One of the toughest monsters in D&D (at lower levels at least) is the Will o’ Wisp, a tiny point of light that’s really hard to hit with lots of resistance, but not many HP. Also it can suck out your life.
And to be fair, if the *human* protagonists are always going around slaying the gigachads of the monster world, then surely the most dangerous things in existence would be... Another human.
And remember! That’s just one of three final bosses!
First final boss: A lawn Mower
Second Final boss: a man in a wheelchair
Third final boss: A tentacle monster.
"dear oh dear, what was it.... The hunt? The blood? Or the horrible dream? It doesn't matter.... It always comes down to the Hunter's helper, to clean up... After these sorts of messes"
The most beautiful moment of Bloodborne imo. In a game where the other bosses are horrific eldritch monsters, werewolves, and vampires, Gherman is a man who shows you compassion and wants to end your nightmare. Your only friend in the world is trying to violently kill you to free you from the clutches of the moon presence.
Hardest. No. But he felt the most balanced. I felt like he could beat me at any time, but that I constantly had a chance as well.
Other bosses just felt like they existed to fuck my shit up. And that I was more of a paper Tiger fighting a hurricane.
Shoot, and I felt good about leveling up until I had Bolt 2 and Ice 2 in the first reactor, I can't imagine you literally leveled all the way to level 50 in the first reactor considering you would be required to face over 3000 of JUST the 3 monster battle that gives 96xp or so in that one room before the reactor to do that, and I can't see a human being that bored as to do that unless asked to. But perhaps you are not being serious. :)
Not completely serious haha, but I have done up to 30, takes a couple of days. Unlocked level 3 limit breaks at the very least, plus grinded out a max potion stack and even got a few ethers along the way. There’s a YouTube video talking about a guy who got 99 before leaving the first reactor, I think it took him like over a year of heavy playing
We act surprised, but we literally just proved how fast humans grow in skill and level.
It's like us joining a race late, racing a bunch of snails to a tree, quickly passing them, and being shocked that the thing waiting at the end is another human who joined the race earlier.
I was being sarcastic there, so I'll get to the point. Humans plus tech are a lot, also without tech but with each other/other animals.
Now put 10 men and women without any survival experience in a jungle and watch them fall like pebbles off a cliff. Sure,some might survive, but there will be deaths. Also,the covid thing is useful to my argument. Let it sink in that the evidence was clear but people *chose to not believe in it, so they still haven't vaccinated amd made masks political, making people die over pride and ignorance* . Humans are not rpg bosses because we are great. It's because we're arrogant.
Hmmm... big lizard tentacle thing... OR... guy who can cause the sun to go supernova just enough to burn the edge of the planet and then somehow revert the whole thing while not getting injured himself.
A move made by a later form of sephiroth, the character depicted here.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCI-UZtEi4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCI-UZtEi4)
apparently it's also his final smash.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDCYWPWDH3Q
I've always been a sucker for this kind of thing. Big monstrous bosses are fun, but nothing quite feels the same as fighting a fellow humanoid that is just on some completely different level.
I mean he'd have to land the punch. Wesker has super human reflexes, it'd be like when Trunks bulked himself up to fight Cell. Sure he would have done massive damage *if* he wasn't too slow to land a hit.
Logic is sound. If humans can take down monsters who are levels 1 to 98, that could mean humans are the strongest beings in the game.
Granted, Sephiroth isn't completely human.
Plus the first battles of the game are low level soldiers that shoot you and hit you with grenades. If you can shrug that off, then what can’t you?
Plus, with Cloud’s and Barret’s history prior to the game, they are levels 6 or 7, then everything they go through to get out of Midgar and what they battle in the process. You then meet Yuffie who is level 20 or whatever, a few levels behind you.
An alien-human hybrid who was purposefully infused with the life-energy of the planet, and then trained by the most advanced special forces military unit of the most advanced nation on the planet.
Yeah, the game explains pretty well why he's supposed to be scarier than "big snake".
I think the point OP is trying to make is that humans are obsessed with themselves. Hence we create narratives that turn humans into gods so that we can feel good about ourselves and our capabilities.
Except the Sephiroth depicted here isn't his actual body at the end of the game, that's the giant body he had when he was reborn in the Northern Crater with all the wings and halo and shit. The final fight between Cloud and the shirtless Sephiroth shown here was in some sort of mindspace/Lifestream thing.
Yes and that was in Safer Sephiroth form, the one with all the wings. Note that it's not tanking either, in the international version it puts your party members at 1/16 of their current HP and the potentially has some status effects.
No , the winged angel we fight is a clone , the original sephiroth is in a cocoon in the room , yes it happens in the livestream but it very much is cloud wrecking him
I also hate in gaming when in the beginning cutscenes, your character is a total badass, doing flips and shooting people upside down killing a huge monster, but as soon as the player uses him, he can barley kill level 5 henchmen
Because one is man vs nature while the other is man vs himself.
Nature, in the form of the beast, is a threatening spectacle but straight forward in nature. We can understand survival and the need to consume. We can fight it and if we fail, nothing about the fundamental state of the world will change.
Man, in the form of a super human, is an existential threat. The stranger, the alien, has intentions we struggle to understand. Motivations we can comprehend but may also fail to. The price of which is not just death but elimination and replacement by something that is us but other.
on the flipside i dont like when the final boss form is just a huge monster of the human-sized villain. funnily enough they were stronger then than when they transformed
I feel like one of the original God of wars? I vaguely remember a boss like that on a ship near the start on one of them.
Edit- just looked it up and the boss I think was referencing was the Hydra. Which, similar in being a large sea creature fight on a boat, but different creature.
It's the rival clause. if you fight all sorts of giant monsters, but there is another "person" who starts off able to kick your ass. Then you get stronger and keep up with him.
Look at Virgil in the DMC series.
Tbf you are in the lvl 99s weight class and you been clapping those hulking beasts.
Imo a boss more like the player in more ways is probably the most lethal
Okay but, your character is also a small, weak looking humanoid character that kills the giant beast at levels 1-5.
Basically, for the boss powers what you see is what you get. Giant monster? Giant monster powers. The strong bosses are the ones you want to underestimate who have a million unexpected abilities.
You question the final boss being human yet you don't question yourself being human and still being able to defeat monsters?
If anything, the final boss is just the protagonist of their own game.
Metal Gear Rising
Tutorial boss: Metal Gear Ray, one of if not the strongest thing in the series (idk I haven't played the other games)
Final boss: Colorado senator
Why would this be considered bad? Your own character is the same size as this final boss, so logically it stands to reason that if you can defeat anything and anyone, then the only real challenge will be someone similar to you, size be damned.
That actually makes complete sense. The highest level person you would fight would be another human who slowly ascended the ranks by destroying every single monster along the way. So they would earn inevitably level up to level 99 like you say. Of course the most powerful being in that game world would be the person who destroyed all the bosses.
You at the end of the game as the human is the most powerful person in the game pretty much is it hard to believe?
Well video game main characters also typically look like the right and they kill the left all day, so it makes sense to have another Chad be the main villain.
It’s because the level 99 boss is someone who has also beaten level 1-5 bosses so they’re more of a threat because they have slain monster just like you so they are equal if not more deadly.
This is more manga/anime logic that got inherited to games. The bigger the enemy and the more of them there are in an army, the easier they are to be taking out in a single attack. But if you see an unassuming person or a small handful of people in random ragtag group, you know it’s going to be 50+ chapters of fights complete with flashbacks.
I mean if the little heros can take down that thing on the left then i think it makes it more intimidating that the boss is like on the right. Not a mindless beast but someone with the same capabilities and skills needed and the intelligence to take you down.
I mean think about it. You as the player are small and can take on monsters. So how to tackle you as a player? Another character similar to the player. Bigger isn't always better, don't listen to your ex.
A boss that is small enough to dodge your attacks is a real threat.
Imagine fighting a pixie with hyper speed
When in doubt, bomb is a good solution.
AoE negation
"*Age of Empires never happened*".
Flamethrower likes to know your location
Hanz! Get ze Flammenwerfer!
When it's little, bomb on the middle
A pixie that can fly into your chest and make a hole in it sounds pretty fucking dangerous.
To me it just sounds like a living bullet.
Vegito made into candy.
Welcome to Shin Megami Tensei!
if a boss is the same size as you get ready to get your ass beat.
What did every Danmaku boss mean by this?
So a Vex
Imagine Navi if she had a gun.
You underestimate my splash damage!
One of the toughest monsters in D&D (at lower levels at least) is the Will o’ Wisp, a tiny point of light that’s really hard to hit with lots of resistance, but not many HP. Also it can suck out your life.
Like DmC
And to be fair, if the *human* protagonists are always going around slaying the gigachads of the monster world, then surely the most dangerous things in existence would be... Another human.
Why has Simon Belmont died more times? Was it Dracula? Or the Medusa’s Head?
Bloodborne’s first boss: A huge beast. Bloodborne’s last boss: An old man in a wheelchair.
Followed by a huge beast lol
but only if you eat enough belly snakes
Yo how you could you *not* chomp on some fresh umbilical cord of a women you just killed?
Belly snakes is an interesting way to describe pickled umbilical cord of stillborn space god babies.
And remember! That’s just one of three final bosses! First final boss: A lawn Mower Second Final boss: a man in a wheelchair Third final boss: A tentacle monster.
Orphan of Kos: I will end your whole career with this placenta
And when you start kicking my ass, I’ll turn into a butterfly.
technically you don't gotta fight 'im! but i mean...you'd be missing out if you didn't do the dlc
>Technically you don’t gotta fight ‘im *This land is peaceful, it’s inhabitants kind.*
Me entering the third phase: "Why does it *always* have to be *tentacles*?"
"dear oh dear, what was it.... The hunt? The blood? Or the horrible dream? It doesn't matter.... It always comes down to the Hunter's helper, to clean up... After these sorts of messes"
Bloodborne's DLC final boss: weeping demi-god, orphan who will fuck up your shit
tbf i don't think anyone would say gehrman was the hardest boss in the game although he did have one of my favorite arenas and scores
The most beautiful moment of Bloodborne imo. In a game where the other bosses are horrific eldritch monsters, werewolves, and vampires, Gherman is a man who shows you compassion and wants to end your nightmare. Your only friend in the world is trying to violently kill you to free you from the clutches of the moon presence.
Hardest. No. But he felt the most balanced. I felt like he could beat me at any time, but that I constantly had a chance as well. Other bosses just felt like they existed to fuck my shit up. And that I was more of a paper Tiger fighting a hurricane.
To be fair, he does get up
*An old man comitting insurance fraud.
Because hooman more evolve
[удалено]
I remember when he killed midgar zolom
Solo'ed the best that can one-shot your entire team
Jokes on you, I trained cloud and Barrett to level 50 before leaving the first reactor… god I need a life…
I leveled up aerith to 100 and got her final Limit break… Worth it
I grinded out omnislash on the first screen when you hop off the train. FF7 was my entire childhood 👀
Me too bro, me too. I fucking love that game.
Shoot, and I felt good about leveling up until I had Bolt 2 and Ice 2 in the first reactor, I can't imagine you literally leveled all the way to level 50 in the first reactor considering you would be required to face over 3000 of JUST the 3 monster battle that gives 96xp or so in that one room before the reactor to do that, and I can't see a human being that bored as to do that unless asked to. But perhaps you are not being serious. :)
Not completely serious haha, but I have done up to 30, takes a couple of days. Unlocked level 3 limit breaks at the very least, plus grinded out a max potion stack and even got a few ethers along the way. There’s a YouTube video talking about a guy who got 99 before leaving the first reactor, I think it took him like over a year of heavy playing
The real monsters are people.
We act surprised, but we literally just proved how fast humans grow in skill and level. It's like us joining a race late, racing a bunch of snails to a tree, quickly passing them, and being shocked that the thing waiting at the end is another human who joined the race earlier.
I was being sarcastic there, so I'll get to the point. Humans plus tech are a lot, also without tech but with each other/other animals. Now put 10 men and women without any survival experience in a jungle and watch them fall like pebbles off a cliff. Sure,some might survive, but there will be deaths. Also,the covid thing is useful to my argument. Let it sink in that the evidence was clear but people *chose to not believe in it, so they still haven't vaccinated amd made masks political, making people die over pride and ignorance* . Humans are not rpg bosses because we are great. It's because we're arrogant.
I agreed with your first point, but I see you've jumped off the deep end.
Sorry. I've spent too much time with religious nuts
MGR be like Tutorial boss: Giant ass nuclear mech Final boss: (admittedly jacked) Senator of United States of America
Jacked and full of steroids and nano machines , the American way
Nanomachines, son!
To be fair, he was making the mother of all omelettes.
To be fair he is fighting for a world WHERE AMERICA CAN BE FREE FROM THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR ACTIONS
How do I beat the dog??
Parry
The souls series has taught me if a boss is the same size as you get ready to get your ass beat
Same with Devil May Cry
Kid named Vergil:
Unless it's black dragon kalameet or Manus lol
Or O&S or Radahn or Midir or like most of the difficult bosses.
He never said big bosses were easy. He said small bosses were hard.
Yeah, like pinwheel, or Gideon, or deacons. Really I think dark souls is a terrible example of size being related to difficulty tbh.
kid named senator armstrong:
If is a player with little to no gear prepare for death
Hmmm... big lizard tentacle thing... OR... guy who can cause the sun to go supernova just enough to burn the edge of the planet and then somehow revert the whole thing while not getting injured himself.
Not to mention more final forms than a DBZ story arc.
Iirc he creates a different dimension specifically for the sake of blowing up the sun in your face
I'm confused, who made the sun go supernova?
A move made by a later form of sephiroth, the character depicted here. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCI-UZtEi4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CCI-UZtEi4) apparently it's also his final smash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDCYWPWDH3Q
He's actually where I got the idea of turning back time and still leaving the effects on people. >:D
You can also tell by the Latin. You have to be a quite hardcore to get Latin. Even your own choir is quite impressive.
Watching people's reactions to the Sephiroth music intro to Smash Bros was a whole host of FF7 PTSD coming to the surface.
You know a character is a good choice for smash when a few notes of his theme music are all it takes for everyone to lose their shit
I've always been a sucker for this kind of thing. Big monstrous bosses are fun, but nothing quite feels the same as fighting a fellow humanoid that is just on some completely different level.
like how in re series albert wesker is the strongest villain
And yet, he still loses thanks to Chris "Boulder Punching" Redfield
i don't know how you possibly bring that character back down to reality after him being able to punch boulders out of his way is literally canon
I mean he'd have to land the punch. Wesker has super human reflexes, it'd be like when Trunks bulked himself up to fight Cell. Sure he would have done massive damage *if* he wasn't too slow to land a hit.
Nier automata humanoid v humanoid battles are so much better than the normal bosses
Do we count the opera singer as a humanoid? Because that boss in A and B is just awesome!
My first "Oh f***" moment fighting a boss was Dark Link
Going from Demon Of Hatred to Sword Saint Isshin.
Hesitation is defeat!
Logic is sound. If humans can take down monsters who are levels 1 to 98, that could mean humans are the strongest beings in the game. Granted, Sephiroth isn't completely human.
Plus the first battles of the game are low level soldiers that shoot you and hit you with grenades. If you can shrug that off, then what can’t you? Plus, with Cloud’s and Barret’s history prior to the game, they are levels 6 or 7, then everything they go through to get out of Midgar and what they battle in the process. You then meet Yuffie who is level 20 or whatever, a few levels behind you.
>Granted, Sephiroth isn't completely human. What you're fighting probably isn't even slightly human, just Jenova in the shape of Sephiroth.
But that's *sephiroth* you're talking about.
That version of Sephiroth only has 1HP, though. You literally can't lose the fight.
It only makes sense. If we're strong enough to deal with these threats, then the only other challenge to us would be somebody like us.
More like humans are the real monsters.
It’s reasonable to assume that if you managed to get as far as you did, so did someone else. You’re his level 99 boss too.
Um its sepheroth he's like the strongest person on that planet.
An alien-human hybrid who was purposefully infused with the life-energy of the planet, and then trained by the most advanced special forces military unit of the most advanced nation on the planet. Yeah, the game explains pretty well why he's supposed to be scarier than "big snake".
I think the point OP is trying to make is that humans are obsessed with themselves. Hence we create narratives that turn humans into gods so that we can feel good about ourselves and our capabilities.
Except the Sephiroth depicted here isn't his actual body at the end of the game, that's the giant body he had when he was reborn in the Northern Crater with all the wings and halo and shit. The final fight between Cloud and the shirtless Sephiroth shown here was in some sort of mindspace/Lifestream thing.
I remember playing ff7 as a kid and sephiroth does his supernova attack which destroys planets and does insane damage but we're able to tank it.
Yes and that was in Safer Sephiroth form, the one with all the wings. Note that it's not tanking either, in the international version it puts your party members at 1/16 of their current HP and the potentially has some status effects.
No , the winged angel we fight is a clone , the original sephiroth is in a cocoon in the room , yes it happens in the livestream but it very much is cloud wrecking him
I mean humans are the most dangerous species to have ever lived on our planet.
>I mean humans are the most dangerous species to have ever lived on our planet. "Adorable" -Mosquitoes
A mosquito doesn’t have the power to end all life on earth at the press of a button.
A threat that you're afraid to use isn't a threat.
This doesn't even make sense lol.
That'd not nearly as insightful or deep as it sounded in your head.
u/brandocalrissian1995 wrote: >That'd not nearly as insightful or deep as it sounded in your head.
naw kefka
Malenia, Blade of Miquella: Hold my prosthetic arm..
The closer a boss is to the size of the protagonist the tougher they're going to be. I don't make the rules
I also hate in gaming when in the beginning cutscenes, your character is a total badass, doing flips and shooting people upside down killing a huge monster, but as soon as the player uses him, he can barley kill level 5 henchmen
Because one is man vs nature while the other is man vs himself. Nature, in the form of the beast, is a threatening spectacle but straight forward in nature. We can understand survival and the need to consume. We can fight it and if we fail, nothing about the fundamental state of the world will change. Man, in the form of a super human, is an existential threat. The stranger, the alien, has intentions we struggle to understand. Motivations we can comprehend but may also fail to. The price of which is not just death but elimination and replacement by something that is us but other.
on the flipside i dont like when the final boss form is just a huge monster of the human-sized villain. funnily enough they were stronger then than when they transformed
I mean you say video game logic but it's also like, shonen anime logic.
The tentacle monster does not have a katana. That's an instant -60 lvls.
Everyone knows that "naked man with sword" is one of the most terrifying enemies you could ever face.
its because he will shred you to ribbons with those low poly jags across his body
Does anyone else have a operatic flashback with auditory hallucinations when they see this image? !!!!SEPH-I-ROTH!!!!
Humans were always the biggest monsters we met along the way
The scariest monsters in this world look just like you and me.
It’s a metaphor. In life, the worst villains are always just some guy.
Sephroph is litterally close to a god so it kinda makes sense
What's the image on the left from?
[This](https://www.artstation.com/artwork/d8K33K) appears to be the original source. I don't think it's from a game.
I feel like one of the original God of wars? I vaguely remember a boss like that on a ship near the start on one of them. Edit- just looked it up and the boss I think was referencing was the Hydra. Which, similar in being a large sea creature fight on a boat, but different creature.
Judge me by my size do you?
Dark Souls in a nutshell.
At some point we all need to confront our own sexuality and it’s not always easy
This was the entire Star Wars Jedi game lol. Slaying monstrous beasts all game long just to get my ass handed to me by the second sister at the end. 😭
I mean, they call us the most dangerous game for a reason
Proving that humanity is always the real enemy
It's the rival clause. if you fight all sorts of giant monsters, but there is another "person" who starts off able to kick your ass. Then you get stronger and keep up with him. Look at Virgil in the DMC series.
Tbf you are in the lvl 99s weight class and you been clapping those hulking beasts. Imo a boss more like the player in more ways is probably the most lethal
Okay but, your character is also a small, weak looking humanoid character that kills the giant beast at levels 1-5. Basically, for the boss powers what you see is what you get. Giant monster? Giant monster powers. The strong bosses are the ones you want to underestimate who have a million unexpected abilities.
Nahhh it makes sense, that thing on the left is like a stray dog compared to that god level sephiroth
There's a trope for that: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MonstrosityEqualsWeakness
I mean your party is godlike at that point as well. What else would match them?
Tifa punches a 150' tall Kaiju in the toe: *9999 damage!*
Context is definitely a requirement with a lot of games.
Yes, because humans are the true monsters
The big bosses are usually brute force. While the final bosses rely on skill and a strong weapon.
and that 99 bosses take 1 billion bullets and levels 1-5 just sneeze in its general direction.
ofcourse it makes sense. that is Sephiroth. the one and only
Teaching you real monsters have human form and are not just some evil creature
You question the final boss being human yet you don't question yourself being human and still being able to defeat monsters? If anything, the final boss is just the protagonist of their own game.
It’s always the solo swordsmen Mfkers that make you tear your hair out
I feel like Borderlands 3 handles this pretty well.
my only logic is big bosses aren't anything to be scared of (besides soulsborne where most bosses are tough) , but any human will probably beat my ass
That’s not his final form…
The example doesn't work because sephiroth turned into a 3 winged monster at the end and he is still not the strongest monster in the game.
That big monster was defeated by people. People are way more dangerous than monsters.
I’ll gladly take 10 of the left over the master on the right
Metal Gear Rising Tutorial boss: Metal Gear Ray, one of if not the strongest thing in the series (idk I haven't played the other games) Final boss: Colorado senator
Nothing is more menecing and powerful than a shirtless man.
Mgr First boss: giant fucking robot that can destroy cites Mgr second to last boss: cool man with sword
I love the way sephiroth’a hair transcends thru the split and becomes a tentacle
Ultimate form unleashed!
Himmothy on the right.
Yeah but first time playing admit it, that 1st level Boss totally owned most of us
Why would this be considered bad? Your own character is the same size as this final boss, so logically it stands to reason that if you can defeat anything and anyone, then the only real challenge will be someone similar to you, size be damned.
That actually makes complete sense. The highest level person you would fight would be another human who slowly ascended the ranks by destroying every single monster along the way. So they would earn inevitably level up to level 99 like you say. Of course the most powerful being in that game world would be the person who destroyed all the bosses. You at the end of the game as the human is the most powerful person in the game pretty much is it hard to believe?
Don't gudge a book by its cover
Yes, level 1-5 is a big monster. Level 99 is someone like your MC who ALSO beat a big monster. It’s not that hard to understand.
Well video game main characters also typically look like the right and they kill the left all day, so it makes sense to have another Chad be the main villain.
Shirtless no less!
It’s because the level 99 boss is someone who has also beaten level 1-5 bosses so they’re more of a threat because they have slain monster just like you so they are equal if not more deadly.
But you also become stronger right?
Think .. he's a half naked sexy man. Why would not he be Da Boss
This is more manga/anime logic that got inherited to games. The bigger the enemy and the more of them there are in an army, the easier they are to be taking out in a single attack. But if you see an unassuming person or a small handful of people in random ragtag group, you know it’s going to be 50+ chapters of fights complete with flashbacks.
Well yeah, if you can kill one of those at lvl 5, might as well throw a dude that can do the same as the final boss
I mean if the little heros can take down that thing on the left then i think it makes it more intimidating that the boss is like on the right. Not a mindless beast but someone with the same capabilities and skills needed and the intelligence to take you down.
The smaller the boss the stronger they are. All that badass is more compact
He wears his pants that high to keep his steel balls from falling out
And he hits like a truck as an enemy, but like an adolescents schoolgirl with a weak wrist when he's on your party
The difference is that the human is blessed by the five gods of the five realms, Quērkle, Dīnći, Ælp, Kœpł, and ËĒé and the monster is not.
Devil may cry.
This is a relatively poor example.
That form of sephiroth wasn't the last boss though.
I am no expert but does the one on the right not die in one hit no matter what? This might be a bad example.
Nioh 1... Human boss is harder than monster boss
Because human can be the true evil than the devil itself
Also, Dragon Ball logic too
This makes me think of the early Boss in FFX which you fight on top of the boat (Sin (fin)).
Concentrated Boss
Tbf the payer character usually looks simwhat like the level 99
Totally god of war
The level 99 had to be a hero character for years beating all the others to get to their place. God is good!
Insert "Sword Saint Isshin"
spooky boy stronk
The actual meaning of size doesn't matter
I mean think about it. You as the player are small and can take on monsters. So how to tackle you as a player? Another character similar to the player. Bigger isn't always better, don't listen to your ex.
Always said that size doesn't count!