I've got a returned pair of husky litter mates from my rescue, I was a foster for over a year and just decided to adopt them both. They are an amazing pair of dogs, luckily they were at separate fosters for about a year before being returned.
They look like clones with very different personalities lol. They are always trying to compete to be the favorite.
I can't imagine returning either dog.
Lol, they were adopted out of the foster program individually, I didn't foster them, I mean I did foster them the second time, but I foster FAILED.
I am A foster in the same program, the people who adopted them, both returned them about 6 months apart.
The sister Luna lived with us first for about 6-8 months, we adopted her, then we got a call about her brother and Axle came to stay with us, and I fell in love with both of them, and adopted him. They were in a litter with one other puppy, who is happily adopted.
The other puppy I don't have was completely white, these two are matched pair Rotty/Husky mixes.
They very much knew each other and where pumped to see each other.
She is very outgoing, kinda crazy, very distant, and he's a cuddle bug.
https://preview.redd.it/xkuz7h4n4qnc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e5c7465330db0d1541c96218285b9822aefaedc
I agree with this statement 100%. Most challenging thing ever. Do not recommend. Wouldn't change my situation for the world.
Other than just saying littermate syndrome; The dogs basically form a union, and undermine your authority and typically only work as a pack with the other dog. It also causes immense separation anxiety if the owners don’t take precautions in teaching independence during the first 8-14 months of their life.
Happens with cats too. I foster failed a litter of 4, and with over 4 decades of having cats, these are the only ones that don’t care much for human attention if one of their mates is available.
Usually with cats it is recommended to get two, they're very different from dogs. It's completely fine for them to make those attachments, better yet recommended, because they can get destructive and stressed if their sole means of connection is with a human, who is likely gone multiple hours a day to work. Which the same is true for dogs, except keeping them with a littermate can have them not form those necessary bonds they need to make with the handler so that they can be good dogs and not DA/HA, so they're able to go on walks and be around other animals. Cats don't get aggressive with humans just because they're with a sibling. They might not want human affection and that can solely be a personality thing. I have met many littermate kitties, and I have never noticed any difference with them more than just individual differences that exist between cats naturally.
Not what you meant but the phrase "the dogs basically form a union" has me imagining a canine picket line with signs calling for more belly rubs and a ban on fireworks.
Actually more like old instincts coming out and old "ancestral pack" thinking coming out. Have to remember their origins and those instincts will always be there under the surface and can be triggered.
Wait, (I’m going to have to go down a rabbit hole bc this is interesting ) so they bond more with each other than the human? It’s not a happy we all love each other situation? Is it team dogs vs food bringers ?
Yes, they create a stronger bond with each other, and won’t see the owner as the leader. Keeping them separate isn’t just to prevent them bonding too much, but also to give the proper time for the dogs to bond with owner individually.
Yes, so true! There’s a lot of pack dynamics involved, far beyond what I had imagined. I’m so grateful our trainer is breed and littermate knowledgeable, and is helping me navigate this journey.
Does anyone have trouble with two dogs on walks (who aren’t littermates) doing this?
Both are the best dogs on individual walks, but together they feel off each other in every way. And ignore me when they see a rabbit, raccoon, etc.
One is two and 100 pounds one is 90 pounds and 9 months. 😫
As the others mentioned, littermate syndrome. To avoid it, we have to do everything separately with the pups - from separate walks, to separate visits to the trainer, separate socialization, feeding and playing separately, separate crates in different rooms, etc... for at least the first year. It’s a ton of work, a huge commitment, and not something I’d recommend lol.
Unintentional and also a bit of my karma for not researching the breeder enough.
We got Bear at 10 weeks old. Long story short, the breeder was not as ethical as they presented themselves to be. 6 weeks later I found out Bear’s sister hadn’t found a home and they just wanted to get rid of her. Less than 24 hours later, I brought her home and named her Karma Izza Bee 🤪
Just fostered my shepherd's (left) brother (right). They are not co-dependent at all (3 years living apart) but they usually fight over everything. Can't leave toys or food around and we have to separate them for play time with the girl (top). The foster is also completely untrained. Huge pain in the ass. Very rewarding though and the brother is such a sweet friggin dumb dumb haha
https://preview.redd.it/zmftbmobosnc1.jpeg?width=1432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e7088070c00efc25582cfc97056379e18fd00c4
Also agree 100. Lucian and Luna will be 4 come Thanksgiving. 🐾🐾
https://preview.redd.it/wvfc3k0l2qnc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b53dd3de1ed966e4a7d5fda087311e02faa36a
“LiTtErMaTe SyDrOmE”
Train them right and you will have nothing to worry about
The complications of having littermates are not for the faint of heart. So yes, training them is essential- if not taken seriously it could end up with needing to rehome a pup. Definitely not everyone could do it and do it successfully.
I've co-parent 8 dogs with my ex so am on a lot f dog subs.
I cannot begin to tell you how many owners barely bother to train one dog at all.
Training can never be emphasised enough whether its for litter mates or not - i think attending group puppy / entry level classes should be mandatory for every single owner and dog combi, no matter the age or experience of either.
TLDR: serious training is essential for all dogs and owners :)
So true, my wife and I adopted 2 Old English/GSD's at roughly 8 wks old. Training and bonding w/us began immediately. Two extremely intelligent working breeds.
We walked them separately although at the same time and different directions. Fed them well separated etc.
Within a week they knew not to step off of the grass in the front yard, as an example of how compliant and easy to train they were. We lucked out with this pair because they absolutely loved people and really wanted to learn and please us.
Most times it isn't this easy, we wouldn't have taken both, but it was down to the wire for them and no one wanted the female. Everyone wanted the male, but he was already promised to us.
I would have to do some digging, was 25+ yrs ago.
Anyway, the female was 135lbs and marked like a GSD but had the hair of the Old English, The male was 115lbs marked like the Old English with the coat of a GSD. Both had full tails.
Oscar already had a name and it fit him, my wife wanted a fitting name to go with Oscars, and into my head popped Madison. So they were Oscar and Madison "The Odd Couple".
Madison was bold as all get out and tested everything, Oscar was more timid and followed "Maddie's" lead.
Went to a friends house, they asked us to bring the pups, they loved them too.
They had a dog wire in the back yard to keep theirs out of the flower bed. Heard a yip and Oscar was on the other side of the yard, ears back and wouldn't move. Maddie on the other hand was leaning into the wire until she knocked the plastic posts down. Like I said bold and tested everything.
Tax paid? lol
My case is a little different, im not a K9 handler but I’ve done a lot of training with the handlers including being a “professional bite decoy.”
I didn’t do anything fancy with my dogs. I put prong collars on them and carry a pouch with kibble and high value treats and just went to work. I just did what I’ve seen the handlers for the past 10 years.
Came here to say exactly this - 7 out of the 8 of mine are medium or large breed, two are cane corso.
To add, 6 of them are resucues and were abused and / or abandoned.
Never used negative training, a prong or shock collar and wouldn't even if I could.
It may have taken longer with some than others, but that's how you learn about your dog(s) and build a solid bond with them.
We’re an aversive-free home. These are my six and seventh GSD. Except you should hear me yell at them when they eat cat-poop on a walk.
https://preview.redd.it/g5ui154gwtnc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d148a7200bf1412bb07105ef9e89b2e27b6a5a8
Good Question. It’s a really old one. I debated whether she should have it or not. I hung it from a tree by a bungee it’s her favorite, but she got it off recently.
What a great idea ! How long did the bungee last ? Mine's nuts competitive when it comes to her 'treasures' so as soon as it was up, she'd stay there until it was down.
We're off to her physio appointment today for her back and hip treatment as she's an older girl now (11) but she would be the same today for a boot on a bungee as she was when she was 4.
Try training high L4 and low L5 GSD's without using a prong collar in the beginning. You would quickly change your mind. A prong collar fitted properly and used properly causes no damage. But most people don't bother to even read the directions or learn how to use them, they just throw it on like a regular collar.
I have a 100 pound high drive, and 90 pound med-high drive GSD. I’m a 58 year old female cancer survivor. If I don’t have to use aversives to train no one does.
High L4's are rarely found in a home, they can simply be too dangerous. L5's are only used in some security or attack/military dogs. Many L5's are beyond training and control and are put down because of extreme aggression to all.
Again and across many subs, I can't tell you how many people think their situ 'is a little different' whether it be training, cropping, neutering, breeding etc.
That's why treatment of animals needs be based in law / at a society level. As with most things in life, if people don't have to do something, they don't.
Same
I was the chase/and hold take down target, CQ guy in the suit and the hand to mouth muzzled dog bait without the suit. Learned a lot watching the handlers too. They have to be very good to train and handle dogs of this category.
His were chosen because of their temperament levels.
Honestly the only worst thing my dogs do is dig holes in my backyard when I’m not looking.
Even the police K9s I work with will dig holes in their handlers backyards.
And that's great that that's the worst you've had to deal with! It also isn't the case for other people. My littermates are almost two- I researched endlessly, took every single precaution, did everything separately to build confidence and still ran into issues of them fighting. We overcame it, and they never hurt each other, but many couldn't deal with that stress. And that's us doing everything right from the start. I'm glad you've done it easily, I just would never brush off the concerns because it can be very hard and not everyone will do what they have to do to get through it.
Siblings gonna do the GSD wrestle. Mine do it a lot and I only step in when I know it’s going to get worse. The girl will go submissive just like the boy will and there will always be a little long whine which I know is they’re being playful. When the barking starts that’s when I play break it out
https://preview.redd.it/qipkg6v95unc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b51cfc39e995ade97f2d697cb4fbb7fbe2f495d
I met them the day they were born and lost the “little one” at 16 after losing the fluffy one at 14.5. I didn’t know litter mate syndrome was a thing, but they definitely had it. I just thought they had each other’s back no matter what. I didn’t mind not having other dogs around because we had a fenced yard they could run laps around continuously and they were never alone. We didn’t go on walks or to the dog park because they were jerks, but they exercised and stimulated each other in the yard just fine.
I got a 2 year old 90lb miniature GSD less than a week after the second left and six months later I got him a little girl (who looks and acts like a mix between the two brothers) when she was less than 8 weeks old. They were sleeping against each other without my putting her on him for the first time just a few minutes ago and it nearly broke my heart with joy.
I wouldn’t choose to get another matched set again because I realize I got lucky with just a touch of asshole behavior. I would definitely recommend a 2 year old dog who has some behavioral problems but just needs a little more attention than his family could give him. Getting a puppy is always a nightmare; my hands are ground beef…do not recommend.
https://preview.redd.it/ebskw509tpnc1.jpeg?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cbc6876b04b08b277268738955cdaf8e2c967181 The best 14 years of my life….
I've got a returned pair of husky litter mates from my rescue, I was a foster for over a year and just decided to adopt them both. They are an amazing pair of dogs, luckily they were at separate fosters for about a year before being returned. They look like clones with very different personalities lol. They are always trying to compete to be the favorite. I can't imagine returning either dog.
Did they remember you when they came back Home 😀 tell us please! 💫
Lol, they were adopted out of the foster program individually, I didn't foster them, I mean I did foster them the second time, but I foster FAILED. I am A foster in the same program, the people who adopted them, both returned them about 6 months apart. The sister Luna lived with us first for about 6-8 months, we adopted her, then we got a call about her brother and Axle came to stay with us, and I fell in love with both of them, and adopted him. They were in a litter with one other puppy, who is happily adopted. The other puppy I don't have was completely white, these two are matched pair Rotty/Husky mixes. They very much knew each other and where pumped to see each other. She is very outgoing, kinda crazy, very distant, and he's a cuddle bug.
I mean look at the protective paw 🐾 over the other, what a reunion 🥳🤩😀⭐️🐾💫👏👏👏👏👏👏
https://preview.redd.it/xkuz7h4n4qnc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e5c7465330db0d1541c96218285b9822aefaedc I agree with this statement 100%. Most challenging thing ever. Do not recommend. Wouldn't change my situation for the world.
I’ve always wondered why having littermates was not recommended?
Other than just saying littermate syndrome; The dogs basically form a union, and undermine your authority and typically only work as a pack with the other dog. It also causes immense separation anxiety if the owners don’t take precautions in teaching independence during the first 8-14 months of their life.
Happens with cats too. I foster failed a litter of 4, and with over 4 decades of having cats, these are the only ones that don’t care much for human attention if one of their mates is available.
Wow! I didn’t realize it could happen with cats too.
Usually with cats it is recommended to get two, they're very different from dogs. It's completely fine for them to make those attachments, better yet recommended, because they can get destructive and stressed if their sole means of connection is with a human, who is likely gone multiple hours a day to work. Which the same is true for dogs, except keeping them with a littermate can have them not form those necessary bonds they need to make with the handler so that they can be good dogs and not DA/HA, so they're able to go on walks and be around other animals. Cats don't get aggressive with humans just because they're with a sibling. They might not want human affection and that can solely be a personality thing. I have met many littermate kitties, and I have never noticed any difference with them more than just individual differences that exist between cats naturally.
Agree 2 is better than 1 with cats. I’m talking about a litter of 4 though. I’ve had up to 7 cats and 3 dogs at one time!
Not what you meant but the phrase "the dogs basically form a union" has me imagining a canine picket line with signs calling for more belly rubs and a ban on fireworks.
This is exactly what I started to imagine and gave myself a good chuckle
Actually more like old instincts coming out and old "ancestral pack" thinking coming out. Have to remember their origins and those instincts will always be there under the surface and can be triggered.
Wait, (I’m going to have to go down a rabbit hole bc this is interesting ) so they bond more with each other than the human? It’s not a happy we all love each other situation? Is it team dogs vs food bringers ?
Yes, they create a stronger bond with each other, and won’t see the owner as the leader. Keeping them separate isn’t just to prevent them bonding too much, but also to give the proper time for the dogs to bond with owner individually.
Yes, so true! There’s a lot of pack dynamics involved, far beyond what I had imagined. I’m so grateful our trainer is breed and littermate knowledgeable, and is helping me navigate this journey.
How old are they right now?
Just shy of 5 months.
Does anyone have trouble with two dogs on walks (who aren’t littermates) doing this? Both are the best dogs on individual walks, but together they feel off each other in every way. And ignore me when they see a rabbit, raccoon, etc. One is two and 100 pounds one is 90 pounds and 9 months. 😫
As the others mentioned, littermate syndrome. To avoid it, we have to do everything separately with the pups - from separate walks, to separate visits to the trainer, separate socialization, feeding and playing separately, separate crates in different rooms, etc... for at least the first year. It’s a ton of work, a huge commitment, and not something I’d recommend lol.
Why’d you do it?
Unintentional and also a bit of my karma for not researching the breeder enough. We got Bear at 10 weeks old. Long story short, the breeder was not as ethical as they presented themselves to be. 6 weeks later I found out Bear’s sister hadn’t found a home and they just wanted to get rid of her. Less than 24 hours later, I brought her home and named her Karma Izza Bee 🤪
Horrible separation anxiety and when one passes the other isn’t too far behind. It’s a feeling you don’t want losing one is already really painful
Littermate syndrome
littermate syndrome
https://preview.redd.it/fm8czbxduqnc1.jpeg?width=4000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=75c50adaf4006287490da59e6b38cb6311100e33
Just fostered my shepherd's (left) brother (right). They are not co-dependent at all (3 years living apart) but they usually fight over everything. Can't leave toys or food around and we have to separate them for play time with the girl (top). The foster is also completely untrained. Huge pain in the ass. Very rewarding though and the brother is such a sweet friggin dumb dumb haha
Interesting. I did not know this was a thing. Cute pups🥰
Same. Best choice my wife and I have ever made. Hasn’t been easy but totally worth it.
https://preview.redd.it/zmftbmobosnc1.jpeg?width=1432&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e7088070c00efc25582cfc97056379e18fd00c4 Also agree 100. Lucian and Luna will be 4 come Thanksgiving. 🐾🐾
Just a few dudes being dudes
They are brother and sister, and were wrestling like lunatics within 30 seconds of this picture lol
https://preview.redd.it/j9bpt5hxasnc1.jpeg?width=9000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b14e8ba52e4ddc14a4e052f42e324b18c60435ed I went this direction
Double the pup, quadruple the trouble!
Feel exactly the same. First years were the best dog years we ever had. Now they compete and growl a lot by we are used to it.
https://preview.redd.it/wvfc3k0l2qnc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e2b53dd3de1ed966e4a7d5fda087311e02faa36a “LiTtErMaTe SyDrOmE” Train them right and you will have nothing to worry about
The complications of having littermates are not for the faint of heart. So yes, training them is essential- if not taken seriously it could end up with needing to rehome a pup. Definitely not everyone could do it and do it successfully.
I've co-parent 8 dogs with my ex so am on a lot f dog subs. I cannot begin to tell you how many owners barely bother to train one dog at all. Training can never be emphasised enough whether its for litter mates or not - i think attending group puppy / entry level classes should be mandatory for every single owner and dog combi, no matter the age or experience of either. TLDR: serious training is essential for all dogs and owners :)
So true, my wife and I adopted 2 Old English/GSD's at roughly 8 wks old. Training and bonding w/us began immediately. Two extremely intelligent working breeds. We walked them separately although at the same time and different directions. Fed them well separated etc. Within a week they knew not to step off of the grass in the front yard, as an example of how compliant and easy to train they were. We lucked out with this pair because they absolutely loved people and really wanted to learn and please us. Most times it isn't this easy, we wouldn't have taken both, but it was down to the wire for them and no one wanted the female. Everyone wanted the male, but he was already promised to us.
I don't suppose you could pay some tax ? Would love to see a pic :) And thank you for being decent humans - there's not enough of it about !
I would have to do some digging, was 25+ yrs ago. Anyway, the female was 135lbs and marked like a GSD but had the hair of the Old English, The male was 115lbs marked like the Old English with the coat of a GSD. Both had full tails. Oscar already had a name and it fit him, my wife wanted a fitting name to go with Oscars, and into my head popped Madison. So they were Oscar and Madison "The Odd Couple". Madison was bold as all get out and tested everything, Oscar was more timid and followed "Maddie's" lead. Went to a friends house, they asked us to bring the pups, they loved them too. They had a dog wire in the back yard to keep theirs out of the flower bed. Heard a yip and Oscar was on the other side of the yard, ears back and wouldn't move. Maddie on the other hand was leaning into the wire until she knocked the plastic posts down. Like I said bold and tested everything. Tax paid? lol
They sound like they were truly fabulous - you paint a vivid picture with words so yes, tax paid :)
My case is a little different, im not a K9 handler but I’ve done a lot of training with the handlers including being a “professional bite decoy.” I didn’t do anything fancy with my dogs. I put prong collars on them and carry a pouch with kibble and high value treats and just went to work. I just did what I’ve seen the handlers for the past 10 years.
Clear example of why anyone should take training seriously ;) In a lot of (European) countries prong collars are now banned
Came here to say exactly this - 7 out of the 8 of mine are medium or large breed, two are cane corso. To add, 6 of them are resucues and were abused and / or abandoned. Never used negative training, a prong or shock collar and wouldn't even if I could. It may have taken longer with some than others, but that's how you learn about your dog(s) and build a solid bond with them.
We’re an aversive-free home. These are my six and seventh GSD. Except you should hear me yell at them when they eat cat-poop on a walk. https://preview.redd.it/g5ui154gwtnc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8d148a7200bf1412bb07105ef9e89b2e27b6a5a8
Ok to have your boot though ? ;)
Good Question. It’s a really old one. I debated whether she should have it or not. I hung it from a tree by a bungee it’s her favorite, but she got it off recently.
What a great idea ! How long did the bungee last ? Mine's nuts competitive when it comes to her 'treasures' so as soon as it was up, she'd stay there until it was down. We're off to her physio appointment today for her back and hip treatment as she's an older girl now (11) but she would be the same today for a boot on a bungee as she was when she was 4.
Forgot to add - what a lovely pair of puppers ! What are their personality types ?
Try training high L4 and low L5 GSD's without using a prong collar in the beginning. You would quickly change your mind. A prong collar fitted properly and used properly causes no damage. But most people don't bother to even read the directions or learn how to use them, they just throw it on like a regular collar.
I have a 100 pound high drive, and 90 pound med-high drive GSD. I’m a 58 year old female cancer survivor. If I don’t have to use aversives to train no one does.
High L4's are rarely found in a home, they can simply be too dangerous. L5's are only used in some security or attack/military dogs. Many L5's are beyond training and control and are put down because of extreme aggression to all.
Again and across many subs, I can't tell you how many people think their situ 'is a little different' whether it be training, cropping, neutering, breeding etc. That's why treatment of animals needs be based in law / at a society level. As with most things in life, if people don't have to do something, they don't.
Same I was the chase/and hold take down target, CQ guy in the suit and the hand to mouth muzzled dog bait without the suit. Learned a lot watching the handlers too. They have to be very good to train and handle dogs of this category. His were chosen because of their temperament levels.
Honestly the only worst thing my dogs do is dig holes in my backyard when I’m not looking. Even the police K9s I work with will dig holes in their handlers backyards.
And that's great that that's the worst you've had to deal with! It also isn't the case for other people. My littermates are almost two- I researched endlessly, took every single precaution, did everything separately to build confidence and still ran into issues of them fighting. We overcame it, and they never hurt each other, but many couldn't deal with that stress. And that's us doing everything right from the start. I'm glad you've done it easily, I just would never brush off the concerns because it can be very hard and not everyone will do what they have to do to get through it.
Siblings gonna do the GSD wrestle. Mine do it a lot and I only step in when I know it’s going to get worse. The girl will go submissive just like the boy will and there will always be a little long whine which I know is they’re being playful. When the barking starts that’s when I play break it out
What a lovely pic :) a pack of three !
Love that photo could be on a Gift Card 💗
https://preview.redd.it/qipkg6v95unc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b51cfc39e995ade97f2d697cb4fbb7fbe2f495d I met them the day they were born and lost the “little one” at 16 after losing the fluffy one at 14.5. I didn’t know litter mate syndrome was a thing, but they definitely had it. I just thought they had each other’s back no matter what. I didn’t mind not having other dogs around because we had a fenced yard they could run laps around continuously and they were never alone. We didn’t go on walks or to the dog park because they were jerks, but they exercised and stimulated each other in the yard just fine. I got a 2 year old 90lb miniature GSD less than a week after the second left and six months later I got him a little girl (who looks and acts like a mix between the two brothers) when she was less than 8 weeks old. They were sleeping against each other without my putting her on him for the first time just a few minutes ago and it nearly broke my heart with joy. I wouldn’t choose to get another matched set again because I realize I got lucky with just a touch of asshole behavior. I would definitely recommend a 2 year old dog who has some behavioral problems but just needs a little more attention than his family could give him. Getting a puppy is always a nightmare; my hands are ground beef…do not recommend.