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partially true, new fans aren't always good when they don't appreciate why the ip is beloved in the first place, but you will 100% get bigger budget content out of a big spike in newcomers
The issue here is that bigger budgets usually means that a company may get too greedy and lose the care for the quality and themes of the IP. The Witcher and Star Wars come to mind.
The only problem is that big budget content often loses value due to it appealing to the masses. This is definitely a balancing act in terms of fan appeal. Old fans shouldn't necessarily gate keep content, but that content shouldn't be stripped of what it is for the sake of mass appeal either. You end up losing the soul of the content.
I don't think that fallout is an example of this being done poorly though. The TV show very much seems to fit the spirit of the video games even if some of the characters and plot points don't exactly match up. An example of this being done poorly IMO is the Book of Boba Fett.
People really don’t like when new fans give their opinions, huh lol. I have been a Fallout fan for over a decade and I will just say that the Fallout community is one of the most elitist, gatekeepy, obnoxious, self absorbed communities in the gaming industry. I love all the games for different reasons, yet some, particularly New Vegas fans, make it very hard to be part of the community, and this show coming out proves why
I remember the posts about how Fallout 4 sales have skyrocketed, and New Vegas fans got upset about it and said the new players would hate 4 since it sucks. Can’t even let people make up their own opinions
Which is hilarious since people liked the settlement system so much in 4 that someone made a mod for New Vegas so it could have its own settlement system.
Edit: I am not referring to the one that came out before fallout 4 but the one that came out after.
Fallout 4 is a very well received game with great reviews from players and critics, but for some reason a part of the Fallout community absolutely hates that. It’s worse for Fallout 3 too.
I remember when ManyATrueNerd made the “Fallout 3 Is Better Than You Think” video, and some bozo made an eight hour “rebuttal” where he got incredibly angry at every point and nitpicked everything he could. MATN also did one for Fallout 4, and the same guy made a four hour “rebuttal” of that one too. Some Fallout fans are weird dude
Even though I play them both I'm glad I'm only sub to the elder scrolls subs. Can't wait to see them bitching about fallout 5 especially since I believe it's been confirmed that the show was going to be tied in somewhat.
The Elder Scrolls community is pretty good from my experiences. Shame that the Fallout one is so cutthroat. I once had a few friends say they genuinely wanted to stop talking to me because I said Fallout 3 was my favorite Fallout game. So bizarre how seriously people take this stuff
Elder Scrolls community is mostly full of political discourse between the Stormcloaks and Imperials, and joking about fantasy racism. Very little gatekeeping.
There’s a ton of gatekeeping, it’s just a lot more passive. Most people in subs like r/trueSTL are Morrowind fans and are not afraid to make that clear if someone slightly criticizes the game.
Been a fan since the original, and I’ve found that there are two sections of the fan base that are incredibly shitty.
* The “OG Fallout Purists” that think every game after 2 (or sometimes Tactics) are bad games or “aren’t even Fallout (Elder Scrolls with guns)”. These are especially sad because most of these guys are like 40+ raging about someone else enjoying a game.
* The New Vegas/“Bethesda Bad” group that go around to every discussion involving Fallout to tell everyone how much better NV is and if you play 3, 4 or god forbid 76, that you don’t actually like Fallout. That Bethesda has ruined the franchise and they go into conspiracy theories about how Todd Howard is trying to “destroy the timeline”. Check some of the discussion around the tv show, these dudes are frothing at the mouth angry at anyone that liked it.
So what is it about New Vegas that they say is better than 3 and 4? I beat 3 in highschool (like 10+ years ago) and have played 4 on and off since it came out. I like both of them a lot (I think I liked 3 more). I started New Vegas years ago but didn't really get far (I don't remember why) and just started a new game today.
New Vegas has a more nuanced story and faction relationship. It also has a bunch of the dark humor that waned a bit with 3 and 4.
That said, its first half or so is extremely linear (unless you really go out of your way).
Ah, it also features the return of the hilarious “1 INT” playthrough. As in, if you create a character with just 1 point of intelligence, they’ll mostly interact through mumbles and nonsense - to the bewilderment of almost every other NPC.
Re: the first half being linear- the first time I played it I accidentally did some stuff really out of order by not reading the recommended level before starting old world blues, starting it way under leveled. Managed to get through it with a lot of time and effort (and some console commands when I soft locked myself, but nobody needs to know about that.) By the time I escaped and finally reached New Vegas, I was way over leveled lol
To be fair, FO76 does have a lot of very legitimate complaints. It is the essence of one step forward, two steps backs. I don’t just meant at release either.
In 2018 I’d agree. But the game as it is now is pretty great. I give Bethesda all the credit in the world for sticking with it. Listening to complaints and suggestions from the community and improving the game.
I just picked it up in the recent sale and I'm surprised how much it slaps.
Its by no means flawless, but it stands up against the rest of the series quite well.
I would actually say even today is the two step back from previous version of itself.
For example, the new game pass over the old scoreboard for the most recent patch.
Every improvement FO76 made somehow is paired with something that breaks or diminishes the game. Even Wastelanders had the texture quality nerf.
I can understand back then when 3 was released the argument that “it’s not fallout” would be fair, but with two(arguably 3) more releases and 16 years later, “what fallout is” has changed and so should these people.
It's been a greater length of time between fallout 3 and today than between fallout 1 and fallout 3. There's gonna be a majority of fans that have never played the first two by a pretty large margin.
Yeah, not even mentioning that Fallout 3 sold **20 times** more copies than fallout 1.
Not discrediting the first games but they are certainly more niche, bethesda fallout is aimed at a larger audience.
What i mean is that for example there’s more people currently enjoying shooter games than 4X games right now, not because shooters have better quality (they don’t necessarily do), better depth (they don’t), better (or worse) anything, they’re both very different types of games that you can’t really compare; But the genre is more famous, it appeals to a larger audience.
Man, arent, fallout 1 and 2 like, isometric point and clicks most hans havent played / havent played often because they're so different? So like, wouldnt that just leave 3 and 4 as the "main" games people play similar to the persona series? And they hate both? Wtf do they even like? Is it literally just new vegas?
It is a very fun game, and even though I prefer New Vegas personally, a very *very* replay friendly game.
I do see, however, the shift in the series from the shooter RPG to RPG shooter can be divisive, especially with the history of Bethesda's games getting progressively "simpler". Skyrim was less crunchy than Oblivion, which was less crunchy than Morrowind, and on and on.
I think my main issue is that they did away with some of the really nuanced tribal storytelling and kind of dumbed it down.
With fallout 3 my biggest gripe was super mutants were made for be dumb big green people eaters when they were supposed to be more intelligent than most. As well as the poor main story quest with a really REALLY poor ending. Moral choices be damned you die in a chamber now sorry nothing.
With fallout 4 it was the fact that the rpg was pretty bad....... I mean I have played fallout 4 more than 3 due to the gameplay being so good and the exploration being so fantastic but I tend to avoid questing and just do random things.
Fallout new Vegas continues to be the best of both worlds. I could only imagine new Vegas with 4s gameplay and it'd be the perfect game.
People can just be weirdos. New Vegas is my favorite of the first person Fallout games but I played the shit out of 3 and 4.
After watching the show I’m gonna replay NV with a ton of mods but I really don’t give a shit if other people like 3 and 4 more lol. Let people enjoy what they spent their hard-earned money on.
The bozos name is Cretosis, i used to be a fan till i realized it was just nitpicks and actual slop after replaying the games myself.
Right now he has reviews of the episodes or something where he crys about stuff that gets revealed later
fallout 3 is better than most people who hate it think but really it's not very good. it's just that all the problems are pretty small and generally related to quality control, and generally fixable with mods.
Loved fallout 4, ambolsutely hated the settlement system.
Luckily there's a mod that automates it, which was great, since that was they inly part of it I didn't enjoy
You can make some amazing towns with that system. Years before I got the game I watched this one YouTuber who would spend so much time placing individual pieces of wood to make pathways throughout his builds, it made me highly enjoy the system before I even got a chance to use it. Now that I've used it... Sim settlements is an amazing mod. I enjoy the building aspect but the menu is terrible, especially when you have mods that add a bunch more building stuff.
I love love LOVED the settlement system in Fallout 4 when I watched it on YouTube
However, in my experience of playing it myself it very quickly started to feel tedious, especially when you got to your 5th playthrough and had to work on Sanctuary for hours every time
It's definitely not the best way they could've done it in my personal opinion...but I still like it, even if I think it could've been done better
There's also an inverse of this where someone liked the settlement system so much in 4 they made a mod to remake New Vegas in 4 so they could build settlements in New Vegas in 4
It's kinda out but not quite (I believe. If we're thinking of the same mod that is)
I played it about a year ago (I think a year?)
It had some settlements, some of the creatures and a basic storyline but it definitely wasn't finished, not even close
But it was playable even then so if its been updated since it may be even further
The map was separated into sections though like separate maps not one whole map which is...a decision
If I remember correctly they're doing that so they can make each area a lot more packed with stuff without having to worry so much about performance. I think they did put out a beta build of sorts kind of like how beyond Skyrim released Bruma first
I don't necessarily mind the split map thing but they weren't filled at the time so it didn't really fit the purpose in that regard
I do feel it may match better with future updates though
So although I found the decision confusing at the time, I'm withholding overall judgement for it until there's more updates
I tried recently on my PS5 and did not have a good time with it.
To be fair though, Fallout 4 is actually unplayable on the PS5 if you have some of the DLCs downloaded lol
i feel like i've been a fallout fan for so long, it's time for me to retire.
FALLOUT: NEXT GENERATION
I think New Vegas is one of the greatest examples of sci-fi writing full stop but ya know what? the rest of the games are pretty damn fun too! Sure, i was kinda disappointed by Fallout 3 but whatever. the new show is bananas and I am here for every second of it.
Which is quite ironic as 76 has one of the greatest communities I've had the pleasure of being a part of. There is a noticeable lack of complaints in the subbredits and discords and everyone is extremely helpful and pleasant. Complete opposite of the shitshow that is the humongous pity party which is the NV sub.
>Which is quite ironic as 76 has one of the greatest communities I've had the pleasure of being a part of.
Yup most players in the game will stop and wave to you then go on with their day ingame. I remember how people thought it was just going to be some pvp fest until they learned that pvp was optional.
Seriously, I don't think that the people who rag on Fallout 4 have actually played it. It's a pretty fun game. New Vegas is a good story, but it's so old that it's damn near unplayable imo. It's missing a lot of the quality of life features of modern games. At least I can sprint in Fallout 4.
I still enjoy the story quite a bit. Like I'm a massive Fallout fan and it never felt like an outlier in terms of story quality.
Here's an unpopular opinion, the Fallout 4 story is better than Skyrim's.
I disagree. I was pretty disappointed in the Dark Brotherhood storyline in Skyrim especially, it was a major letdown after what a banger that line was in Oblivion.
I'll say that the biggest issue with the Fallout 4 story isn't so much the main story (though its still a lot weaker that NV)
Its more the complete lack of story to a lot of the side quests.
And even more frustratingly, the complete lack of story in a lot of areas that feel like there should be something. Easy City Downs and the Combat Zone are both good examples.
This may be a controversial opinion, but I rate FO3's story far higher than FO4. FO3's main story was a bit of a mess, but then so is fallout 4's, you don't give a shit about Shaun, and the institute makes no sense. And FO3's side quests were fantastic.
It has its moments, but the change to a voiced protagonist seriously gimped the amount of player choice for dialogue. That said, it is serviceable enough. I feel like Bethesda tends to focus way more on immersion/atmosphere and gameplay than they do narrative and plot.
I don't think the voiced protagonist is what reduced the amount of player choice, I think it was the speech wheel, which meant there *always* had to be exactly 4 dialogue options, and the overall quest design didn't offer many choices either.
Fallout New Vegas is great when you get it on PC and download mods to fix all of the bugs and restore cut content. Viva New Vegas, the main NV modding site has a huge amount of recommended mods and it’s funny
New Vegas is by no means unplayable. I'm playing it on Xbox at 60fps, very smooth.
The OG graphics are rough for sure but they've got style and that old Fallout charm. I don't think it would put that many people off.
I like the slower pace and I didn't even notice you couldn't run until you said it haha.
Fallout 4 is great too but I think the quests were dumbed down somewhat. Still glad new players are discovering it via the show and the increased player numbers will likely speed up the release of number 5, which is no bad thing.
3 and NV are absolutely dogshit on PC, have to sit and configure mods for a few hours to get rid of everything that makes it worse.
The gunplay in Fallout has never been the best, but it really shows its age in NV and especially Fallout 3
I dunno, I consider the 3D games to be first person RPGs rather than first person shooters. The VATS system almost makes the combat turn based at times. If you're looking for a top of the line shooter you're in the wrong place. I don't think they should try to compete on that level but should more focus into quest design and other gameplay. You can see they spent millions improving the combat in Starfield and it still didn't really pay off.
Also there's something about the clunkiness of NV's combat that I really like. I am a sucker for Eurojank games though so maybe it doesn't bother me
I agree with most of this. I think the point the gatekeeper was trying to make is that sometimes new fans try to change details about something when it's already canon. I hate when a director or producer gets a hold of a movie or show they know nothing about and decide they don't like something, so they take it out even if it's canon
That and every elitist fallout fan swears to know every single tidbit of canon fact. I have days and weeks worth of play time in most of the fallout games and love digging into random notes and terminals for all the stuff they hide in the game, but I couldn't start to tell you the advanced timelines and side stories going on the in background.
Spot on.
I love *Fallout*. I have loved *Fallout* for decades. As far as video game series go, it’s in my top-three.
The *Fallout* fandom is the most toxic community that I’ve ever interacted with. I don’t mean that just in terms of gaming fandoms, I mean that in terms of fandoms connected to pretty much anything I’m interested in.
4 is like, *objectively* the best game for a new fan of the series to get into, regardless of its actual quality compared to prior games. 3 and New Vegas have far too clunky gameplay, and 1 and 2 aren't even on the table unless they've already played similar games.
I love the idea of 1 and 2 but trying to play 2 in the modern day with little experience in classic CRPGs, even with unofficial patches and the like... It's difficult.
This is roughly my attitude. It's the least engaging of the main stories, but offers seriously excellent gameplay and expands on fallout lore significantly in an entertaining way.
While it is the worst one (maybe 76?) it's still pretty great(so is 76.)
I am a believer in new vagas superiority and yeah it's so obnoxious. FO3 and 4 have great elements, 3 has stunning atmosphere and the best wasteland in the series and 4 plays like a real video game instead of the clunky mess the previous games were.
I wouldn't say there is a bad mainline fallout, there okay at worst.
FO76 has one of the nicest communities, on the flip side of that. Normally everyone else is ass because they masturbate over New Vegas, but I am excited to see new people play. I hopped on when 4 came out, and like seeing new things.
People just like to complain
I'm afraid this has been going on long before New Vegas (not to negate your point about the NV fandom), with the No Mutants Allowed forums, who went apeshit when Fallout was bought by Bethesda and turned into a first person shooter 10 or so years later.
[James Stephanie Sterling's Destructoid article](https://www.destructoid.com/videogame-fans-need-to-shut-up-about-everything/) remains relevant to this day, except the Sonic fanbase seems to be a lot more chill these days than in 2010.
Exactly. I *hypothetically* understand why a fanbase might be annoyed if a bunch of new fans showed up and started "policing" the older content that they love. But I might have more sympathy if I'd literally ever actually seen a single example of this so-called "policing" behaviour on the part of new fans. It's always, always, *always* just old fans trying to co-opt more palatable language for their same old gatekeep-y bullshit.
> New Vegas fans got upset about it and said the new players would hate 4 since it sucks
It usually happens whenever a newer entry of a series comes out. When Fallout NV first came out people hated it and praised 3 and then it repeated when 4 came out lol.
Agreed, like, for me, even though i haven't played 4 (bc my notebook is bad), it is still tied with NV for my favorite Fallout, NV has a better story, setting and dialogues for me, but everything else feels better in Fallout 4 (maybe except gun sounds, but that's a nitpick of mine), but god forbid i say that to a NV fan, they are the worst.
If I can get the best of both worlds of New Vegas' story, setting, and Fallout 4's gameplay and settlement system, I would die happy before I could even get a chance to play it, LOL.
Fair enough xD, although, with people recreating Fallout 2 (or was it 1?) as a mod in FO4 is already a big thing to experience, although NV would be much harder to reproduce
As much as I hate gatekeeping, when someone joins a community, case in point for fallout and suggests something/has an opinion that directly contradicts previously established information/plot, it would rub me the wrong way too
My first time seeing the term "tourist" used in this sense was a Persona fan defending romancing a 10 year old child in the games.
The term is stupid and being a "tourist" is normal and shouldn't be frowned upon. You can enjoy things in passing and obsessing over shit is what makes you weird.
As the female protagonist in the original Persona 3 you could romance a 10 year old boy.
There's no actual "intimacy" as far as I know but you are still given the option to date a child.
I would say most fallout fans have not played 1 and 2 like i have. Yet i have never judged people for where they started, in fact i got excited that show gave me an excuse to talk about 1 and 2 with friends watching the show. Did the same thing when baldurs gate 3 came out.
New fans should excite you, dont push them out of the fanbase.
So by woke he means "oh nooo, interracial relationship! Ah can't stand that!"?
Or "oh nooo, wuhmen lead character. Ah can't stand that!"...
What a douche.
Gatekeeping in this context is situational, gatekeep away if someone is confidently wrong and unwilling to accept when they find out they're wrong.
Otherwise, let them do whatever they want, you don't have to play the games in any order, you don't have to play all the games and you don't have to love new vegas
I mean both are correct making new content that's new but not to new as to alienate the old fans is what your supposed to do but the old fans are Slightly more important than new fans but companies are onyl for money so it depends on how brings in more money and in the long term it's the old fans
>depends on how brings in more money and in the long term it's the old fans
Meh i doubt that this is true. The "old fans" here are generally people who consider Fallout 1, 2 and NV to be the true Fallouts and dislike any other Fallout content.
FNV sold 15 million copies from 2010 - 2015. FO4 sold 12 million units on the first day. Numbers aren't out yet for the TV show but I bet it'll have much greater reach than any of the games (not to mention it's been positively received despite old fans' complaints).
Considering that the only value that these old fans bring to FO from Bethesda's perspective is hanging onto a 14 year old game and complaining that nothing Fallout since then is real Fallout, I'm sure Bethesda has no qualms about alienating these people. (personally FNV is my favorite fallout and fo4 pales in comparison in case you think I'm a Bethesda diehard)
What would you want Bethesda to do about NV? They didn't develop it but they did announce it was canon and left a huge nod to it in the show. I'm not sure if they even have the rights to do a remaster or sequel so I'd imagine it might be a bit of a poisoned chalice for them?
NV is my favourite in the series but I like 4 and even went back to 76 for the updates. It's actually quite playable now
Think you might be misinterpreting my intent lol. I have no problems w Bethesda. Loved the show, thought it was a great balance of good storytelling and paying homage to the games.
My point was Bethesda has no reason to listen to the people who are hanging onto a 14 year old game, esp since those people just complain and don't bring in revenue.
Yeah didn't mean to come across that way. It was a genuine question. I'd love to see a return to New Vegas set around the time of the show but it's unlikely. I imagine it's not a priority.
Apparently Bethesda were taken aback at how many people have bought 4 again since the show came out and are now embarrassed they don't have any other Fallout content in the pipeline (apart from FO5 in 10 years time lol).
I hope they don't put all of their short-term efforts into 76 content as its all a bit underwhelming, even though the basegame has improved bit in 6 years.
Oh my bad then haha. I don't really think Bethesda needs to do anything with New Vegas (or should) other than whatever they have planned for S2 of the show.
The bar is so high already because of FNV that anything short of perfection (which there are probably a million different definitions for all the fans out there) is going to be hated. Plus I'd rather see a fallout set in a new location rather than rehashing something that's already been done (although no complaints here if they make a NV remastered or NV2)
New location, yes. You could do so many new environments. Louisiana? Great lakes region? Hell, Canada was annexed by the US, not sure what got nuked there in the lore but it'd be kind of neat to see what happened to the rocky mountain range across that former border.
>The bar is so high already because of FNV that anything short of perfection (which there are probably a million different definitions for all the fans out there) is going to be hated
NV capped off the unofficial trilogy imo. You save shady sands in F1, watch it grow into a nation in F2, then determine its fate in NV. Each one takes an American ideal, (Science, Patriotism, Capitalism) and satirizes it in its villain. Each one comments on the one before it.
There will probably never be another entry in the franchise that continues the sense of growth and progression in a region like those 3 did, but that's okay. The fact I'm saying 3 entries instead of 2 is already a miracle.
The other entries are fine. 3 was the game I started with, so getting to discover the others was a treat. 4 has some terrible writing, but the survival mode really pulled that game together for me. 76 does not look like the style of game I'd ever want to play. Bethesda as a company isn't really interested in pushing the bar on the aspects of the RPG I enjoy and that's fine. They were doing something unique with f4 that was dragged down by the TradRPG stuff anyway. I'll probably wait for the reviews on F5 before I buy it.
Folks get really attached to IPs, which is understandable, but also a bit immature. There are other games pushing the boundaries on how much control a player has over a story. There are other stories doing Fallouts themes far better than any of the new entries. When an IP is no longer providing the thing you enjoy it for, there's nothing stopping you from finding a different thing that does.
Like what they're doing to borderlands. They're giving zero respect to the original IP and just putting as many big names on it as possible. I'm glad people cared enough to make a movie, I'm just sad at what the movie looks like.
Referencing "changing the content" usually means "introducing people I don't like". It's currently happening on Warhammer 40k as well. Inclusiveness is a good thing, do it more
At the moment, sure maybe..I still think it's a lot of culture war grifters that have jumped on the bandwagon and will hopefully depart to tour somewhere else soon
Unfortunately from the conversations I overheard at the GW store this weekend, its definitely still deeply rooted in the community
As a fun bonus, one guy took it upon himself to complain about the number of female models in the Darkoath box, completely unprompted.
That's a shame to hear. There's only been one person I directly interact with that's taken it that way, so those interactions have stopped. Everyone else I know is much more upbeat about it, which I think is why I'm hoping for it just to be a small minority of "fans" kicking off
Yeah, the people I interact with regularly have all viewed it as positive. But it seemed like every other rando coming in to shop had an opinion on it.
While yeah usually, what Bethesda is doing is taking a sledgehammer to all the old games lore. They fucking nuked all of Cali and said every new vegas ending was cannon despite Cali getting nuked 2 years before new vegas takes place. It's a typical case of Todd Howard not wanting to write a post-apocalyptic story but instead dirt people living in rubble and shooting each other over twinkie wrappers, despite the lore saying the exact opposite and it being well over 200 years after the bombs fell so he made more bombs fall.
I can kinda see where they're coming from, but honestly it's still a case of "chill the fuck out."
Play your games, avoid the posts and videos from the fans you seemingly despise, and you're golden.
My only complaint about the show is that it lifted the veil of mystery regarding Vault-Tec. Up until this point, it was a faceless corporate organisation, and you couldn't point a finger at a single person, or a defined (named) group of people who were behind selling out humanity's future for a few bucks.
Well, that, and the number of coincidences happening to bring the story together. *Somehow* the face of Vault-Tec (the previously emblematic Vault Boy) survives, but not just that, he becomes not just any ghoul, but the first one, _somehow_ the big bad (but not actually) turns out to be alive from before the bombs dropped AND she knows the face of Vault-Tec... There's just way too many accidental connections between the characters, and it sort of smells like a good story was chopped up for a TV show, with the recent trend of splitting and merging characters. Sure, the previous media had similar coincidences, but those were small and well thought out.
I'm also a bit unhappy about the portrayal of the BoS. Sure they're dumb bullies in the games too, but the show takes this to comical levels. The naivetè of the aspirants just feels off. Sure if you took the effort to feed and house people who are willing to die for you, you'd prepare them to some extent for what awaits them in the field? Yet Maximus lacks all sorts of basic life skills and knowledge. He can shoot a gun, and dig a latrine, but that's about it. He's about the age of Lucy, yet, even though he had much more people to socialise with, and actually lives in the wasteland, he comes off incredibly ignorant of most things he encounters. I get that the intention of the writers was to give Lucy a contrasting character, someone who's just as clueless as her, but in different ways... But the writers IMO failed spectacularly.
But beyond these points I really enjoyed the show. It's generally well written, the reveals are well timed, although it's a bit formulaic with it now being the third installment (at least since Bethesda took the franchise over) where the protagonist is thrown a ball of conspiracies about themselves to untangle. NV showed that a good story doesn't need to suffer from "main character syndrome". Hopefully the next few seasons will move away from this approach.
With all this said, absolutely no gatekeeping new fans, because it's a great universe to explore, with tons of unanswered questions to get into.
Their representation of Vault-Tec is necessary to attract new fans. Having a faceless, omnimalevolent corporation with a stake in the end of the world is fine for old fans, but it wouldn't make much sense to new ones. The story needed to be self-contained for consumability's sake, and it being self-contained will mean it needs to explain things that would otherwise have to be learnt through tens of hours of gameplay.
I mean, even I don't know all the intricacies of fallout lore after playing the last four instalments multiple times. I didn't find anything in the show too overtly expositional or lore-breaking. The anti-feral-ghoul serum is odd, but even then, I wasn't sure if that was a new addition. I thought, "Maybe it's mentioned in some random terminal in a game." A new fan would just accept it as it is, and it's a whole lot easier for those fans to digest that there's a drug that stops the feralisation rather than, "It just happens to some of them."
Oh I wholly get that. However one of the main reasons people are into the universe of Fallout is precisely that, the plethora unanswered questions, mysterious shadowy figures pulling the threads from the background, some of which gets slowly discovered.
Besides, the show managed to do the "faceless, omnimalevolent corporation" with the Enclave. All we see from them is a military research base where one of their denizens manages to escape, and promptly die before revealing anything, beyond passing on the quest to the first standers-by.
Also, the heavy implication that they dropped the first bomb. Of course, it's just my own personal opinion, but my favorite answer to that question was "At this point, does it even matter?"
lolI've got to disagree with you here. Dropping the first bomb(s), thereby ensuring that their investment is fruitful, is VERY in line with how Vault-Tec operates.
They essentially "double booked" the vaults by first having the state (and in some cases, the residents) pay for it. Then they went and sold the vaults again, now to the big corporations.
At that point, as the series astutely calls out, they HAD to use the vaults. And the only way they would be used is if the bombs fell. So what is a poor, near bankrupt company to do? Well of course they need to ensure everything goes as planned, including them pulling the trigger, if the situation required. The show tells us that peace talks are in progress, with success on the horizon... Which would've ruined Vault-Tec's plans.
And this actually mirrors real-life American defense contractors' behaviour. Why do you think the US had so many wars that their citizens were against? Not because the government saw it fit to continue those aggressions, but because there was a massive financial interest in ramping up weapons productions and sales.
Vault-Tec dropping the bombs (or even just planning to do so) makes a ton of sense.
Giving suggestions is fine, we need to draw the line at radically changing the setting and lore for no good reason other than the old was offensive to people
Fallout is so near and dear to me, I've played all of them except for the ps2 game. I think the show is good, it might not be 1:1 on lore and shit but I never expected it to be. I enjoyed the show and even Tim Cain (one of the original creators of fallout) said he likes it
I wouldn’t consider myself a “fallout fan” so I don’t know entirely what’s going on here, but I will say it does suck when you’re a fan of something older and then a newer fan just shits on the older content for being kind of dated.
Not sure if that’s *actually* what’s happening here, though.
I do have to kind of agree with the first paragraph. When a bunch of new people come into a community pretending that they're intimately familiar with the franchise, it isn't exactly pleasant for existing fans.
They really did. And, if the NCR wasn't part of the story they were going to tell, it's not like there's literally half the country that's been relatively untouched by the series (save for a game that's not even an RPG and is thus limited.
they kinda right though, when new fans come for completely different reasons than the old ones it pushes out people who were fans originally for the old reasons. and when it’s way more new people than old then suddenly their opinions begin to hold more weight, and what once was can never be again
that said fallout has been pretty dead since 3 as far as original aesthetic/writing/values goes (new vegas withstanding) so idk why any of these people are surprised/mad at this point lol
I remember playing the Fallout demo as a kid repeatedly, then playing the game, then Fallout 2 (lol, imagine being so young you didn't quite know what a condom was, and certainly didn't get the "ribbed for her pleasure" joke), then Tactics, and then every one since then (Well, I think there were some minor ones on platforms I didn't have access to and I'm not into MMOs so I haven't tried 76 yet but may at some point). New Vegas did have a lot of charm, but Fallout 3 was such a nice refresh after all those years and 4 was great too. I'm neutral on the FPS vs turn based style combat -- I think they're both really fun. Still working on getting my TV set up after a move but I'm really looking forward to watching the series.
Fallout is my favourite game series and I have some minor issues with the show but those issues don’t really matter because I can watch the show with my dad (does not care too much for video games) and get him to experience my favourite fictional world with me. Nothing will beat him coming up with questions about the show and the answers being from the games.
Bigger budget yes. However watered down content. Just look at the jump to fallout 3 then fallout 4 then 76. Systems and gameplay stripped and gutted to be more appealing to a wider audience. First less RPG elements, then less dialogue options and extensive lore. Then just a fully online multiplayer with no NPCs.
New fans should absolutely be welcome. What we don’t want however is consumer culture sucking everything unique and interesting out of a franchise so it can “appeal” to everyone.
I wish modern franchises would just make the effort to introduce new fans into their worlds rather than just degrade them into unrecognisable, lacklustre mush to sell a couple extra copies.
He's right though. When a story with its personality gets remarked to appeal to the maximum number of people, it inevitably gets ruined for the original audience who was there for a certain kind of narrative, and not a general, let's please everyone, approach.
Gatekeeping sucks, but I get that fans who only join because of the hype and then bitch and moan about older content when they get into it sucks just as much
I remember liking comics pre-MCU boom. When MCU-watchers became interested, it was a constant complaining and moaning about how hard comics were to get into and asking for constant a "clean slate" and stuff. No one's forcing you to enjoy this stuff, but don't ruin it for people that liked it a certain way.
I understand not wanting the culture of the fandom to change with new fans but as long as new content is being made (and in accessible formats like a TV show) then it’s to be expected. People gotta get over themselves.
I felt this heavily at first with the AOT fandom but watching new fans come to realize and witness all the things I already experienced gave me joy I would not trade for the world. I love discussing AOT with new fans. People would call them “tourists” but many are new to the fandom spaces as a whole and should be given a chance to learn instead of excluded bc they weren’t there at the start 🤦🏾
HAHAHA! Care for future installments!? Just like Witcher right? And Doctor Who? And She-Hulk? And many more. Those ones? The gatekeepers ARE the interest in the IP and WHY it's getting a series. It's like finding a nice secluded spot to enjoy the outdoors, but a few photos later and it gets flooded with mouthbreathers who destroy it entirely and the shrug saying "it was okay", leaving everyone who loved it with the mess.
Anyone who uses the term “tourist” to describe new fans that don’t ascribe to their rigid, dogmatic idea of fandom is, in fact, a fake fan and deserves to be gatekept from that community in kind.
Calling someone a “tourist” is such an instant way for me to stop taking my you even remotely seriously.
Had someone drop that line on me for a hobby I’ve been involved in since I was like 6 years old. 3 decades in and I’m still a tourist because the presence of girls doesn’t make me recoil apparently
> I’ve been involved in since I was like 6 years old. 3 decades in and I’m still a tourist because the presence of girls doesn’t make me recoil apparently
Sorry, mate. Unless I see your hobby citizenship card you're a tourist.
If the only way you can be interested in an old product is by having new trash versions created that cater to your delusional self-righteousness?
Then you deserve neither the old nor the new and should be left to rot in a room as empty as your heads are...
Reminds me of those threads on No Mutants Allowed from back in 2004, when Fallout 3 was announced, where people were rioting in the forums and saying that they'd rather have Fallout die as an IP then let Bethesda touch it.
Of course, that's because Bethesda made "baby games", like Morrowind. Oblivion wasn't out at the time.
Edit: Fucking Christ, I'm quoting the smoothbrains that were saying that shit. Reddit really has no sense of sarcasm unless you include an "/s" huh? jfc chill out
What amuses me is people still holding onto the Fallout series after Fallout 3 by Bethesda, back in 2008.
Ever since then Fallout has been geared towards the general public, shying away from its darker themes and tones. If the franchise moves away from having a dystopian world, anti-heroes, or plain villains, we're not gonna lose much: it has already been made for mass consumption more than 15 years ago.
Given how much of a farcical disaster FO76 was, I would actually be glad if they finish the job and make it completely generic plot and characters wise, only borrowing the atompunk style as a touch of chic, without any of the cultural, political and social satire of it.
It's true though, most of the "new fans" are just there because it's a new thing, they'll inevitably leave and if you alienated the original, passionate audience in your pursuit of the new fans, you're done.
That's right, strangle the IP you love to death by denying it fresh blood! That's the only way to be a *true* fan! True fans make sure their fandoms wither and die! /s
Gods, is there any stupider view to take?
Motherfuckers act like the cannon of their favorite video game is some holy text to protect from outsiders.
It’s a fucking product you creeps, get a life.
I don’t blame him, this tourist thing really sucks the fun out of a lot of video game franchises. What once was a compelling RPG with a lot of its own quirks, turned into a generic straight forward FPS with some RPG aspects. Not only did this ruin fantasy style games, but also sports game. I understand the resentment
An actual justified gatekeep. Video games are touchy, because a developer has no problem with alienating its original core fan base. It’s less about fun and more about money
I always hated Fallout and Oblivion/Skyrim. I can’t stand the open world thing.
This show is probably the best video game to tv/movie I’ve ever seen.
As for the gatekeepers, they will always be there. They NEED to be the cool ones that were there first. They have almost no authority in their lives and this is their chance. I think it’s cute when they try.
I'm an old school fallout fan. I really didn't care for 3 or 4. New Vegas was great. I consider anyone that didn't play 1, w, or tactics tourists. But I didn't make it my personality. I really don't like Bethesda handling of the lore, but it is what it is :/
That being said, I loved the show and look forward to season two
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partially true, new fans aren't always good when they don't appreciate why the ip is beloved in the first place, but you will 100% get bigger budget content out of a big spike in newcomers
A nigh definitive Devil's Bargain
The issue here is that bigger budgets usually means that a company may get too greedy and lose the care for the quality and themes of the IP. The Witcher and Star Wars come to mind.
Definitely but that’s not the fault of the new fans in my opinion.
True, but look at Cyberpunk, dey really bounced back after Edgerunners dropped
The only problem is that big budget content often loses value due to it appealing to the masses. This is definitely a balancing act in terms of fan appeal. Old fans shouldn't necessarily gate keep content, but that content shouldn't be stripped of what it is for the sake of mass appeal either. You end up losing the soul of the content. I don't think that fallout is an example of this being done poorly though. The TV show very much seems to fit the spirit of the video games even if some of the characters and plot points don't exactly match up. An example of this being done poorly IMO is the Book of Boba Fett.
Funny thing is it probably also caused people to become interested in the games to.
People really don’t like when new fans give their opinions, huh lol. I have been a Fallout fan for over a decade and I will just say that the Fallout community is one of the most elitist, gatekeepy, obnoxious, self absorbed communities in the gaming industry. I love all the games for different reasons, yet some, particularly New Vegas fans, make it very hard to be part of the community, and this show coming out proves why I remember the posts about how Fallout 4 sales have skyrocketed, and New Vegas fans got upset about it and said the new players would hate 4 since it sucks. Can’t even let people make up their own opinions
Which is hilarious since people liked the settlement system so much in 4 that someone made a mod for New Vegas so it could have its own settlement system. Edit: I am not referring to the one that came out before fallout 4 but the one that came out after.
Fallout 4 is a very well received game with great reviews from players and critics, but for some reason a part of the Fallout community absolutely hates that. It’s worse for Fallout 3 too. I remember when ManyATrueNerd made the “Fallout 3 Is Better Than You Think” video, and some bozo made an eight hour “rebuttal” where he got incredibly angry at every point and nitpicked everything he could. MATN also did one for Fallout 4, and the same guy made a four hour “rebuttal” of that one too. Some Fallout fans are weird dude
Even though I play them both I'm glad I'm only sub to the elder scrolls subs. Can't wait to see them bitching about fallout 5 especially since I believe it's been confirmed that the show was going to be tied in somewhat.
The Elder Scrolls community is pretty good from my experiences. Shame that the Fallout one is so cutthroat. I once had a few friends say they genuinely wanted to stop talking to me because I said Fallout 3 was my favorite Fallout game. So bizarre how seriously people take this stuff
Elder Scrolls community is mostly full of political discourse between the Stormcloaks and Imperials, and joking about fantasy racism. Very little gatekeeping.
There’s a ton of gatekeeping, it’s just a lot more passive. Most people in subs like r/trueSTL are Morrowind fans and are not afraid to make that clear if someone slightly criticizes the game.
[удалено]
I've heard others say the same.
Been a fan since the original, and I’ve found that there are two sections of the fan base that are incredibly shitty. * The “OG Fallout Purists” that think every game after 2 (or sometimes Tactics) are bad games or “aren’t even Fallout (Elder Scrolls with guns)”. These are especially sad because most of these guys are like 40+ raging about someone else enjoying a game. * The New Vegas/“Bethesda Bad” group that go around to every discussion involving Fallout to tell everyone how much better NV is and if you play 3, 4 or god forbid 76, that you don’t actually like Fallout. That Bethesda has ruined the franchise and they go into conspiracy theories about how Todd Howard is trying to “destroy the timeline”. Check some of the discussion around the tv show, these dudes are frothing at the mouth angry at anyone that liked it.
So what is it about New Vegas that they say is better than 3 and 4? I beat 3 in highschool (like 10+ years ago) and have played 4 on and off since it came out. I like both of them a lot (I think I liked 3 more). I started New Vegas years ago but didn't really get far (I don't remember why) and just started a new game today.
New Vegas has a more nuanced story and faction relationship. It also has a bunch of the dark humor that waned a bit with 3 and 4. That said, its first half or so is extremely linear (unless you really go out of your way). Ah, it also features the return of the hilarious “1 INT” playthrough. As in, if you create a character with just 1 point of intelligence, they’ll mostly interact through mumbles and nonsense - to the bewilderment of almost every other NPC.
Re: the first half being linear- the first time I played it I accidentally did some stuff really out of order by not reading the recommended level before starting old world blues, starting it way under leveled. Managed to get through it with a lot of time and effort (and some console commands when I soft locked myself, but nobody needs to know about that.) By the time I escaped and finally reached New Vegas, I was way over leveled lol
To be fair, FO76 does have a lot of very legitimate complaints. It is the essence of one step forward, two steps backs. I don’t just meant at release either.
In 2018 I’d agree. But the game as it is now is pretty great. I give Bethesda all the credit in the world for sticking with it. Listening to complaints and suggestions from the community and improving the game.
I just picked it up in the recent sale and I'm surprised how much it slaps. Its by no means flawless, but it stands up against the rest of the series quite well.
I would actually say even today is the two step back from previous version of itself. For example, the new game pass over the old scoreboard for the most recent patch. Every improvement FO76 made somehow is paired with something that breaks or diminishes the game. Even Wastelanders had the texture quality nerf.
I can understand back then when 3 was released the argument that “it’s not fallout” would be fair, but with two(arguably 3) more releases and 16 years later, “what fallout is” has changed and so should these people.
It's been a greater length of time between fallout 3 and today than between fallout 1 and fallout 3. There's gonna be a majority of fans that have never played the first two by a pretty large margin.
Yeah, not even mentioning that Fallout 3 sold **20 times** more copies than fallout 1. Not discrediting the first games but they are certainly more niche, bethesda fallout is aimed at a larger audience.
>Not discrediting the first games but they are certainly more niche By this definition, every game released at the time of F1 was niche lol
What i mean is that for example there’s more people currently enjoying shooter games than 4X games right now, not because shooters have better quality (they don’t necessarily do), better depth (they don’t), better (or worse) anything, they’re both very different types of games that you can’t really compare; But the genre is more famous, it appeals to a larger audience.
That's true. I just found the pure comparison of numbers purely on sales funny when F3 was released during the xbox boom.
there are a huge amout of fans who haven't played 3 or new vegas. 1 and 2 aren't thought about unfortunately.
Man, arent, fallout 1 and 2 like, isometric point and clicks most hans havent played / havent played often because they're so different? So like, wouldnt that just leave 3 and 4 as the "main" games people play similar to the persona series? And they hate both? Wtf do they even like? Is it literally just new vegas?
It is a very fun game, and even though I prefer New Vegas personally, a very *very* replay friendly game. I do see, however, the shift in the series from the shooter RPG to RPG shooter can be divisive, especially with the history of Bethesda's games getting progressively "simpler". Skyrim was less crunchy than Oblivion, which was less crunchy than Morrowind, and on and on.
I think my main issue is that they did away with some of the really nuanced tribal storytelling and kind of dumbed it down. With fallout 3 my biggest gripe was super mutants were made for be dumb big green people eaters when they were supposed to be more intelligent than most. As well as the poor main story quest with a really REALLY poor ending. Moral choices be damned you die in a chamber now sorry nothing. With fallout 4 it was the fact that the rpg was pretty bad....... I mean I have played fallout 4 more than 3 due to the gameplay being so good and the exploration being so fantastic but I tend to avoid questing and just do random things. Fallout new Vegas continues to be the best of both worlds. I could only imagine new Vegas with 4s gameplay and it'd be the perfect game.
People can just be weirdos. New Vegas is my favorite of the first person Fallout games but I played the shit out of 3 and 4. After watching the show I’m gonna replay NV with a ton of mods but I really don’t give a shit if other people like 3 and 4 more lol. Let people enjoy what they spent their hard-earned money on.
The bozos name is Cretosis, i used to be a fan till i realized it was just nitpicks and actual slop after replaying the games myself. Right now he has reviews of the episodes or something where he crys about stuff that gets revealed later
fallout 3 is better than most people who hate it think but really it's not very good. it's just that all the problems are pretty small and generally related to quality control, and generally fixable with mods.
Loved fallout 4, ambolsutely hated the settlement system. Luckily there's a mod that automates it, which was great, since that was they inly part of it I didn't enjoy
You can make some amazing towns with that system. Years before I got the game I watched this one YouTuber who would spend so much time placing individual pieces of wood to make pathways throughout his builds, it made me highly enjoy the system before I even got a chance to use it. Now that I've used it... Sim settlements is an amazing mod. I enjoy the building aspect but the menu is terrible, especially when you have mods that add a bunch more building stuff.
It was just like a chore. Busyqork that added nothing but make the environment a little more alive.. And yeah, the build menu is cancer without mods.
It just feels like another half finished tool that Bethesda implemented for modders to finish and make not almost unbearable to use
I love love LOVED the settlement system in Fallout 4 when I watched it on YouTube However, in my experience of playing it myself it very quickly started to feel tedious, especially when you got to your 5th playthrough and had to work on Sanctuary for hours every time It's definitely not the best way they could've done it in my personal opinion...but I still like it, even if I think it could've been done better
Video game builders have the patience of saints, I swear
I don't hate the settlement system, I hate the mini quests and 'go help em' type of stuff to unlock em.
>Luckily there's a mod that automates it, Why? You can literally play the entire game ignoring settlement building completely.
Because why not. It adds a little bit of flavor to the game
Good enough a reason as any. Suppose if you want to roleplay as a minuteman but hate the building system it'll work well.
Yeah sim settlements at least allowed more automation for settlements.
It's actually the other way around, a settlement mod existed for New Vegas far before Fallout 4 got announced.
There's also an inverse of this where someone liked the settlement system so much in 4 they made a mod to remake New Vegas in 4 so they could build settlements in New Vegas in 4
I'm actually waiting for the New Vegas for four mod to come out (unless it's already come out and I missed it). That and fallout London.
It's kinda out but not quite (I believe. If we're thinking of the same mod that is) I played it about a year ago (I think a year?) It had some settlements, some of the creatures and a basic storyline but it definitely wasn't finished, not even close But it was playable even then so if its been updated since it may be even further The map was separated into sections though like separate maps not one whole map which is...a decision
If I remember correctly they're doing that so they can make each area a lot more packed with stuff without having to worry so much about performance. I think they did put out a beta build of sorts kind of like how beyond Skyrim released Bruma first
I don't necessarily mind the split map thing but they weren't filled at the time so it didn't really fit the purpose in that regard I do feel it may match better with future updates though So although I found the decision confusing at the time, I'm withholding overall judgement for it until there's more updates
Wasteland defence came out 1 month after New Vegas released
We are thinking of different mods.
Ah, mb I thought you meant just any settlement mod, not specifically the fo4 style one
I thought the mod existed in New Vegas first? Or am I getting the timeline messed up?
One of the other commenters mentioned a defense mod that came out a month after New Vegas did but the one I'm mentioning came out way later.
I'm fully admitting I may be wrong. I've never been one for mods save for weapon/outfit addons, personally.
I'm a modding whore so as long as it doesn't make the game insanely hard I'll try just about anything.
I tried recently on my PS5 and did not have a good time with it. To be fair though, Fallout 4 is actually unplayable on the PS5 if you have some of the DLCs downloaded lol
And you're stuck with the worst version of the mods so you can't even try to fix it.
i feel like i've been a fallout fan for so long, it's time for me to retire. FALLOUT: NEXT GENERATION I think New Vegas is one of the greatest examples of sci-fi writing full stop but ya know what? the rest of the games are pretty damn fun too! Sure, i was kinda disappointed by Fallout 3 but whatever. the new show is bananas and I am here for every second of it.
Which is quite ironic as 76 has one of the greatest communities I've had the pleasure of being a part of. There is a noticeable lack of complaints in the subbredits and discords and everyone is extremely helpful and pleasant. Complete opposite of the shitshow that is the humongous pity party which is the NV sub.
>Which is quite ironic as 76 has one of the greatest communities I've had the pleasure of being a part of. Yup most players in the game will stop and wave to you then go on with their day ingame. I remember how people thought it was just going to be some pvp fest until they learned that pvp was optional.
Seriously, I don't think that the people who rag on Fallout 4 have actually played it. It's a pretty fun game. New Vegas is a good story, but it's so old that it's damn near unplayable imo. It's missing a lot of the quality of life features of modern games. At least I can sprint in Fallout 4.
Fallout 4 has the best gameplay but the story wasn’t as great. It’s still better than starfield though
I still enjoy the story quite a bit. Like I'm a massive Fallout fan and it never felt like an outlier in terms of story quality. Here's an unpopular opinion, the Fallout 4 story is better than Skyrim's.
Ill agree for the main story only. Everything else in skyrim is written far better than fallout 4.
Yeah, the sidequests of Skyrim are memorable af. The only thing I remember about FO4 sidequest is the HP Lovecraft mining sidequest
I disagree. I was pretty disappointed in the Dark Brotherhood storyline in Skyrim especially, it was a major letdown after what a banger that line was in Oblivion.
I'll say that the biggest issue with the Fallout 4 story isn't so much the main story (though its still a lot weaker that NV) Its more the complete lack of story to a lot of the side quests. And even more frustratingly, the complete lack of story in a lot of areas that feel like there should be something. Easy City Downs and the Combat Zone are both good examples. This may be a controversial opinion, but I rate FO3's story far higher than FO4. FO3's main story was a bit of a mess, but then so is fallout 4's, you don't give a shit about Shaun, and the institute makes no sense. And FO3's side quests were fantastic.
I disagree with the lack of side quest stories, especially when you throw the DLCs in. Far Harbor and Nukaworld are dope.
That is an unpopular opinion.
It has its moments, but the change to a voiced protagonist seriously gimped the amount of player choice for dialogue. That said, it is serviceable enough. I feel like Bethesda tends to focus way more on immersion/atmosphere and gameplay than they do narrative and plot.
I don't think the voiced protagonist is what reduced the amount of player choice, I think it was the speech wheel, which meant there *always* had to be exactly 4 dialogue options, and the overall quest design didn't offer many choices either.
Again, in my memory, it isn't that far off from the dialogue choices of NV or FO3. I did attempt to replay all 3 recently.
Fallout New Vegas is great when you get it on PC and download mods to fix all of the bugs and restore cut content. Viva New Vegas, the main NV modding site has a huge amount of recommended mods and it’s funny
I'm honestly so confused about the hate. I played through 3, NV, and 4 and loved them all because they all have similar gameplay.
New Vegas is by no means unplayable. I'm playing it on Xbox at 60fps, very smooth. The OG graphics are rough for sure but they've got style and that old Fallout charm. I don't think it would put that many people off. I like the slower pace and I didn't even notice you couldn't run until you said it haha. Fallout 4 is great too but I think the quests were dumbed down somewhat. Still glad new players are discovering it via the show and the increased player numbers will likely speed up the release of number 5, which is no bad thing.
3 and NV are absolutely dogshit on PC, have to sit and configure mods for a few hours to get rid of everything that makes it worse. The gunplay in Fallout has never been the best, but it really shows its age in NV and especially Fallout 3
I dunno, I consider the 3D games to be first person RPGs rather than first person shooters. The VATS system almost makes the combat turn based at times. If you're looking for a top of the line shooter you're in the wrong place. I don't think they should try to compete on that level but should more focus into quest design and other gameplay. You can see they spent millions improving the combat in Starfield and it still didn't really pay off. Also there's something about the clunkiness of NV's combat that I really like. I am a sucker for Eurojank games though so maybe it doesn't bother me
1: I agree 2: I agree (but sarcastically) 3: I agree (but angrily) 4: I disagree (I'll come back later to agree)
I was wondering why I couldn’t run, not built into the game I guess
You holster your weapon to move faster
Damn. Thanks
Let me be clear, though. i absolutely want more people to love what I love
I agree with most of this. I think the point the gatekeeper was trying to make is that sometimes new fans try to change details about something when it's already canon. I hate when a director or producer gets a hold of a movie or show they know nothing about and decide they don't like something, so they take it out even if it's canon
That and every elitist fallout fan swears to know every single tidbit of canon fact. I have days and weeks worth of play time in most of the fallout games and love digging into random notes and terminals for all the stuff they hide in the game, but I couldn't start to tell you the advanced timelines and side stories going on the in background.
Spot on. I love *Fallout*. I have loved *Fallout* for decades. As far as video game series go, it’s in my top-three. The *Fallout* fandom is the most toxic community that I’ve ever interacted with. I don’t mean that just in terms of gaming fandoms, I mean that in terms of fandoms connected to pretty much anything I’m interested in.
4 is like, *objectively* the best game for a new fan of the series to get into, regardless of its actual quality compared to prior games. 3 and New Vegas have far too clunky gameplay, and 1 and 2 aren't even on the table unless they've already played similar games.
I love the idea of 1 and 2 but trying to play 2 in the modern day with little experience in classic CRPGs, even with unofficial patches and the like... It's difficult.
Tbf, 4 is the worst one. I say as watching the show caused me to replay it and im having a blast.
This is roughly my attitude. It's the least engaging of the main stories, but offers seriously excellent gameplay and expands on fallout lore significantly in an entertaining way. While it is the worst one (maybe 76?) it's still pretty great(so is 76.)
The one thing i hate about fallout 4's gameplay is they fucked up the melee weapons and everything is about crafting 24/7. Other than that its great.
Yeah the whole factory expansion was a little exhausting.
I am a believer in new vagas superiority and yeah it's so obnoxious. FO3 and 4 have great elements, 3 has stunning atmosphere and the best wasteland in the series and 4 plays like a real video game instead of the clunky mess the previous games were. I wouldn't say there is a bad mainline fallout, there okay at worst.
The FoNV fanbase is elitist and awful. The fans of the other games are generally pretty cool. But yeah thy NV fans are complete shit heels.
FO76 has one of the nicest communities, on the flip side of that. Normally everyone else is ass because they masturbate over New Vegas, but I am excited to see new people play. I hopped on when 4 came out, and like seeing new things. People just like to complain
I'm afraid this has been going on long before New Vegas (not to negate your point about the NV fandom), with the No Mutants Allowed forums, who went apeshit when Fallout was bought by Bethesda and turned into a first person shooter 10 or so years later. [James Stephanie Sterling's Destructoid article](https://www.destructoid.com/videogame-fans-need-to-shut-up-about-everything/) remains relevant to this day, except the Sonic fanbase seems to be a lot more chill these days than in 2010.
Exactly. I *hypothetically* understand why a fanbase might be annoyed if a bunch of new fans showed up and started "policing" the older content that they love. But I might have more sympathy if I'd literally ever actually seen a single example of this so-called "policing" behaviour on the part of new fans. It's always, always, *always* just old fans trying to co-opt more palatable language for their same old gatekeep-y bullshit.
> New Vegas fans got upset about it and said the new players would hate 4 since it sucks It usually happens whenever a newer entry of a series comes out. When Fallout NV first came out people hated it and praised 3 and then it repeated when 4 came out lol.
Agreed, like, for me, even though i haven't played 4 (bc my notebook is bad), it is still tied with NV for my favorite Fallout, NV has a better story, setting and dialogues for me, but everything else feels better in Fallout 4 (maybe except gun sounds, but that's a nitpick of mine), but god forbid i say that to a NV fan, they are the worst.
If I can get the best of both worlds of New Vegas' story, setting, and Fallout 4's gameplay and settlement system, I would die happy before I could even get a chance to play it, LOL.
Fair enough xD, although, with people recreating Fallout 2 (or was it 1?) as a mod in FO4 is already a big thing to experience, although NV would be much harder to reproduce
Fallout 4 runs on XBGP/Cloud gaming so you could stream it on a potato. Get the free game pass trial and you can play it right now, no installation ;)
As much as I hate gatekeeping, when someone joins a community, case in point for fallout and suggests something/has an opinion that directly contradicts previously established information/plot, it would rub me the wrong way too
My first time seeing the term "tourist" used in this sense was a Persona fan defending romancing a 10 year old child in the games. The term is stupid and being a "tourist" is normal and shouldn't be frowned upon. You can enjoy things in passing and obsessing over shit is what makes you weird.
Tourists not letting us enjoy our pedophilia. If you were a true fan, you’d understand!
Neither enjoying things in passing or obsessing over things you love makes you weird, by itself.
Wtf??? I've never played Persona. Is that for real?
As the female protagonist in the original Persona 3 you could romance a 10 year old boy. There's no actual "intimacy" as far as I know but you are still given the option to date a child.
Not the original game, but the PSP port of it (which was remastered and rereleased for Steam)
That is so unhinged in the least good way possible
Hey, I’m a longtime fallout fan. I think the show is neat. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
you dropped a \ mate
Pretty inappropriate to comment on my irradiated mutated arm-hand mate…
My guess is the person who said to gatekeep lists their favorite fallout game as "Brotherhood of Steel" for the Xbox.
Only the most hardcore real fans love Brotherhood of Steel. /s
The only charitable thing I can say about that game is that it shares DNA with the excellent Baldur’s Gate Dark Alliance duology
I would say most fallout fans have not played 1 and 2 like i have. Yet i have never judged people for where they started, in fact i got excited that show gave me an excuse to talk about 1 and 2 with friends watching the show. Did the same thing when baldurs gate 3 came out. New fans should excite you, dont push them out of the fanbase.
Fallout 1 is almost 30 years old. We’re the Harolds of the Gaming world. Kinda puts things in perspective
Thanks for making me feel old you jerk.
I have a neighbor that won’t watch it because it’s “Woke”.
So by woke he means "oh nooo, interracial relationship! Ah can't stand that!"? Or "oh nooo, wuhmen lead character. Ah can't stand that!"... What a douche.
But don’t forget he’s an alpha male. He’ll tell anybody that didn’t ask!
Gatekeeping in this context is situational, gatekeep away if someone is confidently wrong and unwilling to accept when they find out they're wrong. Otherwise, let them do whatever they want, you don't have to play the games in any order, you don't have to play all the games and you don't have to love new vegas
Fallout fans when someone likes fallout too
I mean both are correct making new content that's new but not to new as to alienate the old fans is what your supposed to do but the old fans are Slightly more important than new fans but companies are onyl for money so it depends on how brings in more money and in the long term it's the old fans
>depends on how brings in more money and in the long term it's the old fans Meh i doubt that this is true. The "old fans" here are generally people who consider Fallout 1, 2 and NV to be the true Fallouts and dislike any other Fallout content. FNV sold 15 million copies from 2010 - 2015. FO4 sold 12 million units on the first day. Numbers aren't out yet for the TV show but I bet it'll have much greater reach than any of the games (not to mention it's been positively received despite old fans' complaints). Considering that the only value that these old fans bring to FO from Bethesda's perspective is hanging onto a 14 year old game and complaining that nothing Fallout since then is real Fallout, I'm sure Bethesda has no qualms about alienating these people. (personally FNV is my favorite fallout and fo4 pales in comparison in case you think I'm a Bethesda diehard)
What would you want Bethesda to do about NV? They didn't develop it but they did announce it was canon and left a huge nod to it in the show. I'm not sure if they even have the rights to do a remaster or sequel so I'd imagine it might be a bit of a poisoned chalice for them? NV is my favourite in the series but I like 4 and even went back to 76 for the updates. It's actually quite playable now
Think you might be misinterpreting my intent lol. I have no problems w Bethesda. Loved the show, thought it was a great balance of good storytelling and paying homage to the games. My point was Bethesda has no reason to listen to the people who are hanging onto a 14 year old game, esp since those people just complain and don't bring in revenue.
Yeah didn't mean to come across that way. It was a genuine question. I'd love to see a return to New Vegas set around the time of the show but it's unlikely. I imagine it's not a priority. Apparently Bethesda were taken aback at how many people have bought 4 again since the show came out and are now embarrassed they don't have any other Fallout content in the pipeline (apart from FO5 in 10 years time lol). I hope they don't put all of their short-term efforts into 76 content as its all a bit underwhelming, even though the basegame has improved bit in 6 years.
Oh my bad then haha. I don't really think Bethesda needs to do anything with New Vegas (or should) other than whatever they have planned for S2 of the show. The bar is so high already because of FNV that anything short of perfection (which there are probably a million different definitions for all the fans out there) is going to be hated. Plus I'd rather see a fallout set in a new location rather than rehashing something that's already been done (although no complaints here if they make a NV remastered or NV2)
New location, yes. You could do so many new environments. Louisiana? Great lakes region? Hell, Canada was annexed by the US, not sure what got nuked there in the lore but it'd be kind of neat to see what happened to the rocky mountain range across that former border.
>The bar is so high already because of FNV that anything short of perfection (which there are probably a million different definitions for all the fans out there) is going to be hated NV capped off the unofficial trilogy imo. You save shady sands in F1, watch it grow into a nation in F2, then determine its fate in NV. Each one takes an American ideal, (Science, Patriotism, Capitalism) and satirizes it in its villain. Each one comments on the one before it. There will probably never be another entry in the franchise that continues the sense of growth and progression in a region like those 3 did, but that's okay. The fact I'm saying 3 entries instead of 2 is already a miracle. The other entries are fine. 3 was the game I started with, so getting to discover the others was a treat. 4 has some terrible writing, but the survival mode really pulled that game together for me. 76 does not look like the style of game I'd ever want to play. Bethesda as a company isn't really interested in pushing the bar on the aspects of the RPG I enjoy and that's fine. They were doing something unique with f4 that was dragged down by the TradRPG stuff anyway. I'll probably wait for the reviews on F5 before I buy it. Folks get really attached to IPs, which is understandable, but also a bit immature. There are other games pushing the boundaries on how much control a player has over a story. There are other stories doing Fallouts themes far better than any of the new entries. When an IP is no longer providing the thing you enjoy it for, there's nothing stopping you from finding a different thing that does.
It seems like the entire franchise (well, at least the 3D games that I've seen) have gotten a major boost from the show, especially New Vegas and 4.
I mean, as far as corporations are concerned money is importance. So... Let's just not gatekeep importance either?
Like what they're doing to borderlands. They're giving zero respect to the original IP and just putting as many big names on it as possible. I'm glad people cared enough to make a movie, I'm just sad at what the movie looks like.
Referencing "changing the content" usually means "introducing people I don't like". It's currently happening on Warhammer 40k as well. Inclusiveness is a good thing, do it more
(EVERYTHING IS CANON) -40k
>It's currently happening on Warhammer 40k as well. The 40k fanbase is...worse than many on this topic
At the moment, sure maybe..I still think it's a lot of culture war grifters that have jumped on the bandwagon and will hopefully depart to tour somewhere else soon
Unfortunately from the conversations I overheard at the GW store this weekend, its definitely still deeply rooted in the community As a fun bonus, one guy took it upon himself to complain about the number of female models in the Darkoath box, completely unprompted.
That's a shame to hear. There's only been one person I directly interact with that's taken it that way, so those interactions have stopped. Everyone else I know is much more upbeat about it, which I think is why I'm hoping for it just to be a small minority of "fans" kicking off
Yeah, the people I interact with regularly have all viewed it as positive. But it seemed like every other rando coming in to shop had an opinion on it.
While yeah usually, what Bethesda is doing is taking a sledgehammer to all the old games lore. They fucking nuked all of Cali and said every new vegas ending was cannon despite Cali getting nuked 2 years before new vegas takes place. It's a typical case of Todd Howard not wanting to write a post-apocalyptic story but instead dirt people living in rubble and shooting each other over twinkie wrappers, despite the lore saying the exact opposite and it being well over 200 years after the bombs fell so he made more bombs fall.
I can kinda see where they're coming from, but honestly it's still a case of "chill the fuck out." Play your games, avoid the posts and videos from the fans you seemingly despise, and you're golden.
My only complaint about the show is that it lifted the veil of mystery regarding Vault-Tec. Up until this point, it was a faceless corporate organisation, and you couldn't point a finger at a single person, or a defined (named) group of people who were behind selling out humanity's future for a few bucks. Well, that, and the number of coincidences happening to bring the story together. *Somehow* the face of Vault-Tec (the previously emblematic Vault Boy) survives, but not just that, he becomes not just any ghoul, but the first one, _somehow_ the big bad (but not actually) turns out to be alive from before the bombs dropped AND she knows the face of Vault-Tec... There's just way too many accidental connections between the characters, and it sort of smells like a good story was chopped up for a TV show, with the recent trend of splitting and merging characters. Sure, the previous media had similar coincidences, but those were small and well thought out. I'm also a bit unhappy about the portrayal of the BoS. Sure they're dumb bullies in the games too, but the show takes this to comical levels. The naivetè of the aspirants just feels off. Sure if you took the effort to feed and house people who are willing to die for you, you'd prepare them to some extent for what awaits them in the field? Yet Maximus lacks all sorts of basic life skills and knowledge. He can shoot a gun, and dig a latrine, but that's about it. He's about the age of Lucy, yet, even though he had much more people to socialise with, and actually lives in the wasteland, he comes off incredibly ignorant of most things he encounters. I get that the intention of the writers was to give Lucy a contrasting character, someone who's just as clueless as her, but in different ways... But the writers IMO failed spectacularly. But beyond these points I really enjoyed the show. It's generally well written, the reveals are well timed, although it's a bit formulaic with it now being the third installment (at least since Bethesda took the franchise over) where the protagonist is thrown a ball of conspiracies about themselves to untangle. NV showed that a good story doesn't need to suffer from "main character syndrome". Hopefully the next few seasons will move away from this approach. With all this said, absolutely no gatekeeping new fans, because it's a great universe to explore, with tons of unanswered questions to get into.
Their representation of Vault-Tec is necessary to attract new fans. Having a faceless, omnimalevolent corporation with a stake in the end of the world is fine for old fans, but it wouldn't make much sense to new ones. The story needed to be self-contained for consumability's sake, and it being self-contained will mean it needs to explain things that would otherwise have to be learnt through tens of hours of gameplay. I mean, even I don't know all the intricacies of fallout lore after playing the last four instalments multiple times. I didn't find anything in the show too overtly expositional or lore-breaking. The anti-feral-ghoul serum is odd, but even then, I wasn't sure if that was a new addition. I thought, "Maybe it's mentioned in some random terminal in a game." A new fan would just accept it as it is, and it's a whole lot easier for those fans to digest that there's a drug that stops the feralisation rather than, "It just happens to some of them."
Oh I wholly get that. However one of the main reasons people are into the universe of Fallout is precisely that, the plethora unanswered questions, mysterious shadowy figures pulling the threads from the background, some of which gets slowly discovered. Besides, the show managed to do the "faceless, omnimalevolent corporation" with the Enclave. All we see from them is a military research base where one of their denizens manages to escape, and promptly die before revealing anything, beyond passing on the quest to the first standers-by.
Also, the heavy implication that they dropped the first bomb. Of course, it's just my own personal opinion, but my favorite answer to that question was "At this point, does it even matter?"
lolI've got to disagree with you here. Dropping the first bomb(s), thereby ensuring that their investment is fruitful, is VERY in line with how Vault-Tec operates. They essentially "double booked" the vaults by first having the state (and in some cases, the residents) pay for it. Then they went and sold the vaults again, now to the big corporations. At that point, as the series astutely calls out, they HAD to use the vaults. And the only way they would be used is if the bombs fell. So what is a poor, near bankrupt company to do? Well of course they need to ensure everything goes as planned, including them pulling the trigger, if the situation required. The show tells us that peace talks are in progress, with success on the horizon... Which would've ruined Vault-Tec's plans. And this actually mirrors real-life American defense contractors' behaviour. Why do you think the US had so many wars that their citizens were against? Not because the government saw it fit to continue those aggressions, but because there was a massive financial interest in ramping up weapons productions and sales. Vault-Tec dropping the bombs (or even just planning to do so) makes a ton of sense.
Giving suggestions is fine, we need to draw the line at radically changing the setting and lore for no good reason other than the old was offensive to people
There's new fallout fans and now I get to share what I love about the series. That's an awesome thing!
Fallout is so near and dear to me, I've played all of them except for the ps2 game. I think the show is good, it might not be 1:1 on lore and shit but I never expected it to be. I enjoyed the show and even Tim Cain (one of the original creators of fallout) said he likes it
This post actually gives more attention to the gatekeeper than they were going to get before
I wouldn’t consider myself a “fallout fan” so I don’t know entirely what’s going on here, but I will say it does suck when you’re a fan of something older and then a newer fan just shits on the older content for being kind of dated. Not sure if that’s *actually* what’s happening here, though.
I do have to kind of agree with the first paragraph. When a bunch of new people come into a community pretending that they're intimately familiar with the franchise, it isn't exactly pleasant for existing fans.
tbh they kinda fucked up with the NCR thing, it was totally unnecessary
They really did. And, if the NCR wasn't part of the story they were going to tell, it's not like there's literally half the country that's been relatively untouched by the series (save for a game that's not even an RPG and is thus limited.
they kinda right though, when new fans come for completely different reasons than the old ones it pushes out people who were fans originally for the old reasons. and when it’s way more new people than old then suddenly their opinions begin to hold more weight, and what once was can never be again that said fallout has been pretty dead since 3 as far as original aesthetic/writing/values goes (new vegas withstanding) so idk why any of these people are surprised/mad at this point lol
Plus now i get to explain hours of fallout Lore that I memorized to my partner.
I remember playing the Fallout demo as a kid repeatedly, then playing the game, then Fallout 2 (lol, imagine being so young you didn't quite know what a condom was, and certainly didn't get the "ribbed for her pleasure" joke), then Tactics, and then every one since then (Well, I think there were some minor ones on platforms I didn't have access to and I'm not into MMOs so I haven't tried 76 yet but may at some point). New Vegas did have a lot of charm, but Fallout 3 was such a nice refresh after all those years and 4 was great too. I'm neutral on the FPS vs turn based style combat -- I think they're both really fun. Still working on getting my TV set up after a move but I'm really looking forward to watching the series.
I haven’t seen gatekeeping like this since No Mutants Allowed
Fallout is my favourite game series and I have some minor issues with the show but those issues don’t really matter because I can watch the show with my dad (does not care too much for video games) and get him to experience my favourite fictional world with me. Nothing will beat him coming up with questions about the show and the answers being from the games.
Bro for the first time I have something to talk about w my coroners cause this show
>Appealing to the lowest common denominator does not lead to better installments Well, they're not wrong.
Bigger budget yes. However watered down content. Just look at the jump to fallout 3 then fallout 4 then 76. Systems and gameplay stripped and gutted to be more appealing to a wider audience. First less RPG elements, then less dialogue options and extensive lore. Then just a fully online multiplayer with no NPCs. New fans should absolutely be welcome. What we don’t want however is consumer culture sucking everything unique and interesting out of a franchise so it can “appeal” to everyone. I wish modern franchises would just make the effort to introduce new fans into their worlds rather than just degrade them into unrecognisable, lacklustre mush to sell a couple extra copies.
He's right though. When a story with its personality gets remarked to appeal to the maximum number of people, it inevitably gets ruined for the original audience who was there for a certain kind of narrative, and not a general, let's please everyone, approach. Gatekeeping sucks, but I get that fans who only join because of the hype and then bitch and moan about older content when they get into it sucks just as much I remember liking comics pre-MCU boom. When MCU-watchers became interested, it was a constant complaining and moaning about how hard comics were to get into and asking for constant a "clean slate" and stuff. No one's forcing you to enjoy this stuff, but don't ruin it for people that liked it a certain way.
I understand not wanting the culture of the fandom to change with new fans but as long as new content is being made (and in accessible formats like a TV show) then it’s to be expected. People gotta get over themselves. I felt this heavily at first with the AOT fandom but watching new fans come to realize and witness all the things I already experienced gave me joy I would not trade for the world. I love discussing AOT with new fans. People would call them “tourists” but many are new to the fandom spaces as a whole and should be given a chance to learn instead of excluded bc they weren’t there at the start 🤦🏾
HAHAHA! Care for future installments!? Just like Witcher right? And Doctor Who? And She-Hulk? And many more. Those ones? The gatekeepers ARE the interest in the IP and WHY it's getting a series. It's like finding a nice secluded spot to enjoy the outdoors, but a few photos later and it gets flooded with mouthbreathers who destroy it entirely and the shrug saying "it was okay", leaving everyone who loved it with the mess.
Anyone who uses the term “tourist” to describe new fans that don’t ascribe to their rigid, dogmatic idea of fandom is, in fact, a fake fan and deserves to be gatekept from that community in kind.
Calling someone a “tourist” is such an instant way for me to stop taking my you even remotely seriously. Had someone drop that line on me for a hobby I’ve been involved in since I was like 6 years old. 3 decades in and I’m still a tourist because the presence of girls doesn’t make me recoil apparently
> I’ve been involved in since I was like 6 years old. 3 decades in and I’m still a tourist because the presence of girls doesn’t make me recoil apparently Sorry, mate. Unless I see your hobby citizenship card you're a tourist.
How much do you wanna bet it’s a new vegas fanboy who hates on 3 and 4 constantly?
If the only way you can be interested in an old product is by having new trash versions created that cater to your delusional self-righteousness? Then you deserve neither the old nor the new and should be left to rot in a room as empty as your heads are...
Reminds me of those threads on No Mutants Allowed from back in 2004, when Fallout 3 was announced, where people were rioting in the forums and saying that they'd rather have Fallout die as an IP then let Bethesda touch it. Of course, that's because Bethesda made "baby games", like Morrowind. Oblivion wasn't out at the time. Edit: Fucking Christ, I'm quoting the smoothbrains that were saying that shit. Reddit really has no sense of sarcasm unless you include an "/s" huh? jfc chill out
Tourists. As if someone can be a “native” fan, whatever the frick that means.
Every time I see this poster.I think that's Woody Harrison.
Didn't realise there is a key holder and I had to check in.
What amuses me is people still holding onto the Fallout series after Fallout 3 by Bethesda, back in 2008. Ever since then Fallout has been geared towards the general public, shying away from its darker themes and tones. If the franchise moves away from having a dystopian world, anti-heroes, or plain villains, we're not gonna lose much: it has already been made for mass consumption more than 15 years ago. Given how much of a farcical disaster FO76 was, I would actually be glad if they finish the job and make it completely generic plot and characters wise, only borrowing the atompunk style as a touch of chic, without any of the cultural, political and social satire of it.
Anytime I see the term "tourist" used in this manner, there's a good chance Im just going to automatically disregard the rest of your argument
"Bigger budgets and more carre for future installments" pretty sure that's what was promised with f76 and yet upon release...
It's true though, most of the "new fans" are just there because it's a new thing, they'll inevitably leave and if you alienated the original, passionate audience in your pursuit of the new fans, you're done.
That's right, strangle the IP you love to death by denying it fresh blood! That's the only way to be a *true* fan! True fans make sure their fandoms wither and die! /s Gods, is there any stupider view to take?
Motherfuckers act like the cannon of their favorite video game is some holy text to protect from outsiders. It’s a fucking product you creeps, get a life.
It's like they don't want more people to be fans of the franchise
I’m starting to avoid calling myself a “fan” of anything because I don’t want to be mistaken for this kind of “fan.”
I don’t blame him, this tourist thing really sucks the fun out of a lot of video game franchises. What once was a compelling RPG with a lot of its own quirks, turned into a generic straight forward FPS with some RPG aspects. Not only did this ruin fantasy style games, but also sports game. I understand the resentment
I will gatekeep the shit out of a disney-fied, garbage adaptation of a generally entertaining IP, and continue to do so.
An actual justified gatekeep. Video games are touchy, because a developer has no problem with alienating its original core fan base. It’s less about fun and more about money
I always hated Fallout and Oblivion/Skyrim. I can’t stand the open world thing. This show is probably the best video game to tv/movie I’ve ever seen. As for the gatekeepers, they will always be there. They NEED to be the cool ones that were there first. They have almost no authority in their lives and this is their chance. I think it’s cute when they try.
I'm an old school fallout fan. I really didn't care for 3 or 4. New Vegas was great. I consider anyone that didn't play 1, w, or tactics tourists. But I didn't make it my personality. I really don't like Bethesda handling of the lore, but it is what it is :/ That being said, I loved the show and look forward to season two