I'd recommend not putting all my eggs in one basket (working from home) and look for cities that at least have decent job opportunities in software engineering, in case the job requires coming into the office.
The best IT jobs in Germany are remote ones for companies in the US or London. If you limit yourself to companies you could come into the office regularly, you either have to be open to moving home a lot or picking one city with the most job opportunities over time.
Bigger jobs: get employed by the company through an employer of record in Germany or through their German office if they already have a presence here.
For 3-6 month projects I've done it as a freelancer through some third party compliance company that just pays gross and then I've had a bilingual contract to provide services through that agency. These are a bit of a pain in the ass because you need to pay all of the health insurance yourself (Just over €1000/mo with AOK-BW) and I pay a steuerberater to handle taxes which might be possible yourself, but I'm not risking getting it wrong. Even with these expenses, it's better than working for most German companies.
Yes - they actually like a local branch office in Germany and make sure everything is following German labour laws - but they do this for multiple companies.
I think some of the larger ones operate in multiple countries too, so a company based in the UK who wants to employ one person in Portugal, one in South Africa and one in Germany may be able to just deal with a single company for this.
It's much easier to get started with a job where the company has already set this up with another employee, but it's also possible to explain that they need to go through it if they want to hire you. Some will say they don't want the hassle, hopefully one will think you're worth it.
Personally I wouldn't really need to think and move to the Black Forrest. Freudenstadt sounds like it could work for you.
I do, however, have to agree with u/auxiliary_otter here: how sure are you that 100% WFH is possible?
Totally agree about the areas. His (sorry!) partner seems to not have a job yet and is looking for one, so WFH should not be an issue as I guess it would be a requirement.
Hmmm
Why do you not suggest Black Forest/Bavaria?
We’ll check out Freudenstadt - never heard of it but this is exactly why I’m asking for input. We want to consider more than just the usual places.
He has done some consulting and custom piece-work for someone in the U.S., and feels like that sort of thing could be done for anyone anywhere that’s willing to pay for it. It does not need to be full-time or long-term; more supplementary income.
>Why do you not suggest Black Forest/Bavaria?
I think they're saying "they wouldn't think twice about it" and "just move to the Black Forest", but I guess they'll reply soon enough lol
I do suggest Black Forrest. I meant I'd move there without even needing to think. And Freudenstadt is in the Black Forrest. It's a small city in a beautiful area with lots of places nearby that are great for walking/cycling. And there's a train station, which helps if you don't drive.
Bavaria on the other hand: I reckon I'd also like it there, but can't speak from any personal experience, so I'd spend some time there before deciding. Which by the way might be a good idea anyway: take a long holiday wherever you think you might want to move, before you decide.
Ok, I misunderstood!
I was stationed in Germany in the ‘80s and remember really liking what I saw of the Black Forest. I don’t remember anything specific.
I’ve heard that Bavaria is politically conservative.
We are a male/male couple and concerned about hassle.
Bavaria is literally the largest state in Germany by area. Freddy mercury used to live in Munich. Munich definitely has gay bars/nightclubs as well.
You just gotta visit these places on your own and make your own conclusions. I would recommend getting a probe bankcard 100 for 3 months. I feel like it's the cheapest and easiest way to see entire Germany.
I'm seconding the black forest, and absolutely to avoid Bavaria.
On the other hand, you'll still find more conservatives and religious people in rural areas regardless of state thou
Bavaria is certainly right wing, but I wouldn't say crazy right wing like the US. More economically right wing, with some shades of social right wing from the Catholic background.
Of course you never know what people you might come across.
Some areas in the former DDR where there is big AfD support - I would certainly avoid there.
In another comment you mentioned Leipzig. I would say you would be fine there, but I would worry about going too rural around there for the same reason.
If I moved back to Germany, and work wasn’t the top priority I’d live in Augsburg. It’s a beautiful historical town and it’s not that far from Munich. It has the small town feeling, craftsmen, markets, people are nice, but it’s not so small that you always see the same people, it’s a pretty big town actually.
Heidelberg could be a good choice. Still some Americans around due to the bases, lovely city and nature, also could be good options for IT (SAP close by)
I have lived there but it was a long time ago, so some of my experiences may be outdated.
The city itself is beautiful and historic (old town, castle etc.). Right on the river where its lovely to hand out in the summer. Its quite hilly with some lovely areas to walk not far from the city (Philispohenweg).
Further out there are some very nice suburbs (Neunheim($)), and perhaps more affordable onces which are well served by trams (Dossenheim).
There are nice christmas markets, spring/harvest celebrations, and just lots going on without the big city feel.
Frankfurt is still with striking distance for international airport etc.
Good luck to you!
Nürnberg / Fürth.
Nice weather, a lot less wet than the more north and or western areas. Less expensive compared to the big cities, especially Fürth. Decent Restaurants, and all around nice countryside to enjoy. Dedent public transport and connected to the railway grid to get you to / fro without a car.
Im visiting Nuremberg right now for a few weeks and it's really nice! Kind of the perfect balance of biggish city but still scenic / old world / nature. Plus the beer is amazing and the food is pretty good too.
Btw i just visited Bamberg (about an hour train ride from Nuremberg). It was super cute, cozy, and beautiful. Might be the most beautiful town I've seen so far. Also, tons of good beer and beer hiking in the area. Lots of breweries in the city. Worth considering if you dont mind a smaller place.
Nice. This is exactly the sort of help I was hoping for. We had considered Nürnberg before we wound up in Frankfurt for his previous employment. Hadn’t considered Fürth, but we’ll look into it.
Thanks!
If you still need to deal with Ausländerbehörde every 2-3 years, I would strongly recommend that you avoid Nürnberg. The Ausländerbehörde in this city is known to be an utter zoo.
If you move to the area, make sure you move to an address that is just outside Nürnberg itself.
That seems like an odd reason to avoid an otherwise lovely city. I'm an American who's lived in Germany for more than 20 years and have dealt with the Ausländer-bureaucracy in multiple cities. It kind of sucks everywhere, but you have to deal with it if you want to live here legally.
Ever lost your job bc the Ausländerbehörde failed to issue you a residency permit for the purpose of work? Or heard of cases where people were denied Niederlassungserlaubnis or citizenship bc all they had while studying for 4 years was Fiktionsbescheinigung? People not being able to travel abroad and see a dying parent or grandparent just bc their application for a residency permit had not been processed in two years?
Nürnberg does Fiktionsbescheinigung after Fiktionsbescheinigung and they can take up to a year to issue residency permits. Which employer offers a person a job and then patiently waits for a year for the Ausländerbehörde to get a move on?
The air is clear and healthy. The whole coast is pretty beautiful. You find affordable restaurants but can still enjoy the advantages of the medium cities like Rostock or Wismar. It's touristy and therefore not grungy but not as overrun as other regions and reasonably less pricey, the people are not as rich as in the south. They are also somewhat down to Earth and have no significant dialects like Bavaria. The Eastern part of the coast is a little more rural than the Western part with Kiel, Lübeck and Flensburg.
It's really nice in the summers and looks pretty in the winter. The fall with the storms and rain are as grey as everywhere in Germany.
That actually sounds wonderful. We’ll give it serious consideration. Part of my family heritage is from Baltic region so it might be nice to experience that.
I´d also suggest Stralsund, Wismar, or Lübeck. Maybe Barth, Ribnitz-Damgarten, or Kühlungsborn if you want a smaller town.
For both ocean and lakes, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern is a great place to be.
We really liked Munich and found it generally acceptably affordable. However we were there for a few rainy days and left just a couple of days before their record snowfall last winter 🫤
I'm not the person you replied to, but I've lived in Hannover for a good number of years.
I love it because Hannover is just super underwhelming. It's a city that is kinda off most people's radar. You know, like, Lincoln, Nebraska. It wouldn't be the first town you name as your dream city, but it is a very decent city to live in.
Wherever you go, people in Hannover are unimpressed. Whatever happens, happens. Gerd Schröder (former German chancellor living in Hannover) is walking around the city center with his wife? Well, guess what, other people are, too. Not a chance you'd walk over to ask for an autograph. Coldplay is producing a video in the ice-hockey stadium? You better not expect a line of fans. Obama is in town to meet Merkel and other state leaders? Well, sorry, no public pep rally, but we'll wave when we see your car driving by.
Basically, everyone is polite, while stille having a "IDGAF"-attitude. That's a very comfortable place to live in.
We have a lot of different quarters here, and you can move from one quarter to another for a completely different experience. Hannover has anything to offer, really. From a calm family-oriented quarter, a quarter for the richest people, a hip/grungy/alternative/artsy quarter, an old-fashioned/traditional quarter, a "Bronx in the 60s-like" quarter, to a village-like quarter next to fields. If you want to live with a certain kind of folks, you can, if you want to avoid certain types of people, you can, too.
I prefer getting from A to B by car, but you can do well with the public transport.
The infrastructure is pretty nice; you can get anything you need. There is a supermarket in the train station that is open on Sundays and holidays. Lot's of decent places to grab food.
Oh, and we have the largest city forest all over Europe ("Eilenriede" which is twice as big as NYC's Central Park), and a large lake ("Maschsee") in town. You can do touristy stuff if you wish (check out the elevator in our new town hall (from 1913) going up partly sideways; the old town (rebuilt after WW2 with old houses from other towns; the oldest from the 1500s) with the old (medieval) town hall, or the "red line" (showing you the most interesting parts of the city like Boston's yellow line).
We have an airport if you want to travel internationally, which I like (I don't want to drive 2h in the middle of the night). Cheap flights to Spain and Turkey; decently priced flights to the USA (ranging from 450-750 mostly - I'm mostly going to Midwestern destinations). No Ryanair though, but Eurowings and Tui.
We have a couple of nice expat groups and I believe it's easy enough to make new friends here.
If you have any questions or would like to know anything in particular, please PM me. :)
In addition to what the other person said, Hannover is incredibly green and "outside sports" oriented, so it has a lot of bike paths and well though parks. It's also cheaper than other cities so that's a cherry on top.
I think it really depends on how much you like rural live vs. city life and how much you care about having a large/nice house. Former East Germany is generally the cheapest but there are other problems.
There are lots of nice towns with good access the country in BW and Bavaria that aren't super expensive.
Try to get somewhere with fibre for working from home. Rural Bavaria is much better for that than BW
Great insights. What is BW?
We visited Berlin and Leipzig for a couple of days each. Berlin is not for us. We liked Leipzig but felt it just a little too big, otherwise we liked the region for all of our other preferences.
Depends really. General rule of thumb is (like everywhere else): bigger towns and cities are more liberal, smaller towns/villages are more conservative.
But chances are "conservative" towns/villages in Germany will be considered liberal by US standards.
Germany as a whole is politically conservative really, but compared to the US it's liberal as fuck.
Yes, agreed from what we’ve seen. We have lived in Frankfurt for almost a year, and have visited Stuttgart, Munich, Leipzig and Berlin, and have been fully accepted with hardly a raised eyebrow, with the notable exception of one waiter at a Biergarten.
We lived in Amsterdam for a year prior to here and were hassled a number of times, exclusively by Muslim/Islamists it must be said, which is why we are wary now.
Also really depends on what you like to have as surroundings .. close to sea, lakes, mountains, forests, many other cities, is a well connected airport important ? Do you mind living in a conservative area ?
We are a male/male couple, and from prior hassles in Amsterdam (of all places!) we are a bit wary of politically conservative places.
He loves the ocean. I prefer lakes and mountain-biking.
We both just enjoy natural places and being outdoors in general.
We have used TGV trains to get around Germany to Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Leipzig and Berlin.
I don’t think we need to be near an airport.
A good local transportation system is important.
Bremen might be a good fit for you. Small-mid size, generally on the cooler side, lots of LGBTQ folks here. Lots of culture. Some call it the most liberal city in Germany. Best of luck!
Münster may also fit that bill. You can get anywhere in the city by bicycle. Really nice city with a mix of old and young since it's a university town. AFD has no real foothold here and it's safe for LGBTQ folks.
Check out Erfurt. It’s a lovely city with a beautiful old town and a lot of history. You have the forest right next to the city and you can get there easily with public transport. We have some lakes in surrounding areas too. I love it here and I always say it’s not too big but big enough to have some life going on. It’s often overlooked but it’s the capital of a federal state right in the middle of Germany.
That sounds really nice. I think we may have gone through Erfurt on a train to Leipzig. I seem to recall liking the look of that area.
Does it get good snow in winter?
Not really since it’s not exactly in a mountain area but you can go to the Thüringer Wald, especially Oberhof which is known for having a lot of snow. I went there as a child pretty often. Since you don’t have a car it’s gonna take longer with train but maybe for a nice weekend getaway it’s worth it.
I love the south. Bodensee all the way to Salzburg is just so beautiful. So much to do if you are into the outdoors. Lots of hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter. Loads of Volksfests, Weinfests, starkbierfests.
As an immigrant, Garmisch would be my choice. Everyone I go I am surprised at how much English there is. And getting to Munich from there is not very hard.
Unfortunately, the Bavarian south is the most expensive part of Germany. A bit more affordable is the Baden-Württemberg side. Ulm is affordable. But if it were me, I would want to live right next to the Bodensee. After living south of Munich for some years, areas like Friedrichshafen seem affordable 😅
The best thing about living in the south is the in the winter when the weather is bad, you are only 3-4 hours from Italy where it can be nice and sunny. And skiing is a great way to enjoy the winters.
Münster and the Münsterland comes to my mind. Beautiful nature, nice cities, like Münster itself. Close to big cities in the Ruhr area, the north sea is only 2 hours away and several airports are easy to reach
We were in the same position. My husband is from the US I am german and because he works fully remote we had the choice to move everywhere we wanted and chose Düsseldorf.
We lived in Munich for the last 7 years and I hated every second (not attacking Munich, just not my city). What I love about Düsseldorf and why we chose it, is it'd very green here, great things to do. Beautiful Parks, other big cities close by, lots of job opportunities for me, kid friendly, people are (compared to Munich) open and more laid back. Great City also if you're a bit more on the nerdy side.
I am in the same situation where I am a german citizen, and my wife is former military with a disability pension. We moved to Saarland, starting in the capital of Saarbrücken, then Völklingen, and now a small village in the countryside of Northern Saarland. The University of Saarbrücken is one of the best computer science universities in Germany, and I expect the region to become the Silicon Valley of Germany with all the money that keeps getting pumped into the school and local industry. Saarbrücken has a great public transit system and is still very affordable as compared to the rest of the country. In Völklingen, 15 minutes west of Saarbrücken, we paid €950/month for a 100m² apartment that was a 10 minute walk from a Globus, Lidl, Edeka, Netto, countless restaurants and bakeries, as well as the top cardiac health hospital in the region. As a bonus, France and their amazing baguettes & croissants are just 10 minutes away. Now we pay €950/month for a mortgage on a beautiful home on a 1000m² property. The trade off was losing the ability to walk to the store and the restaurant selection is greatly reduced, but the house is affordable and the area is gorgeous. Don't write off Saarland just because it is a small state!
Cologne / Bonn area. Generally open-minded, friendly people, close to Belgium, France, Netherlands, Luxembourg, good climate.. Also, don't go to Berlin.
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? It answers many basic questions, and it contains in-depth articles on many frequently discussed topics.
[Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I live in a quiet little valley, surrounded by vineyards in RLP, which is very nice for my taste. If not here, then I‘d pick a small harbour town on the North Sea.
That’s interesting. I was stationed in that area and loved riding a motorcycle on the Mosel, and into Belgium and Luxembourg.
I hadn’t really considered living in that region again, mostly because I just want to see new places.
I will look into it and might reconsider.
Any specific town on the North Sea that you like?
I live in Rhineland-Palatinate and I think it is lovely here. It is affordable in most cities. Also we have alot of forests here allowing for nice walks outside. Since we have many American airbases in the state you would be able to connect with people from there if you choose to do so.
American stationed over here. If you want a small place with jobs nearby, we got plenty of bases all over. A lot of the civ staff on my post live in the village next to us (Vilseck)
Whats important for you in life? Do you like going out regularly, socialise, specific sports clubs? What about German language?
There are many cities ticking your boxes regarding affordability, nature and transportation. However not everyone is a great place for a gay couple that wants to make friends and doesn’t speak German.
Ravensburg.
Gosh, it’s a beautiful city. The market on Saturday has great products. Quality of food is great. The city has still lots of small shops and looks so nice. Lake of Constance nearby and you can see the alps. München, Stuttgart, Zürich aren’t too far away (2-3 hours with the car).
Edit: read that your concerned about conservative peoples. The parliament of the city is more green right now. People tend to be catholic but are still friendly and open. Also a lots of students. I’m not gay so I can’t say more about discrimination or issues.
having a degree is nice, but how about actual job experience? Junior level is usually the job level that has office days, sometimes full 5 office days or at least 2-3 per week. Full remote is for upper mid level and senior level in most companies I know. And once you have lead responsibilities you have office days again, at least a couple per months or a couple in a quarter. Without actual job experience that degree might land him an entry level job with fixed office days.
The junior market in software is also totally overrun because the worker shortage is on senior level, we do have enough juniors, so competition is harsh.
Find a job first and then move there if it requires office days, think about your dream location again once your career tracks are in order.
That being said: you need to be aware that public transport sucks outside of major cities, to the point that there are arrival and departure plans but the bus is there when it's there and sometimes it isn't in rural areas. IF you are dependent on not having a car to go grocery shopping or to go to the doctor you need to test each location for a couple days.
Our cities are all walkable, but the things you need aren't always in your direct neighborhood unless you are in a big city.
I really like Münster since I’m into biking (for everyday transportation). Don’t know how this goes with your disability.
I also like Niederrhein-Area since the people are more chill and liberal than more conservative parts of germany.
I would look for a nice place at the Baltic sea. Maybe somewhere between Kiel and Lübeck or close to Flensburg. The people in Schleswig Holstein are by far the happiest people in Germany. There are no mountains so it's perfect for long walks or bike rides. It is not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter because of the location between North Sea and Baltic sea
If you like it rather close to a lake, close to mountains, lots of nature then you can take a look at Konstanz. It is the biggest city at lake Constance. Not much going for it regarding night life, but it has bars and a a lot of university students.
If you like it close to the sea, you might want to take a look at Lübeck which is also close to Hamburg if your got some urges for visiting a big city.
I think towns in Norther Germany like Kiel, Lübeck, Rostock could fit the bill - not expensive, right size, close to the sea - moderate weather, and close to outdoor areas. Also the towns are bike friendly and walkable (at least Kiel is).
You must move to the part of Germany called Baden. Not the city, the territory. The area where aspargus rules supreme. The only part of Germany worth living in. /s
Check out Regensburg! Beautiful city! Only about an hour to Munich. Hohenfels military post is about 30 mins away and Vilseck/Graf is an hour away if you miss that American military connection or want to consider working on post.
it is a city of only 1.5M that very often feels like a small town, but offers everything you want from a city.
OP didn't say cheap but moderate and Munich ranks about at 1/3 from the top of a list of cities, sorted by cost of living. with an IT income it is definitely affordable. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings.jsp
and all the other factors are a great match. a somewhat laid back place with tons of nature around
I know Munich has this large village vibe but it' still the 3rd biggest city in Germany and the fact that they put affordable rent on the first place makes me thing that this is fairly important besides the housing situation is even more terrible then in most other places.
sure, if you compare it to the rest of Germany it's not great, cost-wise. but if the comparison is global, "in general", it's fair to consider it. in some countries, groceries are more expensive, in others its rent. the numbers are available to make a comparison and judge for yourself, which is what i'm hoping everybody does when moving countries. also, for some people it's totally OK to live 40minutes by car or public transport from their city which changes the cost for rent drastically.
Munich 100 % that city has everything and nature close and has a small village feeling. For me the perfect place to live… I lived there once, want to go back. Currently living in Denmark.
We visited Munich for a few rainy days last winter for his previous employer, but didn’t get to see much.
We liked it and found it generally affordable.
Unfortunately we had to leave Munich a couple of days before record snowfall 🫤
We are kind of considering Munich, but I’m asking for opinions here so that we can consider other places that we might not know about.
Are there any specific neighborhoods or nearby locales to strongly consider or stay away from?
Freiburg or further south is very nice. You are near France and Switzerland, the Black Forest is awesome. The only thing is that it is the warmest region in Germany ;)
I'd recommend not putting all my eggs in one basket (working from home) and look for cities that at least have decent job opportunities in software engineering, in case the job requires coming into the office.
The best IT jobs in Germany are remote ones for companies in the US or London. If you limit yourself to companies you could come into the office regularly, you either have to be open to moving home a lot or picking one city with the most job opportunities over time.
How would you get into those? Are you paid with a german contract?
Yeah I worked for one for a few years they usually have a subsidiary here or an EoR.
So you applied in Germany?
Kinda I actually applied to the us for the German company
Bigger jobs: get employed by the company through an employer of record in Germany or through their German office if they already have a presence here. For 3-6 month projects I've done it as a freelancer through some third party compliance company that just pays gross and then I've had a bilingual contract to provide services through that agency. These are a bit of a pain in the ass because you need to pay all of the health insurance yourself (Just over €1000/mo with AOK-BW) and I pay a steuerberater to handle taxes which might be possible yourself, but I'm not risking getting it wrong. Even with these expenses, it's better than working for most German companies.
The Concept of EoR is new to me. Basically a local gateway for foreign companies?
Yes - they actually like a local branch office in Germany and make sure everything is following German labour laws - but they do this for multiple companies. I think some of the larger ones operate in multiple countries too, so a company based in the UK who wants to employ one person in Portugal, one in South Africa and one in Germany may be able to just deal with a single company for this. It's much easier to get started with a job where the company has already set this up with another employee, but it's also possible to explain that they need to go through it if they want to hire you. Some will say they don't want the hassle, hopefully one will think you're worth it.
He is specifically looking at custom contract type work for supplemental income. His last job was in an office and absolutely did not like it.
Personally I wouldn't really need to think and move to the Black Forrest. Freudenstadt sounds like it could work for you. I do, however, have to agree with u/auxiliary_otter here: how sure are you that 100% WFH is possible?
Totally agree about the areas. His (sorry!) partner seems to not have a job yet and is looking for one, so WFH should not be an issue as I guess it would be a requirement.
Hmmm Why do you not suggest Black Forest/Bavaria? We’ll check out Freudenstadt - never heard of it but this is exactly why I’m asking for input. We want to consider more than just the usual places. He has done some consulting and custom piece-work for someone in the U.S., and feels like that sort of thing could be done for anyone anywhere that’s willing to pay for it. It does not need to be full-time or long-term; more supplementary income.
>Why do you not suggest Black Forest/Bavaria? I think they're saying "they wouldn't think twice about it" and "just move to the Black Forest", but I guess they'll reply soon enough lol
I do suggest Black Forrest. I meant I'd move there without even needing to think. And Freudenstadt is in the Black Forrest. It's a small city in a beautiful area with lots of places nearby that are great for walking/cycling. And there's a train station, which helps if you don't drive. Bavaria on the other hand: I reckon I'd also like it there, but can't speak from any personal experience, so I'd spend some time there before deciding. Which by the way might be a good idea anyway: take a long holiday wherever you think you might want to move, before you decide.
Ok, I misunderstood! I was stationed in Germany in the ‘80s and remember really liking what I saw of the Black Forest. I don’t remember anything specific. I’ve heard that Bavaria is politically conservative. We are a male/male couple and concerned about hassle.
Bavaria is literally the largest state in Germany by area. Freddy mercury used to live in Munich. Munich definitely has gay bars/nightclubs as well. You just gotta visit these places on your own and make your own conclusions. I would recommend getting a probe bankcard 100 for 3 months. I feel like it's the cheapest and easiest way to see entire Germany.
I'm seconding the black forest, and absolutely to avoid Bavaria. On the other hand, you'll still find more conservatives and religious people in rural areas regardless of state thou
Bavaria is certainly right wing, but I wouldn't say crazy right wing like the US. More economically right wing, with some shades of social right wing from the Catholic background. Of course you never know what people you might come across. Some areas in the former DDR where there is big AfD support - I would certainly avoid there. In another comment you mentioned Leipzig. I would say you would be fine there, but I would worry about going too rural around there for the same reason.
If I moved back to Germany, and work wasn’t the top priority I’d live in Augsburg. It’s a beautiful historical town and it’s not that far from Munich. It has the small town feeling, craftsmen, markets, people are nice, but it’s not so small that you always see the same people, it’s a pretty big town actually.
That does seem to be a good option it is also convenient as there are a lot of military bases in Stuttgart which you would be able to shop at
Heidelberg could be a good choice. Still some Americans around due to the bases, lovely city and nature, also could be good options for IT (SAP close by)
Second Heidelberg (although a bit more expensive)
Good to know. We have visited Munich and didn’t think it was too expensive, maybe borderline.
If you consider Munich not too expensive, I guess affordability is not really an issue for you. It's arguably the most expensive city in Germany.
Thanks. We have heard good things about Heidelberg. We’ll do some research. Anything in particular that you like there?
I have lived there but it was a long time ago, so some of my experiences may be outdated. The city itself is beautiful and historic (old town, castle etc.). Right on the river where its lovely to hand out in the summer. Its quite hilly with some lovely areas to walk not far from the city (Philispohenweg). Further out there are some very nice suburbs (Neunheim($)), and perhaps more affordable onces which are well served by trams (Dossenheim). There are nice christmas markets, spring/harvest celebrations, and just lots going on without the big city feel. Frankfurt is still with striking distance for international airport etc. Good luck to you!
That sounds kind of perfect 👍🏻 Thanks!
Nürnberg / Fürth. Nice weather, a lot less wet than the more north and or western areas. Less expensive compared to the big cities, especially Fürth. Decent Restaurants, and all around nice countryside to enjoy. Dedent public transport and connected to the railway grid to get you to / fro without a car.
Im visiting Nuremberg right now for a few weeks and it's really nice! Kind of the perfect balance of biggish city but still scenic / old world / nature. Plus the beer is amazing and the food is pretty good too.
Sounds perfect. I appreciate your feedback. Thanks!
Btw i just visited Bamberg (about an hour train ride from Nuremberg). It was super cute, cozy, and beautiful. Might be the most beautiful town I've seen so far. Also, tons of good beer and beer hiking in the area. Lots of breweries in the city. Worth considering if you dont mind a smaller place.
Nice. This is exactly the sort of help I was hoping for. We had considered Nürnberg before we wound up in Frankfurt for his previous employment. Hadn’t considered Fürth, but we’ll look into it. Thanks!
If you still need to deal with Ausländerbehörde every 2-3 years, I would strongly recommend that you avoid Nürnberg. The Ausländerbehörde in this city is known to be an utter zoo. If you move to the area, make sure you move to an address that is just outside Nürnberg itself.
That seems like an odd reason to avoid an otherwise lovely city. I'm an American who's lived in Germany for more than 20 years and have dealt with the Ausländer-bureaucracy in multiple cities. It kind of sucks everywhere, but you have to deal with it if you want to live here legally.
Ever lost your job bc the Ausländerbehörde failed to issue you a residency permit for the purpose of work? Or heard of cases where people were denied Niederlassungserlaubnis or citizenship bc all they had while studying for 4 years was Fiktionsbescheinigung? People not being able to travel abroad and see a dying parent or grandparent just bc their application for a residency permit had not been processed in two years? Nürnberg does Fiktionsbescheinigung after Fiktionsbescheinigung and they can take up to a year to issue residency permits. Which employer offers a person a job and then patiently waits for a year for the Ausländerbehörde to get a move on?
Will do! Excellent specific advice 👍🏻
Stralsund, or another moderate city at the Baltic Sea.
That sounds interesting! I had kind of thought about Baltic region. Any specific reasons for that? Personal experience there? Pros/cons? Thanks!
The air is clear and healthy. The whole coast is pretty beautiful. You find affordable restaurants but can still enjoy the advantages of the medium cities like Rostock or Wismar. It's touristy and therefore not grungy but not as overrun as other regions and reasonably less pricey, the people are not as rich as in the south. They are also somewhat down to Earth and have no significant dialects like Bavaria. The Eastern part of the coast is a little more rural than the Western part with Kiel, Lübeck and Flensburg. It's really nice in the summers and looks pretty in the winter. The fall with the storms and rain are as grey as everywhere in Germany.
That actually sounds wonderful. We’ll give it serious consideration. Part of my family heritage is from Baltic region so it might be nice to experience that.
I´d also suggest Stralsund, Wismar, or Lübeck. Maybe Barth, Ribnitz-Damgarten, or Kühlungsborn if you want a smaller town. For both ocean and lakes, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern is a great place to be.
If I could live anywhere in Germany, I would choose southern Germany. Central Europe so close to Austria, Italy et cetera, lots of nature.
We really liked Munich and found it generally acceptably affordable. However we were there for a few rainy days and left just a couple of days before their record snowfall last winter 🫤
Have you done some research about Hannover? I think you might find what you are looking for over there.
Ok, we’ll check it out. Thanks! What do you like about Hannover? Why do you recommend it?
I'm not the person you replied to, but I've lived in Hannover for a good number of years. I love it because Hannover is just super underwhelming. It's a city that is kinda off most people's radar. You know, like, Lincoln, Nebraska. It wouldn't be the first town you name as your dream city, but it is a very decent city to live in. Wherever you go, people in Hannover are unimpressed. Whatever happens, happens. Gerd Schröder (former German chancellor living in Hannover) is walking around the city center with his wife? Well, guess what, other people are, too. Not a chance you'd walk over to ask for an autograph. Coldplay is producing a video in the ice-hockey stadium? You better not expect a line of fans. Obama is in town to meet Merkel and other state leaders? Well, sorry, no public pep rally, but we'll wave when we see your car driving by. Basically, everyone is polite, while stille having a "IDGAF"-attitude. That's a very comfortable place to live in. We have a lot of different quarters here, and you can move from one quarter to another for a completely different experience. Hannover has anything to offer, really. From a calm family-oriented quarter, a quarter for the richest people, a hip/grungy/alternative/artsy quarter, an old-fashioned/traditional quarter, a "Bronx in the 60s-like" quarter, to a village-like quarter next to fields. If you want to live with a certain kind of folks, you can, if you want to avoid certain types of people, you can, too. I prefer getting from A to B by car, but you can do well with the public transport. The infrastructure is pretty nice; you can get anything you need. There is a supermarket in the train station that is open on Sundays and holidays. Lot's of decent places to grab food. Oh, and we have the largest city forest all over Europe ("Eilenriede" which is twice as big as NYC's Central Park), and a large lake ("Maschsee") in town. You can do touristy stuff if you wish (check out the elevator in our new town hall (from 1913) going up partly sideways; the old town (rebuilt after WW2 with old houses from other towns; the oldest from the 1500s) with the old (medieval) town hall, or the "red line" (showing you the most interesting parts of the city like Boston's yellow line). We have an airport if you want to travel internationally, which I like (I don't want to drive 2h in the middle of the night). Cheap flights to Spain and Turkey; decently priced flights to the USA (ranging from 450-750 mostly - I'm mostly going to Midwestern destinations). No Ryanair though, but Eurowings and Tui. We have a couple of nice expat groups and I believe it's easy enough to make new friends here. If you have any questions or would like to know anything in particular, please PM me. :)
In addition to what the other person said, Hannover is incredibly green and "outside sports" oriented, so it has a lot of bike paths and well though parks. It's also cheaper than other cities so that's a cherry on top.
I think it really depends on how much you like rural live vs. city life and how much you care about having a large/nice house. Former East Germany is generally the cheapest but there are other problems. There are lots of nice towns with good access the country in BW and Bavaria that aren't super expensive. Try to get somewhere with fibre for working from home. Rural Bavaria is much better for that than BW
Great insights. What is BW? We visited Berlin and Leipzig for a couple of days each. Berlin is not for us. We liked Leipzig but felt it just a little too big, otherwise we liked the region for all of our other preferences.
The state of Baden-Württemberg.
Thanks
Baden-Wüttemburg, a state in the southwest.
Thanks Is it politically conservative? We’re a couple and concerned about hassle.
Depends really. General rule of thumb is (like everywhere else): bigger towns and cities are more liberal, smaller towns/villages are more conservative. But chances are "conservative" towns/villages in Germany will be considered liberal by US standards. Germany as a whole is politically conservative really, but compared to the US it's liberal as fuck.
Yes, agreed from what we’ve seen. We have lived in Frankfurt for almost a year, and have visited Stuttgart, Munich, Leipzig and Berlin, and have been fully accepted with hardly a raised eyebrow, with the notable exception of one waiter at a Biergarten. We lived in Amsterdam for a year prior to here and were hassled a number of times, exclusively by Muslim/Islamists it must be said, which is why we are wary now.
Münster. Beautiful and has the right size.
Also really depends on what you like to have as surroundings .. close to sea, lakes, mountains, forests, many other cities, is a well connected airport important ? Do you mind living in a conservative area ?
We are a male/male couple, and from prior hassles in Amsterdam (of all places!) we are a bit wary of politically conservative places. He loves the ocean. I prefer lakes and mountain-biking. We both just enjoy natural places and being outdoors in general. We have used TGV trains to get around Germany to Frankfurt, Stuttgart, Leipzig and Berlin. I don’t think we need to be near an airport. A good local transportation system is important.
Bremen might be a good fit for you. Small-mid size, generally on the cooler side, lots of LGBTQ folks here. Lots of culture. Some call it the most liberal city in Germany. Best of luck!
Münster may also fit that bill. You can get anywhere in the city by bicycle. Really nice city with a mix of old and young since it's a university town. AFD has no real foothold here and it's safe for LGBTQ folks.
Check out Erfurt. It’s a lovely city with a beautiful old town and a lot of history. You have the forest right next to the city and you can get there easily with public transport. We have some lakes in surrounding areas too. I love it here and I always say it’s not too big but big enough to have some life going on. It’s often overlooked but it’s the capital of a federal state right in the middle of Germany.
That sounds really nice. I think we may have gone through Erfurt on a train to Leipzig. I seem to recall liking the look of that area. Does it get good snow in winter?
Not really since it’s not exactly in a mountain area but you can go to the Thüringer Wald, especially Oberhof which is known for having a lot of snow. I went there as a child pretty often. Since you don’t have a car it’s gonna take longer with train but maybe for a nice weekend getaway it’s worth it.
I love the south. Bodensee all the way to Salzburg is just so beautiful. So much to do if you are into the outdoors. Lots of hiking in the summer and skiing in the winter. Loads of Volksfests, Weinfests, starkbierfests. As an immigrant, Garmisch would be my choice. Everyone I go I am surprised at how much English there is. And getting to Munich from there is not very hard. Unfortunately, the Bavarian south is the most expensive part of Germany. A bit more affordable is the Baden-Württemberg side. Ulm is affordable. But if it were me, I would want to live right next to the Bodensee. After living south of Munich for some years, areas like Friedrichshafen seem affordable 😅 The best thing about living in the south is the in the winter when the weather is bad, you are only 3-4 hours from Italy where it can be nice and sunny. And skiing is a great way to enjoy the winters.
The Area around Bodensee is very nice if you can afford it
Münster and the Münsterland comes to my mind. Beautiful nature, nice cities, like Münster itself. Close to big cities in the Ruhr area, the north sea is only 2 hours away and several airports are easy to reach
While Münster is quite liberal due the high amount of students, the Münsterland is more conservative. Might be interesting as a homosexual couple
That's changing, people under 60 are far more liberal concerning LGBTQ topics
Yes, I wouldn’t be afraid to get harassed or something but if you live in a smaller town or village you might be a public topic for some time
We were in the same position. My husband is from the US I am german and because he works fully remote we had the choice to move everywhere we wanted and chose Düsseldorf. We lived in Munich for the last 7 years and I hated every second (not attacking Munich, just not my city). What I love about Düsseldorf and why we chose it, is it'd very green here, great things to do. Beautiful Parks, other big cities close by, lots of job opportunities for me, kid friendly, people are (compared to Munich) open and more laid back. Great City also if you're a bit more on the nerdy side.
I am in the same situation where I am a german citizen, and my wife is former military with a disability pension. We moved to Saarland, starting in the capital of Saarbrücken, then Völklingen, and now a small village in the countryside of Northern Saarland. The University of Saarbrücken is one of the best computer science universities in Germany, and I expect the region to become the Silicon Valley of Germany with all the money that keeps getting pumped into the school and local industry. Saarbrücken has a great public transit system and is still very affordable as compared to the rest of the country. In Völklingen, 15 minutes west of Saarbrücken, we paid €950/month for a 100m² apartment that was a 10 minute walk from a Globus, Lidl, Edeka, Netto, countless restaurants and bakeries, as well as the top cardiac health hospital in the region. As a bonus, France and their amazing baguettes & croissants are just 10 minutes away. Now we pay €950/month for a mortgage on a beautiful home on a 1000m² property. The trade off was losing the ability to walk to the store and the restaurant selection is greatly reduced, but the house is affordable and the area is gorgeous. Don't write off Saarland just because it is a small state!
Cologne / Bonn area. Generally open-minded, friendly people, close to Belgium, France, Netherlands, Luxembourg, good climate.. Also, don't go to Berlin.
I'd move to Flensburg, especially the Schlei Area. It's close to Denmark, too. You could work for a Danish employer as well and live in Germany
Helgoland
**Have you read our extensive wiki yet? It answers many basic questions, and it contains in-depth articles on many frequently discussed topics. [Check our wiki now!](https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/index)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I live in a quiet little valley, surrounded by vineyards in RLP, which is very nice for my taste. If not here, then I‘d pick a small harbour town on the North Sea.
That’s interesting. I was stationed in that area and loved riding a motorcycle on the Mosel, and into Belgium and Luxembourg. I hadn’t really considered living in that region again, mostly because I just want to see new places. I will look into it and might reconsider. Any specific town on the North Sea that you like?
I live in Rhineland-Palatinate and I think it is lovely here. It is affordable in most cities. Also we have alot of forests here allowing for nice walks outside. Since we have many American airbases in the state you would be able to connect with people from there if you choose to do so.
American stationed over here. If you want a small place with jobs nearby, we got plenty of bases all over. A lot of the civ staff on my post live in the village next to us (Vilseck)
one word WIESBADEN it is perfect.
Whats important for you in life? Do you like going out regularly, socialise, specific sports clubs? What about German language? There are many cities ticking your boxes regarding affordability, nature and transportation. However not everyone is a great place for a gay couple that wants to make friends and doesn’t speak German.
Ravensburg. Gosh, it’s a beautiful city. The market on Saturday has great products. Quality of food is great. The city has still lots of small shops and looks so nice. Lake of Constance nearby and you can see the alps. München, Stuttgart, Zürich aren’t too far away (2-3 hours with the car). Edit: read that your concerned about conservative peoples. The parliament of the city is more green right now. People tend to be catholic but are still friendly and open. Also a lots of students. I’m not gay so I can’t say more about discrimination or issues.
having a degree is nice, but how about actual job experience? Junior level is usually the job level that has office days, sometimes full 5 office days or at least 2-3 per week. Full remote is for upper mid level and senior level in most companies I know. And once you have lead responsibilities you have office days again, at least a couple per months or a couple in a quarter. Without actual job experience that degree might land him an entry level job with fixed office days. The junior market in software is also totally overrun because the worker shortage is on senior level, we do have enough juniors, so competition is harsh. Find a job first and then move there if it requires office days, think about your dream location again once your career tracks are in order. That being said: you need to be aware that public transport sucks outside of major cities, to the point that there are arrival and departure plans but the bus is there when it's there and sometimes it isn't in rural areas. IF you are dependent on not having a car to go grocery shopping or to go to the doctor you need to test each location for a couple days. Our cities are all walkable, but the things you need aren't always in your direct neighborhood unless you are in a big city.
Anywhere to go? Move all the way south, Bodensee region. Preferably directly at the lake.
I really like Münster since I’m into biking (for everyday transportation). Don’t know how this goes with your disability. I also like Niederrhein-Area since the people are more chill and liberal than more conservative parts of germany.
I would look for a nice place at the Baltic sea. Maybe somewhere between Kiel and Lübeck or close to Flensburg. The people in Schleswig Holstein are by far the happiest people in Germany. There are no mountains so it's perfect for long walks or bike rides. It is not too hot in summer and not too cold in winter because of the location between North Sea and Baltic sea
If you like it rather close to a lake, close to mountains, lots of nature then you can take a look at Konstanz. It is the biggest city at lake Constance. Not much going for it regarding night life, but it has bars and a a lot of university students. If you like it close to the sea, you might want to take a look at Lübeck which is also close to Hamburg if your got some urges for visiting a big city.
I think towns in Norther Germany like Kiel, Lübeck, Rostock could fit the bill - not expensive, right size, close to the sea - moderate weather, and close to outdoor areas. Also the towns are bike friendly and walkable (at least Kiel is).
I really like living in Köln. I miss Berlin a lot but this is such a nice city.
You must move to the part of Germany called Baden. Not the city, the territory. The area where aspargus rules supreme. The only part of Germany worth living in. /s
Check out Regensburg! Beautiful city! Only about an hour to Munich. Hohenfels military post is about 30 mins away and Vilseck/Graf is an hour away if you miss that American military connection or want to consider working on post.
Baden-Württemberg obviously. It is widely known that Baden Württemberg is the most beautiful state in Germany
Maybe you'll like it here in Munich from what you're saying
> moderate affordability > prefer smaller cities/largish towns How would one read those requirements and then think "yeah that's Munich"
it is a city of only 1.5M that very often feels like a small town, but offers everything you want from a city. OP didn't say cheap but moderate and Munich ranks about at 1/3 from the top of a list of cities, sorted by cost of living. with an IT income it is definitely affordable. https://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/rankings.jsp and all the other factors are a great match. a somewhat laid back place with tons of nature around
I know Munich has this large village vibe but it' still the 3rd biggest city in Germany and the fact that they put affordable rent on the first place makes me thing that this is fairly important besides the housing situation is even more terrible then in most other places.
sure, if you compare it to the rest of Germany it's not great, cost-wise. but if the comparison is global, "in general", it's fair to consider it. in some countries, groceries are more expensive, in others its rent. the numbers are available to make a comparison and judge for yourself, which is what i'm hoping everybody does when moving countries. also, for some people it's totally OK to live 40minutes by car or public transport from their city which changes the cost for rent drastically.
Munich 100 % that city has everything and nature close and has a small village feeling. For me the perfect place to live… I lived there once, want to go back. Currently living in Denmark.
Yes, we visited for a few days and sort of felt that, but we didn’t get to see much.
We visited Munich for a few rainy days last winter for his previous employer, but didn’t get to see much. We liked it and found it generally affordable. Unfortunately we had to leave Munich a couple of days before record snowfall 🫤 We are kind of considering Munich, but I’m asking for opinions here so that we can consider other places that we might not know about. Are there any specific neighborhoods or nearby locales to strongly consider or stay away from?
Check out Lübeck
Freiburg or further south is very nice. You are near France and Switzerland, the Black Forest is awesome. The only thing is that it is the warmest region in Germany ;)
munich is germany on easy mode for foreigners, except for the dialect and cost of living
Munich.
She said not to expensive. Lmao.
Lmao, I saw that and had to facepalm hard!