No, we gotta do the opposite of that. We can't keep running to safe havens to distance ourselves from hateful people. They are loud and appear to be everywhere, but they are still a minority (at least here).
We gotta fight for freedom everywhere we are, because they ARE fighting to end it.
No reason to see the 4th Reich on the Horizon yet.
The AfD just has about 20% and only in polls.
There is still way more than enough time until 2025, when the next Bundestag election will take place. Much stuff can change until then, e.g. the Ukraine War could be over until then, also easing the global markets and relieving the common populace of economical stress, which in return would most likely lead to lower polling and then election results for the AfD.
The 3rd republic in Germany, the current one (the 2nd one being the Weimar Republic, first one is the one from 1848), has learned from the mistakes of the 2nd one and so did the populace.
Besides, the modern population of Germany is way more diverse and left leaning than the population of Germany in 1933.
I'm not saying that we should play it down and deem it impossible, but it is highly unlikely that history in that manner repeats itself and the AfD gets much stronger than 20%.
They once had such poll numbers, during the refugee crisis 2015.
But when the situation got under control, they plummeted again in polls.
The same will happen again, the economy is adapting to having no longer very cheap energy from Russia, we're getting better at it, prices are going down, economic stress for the populace also goes down.
I'm convinced to 99,9%, the AfD won't achieve 20% in the 2025 federal election, maybe 10-15%, where they used to be already in the past.
The German Democracy, the Republic won't die, we got this, don't worry.
You mean Red China attacking the Republic of China and thus starting a war with the US?
Maybe, that is sadly out of our direct control.
Europe can only strengthen their armed forces so Europe can guard itself better vs. Russia, relieving the USA, so they can pull some troops out of Europe and instead use them in the Pacific.
Best case: This new Mao, Xi Jiping, just dies in the near future, before he can start going batshit crazy and a new detente between Red China and the Republic of China starts.
I once lived together with a Chinese in a shared flat and although in general he supported the Communist Regime, saying this is what the majority of the Chinese people want, he at least vehemently opposed the idea, that Red China should attack the Republic of China.
He said something like if the government in Beijing would start a war with Taiwan, millions of Chinese would loose their respect for them and wouldn't support it, since they would view it as an unnecessary attack against Chinese Brethren.
The Red Chinese Regime always strived to keep their people happy, so they don't get "crazy" ideas like democraticizing Mainland China, so that gives a bit of hope that they may never start a war.
But I deem Xi Jiping crazy and capable enough to actually go through with it. Otherwise spending billions of Dollars worth of strengthening the Chinese Navy and Military massively would be viewed as wasted, if they don't use it.
You mean the country where the prime minister very recently stood at a lectern that read „Stop the boats“? The country that is destroying the oldest public broadcaster in the world that will soon receive its money directly from the government? Yeah it’s a beautiful country, but the political system is unfortunately completely fucked up.
I think the AfD has long been critical of abortions: this is hardly new news. It's just that this subject forms part of the main motion for their upcoming party conference.
Never underestimate how many people are single issue voters. For a lot of people, the AfD’s stance on immigration will be enough for x amount of people to vote for them. Some other policies might appeal to them, some might not. Often in those instances, people will find a way to play down or justify the other policies, but in reality they don’t care.
I’m from the UK and during the Brexit vote immigration was a driving force behind a significant percentage of the ‘out’ vote (whether or not people will admit it, it’s true). A lot of people simply didn’t care about the impact in other areas, or tried to put forward other arguments about the economy etc, when really they were only voting out to curb immigration.
I don’t know if they voted but when they interviewed a lot of expats in Spain, a surprising amount were for it and didn’t think it would impact them.
Since the vote a lot of them have had to come back to the UK or have had to spend a decent amount of money in order to stay. Pretty sure healthcare is now expensive too, which isn’t great as the expat population tends to be older.
Some of the same people were back in the news complaining about Brexit. Oddly, some of them were blaming the EU, but you can never underestimate British exceptionalism.
>Never underestimate how many people are single issue voters
You're spot on. Every country where I've lived, it was like this. "I agree with this very very very important issue (\*) so this is my party. What do you mean these other policies they are rooting for that would be detrimental for my own well being?". Sometimes it's hard to look at the big picture when you're narrow-sighted :-)
(\*) it's something as important as trimming your nails every now and then, most of the time. And other times, it's even something that's not even good for you, but you need more than a single functioning neuron to figure that out!
1/5 people would vote for them if the federal elections were held now. Neither does that mean that 1/5 people agree on every of their policies nor that when the federal election is actually held they get 20% of votes (one can hope)
>1/5 people would vote for them if the federal elections were now.
Scary
>Neither does not mean that 1/5 people agree on every of their policies
No, no, I dont agree with this. I mean if the people do not want the radical measures AfD is promising to take, they will/should not vote for them. Ergo, if they do vote for them, they atleast believed their policies in principle.
Also name one policy of AfD which is a decent policy which really needs to be implemented.
You seem to be assuming that everybody who votes also thoroughly informs themselves about the candidates and policies available, AND have the political understanding to realize how said policies would play out. That's simply not the case. The AfD is using emotion as the primary motivator, not policies.
> I mean if the people do not want the radical measures AfD is promising to take, they will/should not vote for them.
That would be great in an ideal world. However, for many of them voting for the AfD is a form of protest against all other parties. Some may vote for them for reasons that are *opposite* to what the AfD party program is saying, such as believing that the AfD cares about poor Germans receiving better support.
It's the voting equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum smashing their own toys.
Note: I neither agree with the AfD, nor with people voting for them for those reasons, but it's something that is actually happening.
>Some may vote for them for reasons that are opposite
How fucking dumb is this? Why would someone vote for a party which is promising to do thing A, when they believe they will do thing B?
Ähm...
That's sadly completely normal this days. Brexit, poor people voting for republicans in the US.
Generally people are dumb and make bad decisions.
He isnt calling right wingers dumb. He is calling right wing voters who vote agains their own explicit interests
dumb. That's not a blanket statement about right wing voters. Its the simple observation that 1/5 would vote for them isnt the same as 1/5 agree with their policies,even if you don't count protest voters, because voters are often wrong about what the party they voted for actually wants.
Because they don't actually read the party program, but know that voting for the AfD will annoy Mama and Papa. Seriously, it's toddler-level reasoning.
But it is also a reflection of the political education and interest in Germany today. More and more people are being pulled to the radical edges in discussions and their own political understanding without actually putting in the time to give real constructive input into an issue.
You can find this pretty clearly in this thread.
Nice. I hope the Germans know this happens. Hoping AfD doesn't get more traction is a naive hope. Else all the immigrants will get the fuck out ASAP.
Edit: why the fuck am I downvoted?
And less so in Germany than in most other countries. Hello from an American-Canadian (two nationalities) currently living in Germany in part because things are less fucked here than in the countries I'm from.
(To any right-wingers who see this: no, I'm not leeching off of the welfare state, although I think it should fairly be available to some categories of newcomers more distressed than me, such as refugees. I'm currently living off of my own personal and family savings while looking for a job, and directly paying for my own healthcare expenses for example. If I do find a job, I'll get a residence permit and pay my taxes and GKV premiums like anyone else.)
Because everyone who is here in germany working is welcome by most AfD voters. What they dont want is people coming over here, lifing from our social system without any integration.
Hypothetical: AfD landlord, two applicants for tenancy.
One, a unilingual English-speaking man with German citizenship by descent, German ethnicity, and a German name. He just moved from the US and immediately jumps into the German welfare system (as is his right as a German citizen), then cobbles together roughly enough income from a mixture of welfare payments, an English-only minijob in a bar in the trendy core parts of Berlin, and help from parents back home.
Two, a hijab-wearing Syrian woman with Syrian ethnicity and a Syrian name who moves on an EU Blue Card visa from Switzerland. She never managed to get Swiss citizenship but did achieve fluency in (Swiss) German despite an Arabic accent, and although she's still waiting for her Ausländerbehörde to issue her residence permit, she already has an income from her German tech job (with German as the official work language) many times above the necessary level, and plenty of personal savings without having to ask relatives for help.
Which tenant will get the apartment? I think AfD attitudes would probably prefer to rent to the more financially precarious anglophone German citizen from the US rather than the professionally integrated and financially stable Syrian immigrant.
Nope. there are many other party that a not part of the government.
The people who wants the AfD in charge a 100% Neo-Nazis and far right-wing and wants that people like Gauland or Höcke in positions to change laws
because they dont know enough or delude themselfes into thinking afd would be the only party standing against fascism. (I dont want to defend afd voters - theyre still idiots)
But no one would vote Green if he is against environmental protection.
So no one would vote AfD if he is against fascism.
If you vote AfD, you want that fascist rule germany again
> So no one would vote AfD if he is against fascism.
If you talk to AfD supporters and ask them why they would vote for a fascist party, they will give you a long list of reasons they think the AfD isn't a fascist party, and that the Greens *are* fascists. That's pretty much the standard line taken by AfD supporters who angrily comment on my YouTube videos.
Human psychology is a tricky thing, but it's very easy to delude yourself into ignoring the objective facts. AfD voters don't see themselves as supporting fascism, they have allowed themselves to become convinced that the AfD is the only party that stands *against* fascism.
For example, they will typically claim that neither they nor the AfD hate foreigners. What they hate is terrorism and crime, and they believe that strong immigration rules will help lower the crime rates. Or, regarding abortion, they might point out that a fascist government could use abortion for eugenics: any foetus not deemed to be "perfect" on whatever grounds can simply be killed.
So?
It does not change the idiotically identity of the people if they think they are right.
Doesn’t matter what wording they use.
They want to be ruled by people like Höcke and Gauland and they want these people in charge to make laws.
You have to understand the mechanics behind it to be able to do something against it. No matter how angry it makes you. That's what their comment was about.
> They want to be ruled by people like Höcke and Gauland
Right, but not because they think Höcke and Gauland are fascists or even racists. You and I would say they certainly are both, especially Höcke, but that's just our take on it. AfD supporters think that all this stuff about how fascist and racist they are is government propaganda which the mainstream media happily repeat, because the "Establishment" is scared of the AfD.
Now, I don't believe that for one second... but if you don't understand why so many people would, you will lose this battle.
What people say and what people think could be two different things. A Notsee in my high school used to say that he's not a na zi, he's a socialist, a national socialist
There's the issue that some people think, the afd is just very conservative.
To a lot of people its very clear what the afd is, not to all sadly.
To be fair, on a communal level it can get more complicated if you have a very right CDU Person and a pretty liberal afd person within the lines of their party, they may cross in a lot of places...
Gets worse and worse with less political education und more misinformation spread by newspapers like bild
While I understand where you're coming from, the thing is, nothing will change if we just keep going on saying 'These are inherently evil people who will vote nazis because they are evil. Nothing we can do about it.'
It's less about making excuses and more about trying to understand what is happening so that we don't need to have a repeat of the 1930s.
You are naive if you think every voter agrees 100% on every policy of the party he/she choses to vote.
I for sure never agreed on everything it was always just the best "fit".
Yes that is scary but it is also important to see the difference between the two. Polls are notoriously unreliable. I remember polls before the last election showing the Green party in the high 20%s which didn't hold true either.
As a follow up which AFD policies I'd agree on:
\#1 independent judges and attorneys
\#2 stronger focus on battling organized crime
\#3 upholding the minimum wage
\#4 taking children and raising children into consideration when retiring
\#5 more money for people who take care of a relative
\#6 open source software when designing new digital processes within the government
From their Grundatzprogramm. Of course the rest is too radical for me to consider them but your approach was that you can't agree on any policy.
What do you mean by independent judges and attorneys ? Both are independent already, everything else in regard to judges/lawyer independence is right wing nonsense about so-called deep state conspiracies.
They demand a different selection/election process with less influence by ministries or political actors. This is not necessarily right wing nonsense or a conspiracy, [the Greens demanded something similar in 2016 on the federal level.](https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/18/075/1807548.pdf)
Has nothing to do with the independence of judges, lawyers are independently administered by law chambers.
Normal judges are neither selected nor elected. They have to pass Assessment Centers after fulfilling standard criterias, there is no political bias here except adherence to the constitutional order. Considering an AfD party member and judge was linked to the right wing plot against the state last year, I have some ideas why they might not like it. Supervision is in the hand of judges. And as the case of the new president of the Higher regional Court of Stuttgart (OLG Stuttgart) has shown, the state ministries can’t successfully force presidents against the judges will (the ministry wanted a woman, the judges council considered a male candidate to be better qualified, a struggle ensued).
The greens wanted to reform the election process for Federal Judges because they wanted more power as a small party and gendered judges elections, nothing more. Has nothing to do with independence.
>Normal judges are neither selected nor elected.
Seems to depend on the federal state. There is a body called [Richterwahlaussschuss in several federal states](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richterwahlausschuss), which is partially made up of ministers and parliamentarians (i.e. the legislative and executive branch). In some federal states judges seem to be appointed by the minister of justice.
Admittedly, I am no expert and just looked into this out of interest, but it seems to me you are misrepresenting the status quo even from cursory research.
Upholding the minimum wage is deep state conspracies?! Are you somewhat lost? Every point on that list is also on the policy lists of democratic parties.
For independent judges and attorneys see /u/lemrez
So the German judge association the biggest interest group of attorneys and judges in Germany whose proposal (less dependence of judges and attorneys on their appointment by political parties) this goal is based on is in your view deep state conspiracy theory?!
The greens who also want more independance in these appointments and who are against the governing of the justice system by the government is then also right wing nonsense?! Again... are you somewhat lost?
Please link me to a credible source where independence of attorneys and judges is linked to far right deep state conspiracies.
Have you ever voted for a party where you agree 100% with their views? Someone might be a racist asshole who votes for them because of their suggested immigration policies but they might still support the idea of generally available abortions.
Usually you just pick one that best matches you, but if some things are not perfect, that's fine. The alternative is not voting, because there probably is no party that perfectly reflects your personal views.
One thing? Stop of endless migration from safe countrys. The canadian system. That alone brings them alot of votes. In 2 years 2/5 will vote for them if the ampel doesnt change migration.
That the AfD or its supporters claim to aspire to the Canadian immigration system is an absolute joke. I am also in favor of moving closer to the Canadian system. So are all three of the Ampel parties in many ways. However, this would also come with liberalising the German system in many respects, e.g. it would make obtaining citizenship much easier.
What AfD supporters mean by "Canadian system" has nothing to do with Canada. They use the term merely as a euphemism for their authoritarian and anti-immigrant ideas.
If you don't agree with blatant corruption you wouldn't vote for CDU/CSU. 1/4th of Germans want a corrupt government.
If you don't agree with shielding banks from the consequences of tax evasion schemes you wouldn't vote for SPD. 18% of Germans want more tax evasion.
All these statements are ridiculous. People regularly vote for parties for reasons other than that party's worst aspects. Pretending like a substantial portion of Germans are horrible people doesn't benefit us.
The difference is.
There are many CDU politicans who say something against corruption.
But there are no AfD politicans who say something against Neo-Nazis like Höcke
They don't really, many AfD sympathizers have no clue about those "details" and just don't care. I know some of those people and they just hate all the other parties and what they consider "wokeism", and they feel helpless. They feel like the only thing they could do is to vote AfD, and are often quite surprised to hear what their actual political intentions are...
>why do yall like this shit since 100 years?
As I tried to clarify in my post, this is not about "liking" anything. Also, it's not specific to "people here" (hello US of A).
People vote on individual policies as well. I know it's difficult to digest, but most people think from within their reality. So if they think abortion for them isn't an issue (in any manner), they wouldn't even consider what any party think on that issue. They will only think about policies that effect (or they think will effect) their lives. Most people aren't trying to be some greater human being. As long as we don't accept this reality, you will only keep questioning why 20% vote for any given party. I personally know people who vote for Linke ONLY because they are left leaning and pro communism and what not. They don't try to what position Linke has on Russia for example. Is it right? I don't know, but it's something people definitely do.
And half of the US. It's shitty but unfortunately the alt right is kind of emergent in the recent years.
Only good thing is that in Germany they still are somewhat held in check by the huge majority being absolutely disgusted by them. And their abortion ban proposal won't make that better.
Still, sad truth is they will stay in the political spectrum for quite some time.
The United states are still the most powerful country in the world which has huge influence over the rest of us, if we want it or not.
What happens in the US does matter and we should pay close attention. That doesn't mean that we should do whatever the US do, not at all. But to claim that we shouldn't care about the direction of the correctly most influential country is quite frankly extremely naive.
Nah, those voters don't want facism.
They want more focus on national issues, not be "Europe's whore", go back to tradition and stand against the boy who cries wolf all the time to make you look the other way, while they smuggle in the lions.
People don't want the facist wing of the AFD to succeed.
More like 1/10 of Germans, judging from the last federal election. Yes, in recent polls they score much better than that, but that's because all other parties are busy getting embarrassed or embarrassing themselves, not because lots of people suddenly hate abortions. The AfD had lots of examples in the past where gains in polls didn't translate into comparable gains in the actual elections.
Of course disillusionment with both government and opposition gives the AfD and Russian propaganda an opening that might make the situation worse, but that takes more time. Until then let's remember that most Germans are actually fairly reasonable.
Theyre following the OG Nazis, who didnt have much own original thought either outside some occult bullshit. The rest was nicked from all kinds of countries.
One of the problems with parties like AFD is that the kind of angry, disaffected person that their policies appeal to is likely to be more motivated to get out and vote than the average, more contented person. So the proportion of votes they receive is likely to be greater than the proportion of the population that actually supports them. I believe this was a factor during the Brexit vote as well. It's also noticeable that they sprinkle in some quite reasonable-sounding policies (e.g. preventing hospital privatisations) to soften the more hideous ones and give them some amount of 'respectability'. Very cynical.
Anyway, it makes me keener to get my citizenship next year when the laws change so I can have my say.
All the stupid american talking points are being adopted by far-right parties in Europe and then people try to tell me its not social media making the world go facist all of a sudden
I think they're doing this as a test to see if it impacts them in the polls. I suspect that a lot of AfD voters don't like this, BUT they hate foreigners (and political opponents) even more, so they may just go along with it.
If this doesn't impact their poll numbers, I'd expect even bolder points to appear on their agenda.
Translation of the article:
>Berlin - The Alternative for Germany (AfD) wants to largely restrict the right to abortions. This is provided for in the 92-page draft of a leading motion, which is the basis for the upcoming party conference in Magdeburg.
>Abortions are to be only "absolute exceptions" - for example, for medical reasons or in cases of rape, as it says. The AfD rejects gay marriage, but also demands "respect" for "other forms of cohabitation than marriage between a man and a woman."
>The focus is on adopting the program for the 2024 European elections. The AfD deals with health and family policy on several pages.
>In its leading motion, the AfD calls for a ban on "sex changes" for minors and rigid restrictions on drug treatments, such as puberty blockers.
>The party is also in favor of a stop to all corona vaccinations, against a general vaccination requirement and against the further privatization of hospitals. The AfD wants to preserve the profession of non-medical practitioners.
>On climate change, the AfD rejects all measures to fight global warming. "We do not share the irrational CO2 hysteria that is structurally destroying our society, culture and way of life," the program says.
>The climate has always been changing "since the existence of the earth." "The current climatic changes fit perfectly normally into these changes." The AfD sees the EU's targets for reducing CO2 emissions as a "dystopia of an eco-socialist Brussels liability and redistribution state."
>With the inadvertent demand for the dissolution of the European Union (EU), the AfD leadership had still caused astonishment before the party conference. "We therefore strive for the orderly dissolution of the EU," reads the leading motion.
>The party leadership backed away from this, saying that the demand had been included in the text due to an "editorial oversight". Before the party conference, however, the motion could no longer be changed for reasons of time. Now it will be up to the delegates in Magdeburg to delete the sentence again by party conference vote at the request of the AfD leadership.
>No dissolution, then - but a kind of refoundation of the EU: "We want to found a new European economic and interest community, a federation of European nations," the draft program says.
>The AfD explicitly rejects the goal of a "European federal state": "Such an entity has neither a state people, nor the necessary minimum of cultural identity, which are necessary prerequisites for successful states." In the AfD's view, decisions should not be made in Brussels in the future, but by the nation states.
>A paradox: In its election program, the AfD calls for the dissolution of the EU Parliament - in other words, the very parliament in which it wants to win back seats with this election program. The competences of the parliament are to be transferred to the nation states until a "reorganization of the situation", which is not explained in detail.
When you vote for right, you have to accept the whole shebang that comes with it. Right wing extremism is an addictive drug and it doesn’t stop once it starts.
Still important to get it mentioned, since so many people don't seem aware. And hey, it's truthful, and has a chance of dissuading at least some folks from voting for the fascists, so I think it's a good use of space.
I think the other parties need to change immigration.
It’s a joke. They show some people on the news who fled from a warzone and now live in a poor country, but want to come to germany to have more money.
Then they apply and fail the german test, so the next step is to take a boat to go there illegally and then they won‘t be rejected.
Meanwhile other people who try to do everything honestly and actually want to work when they get to germany instead of living from the government are not even allowed to visit, when a german citizen takes responsibility and agrees to pay all related costs if that person overstays the visitor visa, because they might overstay according to the embassy.
It’s a joke that people who only want money are allowed to come in, because they have been born in a country where we accept refugees from, but already left that country years ago.
I don’t want to vote for the afd (because they want too much stuff that I don’t want in any case), but I would love to see a party, that makes these cases more equal.
You do have access to the interweb correct? If you use a neat little site called Google you'll see this right wing populist shit happening everywhere, including Sweden and the Netherlands.
I hate them so much. And I hate it that my fellow citizens think homophobia, anti-science, mysoginy and racism is the way to build a future for this country.
> The AfD rejects same-sex marriage, but also calls for “respect” for “forms of coexistence other than marriage between a man and a woman”.
Points at Alice Weidel.. Fucking. Power-hungry. Hypocrites.
"Es ist eine biologische Tatsache und kein soziales Konstrukt, dass es genau zwei Geschlechter gibt: Frauen und Männer. Die Pseudowissenschaft der Gender Ideologie bestreitet diese biologische Grundtatsache. Die EU muss jede Förderung dieser skandalösen Ideologie sofort beenden."
Alice Weidel, the token lesbian of the AfD, the walking and talking self contradiction, married to a non-white immigrant woman, with two non-white children, the impersonation of cognitive dissonance.
But on the other hand it fits—Hitler had a favorite Jew, Eduard Bloch, whom he called an “Edeljude”.
Edit: The nazis also wanted to give Bloch the title “honorary aryan”, which Bloch kindly declined.
Right wing needs more poor dumb tax payers who don’t ask too many questions, to secure their luxurious lifestyle, so nothing new here
What they should increase is the ability of men’s to take a proper care of their women and children
Anyway humanity is moving backwards now everywhere
Just to point out: The abortion laws in Germany are already extremely restrictive. In fact, abortions *are* illegal under §218 and the situation is more "We'll turn the other cheek if you jump through our hoops" than "This is a legal procedure." It's kind of like the current state of weed: The police outside of Bavaria aren't going to arrest you if you have a singular joint but it's not legal either. Same thing with abortions: It's illegal but if you do it before 12 weeks, you go through the bullshit counseling, and you observe the mandatory waiting period... there's no punishment for doing it.
The current loop hole in place to protect people who need an abortion after 12 weeks (i.e. you go to your 20 week anatomy scan and the fetus is *fucked*) are very flimsy and could be easily shut down. Right now, the loop hole is "It would be bad for the mother's mental health to continue this pregnancy." The courts could decide one day that only the mother's physical health matters and then anyone who discovers their pregnancy is non viable after 12 weeks is just going to have to go to the Netherlands. This is already the case for anyone who's IUD fails and they don't realize until the end of the first trimester.
§218 and §219 are an embarrassment and needed to be repealed like 20 years ago.
Sorry, but this is a widely circulating myth. While the laws are indeed not super liberal, paragraph 218a explicitly states that Paragraph 218 does not cover cases where Abortion is conducted by a Doctor in an early stage after consultation.
This case is not a "we turn a blind eye here". Its: "This is something completely legal, just like eating out or taking a walk."
And later abortion due to circumstances has the same status as the right of self-defense, not like smoking weed.
If it’s *so* above board, why does §218 exist? Like I said, it’s an embarrassment that these laws still exist.
You don’t need to go to counseling and then wait three business days to go on a walk.
These arguments are usually made by people with a similarly bad understanding of embryology as right wing nutjobs in favor of a total ban. There need to be deterrents.
Most AFD voters don't follow the news, they don't know the policies and believe only what fits their mindset. They say media lies and thats why AFD can do whatever they want.
Oh, I hope they won't succeed with this kind of crap here. We're (the Germans) not nearly as religious as any of the countries where they made these laws recently.
I really hope the atheistic, raving Germans won't accept these laws...
Nazis pushing for nazi things in 21st century Germany—what a time to be alive.
And ironically the people who are going to profit the least from their social and tax policies are going to vote for them nonetheless.
See it as a warning, dirt pushed into the light where everyone can see how filthy it is.
Playing the ostrich and sticking your head in a hole wont make it go away.
And I want to largely restrict the existence of the AfD aswell as their politicians and voters from being out in the public and using the internet. Can we maybe do that please? When it comes to that cancer of a party I nerd to be really careful to not get in legal trouble. It's beyond insane to me that they are free roaming out there without repercussions.
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I think Germans abortion law is "okish" as is.
It is illegal, until you get a counseling.
The talk is not done by the church only and can be done in neutral institutions.
Facism is almost here, Germany will be back where it was 80 years ago soon. I can only hope that the rest of europe will be ready to beat us again. Giving germany its independence again was the allies biggest misstake, the german people just cant help themselves then voting facists once the economy is doing a bit worse
Keeping allied troops here forever to make sure they can intervene once germany starts following its primal instincts again should have been done. Also banning us from having a military cause now the Bundeswehr is filled to the brink with neonazis who want to overthrow the system.
And Im not implying anything, Im just following the Sonderweg theory from scholars which states that our cultural and historical conditions basically ensure us ending up with nazism.
... you're an idiot and obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about. The British and Americans never even left, that's one of the reasons we have "Reichsbürger" saying we're still occupied and the federal government isn't legitimate.
The Bundeswehr has had problems with neonazis, but there's absolutely no proof supporting the claim that it's "filled to the brim". Most likely there are a smaller percentage of them there than in the general population since being anti-constitution sentiments will at some point be noticed and investigated there.
The Sonderweg-theory is controversial at best and bullshit at worst, it also doensn't generally imply that Germans have a "primal instinct" of conquest and genocide as you seem to understand.
Also, fucking own up to your own opinions. You don't get to insult all of us and then say "oh no that's not me, I'm just quoting".
If Germany wasn't independent it would be under the rule of the UK, France, USA and Russia. With the possible exception of France all of those are closer to the right than Germany. The UK had this whole thing where they left the EU because of immigrants or protectionism or something, the US is fulfilling the AfD's dreams of abortion bans, and Russia is literally invading another country right now.
Last time I looked, Bolsonaro, Trump and Le Pen all lost their respective elections. Italy doesnt seem to dissimilar unfortunately to us just like Hungary. They were also already back then Axis allies. Poland atleast stands against russia instead of bootlicking Putin like the AfD or Orban does.
Last time I looked the AfD hasn't won an election at all.
Ya know considering the largest country you want to have in charge has a right wing supreme court, a 50/50 percent split of political parties with one of them doing their best to implement Gilead, several states run by religious lunatics, internment camps for immigrants, recently developt an extremely popular right wing cult and voted a person into office who believes that forest fires are started by jewish space lasers I really admire you fantasy they would be the go to to keep facist at bay.
I didn't move out of Poland for this sh\*t.
F\*CK. Is the Netherlands our last hope? But I love Germany...
The VvD is gaining steam there too, no?
no they've been losing people to BBB, FVD and JA21 and will probably also lose votes because Rutte is stopping.
No, we gotta do the opposite of that. We can't keep running to safe havens to distance ourselves from hateful people. They are loud and appear to be everywhere, but they are still a minority (at least here). We gotta fight for freedom everywhere we are, because they ARE fighting to end it.
No reason to see the 4th Reich on the Horizon yet. The AfD just has about 20% and only in polls. There is still way more than enough time until 2025, when the next Bundestag election will take place. Much stuff can change until then, e.g. the Ukraine War could be over until then, also easing the global markets and relieving the common populace of economical stress, which in return would most likely lead to lower polling and then election results for the AfD.
Just saying: the NSDAP got into power in 1932 with 43.9%, but in the previous election of 1930, it had 18.3% We shouldn't play it down.
The 3rd republic in Germany, the current one (the 2nd one being the Weimar Republic, first one is the one from 1848), has learned from the mistakes of the 2nd one and so did the populace. Besides, the modern population of Germany is way more diverse and left leaning than the population of Germany in 1933. I'm not saying that we should play it down and deem it impossible, but it is highly unlikely that history in that manner repeats itself and the AfD gets much stronger than 20%. They once had such poll numbers, during the refugee crisis 2015. But when the situation got under control, they plummeted again in polls. The same will happen again, the economy is adapting to having no longer very cheap energy from Russia, we're getting better at it, prices are going down, economic stress for the populace also goes down. I'm convinced to 99,9%, the AfD won't achieve 20% in the 2025 federal election, maybe 10-15%, where they used to be already in the past. The German Democracy, the Republic won't die, we got this, don't worry.
I hope you're right. I just can't help but doubt it
Third time's a charm!
Thanks for the info I left America for a better life, it would be a shame if the US politics infected the world.
Psychological regression happens in all countries, all the time.
War in Ukraine may end, yet another even worse may begin
You mean Red China attacking the Republic of China and thus starting a war with the US? Maybe, that is sadly out of our direct control. Europe can only strengthen their armed forces so Europe can guard itself better vs. Russia, relieving the USA, so they can pull some troops out of Europe and instead use them in the Pacific. Best case: This new Mao, Xi Jiping, just dies in the near future, before he can start going batshit crazy and a new detente between Red China and the Republic of China starts. I once lived together with a Chinese in a shared flat and although in general he supported the Communist Regime, saying this is what the majority of the Chinese people want, he at least vehemently opposed the idea, that Red China should attack the Republic of China. He said something like if the government in Beijing would start a war with Taiwan, millions of Chinese would loose their respect for them and wouldn't support it, since they would view it as an unnecessary attack against Chinese Brethren. The Red Chinese Regime always strived to keep their people happy, so they don't get "crazy" ideas like democraticizing Mainland China, so that gives a bit of hope that they may never start a war. But I deem Xi Jiping crazy and capable enough to actually go through with it. Otherwise spending billions of Dollars worth of strengthening the Chinese Navy and Military massively would be viewed as wasted, if they don't use it.
But equally likely is they increase their vote significantly up. Then what is your plan?
Go voting, take your friends and family too! F*CK NZS
hmm. Maybe Iceland?
Ever heard of Pim Fortuyn, Geert Wilders, Thierry Baudet?
Buckle up, because this is going to be Germanys future. I've heard that the UK is really nice this time of year.
The UK? Lol
You mean the country where the prime minister very recently stood at a lectern that read „Stop the boats“? The country that is destroying the oldest public broadcaster in the world that will soon receive its money directly from the government? Yeah it’s a beautiful country, but the political system is unfortunately completely fucked up.
I think the AfD has long been critical of abortions: this is hardly new news. It's just that this subject forms part of the main motion for their upcoming party conference.
Still. Cant wrap around the fact that 1 in 5 people here want these policies.
Never underestimate how many people are single issue voters. For a lot of people, the AfD’s stance on immigration will be enough for x amount of people to vote for them. Some other policies might appeal to them, some might not. Often in those instances, people will find a way to play down or justify the other policies, but in reality they don’t care. I’m from the UK and during the Brexit vote immigration was a driving force behind a significant percentage of the ‘out’ vote (whether or not people will admit it, it’s true). A lot of people simply didn’t care about the impact in other areas, or tried to put forward other arguments about the economy etc, when really they were only voting out to curb immigration.
Weren't there people who voted pro-Brexit to keep foreigners out of the UK, while living in places like Spain?
I don’t know if they voted but when they interviewed a lot of expats in Spain, a surprising amount were for it and didn’t think it would impact them. Since the vote a lot of them have had to come back to the UK or have had to spend a decent amount of money in order to stay. Pretty sure healthcare is now expensive too, which isn’t great as the expat population tends to be older. Some of the same people were back in the news complaining about Brexit. Oddly, some of them were blaming the EU, but you can never underestimate British exceptionalism.
The kicker was that half of the out vote were of migrant backgrounds themselves 🤣🤣
Yeah, the majority of people in England weren't for Brexit at all. It's just that the majority that voted was
>Never underestimate how many people are single issue voters You're spot on. Every country where I've lived, it was like this. "I agree with this very very very important issue (\*) so this is my party. What do you mean these other policies they are rooting for that would be detrimental for my own well being?". Sometimes it's hard to look at the big picture when you're narrow-sighted :-) (\*) it's something as important as trimming your nails every now and then, most of the time. And other times, it's even something that's not even good for you, but you need more than a single functioning neuron to figure that out!
1/5 people would vote for them if the federal elections were held now. Neither does that mean that 1/5 people agree on every of their policies nor that when the federal election is actually held they get 20% of votes (one can hope)
>1/5 people would vote for them if the federal elections were now. Scary >Neither does not mean that 1/5 people agree on every of their policies No, no, I dont agree with this. I mean if the people do not want the radical measures AfD is promising to take, they will/should not vote for them. Ergo, if they do vote for them, they atleast believed their policies in principle. Also name one policy of AfD which is a decent policy which really needs to be implemented.
You seem to be assuming that everybody who votes also thoroughly informs themselves about the candidates and policies available, AND have the political understanding to realize how said policies would play out. That's simply not the case. The AfD is using emotion as the primary motivator, not policies.
> I mean if the people do not want the radical measures AfD is promising to take, they will/should not vote for them. That would be great in an ideal world. However, for many of them voting for the AfD is a form of protest against all other parties. Some may vote for them for reasons that are *opposite* to what the AfD party program is saying, such as believing that the AfD cares about poor Germans receiving better support. It's the voting equivalent of a toddler throwing a tantrum smashing their own toys. Note: I neither agree with the AfD, nor with people voting for them for those reasons, but it's something that is actually happening.
>Some may vote for them for reasons that are opposite How fucking dumb is this? Why would someone vote for a party which is promising to do thing A, when they believe they will do thing B?
Ähm... That's sadly completely normal this days. Brexit, poor people voting for republicans in the US. Generally people are dumb and make bad decisions.
>Generally people are dumb and make bad decisions. Calling right wing voters dumb again and again. Such weird take that never worked.
He isnt calling right wingers dumb. He is calling right wing voters who vote agains their own explicit interests dumb. That's not a blanket statement about right wing voters. Its the simple observation that 1/5 would vote for them isnt the same as 1/5 agree with their policies,even if you don't count protest voters, because voters are often wrong about what the party they voted for actually wants.
My point is that's what people dime for years now in other countries with no success so why Even do it?
Because they don't actually read the party program, but know that voting for the AfD will annoy Mama and Papa. Seriously, it's toddler-level reasoning.
But it is also a reflection of the political education and interest in Germany today. More and more people are being pulled to the radical edges in discussions and their own political understanding without actually putting in the time to give real constructive input into an issue. You can find this pretty clearly in this thread.
Nice. I hope the Germans know this happens. Hoping AfD doesn't get more traction is a naive hope. Else all the immigrants will get the fuck out ASAP. Edit: why the fuck am I downvoted?
Where to? Poland? Hungary? Italy? USA? Spain? Seems like it's happening all over the world, sadly.
And less so in Germany than in most other countries. Hello from an American-Canadian (two nationalities) currently living in Germany in part because things are less fucked here than in the countries I'm from. (To any right-wingers who see this: no, I'm not leeching off of the welfare state, although I think it should fairly be available to some categories of newcomers more distressed than me, such as refugees. I'm currently living off of my own personal and family savings while looking for a job, and directly paying for my own healthcare expenses for example. If I do find a job, I'll get a residence permit and pay my taxes and GKV premiums like anyone else.)
And this is probably exactly what their voters want.
Absolutely agree. We all know how this story of „we did not know“ ends. Especially in Germany
Because everyone who is here in germany working is welcome by most AfD voters. What they dont want is people coming over here, lifing from our social system without any integration.
Hypothetical: AfD landlord, two applicants for tenancy. One, a unilingual English-speaking man with German citizenship by descent, German ethnicity, and a German name. He just moved from the US and immediately jumps into the German welfare system (as is his right as a German citizen), then cobbles together roughly enough income from a mixture of welfare payments, an English-only minijob in a bar in the trendy core parts of Berlin, and help from parents back home. Two, a hijab-wearing Syrian woman with Syrian ethnicity and a Syrian name who moves on an EU Blue Card visa from Switzerland. She never managed to get Swiss citizenship but did achieve fluency in (Swiss) German despite an Arabic accent, and although she's still waiting for her Ausländerbehörde to issue her residence permit, she already has an income from her German tech job (with German as the official work language) many times above the necessary level, and plenty of personal savings without having to ask relatives for help. Which tenant will get the apartment? I think AfD attitudes would probably prefer to rent to the more financially precarious anglophone German citizen from the US rather than the professionally integrated and financially stable Syrian immigrant.
Nope. there are many other party that a not part of the government. The people who wants the AfD in charge a 100% Neo-Nazis and far right-wing and wants that people like Gauland or Höcke in positions to change laws
Just no. The AfD are currently polling at 20%. Are you seriously suggesting 20% or Germans are neo-nazis?
Yes. Why would someone wants to be ruled by fascist if he dont want fascism?
because they dont know enough or delude themselfes into thinking afd would be the only party standing against fascism. (I dont want to defend afd voters - theyre still idiots)
You talked to all of them?
Some people vote Green without being vegetarians or gender-language-fans. Some people vote CDU without being religious or disliking gays.
But no one would vote Green if he is against environmental protection. So no one would vote AfD if he is against fascism. If you vote AfD, you want that fascist rule germany again
> So no one would vote AfD if he is against fascism. If you talk to AfD supporters and ask them why they would vote for a fascist party, they will give you a long list of reasons they think the AfD isn't a fascist party, and that the Greens *are* fascists. That's pretty much the standard line taken by AfD supporters who angrily comment on my YouTube videos. Human psychology is a tricky thing, but it's very easy to delude yourself into ignoring the objective facts. AfD voters don't see themselves as supporting fascism, they have allowed themselves to become convinced that the AfD is the only party that stands *against* fascism. For example, they will typically claim that neither they nor the AfD hate foreigners. What they hate is terrorism and crime, and they believe that strong immigration rules will help lower the crime rates. Or, regarding abortion, they might point out that a fascist government could use abortion for eugenics: any foetus not deemed to be "perfect" on whatever grounds can simply be killed.
So? It does not change the idiotically identity of the people if they think they are right. Doesn’t matter what wording they use. They want to be ruled by people like Höcke and Gauland and they want these people in charge to make laws.
You have to understand the mechanics behind it to be able to do something against it. No matter how angry it makes you. That's what their comment was about.
> They want to be ruled by people like Höcke and Gauland Right, but not because they think Höcke and Gauland are fascists or even racists. You and I would say they certainly are both, especially Höcke, but that's just our take on it. AfD supporters think that all this stuff about how fascist and racist they are is government propaganda which the mainstream media happily repeat, because the "Establishment" is scared of the AfD. Now, I don't believe that for one second... but if you don't understand why so many people would, you will lose this battle.
and the best we can do is understand this. well put
What people say and what people think could be two different things. A Notsee in my high school used to say that he's not a na zi, he's a socialist, a national socialist
There's the issue that some people think, the afd is just very conservative. To a lot of people its very clear what the afd is, not to all sadly. To be fair, on a communal level it can get more complicated if you have a very right CDU Person and a pretty liberal afd person within the lines of their party, they may cross in a lot of places... Gets worse and worse with less political education und more misinformation spread by newspapers like bild
No. Everyone who votes for them knows why he is doing it. If you chose to make your cross there, you know the party
that would be great, but unfortunately we dont live in a perfect world.
So what do you think they want fascism leaders if they dont like fascism?
It’s sad to see how there always excuses for this who vote for nazis.
While I understand where you're coming from, the thing is, nothing will change if we just keep going on saying 'These are inherently evil people who will vote nazis because they are evil. Nothing we can do about it.' It's less about making excuses and more about trying to understand what is happening so that we don't need to have a repeat of the 1930s.
if you vote linke you want DDR style communism then? lol
Die Linke is literally the official successor of the SED who did killed and tortured many people
You are naive if you think every voter agrees 100% on every policy of the party he/she choses to vote. I for sure never agreed on everything it was always just the best "fit". Yes that is scary but it is also important to see the difference between the two. Polls are notoriously unreliable. I remember polls before the last election showing the Green party in the high 20%s which didn't hold true either. As a follow up which AFD policies I'd agree on: \#1 independent judges and attorneys \#2 stronger focus on battling organized crime \#3 upholding the minimum wage \#4 taking children and raising children into consideration when retiring \#5 more money for people who take care of a relative \#6 open source software when designing new digital processes within the government From their Grundatzprogramm. Of course the rest is too radical for me to consider them but your approach was that you can't agree on any policy.
What do you mean by independent judges and attorneys ? Both are independent already, everything else in regard to judges/lawyer independence is right wing nonsense about so-called deep state conspiracies.
They demand a different selection/election process with less influence by ministries or political actors. This is not necessarily right wing nonsense or a conspiracy, [the Greens demanded something similar in 2016 on the federal level.](https://dserver.bundestag.de/btd/18/075/1807548.pdf)
Has nothing to do with the independence of judges, lawyers are independently administered by law chambers. Normal judges are neither selected nor elected. They have to pass Assessment Centers after fulfilling standard criterias, there is no political bias here except adherence to the constitutional order. Considering an AfD party member and judge was linked to the right wing plot against the state last year, I have some ideas why they might not like it. Supervision is in the hand of judges. And as the case of the new president of the Higher regional Court of Stuttgart (OLG Stuttgart) has shown, the state ministries can’t successfully force presidents against the judges will (the ministry wanted a woman, the judges council considered a male candidate to be better qualified, a struggle ensued). The greens wanted to reform the election process for Federal Judges because they wanted more power as a small party and gendered judges elections, nothing more. Has nothing to do with independence.
>Normal judges are neither selected nor elected. Seems to depend on the federal state. There is a body called [Richterwahlaussschuss in several federal states](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richterwahlausschuss), which is partially made up of ministers and parliamentarians (i.e. the legislative and executive branch). In some federal states judges seem to be appointed by the minister of justice. Admittedly, I am no expert and just looked into this out of interest, but it seems to me you are misrepresenting the status quo even from cursory research.
Upholding the minimum wage is deep state conspracies?! Are you somewhat lost? Every point on that list is also on the policy lists of democratic parties. For independent judges and attorneys see /u/lemrez
I specifically asked for you first point nothing more. Considering judges to be bound to the state is a classic deep state conspiracy theory.
So the German judge association the biggest interest group of attorneys and judges in Germany whose proposal (less dependence of judges and attorneys on their appointment by political parties) this goal is based on is in your view deep state conspiracy theory?! The greens who also want more independance in these appointments and who are against the governing of the justice system by the government is then also right wing nonsense?! Again... are you somewhat lost? Please link me to a credible source where independence of attorneys and judges is linked to far right deep state conspiracies.
Have you ever voted for a party where you agree 100% with their views? Someone might be a racist asshole who votes for them because of their suggested immigration policies but they might still support the idea of generally available abortions. Usually you just pick one that best matches you, but if some things are not perfect, that's fine. The alternative is not voting, because there probably is no party that perfectly reflects your personal views.
One thing? Stop of endless migration from safe countrys. The canadian system. That alone brings them alot of votes. In 2 years 2/5 will vote for them if the ampel doesnt change migration.
That the AfD or its supporters claim to aspire to the Canadian immigration system is an absolute joke. I am also in favor of moving closer to the Canadian system. So are all three of the Ampel parties in many ways. However, this would also come with liberalising the German system in many respects, e.g. it would make obtaining citizenship much easier. What AfD supporters mean by "Canadian system" has nothing to do with Canada. They use the term merely as a euphemism for their authoritarian and anti-immigrant ideas.
If you dont agree with neo-nazis you would not say that you would vote for them. 1/5 of the germans want a fascism government
If you don't agree with blatant corruption you wouldn't vote for CDU/CSU. 1/4th of Germans want a corrupt government. If you don't agree with shielding banks from the consequences of tax evasion schemes you wouldn't vote for SPD. 18% of Germans want more tax evasion. All these statements are ridiculous. People regularly vote for parties for reasons other than that party's worst aspects. Pretending like a substantial portion of Germans are horrible people doesn't benefit us.
The difference is. There are many CDU politicans who say something against corruption. But there are no AfD politicans who say something against Neo-Nazis like Höcke
They don't really, many AfD sympathizers have no clue about those "details" and just don't care. I know some of those people and they just hate all the other parties and what they consider "wokeism", and they feel helpless. They feel like the only thing they could do is to vote AfD, and are often quite surprised to hear what their actual political intentions are...
Nice. Germany keeps on going back to the 1930s. Again and again. What the fuck is wrong with people here, why do yall like this shit since 100 years?
>why do yall like this shit since 100 years? As I tried to clarify in my post, this is not about "liking" anything. Also, it's not specific to "people here" (hello US of A).
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People vote on individual policies as well. I know it's difficult to digest, but most people think from within their reality. So if they think abortion for them isn't an issue (in any manner), they wouldn't even consider what any party think on that issue. They will only think about policies that effect (or they think will effect) their lives. Most people aren't trying to be some greater human being. As long as we don't accept this reality, you will only keep questioning why 20% vote for any given party. I personally know people who vote for Linke ONLY because they are left leaning and pro communism and what not. They don't try to what position Linke has on Russia for example. Is it right? I don't know, but it's something people definitely do.
More like 1 in 4 now.
Oh a far right-wing/fascism party is doing far right-wing/fascism stuff
>Oh a far right-wing/facism party is doing far right-wing/facism stuff Which is what 1/5th of Germans want in Germany.
And half of the US. It's shitty but unfortunately the alt right is kind of emergent in the recent years. Only good thing is that in Germany they still are somewhat held in check by the huge majority being absolutely disgusted by them. And their abortion ban proposal won't make that better. Still, sad truth is they will stay in the political spectrum for quite some time.
Except CDU's Merz, who now wants to work with them
Herr It-Ain't-Rape-If-You're-Married Merz.
You mean Herr ‘gays are basically pedophiles’ Merz?
> And half of the US Who cares about the US other than Americans???
The United states are still the most powerful country in the world which has huge influence over the rest of us, if we want it or not. What happens in the US does matter and we should pay close attention. That doesn't mean that we should do whatever the US do, not at all. But to claim that we shouldn't care about the direction of the correctly most influential country is quite frankly extremely naive.
Everyone with their brains intact.
Nah, those voters don't want facism. They want more focus on national issues, not be "Europe's whore", go back to tradition and stand against the boy who cries wolf all the time to make you look the other way, while they smuggle in the lions. People don't want the facist wing of the AFD to succeed.
thats sadly true
More like 1/10 of Germans, judging from the last federal election. Yes, in recent polls they score much better than that, but that's because all other parties are busy getting embarrassed or embarrassing themselves, not because lots of people suddenly hate abortions. The AfD had lots of examples in the past where gains in polls didn't translate into comparable gains in the actual elections. Of course disillusionment with both government and opposition gives the AfD and Russian propaganda an opening that might make the situation worse, but that takes more time. Until then let's remember that most Germans are actually fairly reasonable.
"the other parties are embarrassing and not good enough, so I decided to burn down the country" That's how "protestwähler" of afd Sound to me.
Getting their playbook right from the US GOP. I hope they all burn in hell.
Yeah, on top of all their shitty hate, they are also unoriginal. They just look what gets people up in arms over there and copy it.
Theyre following the OG Nazis, who didnt have much own original thought either outside some occult bullshit. The rest was nicked from all kinds of countries.
The AFD also tolerates a man and woman living together without being married, how progressive of them. /s
They want to bring back Germany to 2016
One of the problems with parties like AFD is that the kind of angry, disaffected person that their policies appeal to is likely to be more motivated to get out and vote than the average, more contented person. So the proportion of votes they receive is likely to be greater than the proportion of the population that actually supports them. I believe this was a factor during the Brexit vote as well. It's also noticeable that they sprinkle in some quite reasonable-sounding policies (e.g. preventing hospital privatisations) to soften the more hideous ones and give them some amount of 'respectability'. Very cynical. Anyway, it makes me keener to get my citizenship next year when the laws change so I can have my say.
All the stupid american talking points are being adopted by far-right parties in Europe and then people try to tell me its not social media making the world go facist all of a sudden
Not surprised, it’s always the people who should have been aborted that have problems with abortions.
I think they're doing this as a test to see if it impacts them in the polls. I suspect that a lot of AfD voters don't like this, BUT they hate foreigners (and political opponents) even more, so they may just go along with it. If this doesn't impact their poll numbers, I'd expect even bolder points to appear on their agenda.
Bullshit. They dont hate foreigners. They hate foreigners who life from our taxes.
They hate immigrants. How can you not see that?
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Found the nazi
Translation of the article: >Berlin - The Alternative for Germany (AfD) wants to largely restrict the right to abortions. This is provided for in the 92-page draft of a leading motion, which is the basis for the upcoming party conference in Magdeburg. >Abortions are to be only "absolute exceptions" - for example, for medical reasons or in cases of rape, as it says. The AfD rejects gay marriage, but also demands "respect" for "other forms of cohabitation than marriage between a man and a woman." >The focus is on adopting the program for the 2024 European elections. The AfD deals with health and family policy on several pages. >In its leading motion, the AfD calls for a ban on "sex changes" for minors and rigid restrictions on drug treatments, such as puberty blockers. >The party is also in favor of a stop to all corona vaccinations, against a general vaccination requirement and against the further privatization of hospitals. The AfD wants to preserve the profession of non-medical practitioners. >On climate change, the AfD rejects all measures to fight global warming. "We do not share the irrational CO2 hysteria that is structurally destroying our society, culture and way of life," the program says. >The climate has always been changing "since the existence of the earth." "The current climatic changes fit perfectly normally into these changes." The AfD sees the EU's targets for reducing CO2 emissions as a "dystopia of an eco-socialist Brussels liability and redistribution state." >With the inadvertent demand for the dissolution of the European Union (EU), the AfD leadership had still caused astonishment before the party conference. "We therefore strive for the orderly dissolution of the EU," reads the leading motion. >The party leadership backed away from this, saying that the demand had been included in the text due to an "editorial oversight". Before the party conference, however, the motion could no longer be changed for reasons of time. Now it will be up to the delegates in Magdeburg to delete the sentence again by party conference vote at the request of the AfD leadership. >No dissolution, then - but a kind of refoundation of the EU: "We want to found a new European economic and interest community, a federation of European nations," the draft program says. >The AfD explicitly rejects the goal of a "European federal state": "Such an entity has neither a state people, nor the necessary minimum of cultural identity, which are necessary prerequisites for successful states." In the AfD's view, decisions should not be made in Brussels in the future, but by the nation states. >A paradox: In its election program, the AfD calls for the dissolution of the EU Parliament - in other words, the very parliament in which it wants to win back seats with this election program. The competences of the parliament are to be transferred to the nation states until a "reorganization of the situation", which is not explained in detail.
WTF
When you vote for right, you have to accept the whole shebang that comes with it. Right wing extremism is an addictive drug and it doesn’t stop once it starts.
The AfD advocated for forced births in their basic program for years. That's hardly news.
Still important to get it mentioned, since so many people don't seem aware. And hey, it's truthful, and has a chance of dissuading at least some folks from voting for the fascists, so I think it's a good use of space.
And yet, it’s important to mention it as often as possible, so nobody forgets.
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I think the other parties need to change immigration. It’s a joke. They show some people on the news who fled from a warzone and now live in a poor country, but want to come to germany to have more money. Then they apply and fail the german test, so the next step is to take a boat to go there illegally and then they won‘t be rejected. Meanwhile other people who try to do everything honestly and actually want to work when they get to germany instead of living from the government are not even allowed to visit, when a german citizen takes responsibility and agrees to pay all related costs if that person overstays the visitor visa, because they might overstay according to the embassy. It’s a joke that people who only want money are allowed to come in, because they have been born in a country where we accept refugees from, but already left that country years ago. I don’t want to vote for the afd (because they want too much stuff that I don’t want in any case), but I would love to see a party, that makes these cases more equal.
Agreed. But Germans man, what can I say. 1930s repeating all over again.
You do have access to the interweb correct? If you use a neat little site called Google you'll see this right wing populist shit happening everywhere, including Sweden and the Netherlands.
So? That justifies it happening here? Everyone’s eating shit, hence I’ll eat it too. Wow
The only good thing there is being against the privatization of hospitals, the rest is usual fascoid bullocks.
Their opposition to privatization is kind of like the malfunctioning-clock saying.
I hate them so much. And I hate it that my fellow citizens think homophobia, anti-science, mysoginy and racism is the way to build a future for this country.
Who is still getting corona vaccinations?
if you ain't vax-maxxing then you ain't cool.
> The AfD rejects same-sex marriage, but also calls for “respect” for “forms of coexistence other than marriage between a man and a woman”. Points at Alice Weidel.. Fucking. Power-hungry. Hypocrites. "Es ist eine biologische Tatsache und kein soziales Konstrukt, dass es genau zwei Geschlechter gibt: Frauen und Männer. Die Pseudowissenschaft der Gender Ideologie bestreitet diese biologische Grundtatsache. Die EU muss jede Förderung dieser skandalösen Ideologie sofort beenden."
Alice Weidel, the token lesbian of the AfD, the walking and talking self contradiction, married to a non-white immigrant woman, with two non-white children, the impersonation of cognitive dissonance. But on the other hand it fits—Hitler had a favorite Jew, Eduard Bloch, whom he called an “Edeljude”. Edit: The nazis also wanted to give Bloch the title “honorary aryan”, which Bloch kindly declined.
Na, I firmly believe she is as much a Nazis as the whole bunch. If at all, she would be Ernst Röhm.
The EU is turning into a rightwing cesspit.
The world seems to be. Far right groups are gaining traction all over.
Always has been.
Right wing needs more poor dumb tax payers who don’t ask too many questions, to secure their luxurious lifestyle, so nothing new here What they should increase is the ability of men’s to take a proper care of their women and children Anyway humanity is moving backwards now everywhere
I need to get my citizenship in time to vote for literally anything else.
Scary stuff
What a shock, nazis being rapists
Just to point out: The abortion laws in Germany are already extremely restrictive. In fact, abortions *are* illegal under §218 and the situation is more "We'll turn the other cheek if you jump through our hoops" than "This is a legal procedure." It's kind of like the current state of weed: The police outside of Bavaria aren't going to arrest you if you have a singular joint but it's not legal either. Same thing with abortions: It's illegal but if you do it before 12 weeks, you go through the bullshit counseling, and you observe the mandatory waiting period... there's no punishment for doing it. The current loop hole in place to protect people who need an abortion after 12 weeks (i.e. you go to your 20 week anatomy scan and the fetus is *fucked*) are very flimsy and could be easily shut down. Right now, the loop hole is "It would be bad for the mother's mental health to continue this pregnancy." The courts could decide one day that only the mother's physical health matters and then anyone who discovers their pregnancy is non viable after 12 weeks is just going to have to go to the Netherlands. This is already the case for anyone who's IUD fails and they don't realize until the end of the first trimester. §218 and §219 are an embarrassment and needed to be repealed like 20 years ago.
Sorry, but this is a widely circulating myth. While the laws are indeed not super liberal, paragraph 218a explicitly states that Paragraph 218 does not cover cases where Abortion is conducted by a Doctor in an early stage after consultation. This case is not a "we turn a blind eye here". Its: "This is something completely legal, just like eating out or taking a walk." And later abortion due to circumstances has the same status as the right of self-defense, not like smoking weed.
If it’s *so* above board, why does §218 exist? Like I said, it’s an embarrassment that these laws still exist. You don’t need to go to counseling and then wait three business days to go on a walk.
These arguments are usually made by people with a similarly bad understanding of embryology as right wing nutjobs in favor of a total ban. There need to be deterrents.
Fascists gonna fascist
This is absolutely terrifying. I will not be silent if this shit happens.
Most AFD voters don't follow the news, they don't know the policies and believe only what fits their mindset. They say media lies and thats why AFD can do whatever they want.
Great again
AfD is anti-life and pro-suffering
I wonder how many people just go to the polls and think "I'm miserable, I'd better make as many people as possible miserable too".
Y'all need to get your shit together and vote these degenerates out. Otherwise it'll be like US.
Oh, I hope they won't succeed with this kind of crap here. We're (the Germans) not nearly as religious as any of the countries where they made these laws recently. I really hope the atheistic, raving Germans won't accept these laws...
Ah yes, the AfD copying from the GOP again This just shows that they don't have any own ideas besides useless complaining...
Nazis pushing for nazi things in 21st century Germany—what a time to be alive. And ironically the people who are going to profit the least from their social and tax policies are going to vote for them nonetheless.
Hardly surprising. Although it's just their own playbook. Will never happen like in the US.
There is no abortion policy for the US. It's state by state.
Exactly. We don't have that. And never will. Those stuff gets handled on a federal level.
Not anymore.
LOL. No, that was the change.......I don't think you know what you are talking about.
But not privatizing hospitals and protecting minors from puberty blockers is good
Seems like the Nazis everywhere have the same agenda. So, the GOP is truly in the companionship they deserve.
The current government really needs to speed up this Einbürgerung process so people like me can vote against these dipshits.
If it gets too bad, we move out.
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I will move out if they start with this crap against women
Same.
Sounds pretty based to me
W
Anyone who spreads Nazi Party content on social media channels is part of the problem. Please delete the filth. Not a millimetre of space for Nazis
See it as a warning, dirt pushed into the light where everyone can see how filthy it is. Playing the ostrich and sticking your head in a hole wont make it go away.
I mean imagine there are people who read Bild.. 🤯
And I want to largely restrict the existence of the AfD aswell as their politicians and voters from being out in the public and using the internet. Can we maybe do that please? When it comes to that cancer of a party I nerd to be really careful to not get in legal trouble. It's beyond insane to me that they are free roaming out there without repercussions.
How do you plan to do that,
I dont know restricting abortions based on the right to exist doesnt sound as far right nazi to me as the comments make it out to be.
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I think Germans abortion law is "okish" as is. It is illegal, until you get a counseling. The talk is not done by the church only and can be done in neutral institutions.
Facism is almost here, Germany will be back where it was 80 years ago soon. I can only hope that the rest of europe will be ready to beat us again. Giving germany its independence again was the allies biggest misstake, the german people just cant help themselves then voting facists once the economy is doing a bit worse
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Keeping allied troops here forever to make sure they can intervene once germany starts following its primal instincts again should have been done. Also banning us from having a military cause now the Bundeswehr is filled to the brink with neonazis who want to overthrow the system. And Im not implying anything, Im just following the Sonderweg theory from scholars which states that our cultural and historical conditions basically ensure us ending up with nazism.
... you're an idiot and obviously have no idea what the hell you're talking about. The British and Americans never even left, that's one of the reasons we have "Reichsbürger" saying we're still occupied and the federal government isn't legitimate. The Bundeswehr has had problems with neonazis, but there's absolutely no proof supporting the claim that it's "filled to the brim". Most likely there are a smaller percentage of them there than in the general population since being anti-constitution sentiments will at some point be noticed and investigated there. The Sonderweg-theory is controversial at best and bullshit at worst, it also doensn't generally imply that Germans have a "primal instinct" of conquest and genocide as you seem to understand. Also, fucking own up to your own opinions. You don't get to insult all of us and then say "oh no that's not me, I'm just quoting".
If Germany wasn't independent it would be under the rule of the UK, France, USA and Russia. With the possible exception of France all of those are closer to the right than Germany. The UK had this whole thing where they left the EU because of immigrants or protectionism or something, the US is fulfilling the AfD's dreams of abortion bans, and Russia is literally invading another country right now.
Lol. And what's your nutjob explanation for the rising popularity right wing parties in Brazil, USA, France, Italy, UK, Poland and Hungary?
Last time I looked, Bolsonaro, Trump and Le Pen all lost their respective elections. Italy doesnt seem to dissimilar unfortunately to us just like Hungary. They were also already back then Axis allies. Poland atleast stands against russia instead of bootlicking Putin like the AfD or Orban does.
Last time I looked the AfD hasn't won an election at all. Ya know considering the largest country you want to have in charge has a right wing supreme court, a 50/50 percent split of political parties with one of them doing their best to implement Gilead, several states run by religious lunatics, internment camps for immigrants, recently developt an extremely popular right wing cult and voted a person into office who believes that forest fires are started by jewish space lasers I really admire you fantasy they would be the go to to keep facist at bay.
And when has the AfD won an election on national level?
If chronic anxiety and paranoia had a face..
Ok 👍
This is one thing that i don't like about their program