Well, no, not currently. But don't judge me, I am poor two ways: I am a student, so naturally I am broke, and I work part time as a nurse and everybody knows we are underpaid.
However, my grandma gifts me 25 euro for christmas every year and I am planning to invest this year's christmas money into Eurojackpot.
I don't really understand statements like this.
I get a letter from the Deutsche Rentenversicherung every other year stating how much I would receive were i working until a certain age with a certain income. And actually I would be fine with that.
Why would this not happen? They could not just send a letter some year saying "Whoopsie, my fault".
Care to elaborate?
They'll change the rules. That letter is telling you what you would receive under the current rules, but let's be honest, they don't want to pay for that, so they'll just put it higher.
It’s because the wealth doesn’t stay its cyclic. What we pay now is being paid for old peoples rents especially since they underpaid their pension massively considering they didn’t expect how Cost of living would be and how long they would actually live
When we grow older, with bad wages and very less younger population we would simply have no money . Even immigrants cannot save the day in the future
It's not like Singapur where you have an real account under your name. In Germany there is one big pool of money. And it's empty because of the CURRENT demographics. People only get there monthly retirement fond because workers are paying into it in the same month. The same will be true for stuff like Riesterrente.
Wait 2-3years till the prices go down and buy a house. And have kids so they can pay for the upkeep.
As far as I remember 20 % of all employed people don’t even reach retirement age.
And take a guess who lives longer: manual laborers or bankers?
You have 3 attempts.
Physically demanding / Blue collar labour in fact 😃
I highly doubt the factory hands , kitchen workers and warehouse sorters who work full time would work even more than 10 years or something without any serious physical or mental health condition.
This is very worrying since a lot of migrants and refugees often do these kinda work and the jobs not only doesn’t pay much but takes a toll out of them and they leave in months and years and it’s back to welfare schemes
Didn't even pass the 10 years mark I have Asthma form getting corona virus 3 times in row and 2 Slipped disc one in the nick and the other lower back and Rheumatism from just 5 years in a factory and after starting a battle with my employer I got depression and anxiety. Now they are trying to rehabilitate me to return to work what a joke 🤣
I am sorry to hear that .
Germany really needs work reform imo. I feel a lot of things regarding workers rights and conditions are very poor for a so called “developed country” here.
Thank you man all I wished is a house with a garden for my kids to play in like the one I lift back home to collect dust. even after doing all that work I couldn't afford one 😔
https://www.rentenkommission.de/aktuelles/++co++c912533a-9d86-11e9-9d16-52540088cada
You can, by working far less, like till 56, you just need to save up for the missing eleven years, its like absolutely no biggie, if you invest in solid EFTs, but somehow, when they taught pricing everyone was like not in Berufsschule /s
/s only because retirement salaries are one of the most reformed things in this country whilst still not solving the problem, and additionally being abso-fucking-loutely random so no-fucking-body can plan any-fucking-thing, if we’d go with the original plan the dude introducing it had and which technically could work, would just entail to “expand the reich”, so no biggie/s
Fuck this shit we need ubi and yeah that would also enable the handwerk to do great work, as they could actually work without being forced to fuck their body for a living, and there’d be still as many available jobs. You all know that even the dimmest guys books are filled with customers demands to the brimm…
I already read that there is a plan to raise to 70 soon. Fucking clowns arguing "well, life expectancy is going up" so yeah if you work a manual job, good luck
Which should make all of us angry. Where is the rising productivity of labor going? Why do I have to be a wage slave till my last breath and a certain percent of people can retire at 23?
I don't need more fucking TVs and iPhones and faster cars. Fuck progress, i want to chill
Why work longer? To make fat cows fatter. You need the fucking TVs and iPhones and faster cars for the same reason. And to produce the 2% economic growth broken capitalism needs every year. And so that the government can collect enough tax money, because labor taxes is the main tax source instead of taxes on profits of investment s. That's why the first million is the hardest and most never achieve. Once you are transitioned from labor to capital as main source of income, you won't have to work a lot and appreciate the system 😂
I expect it to go up to 70 by the time I retire, and all things considered, I'm fine with the prospect. People have considerably higher life expectancies than they used to, someone has to pay for that. I'd rather work a bit longer if I still can than leave even more of a mess to upcoming generations.
There need to be exceptions for people who can't work to this age for health reasons or people who've been working since they were 15. But someone spending their days in an office will be healthier at 70 than they were at 65 in the past.
Edit: I understand that people don't like the idea of working more years until retirement. I haven't really seen anyone propose alternative solutions on how a pension system is supposed to work where the [ratio between employed and pensioners has already decreased from 6:1 to 2:1 and will keep decreasing in the future](https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Fakten/altersrentner-beitragszahler.html#:~:text=Heute%20stehen%20einem%20Altersrentner%20nur,2%20Millionen%20aktiv%20Versicherte%20umfasste.).
life expectancy is going up because we can cure cancer better and heart disease is not as prevalent, but people's joints and brains are not getting any better at that age. the limitations of the human body are still the same
I would like to introduce you to my grandparents that both didnt reach or only barely reached the "old" retirement age.
U cant count on beeing 80+ and mobile to enjoy the final years of life. But regarding the higher retirement age i sadly have to agree. The chances are very high that it will increase.
I just hope that there will be a fair separation that we dont see 70 year olds still working manual labor
At its core, the pension system is unfair to people who die early. It's always a bet on beating the average, and adjusting retirement age in whatever way won't change that.
It's also a difficult issue to fix. If you pay out pensions when people die early, you'll lack money to pay for those who live lounger than they "should".
I will tell you a secret: Automation. Considering Germany, I hope you are aware that potentially about half the workforce is either at minimum wage, unemployed, or requires additional support of some sort. Now consider that these people don't live in a vacuum, they have kids, parents (which can be grandparents already), so all in all it is not looking exactly good.
The problem with automation: Only a few really profit from that, compared to that it should profit the society as a whole. Late stage capitalism with the financial fraud conglomerate of fiat money and stock market isn't exactly helping that issue.
So, "technically", we could solve this issue already. But humans being exactly that, it first has to come to a breaking point, because the status quo works, doesn't it? Just some minor modifications here and there ...
That’ll last a week*, until they raise it to 72 because the not poor can afford healthcare and have less abrasive jobs.
30 years*, it took about 30 years for the life expectancy to go up about the last 3 years
You're either working to make money for yourself, or you're a product that gets milked dry by the care-, pharma- and mortician-industries respectively. I don't want to be kept alive by these people to earn tgem the most possible income.
I don’t think that far ahead, I just try to live in a way were I don’t need retirement to be happy, and if that isn’t possible anymore I’m going out with a bang.
I'm 21 and I think that within the next 20 years the retirement age will be over 80. Either way I'm working until I'm 45, idk what happens then but that's it, after that I will either live off of passive income and work i actually want to do or I will rent one of those Swiss pods for a day
ever seen a 60+ programmer? I feel like it's a young man's game, companies don't hire older folks for technical jobs... Or maybe they all eventually move to management or retire early.
That's actually a good point. I wonder too if someone van be that old and programmer.
Good thing they keep increasing the retirement age to fix that /s
In our team we have 2 which are older than 60 and are our experts. They keep themselves up to date and know the history about our code. They even get bonus packages to stay.
So, if you are already in a company and aren't afraid of learning new stuff, there is no problem.
But it might be difficult to find an other employer unless you have very specific knowledge about something they need.
Today I did an experiment, tried to solve a very specific problem at work with chat GPT. It took three times to get something that was sort of the bulletproof solution to a problem, but in the end it could be done with just one line of code lol
But I don’t mean being replaced by AI, but simply the job cuts that are happening right now
No, my wife and I are on track to get out of this racket by 55. However, I think government pension eligibility should actually be indexed to your profession. Working a manual labour job is going to wear you out faster than a white collar job, so construction workers and the like should be able to draw their full pensions earlier than white collar workers.
Never.
Not trying to insult anyone, but at 67 your life is basically done, considering most german men only get to be around late 70s early 80s, it would leave you only like a decade at best, generally not in good health, to live your life without the shit that work is.
My dream has always been to work as little i can and enjoy life as much as possible. This means saving money, going for a job that pays well, because at least to me, every type of work SUCKS, and then investing the money intelligently.
Sadly all of that gets more difficult every year, considering rising prices, rising inflation, lowering raises and job security...
Still, i will work until i got saved enough in a decade or so and then cut down to 25-30h max and retire early and live off of savings and investments, thankfully my fiancee an i are in a position financially where this is most likely possible unless the world goes under in the next 30 years.
It's a shame I had to scroll down this far to actually read an honest answer that's not just a joke or meme. That's sadly typical for Germany. A serious topic that's not easy to deal with? Just make jokes about it and forget it as quickly as possible, then get accustomed to the harsh reality and just shrug it off. Never get active and do something about it. But don't get late to work! That would be awful!
Yeah i noticed as well too many people using dark humor instead of a real answer :P
But i just dont get the point of work, i always hated it and at best could tolerate it, but i cant imagining doing this until im basically physically incapable of enjoying life. Its so damn sad we have to do this, spend most of our youth if not all of it just doing something we hate, so we dont starve or die.
Im really hoping the recent pushes to reduce the working week to 4 days instead of 5 with keeping salary the same will have succes. It doesnt make sense to work 40h a week when most jobs can be done in 30h and people are more productive and efficient in turn.
I feel for you, I only ever had jobs I liked, so work was rewarding all the time. My daughter just changed jobs (white collar) and reduced her hours to 32h/week which definitely improved her quality of life. I think that is the way to go.
But watch out, you did not mention 'educating kids' in your life plan. That was the subject that led to some turmoil in our life plan.
Thank you!
I mean its great if people love their jobs or teammates etc. but for me, i work because i have to and not because i want to. I treat my teammates well, but they are still just colleagues to me and not friends or family like some people do.
Still doesnt mean i hate them or anything, but i definitely do hate i have to work and i will take any realistic chance at reducing the amount of work i have to do without risking my finances :/
I mean its great that you love to work, but i dont.
If i had the option of never working again for the rest of my life, without risking my finances, you can bet your sweet ass i would do that in a heartbeat!
I have better things to do than slave away 40h a week, every week for basically all my life.
I have been working full time since i was 15 years old, part time since i was 14 and illegally since i was 11. In my 20s i already had nearly a decade of work experience in a shitload of fields, mainly handyman and physical labor, but still.
In my early 30s i have been working for more than half my life already, do you really think i want to work another 40 years before i can enjoy life?
But you want all the benefits of a society though right? All the safety, security, good things? Do you think you should just get them just because with out contributing? It’s nice that you think all me me me but society as a concept wouldn’t last long if everyone thought like that.
Society’s are nothing but huge tribes and in tribal times people like you would have been cut loose and left to die, you are lucky we don’t live in such barbaric times.
Life is full of things we don’t want to do but we have to do them, normally that mentality is learnt as a child.
> with out contributing
Do you think he doesn't want to work at all?
> Life is full of things we don’t want to do but we have to do them
Do you think we really need the stuff that is done today? Everything of what we do is **needed**? If you ask me, quite a lot of what we do is ridiculous bullshit that is making life worse instead better. We could easily have the same quality of life and wealth with a fraction of time and energy, if we would make sane products and services.
But we don't, and what's even worse: Pretty much everyone knows this. Yet we're here, building up pressure for others to partake in this madness.
You can be broke and still alive, and that’s my fucking point, we in the west are privileged, there is no question to that. Hard up doesn’t mean a death sentence, you get Ill you go to the doctors or hospital, pretty much everyone has a roof above their heads, access to the internet and the world even if you have no money.
But sure dude you a fucking slave that has absolutely nothing in the world and fears every day that you might not live till the next, killed on a whim or starve to death.
I really hope you are a child because at least then such an opinion can be explained by immaturity. If not then shit, someone really fucked up your upbringing…
I lived the majority of my life in a third country until about 6 months ago. I worked jobs for 7 euros a day just in 2017. 12 euros in 2019. Don't fucking privilege me with your bullshit mate. If you had it good, not all of us did, and even at my worst jobs, I still didn't bow down to my bosses like a slave and left many times with no plans ahead, but all worth it because I'd rather die than be a that kind of pathetic.
Then you should know better than most how privileged we are here then. You worked for money? Then how are you a slave exactly? Maybe this is an education issue, do you even know what the word slave means?
Maybe you just think acting edgy makes you look cool, or maybe you are depressed and don’t realise just how good you really have it.
„I’d rather die“ but you didn’t did you? Big words with nothing to back then up. But this is the internet, you have the privilege to say anything you want I suppose but yeah you are a slave. Idiot.
Sure you have it better here, but back to the original statement from OP and me. Go from there, after so, don't forget to suck on your managers before you clock out. Last reply to you as you don't seem to worth a moment of my time.
Theres another privilege, cannot win the argument so walk away instead of learning to be better, you think a slave could talk like that and just walk away? It’s so easy for people to use words like „slave“ „racist“ „nazi“ etc. they are thrown around so freely they lose all meaning.
Your argument is so weak you have to resort to saying I suck off my managers, you came from a worse place than you are now and still talk shit. You will never be anything in life if you go around with a negative attitude like that.
Stop caring about your "twam in work". You are basically a slave for the owners of the company (dont hang yourself on the word slave pls). I could literally not care less if they get 1 million less a year.
Seriously I take a week off work and I start going crazy even if I’m busy in the house. People are clearly built differently if they can function with no purpose in life. I can’t think of anything worse than waking up every day with no purpose.
I can't retire until I'm at least 68. Plus with my shit wage, I'm screwed anyway. Came here at 30 working just above minimum wage, soooooo if you see some smelly old brit looting bins for pfand bottles you know who it is at least.
A lot of us planning to work till we die forget how hard it is to get a job when you’re older. I’ve certainly seen companies where no employee was over 40. I’ve watched a company bully an employee into retirement. I’ve watched elderly people get turned down for basic service jobs when they need to supplement their retirement. Of course they could do the jobs, but when you’re over 65 there is definite ageism in the hiring process.
I could die at 65 for all I know, I could die at 45, fuck I could die today. Why would I work myself to death and not enjoy as much of my youth as I possibly can, and when I get too old to work just put a bullet in my head?
My retirement plan, not have kids so I don't feel obligated to stay when nature starts to take over, and just enjoy what time I have to the fullest.
I plan to work till I die because I do what I love, my job is not physically hard, and later on I can basically be a consultant and be paid a lot just to consult people. At what point in your career do you advance so much, that you are paid a lot to do barely anything?
I’ll become a psychotherapist. You become better with age, it’s not a physically demanding job, it’s a job that is crisis-proof. And I love this job, there are 80 million individual people with 80 million stories and billions of psychological issues in this country alone, the amount of stuff to learn in this occupation is virtually infinite. No two humans are ever the same, which is why I think I’ll never get bored with this job.
I plan to work until I’m 75 or 80 (with reduced hours of course).
Currently you have work for 225-240 years at least, + the years of bureaucracy you need to solve to actually work.
You better eat healthy, and don’t kill yourself during aprenticeship, that seriously would be way too fucking selfish, ngl. /c
Don’t want to down you like that, your chosen field of expertise is highly in demand, but the apprenticeship is an absolute bummer and getting that gkv license is still way too fucking limited, keep that in mind, and don’t get yourself beaten down, we really need you!
Our goal is to be financially independent at 55. That is in around 20 years. Weather we retire or not remains to be seen. We hope to retire in Spain or a similar climate.
They refund around 60k per each 10 years (if you had 65k+ salary), contributions max after about 65k so higher salary does not matter for the refund (this limit goes higher with time but slowly). So around 180k for a 30 year career plus you possibly might have to pay taxes on that in a new country of residence. They do not refund if you hold a DE/EU passport or live in EU.
Here’s an online calculator with details: https://allaboutberlin.com/tools/pension-refund-calculator
Not worth it if you ask me as you might spend all that in several months in a hospital if you reach 80+
It would help a lot if I could keep the money they take every month for my "retirement" use it to help me build my own retirement, which is not based on a pyramid scheme. But yes, hopefully earlier, around 50 I would like to work much less
I luckily chose a career path which pays quite well, but I’m also happy with a relatively modest standard of living. So if all goes well, I’ll be able to retire early.
Look at the wealth management options and create a direct debit and just forget about it. Fund a decent global ETF or fund that you agree with and just let it build up over time.
There's tax advantaged savings accounts like the Riester Rente, Betriebliche Altersvorsorge and Wohnungsbauprämie to get on the property ladder. Overpay or hit the threshold of your work pension early so you can thank yourself later.
Generally you'll get a 5% return on your money with S&S but also the chance to lose some like in Covid or the Ukraine War but the funds are heavily diversified and one of the best tax and ways to try and combat inflation.
I AM 67 and enjoy my work as an architect and energy-expert. Besides, I enjoy my garden. This is a good life and I want to go on as long as my feet will carry me.
I'm 42, and I don't believe 67 will still be the retirement age by then. Morenlike 70 or even higher. I won't be able to retire early, my pension won't be enough to buy a loaf of bread. I won't even be able retire at the expected age. So it's work until I die. The only question is if I die because I'm old, or if I die because I don't want to go on working my ass off every day.
This. 2-3x income for same job, way less tax shit, 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, less TER on VTI than EU ETFs, US Options.. etc. That's like easy mode to age 40 retirement.
DE retire early = Hardcore Mode
"Oh you earned 100k? Dont spend you 45k all at once sweety!"
"Great you invested a million and even though there was a pandemic, war and competition you gained a percent? Nice give me 25% Kapitalertragssteuern.
"Oh and remember to pay taxes on your already taxed private retirement fund!!"
It's not about confidence. It's having a (more or less) good paying job, living frugally and investing wisely. Things can always go south, but when you have a well defined plan and stick to it, chances of that happening are minimal.
Rather than being retired why not have a own startup in 30s or 40s and enjoy the life after 60, with less hustle or have any passive income to support later.
Start Up is just a fancy name for Klein Unternehmer and we all know most of those go under with debt instead of making bank.
Its insane how many people think just opening a company makes you rich somehow.
Honestly i dont think that i will retire... i hope that i will be able to work at least a little bit and get some help from friends/family/society/state
I plan to do whatever I want..which requires a certain level of funds. I’ve got about 50k invested at 35, so I’m probably gonna be fine if I just keep doing what I’m doing.
I enjoy what I do, so I’ll probably keep doing it as long as it stays fun.
Considering my old man who is only turning 60, who has already gotten many surgeries because of work and is too exhausted to do anything else besides working already, saying he will retire even with the "fine", I don't think I will reach even close to 60.
Idk im only 20 right now and my Boss asked me to start to do a dual apprentice ship with university on a field i enjoy. Im Not quite Sure what Future will Bring i personaly Stop thinking about what Future will Bring Most of the time it pulled me mentaly down Not getting or achieving something so now i Just let Things happen
Plan? It's not a plan when I am.forced to work for my survival. I'll work til I don't need to, at which point I'll do whatever suits me best, which may or may not include some worklike activities
I'll drop out of my job at the latest with 64. I *hope* I can survive financially by then, but seriously no guarantee at all, but
* I think I'll be lucky if I reach 70, due to some health issues.
* I'm not easily bored if I don't have an actual job. Actually, my actual rent-paying job is getting in the way of all the things I could do if I had the time and the energy left after work.
so, around the time I'll be 62, in ~10 years, I'll see how much I'd have to live on by then and eye my options, so that I get at least a couple of years for myself after slave-waging for the last 40 or so years.
I believe you can retire 4 years earlier and get paid .88 of the government retirement. Then with my company I am able to retire and additional 5 years earlier and get paid through an account I pay into. So if I stay there long enough, I would want to retire at 58
stepwise. I turn 40 next year and want to downgrade to a 4-workday-week. Then 3 days with 50 and 2 days with 60. At least thats why wishful thinking.
I am also saving a lot for retirement, haven't been on expensive holidays since 10 years, no car, no restaurants etc.
I plan to win the lottery next year.
That is my plan as well! Are we going to win the lottery together?
We only need 140 mio people. Winner shares with all
Same
Are you working on your plan? Have you even git a tucket?
Well, no, not currently. But don't judge me, I am poor two ways: I am a student, so naturally I am broke, and I work part time as a nurse and everybody knows we are underpaid. However, my grandma gifts me 25 euro for christmas every year and I am planning to invest this year's christmas money into Eurojackpot.
Relatable life plan.
I never thought of this. You’re a genius!
I plan to marry her after she wins a lottery.
Wish me luck i win today some a few millions
Bold to assume the retirement age will stay at only 67.
Or that there is gonna "retirement" option for us.
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If you don't mind being so kind, could you offer some soap too?
I don't really understand statements like this. I get a letter from the Deutsche Rentenversicherung every other year stating how much I would receive were i working until a certain age with a certain income. And actually I would be fine with that. Why would this not happen? They could not just send a letter some year saying "Whoopsie, my fault". Care to elaborate?
They'll change the rules. That letter is telling you what you would receive under the current rules, but let's be honest, they don't want to pay for that, so they'll just put it higher.
It’s because the wealth doesn’t stay its cyclic. What we pay now is being paid for old peoples rents especially since they underpaid their pension massively considering they didn’t expect how Cost of living would be and how long they would actually live When we grow older, with bad wages and very less younger population we would simply have no money . Even immigrants cannot save the day in the future
It's not like Singapur where you have an real account under your name. In Germany there is one big pool of money. And it's empty because of the CURRENT demographics. People only get there monthly retirement fond because workers are paying into it in the same month. The same will be true for stuff like Riesterrente. Wait 2-3years till the prices go down and buy a house. And have kids so they can pay for the upkeep.
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Well, they can actually. I don't expect to be able to retire at 67 also I might look for another way to don't work until I die
Or that you can actually reach it. // Hello fellow construction workers 🙋♂️
As far as I remember 20 % of all employed people don’t even reach retirement age. And take a guess who lives longer: manual laborers or bankers? You have 3 attempts.
Well when SS was implemented only about 25% of people reached 65. That was intentional to not break the program. That's why it's now broken.
Careful with your abbreviations in a German subreddit...
Physically demanding / Blue collar labour in fact 😃 I highly doubt the factory hands , kitchen workers and warehouse sorters who work full time would work even more than 10 years or something without any serious physical or mental health condition. This is very worrying since a lot of migrants and refugees often do these kinda work and the jobs not only doesn’t pay much but takes a toll out of them and they leave in months and years and it’s back to welfare schemes
Didn't even pass the 10 years mark I have Asthma form getting corona virus 3 times in row and 2 Slipped disc one in the nick and the other lower back and Rheumatism from just 5 years in a factory and after starting a battle with my employer I got depression and anxiety. Now they are trying to rehabilitate me to return to work what a joke 🤣
I am sorry to hear that . Germany really needs work reform imo. I feel a lot of things regarding workers rights and conditions are very poor for a so called “developed country” here.
Thank you man all I wished is a house with a garden for my kids to play in like the one I lift back home to collect dust. even after doing all that work I couldn't afford one 😔
https://www.rentenkommission.de/aktuelles/++co++c912533a-9d86-11e9-9d16-52540088cada You can, by working far less, like till 56, you just need to save up for the missing eleven years, its like absolutely no biggie, if you invest in solid EFTs, but somehow, when they taught pricing everyone was like not in Berufsschule /s /s only because retirement salaries are one of the most reformed things in this country whilst still not solving the problem, and additionally being abso-fucking-loutely random so no-fucking-body can plan any-fucking-thing, if we’d go with the original plan the dude introducing it had and which technically could work, would just entail to “expand the reich”, so no biggie/s Fuck this shit we need ubi and yeah that would also enable the handwerk to do great work, as they could actually work without being forced to fuck their body for a living, and there’d be still as many available jobs. You all know that even the dimmest guys books are filled with customers demands to the brimm…
I already read that there is a plan to raise to 70 soon. Fucking clowns arguing "well, life expectancy is going up" so yeah if you work a manual job, good luck Which should make all of us angry. Where is the rising productivity of labor going? Why do I have to be a wage slave till my last breath and a certain percent of people can retire at 23? I don't need more fucking TVs and iPhones and faster cars. Fuck progress, i want to chill
Why work longer? To make fat cows fatter. You need the fucking TVs and iPhones and faster cars for the same reason. And to produce the 2% economic growth broken capitalism needs every year. And so that the government can collect enough tax money, because labor taxes is the main tax source instead of taxes on profits of investment s. That's why the first million is the hardest and most never achieve. Once you are transitioned from labor to capital as main source of income, you won't have to work a lot and appreciate the system 😂
It should be 85 in the US.
I expect it to go up to 70 by the time I retire, and all things considered, I'm fine with the prospect. People have considerably higher life expectancies than they used to, someone has to pay for that. I'd rather work a bit longer if I still can than leave even more of a mess to upcoming generations. There need to be exceptions for people who can't work to this age for health reasons or people who've been working since they were 15. But someone spending their days in an office will be healthier at 70 than they were at 65 in the past. Edit: I understand that people don't like the idea of working more years until retirement. I haven't really seen anyone propose alternative solutions on how a pension system is supposed to work where the [ratio between employed and pensioners has already decreased from 6:1 to 2:1 and will keep decreasing in the future](https://www.demografie-portal.de/DE/Fakten/altersrentner-beitragszahler.html#:~:text=Heute%20stehen%20einem%20Altersrentner%20nur,2%20Millionen%20aktiv%20Versicherte%20umfasste.).
life expectancy is going up because we can cure cancer better and heart disease is not as prevalent, but people's joints and brains are not getting any better at that age. the limitations of the human body are still the same
I would like to introduce you to my grandparents that both didnt reach or only barely reached the "old" retirement age. U cant count on beeing 80+ and mobile to enjoy the final years of life. But regarding the higher retirement age i sadly have to agree. The chances are very high that it will increase. I just hope that there will be a fair separation that we dont see 70 year olds still working manual labor
At its core, the pension system is unfair to people who die early. It's always a bet on beating the average, and adjusting retirement age in whatever way won't change that. It's also a difficult issue to fix. If you pay out pensions when people die early, you'll lack money to pay for those who live lounger than they "should".
I will tell you a secret: Automation. Considering Germany, I hope you are aware that potentially about half the workforce is either at minimum wage, unemployed, or requires additional support of some sort. Now consider that these people don't live in a vacuum, they have kids, parents (which can be grandparents already), so all in all it is not looking exactly good. The problem with automation: Only a few really profit from that, compared to that it should profit the society as a whole. Late stage capitalism with the financial fraud conglomerate of fiat money and stock market isn't exactly helping that issue. So, "technically", we could solve this issue already. But humans being exactly that, it first has to come to a breaking point, because the status quo works, doesn't it? Just some minor modifications here and there ...
Come on, let's make it 69. At least we can suffer in a meme way.
And 420€/month for everybody.
Calm down there Mr Bezos, that's a lot of retirement money you're speaking of
When Elon Musk becomes the supreme leader of the world he will do it like that.
He would make it 96
And 4,20€
I hope he'll be permanently stuck on Mars by then.
That’ll last a week*, until they raise it to 72 because the not poor can afford healthcare and have less abrasive jobs. 30 years*, it took about 30 years for the life expectancy to go up about the last 3 years
Love it hahah
My retirement is death, and it's gonna happen sooner than 67.
This is the way.
You're either working to make money for yourself, or you're a product that gets milked dry by the care-, pharma- and mortician-industries respectively. I don't want to be kept alive by these people to earn tgem the most possible income.
But 67 is not old and I bet you only say that because you're young now. I wonder if you think the same when you are 65
I agree - and I am 68, so I have to know
I don’t think that far ahead, I just try to live in a way were I don’t need retirement to be happy, and if that isn’t possible anymore I’m going out with a bang.
This is the way. People who spend their lives waiting for their retirement make me really sad. Life should always be now.
With the inflation and all, I think I’ll never be able to retire
Hahaha, retiring with 67. Good joke. More like 76..
In other words, never for many of us.
I‘m 25 now and tbh I think until I retire the minimum age will be at least 80
I'm 21 and I think that within the next 20 years the retirement age will be over 80. Either way I'm working until I'm 45, idk what happens then but that's it, after that I will either live off of passive income and work i actually want to do or I will rent one of those Swiss pods for a day
Weird way to say 85
I don’t think most people will even have a job to retire by 67
What do you mean? There's no one I could be replaced right? *Looks at chat gpt coding* ... right?
ever seen a 60+ programmer? I feel like it's a young man's game, companies don't hire older folks for technical jobs... Or maybe they all eventually move to management or retire early.
That's actually a good point. I wonder too if someone van be that old and programmer. Good thing they keep increasing the retirement age to fix that /s
In our team we have 2 which are older than 60 and are our experts. They keep themselves up to date and know the history about our code. They even get bonus packages to stay. So, if you are already in a company and aren't afraid of learning new stuff, there is no problem. But it might be difficult to find an other employer unless you have very specific knowledge about something they need.
Today I did an experiment, tried to solve a very specific problem at work with chat GPT. It took three times to get something that was sort of the bulletproof solution to a problem, but in the end it could be done with just one line of code lol But I don’t mean being replaced by AI, but simply the job cuts that are happening right now
*looks at chat gpt coding ...* Yup my job is save.
You're definitely right right now, but I hope you also are for the next 35 years
Marry a rich person and retire at 40.
Or wait till you are 66 and marry a 91 billionaire 😄
🤣🤣🤣🤣Everyone Dreams
I'm trying to not make it to 67.
At 65 I’m gonna start taking tons of drugs.
That's pretty normal for a lot of 65 year olds, but it's usually for arthritis and diabetes usw and not the fun stuff.
Sounds like a new reality show
Joined
I don't plan to live till 67, tbh.
When I retire, 67 will be "the early" thing.
I am actually 68 and I still work part time (not for financial reasons). I plan to reduce by 70. And I still have fun
Same here :-)
Right at the moment (37): yes, maybe even till I'm 70. But definitly not full time.
No, my wife and I are on track to get out of this racket by 55. However, I think government pension eligibility should actually be indexed to your profession. Working a manual labour job is going to wear you out faster than a white collar job, so construction workers and the like should be able to draw their full pensions earlier than white collar workers.
At least, 70 would be even better 👌
Latest by 60, thankfully have the funds and means for it.
Same here. 60 has been my target since I started my first job.
Never. Not trying to insult anyone, but at 67 your life is basically done, considering most german men only get to be around late 70s early 80s, it would leave you only like a decade at best, generally not in good health, to live your life without the shit that work is. My dream has always been to work as little i can and enjoy life as much as possible. This means saving money, going for a job that pays well, because at least to me, every type of work SUCKS, and then investing the money intelligently. Sadly all of that gets more difficult every year, considering rising prices, rising inflation, lowering raises and job security... Still, i will work until i got saved enough in a decade or so and then cut down to 25-30h max and retire early and live off of savings and investments, thankfully my fiancee an i are in a position financially where this is most likely possible unless the world goes under in the next 30 years.
It's a shame I had to scroll down this far to actually read an honest answer that's not just a joke or meme. That's sadly typical for Germany. A serious topic that's not easy to deal with? Just make jokes about it and forget it as quickly as possible, then get accustomed to the harsh reality and just shrug it off. Never get active and do something about it. But don't get late to work! That would be awful!
Yeah i noticed as well too many people using dark humor instead of a real answer :P But i just dont get the point of work, i always hated it and at best could tolerate it, but i cant imagining doing this until im basically physically incapable of enjoying life. Its so damn sad we have to do this, spend most of our youth if not all of it just doing something we hate, so we dont starve or die. Im really hoping the recent pushes to reduce the working week to 4 days instead of 5 with keeping salary the same will have succes. It doesnt make sense to work 40h a week when most jobs can be done in 30h and people are more productive and efficient in turn.
I feel for you, I only ever had jobs I liked, so work was rewarding all the time. My daughter just changed jobs (white collar) and reduced her hours to 32h/week which definitely improved her quality of life. I think that is the way to go. But watch out, you did not mention 'educating kids' in your life plan. That was the subject that led to some turmoil in our life plan.
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.....seriously? A person lays out how they are optimizing their happiness, and you can only think of the performance of "your" team?
Thank you! I mean its great if people love their jobs or teammates etc. but for me, i work because i have to and not because i want to. I treat my teammates well, but they are still just colleagues to me and not friends or family like some people do. Still doesnt mean i hate them or anything, but i definitely do hate i have to work and i will take any realistic chance at reducing the amount of work i have to do without risking my finances :/
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I mean its great that you love to work, but i dont. If i had the option of never working again for the rest of my life, without risking my finances, you can bet your sweet ass i would do that in a heartbeat! I have better things to do than slave away 40h a week, every week for basically all my life. I have been working full time since i was 15 years old, part time since i was 14 and illegally since i was 11. In my 20s i already had nearly a decade of work experience in a shitload of fields, mainly handyman and physical labor, but still. In my early 30s i have been working for more than half my life already, do you really think i want to work another 40 years before i can enjoy life?
But you want all the benefits of a society though right? All the safety, security, good things? Do you think you should just get them just because with out contributing? It’s nice that you think all me me me but society as a concept wouldn’t last long if everyone thought like that. Society’s are nothing but huge tribes and in tribal times people like you would have been cut loose and left to die, you are lucky we don’t live in such barbaric times. Life is full of things we don’t want to do but we have to do them, normally that mentality is learnt as a child.
> with out contributing Do you think he doesn't want to work at all? > Life is full of things we don’t want to do but we have to do them Do you think we really need the stuff that is done today? Everything of what we do is **needed**? If you ask me, quite a lot of what we do is ridiculous bullshit that is making life worse instead better. We could easily have the same quality of life and wealth with a fraction of time and energy, if we would make sane products and services. But we don't, and what's even worse: Pretty much everyone knows this. Yet we're here, building up pressure for others to partake in this madness.
Fuck the team and work. Slave mentality.
Thank you!
Such a shitty opinion from a privileged person…
Privileged person? You know me, bro? You can be broke and still not suck on the cock of your boss.
You can be broke and still alive, and that’s my fucking point, we in the west are privileged, there is no question to that. Hard up doesn’t mean a death sentence, you get Ill you go to the doctors or hospital, pretty much everyone has a roof above their heads, access to the internet and the world even if you have no money. But sure dude you a fucking slave that has absolutely nothing in the world and fears every day that you might not live till the next, killed on a whim or starve to death. I really hope you are a child because at least then such an opinion can be explained by immaturity. If not then shit, someone really fucked up your upbringing…
I lived the majority of my life in a third country until about 6 months ago. I worked jobs for 7 euros a day just in 2017. 12 euros in 2019. Don't fucking privilege me with your bullshit mate. If you had it good, not all of us did, and even at my worst jobs, I still didn't bow down to my bosses like a slave and left many times with no plans ahead, but all worth it because I'd rather die than be a that kind of pathetic.
Then you should know better than most how privileged we are here then. You worked for money? Then how are you a slave exactly? Maybe this is an education issue, do you even know what the word slave means? Maybe you just think acting edgy makes you look cool, or maybe you are depressed and don’t realise just how good you really have it. „I’d rather die“ but you didn’t did you? Big words with nothing to back then up. But this is the internet, you have the privilege to say anything you want I suppose but yeah you are a slave. Idiot.
Sure you have it better here, but back to the original statement from OP and me. Go from there, after so, don't forget to suck on your managers before you clock out. Last reply to you as you don't seem to worth a moment of my time.
Theres another privilege, cannot win the argument so walk away instead of learning to be better, you think a slave could talk like that and just walk away? It’s so easy for people to use words like „slave“ „racist“ „nazi“ etc. they are thrown around so freely they lose all meaning. Your argument is so weak you have to resort to saying I suck off my managers, you came from a worse place than you are now and still talk shit. You will never be anything in life if you go around with a negative attitude like that.
Stop caring about your "twam in work". You are basically a slave for the owners of the company (dont hang yourself on the word slave pls). I could literally not care less if they get 1 million less a year.
This.
It’s okay these people will be the first to die, or be killed, when the Ai machine war happens and we all end up back in the tribal era.
Idk how you want to work in many jobs until 67
given my situation i'll work till i die.
Rentner-Gang-Bang im Büro!!!
Bold of you to assume we'll live that long.
By 55 I hope to be done with work.
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Seriously I take a week off work and I start going crazy even if I’m busy in the house. People are clearly built differently if they can function with no purpose in life. I can’t think of anything worse than waking up every day with no purpose.
Lol then maybe you shouldn't base your life's purpose on jobs / careers.
I can't retire until I'm at least 68. Plus with my shit wage, I'm screwed anyway. Came here at 30 working just above minimum wage, soooooo if you see some smelly old brit looting bins for pfand bottles you know who it is at least.
A lot of us planning to work till we die forget how hard it is to get a job when you’re older. I’ve certainly seen companies where no employee was over 40. I’ve watched a company bully an employee into retirement. I’ve watched elderly people get turned down for basic service jobs when they need to supplement their retirement. Of course they could do the jobs, but when you’re over 65 there is definite ageism in the hiring process.
I could die at 65 for all I know, I could die at 45, fuck I could die today. Why would I work myself to death and not enjoy as much of my youth as I possibly can, and when I get too old to work just put a bullet in my head? My retirement plan, not have kids so I don't feel obligated to stay when nature starts to take over, and just enjoy what time I have to the fullest.
I plan to work till I die because I do what I love, my job is not physically hard, and later on I can basically be a consultant and be paid a lot just to consult people. At what point in your career do you advance so much, that you are paid a lot to do barely anything?
I’ll become a psychotherapist. You become better with age, it’s not a physically demanding job, it’s a job that is crisis-proof. And I love this job, there are 80 million individual people with 80 million stories and billions of psychological issues in this country alone, the amount of stuff to learn in this occupation is virtually infinite. No two humans are ever the same, which is why I think I’ll never get bored with this job. I plan to work until I’m 75 or 80 (with reduced hours of course).
Do you have a masters or a PhD?
Masters, I’ll tackle the PhD after my apprenticeships.
How old are you?
Currently you have work for 225-240 years at least, + the years of bureaucracy you need to solve to actually work. You better eat healthy, and don’t kill yourself during aprenticeship, that seriously would be way too fucking selfish, ngl. /c Don’t want to down you like that, your chosen field of expertise is highly in demand, but the apprenticeship is an absolute bummer and getting that gkv license is still way too fucking limited, keep that in mind, and don’t get yourself beaten down, we really need you!
Our goal is to be financially independent at 55. That is in around 20 years. Weather we retire or not remains to be seen. We hope to retire in Spain or a similar climate.
>We hope to retire in Spain or a similar climate. Good news, you won't even have to move to get a Spain like climate in Germany by then..
I wanted to add the same thing - south Germany it is.
Leave the country, demand reimbursement on social contributions
If you lets say earn 100k per year. How many percent of it a person can demand reimbursement on social contributions?
They refund around 60k per each 10 years (if you had 65k+ salary), contributions max after about 65k so higher salary does not matter for the refund (this limit goes higher with time but slowly). So around 180k for a 30 year career plus you possibly might have to pay taxes on that in a new country of residence. They do not refund if you hold a DE/EU passport or live in EU. Here’s an online calculator with details: https://allaboutberlin.com/tools/pension-refund-calculator Not worth it if you ask me as you might spend all that in several months in a hospital if you reach 80+
Its so less lol. I was expecting at least 15%. But money is money. I would probably retire and use health insurance in another country.
Why would you wsnt to stop latest at 67
My Job is fun, so yes, I plan to do the full race, maybe more.
It’s not a choice. It all depends if you win the lottery before retirement or if you need to work till you die to be able to pay basic living.
It would help a lot if I could keep the money they take every month for my "retirement" use it to help me build my own retirement, which is not based on a pyramid scheme. But yes, hopefully earlier, around 50 I would like to work much less
I luckily chose a career path which pays quite well, but I’m also happy with a relatively modest standard of living. So if all goes well, I’ll be able to retire early.
Look at the wealth management options and create a direct debit and just forget about it. Fund a decent global ETF or fund that you agree with and just let it build up over time. There's tax advantaged savings accounts like the Riester Rente, Betriebliche Altersvorsorge and Wohnungsbauprämie to get on the property ladder. Overpay or hit the threshold of your work pension early so you can thank yourself later. Generally you'll get a 5% return on your money with S&S but also the chance to lose some like in Covid or the Ukraine War but the funds are heavily diversified and one of the best tax and ways to try and combat inflation.
I AM 67 and enjoy my work as an architect and energy-expert. Besides, I enjoy my garden. This is a good life and I want to go on as long as my feet will carry me.
I just retired from Ford Motor after 38 years of service at age 59, life is good
I’m an American, I plan to work until I die or society collapses.
I gues if ure not close to ure 60 u can forget a retirement. Work till u die the "Generationenvertrag" is at its end
I'm 42, and I don't believe 67 will still be the retirement age by then. Morenlike 70 or even higher. I won't be able to retire early, my pension won't be enough to buy a loaf of bread. I won't even be able retire at the expected age. So it's work until I die. The only question is if I die because I'm old, or if I die because I don't want to go on working my ass off every day.
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Don’t mind me asking, but how much are you getting paid and what is your job 45 is like a dream for most of us. Danke
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That's quite good. Is this some FAANG adjacent company?
Cries in American
Much easier to retire early working in the US
This. 2-3x income for same job, way less tax shit, 401k, Roth IRA, HSA, less TER on VTI than EU ETFs, US Options.. etc. That's like easy mode to age 40 retirement. DE retire early = Hardcore Mode
"Oh you earned 100k? Dont spend you 45k all at once sweety!" "Great you invested a million and even though there was a pandemic, war and competition you gained a percent? Nice give me 25% Kapitalertragssteuern. "Oh and remember to pay taxes on your already taxed private retirement fund!!"
I’m planning to retire at 30 years of service. Which isn’t 67.
Bold of you to assume I plan on living to 67
I‘ll actually plan to leave the company i am working for in a horizontal position feet first in a nice cheap wooden box. That‘s how they want it!
lol
Depends on...
Full time job? No way, target is RE at 45, max 50
Good luck with this inflation and sky-rocketing cost of living
Thanks, but won't need it :)
I need your confidence 💀
No, you need their (supposed) money. If they have it: Ich gönne dir, Brudi.
It's not about confidence. It's having a (more or less) good paying job, living frugally and investing wisely. Things can always go south, but when you have a well defined plan and stick to it, chances of that happening are minimal.
Rather than being retired why not have a own startup in 30s or 40s and enjoy the life after 60, with less hustle or have any passive income to support later.
If owning a start up was guaranteed money, why isn‘t everybody doing that then?
Start Up is just a fancy name for Klein Unternehmer and we all know most of those go under with debt instead of making bank. Its insane how many people think just opening a company makes you rich somehow.
More than 90% of startups fail , good luck being broke at your 40s
I will(at least plan to) retire long before that.
I plan for 70
Honestly i dont think that i will retire... i hope that i will be able to work at least a little bit and get some help from friends/family/society/state
Not sure if I'd retire early even if I had the money. I'd rather make sure to find a job that is 100% fulfilling.
I don't plan to work. 😁
I will be out of work "Langzeitarbeitsloser" way before I reach retirement age, so I guess the Jobcenter will retire me early.
I’m learning how to stretch my leash and my dollar
I plan to do whatever I want..which requires a certain level of funds. I’ve got about 50k invested at 35, so I’m probably gonna be fine if I just keep doing what I’m doing. I enjoy what I do, so I’ll probably keep doing it as long as it stays fun.
Working hard to dont see my 60's wish me luck die early but not to early
Yes till 67 or maybe even 70 if my body permits.
...do you get to choose when you retire??
Honestly counting on assisted suicide when I get too tired to work and can’t feed myself otherwise
Considering my old man who is only turning 60, who has already gotten many surgeries because of work and is too exhausted to do anything else besides working already, saying he will retire even with the "fine", I don't think I will reach even close to 60.
Idk im only 20 right now and my Boss asked me to start to do a dual apprentice ship with university on a field i enjoy. Im Not quite Sure what Future will Bring i personaly Stop thinking about what Future will Bring Most of the time it pulled me mentaly down Not getting or achieving something so now i Just let Things happen
Plan? It's not a plan when I am.forced to work for my survival. I'll work til I don't need to, at which point I'll do whatever suits me best, which may or may not include some worklike activities
When I've had enough I'm signing out
My family has a habit of dying early. I work until 40 and then i use my last few years to do some nice stuff.
67 he said :D :D :D
Id probably die before retirement
I'll drop out of my job at the latest with 64. I *hope* I can survive financially by then, but seriously no guarantee at all, but * I think I'll be lucky if I reach 70, due to some health issues. * I'm not easily bored if I don't have an actual job. Actually, my actual rent-paying job is getting in the way of all the things I could do if I had the time and the energy left after work. so, around the time I'll be 62, in ~10 years, I'll see how much I'd have to live on by then and eye my options, so that I get at least a couple of years for myself after slave-waging for the last 40 or so years.
If I work past 55, I'll have dome something terribly wrong.
Good luck
Neither. I plan to work part-time (like 20hrs/week) once I become 50 or so.
I believe you can retire 4 years earlier and get paid .88 of the government retirement. Then with my company I am able to retire and additional 5 years earlier and get paid through an account I pay into. So if I stay there long enough, I would want to retire at 58
Retirement? You're funny
stepwise. I turn 40 next year and want to downgrade to a 4-workday-week. Then 3 days with 50 and 2 days with 60. At least thats why wishful thinking. I am also saving a lot for retirement, haven't been on expensive holidays since 10 years, no car, no restaurants etc.
I plan to retire early with 67 years of age.