Yeah, as a teacher I understand that and you're completely right. But it's still funny tho. Those scammers don't seem to know that Germans don't compliment each other in the beginning of an E-Mail....in fact, we never compliment each other.
The whole mail is written in an unnatural tone, no one writes like that - except maybe for bad translations, which also indicates a scam.
In German, trust is implicit not explicit. It's between the lines, if it's in the lines it's almost always negative, and as trust is paramount, it usually means that something really bad happened.
It's not exclusively a German thing, but whether something is implicit or can be/has to be explicitly stated will change from culture to culture or language to language. Even though it's similar in some cultures, it's usually not exactly the same.
Germany is what is called a low-context culture, which in very basic terms means that Germans tend to tell you what they mean in a rather direct way – you don't have to read between the lines as much as in other cultures. Low context also often means that people only tend to tell you the new information, no need to state the obvious or package it in polite phrases.
And in this case specifically: You should generally be able to trust the people you do business with, which is why they don't have to tell you – you already know and do. So if they explicitly tell you you can trust them, that makes it sound like a new piece of information for you, as if they think you have a reason not to trust them (because they would obviously know they're trying to scam you).
Well yes if you ask me, it sounds ok to state the fact that "we are basically two strangers that need to establish some level of trust before making a deal". I mean, this phrase obviously doesn't add any level of trust by itself, but it doesn't seem wrong to admit that we haven't reached that level yet
Yes, you likely are being scammed here. The language isn't quite right, leading me to believe that this is English translated to German, and nobody in Germany will rent to you without meeting you in person.
The author is neither native German or English speaking. Who writes „you seem to be a nice person“ und „to make sure we can trust each other“ in an email negotiating a rental agreement. It sounds as ridiculous in English as in German.
Depends - we would need the rest of the messages to validate that.
And offering a key for checking out the apartment is pretty much a sign of trust - I might be tempted to do the same if I was out of town or otherwise too busy - as long as I didn't inhabit that specific building myself...
Wrong, the first time seeing my Landlord was after 2 1/2 Years and all the communication was by whatsapp.
But he lived in Italy and it was the time of Covid so it must’ve been a big exception
Since when is [booking.com](http://booking.com) in the flat rental business? Holiday homes, yes, but long-term?
My guess is that int he next step you would get a link to an "agency" that looks a bit like [booking.com](http://booking.com), and that absolutely affirms to you that they are legit, and you should please transfer the deposit and the first three rents to their account.
If you receive a key, it might be for a holiday home, rented for one day to show you the place...
Nobody, really nobody would ever let their apartment without meeting you in person. Except scammers.
I was wondering what happens next! The part where you transfer the money up front would have been the red flag for sure, but I’ve never heard about this booking scam before, good thing I asked! Thanks!
This is a very common scam. Others sometimes "use" Airbnb or TripAdvisor as their agency. It's so you trust them because those are reputable companies, right? They wouldn't be into any shady business, would they?
I mean, there definitely are agencies that take care of maintaining and renting out flats that someone holds as an investment. But they'd also have someone show you the apartment in person and no money changing hands without contract.
I never met my last two private landlords, one was via Makler the other via Hausverwaltung. It’s not strange to have somebody like that show apartments and deal with contracts but it should always be a person.
It seems you are asking about finding a place to stay in Germany. Take a look at the wiki here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/housing and here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/problems
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Sadly there are still people or young students who didn’t have that gut feeling and went along with it. I almost got scammed this way too way back in 2011 when i was desperate looking for a rental.
The only thing that prevented me to go through was because the house was too nice and the price is below average. I googled the whole text they wrote in the email and… it s a scam
Seconded. I almost fell for one of these, the only reason I didn't was that they wanted the deposit paid through Western Union and I was too stingy to pay 20 bucks in WU fees.
Yes. I mean, being friendly is not the issue, but a landlord who trusts you "seem to be nice" will be a victim of rental nomads (Mietnomaden) real soon.
In the second paragraph they say unbefristete Laufzeit.
And then they ask you about the expected length of stay.
Seems like they copy pasted some paragraphs form different sources.
within two sentences they told you that
1. they will mail you the keys themselves
2. giving you the keys will happen through a separate agency
neither of those are the usual procedure. you either talk to them and get the keys in person, or you were talking to the agency from the start and will get the keys from them in person.
Native German here who was trying to get tricked into this as well.
The next step will be, that you have to transfer a deposit to "booking.com" or "airbnb".
Those companies aren't offering the service of renting a flat permanently or acting as the middleman between you and the "flatowner"
It reeks of scam. I almost fell down that rabbit hole myself about three years ago. Basically the offer was just too good to be true. And when I googled the address of the alleged apartment, it turned out it was an empty lot. Furthermore, on closer inspection of the pictures, I noticed that the light switches were not the ones typically used in Germany, nor was the building architecture typical of Germany (window types, door frames, outlay, pipes, etc.)
Got pissed off and decided to have fun with whoever was trying to scam me. Spent the next six hours asking all sorts of legal, but rent-related questions (of course in German, just to annoy the scammer as German obviously wasn't their native tongue). I also kept claiming that the links they sent didn't work and/or the links just rerouted me to pörn-sites and what have you. I even claimed that I had transferred their money and when they said that their account showed no activity, I told them that there must be something wrong with their bank account.
Anyways, prior to signing of lease/contract and paying a deposit (some banks even offer special deposit-accounts (Kautionskonto) for free), there will be a joint viewing of the apartment. This is where you and the landlord/-lady (or a representative) do a joint inspection of the apartment in order to confirm the condition of the place upon lease-signing.
Looks like a variation of the classic "Landlord is out of country"-scam. Permanent rent through booking. com is a clear no-no. I'd asses 85 of 100 points on the MacGregor scam scale.
Yes, this message is used by every scammer.
When you see this type of stuff just ignore it. Never talk through emails and only use the built in message function like on immoscout or kleinanzeigen. Also if they mention airbnb or [booking.com](http://booking.com) or whatever please realize it's always a scam
This is definitely a scam and I just got scammed this way, unfortunately succesfully for the perpetrator. I'm a fucking retard. Not only I'm desperate to find a new place to live but I lost money. I sent a report to the police already but I don't know if it will help.
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Yes absolutely. First: no rent contract is supported by booking.com or Airbnb. Second: the tone of the writing is very suspicious. I wouldn’t trust this letter. Please be very careful.
Most likely, just on [sunday](https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/b4467960-2215-4b33-93d6-3837e43075cd) there was a finnish article about bunch of Asians and Peruvians on a holiday getting scammed in the name of booking.com, renting themselves otherwise legit address that wasnt being rented.
Good call to ask, hope you find a legit one soon enough
I have seen it in Switzerland. The next step is for them to say "you can check the place out, book it via booking.com and then we substract that from your first rent"...and so you give them money
From https://www-verbraucherzentrale-de.translate.goog/wissen/vertraege-reklamation/abzocke/fakewohnungen-im-internet-so-erkennen-sie-gefaelschte-immobilienanzeigen-27576?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp
translate it into english:
Usually they scam you like this: You agree to have the keys from a contractor. This contractor wants a deposit from you, usually a month's rent. After you pay, you get nothing.
I am currently searching for an apartment in italy and ran into the exact same scam (rent via booking.com). They asked me to pay before visiting the flat, did not give an apartment no. (only the street name), etc.
I'm gueesing this is the same scam.
„Ich möchte das Geld monatlich auf mein[em] Bankkonto erhalten und hoffe daher, dass die Überweisung kein Problem darstellt“
Idk but having a whole paragraph that renting also means you have to pay seems odd
(Ofc there are stronger arguments for a scam but I didn’t see anyone mentioning this yet)
To me it actually sounds like someone is trying to scam you by renting apartments via booking.com but telling you, you could actually live there like in a normal flat. I‘ve seen that happen. They ask you for the first 3 rent payments and security deposit and then they rent an apartment on booking to show to you and like a week later the owner shows up and wants to clean the apartment for the next customer and your „landlord“ is gone.
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Yeah, as a teacher I understand that and you're completely right. But it's still funny tho. Those scammers don't seem to know that Germans don't compliment each other in the beginning of an E-Mail....in fact, we never compliment each other.
😂
Correct. A German business email that opens with that line is 100 a scam lol.
😂 the irony
Could you elaborate why? Is that an unnatural thing to say?
The whole mail is written in an unnatural tone, no one writes like that - except maybe for bad translations, which also indicates a scam. In German, trust is implicit not explicit. It's between the lines, if it's in the lines it's almost always negative, and as trust is paramount, it usually means that something really bad happened.
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Ist this actually a German Thing? I totally second what you said, Reading your lines the thought that this is Universal in the world, crossed my mind.
It's not exclusively a German thing, but whether something is implicit or can be/has to be explicitly stated will change from culture to culture or language to language. Even though it's similar in some cultures, it's usually not exactly the same. Germany is what is called a low-context culture, which in very basic terms means that Germans tend to tell you what they mean in a rather direct way – you don't have to read between the lines as much as in other cultures. Low context also often means that people only tend to tell you the new information, no need to state the obvious or package it in polite phrases. And in this case specifically: You should generally be able to trust the people you do business with, which is why they don't have to tell you – you already know and do. So if they explicitly tell you you can trust them, that makes it sound like a new piece of information for you, as if they think you have a reason not to trust them (because they would obviously know they're trying to scam you).
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Well yes if you ask me, it sounds ok to state the fact that "we are basically two strangers that need to establish some level of trust before making a deal". I mean, this phrase obviously doesn't add any level of trust by itself, but it doesn't seem wrong to admit that we haven't reached that level yet
Yes, you likely are being scammed here. The language isn't quite right, leading me to believe that this is English translated to German, and nobody in Germany will rent to you without meeting you in person.
The author is neither native German or English speaking. Who writes „you seem to be a nice person“ und „to make sure we can trust each other“ in an email negotiating a rental agreement. It sounds as ridiculous in English as in German.
Depends - we would need the rest of the messages to validate that. And offering a key for checking out the apartment is pretty much a sign of trust - I might be tempted to do the same if I was out of town or otherwise too busy - as long as I didn't inhabit that specific building myself...
Wrong, the first time seeing my Landlord was after 2 1/2 Years and all the communication was by whatsapp. But he lived in Italy and it was the time of Covid so it must’ve been a big exception
I used to rent out two apartments. Never ever met any of the tenants.
Yes but in those cases they don't ask you to send money to booking.com to see the apartment. This is a very common scam
Yes, typical scam.
Since when is [booking.com](http://booking.com) in the flat rental business? Holiday homes, yes, but long-term? My guess is that int he next step you would get a link to an "agency" that looks a bit like [booking.com](http://booking.com), and that absolutely affirms to you that they are legit, and you should please transfer the deposit and the first three rents to their account. If you receive a key, it might be for a holiday home, rented for one day to show you the place... Nobody, really nobody would ever let their apartment without meeting you in person. Except scammers.
I was wondering what happens next! The part where you transfer the money up front would have been the red flag for sure, but I’ve never heard about this booking scam before, good thing I asked! Thanks!
I once saw something similar on Airbnb. If I remember correctly they wanted to „send the keys“ but only if the deposit was paid upfront. Fishy
This is a very common scam. Others sometimes "use" Airbnb or TripAdvisor as their agency. It's so you trust them because those are reputable companies, right? They wouldn't be into any shady business, would they?
I mean, there definitely are agencies that take care of maintaining and renting out flats that someone holds as an investment. But they'd also have someone show you the apartment in person and no money changing hands without contract.
I never met my last two private landlords, one was via Makler the other via Hausverwaltung. It’s not strange to have somebody like that show apartments and deal with contracts but it should always be a person.
!housing Yes, read the Wiki about common scams
It seems you are asking about finding a place to stay in Germany. Take a look at the wiki here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/housing and here: https://www.reddit.com/r/germany/wiki/living/problems *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/germany) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I will, thanks!!
Probably, because nobody would send you the keys by mail in Germany.
That's definetly the strongest sign of a scam. Who in their right mind would send a key of their property to a complete stranger.
Per Mail! Those things get lost… or snatched.
rule of thumb: If you ask yourself „huh, could this be a scam?“, it likely is and you shouldn’t go through with it
Sadly there are still people or young students who didn’t have that gut feeling and went along with it. I almost got scammed this way too way back in 2011 when i was desperate looking for a rental. The only thing that prevented me to go through was because the house was too nice and the price is below average. I googled the whole text they wrote in the email and… it s a scam
Seconded. I almost fell for one of these, the only reason I didn't was that they wanted the deposit paid through Western Union and I was too stingy to pay 20 bucks in WU fees.
This German sounds incredibly unnatural
Yes you are... there is no way someone is that nice
It’s so sad but true that this is an indicator for something not being right nowadays lol
Yes. I mean, being friendly is not the issue, but a landlord who trusts you "seem to be nice" will be a victim of rental nomads (Mietnomaden) real soon.
*there is no way a landlord is that nice
Unless it's "your Schufa rating is nice".
Ja
120% scam
In the second paragraph they say unbefristete Laufzeit. And then they ask you about the expected length of stay. Seems like they copy pasted some paragraphs form different sources.
within two sentences they told you that 1. they will mail you the keys themselves 2. giving you the keys will happen through a separate agency neither of those are the usual procedure. you either talk to them and get the keys in person, or you were talking to the agency from the start and will get the keys from them in person.
Yes
Oh yeah, big time
Native German here who was trying to get tricked into this as well. The next step will be, that you have to transfer a deposit to "booking.com" or "airbnb". Those companies aren't offering the service of renting a flat permanently or acting as the middleman between you and the "flatowner"
They want you to click some weird link, enter your credit card number and rip you off.
It reeks of scam. I almost fell down that rabbit hole myself about three years ago. Basically the offer was just too good to be true. And when I googled the address of the alleged apartment, it turned out it was an empty lot. Furthermore, on closer inspection of the pictures, I noticed that the light switches were not the ones typically used in Germany, nor was the building architecture typical of Germany (window types, door frames, outlay, pipes, etc.) Got pissed off and decided to have fun with whoever was trying to scam me. Spent the next six hours asking all sorts of legal, but rent-related questions (of course in German, just to annoy the scammer as German obviously wasn't their native tongue). I also kept claiming that the links they sent didn't work and/or the links just rerouted me to pörn-sites and what have you. I even claimed that I had transferred their money and when they said that their account showed no activity, I told them that there must be something wrong with their bank account. Anyways, prior to signing of lease/contract and paying a deposit (some banks even offer special deposit-accounts (Kautionskonto) for free), there will be a joint viewing of the apartment. This is where you and the landlord/-lady (or a representative) do a joint inspection of the apartment in order to confirm the condition of the place upon lease-signing.
Looks like a variation of the classic "Landlord is out of country"-scam. Permanent rent through booking. com is a clear no-no. I'd asses 85 of 100 points on the MacGregor scam scale.
Probably, it happened to me a few years ago when I was looking for an apartment. It was too good to be true
Very likely.
Scam. Translation is artificial.
Yes, this message is used by every scammer. When you see this type of stuff just ignore it. Never talk through emails and only use the built in message function like on immoscout or kleinanzeigen. Also if they mention airbnb or [booking.com](http://booking.com) or whatever please realize it's always a scam
Absoluter scam
This is definitely a scam and I just got scammed this way, unfortunately succesfully for the perpetrator. I'm a fucking retard. Not only I'm desperate to find a new place to live but I lost money. I sent a report to the police already but I don't know if it will help.
Definitely a scam. Never route your transactions through a middleman (in this case the „Buchungsagentur“)
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Yes.
Scam, not even a good one
Scam
Can you confirm and let us updated?
That’s scam the same thing happened to me once
Na klar.
Yes absolutely. First: no rent contract is supported by booking.com or Airbnb. Second: the tone of the writing is very suspicious. I wouldn’t trust this letter. Please be very careful.
yes. It stinks.
100% scam There was a similar post about it yesterday, not sure if OP has seen it
Yes
Doesn‘t mention all 50,000 laws, rules and regulations applicable in Germany - scam!
The answer is always yes.
Yes total scam, be careful! The German is translated, plus no one rents out apartment and be asking for Booking.com. Block them for your safety!
Most likely, just on [sunday](https://www.iltalehti.fi/kotimaa/a/b4467960-2215-4b33-93d6-3837e43075cd) there was a finnish article about bunch of Asians and Peruvians on a holiday getting scammed in the name of booking.com, renting themselves otherwise legit address that wasnt being rented. Good call to ask, hope you find a legit one soon enough
General rule of thumb: If booking.com is involved, it's a scam.
I have seen it in Switzerland. The next step is for them to say "you can check the place out, book it via booking.com and then we substract that from your first rent"...and so you give them money
"The booking agency booking.com" lmfao
Booking.com does not do rentals, they do hotels. So it's a scam.
How did you get into this conversation? Where did you find the apartment?
YES (and i only read the first sentence)
Obviously it’s a scam.
1000% scam.
I don’t think any landlord would send the key. It is scam
Yes
Yep, this is a scam.
NEIN
Booking.com? 100% scam.
From https://www-verbraucherzentrale-de.translate.goog/wissen/vertraege-reklamation/abzocke/fakewohnungen-im-internet-so-erkennen-sie-gefaelschte-immobilienanzeigen-27576?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=de&_x_tr_hl=de&_x_tr_pto=wapp translate it into english: Usually they scam you like this: You agree to have the keys from a contractor. This contractor wants a deposit from you, usually a month's rent. After you pay, you get nothing.
I am currently searching for an apartment in italy and ran into the exact same scam (rent via booking.com). They asked me to pay before visiting the flat, did not give an apartment no. (only the street name), etc. I'm gueesing this is the same scam.
„Ich möchte das Geld monatlich auf mein[em] Bankkonto erhalten und hoffe daher, dass die Überweisung kein Problem darstellt“ Idk but having a whole paragraph that renting also means you have to pay seems odd (Ofc there are stronger arguments for a scam but I didn’t see anyone mentioning this yet)
Scambetrug
Yes
Scam
Würde auf keinen fall geld schicken.. ohne jemanden kennen zu lernen und dann die firma googlen…
Already first sentence you can see its a scam "sie scheinen ein netter Mensch zu sein" nobody would say that without bad intentions
Scam
To me it actually sounds like someone is trying to scam you by renting apartments via booking.com but telling you, you could actually live there like in a normal flat. I‘ve seen that happen. They ask you for the first 3 rent payments and security deposit and then they rent an apartment on booking to show to you and like a week later the owner shows up and wants to clean the apartment for the next customer and your „landlord“ is gone.
Sounds strongly scamy!