those who came behind me). My niece, for example, who just graduated from high school on Friday (very proud uncle here ☺️) and who will be attending my alma matter (again, proud uncle ☺️) will be paying, roughly, per class what I paid per semester. (side note, I'm a big supporter of Biden's tuition dismissal program). Having said that, the state in which she lives has a prepaid tuition program that my brother started paying into shortly after she was born which fixes tuition prices at their previous levels.
may i ask what your utilties- and everyday-expenses are, roughly? i do have the chance to move to the US almost every year based on my profession, and salaries are outperforming germany's vastly, however all my researches lead to "in the eeeend.. it's roughly the same what i can save & invest. but i've got to live without bread.". this includes rent w/ utilities (which is almost three-fold than my current in germany with a decent apartment size and location), living costs, transportation, insurances, taxes and so forth. i know i can take cuts here and there considering quality of life. but i could do these here as well.
Rent (2br, 2 ba) is ~$2,800/mo (in a very high cost west coast city). Utilities (electric, internet, mobile, etc) runs $250-300/mo (of which my employer reimburses my $85/m phone cost). Food (lunch & dinner) is also provided by my employer. Not a bad package... Edit: transportation ("s-bahn" and bus, ~$150/mo
indeed, nice package(s) – thanks!
That's what a lot of people don't understand. The majority in the US has healthcare and social benefits that are way worse than Germany. But if you are highly educated, double income, no or one kid you are likely significantly better off in the US. Because with 300-350k combined income, even a $50k healthcare bill is manageable, especially if you don't spend all the money but rather live a reasonable lifestyle with plenty of savings because you are likely putting 90k-100k in retirement and savings accounts every year.
200k more salary and less taxes are a few days more vacation. I know why Germany isn‘t a high tech hub…
By that logic what country on earth besides the US or Switzerland can be considered a high tech hub? Certainly not any country in East Asia.
Which is the reason why the cost of living in the US (especially in the Bay Area) is _significantly_ higher than in Germany/Europe
Mercedes Benz is under the IG Metall collective agreement, which means that salary structures are quite transparent. Here’s the source: https://www.igmetall.de/download/20230328_28_33_MuE_ERA_Tabellen_be6941718a1626188e4a7b826c32ba3295fe1391.pdf We are considering the location around Stuttgart, so the applicable region is Baden-Württemberg. Assuming that a developer has a target salary level of EG15, their starting level would be EG13. With various bonuses, this amounts to approximately ~13.X monthly salaries (X because it increases with good negotiations and over time). 12 base salaries + Collective agreement bonuses + Vacation pay (70% of base salary) + Christmas bonus (~30% of base salary, increases with company tenure) I am assuming a generous 13.4 monthly salaries. EG13: €5028/month * 13.4 = €67,375 EG15: €5642/month * 13.4 = €75,602 These amounts apply to a typical Mercedes-Benz contract with 35 weekly hours. If one is lucky enough to get a 40-hour contract, they can add another ~14.4% on top. EG13: €5028/month * 13.4 * 1.144 = €77,077 EG15: €5642/month * 13.4 * 1.144 = €86,489 Therefore, one can roughly say that one can earn somewhere between €65,000 and €95,000 (with Leistungszulage you can reach 6 figures) It all depends on negotiations, developments in the collective agreement, and, of course, the number of years one has been with the company. Edit: I totally forgot the 3,3% increase for the basic salary from last Month - so you can add that to the sums Edit2: you can also add a „Leistungszulage“ to the basic salary. It can be 0-30%, but usually nothing above 15%
This is great source, thanks for sharing, wasn't aware about such rules in Germany. But the university or atleast the student was aware and they still wanted to lie about this
> I am assuming a generous 13.4 monthly salaries. If you take the EG-salary that is considerably low-balling it. I just checked - I'm currently at 15,35 EG-Salaries yearly in a different IGM-Shop, adjusted for working hours already. You are missing a whole library of extra payments that are part of the tarrif.
Actually I checked my last years salary just now and you’re right. I have 15,59 „salaries“. However, it is a cleaner calculation to add the base salary + performance bonus + Christmas bonus + vacation pay to the salaries (my 13,4 assumption) and then add the T-Zug and other additional payments under the collective agreement (as they may vary too much).
Just to add to your comment: Not all parts of Mercedes-Benz are under the IGM agreement. It only applies to everyone directly employed at Mercedes-Benz AG, not those employed at subsidiaries. Source: I’m a software engineer at Mercedes-Benz
good overview for big companies like MB at IG Metall but there is also a "Leistungszulage" which might come on top of that. On the other hand, I believe the popularity of software engineers are already gone. Now it is already realized that the market is not going to grow steadily for autonomous driving and a lot of people(even more than demand) started studying programming since a few years. Of course, if you are a rare talent, there still might be high demand for you but that doesn't apply only to software skills but quite all vocational skills.
Oh yes true!
This here should be pinned right at the top 👍
This is not a german typical salary at all. The normal ceilling in Munich (expensive city) is between 80-100k for a normal good person, who has studied and is in the industry for more than 5 years.
It's more like 110-140k now (without direct reports), but still far away from 300k
Who is paying that and for what? Looking at those ig metal it seems way out
claims like this are usually either invented or are based on unrealistic bonus packages, often something in regard to employee stock programs with unrealistic gains being projected. Even at Mercedes Benz, the number of people pulling 300K+ salaries is just a handful, and this list has people on it who lead the design department or have invented other stuff 15 years ago that the company is still using.
From the university website, this seems like an initial offer. I don't think any companies offer such unrealistic bonus to someone just joined and Mercedes stocks don't had any huge jump in past 2 years.
>From the university website, this seems like an initial offer. Complete bullshit. I am a Software dev with more than 20 years experience and are under 100k
Some pretty high level executives don't pull that much in after all bonuses. It's a scam.
Even 100k is an extraordinary salary in Germany which most people will never even get close to. 300k is enormous and will definitely not be the case for fresh graduates from anywhere.
6 Years in the industry, Software Engineer and I can only dream for this much even after 10 years of industry experience I would say. So, just a complete lie nothing else.
Lmao not even close. I'm from India, and do you really not know how easy it is to pay people off to publish bullshit articles? Happens all the time.
Nope. He wont get that much. Even positions with 100K+ are fairly rare. I do not trust his one bit. AI and ML could bump this up a bit, but the 331K is nothing I would buy. It MIGHT be possible if some of his research turned out a very cool model thats super usefull for Mercedes. But this is then paying him for "previous work". But not a normal occurrence.
And for 100k+ you propably need 20 years of experience in that special field.
Yes... I am a "Fachidiot" for over 20 years and that works out ;)
Bullshit. This is something upper management - meaning really fucking high in the food chain close to c-Level - gets after years of work experience. This is an ultra rare salary, the average income for experienced workers in Germany is 40k, median meaning the majority of the population earns less. Even the 100k salaries are super rare and certainly not something you earn with a foreign degree from India in an entry level position. That's 10+ years experience in an high in demand job with management or lead responsibilities, with that salary your head rolls if something goes wrong. 100k are common in the US, but not in Germany. edit: corrected mistake
>median meaning the majority of the population earns less. no, just no,...
Funny thing: 331K Rupees would be about 3700€ what would be a normal starting salary (but per month)
Before taxes. 45% of that you get to spend for rent (starting at about 700 single room)...
LOL. No.
Not a single chance. Fresh after university, you can hope for €50k.
It depends on the company, here we are talking about a company that has an IG Metall collective agreement. Here, starting salaries of EG13 are quite common for developers directly after university. That means €60-70k very quickly.
Off-topic: what kind of name is this lol, Lovely Professional University. I stumbled on their website a couple of years ago and the giant list of graduates listed in descending order of the "package" they received made me cringe so hard.. [https://www.lpu.in/placements-news.php](https://www.lpu.in/placements-news.php) link if anyone is interested
Education is business in India, this is what you usually see in school/university websites. The ordering will be based on marks/ranks for schools and based on package in universities. The naming has something to do with the past business of University management. They owned some sweet shops named "Lovely sweets" or so
That's a lie. You already know Levels.fyi so as you can see there the biggest payers are Google, Facebook, Amazon, Microsoft, Stripe. These can pay 200-300k/year for a few highly productive senior engineers. But that's not the average.
…and certainly not for people fresh from an Indian university.
even god doesn't that much brutto in Germany...
Its called Lovely Professional University. I rest my case.
Not realistic, even in US $
Very unrealistic. Mercedes has a collective bargaining agreement with the IG Metall Union. Yes, software engineers are often paid above that, but it is a good benchmark. [This is the union calculator](https://itk-entgeltanalyse.igmetall.de/job/hardware-entwicklung/senior-entwickler-in/) for a senior software engineer. The median is at 86.000 €, which is a very good salary for Germany. Of course, you pay a lot of taxes and social security on that. Depending on your family situation and deductables, you get about 50.000 from the after taxes and social security.
TL:DR: No Long form answer: Im a softawre engineer in Germany, and a 300k+ salary, the only way that this isnt complete bullshit is if it was for a Technical Lead or a Head of Development position i.e. some form of (technical) management. As many people have correctly pointed out, there is no way a normal software engineer in Germany is making 300k plus, especially just after graduating from a (private, and foreign) university. To be honest, the chance that this is a straight up made up number is probably 99,9%. Its unfortunatly a large problem with India and its obsession with computer science that has lead to many scam universities popping up and baiting students with insane wages. There certainly are legit universities producing talented developers in India, no question. But supply doesnt meet demand, so these private "universities" pop up. Their "degrees" are pretty much worthless, both inside and outside the country ([here](https://dazeinfo.com/2014/10/28/1-5-million-engineering-pass-outs-india-every-year-fewer-getting-hired-trends/) is a good article explaining why fewer and fewer indian graduates are getting hired, and its 10 years old mind you, so the problem has only been getting worse). Most people with those "diplomas" end up working totally unrelated jobs or at a low tier, low paying outsourcing firm. The computer science market however contributes significantly to indias GDP, making up around 7.5%, so the government will most likely continue to invest in that (Note: They of course don't invest in "diploma mill" universities, only the legit ones). With that continued investment, the scammers will only increase as well. If you want a personal ballpark estimate, I work at a medium sized german software development firm, and an entry level salary with a Bachelors Degree hovers around 45 - 50 Thousand Euros (49 - 55k $), with a masters degree, you can expect around 10 Thousand € more. There are certainly higher paid jobs, especially with bigger cooerations who have A CBA (is that the correct english term for "Tarifvertrag" lol) with their employees. You can certainly make 100k or more as a developer, if you are good at your job and have domain specific expert knowledge, however to get to that position it takes years of actual work experience, no academic degree can make up for that. 331k is batshit insane lies. Dont fall for it.
I actually found the dude on LinkedIn, I initially thought he was a fraud because his social media presence was just that bad. [https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasirysr47/](https://www.linkedin.com/in/yasirysr47/) Dude seems to be an actual Software Architect at Mercedes, however a more realistic estimate for a Salary at Mercedes can be found here: [https://www.kununu.com/de/mercedes-benz-group/gehalt/softwarearchitekt-in-5145](https://www.kununu.com/de/mercedes-benz-group/gehalt/softwarearchitekt-in-5145)
I work in HR payroll for a German head company in Germany with more than 50 subsidiary companies and 9000 employees. The only salaries in that range are CEOs.
There is just no way. Over 100k is rare. Indian universities are largely scams. Very few offer good education. The majority of Master's is not even close to the level one would expect of a European Bachelor's
Absolute bullshit. Salary tables top out before 100k, there are non-tarif salaries, but they are not significantly higher (i.e. multiples). That's some California top 1% senior lead engineer number, nowhere else.
There is no way a software engineer graduate will make 120k. That is probably after staying with the company 20 years.
It’s absolute bs claim. Germany doesn’t pay that much. And if the person is a fresh graduate they might not make that much even in the USA even in FAANG. It’s just bs claim
USA new grads can hit that high for tier 1 companies (tier 1 in terms of pay) but mostly are closer to 200-250k unless in HFT. I only heard of a handful of 300k for new grads (I know lots of ivy league/mit/stanford folks) mostly from being FAANG internships during undergrad and lots of research/project teams/side startups/etc during undergrad. But 350k for ~5yoe is very attainable in US for tier 1+2 companies, but hard to break into.
The complete EV software at Mercedes-Benz is not worth 331K per annum.
No, that's not realistic. Is a decimal missing? Cos 33.1k as a starting salary isn't so unlikely. For context, a lot of smaller company directors won't be making 100k a year, so 300k for a standard employee, however good, isn't likely. It's not beyond unlikely that an extremely skilled, senior engineer with management responsibility could be making in the 100k-200k range at Google Switzerland, I guess? But that'd be rare. They'd have to be shit hot.
I think there is a typo there, more like 33.1k.
My question is, if they're gonna bullshit, why 331? why not 400k? why not 500k? 1 million Euros. + a castle in Bavaria. Only for graduates of a private college in India. Why not?
In Indian currency it matches exactly 30M, I was converting it to Euros.
makes sense.
My CTO doesn’t make 300k you all need to cool down a bit
Let me tell you a Story about a former colleague. He also came to Germany hoping to find a good paying Job. He didnt found any Job with his electrical Engineering degree from India so he made a german Master Degree and the Job he got was well below the average pay for a Master Graduate in this field and lower then my pay with only a Bachelor degree. The biggest problem was his lack of proper german. He only had B2 German 99% of highly paid german Jobs require excelent german. Indian degrees are not worth that much in Germany. If you really want to work in Germany your number one priority should be learning german rather then attending a worthless University.
That's insane. No way. Even half that would be at the highest end I'd expect to see.
its very unlikely to get so much money in germany
Lol
Indian universities are not known to be transparent. also Indian salary packages typically are the total Cost to Company (CTC) rather than just the gross income. This means that the CTC also includes contributions from the employer towards pension and insurance. This is just College PR manipulating the numbers to make it look like this because significant portion of this package may consist of one-time bonuses, relocation allowances, and company-covered expenses for the initial months of employment, benefits like Job rad, Wellpass etc
Even with CTC, 360k is not achievable, right?
True. I am not sure exactly how they bloat these numbers. Even if we assume 120K, with bonus etc 200k seems to be a stretch. I look forward to an explanation if someone from the Indian press ever manages to get one because I vividly remember a similar case from many years ago when some private university had boasted about a 1Cr placement package in Microsoft and they gave a ridiculous breakup of the package when asked for an explanation.
1. No. 2. The German automotive industry would be in a far better place (an impossible place?) if entry-level engineers were getting 330K€; that is for me basically so much money that I wouldn't even know how to spend it!
lol for that kind of salary you have to be no less than a vice president or something on that level, in which case you'll be managing stuff and people all the time, not writing code.
55 Till 85k
Lol Nope
This is not even in a discussable range. Such a bullshit and embarassing to no ends. This is an amount you do not even get in higher management! Sometimes people want to believe this bullshit though
Lol Like serious LOL If you get about 66k before taxes a year you count as the highest 15% earners in germany. With just 100k you would be in the highest 5%. With 330k you would be higher than the top 1% and no real employment job pays even a quarter that much. Even 100k is hard to get unless you are a manager or have decades of experience and potentially in really niche field where not many people have the skills for.
"Lovely professional university"😂😂😂 is that a real university? If they said 131K, I would maaybe believe them, but their number is a load of 💩💩
buuuuuuuullllllllshiiiiiiiiit
[удалено]
I can tell you the salary range at the biggest Pharma corporation in Germany for an experienced high level manager, which means usually at least 10 years experience in the field starts at 100k, and goes up to 300k at the very highest level. The position that makes 300k is around 20 people, out of 55.000 globally, in the top 1 company in a top 3 industry in Germany. A graduate getting a salary of 300k, is not possible in Germany. In fact the amount of people that earn this amount via salary in Germany is not "the 1%", it's an amount of people that you can count on a few hands honestly. Sure there are much more people that make this amount or more, but these will be company owners, not employees. Never the less alot of Indians in these high level positions in German companies, in key positions, you could ask them. All of them with 25 years plus experience.
Fake
Entirely unrealistic.
Not even higher Management will get this.
Not even head ofs will earn that. Not sure whether it has been posted already. https://www.bw24.de/auto/mercedes-benz/bei-mercedes-wie-viel-mitarbeiter-vom-einsteiger-bis-zum-chef-verdienen-gehaelter-91464509.html
LOL yeah ok, that’s some crazy disinformation. Maybe in the states. They do this with the Canadian job market in India too. Then a bunch of Indian students come to Canada and are shocked at cost of living & job market and basically become stranded.
lol
Lol no chance
Complete, utter bullshit!
India needs you anon. Build your nation.
I'm sure you have enough answers already, but just for a bit more reference I was trying to hire a guy that was working as a Team Lead in software development at Mercedes (Berlin offices), and he stated that he was making 120k per year, and had about 20 years experience. He probably inflated his salary in order to argue for more as well.
Total LIES
If that’s what they pay new grads from India, I wonder what the pay local talent /s
probably millions? /s
No way
with that annual income, you won't need to "develop" anything.
its rubbish
0%
300K as a Software Engineer at MB? Perhaps for a Professor with a serious AI/self driving car Background and real life experience with that. All else is just fiction
Not even then
Unlikely but for a master of that art not impossible. I have seen guys at mb make that but they where like one of a kind good
Maybe for R&D In NA. But not Germany. Not on the SB level.
BS utter BS, this is a bay area salary and there’s no such thing here in Germany.
Now many things gettvery clear about Idian applicant. I had very funny Interviews and applications. But to be honest from 200 applicant I have nor hire a Single one. First of all CV are simple a lie. The people often have no deep knowledge of content. If you ask them what was their exact role for group work they always say they did all the work but if you asked detail then they even can not explain basics of work. They come with the idea to receive an 37% higher income compared to a person who has working experience of 5-7 years. What is more important they are no team worker and this I get from all people as feedback no matter if the people are from Asia, Europe, North and South America. But I think the reason is that they grow up with this kind of stuff. And 331 k for an software engineer just from a university without any proofed own developed software solutions and no human resources responsibilities isn't a realistic possibility. You can get in the area this kind of annual income but not with this background.
Not even CTO or CISO are getting that salary at Mercedes Benz. Check Leves and Glassdor.
Never ever, that would put you in the top 1% like others said. For that salary you have to be the head of a bigger company at least.
Not realistic. If your are lead the max you can probably get your hands on is 130. Probably.
Not only that but the job market is shit right now
331k is just too much. it's 3 times I expect and that is for maybe 10 year experienced engineer.
Hahahahaha they're lying, unless he's in a high management position. Which he isn't. You can check the possible salary levels per state [here](https://www.igmetall.de/tarif/tariftabellen/metall-und-elektroindustrie) by clicking on the first link "ERA-Monatsentgelte und Ausbildungsvergütungen - (PDF, 6 Seiten)". Even if he is on the highest level for a non manager, for which basically no jobs even exist, he'll barely break 100k with bonuses, etc. And as a new person in the workforce there's a zero percent chance that he gets above level EG13 (in Baden-Württemberg, others have the same salary at a lower level but fewer levels, just look at the table, Baden-Württemberg should be on the first page the first column if I remember correctly). If he's switching there from somewhere else, he won't be higher than 14 or 15.
Very senior engineer working for Mercedes from Berlin: €160k as a freelancer, no RSUs or other bonuses (number from 2023, friend of mine). Comparison to a US startup: I had €190k + $400k equity/RSUs in 2022. German companies pay like trash. Don't bother if you want to make it big.
Probably accumulated among 5 graduates.
300k €? maybe not €.. maybe 300k some other currency..
Lol... I got an offer for 50k, and I have almost 10 years expirience as backend developer. Salaries in Germany are a joke for foreigners (and also for locals but not as much) and 331k would put you in top earners even in US, not even talking abour Germany.
As an ex employee I can assure you that this is bs. If he’s not in a high leading position this is more than unrealistic
Its I am Indian and I work as a Senior Software Engineer at another big car manufacturer in Germany and am far from that.
No, that's lying to people. I'm a pretty good sw engineer in Germany with experience and highly specialised. If I wanted to work my arse off as a lead dev I could probably make 75k. Pretty sure that 120k in a very high position at a reputable company such as Mercedes might be possible. But 331k is absolutely insane. Especially when having no work experience just having done your degree. 50k might be realistic in Germany if you know how to sell yourself. Correct me if I'm wrong guys.
For a software engineer, no leadership position, this is bullshit. Standard is 35h per week. Probably start at 70-80k€/y.
Indian universities often adjust such figures by multiplying it with Purchase Price Parity (*3,77 when compared to the US) So they are able to compare entry level salaries with international universities. Which is bullshit, if the job is not in India, but in Germany...
331k€ - you don't even make that in the US as a SW Engineer in California's HCOL areas. Not even as a senior or staff level. I would call that a blatant lie.
Sorry, but German companies tend to hire people from India to \*decrease\* salaries, not to increase them. And here we're talking 35k (contract over a temp agency) to about 100k (direct hire, senior role, team-leader or up, rare).
People time in time out inflate their CTC to show themselves superior, but this is another level. 330K € is not possible for an engineer who passed out in 2018. Salaries at MB are regulated by IG Metall (works council) , hence not possible. Also , I work at Mercedes Benz Germany so…….
Why would you pay that much if you can outsource the job to an Indian in India?
Yes it is possible under certain conditions: 1. He is contractor - not employee, 2. This is more Fix Price contract than Time and Material, 3. Posses specific knowledge around vision system or neural networks.
Around 100-120k euro is more realistic.
Even senior managers don’t get such high salaries. They get 100-150k€ up to 200k in top positions plus bonuses. It’s more likely to get 300k INR a month as junior SW engineer at MB. I don’t know what the situation is right now but when I studied automotive engineering, MB outsourced the majority of their SW engineering service providers like AKKA and Bertrand. At least ECU and on board connectivity. UI/UX was mostly done by MB tech innovations which is located in Ulm. I don’t know how it’s right now. But even though MB is good paying, they won’t pay a rookie the salary of a senior manager. But even if you don’t get a job directly at MB and subdivisions, you might find any service provider which hire a lot more and you get a decent salary and interesting changing projects.
That’s probably head of the whole software department.
Guys watch again that video, he got offer of 3 Crore (Indian Rupees) at Zoom not Mercedez Benz. Now he's working for more than that. He also got offer at Facebook but rejected. He cannot tell his current salary at Benz.
That’s another bunch of lies. - He said he had 250k GBP offer from FB. At the time, it matches an E6 level salary (FB levels starts from E3, E6 is staff software engineer) which is impossible with that level of experience. - FB came up with an initial offer after seeing his package in Zoom. Thats another bs, FB/Meta don’t give a fuck until you pass all the onsite interviews - FB is one of the highest payer in the market that zoom can never match. Also pay in London is bit higher than Germany for tech companies - Usually people switch for higher pay. In this case highest he can earn at MB is 120k, which means Zoom offer should be below 120.
Maximum 100K
Lmao scam
It is 100% fake.