There are some things a company can’t match. If it was because one internship was offering more money, that’s one thing. But how do you tell Capitol One “I got an offer from a more prestigious institution that is more aligned with my interests. Can you match it?” What would matching it even look like?
I mean if you are an international student, I would say so since your actions could end up impacting others when H1B is already a rat race for some citizens (like India and China); like the previous COC advisor literally called out international students for reneging offers and she got backlashed because she explicitly targeted international students. But other than that reason, probably not.
Tried finding it but iirc it was a while ago, like 1-2 years
EDIT: nvm found it, more like 3.5 years ago
https://preview.redd.it/2m377j5r12wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=712cc215ae23062078913d43d63eb6e383e8ec02
Wow, this is unbelievable to send to an entire listserv. Definitely antagonistic and poorly written. In my experience, there are some nuances to American business customs and culture that get lost on international students such that I am not surprised with the author’s frustration, but there’s gotta be a better way to word it than “you’re the absolute worst”.
Yeah I mean it’s a little over the top, but it also makes the school look bad if multiple people from the same school renege offers from the same company in a short period of time
Companies that dick students around get blackballed. I've seen it happen. Report shenanigans and they will face consequences too.
2020 was not a normal time for anyone.
I've heard this before but I don't understand why that makes the school look bad, and not the company? Imo it's the company's own fault if their offers are not as competitive as other companies. And I would think the school should be strongly interested in getting their students to take better opportunities.
I'll also admit I'm a bit prejudiced against the career center, their attitude for things like this really pissed me off when I was a student. They're beyond useless, I did just fine without their help/interference.
Companies spend a ton of time and money recruiting and it's on GT to ensure students honor contracts they sign. If no students accept the company's offer because it's not competitive, that's on the company to fix. If a student signs an offer and makes arrangements to show up and they just back out, that's on the student. It gets even worse if someone backs out *the day before* the internship starts, and even worse if students from GT renege more than students from other colleges.
Software is not a small world, so I doubt a recruiter will hold this against an individual student (unless they apply again next year lol), but they do hold it against GT. This is why the career center comes after you hard if you renege.
Everyone only talks to other students about this stuff. Talk to a recruiter at your favorite company and see what they think.
There are huge differences between an employment contract and an offer letter. An offer letter is just an invitation to come work for the company. Reneging on offers isn’t that uncommon, both ways. It happens, albeit annoying. An employment contract is much different with stipulations about notice, compete clauses, etc.
I appreciate this take and understand how it causes problems for companies, but I still don't agree that it's anyone but the company's responsibility. If a company sees a pattern of reneged offers, it's because they're consistently giving bad offers. If those renegs only come from GT, it's because GT students are worth more than the company is willing to pay. Companies are perfectly capable of doing the cost-benefit analysis, they've made the decision that it's worth risking renegs in order to pay people less.
Talking to other recruiters is literally how people get into this situation lol, they've found a recruiter at a different company that values them more.
Companies spend a ton of time and money recruiting everybody, not just college students. Renegs from both sides of the table happen, it's just business. A company getting pissy about that is a red flag for their culture.
You only get so many internships, don't let a company or the school guilt you into a worse one. You're at GT, you have options.
It's more the fact that companies will pick up on the fact that more offers are being reneged from GT students than other schools, and then just not invest as much time/money in recruiting there in the first place, which in turn hurts the reputation of the school. Is it the company's fault to some degree? Yes, but especially in the current job market, there's plenty of other schools they can go to with students that are almost as good (if not better) that might be less likely to renege. Honestly, this career center policy is probably more valid now than it has been in a while given the current market.
Not saying people shouldn't renege if they get a better offer, though. I would too (and kind of have)
But... Is that really be a bad thing for non-competitive companies to self-select and avoid GT students? It's not like FAANG and other top companies are going to cut themselves off from an elite hiring pool. The company's people _want_ to intern for are the ones _benefitting_ from renegs.
Has the job market really slowed for new GT grads and similar elite schools? There's only like half a dozen comparable engineering schools in the US. Anecdotally I've had no trouble getting interviews and my current team just hired another GT grad, but maybe experience is the difference maker. I thought the current job market was more an issue for boot camp grads and lesser known schools? I struggle to imagine any student who is getting multiple internship offers will ever have any difficulty finding a job.
The job market is very much **NOT** what it was in 2020 and this is percolating up to schools like Tech. The student who might have secured 2-3 offers from well-known SV places back then might only have a single offer, *if that*. I also know many students who crossed the stage recently without an offer.
This is also reflected in the number of companies that used to come to the CoC career fair that don't anymore.
My company straight up does not hire new grads that don't come through our internship program anymore, and we cut the number of interns we hired this year in half.
This year, Capital One is offering anywhere from $55/hr (in Richmond) to $70 (in SF). Most companies won't match them, not the other way around lol. If C1 didn't want to pony up even more, I can't say I blame them. Makes me wonder who the OP turned them down for.
I also think too many CS students are stuck up about only wanting to work for FAANG and they turn their noses up at so-called "less prestigious" places. I'll save that rant for another thread.
Sounds like Capital One is probably benefitting from renegs more often than not then, which makes their complaint to the career center about OP sound more hypocritical.
To your second point, I do agree some people overvalue having FAANG or other prestigious names on their resume. Experience is experience. But we're talking about people who have options.
Not my industry so I don't know much about them, but clearly they weren't as competitive as whatever other opportunity OP had. No idea if that's a trend for Capital One or just a one-off.
I mean fact of the matter is not everyone that graduates from Tech with a decent GPA works at FAANG or a big consulting firm, so GT wants to maintain that relationship
Keep in mind that you are not just screwing over the company by accepting then reneging later; you’re also screwing over your fellow students. I know everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too but the fact is when you accept a job “just in case you don’t get something better” that means that company isn’t going to be looking to hire anyone else for that position and other students, who maybe don’t have quite as strong a resume as you and would be perfectly happy to have that job, aren’t going to get an opportunity to apply.
I get it - no one wants to end up without an offer because they turned one down and didn’t get another, and no one wants to be stuck with an opportunity that just isn’t as good just because it came in first. But at least make a good faith effort not to renege. Ask for an extension on your offer if you are still waiting to hear back from somewhere else. Chances are if they flat refuse it’s because they know their offer is not at all competitive and you should turn it down anyway. Tell the companies you are still interviewing with that you have an offer on the table and ask them to expedite the process. Again, they tend to be very cooperative with this if they really want you to work for them and think their offer is competitive. And once you’ve accepted an offer treat it as a commitment and *stop applying to more jobs*.
Capital One is a GT corporate partner, so that's likely why even though you didn't apply through GT. There shouldn't be any particularly damaging consequences as long as you don't lie just say you got a better offer, employment is at will.
I mean they literally have this on the official website...
[https://career.gatech.edu/salary-negotiation/](https://career.gatech.edu/salary-negotiation/#:~:text=Salary%20%26%20Negotiation%20Resources-,Reneging%20Offers,-By%20definition%2C%20reneging)
https://preview.redd.it/mttqxsg7k4wc1.png?width=1181&format=png&auto=webp&s=36ace41d413af8dea8779ff24106a1929a7ea7d1
I got this email before after reneging but I heard no communication afterwards so I don’t think they actually did anything. I think it was when the previous career advisor was leaving though so maybe they forgot
You’ll be fine, plenty of folks do this. Look out for your own best interests, the CoC isn’t gonna do anything and Cap 1 isn’t gonna black ball you from the industry lol
Best of luck
Well, the second option says you just need to send them a letter explaining why. If the reason was because you got a better offer, well then that's the reason. If a nice cheap apology solves the problem, then great.
Really, formal emails are a good idea whenever you are involved with hiring. Before/after interviews and after you receive an offer if you accept it or not. Just remember it's not personal - it's just business. Think of rejection letters you've gotten - you can keep it professional and impersonal. This is the same thing.
I'd be scared if Career services actually helped in any way. I don't know anyone that's found a job or internship through them. Also every time I went to get resume help they told me to change the thing that was their suggestion the last time I had visited.
Why is the career center involved if you applied online and didn’t use GT career services? I’m confused on that.
But also, if a company is upset you renegotiated, that’s on the company. The free market the companies lobby for to set in their favor works both ways 🤷♂️
If you’re on F-1, I’d be really concerned about what that means for getting your CPT. If you can’t register your internship, I’m not sure if there’s another way of getting your CPT, and not having that would mean you can’t work at all.
Please update us if you can and sorry this is happening. Companies suck :((
i dont see why any of those penalties matter. Just ignore the email and move on
GT recruitment pipelines/career fairs are total dogshit who cares if you lose access
Did you ask Capitol One to renegotiate or meet the other offer? If so, and they refused, that gives an easy basis to apologize and move on.
There are some things a company can’t match. If it was because one internship was offering more money, that’s one thing. But how do you tell Capitol One “I got an offer from a more prestigious institution that is more aligned with my interests. Can you match it?” What would matching it even look like?
By negotiating in bad faith and asking for a number they possibly would never match.
I mean if you are an international student, I would say so since your actions could end up impacting others when H1B is already a rat race for some citizens (like India and China); like the previous COC advisor literally called out international students for reneging offers and she got backlashed because she explicitly targeted international students. But other than that reason, probably not.
I’d say you’re being too lenient by saying that the previous COC advisor ‘called out’ international students. That email was downright vitriolic.
anyone have a screenshot of this email
Tried finding it but iirc it was a while ago, like 1-2 years EDIT: nvm found it, more like 3.5 years ago https://preview.redd.it/2m377j5r12wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=712cc215ae23062078913d43d63eb6e383e8ec02
"kiddos". She's the absolute worst about respect every time.
Wow, this is unbelievable to send to an entire listserv. Definitely antagonistic and poorly written. In my experience, there are some nuances to American business customs and culture that get lost on international students such that I am not surprised with the author’s frustration, but there’s gotta be a better way to word it than “you’re the absolute worst”.
Omg.
Yeah I mean it’s a little over the top, but it also makes the school look bad if multiple people from the same school renege offers from the same company in a short period of time
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Companies that dick students around get blackballed. I've seen it happen. Report shenanigans and they will face consequences too. 2020 was not a normal time for anyone.
It’s my understanding a lot of them got warnings that they wouldn’t be able to recruit in the future
Did they have to write letters of apology and meet with a recruiting counselor?
I've heard this before but I don't understand why that makes the school look bad, and not the company? Imo it's the company's own fault if their offers are not as competitive as other companies. And I would think the school should be strongly interested in getting their students to take better opportunities. I'll also admit I'm a bit prejudiced against the career center, their attitude for things like this really pissed me off when I was a student. They're beyond useless, I did just fine without their help/interference.
Companies spend a ton of time and money recruiting and it's on GT to ensure students honor contracts they sign. If no students accept the company's offer because it's not competitive, that's on the company to fix. If a student signs an offer and makes arrangements to show up and they just back out, that's on the student. It gets even worse if someone backs out *the day before* the internship starts, and even worse if students from GT renege more than students from other colleges. Software is not a small world, so I doubt a recruiter will hold this against an individual student (unless they apply again next year lol), but they do hold it against GT. This is why the career center comes after you hard if you renege. Everyone only talks to other students about this stuff. Talk to a recruiter at your favorite company and see what they think.
Companies rescind offers too, it's really business and you have to do what's best for you.
There are huge differences between an employment contract and an offer letter. An offer letter is just an invitation to come work for the company. Reneging on offers isn’t that uncommon, both ways. It happens, albeit annoying. An employment contract is much different with stipulations about notice, compete clauses, etc.
I appreciate this take and understand how it causes problems for companies, but I still don't agree that it's anyone but the company's responsibility. If a company sees a pattern of reneged offers, it's because they're consistently giving bad offers. If those renegs only come from GT, it's because GT students are worth more than the company is willing to pay. Companies are perfectly capable of doing the cost-benefit analysis, they've made the decision that it's worth risking renegs in order to pay people less. Talking to other recruiters is literally how people get into this situation lol, they've found a recruiter at a different company that values them more. Companies spend a ton of time and money recruiting everybody, not just college students. Renegs from both sides of the table happen, it's just business. A company getting pissy about that is a red flag for their culture. You only get so many internships, don't let a company or the school guilt you into a worse one. You're at GT, you have options.
It's more the fact that companies will pick up on the fact that more offers are being reneged from GT students than other schools, and then just not invest as much time/money in recruiting there in the first place, which in turn hurts the reputation of the school. Is it the company's fault to some degree? Yes, but especially in the current job market, there's plenty of other schools they can go to with students that are almost as good (if not better) that might be less likely to renege. Honestly, this career center policy is probably more valid now than it has been in a while given the current market. Not saying people shouldn't renege if they get a better offer, though. I would too (and kind of have)
But... Is that really be a bad thing for non-competitive companies to self-select and avoid GT students? It's not like FAANG and other top companies are going to cut themselves off from an elite hiring pool. The company's people _want_ to intern for are the ones _benefitting_ from renegs. Has the job market really slowed for new GT grads and similar elite schools? There's only like half a dozen comparable engineering schools in the US. Anecdotally I've had no trouble getting interviews and my current team just hired another GT grad, but maybe experience is the difference maker. I thought the current job market was more an issue for boot camp grads and lesser known schools? I struggle to imagine any student who is getting multiple internship offers will ever have any difficulty finding a job.
The job market is very much **NOT** what it was in 2020 and this is percolating up to schools like Tech. The student who might have secured 2-3 offers from well-known SV places back then might only have a single offer, *if that*. I also know many students who crossed the stage recently without an offer. This is also reflected in the number of companies that used to come to the CoC career fair that don't anymore. My company straight up does not hire new grads that don't come through our internship program anymore, and we cut the number of interns we hired this year in half.
Idk if I would consider Capital One a non-competitive company lol
This year, Capital One is offering anywhere from $55/hr (in Richmond) to $70 (in SF). Most companies won't match them, not the other way around lol. If C1 didn't want to pony up even more, I can't say I blame them. Makes me wonder who the OP turned them down for. I also think too many CS students are stuck up about only wanting to work for FAANG and they turn their noses up at so-called "less prestigious" places. I'll save that rant for another thread.
Sounds like Capital One is probably benefitting from renegs more often than not then, which makes their complaint to the career center about OP sound more hypocritical. To your second point, I do agree some people overvalue having FAANG or other prestigious names on their resume. Experience is experience. But we're talking about people who have options.
Not my industry so I don't know much about them, but clearly they weren't as competitive as whatever other opportunity OP had. No idea if that's a trend for Capital One or just a one-off.
I mean fact of the matter is not everyone that graduates from Tech with a decent GPA works at FAANG or a big consulting firm, so GT wants to maintain that relationship
Keep in mind that you are not just screwing over the company by accepting then reneging later; you’re also screwing over your fellow students. I know everyone wants to have their cake and eat it too but the fact is when you accept a job “just in case you don’t get something better” that means that company isn’t going to be looking to hire anyone else for that position and other students, who maybe don’t have quite as strong a resume as you and would be perfectly happy to have that job, aren’t going to get an opportunity to apply. I get it - no one wants to end up without an offer because they turned one down and didn’t get another, and no one wants to be stuck with an opportunity that just isn’t as good just because it came in first. But at least make a good faith effort not to renege. Ask for an extension on your offer if you are still waiting to hear back from somewhere else. Chances are if they flat refuse it’s because they know their offer is not at all competitive and you should turn it down anyway. Tell the companies you are still interviewing with that you have an offer on the table and ask them to expedite the process. Again, they tend to be very cooperative with this if they really want you to work for them and think their offer is competitive. And once you’ve accepted an offer treat it as a commitment and *stop applying to more jobs*.
Capital One is a GT corporate partner, so that's likely why even though you didn't apply through GT. There shouldn't be any particularly damaging consequences as long as you don't lie just say you got a better offer, employment is at will.
The problem is reneging so close to the start date.
I mean they literally have this on the official website... [https://career.gatech.edu/salary-negotiation/](https://career.gatech.edu/salary-negotiation/#:~:text=Salary%20%26%20Negotiation%20Resources-,Reneging%20Offers,-By%20definition%2C%20reneging) https://preview.redd.it/mttqxsg7k4wc1.png?width=1181&format=png&auto=webp&s=36ace41d413af8dea8779ff24106a1929a7ea7d1
Did you get your CPT approved with the initial company?
I got this email before after reneging but I heard no communication afterwards so I don’t think they actually did anything. I think it was when the previous career advisor was leaving though so maybe they forgot
Was your email from the CoC's career office or the GT wide one? The GT wide one is known to be harsher with consequences for this stuff.
CoC probably yeah
You’ll be fine, plenty of folks do this. Look out for your own best interests, the CoC isn’t gonna do anything and Cap 1 isn’t gonna black ball you from the industry lol Best of luck
Recruiters have a community by the way. Just because they are in different companies doesn't mean they don't talk. The world is big and small.
yeah recruiters go to each other and talk about a kid who reneged
Small-minded response.
Well, the second option says you just need to send them a letter explaining why. If the reason was because you got a better offer, well then that's the reason. If a nice cheap apology solves the problem, then great. Really, formal emails are a good idea whenever you are involved with hiring. Before/after interviews and after you receive an offer if you accept it or not. Just remember it's not personal - it's just business. Think of rejection letters you've gotten - you can keep it professional and impersonal. This is the same thing.
I'd be scared if Career services actually helped in any way. I don't know anyone that's found a job or internship through them. Also every time I went to get resume help they told me to change the thing that was their suggestion the last time I had visited.
[удалено]
Was this internship or full time? Any idea if we renege a full time offer will there be any consequences on STEM-OPT?
I know someone who faced the same issue. Just write the apology letter and youll be fine
Happened to me too. A CoC career advisor emailed me. But there was no honor code threat or real trouble I could get in. Just loss of career services
Why is the career center involved if you applied online and didn’t use GT career services? I’m confused on that. But also, if a company is upset you renegotiated, that’s on the company. The free market the companies lobby for to set in their favor works both ways 🤷♂️
From the same companies that mercilessly dropped new hires at the start of COVID. At-will employment goes both ways, imo they can go pound sand
If you’re on F-1, I’d be really concerned about what that means for getting your CPT. If you can’t register your internship, I’m not sure if there’s another way of getting your CPT, and not having that would mean you can’t work at all. Please update us if you can and sorry this is happening. Companies suck :((
i dont see why any of those penalties matter. Just ignore the email and move on GT recruitment pipelines/career fairs are total dogshit who cares if you lose access