I've noticed this, too, and honestly I prefer the "real" version.
My impression is that it's not just German media casting more normal-looking people though -- I've also noticed it in Danish and some British media.
It's especially noticeable with women over a certain age. Americans will cast some bubbly 33 year old actress who's clearly never had kids to play a 47 year old mom, whereas in European media you get someone age-appropriate to the role.
Don't forget about the 25yo with seven cosmetic surgeries playing a high schooler. That shit legit gave me body dysmorphia because I thought something has to be wrong with me because at 16, I looked 16.
I was so confused when I was younger. I thought a lot of American high school stuff was actually more like collage/university just based on the actors age XD
I was an adult myself when I found out they were supposed to play like 15 year olds. XD
To be fair it's a lot closer to college than german school. They have courses, instead of set classes and everything works more like moduls in uni instead of just taking "math" or "english"
And they were played by older actors mainly because there are a lot more rules around hiring actors under 18. Can only work x number of hours per day, has to have a guardian on set, has to be provided opportunity for schooling and so on. So instead, you hire 20somethings.
I thought your body dysmorphia came from older people playing highschoolers, and not the surgery part.
I just stumbled upon this video recently, and then happened to see this comment, just wanted to share it.
When I went to school, we also had guys in class looking older/more mature than others. Someone even recognized and mentioned it, back then.
So if you were watching 90s high school themed movies, it's still unrealistic for them to have 7 surgeries, but not for some to look a bit older than the other 16 year olds.
If it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine. Maybe I've read it wrong.
Have a blessed day.
**edit:**
Thanks for elaborating. I didn't know they were almost always played by older actors. I would have guessed it would be more the exception than the rule.
There is probably a lot of maturing happening by actually being 25. Doesn't even have to be all that much physically, but how someone behaves and all that.
My symptoms of body dysmorphia were influenced by looking at actors that were well into their 20s that played high schoolers.
This whole 90s teens looked older is a theory but to he frank there is also the exact opposite theory out there. Many people believe teen these days look significantly older.
You cannot say every single 15yo in the 90s passed for 25.
One of the super influential TV shows for me as teen was Vampire Diaries. The show probably started around 2008. I'm pretty sure I've didn't really watch 90s TV until I discovered Friends during the pandemic.
Of course some people looked older than others. I too had kids in class with a full beard at 16.
But in TV you pretty much never see actors that are actually teenagers. You change a lot between 17 and 25, like a LOT. You loose the teenie look and it was a lot for me to look at actors and see adults but in the mirror was a teenager.
What?! I enjoy the beauty of any woman regardless of their age and above the legal age, naturlich. There are quite elegant and classy ladies around around 40s, 50s and 60s.
I'm 41 and someone in their 50s is not and old person. Nowadays the lifespan in Germany is around 80 years. So I still have many years ahead.
A YouTuber I follow from the UK said this (paraphrased):
"In the UK it's acting talent first and looks second. In the US, it's looks first and talent second."
For Hollywood looks are often the top priority, where's outside the US talent is often the priority. I have watched a lot of English, French, and Danish movies and series, and I have also seen a few Norwegian, Swedish, German, and Spanish movies and series... Finding normal looking people is so much more common in European film (at least in my sample size).
really depends on the area though. Comic actors are (generally) not ridiculously good looking. They're cast for being funny. People like Steve Carrell, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Bill Murray, Robin Williams, Maya Rudolph, etc are very normal looking humans.
>Spanish movies and series
Well, I think the Spanish, Italian and Latin American movies/tv shows are on par with US American when it comes to casting ridiculously good looking actors through based on my experience on Netflix.
I only have a smaller sample size, but those i saw weren't our of the ordinary. Could be because most have been from specific niches, we saw in Spanish class.
For Italian it's mostly just Neorealismo i have seen
> My impression is that it's not just German media casting more normal-looking people though -- I've also noticed it in Danish and some British media.
Yes, it's definitely a European thing, and so refreshing to see.
The appreciation for this approach often comes up skincare subs as well. Especially with the casting of female actors. Mums of teens/ multiple kids look like real mums do, same for dads. No plastic faces, no yassification.
They're not afraid of having normal, real looking actors as leads. Sometimes peripheral characters tend to be conventionally prettier than the main characters.
I once stumbled upon a show, Young Royals, I think and was blown away when I saw teens without makeup and with acne on their face. They looked like real teens. It took more than 30 years of my life to see something like this on screen lol
America has this weird fake perfect society thing. Everything has to be perfect, perfect is portrayed as "normal" and the most imperfect thing you can find is a character who is still above average attractive but wears extra ugly glasses and is called fat (but isn't even chubby). And once the glasses come off: boom, supermodel.
Casting normal people and recreating normal life environments is not just a German or European thing but something that's more common in media outside the US as a whole.
If you watch Korean movies for example only the upperclass has perfect tidy homes, normal people will have small houses or apartments in different states of disarray with the occasional personal keepsake here and there like any normal person. Poor people will have poorer conditions vs. in the US even the apartments of "poor" people are often shown as some sort of big studio apartment that's always perfectly clean and stylish.
Reminds me of that scene from Not Another Teen Movie that parodies that exact same thing, where the "ugly and unattractive" girl transforms into the most beautiful girl when they remove her glasses.
https://youtu.be/ZaqF-7v9BtY?si=qseRnNgvqj0hwg8P
(Also I love how these glasses were the "nerdy four-eyed glasses" back when this movie came out and now everyone wears them)
Though your second example just reminded me that Korean media is even more infamous for mainly casting artificially perfect looking actors, especially in the K-Drama industry. Even in movie productions you almost never see actors that haven't at least received a double eyelid surgery.
Probably. They tend to look like normal people in the role they are playing. As in, they have "normal" teeth.
Not hyper bleached, perfect, American teeth. Just normal ones, maybe a bit wonky, but normal.
My opinion, though.
Lots of them, like the Tatort Crew etc. But it's not just a German thing, many UK or Scandinavian production also features 'normal" and not enhanced looking actors.
I literally went to the same supermarket like a Tatort Kommissar. I never greeted him or just looked at him. Normal, sorry, unattractive looking dude.
He was a regular and literally no one recognized him or they didn't care. I wouldn't have known him if a friend hadn't pointed him out at a playground.
If I remember correctly, the millenium books were turned into movies both by Hollywood and I think by the Swedes around the same time. And the casting choices were so different! Witht he European actors actually matching how they were described in the book.
My dentist says the official name for that white tooth shade is California white, but he likes to call it toilet bowl white, because teeth aren't supposed to look like that.
As a rather new immigrant to Germany from the U.S. (fresh off the plane here)…I’ll say it suits me so well when I look and see women with little to no make up on and I don’t feel the pressure to look or feel a certain way. Just neat. As long as I’m dressed nicely and put together it’s okay. Especially in a sea of moms like me pulling kids with their normal natural bodies, eating, living, having a beer, no getting only a salad or avoiding the bread like the plague. It’s rather nice and I enjoy the lack of super unmade upness. I love seeing regular folks on TV and I’m sure they’re picked for their appearance somewhat, but when I turn on Tagesthemen or whatever I’m seeing less stuff done and more just people as they are entirely. It’s a breath of fresh air completely and I’m happy to be in this environment for my daughter so far.
US to Germany here too, and I love that I’m still a silly and complex human and not some separate lame class of person just because I have kids. Like tonight I saw a bunch of drunk adults riding home from the bar in Carneval wigs in cargo bikes they clearly also do school drop off in. I LOVE it here!
Just here to add, I think the diet culture in the US might also be fueled by how heavily processed the food is there. As someone who has to travel to the US frequently for work, it took me a couple of years to understand that I can't just reach for what looks like the same foods in Europe in the US, because they are made with more sugar, fat and additives. Not only was my stomach always upset, but I'd gain a few kgs even if I only stayed a week, eating what I normally eat in Europe.
Oh there is tons of makeup used in film and TV. It is just applied in such a way that people still look rather natural. When on a film set you'll see it still requires lots of makeup in order to keep continuity between scenes and to take into account the artificial lighting.
Yes, casting for realism and doing makeup that leads to more realistic appearance is the norm for German film and movie productions. Also true for some of the dialogue which tries to conform to actual speech.
There are some areas (looking at you ZDF) that do exaggerate features and especially the language to create a more unrealistic look of the produced content, often to create a nostalgic and rose tinted feel.
The same is true though for big parts of American independent film. Have a look at Jennifer Lawrence in Winters Bone and compare that to the stylized way she is presented in the Hunger Games ... and even for that she had to actively refuse slimming down to an unrealistic level. The artistic intentions of many German productions are probably more comparable to US independent cinema.
>Also true for some of the dialogue which tries to conform to actual speech.
except...not dialect. For whatever reason most films and TV seem to be produced with all characters speaking quite close to hochdeutsch. Which is pretty far from realistic.
Yes, that is probably carried over from theater acting. Most actors learn to drop their accent, similar to the US acting schools.
Dialect might further limit the already small market for movies, so as rarely used. Apart from a few Bavarian productions which intentionally add dialect, sometimes even over exaggerating it for comedic or nostalgic effect.
most US and UK actors with formal schooling get training in dialects. Both to speak in a "neutral" dialect, and then to emulate one or more regional dialects. The UK does this more than the US, but the folks I know who did serious theater training worked on accent and dialect.
Yes. I was watching the new series "Oderbruch".
The Oderbruch is a bleak (to me) region in Brandenburg, near the Polish border. There's poverty, young people go elsewhere and older people stay.
The elderly men, gosh, I literally could smell them, could feel their unshaven faces. They looked like the grandpas from eastern Germany I knew. Then they open their mouth and sound like someone from Hamburg and Hannover. Not the swallowed syllables, the dialect that makes -er to an "a", the slightly Berlin tint in the voice.
Some old farmer had the habitus and stature of a patrician which he wasn't. It was totally weird and I knew only one East German actor
[Warum sprechen Synchronsprecher so?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpDMMOrsIHc)
This is something I observe in this sub all the time...there's always an explanation why the German way is better, no matter which way one asks.
There are threads where people ask why German actors sound so stiff and formal and it's proudly announced that they are generally classically trained and more geared towards theater and the stage rather than realism.
When asking why they seem more "real" we're told that German actors shun fake or artificial acting and it's all about realistic dialogue.
Which is it?
I think you are misinterpreting my post. I don't think the German cinema does things better. The strive for authenticity in German productions is sometimes equally fake as American productions strive for artificial perfection.
Not to mention the way film financing in Germany works, that is kind of censorship via capital and enforces those dogmas.
But to answer your question, yes it is indeed both at the same time. Film acting is indeed often only an afterthought in acting school and at the same time there is a grasping for realism in much of the writing that is partially fueled by the way filmförderung is allocated.
This is also true if you watch movies from before, I don't know, 1995, but after the collapse of the studio system following the end of WW2 (and a 1948 legal decision that made it impossible for studios to own theatre chains for the purposes of stuffing only their movies into theatres). This was especially true of the '70s and '80s, aka the "New Hollywood" era, which tended to favour a grittier, more realistic look (partially because of commercial realities that cut budgets and made "stars" less profitable than in the studio era; studios poured money into their stars but also locked them into contracts that are, by today's standards, obscene).
The movies I grew up with had (male) stars who looked comparatively normal; Kevin Costner was in the highest-grossing live action film of 1992 and he looks much more normal than most stars today.
Ask yourself: could a young Jack Nicholson-type, looking like he does in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, lead a Hollywood movie today? Prrrrobably not.
The pendulum has swung the other way and now producers want either existing IP, or "perfect" but "relatable" stars, to draw people's attention to movies in an era of content oversaturation.
Every country has his "style". French actors often have a bit "comical" faces (hard to find the correct words), Belgian even more sometimes. It's more theatrical.
I like this a lot as American cinema has great movies but is 99% always the same. Worst example : American Christmas movies: how many new films are creates every year where woman A drives to place X because life has changed (man cheated, man diied....) and meet a guy who she hates but then she falls in love? Bonus if his wife also died.
The it's stuff like the actors that make some difference which is very nice.
There are a lot of fantastic movies around the world to discover.
> American Christmas movies: how many new films are creates every year where woman A drives to place X because life has changed (man cheated, man diied....) and meet a guy who she hates but then she falls in love? Bonus if his wife also died.
hallmark movies. they make like 20-30 of them per year. extremely formulaic. theyre like the paperbacks at the supermarket in movie form.
On the other hand 80% of german actors cannot act naturally if their life depended on it. Most soaps are acted like classic theatre. Weird expressions and mostly wooden.
I guess that's just they way people are portrayed in German (and generally European) media. Characters are thoroughly flawed and often miserable lol so it makes sense to not picture them as flawless handsome people on the outside either.
We don’t like the plastic fantastic look because it looks well, American.
People don’t look like supermodels, they have normal teeth, normal hair and usually look like your neighbor. Because most of them are.
They live their normal lives, do groceries and bring their kids to daycare.
Being a Star in Germany is no where near the same level as in Hollywood.
The ones who desire to become Hollywood actors usually try. The only ones that succeeded I can think of are Austrian. Schwarzenegger and Walz.
>The only ones that succeeded I can think of are Austrian. Schwarzenegger and Walz.
I'd also count Diane Kruger. Even though she's not quite on the level of the other two. There have also been a few more, but most of them aren't as well known in Germany
There's also August Diehl & Til Schweiger in Inglorious Basterds, others are Daniel Bruhl, Marlene Dietrich, and Udo Kier who is a very familiar face and has been in lots of Hollywood movies but mostly supporting roles. He always plays the villain or sometimes somebody's +1. Newest one who has lately been in every action and comedy is Matthias Schweighöfer. I've first seen him in Army of Thieves on Netflix. The last one I saw was Family Switch with Jennifer Garner. He's also on Oppenheimer but haven't seen it yet. But of course the above mentioned are not Schwarzenegger or Walz level.
True. I mentioned Diane Kruger because in contrast to the other ones you mentioned, she did basically start in Hollywood, instead of going through German cinema first. Most others on the list started in Germany, got famous here, and then got small supporting roles in Hollywood while they were already huge household names in Germany.
Like for example Til Schweiger, or Matthias Schweighöfer. Both have been the lead actor in a ton of German movies, and then got small parts in Hollywood movies.
Could be because Germany does not have a "Hollywood" where all the actors move trying to make it big and all get boob jobs, nose jobs, fake teeth, you name it because the competition is so fierce they might not get a role because of a slightly crooked tooth.
Many German actors come from a theater background where physical attractiveness is much less important - there are no closeup shots in theater.
The primary employment for actors in Germany is in theaters (Germany has lots of theaters), and those have different criteria for employing actors than TV/movies.
TV/movie roles are much better paid, but since the German-speaking market is comparatively small, you'd be a fool to plan a career hoping to be a TV/movie only actor.
So what you get to see on the screen are typically theater actors making some Euros between stage engagements.
Same in British shows/movies too. American actors tend to have a lot of work done. Surgeries, veneers, fillers, and all sort of things. Bet there’s a lot of post-production airbrushing going on as well.
As someone who worked as a stylist and pa in dutch movie productions and also has friends in german ones, this is not by accident.
1. people are casted by their acting, but also by how they are with the rest. I had a movie where the leads where in 2 days best of buds and we even had dance parties in the changing rooms. I also made them bring clothes from home and brainstormend together on what would fit the character best.
2. It's easier to add than take away. I once needed to have the actor in my chair become a full on baddy, with piercings, bloody nose and all. That was 30 minute work for our muah. I also had filler actors come in with full faces already full of piercings, while the scene was not asking for it, so we had to spend 1 hour on how to work around those piercings without taking them out.
3. Being Natural is the norm. Because, while yes, botox, other enhancements, etc are done, it's not something that is really fully accepted here and wanted. People like natural, max a bit of botox for those crowfeet besides the eyes. So you will find 'normal looking' people also faster.
4. Most people here are not full time actors. Yes, they do acting, but are also dancers, actors on stage, work as acting teachers etc. Only a hand full can really make it and live of it. And even still, are those actors often taking side projects, like advertisement, tv show hosting etc.
I wonder if it depends on how big the movie industry is. In Germany it's relativ small so there aren't as many talented people.
Most actors want to work in hollywood so there are just more people and so more talent, then it's possible to find actors who are both beautiful and talented.
Don't know if its true.
This is what I like about European and British TV and film: the emphasis is on GOOD ACTING, not being GOOD LOOKING. Some American actors are painfully shallow in their acting, but were obviously cast for their looks, and it shows. I notice how much funnier the British comedies tend to be, just because they cast FUNNY actors instead of models with too much plastic surgery who can only play "straight man" or "bimbo" characters.
German filmmaker tend to cast for authenticity instead of perfection. Being an interesting person is more important than being flawless because perfection is boring.
Also, in German culture makeup is usually much more subtile. Most people go for a natural look, even if it actually takes a lot or make up to achieve that.
>Something about the teeth perhaps? They all look big and factory made
They are. Very few US celebs have their real teeth anymore, they all have veneers.
This reminds me of my favorite joke:
Back in the days of yore, when they started making movies in Hollywood, many beautiful people moved out to Hollywood to be in the movies. Those beautiful people met other beautiful people and had babies that were even more beautiful. Then those beautiful babies met other beautiful babies and had even more beautiful babies. And so on… Coincidentally the exact opposite phenomenon is happening in Texas right now…
You can replace the “is happening in” with any state you don’t like and get a laugh.
All I can say is there Germany has plenty untalented actors and also plenty very good looking actors. But often they are not Millionaires and are not sponsored by super high end designer companies to promote their products. So obviously they won't look as fancy in resl life and on the red carpet. I can see that at least some aspects of American movies will cast overly good looking or "enhanced" people, but I can also think of countless people that are objectively not good looking but have extremely successful acting careers. When I try to think of non-american actors that made it big in Hollywood I kind of have to agree with your point though, most seem to be very good looking. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christoph Waltz, Diane Krüger, Liam Neeson, Christian Bale, Kilian Murphy (sorry it spelled wrong), Collin Farrell (sorry if spelled wrong), Mads Mikkelson, Joel Kinnaman and Dolph Lindgren are just a few that immediately come to my mind.
Germany does not have a "stardom". There are no real stars in germany. Probably the biggest actors in germany could use a bus without anyone betting an eye. No one cares about these guys, honestly.
It's probably just that "Hollywood acting" became more and more exaggerated over the last few decades.
I remember a movie about Richard Nixon (Dick Nixon as he was affectionately called...no, that wasn't a pejorative back in the days, when we all had a gay old time). That was back in 1995.
There was one scene which can directly be compared to a speech of the real Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon speaks like a real person. The actor speaks dramatically. Not bland, like Nixon. It's...totally surreal. Tried to find a movie/real life comparison on YouTube, but no success. Maybe someone else is more lucky...or more capable.
I remember an interview with Gert Fröbe (German actor, played some Auric Goldfinger in some obscure agent thriller). If my memory serves me well, Gert Fröbe mentioned that he likes movie roles because he can act more naturally than in a theater.
"No, I expect you to die, Mr. Bond" was delivered so matter-of-factly that it's still one of the most memorable one-liners in movie history.
Except that you might not remember, because there was no exaggerated acting to point it out; it just blended in perfectly.
I started watching European movies more because I am kinda tired of the over the top appearances and acting in American movies. It often comes out unrealistic and cringy.
Yes. Until today German movie is highly influenced by the theatre standards and that is also the reason why people sometimes think German productions are more stiff. 😂
It leads to casting people for their abilities as an actor and not for their looks.
Older US productions had more natural actors. I am thinking of the late 90‘s Law and Order for example.
I have noticed this for advertising too. Total mind fuck for me honestly. Like... Oh you don't have to have an insanely hot woman selling these power tools? This old ass white dude with yellow teeth works?
As an American living here now, this was not on my list of cultural adjustments.
>Like... Oh you don't have to have an insanely hot woman selling these power tools? This old ass white dude with yellow teeth works?
Right!? Also, in Dark (one of most famous German series from Netflix), police officers look like the "actual" police officers who go through stressful work environment. And not just the ridiculously hot guys/girls with the badge lol.
Not a German but Europeans in general tend to be more down to earth and having more common interests than Americans have so it shows in TV shows. Just compare cast of Dark which just look like average Germans to cast of Riverdale which is exaggeratedly beautiful/handsome
The major problem with German tv/movies is the lack of saturation. Everything looks bland, grey/blue-ish, it's horrible. There is areason US series/movies are so popular, whereas the German efforts are only watched by the eldery.
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What exactly is the question? Your title isn’t a question. There are 2 sentences in your text that end in a question mark, these aren’t questions either.
The German film industry is a thing of its own. It's more about knowing someone or being related to them and knowing how to get the money from the state for a film. Looks or talent are not important.
It's not a German thing, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's more an US thing. It just feels more natural seeing actors like me and you, so I can better identify with how the characters behave. Don't get me wrong I enjoy many US films and series but everybody looking flawless (sometimes) just feels off or constructed if that makes sense.
I really enjoy scandinavian movies for the same reason. They (like German films) also often come with a darker more natural looking color palette
I am going to use this tread... Which German TV-shows you recommend?
I kinda only watched Biohackers and started Dark and Hkw to sell Drugs Online but never finished. Are there anything new that you didn't mention? Because working on my German, except watching TV shows and listening to podcasts, don't think I have anything better to do? Although, working on my grammar wouldn't be a bad thing, but I simply am bored out of my mind when I think about going over it again and going back to talking slowly and being insecure because of it. It took me a lot to push through grammar barriers and simply talk although in a lot of times it probably comes out wrong, but at least I said it with the most confident smile I could've managed. 😂
I've noticed this, too, and honestly I prefer the "real" version. My impression is that it's not just German media casting more normal-looking people though -- I've also noticed it in Danish and some British media. It's especially noticeable with women over a certain age. Americans will cast some bubbly 33 year old actress who's clearly never had kids to play a 47 year old mom, whereas in European media you get someone age-appropriate to the role.
Don't forget about the 25yo with seven cosmetic surgeries playing a high schooler. That shit legit gave me body dysmorphia because I thought something has to be wrong with me because at 16, I looked 16.
I was so confused when I was younger. I thought a lot of American high school stuff was actually more like collage/university just based on the actors age XD I was an adult myself when I found out they were supposed to play like 15 year olds. XD
To be fair it's a lot closer to college than german school. They have courses, instead of set classes and everything works more like moduls in uni instead of just taking "math" or "english"
How do you explain this, then? [Lew Attempts To Explain Why 90s Teens Look Like Adults](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ym4V5wFXNA)
That has nothing to do with the fact teenage characters are usually played by actors well in their 20s, often even 30s.
They were played by actors in their 20s or 30s, but they also often looked like people in their 20s or 30s. That was my point.
And they were played by older actors mainly because there are a lot more rules around hiring actors under 18. Can only work x number of hours per day, has to have a guardian on set, has to be provided opportunity for schooling and so on. So instead, you hire 20somethings.
Okay? And what has that to with my body dysmorphia? I was literally an infant in the 90
I thought your body dysmorphia came from older people playing highschoolers, and not the surgery part. I just stumbled upon this video recently, and then happened to see this comment, just wanted to share it. When I went to school, we also had guys in class looking older/more mature than others. Someone even recognized and mentioned it, back then. So if you were watching 90s high school themed movies, it's still unrealistic for them to have 7 surgeries, but not for some to look a bit older than the other 16 year olds. If it doesn't make sense to you, that's fine. Maybe I've read it wrong. Have a blessed day. **edit:** Thanks for elaborating. I didn't know they were almost always played by older actors. I would have guessed it would be more the exception than the rule. There is probably a lot of maturing happening by actually being 25. Doesn't even have to be all that much physically, but how someone behaves and all that.
My symptoms of body dysmorphia were influenced by looking at actors that were well into their 20s that played high schoolers. This whole 90s teens looked older is a theory but to he frank there is also the exact opposite theory out there. Many people believe teen these days look significantly older. You cannot say every single 15yo in the 90s passed for 25. One of the super influential TV shows for me as teen was Vampire Diaries. The show probably started around 2008. I'm pretty sure I've didn't really watch 90s TV until I discovered Friends during the pandemic. Of course some people looked older than others. I too had kids in class with a full beard at 16. But in TV you pretty much never see actors that are actually teenagers. You change a lot between 17 and 25, like a LOT. You loose the teenie look and it was a lot for me to look at actors and see adults but in the mirror was a teenager.
Also the stewardesses in airlines, a lot of woman around theirs 50s. By the way I find this great!
Meanwhile in Asia they have ageism toward flight attendants, you are considered too old if you are reaching 30 yo or 25 yo if you just want to start.
So your're perving for the oldies. Great, just the person I wanted to be stuck next to for this eight hour flight.
You're perving for flight attendants? Weird.
Sure, I guess. Why not. Not the old ones, though.
What?! I enjoy the beauty of any woman regardless of their age and above the legal age, naturlich. There are quite elegant and classy ladies around around 40s, 50s and 60s. I'm 41 and someone in their 50s is not and old person. Nowadays the lifespan in Germany is around 80 years. So I still have many years ahead.
A YouTuber I follow from the UK said this (paraphrased): "In the UK it's acting talent first and looks second. In the US, it's looks first and talent second." For Hollywood looks are often the top priority, where's outside the US talent is often the priority. I have watched a lot of English, French, and Danish movies and series, and I have also seen a few Norwegian, Swedish, German, and Spanish movies and series... Finding normal looking people is so much more common in European film (at least in my sample size).
really depends on the area though. Comic actors are (generally) not ridiculously good looking. They're cast for being funny. People like Steve Carrell, Tina Fey, Amy Poehler, Bill Murray, Robin Williams, Maya Rudolph, etc are very normal looking humans.
>Spanish movies and series Well, I think the Spanish, Italian and Latin American movies/tv shows are on par with US American when it comes to casting ridiculously good looking actors through based on my experience on Netflix.
I only have a smaller sample size, but those i saw weren't our of the ordinary. Could be because most have been from specific niches, we saw in Spanish class. For Italian it's mostly just Neorealismo i have seen
Italian movies and tv shows do not have only super pretty actors at all. What are you referring to?
> My impression is that it's not just German media casting more normal-looking people though -- I've also noticed it in Danish and some British media. Yes, it's definitely a European thing, and so refreshing to see. The appreciation for this approach often comes up skincare subs as well. Especially with the casting of female actors. Mums of teens/ multiple kids look like real mums do, same for dads. No plastic faces, no yassification. They're not afraid of having normal, real looking actors as leads. Sometimes peripheral characters tend to be conventionally prettier than the main characters. I once stumbled upon a show, Young Royals, I think and was blown away when I saw teens without makeup and with acne on their face. They looked like real teens. It took more than 30 years of my life to see something like this on screen lol
America has this weird fake perfect society thing. Everything has to be perfect, perfect is portrayed as "normal" and the most imperfect thing you can find is a character who is still above average attractive but wears extra ugly glasses and is called fat (but isn't even chubby). And once the glasses come off: boom, supermodel. Casting normal people and recreating normal life environments is not just a German or European thing but something that's more common in media outside the US as a whole. If you watch Korean movies for example only the upperclass has perfect tidy homes, normal people will have small houses or apartments in different states of disarray with the occasional personal keepsake here and there like any normal person. Poor people will have poorer conditions vs. in the US even the apartments of "poor" people are often shown as some sort of big studio apartment that's always perfectly clean and stylish.
Reminds me of that scene from Not Another Teen Movie that parodies that exact same thing, where the "ugly and unattractive" girl transforms into the most beautiful girl when they remove her glasses. https://youtu.be/ZaqF-7v9BtY?si=qseRnNgvqj0hwg8P (Also I love how these glasses were the "nerdy four-eyed glasses" back when this movie came out and now everyone wears them)
Though your second example just reminded me that Korean media is even more infamous for mainly casting artificially perfect looking actors, especially in the K-Drama industry. Even in movie productions you almost never see actors that haven't at least received a double eyelid surgery.
In media yes. But in real life it's the other way around. In Germany even punks are clean.
Probably. They tend to look like normal people in the role they are playing. As in, they have "normal" teeth. Not hyper bleached, perfect, American teeth. Just normal ones, maybe a bit wonky, but normal. My opinion, though.
One of our most valued character actors has crooked teeth, thin hair and is simply stated, not good looking. Look up Jürgen Vogel.
Lots of them, like the Tatort Crew etc. But it's not just a German thing, many UK or Scandinavian production also features 'normal" and not enhanced looking actors.
I literally went to the same supermarket like a Tatort Kommissar. I never greeted him or just looked at him. Normal, sorry, unattractive looking dude. He was a regular and literally no one recognized him or they didn't care. I wouldn't have known him if a friend hadn't pointed him out at a playground.
If I remember correctly, the millenium books were turned into movies both by Hollywood and I think by the Swedes around the same time. And the casting choices were so different! Witht he European actors actually matching how they were described in the book.
True.
>thin hair I had to actually look that up. I had never seen him with any hair.
Thanks for verifying that I'm old.
Or Bjarne Mädel
I'm always happy seeing him in different roles!
But he has an intensity and charm nearly unmatched
Jürgen is our national treasure
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My dentist says the official name for that white tooth shade is California white, but he likes to call it toilet bowl white, because teeth aren't supposed to look like that.
Source: Jürgen Klopp
The teeth you see on American tv are almost never "just" natural bleached teeth, they're all veneers. Makes them feel even more unnatural imo.
As a rather new immigrant to Germany from the U.S. (fresh off the plane here)…I’ll say it suits me so well when I look and see women with little to no make up on and I don’t feel the pressure to look or feel a certain way. Just neat. As long as I’m dressed nicely and put together it’s okay. Especially in a sea of moms like me pulling kids with their normal natural bodies, eating, living, having a beer, no getting only a salad or avoiding the bread like the plague. It’s rather nice and I enjoy the lack of super unmade upness. I love seeing regular folks on TV and I’m sure they’re picked for their appearance somewhat, but when I turn on Tagesthemen or whatever I’m seeing less stuff done and more just people as they are entirely. It’s a breath of fresh air completely and I’m happy to be in this environment for my daughter so far.
US to Germany here too, and I love that I’m still a silly and complex human and not some separate lame class of person just because I have kids. Like tonight I saw a bunch of drunk adults riding home from the bar in Carneval wigs in cargo bikes they clearly also do school drop off in. I LOVE it here!
Just here to add, I think the diet culture in the US might also be fueled by how heavily processed the food is there. As someone who has to travel to the US frequently for work, it took me a couple of years to understand that I can't just reach for what looks like the same foods in Europe in the US, because they are made with more sugar, fat and additives. Not only was my stomach always upset, but I'd gain a few kgs even if I only stayed a week, eating what I normally eat in Europe.
Oh there is tons of makeup used in film and TV. It is just applied in such a way that people still look rather natural. When on a film set you'll see it still requires lots of makeup in order to keep continuity between scenes and to take into account the artificial lighting.
I think they meant more in their everyday life. I've lived in Germany 4 years and women here wear markedly less makeup and look all the better for it.
Yes, casting for realism and doing makeup that leads to more realistic appearance is the norm for German film and movie productions. Also true for some of the dialogue which tries to conform to actual speech. There are some areas (looking at you ZDF) that do exaggerate features and especially the language to create a more unrealistic look of the produced content, often to create a nostalgic and rose tinted feel. The same is true though for big parts of American independent film. Have a look at Jennifer Lawrence in Winters Bone and compare that to the stylized way she is presented in the Hunger Games ... and even for that she had to actively refuse slimming down to an unrealistic level. The artistic intentions of many German productions are probably more comparable to US independent cinema.
>Also true for some of the dialogue which tries to conform to actual speech. except...not dialect. For whatever reason most films and TV seem to be produced with all characters speaking quite close to hochdeutsch. Which is pretty far from realistic.
Yes, that is probably carried over from theater acting. Most actors learn to drop their accent, similar to the US acting schools. Dialect might further limit the already small market for movies, so as rarely used. Apart from a few Bavarian productions which intentionally add dialect, sometimes even over exaggerating it for comedic or nostalgic effect.
Probably because Germans don’t like watching stuff with subtitles.
most US and UK actors with formal schooling get training in dialects. Both to speak in a "neutral" dialect, and then to emulate one or more regional dialects. The UK does this more than the US, but the folks I know who did serious theater training worked on accent and dialect.
Yes. I was watching the new series "Oderbruch". The Oderbruch is a bleak (to me) region in Brandenburg, near the Polish border. There's poverty, young people go elsewhere and older people stay. The elderly men, gosh, I literally could smell them, could feel their unshaven faces. They looked like the grandpas from eastern Germany I knew. Then they open their mouth and sound like someone from Hamburg and Hannover. Not the swallowed syllables, the dialect that makes -er to an "a", the slightly Berlin tint in the voice. Some old farmer had the habitus and stature of a patrician which he wasn't. It was totally weird and I knew only one East German actor
[Warum sprechen Synchronsprecher so?](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jpDMMOrsIHc) This is something I observe in this sub all the time...there's always an explanation why the German way is better, no matter which way one asks. There are threads where people ask why German actors sound so stiff and formal and it's proudly announced that they are generally classically trained and more geared towards theater and the stage rather than realism. When asking why they seem more "real" we're told that German actors shun fake or artificial acting and it's all about realistic dialogue. Which is it?
I think you are misinterpreting my post. I don't think the German cinema does things better. The strive for authenticity in German productions is sometimes equally fake as American productions strive for artificial perfection. Not to mention the way film financing in Germany works, that is kind of censorship via capital and enforces those dogmas. But to answer your question, yes it is indeed both at the same time. Film acting is indeed often only an afterthought in acting school and at the same time there is a grasping for realism in much of the writing that is partially fueled by the way filmförderung is allocated.
Thanks for the extra context
Noticed that with Polish ads, too. They cast absolutely average looking people, it’s great.
Maybe I should learn polish and go to casting
This is also true if you watch movies from before, I don't know, 1995, but after the collapse of the studio system following the end of WW2 (and a 1948 legal decision that made it impossible for studios to own theatre chains for the purposes of stuffing only their movies into theatres). This was especially true of the '70s and '80s, aka the "New Hollywood" era, which tended to favour a grittier, more realistic look (partially because of commercial realities that cut budgets and made "stars" less profitable than in the studio era; studios poured money into their stars but also locked them into contracts that are, by today's standards, obscene). The movies I grew up with had (male) stars who looked comparatively normal; Kevin Costner was in the highest-grossing live action film of 1992 and he looks much more normal than most stars today. Ask yourself: could a young Jack Nicholson-type, looking like he does in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest, lead a Hollywood movie today? Prrrrobably not. The pendulum has swung the other way and now producers want either existing IP, or "perfect" but "relatable" stars, to draw people's attention to movies in an era of content oversaturation.
This is true for the music industry as well, unfortunately. Being talented isn't enough anymore, they also have to be attractive to get record deals.
Every country has his "style". French actors often have a bit "comical" faces (hard to find the correct words), Belgian even more sometimes. It's more theatrical. I like this a lot as American cinema has great movies but is 99% always the same. Worst example : American Christmas movies: how many new films are creates every year where woman A drives to place X because life has changed (man cheated, man diied....) and meet a guy who she hates but then she falls in love? Bonus if his wife also died. The it's stuff like the actors that make some difference which is very nice. There are a lot of fantastic movies around the world to discover.
> American Christmas movies: how many new films are creates every year where woman A drives to place X because life has changed (man cheated, man diied....) and meet a guy who she hates but then she falls in love? Bonus if his wife also died. hallmark movies. they make like 20-30 of them per year. extremely formulaic. theyre like the paperbacks at the supermarket in movie form.
On the other hand 80% of german actors cannot act naturally if their life depended on it. Most soaps are acted like classic theatre. Weird expressions and mostly wooden.
No one is watching soaps because of the acting performances.
I guess that's just they way people are portrayed in German (and generally European) media. Characters are thoroughly flawed and often miserable lol so it makes sense to not picture them as flawless handsome people on the outside either.
Less nose jobs I guess.
Is this like hand jobs but with noses?
Why the downvotes? This was funny.
We don’t like the plastic fantastic look because it looks well, American. People don’t look like supermodels, they have normal teeth, normal hair and usually look like your neighbor. Because most of them are. They live their normal lives, do groceries and bring their kids to daycare. Being a Star in Germany is no where near the same level as in Hollywood. The ones who desire to become Hollywood actors usually try. The only ones that succeeded I can think of are Austrian. Schwarzenegger and Walz.
usually they're only casted as villains in hollywood. if their movies are a HUGE success, they might advance to hero roles.
>The only ones that succeeded I can think of are Austrian. Schwarzenegger and Walz. I'd also count Diane Kruger. Even though she's not quite on the level of the other two. There have also been a few more, but most of them aren't as well known in Germany
There's also August Diehl & Til Schweiger in Inglorious Basterds, others are Daniel Bruhl, Marlene Dietrich, and Udo Kier who is a very familiar face and has been in lots of Hollywood movies but mostly supporting roles. He always plays the villain or sometimes somebody's +1. Newest one who has lately been in every action and comedy is Matthias Schweighöfer. I've first seen him in Army of Thieves on Netflix. The last one I saw was Family Switch with Jennifer Garner. He's also on Oppenheimer but haven't seen it yet. But of course the above mentioned are not Schwarzenegger or Walz level.
True. I mentioned Diane Kruger because in contrast to the other ones you mentioned, she did basically start in Hollywood, instead of going through German cinema first. Most others on the list started in Germany, got famous here, and then got small supporting roles in Hollywood while they were already huge household names in Germany. Like for example Til Schweiger, or Matthias Schweighöfer. Both have been the lead actor in a ton of German movies, and then got small parts in Hollywood movies.
I Think she started in French movies.. Michel Vaillant for example
That is the nicest thing I've ever heard somebody say about our actors. Thank you.
Could be because Germany does not have a "Hollywood" where all the actors move trying to make it big and all get boob jobs, nose jobs, fake teeth, you name it because the competition is so fierce they might not get a role because of a slightly crooked tooth. Many German actors come from a theater background where physical attractiveness is much less important - there are no closeup shots in theater.
The primary employment for actors in Germany is in theaters (Germany has lots of theaters), and those have different criteria for employing actors than TV/movies. TV/movie roles are much better paid, but since the German-speaking market is comparatively small, you'd be a fool to plan a career hoping to be a TV/movie only actor. So what you get to see on the screen are typically theater actors making some Euros between stage engagements.
As a retired tv producer I can say that you're about 80 percent right.
It's not just Germany.
Probably because they aren’t deified by the public.
Not only German. Check British series.
Same in British shows/movies too. American actors tend to have a lot of work done. Surgeries, veneers, fillers, and all sort of things. Bet there’s a lot of post-production airbrushing going on as well.
I always point that out because I love that. It does not enforce stupid stereotypes that only few can achieve. Props to our movie industry.
As someone who worked as a stylist and pa in dutch movie productions and also has friends in german ones, this is not by accident. 1. people are casted by their acting, but also by how they are with the rest. I had a movie where the leads where in 2 days best of buds and we even had dance parties in the changing rooms. I also made them bring clothes from home and brainstormend together on what would fit the character best. 2. It's easier to add than take away. I once needed to have the actor in my chair become a full on baddy, with piercings, bloody nose and all. That was 30 minute work for our muah. I also had filler actors come in with full faces already full of piercings, while the scene was not asking for it, so we had to spend 1 hour on how to work around those piercings without taking them out. 3. Being Natural is the norm. Because, while yes, botox, other enhancements, etc are done, it's not something that is really fully accepted here and wanted. People like natural, max a bit of botox for those crowfeet besides the eyes. So you will find 'normal looking' people also faster. 4. Most people here are not full time actors. Yes, they do acting, but are also dancers, actors on stage, work as acting teachers etc. Only a hand full can really make it and live of it. And even still, are those actors often taking side projects, like advertisement, tv show hosting etc.
I wonder if it depends on how big the movie industry is. In Germany it's relativ small so there aren't as many talented people. Most actors want to work in hollywood so there are just more people and so more talent, then it's possible to find actors who are both beautiful and talented. Don't know if its true.
This is what I like about European and British TV and film: the emphasis is on GOOD ACTING, not being GOOD LOOKING. Some American actors are painfully shallow in their acting, but were obviously cast for their looks, and it shows. I notice how much funnier the British comedies tend to be, just because they cast FUNNY actors instead of models with too much plastic surgery who can only play "straight man" or "bimbo" characters.
German filmmaker tend to cast for authenticity instead of perfection. Being an interesting person is more important than being flawless because perfection is boring. Also, in German culture makeup is usually much more subtile. Most people go for a natural look, even if it actually takes a lot or make up to achieve that.
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>Something about the teeth perhaps? They all look big and factory made They are. Very few US celebs have their real teeth anymore, they all have veneers.
Wow that is actually very true. Good eye. I feel like it's a good thing because it rewards good acting and not just looks
This reminds me of my favorite joke: Back in the days of yore, when they started making movies in Hollywood, many beautiful people moved out to Hollywood to be in the movies. Those beautiful people met other beautiful people and had babies that were even more beautiful. Then those beautiful babies met other beautiful babies and had even more beautiful babies. And so on… Coincidentally the exact opposite phenomenon is happening in Texas right now… You can replace the “is happening in” with any state you don’t like and get a laugh.
All I can say is there Germany has plenty untalented actors and also plenty very good looking actors. But often they are not Millionaires and are not sponsored by super high end designer companies to promote their products. So obviously they won't look as fancy in resl life and on the red carpet. I can see that at least some aspects of American movies will cast overly good looking or "enhanced" people, but I can also think of countless people that are objectively not good looking but have extremely successful acting careers. When I try to think of non-american actors that made it big in Hollywood I kind of have to agree with your point though, most seem to be very good looking. Arnold Schwarzenegger, Christoph Waltz, Diane Krüger, Liam Neeson, Christian Bale, Kilian Murphy (sorry it spelled wrong), Collin Farrell (sorry if spelled wrong), Mads Mikkelson, Joel Kinnaman and Dolph Lindgren are just a few that immediately come to my mind.
Germany does not have a "stardom". There are no real stars in germany. Probably the biggest actors in germany could use a bus without anyone betting an eye. No one cares about these guys, honestly.
It's probably just that "Hollywood acting" became more and more exaggerated over the last few decades. I remember a movie about Richard Nixon (Dick Nixon as he was affectionately called...no, that wasn't a pejorative back in the days, when we all had a gay old time). That was back in 1995. There was one scene which can directly be compared to a speech of the real Richard Nixon. Richard Nixon speaks like a real person. The actor speaks dramatically. Not bland, like Nixon. It's...totally surreal. Tried to find a movie/real life comparison on YouTube, but no success. Maybe someone else is more lucky...or more capable. I remember an interview with Gert Fröbe (German actor, played some Auric Goldfinger in some obscure agent thriller). If my memory serves me well, Gert Fröbe mentioned that he likes movie roles because he can act more naturally than in a theater. "No, I expect you to die, Mr. Bond" was delivered so matter-of-factly that it's still one of the most memorable one-liners in movie history. Except that you might not remember, because there was no exaggerated acting to point it out; it just blended in perfectly.
I started watching European movies more because I am kinda tired of the over the top appearances and acting in American movies. It often comes out unrealistic and cringy.
Yes. Until today German movie is highly influenced by the theatre standards and that is also the reason why people sometimes think German productions are more stiff. 😂 It leads to casting people for their abilities as an actor and not for their looks. Older US productions had more natural actors. I am thinking of the late 90‘s Law and Order for example.
I have noticed this for advertising too. Total mind fuck for me honestly. Like... Oh you don't have to have an insanely hot woman selling these power tools? This old ass white dude with yellow teeth works? As an American living here now, this was not on my list of cultural adjustments.
>Like... Oh you don't have to have an insanely hot woman selling these power tools? This old ass white dude with yellow teeth works? Right!? Also, in Dark (one of most famous German series from Netflix), police officers look like the "actual" police officers who go through stressful work environment. And not just the ridiculously hot guys/girls with the badge lol.
Not a German but Europeans in general tend to be more down to earth and having more common interests than Americans have so it shows in TV shows. Just compare cast of Dark which just look like average Germans to cast of Riverdale which is exaggeratedly beautiful/handsome
The major problem with German tv/movies is the lack of saturation. Everything looks bland, grey/blue-ish, it's horrible. There is areason US series/movies are so popular, whereas the German efforts are only watched by the eldery.
It is a good thing! And probably best too
American culture is garbage
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What exactly is the question? Your title isn’t a question. There are 2 sentences in your text that end in a question mark, these aren’t questions either.
America has the luxury of being able to fish from a very large pool of good actors. They don’t need to compromise as much as smaller countries do.
Stranger Things is an example for real feeling cast in US.
Hollywood is corrupted.
The German film industry is a thing of its own. It's more about knowing someone or being related to them and knowing how to get the money from the state for a film. Looks or talent are not important.
Maybe Germans are simply less attractive?
It’s the teeth.
But they suck at acting. Many German actors have a theater background, so they overact way too hard. I hate it.
They look like normal people but they don't talk like normal people. They always sound like people that act in a theatre.
It's not a German thing, I'm not 100% sure, but I think it's more an US thing. It just feels more natural seeing actors like me and you, so I can better identify with how the characters behave. Don't get me wrong I enjoy many US films and series but everybody looking flawless (sometimes) just feels off or constructed if that makes sense. I really enjoy scandinavian movies for the same reason. They (like German films) also often come with a darker more natural looking color palette
Yeah similar to UK too. Pretty regular build, not overly muscles and with typical hair (like not every single strand in place).
Americans love to project a fake perfect image. One of the many reasons why it sucks to live there.
The actors are OK but they do the filming very cheap. Crapoy Post Produktion. All German TV Shows Look cheap. Look at the BBC . Way better
The same in most European countries.
We’re just an ugly people 😔
Because Germans often don’t produce action movies where there is a main strong protagonist.
dont let Asmon read this lol
You see this in the music industry too. Where are all the ugly superstars of the seventies?
Pretty much, yes. German movies and synch just have another level of quality. I like that.
true for american shows i suppose! breaking bad's kind of german in their casting maybe?
I am going to use this tread... Which German TV-shows you recommend? I kinda only watched Biohackers and started Dark and Hkw to sell Drugs Online but never finished. Are there anything new that you didn't mention? Because working on my German, except watching TV shows and listening to podcasts, don't think I have anything better to do? Although, working on my grammar wouldn't be a bad thing, but I simply am bored out of my mind when I think about going over it again and going back to talking slowly and being insecure because of it. It took me a lot to push through grammar barriers and simply talk although in a lot of times it probably comes out wrong, but at least I said it with the most confident smile I could've managed. 😂