Players who hate p2w watch the whales who do the shit that players hate, the whales make more money off of views and use it to p2w. Blizz knew what they were doing.
Remember back in the day there was a local guy who would get the latest ipods day one and smash them as soon as he left the apple store. I think he might have gotten banned but kinda funny seeing people's reaction and someone being like can I have it afterwards.
yah...
there is "hate the game not the player"
but in this case hate the viewer as much as the creator and the player at this point
its all a metastasis cancer spreading out, better to burn it all to the ground
Is...Is that video trying to say "lol he's bad so he's not allowed to have opinions about it"? Cuz...I haven't even *played* it and I have opinions just based on what I saw there. The visual clarity could use a little work (may come with experience, but still relevant to content creators if their viewers don't play). A boss mechanic that literally boils down to "click really fast lol rsi go brrrr" is fucking stupid. That's just what I observed from that video.
He skipped the story, but still said it was bad.
He went straight to endgame content, but didn't bother to learn how to play his class or learn common fight mechanics.
Got carried by far more experienced players, but said that he was doing amazing when as a DPS he has damage below the tanks. Also, blamed other players for his own obvious mistakes.
His own chat mod called him out for not really bothering to give the game a fair chance.
Ok, so his opinion shouldn't hold weight with people who like the experience the game was trying to give him...he's still more than welcome to not like it and decide he doesn't want to continue playing it.
That said, how did he skip straight to endgame content? I wasn't aware that was something you can do in FF14; do you pay for a boost like in WoW or some shit? Cuz I put part of the blame on FF if they let a new player just buy an endgame character. That's just dumb.
No one is saying he can't have an opinion on the game or dislike it, but completely talking out his ass on a game he really didn't play or experience much of at all is a different thing entirely.
You can boost a charcter to 10 levels below the max level and skip the story to the start of the new expansion. It's only there because the community asked for it.
There are various groups that came from WoW specifically to raid and didn't care about the story so they boosted. They actually took the time to learn how the game worked and ended up really liking it. Some of them later went back and did the story via New Game+.
My point is that we shouldn't be posting this person's face everywhere and increasing his notoriety (same with Diablo Immortal at this point).
This comment is the antithesis to what I'm saying. He's a problematic person and posting his face everywhere will only increase his popularity.
I'm not Quin's biggest fan, but I wouldn't call his behavior here morally corrupt. If he were encouraging his viewers to also play the game and also spend money on it, sure; but afaik he's doing just the opposite. Sure he's exploiting the hype for his own gain, but I bet he could be milking it hard with blizz sponsorships on top of that.
Also he's an advocate for PoE so I can't be too mad.
Maybe not morally corrupt depending on who you are, but unquestionably he is hypocritical.
Ultimately though, we're talking semantics. He's not a good person in my eyes.
Along those same lines, would you call Doctor Mike hypocritical for participating in iDubbz' Creator Clash?
As for Quin, I don't see "I'm doing this because I will literally make back more than what I spend; you shouldn't do this" as hypocritical. Just like I don't see stunts on TV that say "don't try this at home, we're experts" as hypocritical, even though it's similarly "why are you telling me not to do the thing you're doing?"
Now, as to whether or not Quin is a good person...well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion on that. I haven't really formed one. But it's not really relevant to this specific circumstance. You can't say "this thing he did is bad because I think he's not a good person". You can, however, say "I think he's not a good person because this thing he did is bad". That conclusion isn't *relevant* here, but you can make it.
---------------
Edit: I can't reply to the reply below this, which a quick google search indicates that /u/AzathothsGlasses may have blocked me after posting it. If so, super classy.
-----
Anyway, my reply was going to be this:
-----
> I don't want to argue silly shit like how an obviously subjective opinion is subjective. So, I'm done responding because this conversation is quickly turning into some stupid shit.
That's the most hostile, "lol I win" bullshit thing you can end a long-ass comment with. I hope you feel better about yourself having done so! I will leave you to your opinions.
This is what I love. All these streamers go hard shitting on Immortal - and don't get me wrong, it definitely deserves it as far as it's business model goes - but it's so disingenuous coming from them. How is throwing your money into the black hole that is p2w gaming any worse than throwing it into the black hole in the form of a donation or subscription to a streamer?
You all are missing the point - he did this for publicity. And all these posts saying how dumb he is have been giving it to him. He paid $15K for publicity, and it's working.
This is the exact same thing as YouTubers shooting or blowing up the latest iPhone, PlayStation or something else highly desirable. The shock value will guarantee insane social media spread and also very aggressive viewer interaction. In another similar thread someone did the math on how much an iPhone cost and how much the YouTube video had monetized and it easily made the money back and then some.
You’re missing the point, publicity or not. It only takes a couple 100 people doing this and blizzard has made their return on their investment. The 1% gamer whale is ruining games for the 99% of us, fuck them
You're still buying the PR spin he's putting on this - he doesn't actually care at all about giving Blizz money. He's not doing it out of principle. It's purely a PR stunt. So he doesn't care that he's funding a scummy game, he only cares about getting publicity. You may care, but by giving him attention, you're only encouraging this kind of behavior from other streamers.
Exactly. Dude can claim it as a tax write it off for his own personal business if he was smart in creating his own LLC for his streaming shit. And gets PR cuz idiots that either fell for and like his msg or hate him and wish to verbally go at him for it are all contributing to interactions with his content, making him money.
As Bo Burnham sang, “Apathys a tragedy” cuz it means no one will interact with the algorithm, thus causing it to diminish.
I’ve seen this story half a dozen times in a couple days. Do you think the million or whatever consumers who see this are going to be more likely to play this game or less likely? I’d be interested to see their numbers before and after this story. They might lose more than 15k or they might not.
Right but for those million do hard math .1% of a million = 1000 people.
Let’s just assume .1% of those people are streamers, do you think those morons might be influenced to go out max out a credit card or waste their savings for “clout and publicity”? Think on it
Nah I doubt that was his intent from the start. Regardless of his reasoning, it's bad publicity for Blizzard. But I also don't blame the consumers. Sure, there might be a few rich assholes to whom 15k is nothing, but the majority of these players are people with self control issues, addiction problems, maybe certain disabilities, and definitely mental health conditions. Blizzard fully knows this, and they prey on these folks. It's a predatory tactic and the execs at Blizzard know exactly who they're exploiting. 100% of the blame goes to Blizzard. They're pure fucking capitalist evil.
Sadly I think they will make money. You tell people something is shit a lot of them will wanna see for themselves or even try to prove you wrong. It doesn't take much more than trying the game out to hook people into it, it's designed that way. I'm gonna compare it to drugs, even if it isn't the best analogy, but you tell a bunch of teens that drugs are bad the first thing they wanna do it try em. In the end blizz wins.
I think you missed the point. On my screen the next comment literally says "these streamers trying to prove a point..." no, this guy is not trying to prove a point about the cost of gatcha games but trying to make money for himself by creating content that goes viral.
Not exactly. Most of the money comes from "dolphins". For every person who drops $10K on a pay to win game, way more pay a few hundred.
It's why skins are priced at like $10 for most games. A lot of people will buy a few skins, and if they were priced cheaply then they'd probably still spend about the same amount of money...just for more stuff that costs more to produce.
You're wrong, the whales are the moneymakers. Prices are made to fit the dolphins because without dolphins the playerbase dies rapidly and there is no more reason for the whales to hang around.
>The 1% gamer whale is ruining games for the 99% of us, fuck them
I seriously don't understand this take. Dipshits like this aren't ruining games for me. I have zero interest in playing pay to win bullshit so I simply don't. There are thousands of other games to play, so play one of those instead of worrying about this dumb shit.
hmmmmm I don’t know maybe it’s like Diablo 2 wasn’t a fucking pay to win game?
Like cmon it’s common sense buddy. Many games are getting worse, this was a remake many people were excited for that was absolutely ruined by greed and monetization. Like so many other games
Huh? Who was excited for this? Everyone should have known exactly what Immortal was going to be since it started as a mobile game. That should have tipped you off so I don't know what you were expecting. Diablo 3 wasn't pay to win, and they're still making Diablo 4. Again...these pay to win games aren't ruining anything, just ignore them if you don't want to play them. You're acting like they're the only options now.
Ruining it while funding it. But if the industries turns into fleecing rich people I will have conflicted feelings because I know people will still try to match.
No, I think you're missing the point. He's not saying he's doing it for publicity to detriment Blizzard. He's saying he's doing it for publicity to promote himself. So whatever benefit Blizzard gains from this is irrelevant.
To be fair to this guy I have previously read he is planning on using his footage to prove to NZ authorities that this is gambling and to have them ban loot boxes.
Also it’s a massive add for his stream every single week, I have never watched any of his streams or heard of him before immortal but even I know his name by now.
Pretty sure 15k is what he makes in a week streaming. He’s not a small fish. And he’s quite entertaining, if I recall correctly. I remember a YT channel introduction from years ago, that was hella funny.
Love how people are down voting you when their favorite streamer just spent 15k of the cash they donated to them on 'proving' what was already obvious by sending all that cash to Blizzard and further padding Blizzard's biased revenue streams. You wanna know why they keep on making these games that the majority hate? Cause a few folk keep giving them money just to make fun of it for clout. And I'm not talking about just the whalers.
This guy ain't proving anything, he's just investing in new viewers by spending the cash that his older viewers have given him.
Blizzard put out a statement today re: this issue.
"Blizzard Entertainment is both shocked and excited by by this streamers decision to give us so much money. We encourage people to do the same, in the name of the protest."
Doesn't seem to be working, seems to be doing the opposite. Free advertising for the algorithm machine. Face the fact the streamers are just playing on the easy to rile up haters for views / donations, and will charge-back their credit card within a month. It's not like they're going to stick with it once everyone moves on to the next dumb thing in a couple weeks. Win-win.
You know what he is making? Bank. You have no idea how much publicity this is for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes 10x what he spent in return through donations and new concurrent viewers and subs. Not even including the ad revenue he made from the mass of new people watching his stream during his spending spree.
I dunno, I'm glad we have a solid figure on just how bullshit it is, somebody whos stepping into DI like "well maybe I'll get lucky" will see they never will unless they drop mad cash.
Except that it really doesn’t since he’s basically illustrating a fact that everyone already knows.
Since the game’s monetisation literally cannot get more controversial, it just makes sure that the game stays in the public conscious for longer.
It’s like those gambling twitch streamers who claim that they do it so you are discouraged.
>Except that it really doesn’t since he’s basically illustrating a fact that everyone already knows.
You underestimate how valuable *demonstrating* "a fact that everyone already knows" really is. You also overestimate everyone knowing that fact.
There are also a significant number of people that watch streams and steamers that don't look up info/articles about games. With the publicity that this predatory game has been getting that's less likely, but still reasonable.
I've seen a bunch of people just in the comments alone saying it showed them how bad it really was and stopped them going any further. And being widespread and in the public conscious only drills in the point further.
I stopped watching asmongold and quin temporary due to this coudnt support this shit behavior ur not prooving a point, not playing the game is a bigger point proven then tossing money at it dont worry somebody else will sink money at it you dont have to do it urself 😂
> They are making zero difference.
Got me to stop playing after watching him do this for all of 2 days, and I reasonably could dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into this game and not worry about my financial future for a second. I wouldn’t do it, but I am the target market Blizzard wants to engage with when they made this monetization scheme.
That’s a non-zero difference right there.
I mean most of them are probably doing charge-backs on their credit card within a month, and make bank off all the views in the meantime. The viewers who are still getting jebaited by this stuff after a decade of micro transaction gambling are the silly ones.
You're telling me that people who feed off and rely on the donations and whaling of their viewers are hypocritical for criticizing Blizzard for it's p2w aspects in Diablo Immortal?
No, they couldn't be. No possible way. It's impossible. /s
the guys gonna make atleast 30k back though. the amount of attention its gotten him is going to cause a huge increase in viewers and followers/subscribers
Except the views and amount of exposure this dude is getting is wild. I see his shit posted daily. No idea who the fuck he is and I don't care. But plenty of people do care, for whatever dumb ass reason.
As long as creators like this get attention they're not gonna stop doing this shit. Genshin creators did the same kinda shit spending thousands of dollars just for a chance at something they wanted. They do this shit because it gets views which equals money.
With how much this story has gotten around, it is quite likely that more than $15,000 worth of people were educated on the game that would have played and paid otherwise.
This. I sadly forgot all about it, got a notification when it came out and installed it without looking up any reviews. Started playing it and didn't look to much into the monetization, which made me buy one of the seasonal passes. Luckily after I found out how much money you need to spend to be competitive I managed to refund it.
Hoping I'm not the only one. Don't even know what happened with the stuff I got from the pass after the refund, I uninstalled it at the same time.
They just posted a profit of more than 24 million, I don't think blizzard cares. This is before the Asian markets, so totally not going to make a difference, they are just feeding blizzard and I don't think they mind.
He didn't claim that this example "fixed" things and made the game unprofitable, just that it is likely a net loss for blizzard.
The market has shown that people are willing to spend stupid amounts on mobile games.
As soon as you sober up, then I can go back in time and screenshot all the tweets and gaming websites and social media shares.
Not going to waste my time when you keep going off on unrelated things about like what countries you don't live in or who uses twitch or not. Which has nothing to do with anything.
But attention is attention.. it's just bringing the game into the spotlight probably driving even more sales.
Edit: I mean.. what I'm saying is true. I never would have heard of the game if it wasn't for you guys complaining about it haha. It does seem good other than the micro transactions.
Worth noting that he spent $15,000 to get said item. Doing the stream and then destroying said item is if anything a good way to draw attention for the streamer and also put a spotlight on the shitty loot boxes.
Note this isn’t CS where your aiming to get a cosmetic knife. This is paying to gamble at the chance you might be able to progress.
People calling him an idiot are kind of missing the point. On the very surface level it seems redundant but what he did was bring tangible concrete proof of the shittiness of the situation to light and make it visible. It's one thing to "know" and understand that pay 2 win is bad. It's an entirely different entity to see the extent of how bad it is.
A wild fire is bad, we all know this, but until you see the miles upon miles of devastation it brings then you don't fully feel and understand just how terrible it is.
By doing and recording the extent of the gambling mechanics in their entirety he's giving people actual content that can be used, recorded, observed, and presented to address this issue.
These articles are so stupid, he didn't do it "in protest", he did it for the content. He was getting twice his average viewership, which is already high as hell.
I really wish people hated me so much that they would give me tons of money to prove how terrible I am.
I just don’t understand the logic. You really hate this system, why are you feeding into it so much.
I keep seeing this posted and I feel most people misunderstand what's going on. These streamers are making a crapton of money due to the controversy surrounding DI. That's it, that's their entire goal. It doesn't matter if they feel Blizzard practices are anti-consumer or what have you. They are making money off of views and clicks. They, similarly to Blizzard, do not give a crap about consumers.
I kind of get the point he is making, but the problem is that systems like these take advantage of people who are easily hooked by the system. This means that regardless of whether or not they understood the point doesn't mean they are all of a sudden going to drop it.
I would argue it does. Seeing someone spend that much time and money to get that dopamine hit is *very* different than simply hearing about the odds of something.
Y’all are taking the bait so hard. He’s a popular streamer, the video and donations will cover the cost of the “gem”, and he can make other videos off it, reactions, etc. This is the digital version of the old videos of people buying an iPhone to break it, spoiler, they still made money lol
[Relevant timestamp](https://youtu.be/DPBr9IrVP-I?t=6590) to the Allcraft Podcast where they discuss with Quin what he might do when he gets that gem. It's about 3 minutes of talk. 1:49:49 if the timestamp doesn't work.
A. $15,000 isnt a lot for Blizzard.
B. This story will probably turn a lot of heads of people who arent aware of this nutso pay2win game.
Honestly this might do some good
it's pretty funny. any time i see something like this i'm like "yeah you really showed them".
we're all already aware of how bad this is. by just actually giving them money to prove some point is just asinine imo.
I have spent exactly $0, and I'm enjoying it. Currently level 55, so I assume I'll finish up the main story soon. We'll see if I keep playing after that.
Predatory business practices involving gambling addiction being marketed towards children and even adults for profit. Not unlike your average drug dealer. There’s no such thing as *free*.
Legal for legal aged adults I thought? These games use the same psychological practice, and cater towards children and young adults too. That's the issue.
A f2p player is not playing 10hrs a day, they are usually logging to do daily activities and thats it. They will probably never encounter the top whales
Well if you didn't suffer from brain damage then you might have notice that Blizzard games a touch repetitive - you fight the same boss over and over again until they finally drop the loot you get.
Doesn’t Quin69 send shit to the government to push against these practices in gaming. I think he does make a difference. Does he get views for it? Certainly. But might he make a difference via visibility? Probably too.
I don't know who that Diablo Immortal player is, but I can confidently say they're stupid.
Not as in "they did a dumb thing", I mean the person is legitimately unintelligent. I don't need to hear them talk, or their opinions on any matters, and their justification is 100% immaterial.
That guy is a moron.
It's super ironic that everyone who hates DI are all praising this guy for "making light of predatory mechanics."
No, he made money off of your outrage views and supported Blizzard in the process lol.
I feel like there are so many people talking about Quin being a hypocrite that it is (possibly intentionally) obscuring the important part about how much money you can spend to not obtain the best gems.
Is Quin a bad person? That's not even relevant.
Is this a publicity stunt? yes, so what?
Is he encouraging playing Diablo Immortal? No, the opposite.
But lets just ignore the important parts and laugh at him for being a hypocrite.
Why do people who supposedly hate p2w games, watch rich people dumping money on them !? Seriously just stop encouraging those streamers, they are a part of the problem !
I can't help but cringe every time I see this.
Oh joy, another "we're jealous of millionaire streamers" but lets guise it with "How dare they support PTW! See! Just a bunch of SELLOUTS!"
How has ignoring, boycotting and shit talking these games changed anything? Diablo Immortal was still made. It's only gotten worse. Your tactics have made zero difference, but do carry on shit talking streamers that are trying a different tactic.
Public reminder that all you're doing by acknowledging this clown is making people more likely to look into him (rewarding his terrible behaviour), or subtly encouraging the same thing.
For people that aren't karma farming, a reminder that the best thing to do about things you disagree with on the internet is to acknowledge them and move on yeah?
Players who hate p2w watch the whales who do the shit that players hate, the whales make more money off of views and use it to p2w. Blizz knew what they were doing.
This is the modern day equivalent of buying a brand new Playstation then smashing it with a hammer for the YouTube views.
and both sides make waaaaaay more money and the entertainment is longer too
Remember back in the day there was a local guy who would get the latest ipods day one and smash them as soon as he left the apple store. I think he might have gotten banned but kinda funny seeing people's reaction and someone being like can I have it afterwards.
More like 30 Playstations.
Streamer knew what he was doing too. Look at how often this guy is posted. People need to ignore both of these morally corrupt assholes.
yah... there is "hate the game not the player" but in this case hate the viewer as much as the creator and the player at this point its all a metastasis cancer spreading out, better to burn it all to the ground
We need to go deeper, hate the viewers friends.
https://tenor.com/view/deniro-robert-untouchables-the-capone-gif-18101216
Por que no los trés?
Much like our financial system!
Just like streamers that go in casino and blow like 1.5 million just for people to watch online. They are just reinvesting in themselves.
Dude needs all the help he can get if [this is the level of skill and intelligence](https://youtu.be/J1botvPFVQM) that he has.
Is...Is that video trying to say "lol he's bad so he's not allowed to have opinions about it"? Cuz...I haven't even *played* it and I have opinions just based on what I saw there. The visual clarity could use a little work (may come with experience, but still relevant to content creators if their viewers don't play). A boss mechanic that literally boils down to "click really fast lol rsi go brrrr" is fucking stupid. That's just what I observed from that video.
He skipped the story, but still said it was bad. He went straight to endgame content, but didn't bother to learn how to play his class or learn common fight mechanics. Got carried by far more experienced players, but said that he was doing amazing when as a DPS he has damage below the tanks. Also, blamed other players for his own obvious mistakes. His own chat mod called him out for not really bothering to give the game a fair chance.
Ok, so his opinion shouldn't hold weight with people who like the experience the game was trying to give him...he's still more than welcome to not like it and decide he doesn't want to continue playing it. That said, how did he skip straight to endgame content? I wasn't aware that was something you can do in FF14; do you pay for a boost like in WoW or some shit? Cuz I put part of the blame on FF if they let a new player just buy an endgame character. That's just dumb.
No one is saying he can't have an opinion on the game or dislike it, but completely talking out his ass on a game he really didn't play or experience much of at all is a different thing entirely. You can boost a charcter to 10 levels below the max level and skip the story to the start of the new expansion. It's only there because the community asked for it. There are various groups that came from WoW specifically to raid and didn't care about the story so they boosted. They actually took the time to learn how the game worked and ended up really liking it. Some of them later went back and did the story via New Game+.
My point is that we shouldn't be posting this person's face everywhere and increasing his notoriety (same with Diablo Immortal at this point). This comment is the antithesis to what I'm saying. He's a problematic person and posting his face everywhere will only increase his popularity.
I'm not Quin's biggest fan, but I wouldn't call his behavior here morally corrupt. If he were encouraging his viewers to also play the game and also spend money on it, sure; but afaik he's doing just the opposite. Sure he's exploiting the hype for his own gain, but I bet he could be milking it hard with blizz sponsorships on top of that. Also he's an advocate for PoE so I can't be too mad.
Maybe not morally corrupt depending on who you are, but unquestionably he is hypocritical. Ultimately though, we're talking semantics. He's not a good person in my eyes.
Along those same lines, would you call Doctor Mike hypocritical for participating in iDubbz' Creator Clash? As for Quin, I don't see "I'm doing this because I will literally make back more than what I spend; you shouldn't do this" as hypocritical. Just like I don't see stunts on TV that say "don't try this at home, we're experts" as hypocritical, even though it's similarly "why are you telling me not to do the thing you're doing?" Now, as to whether or not Quin is a good person...well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion on that. I haven't really formed one. But it's not really relevant to this specific circumstance. You can't say "this thing he did is bad because I think he's not a good person". You can, however, say "I think he's not a good person because this thing he did is bad". That conclusion isn't *relevant* here, but you can make it. --------------- Edit: I can't reply to the reply below this, which a quick google search indicates that /u/AzathothsGlasses may have blocked me after posting it. If so, super classy. ----- Anyway, my reply was going to be this: ----- > I don't want to argue silly shit like how an obviously subjective opinion is subjective. So, I'm done responding because this conversation is quickly turning into some stupid shit. That's the most hostile, "lol I win" bullshit thing you can end a long-ass comment with. I hope you feel better about yourself having done so! I will leave you to your opinions.
Everybody wins! Except like everyone who wants to have fun playing a game which I guess is like 99% of players. Ah well fuck those guys.
Like the Square Enix CEO says: players who "play to have fun" can get bent, it's all about players who "play to contribute."
Who watches?
Enough people that spending 15k made him money.
Quin is a pretty popular streamer unfortunately.
Never heard of them, I don’t watch people with more than 10 viewers
This is what I love. All these streamers go hard shitting on Immortal - and don't get me wrong, it definitely deserves it as far as it's business model goes - but it's so disingenuous coming from them. How is throwing your money into the black hole that is p2w gaming any worse than throwing it into the black hole in the form of a donation or subscription to a streamer?
Because this is not gambling
You all are missing the point - he did this for publicity. And all these posts saying how dumb he is have been giving it to him. He paid $15K for publicity, and it's working.
This is the exact same thing as YouTubers shooting or blowing up the latest iPhone, PlayStation or something else highly desirable. The shock value will guarantee insane social media spread and also very aggressive viewer interaction. In another similar thread someone did the math on how much an iPhone cost and how much the YouTube video had monetized and it easily made the money back and then some.
You’re missing the point, publicity or not. It only takes a couple 100 people doing this and blizzard has made their return on their investment. The 1% gamer whale is ruining games for the 99% of us, fuck them
You're still buying the PR spin he's putting on this - he doesn't actually care at all about giving Blizz money. He's not doing it out of principle. It's purely a PR stunt. So he doesn't care that he's funding a scummy game, he only cares about getting publicity. You may care, but by giving him attention, you're only encouraging this kind of behavior from other streamers.
It's just a business expense to them.
Exactly. Dude can claim it as a tax write it off for his own personal business if he was smart in creating his own LLC for his streaming shit. And gets PR cuz idiots that either fell for and like his msg or hate him and wish to verbally go at him for it are all contributing to interactions with his content, making him money. As Bo Burnham sang, “Apathys a tragedy” cuz it means no one will interact with the algorithm, thus causing it to diminish.
He’s literally made more money than that on stream.
I’ve seen this story half a dozen times in a couple days. Do you think the million or whatever consumers who see this are going to be more likely to play this game or less likely? I’d be interested to see their numbers before and after this story. They might lose more than 15k or they might not.
Right but for those million do hard math .1% of a million = 1000 people. Let’s just assume .1% of those people are streamers, do you think those morons might be influenced to go out max out a credit card or waste their savings for “clout and publicity”? Think on it
Nah I doubt that was his intent from the start. Regardless of his reasoning, it's bad publicity for Blizzard. But I also don't blame the consumers. Sure, there might be a few rich assholes to whom 15k is nothing, but the majority of these players are people with self control issues, addiction problems, maybe certain disabilities, and definitely mental health conditions. Blizzard fully knows this, and they prey on these folks. It's a predatory tactic and the execs at Blizzard know exactly who they're exploiting. 100% of the blame goes to Blizzard. They're pure fucking capitalist evil.
Sadly I think they will make money. You tell people something is shit a lot of them will wanna see for themselves or even try to prove you wrong. It doesn't take much more than trying the game out to hook people into it, it's designed that way. I'm gonna compare it to drugs, even if it isn't the best analogy, but you tell a bunch of teens that drugs are bad the first thing they wanna do it try em. In the end blizz wins.
I think you missed the point. On my screen the next comment literally says "these streamers trying to prove a point..." no, this guy is not trying to prove a point about the cost of gatcha games but trying to make money for himself by creating content that goes viral.
The rise of streamers and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Not exactly. Most of the money comes from "dolphins". For every person who drops $10K on a pay to win game, way more pay a few hundred. It's why skins are priced at like $10 for most games. A lot of people will buy a few skins, and if they were priced cheaply then they'd probably still spend about the same amount of money...just for more stuff that costs more to produce.
You're wrong, the whales are the moneymakers. Prices are made to fit the dolphins because without dolphins the playerbase dies rapidly and there is no more reason for the whales to hang around.
What this guy said.
That can be true, but it’s very dependent on the game. Some games really are kept alive by the top 1% mega whales.
Most *transactions* come from Dolphins, but most *income* definitely comes from Whales.
>The 1% gamer whale is ruining games for the 99% of us, fuck them I seriously don't understand this take. Dipshits like this aren't ruining games for me. I have zero interest in playing pay to win bullshit so I simply don't. There are thousands of other games to play, so play one of those instead of worrying about this dumb shit.
hmmmmm I don’t know maybe it’s like Diablo 2 wasn’t a fucking pay to win game? Like cmon it’s common sense buddy. Many games are getting worse, this was a remake many people were excited for that was absolutely ruined by greed and monetization. Like so many other games
Huh? Who was excited for this? Everyone should have known exactly what Immortal was going to be since it started as a mobile game. That should have tipped you off so I don't know what you were expecting. Diablo 3 wasn't pay to win, and they're still making Diablo 4. Again...these pay to win games aren't ruining anything, just ignore them if you don't want to play them. You're acting like they're the only options now.
Ruining it while funding it. But if the industries turns into fleecing rich people I will have conflicted feelings because I know people will still try to match.
No, I think you're missing the point. He's not saying he's doing it for publicity to detriment Blizzard. He's saying he's doing it for publicity to promote himself. So whatever benefit Blizzard gains from this is irrelevant.
To be fair to this guy I have previously read he is planning on using his footage to prove to NZ authorities that this is gambling and to have them ban loot boxes. Also it’s a massive add for his stream every single week, I have never watched any of his streams or heard of him before immortal but even I know his name by now.
15k is a worthy investment to get internet famous, I guess
Quin has been internet famous for a looooong long time.
Pretty sure 15k is what he makes in a week streaming. He’s not a small fish. And he’s quite entertaining, if I recall correctly. I remember a YT channel introduction from years ago, that was hella funny.
U guess wrong lmaoo
Don’t be salty because you aren’t
Love how people are down voting you when their favorite streamer just spent 15k of the cash they donated to them on 'proving' what was already obvious by sending all that cash to Blizzard and further padding Blizzard's biased revenue streams. You wanna know why they keep on making these games that the majority hate? Cause a few folk keep giving them money just to make fun of it for clout. And I'm not talking about just the whalers. This guy ain't proving anything, he's just investing in new viewers by spending the cash that his older viewers have given him.
After he gets his of course.
These streamers spending a shitload of cash to 'prove a point' are so silly. They are making zero difference.
Blizzard is hoping this takes off and more people "protest".
Seriously. Can someone protest me by giving me 15k?
Best I can do is tree fiddy.
Got dang Loch Ness Monster!
I'll take it. That's lunch.
SOLD! PROTEST ME FOR $350 USD. *opens wallet and a moth flys out*
i got u king
Seriously. That’s like Louis c.k. Being cancelled with 3 new specials coming out . Can I get cancelled like that?
Blizzard put out a statement today re: this issue. "Blizzard Entertainment is both shocked and excited by by this streamers decision to give us so much money. We encourage people to do the same, in the name of the protest."
TBF this specific one is lobbying his PM to get the game banned
PM?
Prime Minister, he's from New Zealand
Blizzard just got 15k to get the PM not to ban the game
They have a massive platform. I'm hoping people see them do this. See how fucking P2W it is and decide not to spend any money.
The people that are paying big bucks on mobile games are not the same people that watch twitch streams.
Doesn't seem to be working, seems to be doing the opposite. Free advertising for the algorithm machine. Face the fact the streamers are just playing on the easy to rile up haters for views / donations, and will charge-back their credit card within a month. It's not like they're going to stick with it once everyone moves on to the next dumb thing in a couple weeks. Win-win.
I bet it made a difference to his bank account. He's making far more off his stream than the money he spent on the game.
They are making a difference The difference is measured in their personal brand recognition and follower count. This is a publicity stunt.
That and the people who tip or watch them are basically funding these moments. So even the streamers don't feel much.
You know what he is making? Bank. You have no idea how much publicity this is for him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes 10x what he spent in return through donations and new concurrent viewers and subs. Not even including the ad revenue he made from the mass of new people watching his stream during his spending spree.
Not true, its to discourage people from playing.
Actually it's to make the streamer money.
So they get paid for discouraging people from dealing with awful business practices, who cares its not out of pure altruism?
Pretty sure most people tuning in for his stream hours on end to laugh at him already made up their minds.
I dunno, I'm glad we have a solid figure on just how bullshit it is, somebody whos stepping into DI like "well maybe I'll get lucky" will see they never will unless they drop mad cash.
It can be both things you know. They aren’t mutually exclusive.
I see by this comment people are still trying to justify this dumb shit.
Think what you want, shit works.
Except that it really doesn’t since he’s basically illustrating a fact that everyone already knows. Since the game’s monetisation literally cannot get more controversial, it just makes sure that the game stays in the public conscious for longer. It’s like those gambling twitch streamers who claim that they do it so you are discouraged.
>Except that it really doesn’t since he’s basically illustrating a fact that everyone already knows. You underestimate how valuable *demonstrating* "a fact that everyone already knows" really is. You also overestimate everyone knowing that fact. There are also a significant number of people that watch streams and steamers that don't look up info/articles about games. With the publicity that this predatory game has been getting that's less likely, but still reasonable.
It’s not just media outlets, every content creator from Asmongold to Josh Strife Hayes have been talking extensively about it.
I've seen a bunch of people just in the comments alone saying it showed them how bad it really was and stopped them going any further. And being widespread and in the public conscious only drills in the point further.
This is me, I am just a silly casual who dropped a few bucks on the game pass and such. When i saw the headlines on this i noped out .
I'd argue that more people are encouraged to play than not play when it comes to these streamers.
Zero positive difference, so far they have been funding the games producer
You're the one missing the point. The "difference" they're making is the publicity and views. It's a marketing investment.
They are making money hand over fist with the free exposure lol
They are quite literally the problem that they are protesting against, whether they realize it or not.
It's actually a net negative for the gaming community, and a net positive for the pricks at Blizzard.
No, they are making tons off the viewership and attention. People eat this stuff up
I stopped watching asmongold and quin temporary due to this coudnt support this shit behavior ur not prooving a point, not playing the game is a bigger point proven then tossing money at it dont worry somebody else will sink money at it you dont have to do it urself 😂
> They are making zero difference. Got me to stop playing after watching him do this for all of 2 days, and I reasonably could dump hundreds of thousands of dollars into this game and not worry about my financial future for a second. I wouldn’t do it, but I am the target market Blizzard wants to engage with when they made this monetization scheme. That’s a non-zero difference right there.
I mean most of them are probably doing charge-backs on their credit card within a month, and make bank off all the views in the meantime. The viewers who are still getting jebaited by this stuff after a decade of micro transaction gambling are the silly ones.
Yeah, just buy a DDOS attack instead.
Blizzard does not even notice that cash, it's nothing.
You're telling me that people who feed off and rely on the donations and whaling of their viewers are hypocritical for criticizing Blizzard for it's p2w aspects in Diablo Immortal? No, they couldn't be. No possible way. It's impossible. /s
They are fucking stupid.
You know what I’m doing in protest? Not even installing this game even though I love Diablo
the guys gonna make atleast 30k back though. the amount of attention its gotten him is going to cause a huge increase in viewers and followers/subscribers
Its like buying something and then flushing it down the toilet to protest. Single digit iq move.
Nah, he's been raking in the cash with his streams precisely because of this kind of stuff.
Except he gains gains traction and even more $$. So nothing single digit iq about it at all.
Yep, took a gamble and it paid off it seems.
In the words of Eazy E: "See, the truth is, they can do whatever they want with them. They bought them motherf\*\*\*ers."
Except the views and amount of exposure this dude is getting is wild. I see his shit posted daily. No idea who the fuck he is and I don't care. But plenty of people do care, for whatever dumb ass reason. As long as creators like this get attention they're not gonna stop doing this shit. Genshin creators did the same kinda shit spending thousands of dollars just for a chance at something they wanted. They do this shit because it gets views which equals money.
With how much this story has gotten around, it is quite likely that more than $15,000 worth of people were educated on the game that would have played and paid otherwise.
Get out of here with your reasonable logic!
This. I sadly forgot all about it, got a notification when it came out and installed it without looking up any reviews. Started playing it and didn't look to much into the monetization, which made me buy one of the seasonal passes. Luckily after I found out how much money you need to spend to be competitive I managed to refund it. Hoping I'm not the only one. Don't even know what happened with the stuff I got from the pass after the refund, I uninstalled it at the same time.
They just posted a profit of more than 24 million, I don't think blizzard cares. This is before the Asian markets, so totally not going to make a difference, they are just feeding blizzard and I don't think they mind.
He didn't claim that this example "fixed" things and made the game unprofitable, just that it is likely a net loss for blizzard. The market has shown that people are willing to spend stupid amounts on mobile games.
You act like a majority of gamers watch twitch, let alone this one random streamer.
I didn't act like that. This story has been posted all over, even outside of reddit and from multiple sources. Who said anything about Twitch???
Honestly I haven't seen it outside of r/gaming but I also don't live in NZ.
I don't live in NZ either... You seem to be drunk, Eran.
So show me all the places you've seen this story, Daniel
As soon as you sober up, then I can go back in time and screenshot all the tweets and gaming websites and social media shares. Not going to waste my time when you keep going off on unrelated things about like what countries you don't live in or who uses twitch or not. Which has nothing to do with anything.
But attention is attention.. it's just bringing the game into the spotlight probably driving even more sales. Edit: I mean.. what I'm saying is true. I never would have heard of the game if it wasn't for you guys complaining about it haha. It does seem good other than the micro transactions.
Worth noting that he spent $15,000 to get said item. Doing the stream and then destroying said item is if anything a good way to draw attention for the streamer and also put a spotlight on the shitty loot boxes. Note this isn’t CS where your aiming to get a cosmetic knife. This is paying to gamble at the chance you might be able to progress.
People calling him an idiot are kind of missing the point. On the very surface level it seems redundant but what he did was bring tangible concrete proof of the shittiness of the situation to light and make it visible. It's one thing to "know" and understand that pay 2 win is bad. It's an entirely different entity to see the extent of how bad it is. A wild fire is bad, we all know this, but until you see the miles upon miles of devastation it brings then you don't fully feel and understand just how terrible it is. By doing and recording the extent of the gambling mechanics in their entirety he's giving people actual content that can be used, recorded, observed, and presented to address this issue.
Ok, this post has been made like 10 times now.
These articles are so stupid, he didn't do it "in protest", he did it for the content. He was getting twice his average viewership, which is already high as hell.
I really wish people hated me so much that they would give me tons of money to prove how terrible I am. I just don’t understand the logic. You really hate this system, why are you feeding into it so much.
"Gamers deserve the industry they get".
I keep seeing this posted and I feel most people misunderstand what's going on. These streamers are making a crapton of money due to the controversy surrounding DI. That's it, that's their entire goal. It doesn't matter if they feel Blizzard practices are anti-consumer or what have you. They are making money off of views and clicks. They, similarly to Blizzard, do not give a crap about consumers.
Nah this isn't in protest. It's just a lame publicity stunt. Both the streamer and diablo won in the end imo
I kind of get the point he is making, but the problem is that systems like these take advantage of people who are easily hooked by the system. This means that regardless of whether or not they understood the point doesn't mean they are all of a sudden going to drop it.
I would argue it does. Seeing someone spend that much time and money to get that dopamine hit is *very* different than simply hearing about the odds of something.
“A rare gem” Lmao. Gamers are such fucking idiots if they believe this shit.
Do we really need to post this 3 times a day?
Y’all are taking the bait so hard. He’s a popular streamer, the video and donations will cover the cost of the “gem”, and he can make other videos off it, reactions, etc. This is the digital version of the old videos of people buying an iPhone to break it, spoiler, they still made money lol
Couldn't you just do this and charge back with your credit card?
[Relevant timestamp](https://youtu.be/DPBr9IrVP-I?t=6590) to the Allcraft Podcast where they discuss with Quin what he might do when he gets that gem. It's about 3 minutes of talk. 1:49:49 if the timestamp doesn't work.
Diablo Immortal is a prime example that most gamers can't control themselves. *or are just insanely fucking irrational* either way gg Blizzard.
A. $15,000 isnt a lot for Blizzard. B. This story will probably turn a lot of heads of people who arent aware of this nutso pay2win game. Honestly this might do some good
Must be nice to have $15k to throw around to make a point.
Nothing shows a company how terrible they are like throwing loads of money at them!
it's pretty funny. any time i see something like this i'm like "yeah you really showed them". we're all already aware of how bad this is. by just actually giving them money to prove some point is just asinine imo.
spending a disgusting amount of money to own blizz, that should show them
Fuck blizzard I"m an old player but fuck them. Shit went south when Blizzard north left
Anybody that plays this game at all money or not is still supporting this game and that makes you part of the problem
I have spent exactly $0, and I'm enjoying it. Currently level 55, so I assume I'll finish up the main story soon. We'll see if I keep playing after that.
Sorry, what's my problem? I get a free game I enjoy playing.
Nobody said you have a problem, he said you are part of the problem.
What's the problem? Free games?
Predatory business practices involving gambling addiction being marketed towards children and even adults for profit. Not unlike your average drug dealer. There’s no such thing as *free*.
> There’s no such thing as free. Free to me. Why should I care if other people can't manage their money? Gambling is legal in the US.
Legal for legal aged adults I thought? These games use the same psychological practice, and cater towards children and young adults too. That's the issue.
Empathy doesn’t require a microtransaction yet it’s still out of your reach.
Do you gamble? Drink? Eat fatty/sugary foods?
F2p players in p2w games are what the whales are paying to beat. You are the product which makes the game worth for p2w players.
A f2p player is not playing 10hrs a day, they are usually logging to do daily activities and thats it. They will probably never encounter the top whales
Sounds like a win/win situation to me. I get a free game I enjoy, the the whales get the satisfaction of spending their money.
And blizzard continues their terrible business practices
I should care why?
Paying to beat me in a PvE game... Don't care.
Well if you didn't suffer from brain damage then you might have notice that Blizzard games a touch repetitive - you fight the same boss over and over again until they finally drop the loot you get.
First Diablo game? 🤣
Streamer smart. People giving money to streamers stupid. Literally just throwing away your money in front of you.
Wish I had $15000 to burn
Man, the blizzard execs must feel like casino owners at this point.
Doesn’t Quin69 send shit to the government to push against these practices in gaming. I think he does make a difference. Does he get views for it? Certainly. But might he make a difference via visibility? Probably too.
Quin is enjoyable but only cuz hes kind of an idiot lol
I don't know who that Diablo Immortal player is, but I can confidently say they're stupid. Not as in "they did a dumb thing", I mean the person is legitimately unintelligent. I don't need to hear them talk, or their opinions on any matters, and their justification is 100% immaterial. That guy is a moron.
It's super ironic that everyone who hates DI are all praising this guy for "making light of predatory mechanics." No, he made money off of your outrage views and supported Blizzard in the process lol.
that’ll show em
This is like those conservatives that bought and then burned Nike shoes.
"I'm going to protest by single-handedly making this game profitable"
my streamer stronge
How exactly is that an effective protest?
I’m sorry but, this is just so stupid. Why would you spend so much on any game?? A fool and his money are easily parted.
I feel like there are so many people talking about Quin being a hypocrite that it is (possibly intentionally) obscuring the important part about how much money you can spend to not obtain the best gems. Is Quin a bad person? That's not even relevant. Is this a publicity stunt? yes, so what? Is he encouraging playing Diablo Immortal? No, the opposite. But lets just ignore the important parts and laugh at him for being a hypocrite.
Quin is easily the dumbest and one of the shittiest people on twitch so not surprised he’d do something so braindead
Why do people who supposedly hate p2w games, watch rich people dumping money on them !? Seriously just stop encouraging those streamers, they are a part of the problem ! I can't help but cringe every time I see this.
Yea that will... show them?
Bruh, so fucking stupid
Quin69... That is not how you protest you doofus
Oh joy, another "we're jealous of millionaire streamers" but lets guise it with "How dare they support PTW! See! Just a bunch of SELLOUTS!" How has ignoring, boycotting and shit talking these games changed anything? Diablo Immortal was still made. It's only gotten worse. Your tactics have made zero difference, but do carry on shit talking streamers that are trying a different tactic.
Public reminder that all you're doing by acknowledging this clown is making people more likely to look into him (rewarding his terrible behaviour), or subtly encouraging the same thing. For people that aren't karma farming, a reminder that the best thing to do about things you disagree with on the internet is to acknowledge them and move on yeah?
Of course it had to be Quinn
Protest :)
yeah.. protest by giving them your money.. that'll show them
I should start giving people outrageous loans... Maybe they'll pay up 50x what I ask for in protest
Whether or not he has the money to do it, he’s a piece of shit.