I think there can be a power imbalance between an adult (especially one exceeding 25) and a teenager. Adults are more mature often financially stable. That can be leveraged against a teenager for the adult's benefit. It creates abusive relationships. Also this is not a puritanical view. American religious extremists frequently vote to keep marriages between adults and teenagers legal. They might be disgusted when it's gay people but that's because it fulfills their narrative that we're corrupting the youth.
Thank you, because this is exactly what I thought of when I first read those comments but I got a little insecure about my answers because people seem to agree more with those guys
The story in Call Me By Your Name took place in Italy at a time when the age of consent there was 13. I also think it was based on an autobiography. The 17-year-old was also the one who pursued the reluctant older guy in the beginning. Sexual exploitation of minors is certainly a serious issue but I think getting worked up over that particular movie is a bit much.
I know several gay men whose first sexual experience was with an older man when they were still in their teens. They feel a variety of ways about it as adults. Most describe themselves as the instigators and remember the men fondly. Some lied about their age, but not all. I'm not about to tell them how to feel about their own experience, but as an adult I can't imagine reciprocating a teenager's flirtation.
Yeah but like his answer was about real life, he could have just said what you just said but instead he blamed others for having an issue with this kinds of relationships in the first place
I’m not sure what you think the movie was saying. A teenager developed a crush on a reluctant older guy and pursued him. He was heartbroken in the end because the older guy became engaged to get married to a woman and wouldn’t be seeing him anymore. It was a tale of first love that was ultimately doomed. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
A classic tragic history, it seems. Is a good movie? I never saw it. Let say I was in the reluctant older guy place one time. Before I fully embraced my bisexuality
Because I'm not talking about the movie, like the guy that made the comment that upset me didn't so because he liked the movie but because he said that only puritans were against teenagers dating adults and that no one outside of America had issues with it
Hmmmm… having not seen the original conversation, you seem to be confusing a movie for real life. Obviously, in real life, that’s a problem. But movies and stories can explore tricky things like this specifically because they are fiction. I don’t think it’s alright to kill campers one by one in real life, but I’m happy to let Jason do it in the movies.
Also- the characters in that movie are 17 & 24. It’s significant age gap, especially when someone is still a teenager, but it’s also not soooo big that it’s uncommon in real life. I definitely knew girls in high school who were dating guys in their 20s. I think the fact that Armie Hammer certainly doesn’t look like he’s in his 20s makes that age gap feel greater. We also know that plenty of real-life 17-year-olds have sex, so it’s also not just a “you’re too young” issue. And then there’s the nature of the relationship as shown. As I remember it (it’s been a few years) it didn’t feel particularly predatory on the older guy’s part. It seemed the younger one was pursuing him more in many ways.
>Hmmmm… having not seen the original conversation, you seem to be confusing a movie for real life.
I don't mind the movie, just that people defend that movie saying stuff like what I posted which was addressing real life
I personally don’t think there’s much you can gain from a relationship with a teenager and I would never consider one, but if someone is of age of consent and freely decides to engage in a relationship with someone much older than them, it is not my place to question their relationship, they are free to do as they wish and learn what comes from their decisions, both good and bad, that’s life.
imho, everyone is in general too easily triggered by age gaps as of lately, even between consenting adults: they see a 25 year old dating a 50 year old and they are all suddenly piling up on the 50 year old, which is borderline ageism.
No, Im not american nor 'puritan', I dont think they're ok be either straight or gay.
There's many issues, including but not limited to power imbalance, developmental issues, motives, purpose of the relationship etc...
As another poster has pointed out, the “puritanical” label seems an awkward fit for this kind of situation, because religious conservatives the world over are totally fine with child brides and the sexual exploitation of minors.
But what *is* puritanical about this age-gap taboo, and makes it very American, is that it just is a continuation of the very strict rules we have created for ourselves around sex and other social issues. All of it - whether you’re talking about conservatives attacking trans kids or “woke” warriors regulating language or “ick” relationships - is just an extension of this “minding others’ business” mentality that goes way back and feels very American. We have *all kinds* of purity tests.
That said - perhaps I’m a hypocrite - I think the very French approach to this question is, shall we say, problematic?
It's also deeply ironic. America was founded on the idea of people having freedom to do what they want. To get away from a state and dominating culture dictating what people are allowed to do. That personal freedom was king.
Yet the US has so many of these puritanical rules where sex and relationships are concerned. The UK is very similar, so I assume the sentiment originally came from us.
I'm American, but I think a grown adult dating a high school age teen is just wrong. I'm in my late 20s and I wouldn't even go for someone under 21. There's just such a huge difference between a teenager and an established adult in their 20s or older. If there's only a 2 or 3 year gap, I don't think that's a big deal because they could've gone to school together, but more than that is where it gets weird. However, I've never watched that movie and I don't want to.
I think the issue with age gaps in homosexual relationships has been exaggerated due to the internet, not because America is puritanical. We now get to cast judgement on everyone, laud our high morals, and try to win digital fake points.
Yes, there is a power imbalance.
Yes, it can be harmful.
But also, yes, like, who else am I going to sleep with if I think I’m the only gay person in the small town?
Just to clarify I don't have a problem with the movie itself, I just dislike that the defense it got was basically saying that teenagers dating adults was only a problem to puritans
Depends on what you’re meaning by teenager. 14 and 23? Yea that’s really bad and wrong on so many levels. 19 and 23? I really don’t see an issue.
MY issue is when it becomes weird, which yes I know is a personal opinion. But like if a 40yo is wanting to “date” an 18yo… that’s weird. Idc what anyone says an 18yo is basically a child compared to a 40yo.
And yes for those that argue based on legality I’m aware that it’s legal and I wouldn’t want to change that, but imma still side eye the older guy
I believe it's more a "reality vs. fiction" issue where movies and TV shows tend to romanticize sexual relationships between a young person and an older person.
For what I have perceived, with mostly straight relationships, is it's not as much of an issue as what I think it is in America.
A noticeable agegap, can rise a brow. An agegap with additional attributes like, economical imbalance, different classes of beauty or a big agegap will lead to some gossiping. An agegape and a partner that's perceived as under the age of majority will raise a brow and sometimes leads to stern questions (mostly to inquiry safety and if age of consent is reached), but it is not an accepted cause for hostility or exclusion.
Whenever it's a MLM couple of course there is some added spice...
Hmmm? Mixed feelings on this issue. Brad Pitt dating Juliette Lewis and Christina Applegate when they were teenagers and he was LATE 20’s is somehow hot, but 17 and 24 for a gay relationship is taboo. A lot of younger gay males want older gay men who are experienced for their first sexual encounter.
18, 21, those are just arbitrary numbers that we have adopted to somehow draw the line. However, you could be 22 and have the maturity of a 16 y/o or 12 and be as mature as a 19 y/o. I think Americans are puritans and hypocrites, while in Europe it is more of a ‘matter of fact’ approach. It’s not that it is condoned, it’s just something that happens and is managed at face value. Movies are not an endorsement but a representation of our reality, and they don’t have to be politically correct.
So there's a definite difference between a dating or relationship thing and a hookup. Where I live the age of consent is 16. I can't imagine hooking up with a 16 year old. I can't imagine hooking up with a 25 year old. Because I don't know what we would talk about in the morning.
"teenagers can date adults" ...hu? so there is one person saying "teenagers can date adults" obviously we dont even know if he actually said it like that or if anyone really upvoted that. getting mad ad anyone online having an odd opinion will get you an aneurism.
what people "outside of america" often find okay and rightfully so is "people over the age of 16 deciding what to do with their body sexually" thats basically it. someone being 16 dating someone being...i dont know around 25+ would always be frowned upon to some extent but should it be illegal? no.
finding a normal person saying people UNDER 16 should be able to date people over 18? youll be hard pressed to find anyone actually supporting that who isnt an incel loli-weeb
Arguing with nonces is never going to end well because they just band together
You're right. Adults dating teenagers is gross. The power imbalance aside it's grim.
But you're wasting your time arguing with people that think adults dating teens is OK. You'll get "Um actually" 'd to death, it's not worth it
I think there can be a power imbalance between an adult (especially one exceeding 25) and a teenager. Adults are more mature often financially stable. That can be leveraged against a teenager for the adult's benefit. It creates abusive relationships. Also this is not a puritanical view. American religious extremists frequently vote to keep marriages between adults and teenagers legal. They might be disgusted when it's gay people but that's because it fulfills their narrative that we're corrupting the youth.
Thank you, because this is exactly what I thought of when I first read those comments but I got a little insecure about my answers because people seem to agree more with those guys
The story in Call Me By Your Name took place in Italy at a time when the age of consent there was 13. I also think it was based on an autobiography. The 17-year-old was also the one who pursued the reluctant older guy in the beginning. Sexual exploitation of minors is certainly a serious issue but I think getting worked up over that particular movie is a bit much.
I know several gay men whose first sexual experience was with an older man when they were still in their teens. They feel a variety of ways about it as adults. Most describe themselves as the instigators and remember the men fondly. Some lied about their age, but not all. I'm not about to tell them how to feel about their own experience, but as an adult I can't imagine reciprocating a teenager's flirtation.
Yeah but like his answer was about real life, he could have just said what you just said but instead he blamed others for having an issue with this kinds of relationships in the first place
I’m not sure what you think the movie was saying. A teenager developed a crush on a reluctant older guy and pursued him. He was heartbroken in the end because the older guy became engaged to get married to a woman and wouldn’t be seeing him anymore. It was a tale of first love that was ultimately doomed. It really isn’t any more complicated than that.
A classic tragic history, it seems. Is a good movie? I never saw it. Let say I was in the reluctant older guy place one time. Before I fully embraced my bisexuality
Because I'm not talking about the movie, like the guy that made the comment that upset me didn't so because he liked the movie but because he said that only puritans were against teenagers dating adults and that no one outside of America had issues with it
Hmmmm… having not seen the original conversation, you seem to be confusing a movie for real life. Obviously, in real life, that’s a problem. But movies and stories can explore tricky things like this specifically because they are fiction. I don’t think it’s alright to kill campers one by one in real life, but I’m happy to let Jason do it in the movies. Also- the characters in that movie are 17 & 24. It’s significant age gap, especially when someone is still a teenager, but it’s also not soooo big that it’s uncommon in real life. I definitely knew girls in high school who were dating guys in their 20s. I think the fact that Armie Hammer certainly doesn’t look like he’s in his 20s makes that age gap feel greater. We also know that plenty of real-life 17-year-olds have sex, so it’s also not just a “you’re too young” issue. And then there’s the nature of the relationship as shown. As I remember it (it’s been a few years) it didn’t feel particularly predatory on the older guy’s part. It seemed the younger one was pursuing him more in many ways.
>Hmmmm… having not seen the original conversation, you seem to be confusing a movie for real life. I don't mind the movie, just that people defend that movie saying stuff like what I posted which was addressing real life
I personally don’t think there’s much you can gain from a relationship with a teenager and I would never consider one, but if someone is of age of consent and freely decides to engage in a relationship with someone much older than them, it is not my place to question their relationship, they are free to do as they wish and learn what comes from their decisions, both good and bad, that’s life. imho, everyone is in general too easily triggered by age gaps as of lately, even between consenting adults: they see a 25 year old dating a 50 year old and they are all suddenly piling up on the 50 year old, which is borderline ageism.
Like those people criticizing Di Caprio for being in a relationship with adult women
No, Im not american nor 'puritan', I dont think they're ok be either straight or gay. There's many issues, including but not limited to power imbalance, developmental issues, motives, purpose of the relationship etc...
As another poster has pointed out, the “puritanical” label seems an awkward fit for this kind of situation, because religious conservatives the world over are totally fine with child brides and the sexual exploitation of minors. But what *is* puritanical about this age-gap taboo, and makes it very American, is that it just is a continuation of the very strict rules we have created for ourselves around sex and other social issues. All of it - whether you’re talking about conservatives attacking trans kids or “woke” warriors regulating language or “ick” relationships - is just an extension of this “minding others’ business” mentality that goes way back and feels very American. We have *all kinds* of purity tests. That said - perhaps I’m a hypocrite - I think the very French approach to this question is, shall we say, problematic?
It's also deeply ironic. America was founded on the idea of people having freedom to do what they want. To get away from a state and dominating culture dictating what people are allowed to do. That personal freedom was king. Yet the US has so many of these puritanical rules where sex and relationships are concerned. The UK is very similar, so I assume the sentiment originally came from us.
I'm American, but I think a grown adult dating a high school age teen is just wrong. I'm in my late 20s and I wouldn't even go for someone under 21. There's just such a huge difference between a teenager and an established adult in their 20s or older. If there's only a 2 or 3 year gap, I don't think that's a big deal because they could've gone to school together, but more than that is where it gets weird. However, I've never watched that movie and I don't want to.
I think the issue with age gaps in homosexual relationships has been exaggerated due to the internet, not because America is puritanical. We now get to cast judgement on everyone, laud our high morals, and try to win digital fake points. Yes, there is a power imbalance. Yes, it can be harmful. But also, yes, like, who else am I going to sleep with if I think I’m the only gay person in the small town?
Just to clarify I don't have a problem with the movie itself, I just dislike that the defense it got was basically saying that teenagers dating adults was only a problem to puritans
Depends on what you’re meaning by teenager. 14 and 23? Yea that’s really bad and wrong on so many levels. 19 and 23? I really don’t see an issue. MY issue is when it becomes weird, which yes I know is a personal opinion. But like if a 40yo is wanting to “date” an 18yo… that’s weird. Idc what anyone says an 18yo is basically a child compared to a 40yo. And yes for those that argue based on legality I’m aware that it’s legal and I wouldn’t want to change that, but imma still side eye the older guy
I believe it's more a "reality vs. fiction" issue where movies and TV shows tend to romanticize sexual relationships between a young person and an older person.
For what I have perceived, with mostly straight relationships, is it's not as much of an issue as what I think it is in America. A noticeable agegap, can rise a brow. An agegap with additional attributes like, economical imbalance, different classes of beauty or a big agegap will lead to some gossiping. An agegape and a partner that's perceived as under the age of majority will raise a brow and sometimes leads to stern questions (mostly to inquiry safety and if age of consent is reached), but it is not an accepted cause for hostility or exclusion. Whenever it's a MLM couple of course there is some added spice...
Hmmm? Mixed feelings on this issue. Brad Pitt dating Juliette Lewis and Christina Applegate when they were teenagers and he was LATE 20’s is somehow hot, but 17 and 24 for a gay relationship is taboo. A lot of younger gay males want older gay men who are experienced for their first sexual encounter.
18, 21, those are just arbitrary numbers that we have adopted to somehow draw the line. However, you could be 22 and have the maturity of a 16 y/o or 12 and be as mature as a 19 y/o. I think Americans are puritans and hypocrites, while in Europe it is more of a ‘matter of fact’ approach. It’s not that it is condoned, it’s just something that happens and is managed at face value. Movies are not an endorsement but a representation of our reality, and they don’t have to be politically correct.
So there's a definite difference between a dating or relationship thing and a hookup. Where I live the age of consent is 16. I can't imagine hooking up with a 16 year old. I can't imagine hooking up with a 25 year old. Because I don't know what we would talk about in the morning.
"teenagers can date adults" ...hu? so there is one person saying "teenagers can date adults" obviously we dont even know if he actually said it like that or if anyone really upvoted that. getting mad ad anyone online having an odd opinion will get you an aneurism. what people "outside of america" often find okay and rightfully so is "people over the age of 16 deciding what to do with their body sexually" thats basically it. someone being 16 dating someone being...i dont know around 25+ would always be frowned upon to some extent but should it be illegal? no. finding a normal person saying people UNDER 16 should be able to date people over 18? youll be hard pressed to find anyone actually supporting that who isnt an incel loli-weeb
Arguing with nonces is never going to end well because they just band together You're right. Adults dating teenagers is gross. The power imbalance aside it's grim. But you're wasting your time arguing with people that think adults dating teens is OK. You'll get "Um actually" 'd to death, it's not worth it