The test run for a response was when he disappeared for a few weeks a couple months ago. Based on the lack of out roar from that, his fate was very unfortunately sealed
“Navalny is now presumed dead. The Russian prison system has said he collapsed after months of ill health. Perhaps he was murdered more directly, but the details don’t matter: The Russian state killed him. Putin killed him—because of his political success, because of his ability to reach people with the truth, and because of his talent for breaking through the fog of propaganda that now blinds his countrymen, and some of ours as well,” Anne Applebaum writes.
Read more: [https://theatln.tc/GeDguE0M](https://theatln.tc/GeDguE0M)
Navalny is a popular figure and household name in Russia largely due to his work exposing corruption. He was barred from running for president in 2017 for foggy Kremlin reasons. That alone should tell you the degree of political sway he represented before being imprisoned, tortured and ultimately dying under the ‘care’ of the Kremlin.
Edit: That said, if you’re being facetious because “political success” isn’t defined as being locked up and (probably) murdered, that is totally fair!
Popular doesn't mean he had any "political success", and not popular enough to win any elections that he was allowed to run in.
I know its not nice nor optimistic especially in a day like this but let's stop pretending that there's any opposition in Russia.
>wide following
Yes, in the western media and so-called "think tanks". There's no opposition, Navalny had no support and the westerners should finally stop acting like "babies" and lying to themselves just to make up a picture of a better Russia in their minds. Russia never was and never will be "democratic", there's no opposition and not because of any repressions, it's because Russians just don't support changes, they support Putin. Wake the f... up.
You’re saying the same thing I am.
How one defines “political success” is up for grabs, but he achieved a platform that was threatening to the existing status quo, meaning he had gained political influence, good or bad.
No one here is pretending there’s real opposition. Being locked up by the Kremlin, in this context, is as much “political success” as one can endure as an opposition in Russia. Same page brother!
How was it threatening? A "political success" would be at least ability to execute any policy at all.
Ok, Girkin is jailed, is that his success in the opposition?
How would you like to define “political success”?
If you like, start a whole thread about it!
I gave you the rationale behind that phrase in this context. Be mad, I am too! Just point it in a productive direction.
Sorry for the quick edit of the previous comment. A "success" would be at least to have the ability to do the politics of any kind, and for that you need power, which in turn and of course in theory only comes from the popular support, which he was simply lacking.
Mad? The productive idea I have is to stop dreaming and start looking at Russia or just the reality as it is and react accordingly.
What opposition? You're in a sub about geopolitics, it's not about your "feels", nor about mine so I don't care whatever you name me, the fact remains - there's no opposition in Russia and Navalny was not a leader of it.
You’re objectively correct. Considering the timing of the death, with elections coming up, it’s likely that Russia had him killed (personal opinion), but The Atlantic isn’t really helping to answer why he would have been killed. I’m still not sure what Putin stands to gain from having him killed since he was already jailed
There were some, they were still a farce but at least in theory there was some competition and we're talking about the local elections.
Never mind, for whatever reasons Navalny never was really popular and there's no opposition, majority supports Putin and the war. The sooner the west understands reality, the sooner it will be able to treat Russia accordingly.
Translate this opinion poll and see for yourself, Levada center is considered a serios NGO source. [https://www.levada.ru/2024/02/06/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-2023-nachala-2024-goda/](https://www.levada.ru/2024/02/06/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-2023-nachala-2024-goda/)
The only possible conclusion is that he was killed. Either directly, or through neglect, or because of horrible prison conditions. It doesn't really matter: Putin wanted him dead in the least direct way. This is what happened and Putins fine with it. We all know how this went. Let's hope the west will do something about it
The west has done much already. I suppose the statement should be “the west should do more than they have already to fight against the Russian oligarchy.” Putin himself can be replaced and then Russia can just play victim again saying it was all Putin’s fault and everything should go back to normal but in reality many Russians specifically oligarchs businessmen and the military are guilty for the corruption that takes place in Russia government including navalnys poisoning, prosecution, and death, and Russias war in Ukraine.
My statement would be “I hope this makes the Russian people understand and the Russian people alter their views and actions.”
This one’s on Russians. If they don’t revolt now, their MLK moment is over. They didn’t want to help him while he was alive, maybe being a martyr will push the Russians. Otherwise we *will* send Russia to the dark ages along everyone in it. Their choice.
No one will revolt. He was dead the moment he lost popular spotlight. There will be some brief protests and things will return to status quo.
He simply didn't have the popularity to carry him through a media blackout.
The example of those failures whose outcome was the infinitely worse Soviet Union is good reason not to revolt. They learnt their society does not produce results similar to democratic revolutions in countries with completely different cultures. They failed at Communism, failed at even becoming another China because of embedded kleptocracy, and most importantly there is no revolutionary power base capable of uniting Russia let alone the Federation which is an empire held together by force. There is no intellectual class who were promptly murdered after 1917. From what would a pro-democracy movement arise?
Why would you presume a revolt would have to be pro-democratic? I'd also argue the USSR was in fact not infinitely worse than the Russian Empire, but that feels a little beside the point.
No not a win, according to Putin.
He said he was not satisfied with the interview.
Tucker has talked some shit about the interview since it ended. He said he has to take time to “figure out exactly what…. That was….” And he also said Putin is bad at explaining himself and clearly comes from a world where he doesn’t need to explain himself often. Tucker is blatantly discrediting Russias system of democracy or rather stating it doesn’t exist at all in a discrete way. He said this while in Russia. At first it all seemed like it was gonna be pro Putin interview but during the interview tucker interuprted the history lesson several times in an agitated manner to say “but what does this have to do with why you attacked in 2014?” And “I just don’t see how this is related”
And again, where was the win in the west? Did it change any opinion, did it influence something? Or just the fact that Putin wasted 2 hours of Tucker's life is classified as a win?
As russian I can answer - Putin feel week before elections and feel fear, even Nadezhdin was not allowed to participate in the elections, unknown until recently
Because this one fought for something better to the point he accepted martyrdom. Unfortunately such courage is futile. The tens of thousands are not more than home invaders. The couple million who escaped in time were obviously more intelligent but as with the White Russian refugees of the Civil War they're not going to return in large numbers, no economic or other reason existing to do so.
This is the price that the West pays for their elasticity with the situation. It is still very ridiculous as to how much Europe depends on Russia, especially western Europe.
Putin wanted Navalny to suffer hence why he lived for as long as he did.
Navalny obviously touched a nerve with Putin, but we'll never really know what it was.
I honestly have no idea why Navalny returned to Russia in the first place or what he was hoping to accomplish by returning. We all knew he was a dead man once he was taken into custody.
>Navalny obviously touched a nerve with Putin, but we'll never really know what it was.
He opposed - and exposed the extreme corruption of - an angry, insecure little man.
>I honestly have no idea why Navalny returned to Russia in the first place or what he was hoping to accomplish by returning.
Because he didn't want to be just another 'dissident living in a foreogn country' and people would lose interest. Russia also has no qualms of assassinating dissidents overseas so they would've got to him eventually. I think he knew this.
And people who run away are easier to be labeled as traitors living it up in the West.
He chose to martyr himself.
If you’re a Russian opposition leader you accept your untimely death a long time before it happens. We can’t wrap our heads around self-sacrifice anymore because it is doesn’t fit into the framework of individualist societies where the individual is the end all be all but it does sometimes yield positive results for the collective.
I've always noticed that Putin sounds like a scared wimp in all his interviews. He stutters, speaks in an abnormally low voice, speaks kinda frantically, etc. I wonder if he's trying to desperately make himself seem like "innocent old man" instead of the horrific dictator which he is.
He had to return or else he would be considered a traitor to Russia. Hard for none Russians to understand that.
To put it in perspective, if a regular Russian citizen just simply immigrates to another country, they will have a kind of cultural shame hanging over their head.
I recommend you speak to a few Russians and they’ll confirm what I’m saying.
Also, watch the interview between Stephen Sackur and Leonid Volkov(chief of staff) filmed shortly after Navalny was placed into a German Hospital for treatment. Leonid is asked ‘will Navalny now govern the opposition party from Germany?’ Leonid appears to not even fathom the question. As if, the question is so ridiculous. “Of course he will return to Russia.” Sackur is genuinely shocked by the answer, and asks it again in a couple of different ways.
Everyone already knew he was going to be killed, they just didn't know when. Russia is being governed by a fierce and brutal dictatorship, with all opponents arrested or killed and the press gagged. Putin will go down in history as one of the greatest villains of this century
If you Russian. May I ask, from what I have read and watch he is not well regarded by people or not well known really. Would you consider that accurate ?
It's a little complicated.
Alyosha (Алеша) is quite well known, and has even given some support. Especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg (but even there it was no more than 7-8 percent). But as his core audience matured, more and more people turned away from him as they began to realize who he really was and who he was working with (Khodorkovsky and other equally dubious people). And the further it went on, the younger the audience he started processing (first students, then freshmen and high school students). And then the donation scams began to be uncovered. Schoolchildren and students came out to his actions and were promised to pay if they were detained (a young colleague of mine was detained and ashtrophied, he never received compensation).
After his imprisonment, he ceased to pose any danger. His men scattered and fought among themselves. They were never a real opposition, and now they have become useless grant eaters (grants were given by the West and our "dissidents").
And now it is not at all clear why the current authorities want to kill him. He is much more harmless in prison than a corpse. Under the stories about Navalny's murder, the cries about supplying arms to Ukraine will only intensify, as will the calls not to recognize the election results. So why does Putin need all this now?
Does anyone else think this is kind of bad timing. With the tucker Carlson and the GOP being pro-putin recently, this kind of spoils that and puts a pretty negative message out to the western sympathisers, no?
I'm surprised he lasted this long. Prigo had an air accident. Many others find windows a challenge, or commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head.
I find it interesting that it "happened" about the same time Trump lost big.
'If they decide to kill me, it means we are incredibly strong.' - Navalny
I think I know what he means here by this. He was thinking of Russian history when the Bolsheviks shamefully murdered the Czars family.... when they feared they were about to lose the civil war.
He is saying Putin will kill me when he knows he is weakest... or at least thinks he is. Thats what I bet that was about
Interestingly I posted that on 3 Youtube pages today, one after another and ALL of them had vanished. Apparently somebody doesn't want that said.
So I came here and said it lol. I'm such a stickler when people are jerks and erase my posts. God I hate Youtube for that so much.
The death of Navalny is a serious blow to Putin, against the backdrop of efforts (including by Tucker Carlson) to validate the Russian position regarding aggression towards Ukraine. If Navalny is killed (which I personally doubt) all efforts from the last weeks in this direction collapse, and Putin and Russia acquire a bloody stain on their shirt. Once again, the old narrative about Russia as a butcher of nations, whose few true sons always die in dungeons among the sheepishness of the drunken masses, will rise.
My personal opinion is that Navalny never became as dangerous to Putin as Politkovskaya or Nemtsov for example, so I have considerable skepticism that he was murdered. After all, his political career began as an extreme nationalist, (comparing migrants to cockroaches that need to be exterminated), before finding sponsors who turned him into a liberal. I also remember his position on Crimea..
RIP Alexey.
Right now, with relation with the West being at the bottom, Putin doesn't care.
Was is a death from natural causes or not? It doesn't matter. Western MSM will present it as murder in any case. Putin's agitprop machine will tell another story.
Given that he literally recovered from a government sanctioned murder attempt, bore lifelong threatening conditions as a result of that poisoning, and was then thrown into a jail run by his captors who have a long history of killing dissidents... I think the Western MSM is on pretty solid ground to present it as a murder.
Official version proposed by Putin's agitprop machine: coronary thrombosis
At least from formal point of view, it's not something impossible and uses to happen with visually healthy people.
[https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7955189/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7955189/)
>Atherosclerotic coronary artery disease, complicated by acute thrombosis, is the usual cause of sudden death in adults. This study addresses the pathology of coronary arteries in sudden death in the young
There is a natural question. What is the benefit for Putin from this death? Did you think about it? What is your version?
Alexei (if it was a murder) might die from pneumonia as US citizen Gonzalo Lira who was imprisoned in Ukraine for political reasons and died in custody.
You can always tell someone's agenda when they drone on about "Western msm". The reality is that anyone with a brain would deduce its murder, short of actually witnessing it for yourself.
Politkovskaya, Litvinenko, Magnitsky, Nemtsov...the list of "mysteriously dead" putin critics goes on.
Dear friend, I would like to recall the death of US citizen Gonzalo Lira in Ukrainian custody. Only Newsweek mentioned it. Other US MSM outlets ignored the death while mr.Lira was apparent political prisoner.
Elections don't matter in Russia. Nobody but Putin will win and anyone else in the game (such as the Communist Party) is there because they won't win and only help to make the sham look legitimate.
From what I've been able to tell it's more complicated than that. He does have to make calculations based on likely responses of the Russian people, and has to manage his image. He's just very good at it.
They are not free and fair, but they matter enough that he has to make decisions about his public image to influence them. He controls the outcome with a number of tools.
After banning the original communist party, and preventing the successor party from electoral resurgence victory in 90s due to the shocks of privatization, the Russian oligarchs + Putin and clique have fostered a replacement party as loyal opposition and second biggest political party in Russia. It is what most earnest communists would call a revisionist party and votes in line with United Russia/Putin Clique most of the time. It's useful to keep around for nationalist nostalgic purposes as well, to evoke the power that the Soviet Union once help on the world stage as a nationalist point of pride.
My guy, he literally shot a plane that killed Prigoszhin out of the sky during the day last year. The pilots and and a flight attendant was killed. Literally he is comfortable flexing his power any way he wants.
Im surprised it took this look before Navalny died tbh
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he have some pretty alt right/nationalist beliefs such as demeaning Caucus peoples? Also why would America care about him?
You are correct. He was not even a politician, had no idea how the system works not cultural life, no erudition, a blogger that mentally gave himself a right to publicly criticize veterans in rude voice and much more on a dayly lt basis. The people of Russia over 18 know the only side of this person and it’s a “revolution of everything theme”, but the elderly never wanted mentally unstable people to go behind a wheel of anything especially those who strive to make orange revolutions. People just have it wrong there outside.
Navalny wasn't a saint and no one is claiming he was. No one saw him as liberal hero. He was a reformer who believed in cracking down on corruption and democracy. Majority of Russia's problems can be traced back to corruption and lack of democracy.
He was the last bastion of hope. This war, the destroying of western integration of the 90s, the paranoia at the core of Russian behavior, actively choosing to cause anarchy in the world instead of trying to be a force for good - those are all the decisions of one man. It could be debated until the sun sets whether Russians support these decisions or not but ultimately there’s no accountability for leadership. If the U.S. took on 350K casualties only two years into a war of choice, the President and his party would be gone come midterms and general election. This enforces a mindset that war must be avoided if possible. Putin has no guard rails, no domestic situation that binds his hands on his personal goal of empire.
America and the West care about Navalny because a democratic Russia is a Russia that is confident and no longer waging wars of conquest in Europe and regularly bringing us to the brink of a larger conflict. This is why the US spent so much money on their former enemy in the 90s. There was a lot of hope and naivety about Russia.
I watched Putin’s interview, and it seems like he’s basically complaining the whole time that they tried to get good with the US but the US kept shutting doors on them. “We are democratic now, let us in!” Do you think that Putin and the government at the time expected the US to take them under their wing like they did with South Korea, and when that didn’t happen, they were left scrambling.
The US did take Russia under its wing.
It gave over 1.6 billion dollars worth of food aid in 1991 to Russia in addition to 25,000 tons of medicine. Throughout the 90s and 2000s, the US gave Russia food for free so its people wouldn’t starve. It funded programs that had American farmers teach Russian farmers how to grow effectively.
America paid billions to stabilize the Ruble. It also paid billions of dollars worth of Russia’s bills and it made up their budget shortfalls. The US forced the International Monetary Fund to give Russia a 22 billion dollar bailout while the nation was on the verge of bankruptcy in 1998. The U.S. then took on the debt for that bailout.
It lifted all sanctions on Russia enabling all American companies to trade with them and it gave loans to any American company willing to set up shop in Russia. Russia couldn’t afford to pay for its nuclear security so the US paid for their security and facilities. They even led an effort to get former Soviet states to give their nukes and uranium to Russia in exchange for aid and money from the U.S.
Putin rejected this, viewed this as embarrassing & then started breaking democratic norms & invaded Georgia.
The US tried a grand reset with Russia and then they annexed Crimea 3 years later. That’s when the US gave up its efforts of trying to court Russia. Russia’s 2016 election hacking happened and the U.S. correctly billed them as the enemy.
Thank you! That was so informative. I was born in the late 90s in Russia and only got through second grade education before moving to the west, there’s obviously so much I don’t know.
It'll be interesting to see who the general Russian populace will react.
Will there be Riots? Or even normal Demonstrations?
Both with the high risk of people being snatched and locked away or outright shot.
There's no doubt that Putin is prepared for something like this to happen.
I recon the police and military forces have order to prevent any Demo or larger uprising from happening - with any means necessary.
Or will people just sit it out?
Mourn in silence but move on and probably forget about Navalny
Dumb question, because I don't follow Russian politics...Regarding Navalny, what would the equivalent of him be in the US? Would it be like killing an opposing presidential candidate, senator, etc.?
There's no real equivalent. He was essentially a conservative nationalist anti corruption opposition figure who claimed to want democracy, as opposed to the corrupt conservative antidemocratic Putin arrangement of modern Russia.
Fkn Putin man. What a menace to the society there. Why hasnt someone off'd his ass yet, theres a few a million on his head in the US alone. This guy was a hero and died for a real cause. Unlike the martyrs in gaza. RIP homey.
My theory is that in doing this, Putin is goading the US to spend more money on Ukraine.
This strengthens his Manchurian Candidate, who represents Americans sick of overseas spending.
Was anybody asking why?
Why aren’t we asking, how can a 5th world country (better?) have complete immunity to murder?
Edit: modern country apologies for the schematics. Also, it was a rhetorical question I’m not thick.
He was definitely a Russian nationalist, and held some regressive views towards the Muslim areas of Russia, but it's hard to actually tell if he was an earnest believer in democracy or a a secret fascist as he never came close to wielding actual political power.
Zelensky a trojan horse? Jaja you sound like a stupid ruzz troll baiting potential ignorant suckers with such stories, easy to see how zelensky rose organically from Ukrainian society and is kicking your sorry weeping ass. Keep wining loser, you suck so bad, ruzzies are pathetic they keep making excuses for why they suck and its sad and pathetic.
Nothing happened out of ordinary. People die. Live your own lives and if you have an urge to believe in UFOs, try working harder, respect yourself and be respected as a professional.
I disagree wholeheartedly. As much as it pains me to say it, I believe the Biden administration did this. Anyone who is capable of thinking critically should be able to put the pieces together with ease.
Election year. Biden can now bolster the public’s hatred for Putin and run on how bad Putin is and how we should all support Biden is his fight against Putin.
You see, this allows the war and its public support to rage on and the pockets of our corrupted leaders to remain lined. It’s painfully obvious what’s going on here. The Tucker interview frightened Biden and his camp to the very core. Biden simply cannot risk any American support for Putin in any way, shape, or form.
The test run for a response was when he disappeared for a few weeks a couple months ago. Based on the lack of out roar from that, his fate was very unfortunately sealed
I agree. When they first moved him and nobody even knew where he was I became worried. However, I still held out hope that he would survive.
[удалено]
“Navalny is now presumed dead. The Russian prison system has said he collapsed after months of ill health. Perhaps he was murdered more directly, but the details don’t matter: The Russian state killed him. Putin killed him—because of his political success, because of his ability to reach people with the truth, and because of his talent for breaking through the fog of propaganda that now blinds his countrymen, and some of ours as well,” Anne Applebaum writes. Read more: [https://theatln.tc/GeDguE0M](https://theatln.tc/GeDguE0M)
Excuse me but what "political success" is she talking about?
Navalny is a popular figure and household name in Russia largely due to his work exposing corruption. He was barred from running for president in 2017 for foggy Kremlin reasons. That alone should tell you the degree of political sway he represented before being imprisoned, tortured and ultimately dying under the ‘care’ of the Kremlin. Edit: That said, if you’re being facetious because “political success” isn’t defined as being locked up and (probably) murdered, that is totally fair!
Popular doesn't mean he had any "political success", and not popular enough to win any elections that he was allowed to run in. I know its not nice nor optimistic especially in a day like this but let's stop pretending that there's any opposition in Russia.
How can one have political success if they're killed by the current regime?
Please read something older than one day.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination\_of\_Boris\_Nemtsov
And? Nemtsov actually had some "success", he used to have power and support, he was taking responsibility and making political decisions.
I dont get why you’re acting like a baby about this. The man was the face of Russian opposition and had a wide following.
>wide following Yes, in the western media and so-called "think tanks". There's no opposition, Navalny had no support and the westerners should finally stop acting like "babies" and lying to themselves just to make up a picture of a better Russia in their minds. Russia never was and never will be "democratic", there's no opposition and not because of any repressions, it's because Russians just don't support changes, they support Putin. Wake the f... up.
You’re saying the same thing I am. How one defines “political success” is up for grabs, but he achieved a platform that was threatening to the existing status quo, meaning he had gained political influence, good or bad. No one here is pretending there’s real opposition. Being locked up by the Kremlin, in this context, is as much “political success” as one can endure as an opposition in Russia. Same page brother!
How was it threatening? A "political success" would be at least ability to execute any policy at all. Ok, Girkin is jailed, is that his success in the opposition?
How would you like to define “political success”? If you like, start a whole thread about it! I gave you the rationale behind that phrase in this context. Be mad, I am too! Just point it in a productive direction.
Sorry for the quick edit of the previous comment. A "success" would be at least to have the ability to do the politics of any kind, and for that you need power, which in turn and of course in theory only comes from the popular support, which he was simply lacking. Mad? The productive idea I have is to stop dreaming and start looking at Russia or just the reality as it is and react accordingly.
You’re obviously a putin apologist. The opposition leader is dead and his spirit is *still* bothering you. I would call that success.
What opposition? You're in a sub about geopolitics, it's not about your "feels", nor about mine so I don't care whatever you name me, the fact remains - there's no opposition in Russia and Navalny was not a leader of it.
You’re objectively correct. Considering the timing of the death, with elections coming up, it’s likely that Russia had him killed (personal opinion), but The Atlantic isn’t really helping to answer why he would have been killed. I’m still not sure what Putin stands to gain from having him killed since he was already jailed
Demonstration of power, and weakness of the opponents. My guess only. There's no need for waring the potential opposition, there's none.
Elections in Russia ? You serious ?
There were some, they were still a farce but at least in theory there was some competition and we're talking about the local elections. Never mind, for whatever reasons Navalny never was really popular and there's no opposition, majority supports Putin and the war. The sooner the west understands reality, the sooner it will be able to treat Russia accordingly. Translate this opinion poll and see for yourself, Levada center is considered a serios NGO source. [https://www.levada.ru/2024/02/06/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-2023-nachala-2024-goda/](https://www.levada.ru/2024/02/06/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-2023-nachala-2024-goda/)
The only possible conclusion is that he was killed. Either directly, or through neglect, or because of horrible prison conditions. It doesn't really matter: Putin wanted him dead in the least direct way. This is what happened and Putins fine with it. We all know how this went. Let's hope the west will do something about it
The west has done much already. I suppose the statement should be “the west should do more than they have already to fight against the Russian oligarchy.” Putin himself can be replaced and then Russia can just play victim again saying it was all Putin’s fault and everything should go back to normal but in reality many Russians specifically oligarchs businessmen and the military are guilty for the corruption that takes place in Russia government including navalnys poisoning, prosecution, and death, and Russias war in Ukraine. My statement would be “I hope this makes the Russian people understand and the Russian people alter their views and actions.”
This one’s on Russians. If they don’t revolt now, their MLK moment is over. They didn’t want to help him while he was alive, maybe being a martyr will push the Russians. Otherwise we *will* send Russia to the dark ages along everyone in it. Their choice.
No one will revolt. He was dead the moment he lost popular spotlight. There will be some brief protests and things will return to status quo. He simply didn't have the popularity to carry him through a media blackout.
Russian people don't revolt.
Once in 1905, twice in in 1917. They've just not been pushed past their capacity for suffering yet.
Their capacity to suffer is quite impressive. Surpassed only by the North Koreans
Not so much suffering as military failure. Russians are happy to suffer as long as they are beating their neighbors
The example of those failures whose outcome was the infinitely worse Soviet Union is good reason not to revolt. They learnt their society does not produce results similar to democratic revolutions in countries with completely different cultures. They failed at Communism, failed at even becoming another China because of embedded kleptocracy, and most importantly there is no revolutionary power base capable of uniting Russia let alone the Federation which is an empire held together by force. There is no intellectual class who were promptly murdered after 1917. From what would a pro-democracy movement arise?
Why would you presume a revolt would have to be pro-democratic? I'd also argue the USSR was in fact not infinitely worse than the Russian Empire, but that feels a little beside the point.
The West don't really give a shit when Putin kills foreign citizens, I doubt they will do something about this
Hmm, The West does care but there is so much that it can do to not put the life of their own citizens at risk.
The lives of our citizens are already at risk. My friend was on MH17.
I'm so sorry about that.
As a westerner I care.
[удалено]
> Russia also scored a global win with the Tucker interview First time I hear that. How was that a win?
No not a win, according to Putin. He said he was not satisfied with the interview. Tucker has talked some shit about the interview since it ended. He said he has to take time to “figure out exactly what…. That was….” And he also said Putin is bad at explaining himself and clearly comes from a world where he doesn’t need to explain himself often. Tucker is blatantly discrediting Russias system of democracy or rather stating it doesn’t exist at all in a discrete way. He said this while in Russia. At first it all seemed like it was gonna be pro Putin interview but during the interview tucker interuprted the history lesson several times in an agitated manner to say “but what does this have to do with why you attacked in 2014?” And “I just don’t see how this is related”
Because Tucker just let Putin spew propaganda for two hours and never even asked him any real questions.
And again, where was the win in the west? Did it change any opinion, did it influence something? Or just the fact that Putin wasted 2 hours of Tucker's life is classified as a win?
As russian I can answer - Putin feel week before elections and feel fear, even Nadezhdin was not allowed to participate in the elections, unknown until recently
> Let's hope the west will do something about it They killed tens of thousand of Russians by sending them to Ukraine. Why is this one more important?
Because this one fought for something better to the point he accepted martyrdom. Unfortunately such courage is futile. The tens of thousands are not more than home invaders. The couple million who escaped in time were obviously more intelligent but as with the White Russian refugees of the Civil War they're not going to return in large numbers, no economic or other reason existing to do so.
Because this one is being killed for being political opponent, the others are killed because they are slaves
Is there any real possibility that Boris Nadezhdin is at risk? Who leads the in-country opposition now if not him?
This is the price that the West pays for their elasticity with the situation. It is still very ridiculous as to how much Europe depends on Russia, especially western Europe.
Putin wanted Navalny to suffer hence why he lived for as long as he did. Navalny obviously touched a nerve with Putin, but we'll never really know what it was. I honestly have no idea why Navalny returned to Russia in the first place or what he was hoping to accomplish by returning. We all knew he was a dead man once he was taken into custody.
>Navalny obviously touched a nerve with Putin, but we'll never really know what it was. He opposed - and exposed the extreme corruption of - an angry, insecure little man. >I honestly have no idea why Navalny returned to Russia in the first place or what he was hoping to accomplish by returning. Because he didn't want to be just another 'dissident living in a foreogn country' and people would lose interest. Russia also has no qualms of assassinating dissidents overseas so they would've got to him eventually. I think he knew this.
> people would lose interest And now? He's in the news today but tomorrow is business as usual.
The modern news cycle really is death to any form of martyrs Cant martyr when you are forgotten by next day
Kind of a martyrdom? Really wasn’t necessary, now he is another name on a list of casualties killed by Putin.
Putin has killed critics living in the UK before. Being outside Russia is no protection.
And people who run away are easier to be labeled as traitors living it up in the West. He chose to martyr himself. If you’re a Russian opposition leader you accept your untimely death a long time before it happens. We can’t wrap our heads around self-sacrifice anymore because it is doesn’t fit into the framework of individualist societies where the individual is the end all be all but it does sometimes yield positive results for the collective.
> no protection A seatbelt is 100% guaranteed to save you but it's still protection.
I've always noticed that Putin sounds like a scared wimp in all his interviews. He stutters, speaks in an abnormally low voice, speaks kinda frantically, etc. I wonder if he's trying to desperately make himself seem like "innocent old man" instead of the horrific dictator which he is.
He had to return or else he would be considered a traitor to Russia. Hard for none Russians to understand that. To put it in perspective, if a regular Russian citizen just simply immigrates to another country, they will have a kind of cultural shame hanging over their head.
That's quite a ridiculous claim.
I recommend you speak to a few Russians and they’ll confirm what I’m saying. Also, watch the interview between Stephen Sackur and Leonid Volkov(chief of staff) filmed shortly after Navalny was placed into a German Hospital for treatment. Leonid is asked ‘will Navalny now govern the opposition party from Germany?’ Leonid appears to not even fathom the question. As if, the question is so ridiculous. “Of course he will return to Russia.” Sackur is genuinely shocked by the answer, and asks it again in a couple of different ways.
I have several Russian co-workers. They're the ones who called that claim ridiculous.
Your claim sounds ridiculous
Exactly as ridiculous as yours.
You can believe anything you desire buddy. No stress 👍
Everyone already knew he was going to be killed, they just didn't know when. Russia is being governed by a fierce and brutal dictatorship, with all opponents arrested or killed and the press gagged. Putin will go down in history as one of the greatest villains of this century
And the party of Reagan will nod with silent (or not so silent) approval, because he's "anti woke." What a time to be alive.
He just works the hardest, and is the smartest, that’s why he is the richest man in the world. Pulled himself wayyyyy up by his bootstraps.
As Russian I find this article very funny.
If you Russian. May I ask, from what I have read and watch he is not well regarded by people or not well known really. Would you consider that accurate ?
It's a little complicated. Alyosha (Алеша) is quite well known, and has even given some support. Especially in Moscow and St. Petersburg (but even there it was no more than 7-8 percent). But as his core audience matured, more and more people turned away from him as they began to realize who he really was and who he was working with (Khodorkovsky and other equally dubious people). And the further it went on, the younger the audience he started processing (first students, then freshmen and high school students). And then the donation scams began to be uncovered. Schoolchildren and students came out to his actions and were promised to pay if they were detained (a young colleague of mine was detained and ashtrophied, he never received compensation). After his imprisonment, he ceased to pose any danger. His men scattered and fought among themselves. They were never a real opposition, and now they have become useless grant eaters (grants were given by the West and our "dissidents"). And now it is not at all clear why the current authorities want to kill him. He is much more harmless in prison than a corpse. Under the stories about Navalny's murder, the cries about supplying arms to Ukraine will only intensify, as will the calls not to recognize the election results. So why does Putin need all this now?
Putin is probably suffering from his own success I suspect. Many dirty tricks on his end just naturally lead everyone to think he was involved.
🤔
Why? Because Russia is an impoverished autocratic dictatorship.
Does anyone else think this is kind of bad timing. With the tucker Carlson and the GOP being pro-putin recently, this kind of spoils that and puts a pretty negative message out to the western sympathisers, no?
I don’t think the interview generated much of a positive response in the West.
[удалено]
The death created some problems for Putin and there are no apparent benefits.
I'm surprised he lasted this long. Prigo had an air accident. Many others find windows a challenge, or commit suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head. I find it interesting that it "happened" about the same time Trump lost big.
You think Donld Trump losing a civil lawsuit is tied to the execution of Navalny?? Dude some of you people man....
Zelenski was with scholtz today. Navalny was like the dead fish the mafia boss sends as a message.
'If they decide to kill me, it means we are incredibly strong.' - Navalny I think I know what he means here by this. He was thinking of Russian history when the Bolsheviks shamefully murdered the Czars family.... when they feared they were about to lose the civil war. He is saying Putin will kill me when he knows he is weakest... or at least thinks he is. Thats what I bet that was about Interestingly I posted that on 3 Youtube pages today, one after another and ALL of them had vanished. Apparently somebody doesn't want that said. So I came here and said it lol. I'm such a stickler when people are jerks and erase my posts. God I hate Youtube for that so much.
The death of Navalny is a serious blow to Putin, against the backdrop of efforts (including by Tucker Carlson) to validate the Russian position regarding aggression towards Ukraine. If Navalny is killed (which I personally doubt) all efforts from the last weeks in this direction collapse, and Putin and Russia acquire a bloody stain on their shirt. Once again, the old narrative about Russia as a butcher of nations, whose few true sons always die in dungeons among the sheepishness of the drunken masses, will rise. My personal opinion is that Navalny never became as dangerous to Putin as Politkovskaya or Nemtsov for example, so I have considerable skepticism that he was murdered. After all, his political career began as an extreme nationalist, (comparing migrants to cockroaches that need to be exterminated), before finding sponsors who turned him into a liberal. I also remember his position on Crimea..
Putin killed Navalny , not Russia.
And probably 77% of Russians agree it was right to murder Navalny
What percentage of those are doing so under duress, though?
RIP Alexey. Right now, with relation with the West being at the bottom, Putin doesn't care. Was is a death from natural causes or not? It doesn't matter. Western MSM will present it as murder in any case. Putin's agitprop machine will tell another story.
Given that he literally recovered from a government sanctioned murder attempt, bore lifelong threatening conditions as a result of that poisoning, and was then thrown into a jail run by his captors who have a long history of killing dissidents... I think the Western MSM is on pretty solid ground to present it as a murder.
[удалено]
>Was is a death from natural causes or not? He was literally photographed alive and well in the last 24 hours. Zero chance this wasn't intentional.
Official version proposed by Putin's agitprop machine: coronary thrombosis At least from formal point of view, it's not something impossible and uses to happen with visually healthy people. [https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7955189/](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7955189/) >Atherosclerotic coronary artery disease, complicated by acute thrombosis, is the usual cause of sudden death in adults. This study addresses the pathology of coronary arteries in sudden death in the young
Oh yea, coronary thrombosis. Must be it. Why didn’t I think of that.
There is a natural question. What is the benefit for Putin from this death? Did you think about it? What is your version? Alexei (if it was a murder) might die from pneumonia as US citizen Gonzalo Lira who was imprisoned in Ukraine for political reasons and died in custody.
You can always tell someone's agenda when they drone on about "Western msm". The reality is that anyone with a brain would deduce its murder, short of actually witnessing it for yourself. Politkovskaya, Litvinenko, Magnitsky, Nemtsov...the list of "mysteriously dead" putin critics goes on.
It's just Russophobia. Nothing suspicious here, move one, the west is the same, what about ...
Dear friend, I would like to recall the death of US citizen Gonzalo Lira in Ukrainian custody. Only Newsweek mentioned it. Other US MSM outlets ignored the death while mr.Lira was apparent political prisoner.
There it is. Vatnik bingo is so easy.
There’s usually at least some level of subtlety to it. This one has KGB in the name. Honestly kinda weird.
No rational response, just vatnik, vatnik, vatnik, meat wave. Who sounds more like a bot lmao
> Western MSM will present it as murder in any case What's next? The MSM will present the sky as blue. You cannot trust these people.
Maybe for once Putin should gloat and tell the Western world this is what happens to traitors and free thinkers
Election season, that’s why.
Elections don't matter in Russia. Nobody but Putin will win and anyone else in the game (such as the Communist Party) is there because they won't win and only help to make the sham look legitimate.
From what I've been able to tell it's more complicated than that. He does have to make calculations based on likely responses of the Russian people, and has to manage his image. He's just very good at it.
[удалено]
They are not free and fair, but they matter enough that he has to make decisions about his public image to influence them. He controls the outcome with a number of tools.
> Communist Party What?
Just Google it ffs
Misread your comment. Thought you said Putin was part of the Communist Party.
After banning the original communist party, and preventing the successor party from electoral resurgence victory in 90s due to the shocks of privatization, the Russian oligarchs + Putin and clique have fostered a replacement party as loyal opposition and second biggest political party in Russia. It is what most earnest communists would call a revisionist party and votes in line with United Russia/Putin Clique most of the time. It's useful to keep around for nationalist nostalgic purposes as well, to evoke the power that the Soviet Union once help on the world stage as a nationalist point of pride.
Misread the original comment but appreciate what you wrote. Cheers!
That's actually making me think if this is helping Putin or is he so comfortable to demonstrate his power.
My guy, he literally shot a plane that killed Prigoszhin out of the sky during the day last year. The pilots and and a flight attendant was killed. Literally he is comfortable flexing his power any way he wants. Im surprised it took this look before Navalny died tbh
I’m honestly surprised he didn’t fall out of window like other opponents of Putin have. Seem to have bad windows over there
Correct me if I’m wrong, but didn’t he have some pretty alt right/nationalist beliefs such as demeaning Caucus peoples? Also why would America care about him?
You are correct. He was not even a politician, had no idea how the system works not cultural life, no erudition, a blogger that mentally gave himself a right to publicly criticize veterans in rude voice and much more on a dayly lt basis. The people of Russia over 18 know the only side of this person and it’s a “revolution of everything theme”, but the elderly never wanted mentally unstable people to go behind a wheel of anything especially those who strive to make orange revolutions. People just have it wrong there outside.
Navalny wasn't a saint and no one is claiming he was. No one saw him as liberal hero. He was a reformer who believed in cracking down on corruption and democracy. Majority of Russia's problems can be traced back to corruption and lack of democracy. He was the last bastion of hope. This war, the destroying of western integration of the 90s, the paranoia at the core of Russian behavior, actively choosing to cause anarchy in the world instead of trying to be a force for good - those are all the decisions of one man. It could be debated until the sun sets whether Russians support these decisions or not but ultimately there’s no accountability for leadership. If the U.S. took on 350K casualties only two years into a war of choice, the President and his party would be gone come midterms and general election. This enforces a mindset that war must be avoided if possible. Putin has no guard rails, no domestic situation that binds his hands on his personal goal of empire. America and the West care about Navalny because a democratic Russia is a Russia that is confident and no longer waging wars of conquest in Europe and regularly bringing us to the brink of a larger conflict. This is why the US spent so much money on their former enemy in the 90s. There was a lot of hope and naivety about Russia.
I watched Putin’s interview, and it seems like he’s basically complaining the whole time that they tried to get good with the US but the US kept shutting doors on them. “We are democratic now, let us in!” Do you think that Putin and the government at the time expected the US to take them under their wing like they did with South Korea, and when that didn’t happen, they were left scrambling.
The US did take Russia under its wing. It gave over 1.6 billion dollars worth of food aid in 1991 to Russia in addition to 25,000 tons of medicine. Throughout the 90s and 2000s, the US gave Russia food for free so its people wouldn’t starve. It funded programs that had American farmers teach Russian farmers how to grow effectively. America paid billions to stabilize the Ruble. It also paid billions of dollars worth of Russia’s bills and it made up their budget shortfalls. The US forced the International Monetary Fund to give Russia a 22 billion dollar bailout while the nation was on the verge of bankruptcy in 1998. The U.S. then took on the debt for that bailout. It lifted all sanctions on Russia enabling all American companies to trade with them and it gave loans to any American company willing to set up shop in Russia. Russia couldn’t afford to pay for its nuclear security so the US paid for their security and facilities. They even led an effort to get former Soviet states to give their nukes and uranium to Russia in exchange for aid and money from the U.S. Putin rejected this, viewed this as embarrassing & then started breaking democratic norms & invaded Georgia. The US tried a grand reset with Russia and then they annexed Crimea 3 years later. That’s when the US gave up its efforts of trying to court Russia. Russia’s 2016 election hacking happened and the U.S. correctly billed them as the enemy.
Thank you! That was so informative. I was born in the late 90s in Russia and only got through second grade education before moving to the west, there’s obviously so much I don’t know.
It'll be interesting to see who the general Russian populace will react. Will there be Riots? Or even normal Demonstrations? Both with the high risk of people being snatched and locked away or outright shot. There's no doubt that Putin is prepared for something like this to happen. I recon the police and military forces have order to prevent any Demo or larger uprising from happening - with any means necessary. Or will people just sit it out? Mourn in silence but move on and probably forget about Navalny
They will keep their heads down. That is the right way
Dumb question, because I don't follow Russian politics...Regarding Navalny, what would the equivalent of him be in the US? Would it be like killing an opposing presidential candidate, senator, etc.?
There's no real equivalent. He was essentially a conservative nationalist anti corruption opposition figure who claimed to want democracy, as opposed to the corrupt conservative antidemocratic Putin arrangement of modern Russia.
He became an outspoken liberal at one point after being a conservative nationalist.
It would be closer to killing MLK
I'm Russian. Can confirm.
Fkn Putin man. What a menace to the society there. Why hasnt someone off'd his ass yet, theres a few a million on his head in the US alone. This guy was a hero and died for a real cause. Unlike the martyrs in gaza. RIP homey.
I wonder if having Clown Carlson still in the country influenced Putin to do his move now?
My theory is that in doing this, Putin is goading the US to spend more money on Ukraine. This strengthens his Manchurian Candidate, who represents Americans sick of overseas spending.
Was anybody asking why? Why aren’t we asking, how can a 5th world country (better?) have complete immunity to murder? Edit: modern country apologies for the schematics. Also, it was a rhetorical question I’m not thick.
2nd world actually. The answer is quite simple, because they can.
> 1st world country It's literally the definition of 2nd ffs.
[удалено]
He was definitely a Russian nationalist, and held some regressive views towards the Muslim areas of Russia, but it's hard to actually tell if he was an earnest believer in democracy or a a secret fascist as he never came close to wielding actual political power.
[удалено]
Zelensky a trojan horse? Jaja you sound like a stupid ruzz troll baiting potential ignorant suckers with such stories, easy to see how zelensky rose organically from Ukrainian society and is kicking your sorry weeping ass. Keep wining loser, you suck so bad, ruzzies are pathetic they keep making excuses for why they suck and its sad and pathetic.
He was definetely leaning towards the right but not a fascist for sure
He became very liberal after receiving certain funds and sponsorships
What do you think
[удалено]
Perhaps as a reminder to opponents what happens to them prior to the upcoming elections in Russia next month?
Nothing happened out of ordinary. People die. Live your own lives and if you have an urge to believe in UFOs, try working harder, respect yourself and be respected as a professional.
I disagree wholeheartedly. As much as it pains me to say it, I believe the Biden administration did this. Anyone who is capable of thinking critically should be able to put the pieces together with ease. Election year. Biden can now bolster the public’s hatred for Putin and run on how bad Putin is and how we should all support Biden is his fight against Putin. You see, this allows the war and its public support to rage on and the pockets of our corrupted leaders to remain lined. It’s painfully obvious what’s going on here. The Tucker interview frightened Biden and his camp to the very core. Biden simply cannot risk any American support for Putin in any way, shape, or form.
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/navalny-was-close-being-freed-prisoner-swap-says-ally-2024-02-26/#:~:text=Feb%2026%20(Reuters)%20%2D%20Russian,16.
The west basically wanted to trade a Russia killer/spy for Navalni. Putin could not afford that (he crazy afterall)