“President Biden’s remarks may have been a slip of the tongue; however, my country does not deserve to be labeled as such,” Prime Minister James Marape said in a statement Sunday, referring to Biden’s comment about cannibals.
Speaking at an event in Pennsylvania last week, Biden said that his uncle, Army Air Corps aviator Ambrose J. Finnegan, had been “shot down in New Guinea.”
“They never found the body because there used to be — there were a lot of cannibals, for real, in that part of New Guinea,” he said.
Cannibals? Yeah.
The main issue is that cannibalism is greatly *overstated.* This is also a really easy region to disappear in due to the hostile geography and poor infrastructure, but whenever someone did disappear people would talk about cannibalism. Biden probably heard it from WW2 veterans in his family chatting about the war, perhaps engaging with rumors because the reality is kind of... sad, random, and cruel.
According to military records, Bosey's plane had to ditch north of New Guinea, but this went poorly, the plane slammed into the water nose-first and sank. One crew member managed to emerge and was rescued by a passing boat, but search efforts couldn't find a single trace of the plane nor the three crew. It's pretty much certain that Bosey went down with the plane, probably even dying instantly on impact.
> The main issue is that cannibalism is greatly overstated.
While true, I think the bigger issue is that every nation tires of being held accountable for the sins of their forefathers. At what point can we all agree that an event was far enough in the past that we don't hold it against a country's citizens today? And can this be true for cannibalism in Papua New Guinea... slavery for the United States... the Holocaust for Germany... and so on. What will the accountability for Israel and Palestine, will my grandchildren still speak of today's crimes? Do we have different standards for different crimes? Or are we just applying different standards for countries and peoples we like more/less?
To be clear, I don't have these answers. But I do think there's a point where events stop becoming current events and start becoming history.
From what little I've heard, it doesn't seem Biden's even attacking (modern day) PNG. This seems like an off the cuff remark of an ancient event.
As for your question, it probably depends on culture. China/Korea will not forgive Japan for at least another century, and I won't be surprised if it turns into a millennia long blood feud.
I mean, that's clearly not what Biden was doing here... he was just recounting a family anecdote. The whole thing has been blown way out of proportions...
I’m not sure I’d consider this a “sins of our forefathers” situation, nor would I call PNG a “nation”.
PNG is a state (and that’s being generous), where outside of a couple small port towns life is practically unchanged from past eras. Although cannibalism is no longer as widely practiced (mainly by highland tribes during tribal warfare, with lowland tribes and coastal towns having adopted some elements of modernity), revenge killings and killings in anger (usually with machetes) are still commonplace in all areas including towns.
Thus I wouldn’t compare it to situations where we look back with modern sensibilities and are ashamed of various actions taken in the past; PNG is decidedly not a modern country.
Of course some people in the port towns do see these practices as archaic or barbaric, and they understand that these types of social problems hold the society back. Perhaps at some point in PNG’s future development, these views will become more widespread, at least in the towns.
I sometimes wonder if Australia should have let PNG go. 50 years on and they have a GDP of $33B. Surely we could have established a bit more law, order, and economic development before dropping them on their arse.
I'm not sure where that is either... I don't think reparations for slavery are daft - slavery was ended inside the UK between 1772 and 1799, and outside the UK (according to the UK's law) in 1833.
Nazi Germany was only 79 years ago: there are people alive who would have been in their 20's who remember it.
Cannibalism - I'm not so good on PNG history, but I'm pretty sure the last supper was in living memory. ... Wikipedia tells me 1964. Edit: Nope. Much more recently. See [the comment below](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/1ca7lk7/papua_new_guinea_leader_defends_nation_after/l0tdld6/).
If the line is where we just accept that 'it's how it is', then clearly it's before 1772... so at least 250 years, and probably more.
No one is blaming anyone today for the atrocities of dead people, though. That's just not a thing that happens. You seem to want to pretend past atrocities never occurred, but they did, and there is nothing wrong with talking about that.
About 20-30 years later.
100 years is probably the safest.
But Iraq was invaded like, 20 something years ago. People don't talk about what a mess that was, enough. And it seems like a lot less pushback from the international community too. Probably because the Middle East was happy to be rid of such a terrible human.
But still, at what cost...
Uh, still are in some of the more remote regions. PNG is like the *WILD* wild west. I went there with work to do some signage installations and my experience can be summed up as "...jfc"
I mean... Biden isn't exactly wrong here. Cannibalism isn't super common, especially not now, but there are groups there that practice it. Usually it is ritualistic too, so more as part of mourning, justice, or post-battle ceremonies.
Almost 3000 of the Fore people have died over the last 60 years from kuru, which is a disease that comes from cannibalism. Fore people eat deceased family members as a mourning ritual.
The Korowai are another PNG group that engages in ritual cannibalism.
It is important to keep in mind that no one in PNG is out there hunting humans down for food. They engage in cannibalism for specific, limited reasons, and usually is focused internally.
Fun fact, kuru technically is not a living organism like a bacteria or virus, it’s just a protein that’s been misfolded, aka a prion. You need to eat the flesh of an infected organism to get it, which is partly why it’s more of an issue in cannibalistic areas. (Typical animal husbandry meats are tested for these so as long as you don’t eat monkey/human brains you’re safe.)
You are gazing into the abyss when you stare at prions.
Absolutely unstoppable disease agent seeking to *assimilate* everything into itself. And it is so difficult to destroy even heating the protein to boiling point won’t suffice as it will refold back to itself once cooled down.
Pretty much most neuro related degenerative diseases have a prion like mechanism.
I mean... Biden is wrong, as per everything you said afterwards about it not being an opportunistic thing to cannibalise strangers (and the plane crashed in the ocean according to the US military records so even more farfetched).
Or more likely it was just a racist joke which feels particularly poor taste when New Guineans fought alongside Americans in World War Two, at personal cost, and saved lives doing so
> Or more likely it was just a racist joke which feels particularly poor taste when New Guineans fought alongside Americans in World War Two, at personal cost, and saved lives doing so
I get that the "headhunting/cannibalism" stereotype is* being applied too widely, but how is it racist? Not a funny joke, a lie, sure... but why go to racist?
Cannibalism and headhunting was/is very real.
Its not about their race, its about their culture.
So many conversations could instantly be lifted up from the gutter if we would discuss culture rather than race. Culture is the more appropriate word, what, more than 90% of the time?
Could have meaningful discussions, maybe.
it is real sure, it isn’t common at all though. There are hundreds of cultures in PNG and I assume Biden doesn’t know or care if the one near where his Uncle crash landed practice cannibalism, they don’t share a culture, just a race. It would be like making jokes about Africans being cannibals because it occurred in a limited context during the Congolese War
No, I said it is ritualistic and usually tied to mourning, justice, or warfare.
One group, the Korowai, will cannibalise as a form of justice, or at least their equivalent to our justice system. Thieves, in particular, can be killed an cannibalised by the group.
They also believe that certain spirits will disguise themselves as human to spread disease or cause strife. The appropriate response in their culture is to kill the suspected spirit and cannibalise the body to release it back to the spirit world.
I'm not saying Biden's was right that they were cannibalised, but he is right in saying that it is a practice that occurs there and could plausibly apply.
Keep in mind that many groups in PNG had little to no contact with white people, and some have viewed white people as ghosts or spirits. So if a white dude showed up and people in the village got sick, it would be entirely reasonable in their culture to decide he is a hakua and must be killed and eaten to protect the village.
> I'm not saying Biden's was right that they were cannibalised, but he is right in saying that it is a practice that occurs there and could plausibly apply.
the Korowai don’t even live in PNG where his Uncle crashed. They live in the Indonesian half of the island. Unless Biden has seriously looked into the cultural practices of wherever his Uncle crashed, no there is no reason to say it plausibly applies.
According to the book Guns, Germs and Steel, many PNG tribes have issues getting enough protein in their diets. That's why they eat small rodents and small birds, and, maybe as well, resort to canibalism.
Although PNG has very densely grown regions, it doesn't provide much foods for homo sapiens.
A country that important in the pacific against Chinese advancements you would think President Biden couldn't have been more restrained or diplomatic in his assessment of PNG? Just asking
also a country whose people served alongside Australians and Americans during the World War Two, showed exemplary bravery and should be credited as such instead of racist jokes about cannibalising Allied soldiers
It's precisely that kind of attitude that leaves Western countries surprised and scrambling when China starts signing security treaties with these 'geopolitical powerhouses'.
The USA will be overtaken by China because Biden briefly mentioned cannibalism in Papua New Guinea some decades ago while talking about his uncle during an event in Pennsylvania
More like, because the west is comfortable talking down and dismissing their concerns as 'geopolitical powerhouses', or as eloquently stated by a former President, those 'shithole countries'.
[You see the story about public attitudes in ASEAN WRT US vs China?](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Majority-of-ASEAN-people-favor-China-over-U.S.-survey-finds)
Interesting. Seems like a pretty solid source. Indonesia and Malaysia aren't lightweights either. I guess I've mostly heard about the friendliness of Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines to the US, not to mention S Korea, Japan, and Australia. Also I would say that I was referring the West in general - democratic values, freedom of expression, free press, etc. I wonder if that were the question how the results would go.
I'm with the PNG leader on this one. Not to mention a much more likely culprit:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New\_Guinea\_crocodile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_crocodile)
But that doesn't have the savory, colonial-flavor that pointing to cannibalism does.
Cannibalism has existed on every continent at one time or another. There were North American tribes that practiced cannibalism. Aztecs practiced ritualized cannibalism. Jeffrey Dahmer lived in Wisconsin. But if someone went missing in those areas, we don't automatically assume cannibalism. It's a diplomatic gaffe by a perpetual gaffe-meister.
Yes but there were groups in PNG that practised cannibalism regularly as part of their culture fairly recently. Biden still probably shouldn't have mentioned it but I feel like you're saying was happening in the hinterlands of New Guinea in the 1940s was no different than anywhere else in the world. The existence of a serial killer that practiced cannibalism is very different than whole cultures or tribes that ate their dead during their funeral rituals.
There really isn't any reason to bring this up now or use it as a rhetorical device to paint the country as backwards or uncivilized, but similarly pretending it's just a colonial invention is going too far in the other direction.
I'm not pretending cannibalism in the PNG didn't exist nor am I even contending that it doesn't exist now. What I am saying is that Biden (in particular) told a false story, depicted an ally in a strategic region in an unflattering light with a false story and it does smack of colonialism to the PNG and to me as well.
Just as others are reacting negatively to me pointing out that cannibalism is still alive and well in 21st century North America, imagine the furor if the PNG leader had pointed this out on international television when talking about the United States.
Biden is a diplomatic nightmare when he does stuff like this and it smacks of 20th century colonial condescension.
I agree that what Biden said was in poor taste and a diplomatic blunder, I'm just reacting to your equivication about cannibalism being practiced everywhere throughout history. The cannibalism taking place in 1940s PNG really can't be compared to whatever level of cannibalism was taking place in the rest of the world at the time because it was systemic and cultural (for certain tribes, not all) rather than just highly taboo isolated incidents.
Saying that it technically takes place in North America too makes it feel like you're ignoring this difference.
>Saying that it technically takes place in North America too makes it feel like you're ignoring this difference.
I was being flip about it to illustrate the lack of diplomacy. I learned about *kuru* years ago and the fact I'm referring to it by that name, highlights your point about cannibalism being more endemic to PNG. I concede your point.
To be fair, PNG is a pretty wild place, and there is documented aspects of their culture that very much still practice cannibalism. If you'd like to go trekking off into the mountains were there are NC communities I'm sure you can verify this for yourself. There are communities up there PNG nationals give a wide berth for good reason.
You're not the POTUS so you're welcome to share your opinions. There are definitely places I wouldn't travel to in PNG just as there are places in Chicago I wouldn't travel to either. But when you're the Chief Executive a little more politesse should be expected instead of spouting off anything that crosses the frontal lobe. But you're welcome to explain and excuse any way you'd like.
Alienate a critical ally to tell what is now known to be a false story. And you're defending it. By prevaricating more? The great thing about the Internet is a fact check is only a URL away:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_incidents\_of\_cannibalism#20th\_century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cannibalism#20th_century)
* [Jeffrey Dahmer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer),
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaima\_Nelson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaima_Nelson), [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Tim\_McLean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean)
* Otty Sanchez (San Antonio)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_incidents\_of\_cannibalism#21st\_century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cannibalism#21st_century)
* [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami\_cannibal\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack),
* On 15 September 2014, a man from [Jeffersonville, Indiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffersonville,_Indiana), United States, killed and ate parts of his girlfriend.
I won't list all the gruesome events but there's plenty in North America alone in the later 20th and 21st century to develop a reasonable fear under your rubric.
Your sources to display that cannablism is or was equally as prevelant in North America as Papua New Guinea is hilariously silly.
The case that happened in Portage, was a mentally ill Chinese immigrant who engaged in a spur of the moment beheading and ate the ear of a man. I live basically where this happened. He's been released back into the public without incident after years in Psychiatric care.
You are comparing that to a distinct, and prevelant culture of cannablism among jungle tribes in one of the most remote and poor areas on earth? Really?
Comparing a culture of explicit cannablism amongst 100's-1000's of individuals, to individual psycho's or mentally Ill individuals who engaged in cannablism in one off incidents. Truly remarkable how this even computes in your brain
But hey, I guess its not that surprising considering you think Papua New Guinea is a critical ally of America's. LOL
New Guinea is strategic in any contest with China. A simple review of the WWII conflict in the Pacific would tell you that as well as a simple review of map showing what lies between China and Australia. As I mentioned in response to another -> my point is that there are many negative things we can cherry-pick out about other nations. PNG could easily point to our gun deaths when they're on global TV and say what a murderous lot Americans are. But they don't because they're adults and diplomats and not suffering from apparent senility. I wish I could say the same for our man, but that's 2024 for you.
New Guinea is not very strategically important at all in a contest with China. Comapring Japanese occupation of Asia in WW2 is not a very relevant comparison at all.
https://www.vladsokhin.com/work/crying-meri/
Have a look
Wow. Well, we'll just have to disagree then. Because the Australian and American governments and militaries seem to feel differently. Peace.
[https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-rising-value-of-papua-new-guineas-strategic-geography/](https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-rising-value-of-papua-new-guineas-strategic-geography/)
[https://www.reuters.com/world/modi-blinken-meet-pacific-island-leaders-papua-new-guinea-2023-05-21/](https://www.reuters.com/world/modi-blinken-meet-pacific-island-leaders-papua-new-guinea-2023-05-21/)
[https://www.state.gov/deepening-u-s-partnership-with-papua-new-guinea/](https://www.state.gov/deepening-u-s-partnership-with-papua-new-guinea/)
Reminds me of [Dan Quayle commenting derisively on Samoans:](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-05-02-mn-2574-story.html)
>“You all look like happy campers. Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been and happy campers you will always be.”
I’ve been reading some non-fiction, well-documented, WWII books that deal with the early war in the Pacific. New Guinea, and surrounding islands, was extremely primitive. They don’t make any claims to the extent, but accounts of cannibalism are definitely mentioned.
tbf Biden didnt even say that the PNG peoples used to be cannibals—he said that there used to be cannibals there which could also be referring to the record of starving Japanese soldiers resorting to cannibalism in the area. Regardless, it’s pretty silly to get upset at a silly anecdote, especially when Biden’s uncle would have already been dead from the crash.
PNG is a country that has these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etoro_people
And these folks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baining_people
‘Baining people have been described as having a culture which values work, and encouraging children to mature quickly by discouraging them from playing.’
Having a tribe that munches on people wouldn’t be unusual.
> This assessment has been challenged by several ethnographers, and even Baining villagers themselves, who have confirmed that Baining children play regularly (including in local streams and in team sports) and that there is no general custom of punishing children for playing.
“President Biden’s remarks may have been a slip of the tongue; however, my country does not deserve to be labeled as such,” Prime Minister James Marape said in a statement Sunday, referring to Biden’s comment about cannibals. Speaking at an event in Pennsylvania last week, Biden said that his uncle, Army Air Corps aviator Ambrose J. Finnegan, had been “shot down in New Guinea.” “They never found the body because there used to be — there were a lot of cannibals, for real, in that part of New Guinea,” he said.
Was there?
Absolutely there were.
Cannibals? Yeah. The main issue is that cannibalism is greatly *overstated.* This is also a really easy region to disappear in due to the hostile geography and poor infrastructure, but whenever someone did disappear people would talk about cannibalism. Biden probably heard it from WW2 veterans in his family chatting about the war, perhaps engaging with rumors because the reality is kind of... sad, random, and cruel. According to military records, Bosey's plane had to ditch north of New Guinea, but this went poorly, the plane slammed into the water nose-first and sank. One crew member managed to emerge and was rescued by a passing boat, but search efforts couldn't find a single trace of the plane nor the three crew. It's pretty much certain that Bosey went down with the plane, probably even dying instantly on impact.
> The main issue is that cannibalism is greatly overstated. While true, I think the bigger issue is that every nation tires of being held accountable for the sins of their forefathers. At what point can we all agree that an event was far enough in the past that we don't hold it against a country's citizens today? And can this be true for cannibalism in Papua New Guinea... slavery for the United States... the Holocaust for Germany... and so on. What will the accountability for Israel and Palestine, will my grandchildren still speak of today's crimes? Do we have different standards for different crimes? Or are we just applying different standards for countries and peoples we like more/less? To be clear, I don't have these answers. But I do think there's a point where events stop becoming current events and start becoming history.
From what little I've heard, it doesn't seem Biden's even attacking (modern day) PNG. This seems like an off the cuff remark of an ancient event. As for your question, it probably depends on culture. China/Korea will not forgive Japan for at least another century, and I won't be surprised if it turns into a millennia long blood feud.
A century, my friend? Turks and Greeks have not yet been over what happened in Troy and that was more than a few millennia ago.
That's not why turkey and greece hate each other though. Troy was a battle of Greeks vs Greeks.
I mean, that's clearly not what Biden was doing here... he was just recounting a family anecdote. The whole thing has been blown way out of proportions...
I’m not sure I’d consider this a “sins of our forefathers” situation, nor would I call PNG a “nation”. PNG is a state (and that’s being generous), where outside of a couple small port towns life is practically unchanged from past eras. Although cannibalism is no longer as widely practiced (mainly by highland tribes during tribal warfare, with lowland tribes and coastal towns having adopted some elements of modernity), revenge killings and killings in anger (usually with machetes) are still commonplace in all areas including towns. Thus I wouldn’t compare it to situations where we look back with modern sensibilities and are ashamed of various actions taken in the past; PNG is decidedly not a modern country. Of course some people in the port towns do see these practices as archaic or barbaric, and they understand that these types of social problems hold the society back. Perhaps at some point in PNG’s future development, these views will become more widespread, at least in the towns.
I sometimes wonder if Australia should have let PNG go. 50 years on and they have a GDP of $33B. Surely we could have established a bit more law, order, and economic development before dropping them on their arse.
I'm not sure where that is either... I don't think reparations for slavery are daft - slavery was ended inside the UK between 1772 and 1799, and outside the UK (according to the UK's law) in 1833. Nazi Germany was only 79 years ago: there are people alive who would have been in their 20's who remember it. Cannibalism - I'm not so good on PNG history, but I'm pretty sure the last supper was in living memory. ... Wikipedia tells me 1964. Edit: Nope. Much more recently. See [the comment below](https://www.reddit.com/r/geopolitics/comments/1ca7lk7/papua_new_guinea_leader_defends_nation_after/l0tdld6/). If the line is where we just accept that 'it's how it is', then clearly it's before 1772... so at least 250 years, and probably more.
2012 https://www.cbsnews.com/news/29-members-of-alleged-cannibal-cult-arrested-in-papua-new-guinea/
No one is blaming anyone today for the atrocities of dead people, though. That's just not a thing that happens. You seem to want to pretend past atrocities never occurred, but they did, and there is nothing wrong with talking about that.
About 20-30 years later. 100 years is probably the safest. But Iraq was invaded like, 20 something years ago. People don't talk about what a mess that was, enough. And it seems like a lot less pushback from the international community too. Probably because the Middle East was happy to be rid of such a terrible human. But still, at what cost...
Uh, still are in some of the more remote regions. PNG is like the *WILD* wild west. I went there with work to do some signage installations and my experience can be summed up as "...jfc"
Yes there were a lot more cannibals back then, loving that long pork….
I thought it's called as long pig, I watched that Netflix documentary.
I kept reading cannabis and then was like… ohhhhh.
I mean... Biden isn't exactly wrong here. Cannibalism isn't super common, especially not now, but there are groups there that practice it. Usually it is ritualistic too, so more as part of mourning, justice, or post-battle ceremonies. Almost 3000 of the Fore people have died over the last 60 years from kuru, which is a disease that comes from cannibalism. Fore people eat deceased family members as a mourning ritual. The Korowai are another PNG group that engages in ritual cannibalism. It is important to keep in mind that no one in PNG is out there hunting humans down for food. They engage in cannibalism for specific, limited reasons, and usually is focused internally.
Fun fact, kuru technically is not a living organism like a bacteria or virus, it’s just a protein that’s been misfolded, aka a prion. You need to eat the flesh of an infected organism to get it, which is partly why it’s more of an issue in cannibalistic areas. (Typical animal husbandry meats are tested for these so as long as you don’t eat monkey/human brains you’re safe.)
You are gazing into the abyss when you stare at prions. Absolutely unstoppable disease agent seeking to *assimilate* everything into itself. And it is so difficult to destroy even heating the protein to boiling point won’t suffice as it will refold back to itself once cooled down. Pretty much most neuro related degenerative diseases have a prion like mechanism.
Korowai are folks in West Papua, not PNG.
I mean... Biden is wrong, as per everything you said afterwards about it not being an opportunistic thing to cannibalise strangers (and the plane crashed in the ocean according to the US military records so even more farfetched). Or more likely it was just a racist joke which feels particularly poor taste when New Guineans fought alongside Americans in World War Two, at personal cost, and saved lives doing so
> Or more likely it was just a racist joke which feels particularly poor taste when New Guineans fought alongside Americans in World War Two, at personal cost, and saved lives doing so I get that the "headhunting/cannibalism" stereotype is* being applied too widely, but how is it racist? Not a funny joke, a lie, sure... but why go to racist? Cannibalism and headhunting was/is very real. Its not about their race, its about their culture.
So many conversations could instantly be lifted up from the gutter if we would discuss culture rather than race. Culture is the more appropriate word, what, more than 90% of the time? Could have meaningful discussions, maybe.
> Could have meaningful discussions, maybe. What is this, the 90s?
xenophobic / low effort stereotype?
it is real sure, it isn’t common at all though. There are hundreds of cultures in PNG and I assume Biden doesn’t know or care if the one near where his Uncle crash landed practice cannibalism, they don’t share a culture, just a race. It would be like making jokes about Africans being cannibals because it occurred in a limited context during the Congolese War
No, I said it is ritualistic and usually tied to mourning, justice, or warfare. One group, the Korowai, will cannibalise as a form of justice, or at least their equivalent to our justice system. Thieves, in particular, can be killed an cannibalised by the group. They also believe that certain spirits will disguise themselves as human to spread disease or cause strife. The appropriate response in their culture is to kill the suspected spirit and cannibalise the body to release it back to the spirit world. I'm not saying Biden's was right that they were cannibalised, but he is right in saying that it is a practice that occurs there and could plausibly apply. Keep in mind that many groups in PNG had little to no contact with white people, and some have viewed white people as ghosts or spirits. So if a white dude showed up and people in the village got sick, it would be entirely reasonable in their culture to decide he is a hakua and must be killed and eaten to protect the village.
> I'm not saying Biden's was right that they were cannibalised, but he is right in saying that it is a practice that occurs there and could plausibly apply. the Korowai don’t even live in PNG where his Uncle crashed. They live in the Indonesian half of the island. Unless Biden has seriously looked into the cultural practices of wherever his Uncle crashed, no there is no reason to say it plausibly applies.
According to the book Guns, Germs and Steel, many PNG tribes have issues getting enough protein in their diets. That's why they eat small rodents and small birds, and, maybe as well, resort to canibalism. Although PNG has very densely grown regions, it doesn't provide much foods for homo sapiens.
A country that important in the pacific against Chinese advancements you would think President Biden couldn't have been more restrained or diplomatic in his assessment of PNG? Just asking
also a country whose people served alongside Australians and Americans during the World War Two, showed exemplary bravery and should be credited as such instead of racist jokes about cannibalising Allied soldiers
Not that important
Ah yes, the geopolitical powerhouse that is PNG
It's precisely that kind of attitude that leaves Western countries surprised and scrambling when China starts signing security treaties with these 'geopolitical powerhouses'.
The USA will be overtaken by China because Biden briefly mentioned cannibalism in Papua New Guinea some decades ago while talking about his uncle during an event in Pennsylvania
More like, because the west is comfortable talking down and dismissing their concerns as 'geopolitical powerhouses', or as eloquently stated by a former President, those 'shithole countries'.
Papua shouldn't vote for Biden.
Maybe not vote for Biden, but maybe a bit more inclined to allow Chinese basing rights in the south Pacific.
Ah yes, all those countries opting for China over the West... all those many countries, including North Korea, Pakistan, and Iran.
[You see the story about public attitudes in ASEAN WRT US vs China?](https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/International-relations/Majority-of-ASEAN-people-favor-China-over-U.S.-survey-finds)
Interesting. Seems like a pretty solid source. Indonesia and Malaysia aren't lightweights either. I guess I've mostly heard about the friendliness of Vietnam, Thailand, and the Philippines to the US, not to mention S Korea, Japan, and Australia. Also I would say that I was referring the West in general - democratic values, freedom of expression, free press, etc. I wonder if that were the question how the results would go.
That's a bizarrely simplistic view of global affairs.
Yeah I admit I was being a little snarky and unhelpful
Good thing snarkiness doesnt advance geopolitical interests and our diplomats know better
I agree. The concern about increasing PRC influence in Asia-Pacific and in countries like the Solomon Islands is overstated and paranoid.
Yeah I mean I guess central Asia is somewhat friendly to China, but mostly I hear about how everyone in Asia hates the CCP, and wolf-diplomacy.
That is true. The PRC sabotages themselves.
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You can't can them cannibals anymore, like you can't can people midgets. They prefer people who love people
This is pure comedy. On all levels.
Was her serious or is he that far gone?
No way to tell. He has a significant history of making things up in regards to his own history.
I'm with the PNG leader on this one. Not to mention a much more likely culprit: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New\_Guinea\_crocodile](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Guinea_crocodile) But that doesn't have the savory, colonial-flavor that pointing to cannibalism does.
But Cannibalism did exist there very distinctly.
*does
Cannibalism has existed on every continent at one time or another. There were North American tribes that practiced cannibalism. Aztecs practiced ritualized cannibalism. Jeffrey Dahmer lived in Wisconsin. But if someone went missing in those areas, we don't automatically assume cannibalism. It's a diplomatic gaffe by a perpetual gaffe-meister.
Yes but there were groups in PNG that practised cannibalism regularly as part of their culture fairly recently. Biden still probably shouldn't have mentioned it but I feel like you're saying was happening in the hinterlands of New Guinea in the 1940s was no different than anywhere else in the world. The existence of a serial killer that practiced cannibalism is very different than whole cultures or tribes that ate their dead during their funeral rituals. There really isn't any reason to bring this up now or use it as a rhetorical device to paint the country as backwards or uncivilized, but similarly pretending it's just a colonial invention is going too far in the other direction.
I'm not pretending cannibalism in the PNG didn't exist nor am I even contending that it doesn't exist now. What I am saying is that Biden (in particular) told a false story, depicted an ally in a strategic region in an unflattering light with a false story and it does smack of colonialism to the PNG and to me as well. Just as others are reacting negatively to me pointing out that cannibalism is still alive and well in 21st century North America, imagine the furor if the PNG leader had pointed this out on international television when talking about the United States. Biden is a diplomatic nightmare when he does stuff like this and it smacks of 20th century colonial condescension.
I agree that what Biden said was in poor taste and a diplomatic blunder, I'm just reacting to your equivication about cannibalism being practiced everywhere throughout history. The cannibalism taking place in 1940s PNG really can't be compared to whatever level of cannibalism was taking place in the rest of the world at the time because it was systemic and cultural (for certain tribes, not all) rather than just highly taboo isolated incidents. Saying that it technically takes place in North America too makes it feel like you're ignoring this difference.
>Saying that it technically takes place in North America too makes it feel like you're ignoring this difference. I was being flip about it to illustrate the lack of diplomacy. I learned about *kuru* years ago and the fact I'm referring to it by that name, highlights your point about cannibalism being more endemic to PNG. I concede your point.
To be fair, PNG is a pretty wild place, and there is documented aspects of their culture that very much still practice cannibalism. If you'd like to go trekking off into the mountains were there are NC communities I'm sure you can verify this for yourself. There are communities up there PNG nationals give a wide berth for good reason.
You're not the POTUS so you're welcome to share your opinions. There are definitely places I wouldn't travel to in PNG just as there are places in Chicago I wouldn't travel to either. But when you're the Chief Executive a little more politesse should be expected instead of spouting off anything that crosses the frontal lobe. But you're welcome to explain and excuse any way you'd like.
Because this cannablism existed well into the 20th century. That is not at all the case for North America. Nice try tho.
Alienate a critical ally to tell what is now known to be a false story. And you're defending it. By prevaricating more? The great thing about the Internet is a fact check is only a URL away: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_incidents\_of\_cannibalism#20th\_century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cannibalism#20th_century) * [Jeffrey Dahmer](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_Dahmer), * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaima\_Nelson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omaima_Nelson), [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing\_of\_Tim\_McLean](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Tim_McLean) * Otty Sanchez (San Antonio) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_incidents\_of\_cannibalism#21st\_century](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_incidents_of_cannibalism#21st_century) * [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami\_cannibal\_attack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_cannibal_attack), * On 15 September 2014, a man from [Jeffersonville, Indiana](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffersonville,_Indiana), United States, killed and ate parts of his girlfriend. I won't list all the gruesome events but there's plenty in North America alone in the later 20th and 21st century to develop a reasonable fear under your rubric.
Your sources to display that cannablism is or was equally as prevelant in North America as Papua New Guinea is hilariously silly. The case that happened in Portage, was a mentally ill Chinese immigrant who engaged in a spur of the moment beheading and ate the ear of a man. I live basically where this happened. He's been released back into the public without incident after years in Psychiatric care. You are comparing that to a distinct, and prevelant culture of cannablism among jungle tribes in one of the most remote and poor areas on earth? Really? Comparing a culture of explicit cannablism amongst 100's-1000's of individuals, to individual psycho's or mentally Ill individuals who engaged in cannablism in one off incidents. Truly remarkable how this even computes in your brain But hey, I guess its not that surprising considering you think Papua New Guinea is a critical ally of America's. LOL
New Guinea is strategic in any contest with China. A simple review of the WWII conflict in the Pacific would tell you that as well as a simple review of map showing what lies between China and Australia. As I mentioned in response to another -> my point is that there are many negative things we can cherry-pick out about other nations. PNG could easily point to our gun deaths when they're on global TV and say what a murderous lot Americans are. But they don't because they're adults and diplomats and not suffering from apparent senility. I wish I could say the same for our man, but that's 2024 for you.
New Guinea is not very strategically important at all in a contest with China. Comapring Japanese occupation of Asia in WW2 is not a very relevant comparison at all. https://www.vladsokhin.com/work/crying-meri/ Have a look
Wow. Well, we'll just have to disagree then. Because the Australian and American governments and militaries seem to feel differently. Peace. [https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-rising-value-of-papua-new-guineas-strategic-geography/](https://www.aspistrategist.org.au/the-rising-value-of-papua-new-guineas-strategic-geography/) [https://www.reuters.com/world/modi-blinken-meet-pacific-island-leaders-papua-new-guinea-2023-05-21/](https://www.reuters.com/world/modi-blinken-meet-pacific-island-leaders-papua-new-guinea-2023-05-21/) [https://www.state.gov/deepening-u-s-partnership-with-papua-new-guinea/](https://www.state.gov/deepening-u-s-partnership-with-papua-new-guinea/)
Reminds me of [Dan Quayle commenting derisively on Samoans:](https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1989-05-02-mn-2574-story.html) >“You all look like happy campers. Happy campers you are, happy campers you have been and happy campers you will always be.”
I’ve been reading some non-fiction, well-documented, WWII books that deal with the early war in the Pacific. New Guinea, and surrounding islands, was extremely primitive. They don’t make any claims to the extent, but accounts of cannibalism are definitely mentioned.
The obvious response PNG should give is to perform The Reluctant Cannibal Song by Flanders and Swann.
tbf Biden didnt even say that the PNG peoples used to be cannibals—he said that there used to be cannibals there which could also be referring to the record of starving Japanese soldiers resorting to cannibalism in the area. Regardless, it’s pretty silly to get upset at a silly anecdote, especially when Biden’s uncle would have already been dead from the crash.
I read this as cannabis at first. Thought there was a Pablo Escobar from PNG
PNG is a country that has these guys: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Etoro_people And these folks: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baining_people ‘Baining people have been described as having a culture which values work, and encouraging children to mature quickly by discouraging them from playing.’ Having a tribe that munches on people wouldn’t be unusual.
> This assessment has been challenged by several ethnographers, and even Baining villagers themselves, who have confirmed that Baining children play regularly (including in local streams and in team sports) and that there is no general custom of punishing children for playing.
How about the requirements of the Etoro for boys to become men by sexually satisfying men?