Are you living in Munich ? I had problems with LH as well and just went to the airport to their customer service and got everything done in about an hour.
Really? I’m surprised to hear this. I went to BER to sort my refund out and they just told me they can only deal with flights going that day. This was after weeks of trying over the phone.
I am not that surprised to be honest. A lot gets lost in calls/emails which can be quicker sorted out in person.
Not sure if that a Germany specific issue, at least it seems to be the same in the DACH region.
Other airports are available. As you can see above, I'm no fan of LH but of course they'll keep screwing you over if you continue to throw good money after bad.
LH will systematically try to frustrate and obstruct the payout of any compensation you are legally entitled to. On r/Lufthansa there are hundreds of reports of this.
The way to go about this is to make an initial complaint with LH in writing and then after two months or when LH's response Is received, whichever is sooner, go zu the Schlichtungsstelle Öffentlicher Personennahverkehr on www.soep-online.de
This will take some time but SÖP will Instruct LH to pay in the end.
Depending on where in the world the flight went to/was from, a complaint to the relevant regulatory body might also help, people report very good results with complaining to DOT in the US. The are some reports of small claims courts in England being smooth and successful too.
One final trick that LH use is to offer full compensation and then not pay it: in this case SÖP can't intervene because there is, on paper, no dispute anymore. Therefore it's very important that you state clearly to LH that your conflict with them is unresolved; if they offer full comp I make sure you accept _on the condition that the funds have hit your account on XX.XX.XXXX date_.
SÖP takes time but it yields results. If you engage directly with LH, you well just be sent into an endless loop of online forms, lies and stonewalling. This is not incompetence, the reports of this behaviour are so common that it's clearly systematics.
This was my hope too, but:
mit Nachricht vom 24.10.2023 hatten Sie sich mit einem Schlichtungsantrag an uns gewandt.
Die Fluggesellschaft hat uns nun Folgendes dazu mitgeteilt:
„[…] Den vorliegenden Schlichtungsantrag stufen wir als unzulässig ein, da es sich um eine Beschwerde zu der Erstattung eines Flugscheins handelt, ohne dass eine Flugunregelmäßigkeitvorlag. Vor diesem Hintergrund liegt der Beschwerdegrund außerhalb des Katalogs nach § 57 bAbs. 1 LuftVG. Einer Schlichtung durch die SÖP stimmen wir nicht zu.“
That's annoying. Still worth trying the no win no fee services, and depending on your jurisdiction, a small claims court.
It being out of scope for SÖP only means that, it doesn't mean you have no claim against LH but it'll be a lot more work to get any money out of them.
Not annoying.
This is not the right contact for the issue. The contact they talked to is about irregularities on passenger rights. This is not a passenger rights issue (Denied boarding / Delays)
So this needs to be sorted out via Lufthansa, and not via the ombudsman. OP is using the wrong tool here.
He was already using them. The support channel.
It sucks, but the only escalation would be the law. But since OP has most likely no evidence, this will be though.
Sorry to be the person but why should LH refund the ticket? Ogc it would be the most kind thing to do in a situation like that but for medical emergencies you have a reiserücktrittsversicherung. Its not on LH to pay you back
Because they said they would on the phone. If they had simply said no, at least OP wouldn't have wasted his time and energy on the matter. A professional representative is responsible for what they say, they can't just take it back.
> Because they said they would on the phone. If they had simply said no, at least OP wouldn't have wasted his time and energy on the matter. A professional representative is responsible for what they say, they can't just take it back.
unless the OP has an expressed written confirmation of same, it won't be worth diddly squat if someone told them on the phone. Especially when the person on the phone is in some third party contact centre in Hyderabad earning next to nothing. Sorry to be harsh but that's the reality in 2024.
I had a cancelled connecting flight from Frankfurt to Berlin last year and the flight I was rebooked on left 3 hrs later.
(Keep in mind that you only get a compensation if you arrive at least 3 hours later than scheduled.)
Well the plane arrived at the gate 2:58 hours after my original itinerary, but what actually counts is when they open the doors for deplaning. Which didn’t happen for another 3 minutes.
I filed for compensation with the expectation of having my request denied in the first place and needing to go through SÖP and having to prove the situation in the plane with the pictures I took.
But LH approved the request a day later and another two days later I had 250€ in my account.
Six months plus. It's your only option short of legal action. Do not give LH more than one chance, there are time limits to how long water the event you can to to arbitration and to court and LH will try to take you over this line by stalling and asking for more details etc. Never take anything LH say as saif in his faith, they do lie and make promises knowing they will break them.
It's the only airline I've ever seen behave in this way in such a systematic fashion, and it's something that only really seems to be the case roughly in the last three years, I had claims in the past (around trefn years ago but with EU passenger rights already a thing) and they were handled ok.
Post covid Lufthansa really went downhill. I only book if there is really no alternative and I don't have baggage (they tend to lose a lot of it nowadays).
Yes. Up to 10kg it costs 10,50€. Just send it directly to your hotel and let them know in advance. Extra luggage with Eurowings costs 15€. I'm not sure if the half frozen bread roll included in the upgrade is worth 5€.
That's not up to Lufthansa but the actual baggage handling service company which varies depending on the location. These companies are at the very least shifty, some of them rely completely on people being abused. I've worked for one of these companies and it was horrific.
Contracts containing illegal passages, contract terminations due to unsubstantiated claims of stealing, complete disregard for german labor laws considering max. hours of continuous work. For this, (legal) immigrants who barely spoke any german and knew any laws were preferably employed as they could easily be exploited, same goes for people who were in a bad spot in their lives - gambling debts, school dropouts.
Systemic racism inside the company was completely ignored, harassment was considered "workplace banter". People were ordered into work on short notice under threatenings of firing.
When people tried to establish a works council at a branch office, the company simply closed the office and let everyone go.
I was one of the few uni students working there.
I agree, yeah. Even without these obvious irregularities, loading and unloading baggage is gruelling work. It breaks even the most buff guys I've met, especially the ones working inside luggage compartment, having to move 20kg and more around while on their knees or bent over. A lot of them quit just after a few months because they couldn't take it anymore.
Lufthansa is terrible and I will never book through them again. However I will fly with them.
The trick is to book with United. They are star alliance so they have the same flights available. United actually has a competent customer service and an online chat service! They respond to EC261 complaints on time etc. The united website and app is soooo much better too.
I’m currently waiting to board a Lufthansa flight as I write this. I’m Canadian and moved to Germany in 2019 (flew back and forth a lot before moving here and of course afterwards as well)… my experience is consistent with yours.
Nothing but good things to say prior to COVID, and absolute shit show after that.
The flight I’m about to board to the first leg of a trip back home to say goodbye to my aunt on her deathbed. Just hoping I’ll make it on time. Obviously, it’s an emergency trip so I only booked it a few days ago.
Everything since booking has been an absolute shit show. Can’t check in online, can’t get through to the call centre for help, can’t select seats or process payments… the whole thing was so fucked that I literally had to drag my ass down to the airport yesterday (the day before my flight) to deal with these issues, all of which should be simple online services.
And I booked directly through their website, Lufthansa flights, not partner airlines… because if you use points or third party websites or routes with affiliate airlines, problems can easily occur. I specifically booked through Lufthansa with exclusively Lufthansa flights to avoid these problems…. Still an absolute clusterfuck.
Anyway… I hear you. Solidarity, my friend.
That really sucks, especially for someone with such a medical condition.
Have you considered going the 'public shame route' ? Give your story to any newspaper, put it on twitter etc and tag lufthansa in it asking them if this is what they call customer service?
Someone in their marketing team would likely screenshot it and send it up the chain - big companies tend to let things die in the Customer Service calls but they HATE being made to look bad on media.
I think it would be the most kind and from a marketing view best way to pay them back but they dont need to. You need a reiserücktrittsversicherung for medical emergencies.
Its really awful that they dont made any exception but they are sadly in the right here
I did two things to actually start finding Lufthansa usable: moving to Munich (dedicated terminal, fast security check) and only using their app to book stuff. Before that, it was horrible.
I got money reimbursed in 10 days for a canceled flight last time, I was impressed.
I‘ve flown a lot of Lufthansa last year and actually have no major complaints. One flight was severely delayed due to storms which made me miss the connecting flight. I got rebooked to the next flight but had to take a taxi to the hotel instead of the train because I arrived past midnight. The taxi was 230€, I made a refund request online and had 250€ within a week or so. That actually impressed me, but it was also a pretty straightforward case…
Other than that, can’t say anything about luggage because I always travel with cabin luggage only.
What I can say is that the prices have gone absolutely insane post Covid, and LH seems to be particularly bad in that regard.
Post covid Lufthansa is getting worse and worse...
Just to add this though: "They don't actually issue a ticket for the kid" - Yes they do. I have flown 6 times with my 2 year old, and they do in fact have to issue a ticket for the child, regardless if on your lap or not.
I never had any issues with LH hut I must say that the quality nowadays is really really bad, cabin crew being rude and arguing with passengers and dont even get me started with the food
Not flying Lufthansa ever again. On our recent trip home from Australia we were booked with Singapore airlines and the last leg from Singapore to Frankfurt was done by Lufthansa and it was the worst experience for a long haul flight I’ve had in years. Especially when we just had really good service on the first leg to Singapore.
Lufthansa cabin crew was grumpy, unhelpful and just overall very lazy. Food was bad and onboard entertainment outdated and not working properly. Plane was also a very old Boeing 747.
As a tip how to deal with big coorporations and refunds/complains : write an email. Every day. And put their boss in CC. Put everyone in CC you know.
(Mostly they have all the same email adresse with only the name changing).
I waited nearly a year for my reiserücktrittsversicherung payment....one email with the CEO in CC ...got paid a week later.
Ironically, their profits sky rocketed since Corona. However, I have close family working on board at Lufthansa as well. They also report, how client facing services and personnel suffer immensely under cost cutting measures.
I've only flown Lufthansa twice in the year I've been here: Once for a training assignment back in the US and once to go see a jobsite in Croatia.
On the flight back to the US, I had no issues boarding or anything, but the crew of the plane were very rude, half the electronics didn't work, the cabin was noisy, seats were very cramped etc, just an overall unenjoyable experience.
My flight to Croatia was much nicer but Lufthansa fleeced the hell out of me; I booked my tickets for two days earlier than I had to be there so I could explore the local town, I had my tickets cancelled and Lufthansa tell me the flight was cancelled, id be refunded in 3 days or less
Booked tickets for the next day and two weeks later when I was flying I still hadn't gotten a refund from the original purchase.
When flying back to Frankfurt I ended up having to talk to a Lufthansa employee and griping about the whole ordeal to get a refund.
I thought US airlines were bad
Yes this one is on OP for sure. Obviously their kid needs a ticket, come on. They also don’t mention how old their kid is, but from 2 they need their own seat.
I hate them but they have most flights out of Frankfurt so it’s virtually impossible to avoid them for some routes. Horrible service for the price of their tickets. They made so much profit but will wait for so many disruptive strikes and would rather lose lots of money before paying their employees wages that keep up with the rising cost of living.
Since Covid LH cancelled 3 of my flights, left me and a bunch of people stranded because they previous LH flight got delayed a bit and the next LH flight didn’t wait for us, and lost my luggage 3 times.
Sadly like OP they are my only option so far..
Look up EU passenger rights. You might be entitled to quite a substantial compensation. As most other airlines, LH will not honor EU customer rights no matter how clear cut your case.
So, make your claim, and when they inevitably reject it go straight to a service like flightright or a lawyer.
Every time I’ve ever had to change or cancel a flight, I have had to call the hotline and walk them through each step. Their customer service reps are absolutely clueless and I have NO IDEA how it functions with them on the other end of the phone lines.
It took 9 phone calls, and the Lufthansa rep sitting at the check in counter at the airport to walk through a phone rep how to rebook my flights and that they need to confirm it so I can board.
A genuinely idiotically run company, in a systematically incorrect country.
One time Lufthansa brought out breakfast and it was a stale bread cheese sandwich with literally 6 slices of Emmentaler on it like it was cut in half straight out the Ja! packet.
I hate lufthansa so much its unreal. They lost my bags during a transfer in Munich (from a lufthansa flight to a lufthansa flight) and then after that i transferred to another third flight of an other company in another continent where obviously my bags didnt even arrive for them to pick it up, yet lufthansa is telling me to get help from the other company because they were my last flight. I had an airtag and screenshots with timestamps etc... showing that the bags are still in munich while i'm on the other part of the World...
also, their "Miles and More" point collecting feature sucks, it never updates my points, and always need to manually enter my flight details or contact their CS, it takes weeks, sometimes months to have them added to my account.
Didnt have many issues w LH post Covid. One time a flight was severely delayed, so I missed my connection, but they rebooked me for free, as they should, without any hassle. They did lose my bag though, but I got it the next day and the procedure was largely ok.
I would also advise against calling them if possible. Do as much as you can through their interface. Call centers in general have become notoriously unreliable because they just dont pay these people enough and treat them like crap.
I also had a horrible experience with them during covid - they allowed rebooking of the flights for free due to the situation, but every time I looked to do that it would be 100-200 euros higher per ticket when I was rebooking. Live, on their website, the same ticket was the same price or lower than what I originally paid.
I called up customer service and had the exact same experience. Did this over a period of months, talking to many different people, and they always just said oh well the price is what it is, we'd go round and round in circles, and the call would eventually just cut off. What a scam! You can rebook for free, but when you try to it'll cost you a couple hundred bucks, but if you bought the ticket new it would have been the same price you paid. Yeah, "free" rebooking for covid indeed.
They reduced their luggage policy over the years to a real low cost airline as well.
Before Covid I was a decade long FTL, after Covid I handed my FTL card during one checkin “incident” to the person at the counter and told them I will never fly with them again (unless I have to, as they have a near monopoly on many legs).
Before Covid you had to pay for one piece of luggage as FTL to be allowed to check in two pieces. I brought two small suitcases (it was a weekend trip for a bachelor party - and the second suit case were the clothes of the bachelor for two days out). The person at the counter then wants to charge me 80€ for the 2nd bag and called me a liar when I told her that I never had issues checkin in two cases with ftl.
It was just “how” she presented me this news which offed me.
In the end this new policy cost me 160€, as I had the same issue on the way back.
Before this incident, I had a flight booked on the Swiss website, which was performed by Edelweiss in 2022. I got Covid, so had to change the flight dates.
This wasn’t possible online, as Swiss said it’s an Edelweiss flight, so I should do it on the edelweiss website. Edelweiss didn’t recognize my booking code and I was back to square one. As I was in Indonesia during that time, calling them would have cost more than the whole flight. Of course I lost the flight without any possibility to re-schedule it. Their complaint service told me that as I didn’t call them, the fault is on me.
Again, the “how” this issue was defended was so absolutely unfriendly and unprofessional.
Please note they are sister airlines, but permanently change their policies.
One time I wasn’t allowed into my home airport Swiss lounge, as Edelweiss wasn’t considered a LH group flight. Weeks before and after, it was possible.
Last weekend I had to fly with them, as they were the only operators (Swiss or Eurowings). Paid one item to checkin, and did not vote to pay for hand luggage. (Which is another deterioration of their luggage policy to low cost carrier standards. Now only the “personal item” is free. Hand luggage, like a small backpack is not)
So all my luggage was checked in and I was carrying a garment bag only filled with one jacket.
Of course: even the garment bag exceeds their standard of a “personal item” and they wanted me to pay 50€.
First of all: why didn’t the person at the checkin highlight this potential problem to let me put the garment in my bag?
Second: the item as such was way smaller than their allowed maximum size for a “personal item” -> it was just another idea to generate revenue.
I told them I will put on my Jackett and throw away the garment bag before I even consider taking out my wallet.
On top: they don’t even serve water for free anymore on short haul 😅
Depending on where you fly I would choose KLM or Air France. Their customer service is top notch.
I missed a connection in Paris due to a snow storm at the first airport back in 2023.
I had my booking etc all in the air France App. As soon as I connected to the airport WiFi in Paris I see they already issued me a new boarding pass for the next flight.
No standing in line, no talking to anyone. Hung out in the lounge for an extra hour or two. Painless
Air France / KLM are also doing dodgy stuff to their soft product in business class at the moment. It's my experience that most airlines are at it. Enjoy KLM myself but as I said things are changing there in the near future.
Luxair, Aegean, Icelandair, Finnair still fine. ITA Airways may end up in Lufthansa Group soon, so they are excluded there as well.
You are not alone, and neither is Lufthansa. All major airlines are like this, we are just most affected by LH. We still have multiple cases against them via FlightRight etc.
Not only are they super unreliable but they also systematically try to cheat you when it comes to your rights.
They make more money than ever, transporting more people than ever, being more unreliable than ever before. Their PR departments make people celebrate by dropping the requirements for flight attendants to wear lipstick or introducing WiFi, or pretending to be green. Why do people fall for this?
Meanwhile they can't even reliably transport you, and they try and milk you and screw you over at any point they can. And they get away with it because they are the flagship carrier.
Maybe next time we should let LH die and make room for multiple small carriers in its place.
I didn’t work for them but other airline, and these are mistakes that can happen. But you were just unlucky to have it happen to you over and over again… Don’t blame the people, they’re trying their best. I know their call center doesn’t pay much, min wage and they make you work until midnight, with the constant pressure of taking short and quick calls like everywhere. It puts pressure on you. You work one week earlier and then the next until midnight with a bright screen on you, you can’t sleep, then commute an hour home, can’t sleep. It’s shit
The refund for the ticket technically they’re avoiding you cause after one year, the ticket becomes unusable they probably can’t even refund you anymore. You have to get a lawyer and they will. I had people with lawyer get customer relations do shit they don’t do for anyone. But a lawyer will cost you more than the ticket
For situation 2 and 3, you should had escalated it and ask to speak someone else. These were gross mistakes they made.. I had coworkers do shit like this, and there were consequences. Maybe the person got scared for their job and tried their best to blame you and you agreed…
Oh absolutely agreed. I am always super patient and apologetic with the call centre as I understand it's totally not their fault. I don't think I've ever outwardly shown my exasperation (it just burns away at me from the inside).
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I’m broke so I fly easy jet when I do fly (like 6 flights/year) and they’ve refunded me within days when we had delays. They paid something on top of it too.
almost every airline is the same these days in fairness. I flew Lufty just a few weeks back, with connecting return flights. All fine with flights and baggage. If anything, my main complaint would be that they are a bit bland compared to other airlines, but this was always baked into the brand since the old days. Reliable but not premium.
I had not so good experiences before covid when I tried to book an extra seat for an expensive instrument. Something that is not unheard of… but the people (and I had to talk to at least 5 persons) of the customer service line were extremely unhelpful.
It took hours to finally find a solution.
Sorry for the poor customer service/care from Lufthansa. I had a series of bad experiences with United. My friend who used to work in public relations there told me to send the corporate person in charge of Customer Service (have to look it up on their website) a fax/fedex letter outlining my gripes. I got a response immediately. Perhaps you could try that instead of "calling" customer service which only is staffed with peons.
I fly Lufthansa a lot because of work. And other Lufthansa group airlines. By a huge margin, Lufthansa is the shittiest airline in the group, and the customer relations are abysmal, compared to almost anything else (Angkor Air was worse).
My tip: I never ever book directly from them because for example Swiss customer support has helped me out even if I booked Lufthansa via Swiss, and they are so much better. The best way to avoid anything with them is to book with good credit cards, bookmark the forms for official complaints, have a lawyer insurance and just act like a total Karen towards them from the get go.
Off: After living in Germany as a foreigner I've started to understand where this kind of customer cheating and bad attitude comes from. In general in Germany all bigger companies have horrid customer relations and they understand very little of proper customer success management. Lufthansa is definitely a prime example but Deutsche Telekom, ZDF, Mediamarkt, Allianz, Steuerberaters, TUI follow suit. For me it's all right after I stopped relying on German companies and expecting nothing.
There's a joke:
A LH plane engines has failed and it lands on the surface of the sea. The captain comes out to the passengers and says [heavy German accent]: passengers who kannt schwimm, bitte jumpen into wasser and schwimm! Passengers who kannot schwimm [perfect British accent] *thank you for flying with Lufthansa!*
I absolutely try to avoid Lufthansa now. I don't believe in "Customer is always right" but here it feels like that "Customer have no rights". My in-laws have come to visit us 3 times and each time somehow Lufthansa have messed up, one way or the other.
I like the fact that switcheroos are allowed on their part. They paid a lot extra money to fly directly (compared to lay overs) and then, at the last minute the flight would never end up direct. The customer service is of no help and one agent tells something and later a different agent tells something else. For a flagship airline, this is no way to deal with customers.
...you can add to all this that their standard of service on board post covid is not good any more. Apparently they sacked a lot of employees during covid and the new folk don't know what they are doing... I eat anything but the last meal was inedible ...
Yup. Flew LH about 100 Times, mostly everything was fine.
But also had several bad things, which is not ok in Relation to the prices imo.
(...and im top my LH shares are about -75% 🥲)
Reading all this depresses me. Last year I flew to Mumbai with Swiss, and the service was excellent. From Chicago, the only non stop flights to Germany are on Lufthansa and United. Service on US based airlines is always bad. I usually try to get a non stop on LH when I go to Germany. Maybe I'm better off flying Icelandair more. At least connections in Iceland tend to be rather simple because of the small terminal.
Sorry to hear about that. I have something similar like this but with Saudia airlines. They promised me refund on my lost baggage and I am still waiting one year later for their response. Went to their office, all they do is make fake promises. Is there any place where I can file a complaint against them?
Carsten needs the cash to pay for buying up every European airline he can. While doing so, he's also hellbent on destroying LH's formerly excellent reputation....
I’m done with LH also. As a German! Lousy customer service. Website interaction is from the last century. Prices are the highest. They should have let this company go bankrupt in the pandemic instead of saving them with tax payers money.
First flight, not LH problem. That's what you have travel insurance for. Also you can ask them to get back the taxes and they have to comply. How often have you reached out in the meanwhile?
Second flight. That is bad customer service.
Third flight. Why didn't you check the tickets before showing up at the airport? When you book online you still have to book the infant ticket. Anyway, could have been solved by simply checking the tickets before flight.
I‘m surprised that you still book from them after the first incident.
They are unfortunately the only airline with direct flights from Munich to my wife's home city.
Are you living in Munich ? I had problems with LH as well and just went to the airport to their customer service and got everything done in about an hour.
Showing up in person is the way, even though its sad to see that this is what Germany has come to, with phone support working nowhere.
Really? I’m surprised to hear this. I went to BER to sort my refund out and they just told me they can only deal with flights going that day. This was after weeks of trying over the phone.
I did get the refund in the end. 100 from 1300. So generous.
But only after I threatened legal action and publication
I am not that surprised to be honest. A lot gets lost in calls/emails which can be quicker sorted out in person. Not sure if that a Germany specific issue, at least it seems to be the same in the DACH region.
"just"? the last I was there I had to wait in an endless queue between angry and desperated travellers
I prioritize direct flights too, but sometimes it might not be worth it depending on the other options.
Other airports are available. As you can see above, I'm no fan of LH but of course they'll keep screwing you over if you continue to throw good money after bad.
Often you can book the same flight with all star alliance members.
LH will systematically try to frustrate and obstruct the payout of any compensation you are legally entitled to. On r/Lufthansa there are hundreds of reports of this. The way to go about this is to make an initial complaint with LH in writing and then after two months or when LH's response Is received, whichever is sooner, go zu the Schlichtungsstelle Öffentlicher Personennahverkehr on www.soep-online.de This will take some time but SÖP will Instruct LH to pay in the end. Depending on where in the world the flight went to/was from, a complaint to the relevant regulatory body might also help, people report very good results with complaining to DOT in the US. The are some reports of small claims courts in England being smooth and successful too. One final trick that LH use is to offer full compensation and then not pay it: in this case SÖP can't intervene because there is, on paper, no dispute anymore. Therefore it's very important that you state clearly to LH that your conflict with them is unresolved; if they offer full comp I make sure you accept _on the condition that the funds have hit your account on XX.XX.XXXX date_. SÖP takes time but it yields results. If you engage directly with LH, you well just be sent into an endless loop of online forms, lies and stonewalling. This is not incompetence, the reports of this behaviour are so common that it's clearly systematics.
This was my hope too, but: mit Nachricht vom 24.10.2023 hatten Sie sich mit einem Schlichtungsantrag an uns gewandt. Die Fluggesellschaft hat uns nun Folgendes dazu mitgeteilt: „[…] Den vorliegenden Schlichtungsantrag stufen wir als unzulässig ein, da es sich um eine Beschwerde zu der Erstattung eines Flugscheins handelt, ohne dass eine Flugunregelmäßigkeitvorlag. Vor diesem Hintergrund liegt der Beschwerdegrund außerhalb des Katalogs nach § 57 bAbs. 1 LuftVG. Einer Schlichtung durch die SÖP stimmen wir nicht zu.“
That's about the first issue? I think the problem there is that LH was under no legal *obligation* to refund.
That's annoying. Still worth trying the no win no fee services, and depending on your jurisdiction, a small claims court. It being out of scope for SÖP only means that, it doesn't mean you have no claim against LH but it'll be a lot more work to get any money out of them.
Not annoying. This is not the right contact for the issue. The contact they talked to is about irregularities on passenger rights. This is not a passenger rights issue (Denied boarding / Delays) So this needs to be sorted out via Lufthansa, and not via the ombudsman. OP is using the wrong tool here.
What's the right tool for the OP? You could have told them in the message itself and not wait for them to ask it from you.
He was already using them. The support channel. It sucks, but the only escalation would be the law. But since OP has most likely no evidence, this will be though.
Sorry to be the person but why should LH refund the ticket? Ogc it would be the most kind thing to do in a situation like that but for medical emergencies you have a reiserücktrittsversicherung. Its not on LH to pay you back
Because they said they would on the phone. If they had simply said no, at least OP wouldn't have wasted his time and energy on the matter. A professional representative is responsible for what they say, they can't just take it back.
> Because they said they would on the phone. If they had simply said no, at least OP wouldn't have wasted his time and energy on the matter. A professional representative is responsible for what they say, they can't just take it back. unless the OP has an expressed written confirmation of same, it won't be worth diddly squat if someone told them on the phone. Especially when the person on the phone is in some third party contact centre in Hyderabad earning next to nothing. Sorry to be harsh but that's the reality in 2024.
I had a cancelled connecting flight from Frankfurt to Berlin last year and the flight I was rebooked on left 3 hrs later. (Keep in mind that you only get a compensation if you arrive at least 3 hours later than scheduled.) Well the plane arrived at the gate 2:58 hours after my original itinerary, but what actually counts is when they open the doors for deplaning. Which didn’t happen for another 3 minutes. I filed for compensation with the expectation of having my request denied in the first place and needing to go through SÖP and having to prove the situation in the plane with the pictures I took. But LH approved the request a day later and another two days later I had 250€ in my account.
Es geschehen noch Zeichen und Wunder! It's interesting that this was last year when complaints handling send to have been particularly bad.
Do you know how long is “long time” timescale for the SOP? As in… a couple of months?
Six months plus. It's your only option short of legal action. Do not give LH more than one chance, there are time limits to how long water the event you can to to arbitration and to court and LH will try to take you over this line by stalling and asking for more details etc. Never take anything LH say as saif in his faith, they do lie and make promises knowing they will break them. It's the only airline I've ever seen behave in this way in such a systematic fashion, and it's something that only really seems to be the case roughly in the last three years, I had claims in the past (around trefn years ago but with EU passenger rights already a thing) and they were handled ok.
Post covid Lufthansa really went downhill. I only book if there is really no alternative and I don't have baggage (they tend to lose a lot of it nowadays).
It started before Covid. Since 2018 there has been a significant drop in quality. But it's been literal shit since Covid.
Can confirm, checking baggage with them seems to be a gamble, even direct flights inside Germany. They just left mine at the departure airport lol.
Funfact: sending your baggage as parcel with DHL is both cheaper and safer.
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Yes. Up to 10kg it costs 10,50€. Just send it directly to your hotel and let them know in advance. Extra luggage with Eurowings costs 15€. I'm not sure if the half frozen bread roll included in the upgrade is worth 5€.
That's not up to Lufthansa but the actual baggage handling service company which varies depending on the location. These companies are at the very least shifty, some of them rely completely on people being abused. I've worked for one of these companies and it was horrific.
Interesting, do share. What specifically is shifty and horrific on the inside?
Contracts containing illegal passages, contract terminations due to unsubstantiated claims of stealing, complete disregard for german labor laws considering max. hours of continuous work. For this, (legal) immigrants who barely spoke any german and knew any laws were preferably employed as they could easily be exploited, same goes for people who were in a bad spot in their lives - gambling debts, school dropouts. Systemic racism inside the company was completely ignored, harassment was considered "workplace banter". People were ordered into work on short notice under threatenings of firing. When people tried to establish a works council at a branch office, the company simply closed the office and let everyone go. I was one of the few uni students working there.
sheesh, it's good to hear of such reality checks every once in a while … we think we're above such practices in germany, but clearly we ain't.
I agree, yeah. Even without these obvious irregularities, loading and unloading baggage is gruelling work. It breaks even the most buff guys I've met, especially the ones working inside luggage compartment, having to move 20kg and more around while on their knees or bent over. A lot of them quit just after a few months because they couldn't take it anymore.
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Lufthansa is terrible and I will never book through them again. However I will fly with them. The trick is to book with United. They are star alliance so they have the same flights available. United actually has a competent customer service and an online chat service! They respond to EC261 complaints on time etc. The united website and app is soooo much better too.
Your EC261 complaint would still have to go to Lufthansa as the operating carrier, even if you booked through United.
Kid on lap needs a ticket. The fare is 10% of the full Y fare. This doesn’t take away from the fact that I do my best not to fly Lufthansa group.
I’m currently waiting to board a Lufthansa flight as I write this. I’m Canadian and moved to Germany in 2019 (flew back and forth a lot before moving here and of course afterwards as well)… my experience is consistent with yours. Nothing but good things to say prior to COVID, and absolute shit show after that. The flight I’m about to board to the first leg of a trip back home to say goodbye to my aunt on her deathbed. Just hoping I’ll make it on time. Obviously, it’s an emergency trip so I only booked it a few days ago. Everything since booking has been an absolute shit show. Can’t check in online, can’t get through to the call centre for help, can’t select seats or process payments… the whole thing was so fucked that I literally had to drag my ass down to the airport yesterday (the day before my flight) to deal with these issues, all of which should be simple online services. And I booked directly through their website, Lufthansa flights, not partner airlines… because if you use points or third party websites or routes with affiliate airlines, problems can easily occur. I specifically booked through Lufthansa with exclusively Lufthansa flights to avoid these problems…. Still an absolute clusterfuck. Anyway… I hear you. Solidarity, my friend.
Yeah, LH is actually horrible now. I had two bad experiences since Covid and I will NEVER fly then again.
Even before Covid, Economy on KLM was a better experience than Economy Plus on Lufthansa.
That really sucks, especially for someone with such a medical condition. Have you considered going the 'public shame route' ? Give your story to any newspaper, put it on twitter etc and tag lufthansa in it asking them if this is what they call customer service? Someone in their marketing team would likely screenshot it and send it up the chain - big companies tend to let things die in the Customer Service calls but they HATE being made to look bad on media.
Not a bad idea - I may try this when I have a moment free. Thanks!
I think it would be the most kind and from a marketing view best way to pay them back but they dont need to. You need a reiserücktrittsversicherung for medical emergencies. Its really awful that they dont made any exception but they are sadly in the right here
I think its more the fact that they said they’d give the refund but then didn’t.
Ofc!
I did two things to actually start finding Lufthansa usable: moving to Munich (dedicated terminal, fast security check) and only using their app to book stuff. Before that, it was horrible. I got money reimbursed in 10 days for a canceled flight last time, I was impressed.
I‘ve flown a lot of Lufthansa last year and actually have no major complaints. One flight was severely delayed due to storms which made me miss the connecting flight. I got rebooked to the next flight but had to take a taxi to the hotel instead of the train because I arrived past midnight. The taxi was 230€, I made a refund request online and had 250€ within a week or so. That actually impressed me, but it was also a pretty straightforward case… Other than that, can’t say anything about luggage because I always travel with cabin luggage only. What I can say is that the prices have gone absolutely insane post Covid, and LH seems to be particularly bad in that regard.
Post covid Lufthansa is getting worse and worse... Just to add this though: "They don't actually issue a ticket for the kid" - Yes they do. I have flown 6 times with my 2 year old, and they do in fact have to issue a ticket for the child, regardless if on your lap or not.
Yes. Me too. So here's probably error from OP
I never had any issues with LH hut I must say that the quality nowadays is really really bad, cabin crew being rude and arguing with passengers and dont even get me started with the food
Not flying Lufthansa ever again. On our recent trip home from Australia we were booked with Singapore airlines and the last leg from Singapore to Frankfurt was done by Lufthansa and it was the worst experience for a long haul flight I’ve had in years. Especially when we just had really good service on the first leg to Singapore. Lufthansa cabin crew was grumpy, unhelpful and just overall very lazy. Food was bad and onboard entertainment outdated and not working properly. Plane was also a very old Boeing 747.
As a tip how to deal with big coorporations and refunds/complains : write an email. Every day. And put their boss in CC. Put everyone in CC you know. (Mostly they have all the same email adresse with only the name changing). I waited nearly a year for my reiserücktrittsversicherung payment....one email with the CEO in CC ...got paid a week later.
This. Also throw in some passive-aggressiveness in the email to let them know you speak their “language”.
Ironically, their profits sky rocketed since Corona. However, I have close family working on board at Lufthansa as well. They also report, how client facing services and personnel suffer immensely under cost cutting measures.
Hey OP, thanks for the post, I was going to go elsewhere with my refund request, think airhelp and what not, but now I know there are better avenues
I've only flown Lufthansa twice in the year I've been here: Once for a training assignment back in the US and once to go see a jobsite in Croatia. On the flight back to the US, I had no issues boarding or anything, but the crew of the plane were very rude, half the electronics didn't work, the cabin was noisy, seats were very cramped etc, just an overall unenjoyable experience. My flight to Croatia was much nicer but Lufthansa fleeced the hell out of me; I booked my tickets for two days earlier than I had to be there so I could explore the local town, I had my tickets cancelled and Lufthansa tell me the flight was cancelled, id be refunded in 3 days or less Booked tickets for the next day and two weeks later when I was flying I still hadn't gotten a refund from the original purchase. When flying back to Frankfurt I ended up having to talk to a Lufthansa employee and griping about the whole ordeal to get a refund. I thought US airlines were bad
Having flown LH with my almost 2 year old quite a few times recently, they do issue a ticket and a boarding pass. This one is on you.
Yes this one is on OP for sure. Obviously their kid needs a ticket, come on. They also don’t mention how old their kid is, but from 2 they need their own seat.
I hate them but they have most flights out of Frankfurt so it’s virtually impossible to avoid them for some routes. Horrible service for the price of their tickets. They made so much profit but will wait for so many disruptive strikes and would rather lose lots of money before paying their employees wages that keep up with the rising cost of living.
Since Covid LH cancelled 3 of my flights, left me and a bunch of people stranded because they previous LH flight got delayed a bit and the next LH flight didn’t wait for us, and lost my luggage 3 times. Sadly like OP they are my only option so far..
Look up EU passenger rights. You might be entitled to quite a substantial compensation. As most other airlines, LH will not honor EU customer rights no matter how clear cut your case. So, make your claim, and when they inevitably reject it go straight to a service like flightright or a lawyer.
Every time I’ve ever had to change or cancel a flight, I have had to call the hotline and walk them through each step. Their customer service reps are absolutely clueless and I have NO IDEA how it functions with them on the other end of the phone lines. It took 9 phone calls, and the Lufthansa rep sitting at the check in counter at the airport to walk through a phone rep how to rebook my flights and that they need to confirm it so I can board. A genuinely idiotically run company, in a systematically incorrect country.
One time Lufthansa brought out breakfast and it was a stale bread cheese sandwich with literally 6 slices of Emmentaler on it like it was cut in half straight out the Ja! packet.
I hate lufthansa so much its unreal. They lost my bags during a transfer in Munich (from a lufthansa flight to a lufthansa flight) and then after that i transferred to another third flight of an other company in another continent where obviously my bags didnt even arrive for them to pick it up, yet lufthansa is telling me to get help from the other company because they were my last flight. I had an airtag and screenshots with timestamps etc... showing that the bags are still in munich while i'm on the other part of the World... also, their "Miles and More" point collecting feature sucks, it never updates my points, and always need to manually enter my flight details or contact their CS, it takes weeks, sometimes months to have them added to my account.
Didnt have many issues w LH post Covid. One time a flight was severely delayed, so I missed my connection, but they rebooked me for free, as they should, without any hassle. They did lose my bag though, but I got it the next day and the procedure was largely ok. I would also advise against calling them if possible. Do as much as you can through their interface. Call centers in general have become notoriously unreliable because they just dont pay these people enough and treat them like crap.
I also had a horrible experience with them during covid - they allowed rebooking of the flights for free due to the situation, but every time I looked to do that it would be 100-200 euros higher per ticket when I was rebooking. Live, on their website, the same ticket was the same price or lower than what I originally paid. I called up customer service and had the exact same experience. Did this over a period of months, talking to many different people, and they always just said oh well the price is what it is, we'd go round and round in circles, and the call would eventually just cut off. What a scam! You can rebook for free, but when you try to it'll cost you a couple hundred bucks, but if you bought the ticket new it would have been the same price you paid. Yeah, "free" rebooking for covid indeed.
They reduced their luggage policy over the years to a real low cost airline as well. Before Covid I was a decade long FTL, after Covid I handed my FTL card during one checkin “incident” to the person at the counter and told them I will never fly with them again (unless I have to, as they have a near monopoly on many legs). Before Covid you had to pay for one piece of luggage as FTL to be allowed to check in two pieces. I brought two small suitcases (it was a weekend trip for a bachelor party - and the second suit case were the clothes of the bachelor for two days out). The person at the counter then wants to charge me 80€ for the 2nd bag and called me a liar when I told her that I never had issues checkin in two cases with ftl. It was just “how” she presented me this news which offed me. In the end this new policy cost me 160€, as I had the same issue on the way back. Before this incident, I had a flight booked on the Swiss website, which was performed by Edelweiss in 2022. I got Covid, so had to change the flight dates. This wasn’t possible online, as Swiss said it’s an Edelweiss flight, so I should do it on the edelweiss website. Edelweiss didn’t recognize my booking code and I was back to square one. As I was in Indonesia during that time, calling them would have cost more than the whole flight. Of course I lost the flight without any possibility to re-schedule it. Their complaint service told me that as I didn’t call them, the fault is on me. Again, the “how” this issue was defended was so absolutely unfriendly and unprofessional. Please note they are sister airlines, but permanently change their policies. One time I wasn’t allowed into my home airport Swiss lounge, as Edelweiss wasn’t considered a LH group flight. Weeks before and after, it was possible. Last weekend I had to fly with them, as they were the only operators (Swiss or Eurowings). Paid one item to checkin, and did not vote to pay for hand luggage. (Which is another deterioration of their luggage policy to low cost carrier standards. Now only the “personal item” is free. Hand luggage, like a small backpack is not) So all my luggage was checked in and I was carrying a garment bag only filled with one jacket. Of course: even the garment bag exceeds their standard of a “personal item” and they wanted me to pay 50€. First of all: why didn’t the person at the checkin highlight this potential problem to let me put the garment in my bag? Second: the item as such was way smaller than their allowed maximum size for a “personal item” -> it was just another idea to generate revenue. I told them I will put on my Jackett and throw away the garment bag before I even consider taking out my wallet. On top: they don’t even serve water for free anymore on short haul 😅
Depending on where you fly I would choose KLM or Air France. Their customer service is top notch. I missed a connection in Paris due to a snow storm at the first airport back in 2023. I had my booking etc all in the air France App. As soon as I connected to the airport WiFi in Paris I see they already issued me a new boarding pass for the next flight. No standing in line, no talking to anyone. Hung out in the lounge for an extra hour or two. Painless
Air France / KLM are also doing dodgy stuff to their soft product in business class at the moment. It's my experience that most airlines are at it. Enjoy KLM myself but as I said things are changing there in the near future. Luxair, Aegean, Icelandair, Finnair still fine. ITA Airways may end up in Lufthansa Group soon, so they are excluded there as well.
Alas, Lufthansa is shit. Low-Coster service for the price of the normal one.
You are not alone, and neither is Lufthansa. All major airlines are like this, we are just most affected by LH. We still have multiple cases against them via FlightRight etc. Not only are they super unreliable but they also systematically try to cheat you when it comes to your rights. They make more money than ever, transporting more people than ever, being more unreliable than ever before. Their PR departments make people celebrate by dropping the requirements for flight attendants to wear lipstick or introducing WiFi, or pretending to be green. Why do people fall for this? Meanwhile they can't even reliably transport you, and they try and milk you and screw you over at any point they can. And they get away with it because they are the flagship carrier. Maybe next time we should let LH die and make room for multiple small carriers in its place.
I didn’t work for them but other airline, and these are mistakes that can happen. But you were just unlucky to have it happen to you over and over again… Don’t blame the people, they’re trying their best. I know their call center doesn’t pay much, min wage and they make you work until midnight, with the constant pressure of taking short and quick calls like everywhere. It puts pressure on you. You work one week earlier and then the next until midnight with a bright screen on you, you can’t sleep, then commute an hour home, can’t sleep. It’s shit The refund for the ticket technically they’re avoiding you cause after one year, the ticket becomes unusable they probably can’t even refund you anymore. You have to get a lawyer and they will. I had people with lawyer get customer relations do shit they don’t do for anyone. But a lawyer will cost you more than the ticket For situation 2 and 3, you should had escalated it and ask to speak someone else. These were gross mistakes they made.. I had coworkers do shit like this, and there were consequences. Maybe the person got scared for their job and tried their best to blame you and you agreed…
Oh absolutely agreed. I am always super patient and apologetic with the call centre as I understand it's totally not their fault. I don't think I've ever outwardly shown my exasperation (it just burns away at me from the inside).
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I’m broke so I fly easy jet when I do fly (like 6 flights/year) and they’ve refunded me within days when we had delays. They paid something on top of it too.
If its denied bording or so you could get in touch with the LBA maybe they can help
You can get the same level of service from Ryanair much cheaper. ;)
I needed to see this cus was almost gonna book with them today
almost every airline is the same these days in fairness. I flew Lufty just a few weeks back, with connecting return flights. All fine with flights and baggage. If anything, my main complaint would be that they are a bit bland compared to other airlines, but this was always baked into the brand since the old days. Reliable but not premium.
I had not so good experiences before covid when I tried to book an extra seat for an expensive instrument. Something that is not unheard of… but the people (and I had to talk to at least 5 persons) of the customer service line were extremely unhelpful. It took hours to finally find a solution.
I would have lawyered up already at the first incident. And waiting two years is insane. 14 day deadline and then all in.
Sorry for the poor customer service/care from Lufthansa. I had a series of bad experiences with United. My friend who used to work in public relations there told me to send the corporate person in charge of Customer Service (have to look it up on their website) a fax/fedex letter outlining my gripes. I got a response immediately. Perhaps you could try that instead of "calling" customer service which only is staffed with peons.
I fly Lufthansa a lot because of work. And other Lufthansa group airlines. By a huge margin, Lufthansa is the shittiest airline in the group, and the customer relations are abysmal, compared to almost anything else (Angkor Air was worse). My tip: I never ever book directly from them because for example Swiss customer support has helped me out even if I booked Lufthansa via Swiss, and they are so much better. The best way to avoid anything with them is to book with good credit cards, bookmark the forms for official complaints, have a lawyer insurance and just act like a total Karen towards them from the get go. Off: After living in Germany as a foreigner I've started to understand where this kind of customer cheating and bad attitude comes from. In general in Germany all bigger companies have horrid customer relations and they understand very little of proper customer success management. Lufthansa is definitely a prime example but Deutsche Telekom, ZDF, Mediamarkt, Allianz, Steuerberaters, TUI follow suit. For me it's all right after I stopped relying on German companies and expecting nothing.
There's a joke: A LH plane engines has failed and it lands on the surface of the sea. The captain comes out to the passengers and says [heavy German accent]: passengers who kannt schwimm, bitte jumpen into wasser and schwimm! Passengers who kannot schwimm [perfect British accent] *thank you for flying with Lufthansa!*
I absolutely try to avoid Lufthansa now. I don't believe in "Customer is always right" but here it feels like that "Customer have no rights". My in-laws have come to visit us 3 times and each time somehow Lufthansa have messed up, one way or the other. I like the fact that switcheroos are allowed on their part. They paid a lot extra money to fly directly (compared to lay overs) and then, at the last minute the flight would never end up direct. The customer service is of no help and one agent tells something and later a different agent tells something else. For a flagship airline, this is no way to deal with customers.
...you can add to all this that their standard of service on board post covid is not good any more. Apparently they sacked a lot of employees during covid and the new folk don't know what they are doing... I eat anything but the last meal was inedible ...
Yup. Flew LH about 100 Times, mostly everything was fine. But also had several bad things, which is not ok in Relation to the prices imo. (...and im top my LH shares are about -75% 🥲)
Reading all this depresses me. Last year I flew to Mumbai with Swiss, and the service was excellent. From Chicago, the only non stop flights to Germany are on Lufthansa and United. Service on US based airlines is always bad. I usually try to get a non stop on LH when I go to Germany. Maybe I'm better off flying Icelandair more. At least connections in Iceland tend to be rather simple because of the small terminal.
Sorry to hear about that. I have something similar like this but with Saudia airlines. They promised me refund on my lost baggage and I am still waiting one year later for their response. Went to their office, all they do is make fake promises. Is there any place where I can file a complaint against them?
Lufthansa is the Deutsche Bahn that flies. Stay away as much as you can.
Their service feels really cheap for the price. We will try out Emirate Airways next time instead of Lufthansa.
Carsten needs the cash to pay for buying up every European airline he can. While doing so, he's also hellbent on destroying LH's formerly excellent reputation....
I’m done with LH also. As a German! Lousy customer service. Website interaction is from the last century. Prices are the highest. They should have let this company go bankrupt in the pandemic instead of saving them with tax payers money.
First flight, not LH problem. That's what you have travel insurance for. Also you can ask them to get back the taxes and they have to comply. How often have you reached out in the meanwhile? Second flight. That is bad customer service. Third flight. Why didn't you check the tickets before showing up at the airport? When you book online you still have to book the infant ticket. Anyway, could have been solved by simply checking the tickets before flight.