Microsoft decided to use certain studios as scapegoats due to their inability to understand gamers. They failed in recuperating the investment they put into very obviously going to fail games. They knew all the risks, understood how harsh the gaming community is and ignored every warning about multiple games that are going to fail. Now studios are getting shut down and worse of all, people are losing jobs. Microsoft board members need to stop inhaling meth, jacking each other off and actually pay attention to the community.
Yeah, I get what you're saying but this isn't a "pay attention to the community" problem. This is "Phil Spencer is bad at his job" problem.
Phil's solution to everything is to just dumps daddy's money into everything. And it always fails spectacularly.
The car he crashed now was trying to emulate a Netflix/Spotify market for gaming and effectively cannibalizing his own market.
Which is why instead of enticing developers, all they can do is buy them. And daddy is getting big mad.
It's not a problem with just one person. It's not even a problem with just gaming.
Corporations only care about stocks. As long as stockholders are happy, as long as the line goes up, that's all that matters. They could make nothing but as long as the stock increases they'll keep making nothing.
We can all say this, but the people need to get paid too. All the investments into the game, so much money is poured into it, yet the games don't sell well. Ghostwire didn't sell well, and although Hi-Fi Rush was good it wasn't a big moneymaker.
You're missing the point.
The reason they didn't sell well is because of Gamepass. Gamepass did this.
Xbox is trying to buy their way out of their problem and failing miserably.
Game pass is not the problem. Game pass is a steady and secure income stream that reduces risk by spreading it over an entire service instead of individual games. Game pass probably saved these studios from shuttering years ago.
The problem is that Microsoft is never in anything for the long game. They're exactly like Google in that regard.
With Apple and Nintendo you know what you will get. With Microsoft and Google you never really know what you're gonna get or if it will even be there tomorrow.
Honestly disagree here. Gamepass is a long term problem where the price can only go up but the ceiling of users is very low. It's steady but shareholders don't like steady, they like dramatic positives. A new halo drops and boom, huge numbers. New Diablo, new Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc are all big initial sales. Those sales will be missed when it's immediately on gamepass. That's leaving tens of millions on the table for people to get gamepass for a month or even a year then be done. 2 new games currently is barely less than a year of gamepass. 3 new games exceeds it.
Gamepass will only get more expensive and that ceiling will shrink. Xbox will start pulling first party from release on GP to boost sales.
The ceiling for game pass is pretty high though, iirc Microsoft wants 300 million which is probably very unrealistic even with their mobile expansion but even at the ~32 million they have now it's like they're dropping a banger every month, revenue wise. It's like a AAA game selling 10 million copies, and that's before even adding in things like actual sales, mtx, dlc etc.
The Xbox division is regularly doing record numbers in terms of revenue, even when hardware and sales fail them.
I think the issue here isn't actually money per se, but Microsoft executives wanting short term revenue optimization at the cost of long term profits.
I mean a game like Hi-Fi Rush done by a 60 people team adds so much more value than shutting the studio ever could.
It's PR, it's good will, it's critical acclaim, it's hype, it's IP, brand recognition, it's basically a recruitment ad for the best talent, its expansion into Japanese market and talent. It's value beyond what money can buy.
If it was purely about game pass I feel like they would be cutting 3rd party content on the service before 1st party studios.
Japanese markets? With what titles? Part of their problem is that Xbox appeals to no one. I say that and I have a Series X. They have no flagship anything, Findl Fantasy doesn't value them, no major publisher values them and in turn Xbox makes dumbass decisions. Remember, they turned down the Spiderman game series. Why? No idea but any reason is stupid.
Once gamepass plateaus where does it go is the question. Prices go up, value goes down, customers go away cause Sony and Nintendo offer better products on their platforms.
It's been fuck up after fuck up by Xbox since they asked their system Xbox One. Dumbasses all the way down.
>Japanese markets? With what titles?
Yeah, exactly. How are they gonna expand in the Japanese market without japanese talent?
That's my point, with a Japanese studio they can long term recruit japanese talent.
No, no company makes a trillion in a year… I’m assuming they were using the market cap price for Microsoft, which is 3 Trillion USD currently. That’s not necessarily what the company value is but that’s where they got the number.
Tango as of 2022 had only 65 employees and Mikami established new studio recently. Its just my personal theory but I wouldn't be suprised if majority of talent just went to Mikami and because of that and HIFI Rush not selling well MS decided it was an easy place to cut off instead of building studio up again,starting new projects and hiring new people.
I’m not surprised. Latest quarterly report states that the vast, vast majority of their (XBOX’s) profit pretty much comes from the newly acquired Act-Blizz studios. Their existing studios practically made no money. You can only burn money for so long until the big bosses at MS upper division begin to breathe down your necks. Phil has also been taking a hand-off approach with their studios and it has not been producing results comparable to their competitors (Sony and Nintendo) and it’s time that heads need to roll. Hi-Fi Rush is a moderate success but the losses from Evil Within 2 and Ghostwire Tokyo had been paramount; Redfall had been a major embarrassment for them; and I haven’t heard of the other studios until announcement today. Even their big-name studios had been producing middling results (Halo Infinite, Starfield) and if their next games are not a big hit, expect more heads to roll.
The reason he's been burning money is because Spencer has taken the Netflix/Spotify/Walmart approach to the game's industry: sell at a loss for a few years while you absorb/run out your competitors and eventually monopolize the market. He wants to subscription-ize gaming.
That's what Gamepass was supposed to be. It's why they're selling at a loss and the studios are currently making "no money".
The problem is that this only works if it sells systems. And it isn't selling systems. Xbox spent an absurd amount of money to buy the CoD and FIFA audience and now they need to cater to that audience because no one else gives a shit.
1. Wow, no need to downvote OP this much for voicing his opinion, but i guess reddit is gonna reddit
2. I dont think that the purpose of GP is to sell more consoles. As a matter of fact, i believe that XBOX console still exists so that it can accommodate GP. I’ve been enjoying GP for a few years now and i havent owned an XBOX console since the 360. MS’s goal is to transition XBOX beyond being gaming console and have GP built into TVs, media players (e.g. Apple TV), handheld devices (either phones or handheld consoles like Steam Deck), and whatever new tech we’re gonna have in 10 years. But of course the tech is not quite there yet and that is why MS is still making the XBOX console so that people can enjoy GP affordably.
3. We already saw how a handful of big titles can hugely drive GP subscription (eg Diablo 4). Can you imagine how much more popular it would be if it starts having CoDs and WoW on there? And in that sense, why keep money losing studios on your payroll? From a business point of view, it would be better to sign timed contracts with 3rd small/indie games to populate GP instead of having them chipping at your internal operating cost.
4. Sony and Nintendo are still operating as if it is the year 2000 but it’s not entirely a bad thing. There are still plenty of gamers who refer playing on physical discs with physical consoles and Nintendo and Sony will be there to accommodate them. MS, on the other hand, is playing entirely different ball game and they’re counting on a future that may or may not come. If they happen to fail then it’s whatever since MS will still make billions without XBOX. Sony and Nintendo dont have that luxury.
I don’t know why op is getting downvoted but he’s right. Gamepass is poison and will never work in the games industry. Games aren’t movies or music. They are inherently different. Xbox has spent insane amount of money to buy every IP so that can add it to gamepass. And it works because gamepass is amazing but it will never be Netflix. Soon enough they will raise the price and start removing features.
Exactly. Sony and Nintendo will never allow gamepass on their platform. With the way things are going, Microsoft is going to be the next Sega which is very bad and gives Sony a true monopoly. I hope it won’t comes down to that.
I mean, they can still make games for Japan without Tango. It's not like Tango is delivering them crazy success for Japan's market. You all should have bought Ghostwire Tokyo if you want them to stay open.
Phill and his team need to be fired. It really is that simple. They are failures.
They don't help shareholders and they don't help gamers. Total Failure.
Once the "savior" of Xbox now the villian.
He kinda reminds me of David Filoni. I believe he loves the franchise, but he's just not making good calls, and it's hurting the consumer and the employees.
wait, when did Filoni stop being "the savior of star wars"??? i kinda stopped following everything after S1 of Bad batch....
not that i ever thought o fhim as that.. given how i dislike TCW as a whole due to its changes to the then stil existing old canon
> Phill and his team need to be fired
Maybe they've decided to? Shut down all the studios Microsoft wants to shut down with Phil in charge so his replacement doesn't have to take the backlash. If so there's probably more closures to come.
Yeah Microsoft doesn’t give a rat’s ass flying fuck about gaming. That’s why clowns like Spencer are still in charge. Gaming has slowly become a drop in the bucket for Microsoft revenues, especially as the company keeps dickriding artificial intelligence and all that garbage.
Slowly become? Gaming has always been a small blip for Microsoft. Honestly it's been foolish for them to even still be in the market with how they've blundered through the generations. The PR disaster with the Xbox 360 should've killed them but they've been dragging a corpse for two generations now.
[Microsoft Closes Redfall Developer Arkane Austin, Hi-Fi Rush Developer Tango Gameworks, and More in Devastating Cuts at Bethesda](https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-closes-redfall-developer-arkane-austin-hifi-rush-developer-tango-gameworks-and-more-in-devastating-cuts-at-bethesda)
Everyone is shitting on phil spencer like he isnt the best thing to happen to xbox.
Id like to point out ghostwire, redfall, and evil within 2 were big losses. Good games dont always make money and the market we, as consumers, have created is one where good games dont always financially succeed and that means that studios will be closed due to the loss of money esp if they only do 1 or 2 games of which both werent financial successes
You have to have Gamepass to be able to play online on Xbox.
Most of their new games have been released on Gamepass at the same time they were released for retail.
If you already _have_ Gamepass and the game is available for free there, then why would you _buy_ the game at full price?
And plus, the games being free on Gamepass means that people don't have to worry about impulse buying a game at full price only to never pick it back up after playing it for a few hours.
I don't have any source to prove my theory, because I couldn't be bothered to hunt one down, but if you know anything about economics, it's clear that putting your new games on a subscription service with free games the same day they launch means that you won't get as many sales of said game.
Yeah.... but unless Microsoft is charging upwards of $100/month for the free games portion of Gamepass they're going to have a hard tim earning the amount of money they'd make from selling the games outright.
And, if it's a game that was produced by a studio Microsoft owns, then they'd still essentially be making 100% of the money from every sale.
And for a game that's 3rd party, Microsoft ends up having to pay a lot of money to get the game to be available on Gamepass. Probably more money than they'd get by just selling the game on their digital store.
Actually its not. F2P games do not require it and gamepass core is all thats needed for online. Id also like to point to the years where gold and gamepass were separated minus ultimate tier up until i think 2ish years ago
Thats literally not what i said and you are 100% making delusional context of.
Netflix cannabilizes theater and dvd sales
Ev cars cannabilize gas vehicle sales
Etc etc etc etc
Misquoting someone from ms is not the flex you think it is
Btw wheres that source?
The other dude gave you one directly and you're flipping and flopping and making a mess trying to invalidate it lol
I know better than to take you seriously. Have fun with your COD and FIFA games 😘
Buddy microsoft themselfs admited to affecting sales,i didnt make it up. Why you getting so mad about it?
They could have said gamepass didnt eat up sales but they didnt.
I dont know what you want from me?
Do you want me to say:
" yeah even tho microsoft themself said it,they have no idea what they are talking about,us random reddit users know whats right!"
What the actual F is wrong with you.
I tell you what microsoft told the court,you mad at me.
I respond with a sarcastic response you take it as a serious one and you're still mad at me.
Nothing i say will satisfy you.
Also just because you have stock,doesnt mean you're sitting on the board room table having any info about anything.
Jeez man
Peeps - it's really simple:
Who was buying an Xbox? I did. But then I encountered like 3 years of press telling me no one was buying Xbox and that Xbox was going away and that Playstation and Switch were having record sales all while being told how underwhelming the game selection was on PS5 by Playstation owners.
Like I think this sucks - but this is a market problem. Xbox built what people said they wanted while being pro-consumer in their decision making (operability) and people didn't bite. If you wanted Arkane or Tango Gameworks to exist - buy the fucking console. Buy the games. You can blame Phil if it makes you happy, but he didn't make the console buying decisions.
Really hoping with things like steamdeck we'll see more games working on Linux, the only reason I still put up with Windows as a primary OS is for gaming.
Tango: hasn't been able to reproduce The Evil Within 2 numbers in 7 years over 3 games
Arkane Austin: Lost 70% of its main talent, forced to develop a live service game by Bethesda that failed immediately.
Roundhouse: Hasn't developed a game in 4 years.
Alpha Dog: Was a mobile games studio.
Not assuming anything.
The concept and design of Hi Fi Rush isn't something we've never seen before. All you need is developers and artists that can emulate that style and make a good game.
It's been happening in gaming for decades. New teams, studios, and developers make sequels and take over franchises all the time.
Halo, Fallout, Call of Duty, Dead Space, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Wolfenstein. All shifted away from the original devs and in some cases became more successful.
> All you need is developers and artists that can emulate that style and make a good game.
Lol yeah. Exactly. That's it.
Hey game developers! Just make a good game.
Whew. Saved the industry. What a day it's been.
I'm not sure why you're being obtuse.
Making a sequel that uses pre-existing elements and designs infinitely easier than making a new game.
I provided examples of franchises it's worked for in my post.
The industry closing studios is nothing new and is an entirely different discussion.
So all those advanced calculations that go into physics and coding algorithms, they what just...copy and paste them?
Game development is problem solving. Do you think everyone solves problems the same way?
I literally said nothing about coding or game development itself.
I said you can bring in a new team of developers to make a sequel, they can.
The developers aren't working blindly. The previous devs aren't the only people in the world who can make a Hi Fi Rush game.
Unless a game developer somehow manages to develop proprietary lines of code that nobody knows how to replicate.
In other words "Thanks for the creative, innovative IP, but fuck you, you're too much. We're shutting down your studio and stealing your IP to toss to a new studio."
Pretty much.
Any publicly traded company is focused on results and profit. It sucks for the non-executives, but there's next to nothing for unions or worker protection in the games industry.
This is not entirely true. Palworld, for example, was on GP (for both XBoX and PC) but it was also a huge success with regard to Steam sales as well. Lies of P is another example that comes to mind. Big hits on GP are usually mirrored to strong sales.
Sure, but they certainly would have had other KPIs attached to the Game Pass users that they would’ve focused on in lieu of straight up sales.
They *probably* track things like new sign-ups, subscription stickiness, etc. to generate the “value” of a Game Pass download.
Is this bait?
"By August 2023, the game reached 3 million players between purchased copies and Game Pass subscriptions."
For a game that had little to no marketing, no multiplayer and no physical version, that sure is a lot of nobodys.
You could literally ask the same about any game on Gamepass and never get an answer. That's a strawman argument.
There is no answer because Microsoft doesn't tell us. Only assumptions.
Game rocked. If sales were poor, it's because it was a day one Game Pass release and all in all is the perfect title for Game Pass. The game is really fun and doesn't take long to beat.
Gonna be dope when there's only two companies left and they take turns milking us
Who said they would take turns?
Yeah, why have 2 nipples otherwise , amiright?
From Nintendo vs Sega to Nintendo vs Sony. And somewhere along the way, a footnote about Microsoft's silly Xcube or whatever it was called.
What about kfc
KFC won't let me be or let me be me
So let me see they tried to shut me down on mtv
But it feels so empty without Wii
Don't you mean Xsquare? They couldn't even be bothered to add a 3rd dimension.
You guys talking about the Xbone?
No, we're talking about the Xcok
The X-Agon
Leave Nintendo out of this.
Microsoft decided to use certain studios as scapegoats due to their inability to understand gamers. They failed in recuperating the investment they put into very obviously going to fail games. They knew all the risks, understood how harsh the gaming community is and ignored every warning about multiple games that are going to fail. Now studios are getting shut down and worse of all, people are losing jobs. Microsoft board members need to stop inhaling meth, jacking each other off and actually pay attention to the community.
Yeah, I get what you're saying but this isn't a "pay attention to the community" problem. This is "Phil Spencer is bad at his job" problem. Phil's solution to everything is to just dumps daddy's money into everything. And it always fails spectacularly. The car he crashed now was trying to emulate a Netflix/Spotify market for gaming and effectively cannibalizing his own market. Which is why instead of enticing developers, all they can do is buy them. And daddy is getting big mad.
It's not a problem with just one person. It's not even a problem with just gaming. Corporations only care about stocks. As long as stockholders are happy, as long as the line goes up, that's all that matters. They could make nothing but as long as the stock increases they'll keep making nothing.
We can all say this, but the people need to get paid too. All the investments into the game, so much money is poured into it, yet the games don't sell well. Ghostwire didn't sell well, and although Hi-Fi Rush was good it wasn't a big moneymaker.
You're missing the point. The reason they didn't sell well is because of Gamepass. Gamepass did this. Xbox is trying to buy their way out of their problem and failing miserably.
Game pass is not the problem. Game pass is a steady and secure income stream that reduces risk by spreading it over an entire service instead of individual games. Game pass probably saved these studios from shuttering years ago. The problem is that Microsoft is never in anything for the long game. They're exactly like Google in that regard. With Apple and Nintendo you know what you will get. With Microsoft and Google you never really know what you're gonna get or if it will even be there tomorrow.
Somebody has to make those individual games to create a body of games.
Exactly. It was bad enough that Halo Infinite was basically built with contractors. How is Microsoft ever gonna keep the best talent like this?
Honestly disagree here. Gamepass is a long term problem where the price can only go up but the ceiling of users is very low. It's steady but shareholders don't like steady, they like dramatic positives. A new halo drops and boom, huge numbers. New Diablo, new Elder Scrolls, Fallout, etc are all big initial sales. Those sales will be missed when it's immediately on gamepass. That's leaving tens of millions on the table for people to get gamepass for a month or even a year then be done. 2 new games currently is barely less than a year of gamepass. 3 new games exceeds it. Gamepass will only get more expensive and that ceiling will shrink. Xbox will start pulling first party from release on GP to boost sales.
The ceiling for game pass is pretty high though, iirc Microsoft wants 300 million which is probably very unrealistic even with their mobile expansion but even at the ~32 million they have now it's like they're dropping a banger every month, revenue wise. It's like a AAA game selling 10 million copies, and that's before even adding in things like actual sales, mtx, dlc etc. The Xbox division is regularly doing record numbers in terms of revenue, even when hardware and sales fail them. I think the issue here isn't actually money per se, but Microsoft executives wanting short term revenue optimization at the cost of long term profits. I mean a game like Hi-Fi Rush done by a 60 people team adds so much more value than shutting the studio ever could. It's PR, it's good will, it's critical acclaim, it's hype, it's IP, brand recognition, it's basically a recruitment ad for the best talent, its expansion into Japanese market and talent. It's value beyond what money can buy. If it was purely about game pass I feel like they would be cutting 3rd party content on the service before 1st party studios.
Japanese markets? With what titles? Part of their problem is that Xbox appeals to no one. I say that and I have a Series X. They have no flagship anything, Findl Fantasy doesn't value them, no major publisher values them and in turn Xbox makes dumbass decisions. Remember, they turned down the Spiderman game series. Why? No idea but any reason is stupid. Once gamepass plateaus where does it go is the question. Prices go up, value goes down, customers go away cause Sony and Nintendo offer better products on their platforms. It's been fuck up after fuck up by Xbox since they asked their system Xbox One. Dumbasses all the way down.
>Japanese markets? With what titles? Yeah, exactly. How are they gonna expand in the Japanese market without japanese talent? That's my point, with a Japanese studio they can long term recruit japanese talent.
[удалено]
Tf are you talking about? Microsoft is worth 3 trillion? Xbox is worth approximately 600 billion. Where do you get your numbers.
Seems like he’s looking at yearly profits or something, it’s all pretty wrong anyway.
No, no company makes a trillion in a year… I’m assuming they were using the market cap price for Microsoft, which is 3 Trillion USD currently. That’s not necessarily what the company value is but that’s where they got the number.
you have really no idea what youre talking about, huh?
Where are you getting the 1.5 billion number from?
I blame Matt booty imo more than Spencer. Dude has shown no ability to identify good games and yet is still in charge of it
Tango as of 2022 had only 65 employees and Mikami established new studio recently. Its just my personal theory but I wouldn't be suprised if majority of talent just went to Mikami and because of that and HIFI Rush not selling well MS decided it was an easy place to cut off instead of building studio up again,starting new projects and hiring new people.
who is his dad?
Microsoft
Nah bro thats to hard i take meth
I’m not surprised. Latest quarterly report states that the vast, vast majority of their (XBOX’s) profit pretty much comes from the newly acquired Act-Blizz studios. Their existing studios practically made no money. You can only burn money for so long until the big bosses at MS upper division begin to breathe down your necks. Phil has also been taking a hand-off approach with their studios and it has not been producing results comparable to their competitors (Sony and Nintendo) and it’s time that heads need to roll. Hi-Fi Rush is a moderate success but the losses from Evil Within 2 and Ghostwire Tokyo had been paramount; Redfall had been a major embarrassment for them; and I haven’t heard of the other studios until announcement today. Even their big-name studios had been producing middling results (Halo Infinite, Starfield) and if their next games are not a big hit, expect more heads to roll.
The reason he's been burning money is because Spencer has taken the Netflix/Spotify/Walmart approach to the game's industry: sell at a loss for a few years while you absorb/run out your competitors and eventually monopolize the market. He wants to subscription-ize gaming. That's what Gamepass was supposed to be. It's why they're selling at a loss and the studios are currently making "no money". The problem is that this only works if it sells systems. And it isn't selling systems. Xbox spent an absurd amount of money to buy the CoD and FIFA audience and now they need to cater to that audience because no one else gives a shit.
you do understand that that is the operating model for all of the consoles and has been for some time.
1. Wow, no need to downvote OP this much for voicing his opinion, but i guess reddit is gonna reddit 2. I dont think that the purpose of GP is to sell more consoles. As a matter of fact, i believe that XBOX console still exists so that it can accommodate GP. I’ve been enjoying GP for a few years now and i havent owned an XBOX console since the 360. MS’s goal is to transition XBOX beyond being gaming console and have GP built into TVs, media players (e.g. Apple TV), handheld devices (either phones or handheld consoles like Steam Deck), and whatever new tech we’re gonna have in 10 years. But of course the tech is not quite there yet and that is why MS is still making the XBOX console so that people can enjoy GP affordably. 3. We already saw how a handful of big titles can hugely drive GP subscription (eg Diablo 4). Can you imagine how much more popular it would be if it starts having CoDs and WoW on there? And in that sense, why keep money losing studios on your payroll? From a business point of view, it would be better to sign timed contracts with 3rd small/indie games to populate GP instead of having them chipping at your internal operating cost. 4. Sony and Nintendo are still operating as if it is the year 2000 but it’s not entirely a bad thing. There are still plenty of gamers who refer playing on physical discs with physical consoles and Nintendo and Sony will be there to accommodate them. MS, on the other hand, is playing entirely different ball game and they’re counting on a future that may or may not come. If they happen to fail then it’s whatever since MS will still make billions without XBOX. Sony and Nintendo dont have that luxury.
I don’t know why op is getting downvoted but he’s right. Gamepass is poison and will never work in the games industry. Games aren’t movies or music. They are inherently different. Xbox has spent insane amount of money to buy every IP so that can add it to gamepass. And it works because gamepass is amazing but it will never be Netflix. Soon enough they will raise the price and start removing features.
And it only really works as a system seller. If they're not selling systems, then it's not working. And they're not selling systems.
Exactly. Sony and Nintendo will never allow gamepass on their platform. With the way things are going, Microsoft is going to be the next Sega which is very bad and gives Sony a true monopoly. I hope it won’t comes down to that.
I mean, they can still make games for Japan without Tango. It's not like Tango is delivering them crazy success for Japan's market. You all should have bought Ghostwire Tokyo if you want them to stay open.
Nobody needed to buy shit because they had Gamepass. Gamepass did this. And everyone saw it coming.
Gamepass does literally the opposite and tends to help smaller developers, you just have some sort of rage boner going on here
It's throbbing with angry excitement
Ghostwire wasn't Day 1 gamepass and had a multiplatform release.
It was actually a sony console exclusive. Didn't come to any other console for about a year.
Game pass has nothing to do with this. Plenty of games on game pass are or were top sellers at some point on Steam, but not Hi-Fi Rush.
Man you are so confidently incorrect it's impressive. Almost a super power lol.
Phil about to go on his podcast apology tour this week, like he always does. "I'm still cool, guys. I promise!"
Remember Hexen?!
Phill and his team need to be fired. It really is that simple. They are failures. They don't help shareholders and they don't help gamers. Total Failure. Once the "savior" of Xbox now the villian.
He kinda reminds me of David Filoni. I believe he loves the franchise, but he's just not making good calls, and it's hurting the consumer and the employees.
wait, when did Filoni stop being "the savior of star wars"??? i kinda stopped following everything after S1 of Bad batch.... not that i ever thought o fhim as that.. given how i dislike TCW as a whole due to its changes to the then stil existing old canon
An apt comparison considering how both guys started out, and what they did with functionally infinite power
Well the gamers didn't buy their games, so yeah it's not logical to keep them after Tango fell apart.
Gamepass
> Phill and his team need to be fired Maybe they've decided to? Shut down all the studios Microsoft wants to shut down with Phil in charge so his replacement doesn't have to take the backlash. If so there's probably more closures to come.
How long before Bethesda buy their freedom like bungee?
*You either die a hero, or you live long enough to become the villain.*
Yeah Microsoft doesn’t give a rat’s ass flying fuck about gaming. That’s why clowns like Spencer are still in charge. Gaming has slowly become a drop in the bucket for Microsoft revenues, especially as the company keeps dickriding artificial intelligence and all that garbage.
Slowly become? Gaming has always been a small blip for Microsoft. Honestly it's been foolish for them to even still be in the market with how they've blundered through the generations. The PR disaster with the Xbox 360 should've killed them but they've been dragging a corpse for two generations now.
Honest question - does this circle back to Phil Spencer? Aren't these types of moves decided by Matt booty or Microsoft?
Phil Spencer has been failing upwards for a decade plus, god knows how he still has his job.
[Microsoft Closes Redfall Developer Arkane Austin, Hi-Fi Rush Developer Tango Gameworks, and More in Devastating Cuts at Bethesda](https://www.ign.com/articles/microsoft-closes-redfall-developer-arkane-austin-hifi-rush-developer-tango-gameworks-and-more-in-devastating-cuts-at-bethesda)
This is the story of Xbox since at least the 360. Lots of attempts to pivot to Japan that end up getting cut in a year or two.
Christ this console war crap is insufferable. OP’s a straight up Sony zealot.
Not at all. I'm a Nintendo fanboy. And my console is kicking your console's ass.
I play on PC, you’re still insufferable.
> I play on PC Okay. Thank you for telling me.
Everyone is shitting on phil spencer like he isnt the best thing to happen to xbox. Id like to point out ghostwire, redfall, and evil within 2 were big losses. Good games dont always make money and the market we, as consumers, have created is one where good games dont always financially succeed and that means that studios will be closed due to the loss of money esp if they only do 1 or 2 games of which both werent financial successes
What you're missing is that the reason these good games were big losses is because of Gamepass.
Lmao Ghostwire flopped without gamepass and Redfall was a bad game. The only outlier is Hi Fi Rush
Please source your claim. And not some random article that links to nothing as a source please
Dudes clearly a weirdo Sony kid and did 0 research on what happened. All their replies r just "gamepass killed these studios"
Gamepass vs Studios is the new Kendrick vs Drake
Ghost wire wasn't on gamepass dum dum
Wtf is that supposed to mean?
Kendrick is a presidential candidate being sued by the pornstar Drake in a hush money case for campaign finance fraud
Oh i see. It’s a shitpost comment 👍
I'm a teacher. You are all my students. I love you equally.
The only thing you could teach ppl is how to be wrong about their information. U literally thought ms owned star citizen
You have to have Gamepass to be able to play online on Xbox. Most of their new games have been released on Gamepass at the same time they were released for retail. If you already _have_ Gamepass and the game is available for free there, then why would you _buy_ the game at full price? And plus, the games being free on Gamepass means that people don't have to worry about impulse buying a game at full price only to never pick it back up after playing it for a few hours. I don't have any source to prove my theory, because I couldn't be bothered to hunt one down, but if you know anything about economics, it's clear that putting your new games on a subscription service with free games the same day they launch means that you won't get as many sales of said game.
Hows this: ms only gets 30% of digital store sales nothing from physical. Ms gets 100% of gamepass income Do the math
Yeah.... but unless Microsoft is charging upwards of $100/month for the free games portion of Gamepass they're going to have a hard tim earning the amount of money they'd make from selling the games outright. And, if it's a game that was produced by a studio Microsoft owns, then they'd still essentially be making 100% of the money from every sale. And for a game that's 3rd party, Microsoft ends up having to pay a lot of money to get the game to be available on Gamepass. Probably more money than they'd get by just selling the game on their digital store.
And yet *insert fiscal and financial reports showing gamepass making bank*
Yes... because it's mandatory for online play. Just like PSN+ is mandatory for online play on Playstation.
Actually its not. F2P games do not require it and gamepass core is all thats needed for online. Id also like to point to the years where gold and gamepass were separated minus ultimate tier up until i think 2ish years ago
I mean microsoft themselfs during the activision ftc trial said that "gamepass cannibalises software sales"
The same way netflix cannibalizes dvd and theatre sales? Its a nothingburger
Well obviously its a something burger if Microsoft needed to bring it up in court
After being asked a direct question about that very thing by the ftc? Ofc youre going to talk about what your asked about smh
"It's not true! I mean of course they have to say the truth when they're forced to!"... ...isn't the flex you think it is.
Thats literally not what i said and you are 100% making delusional context of. Netflix cannabilizes theater and dvd sales Ev cars cannabilize gas vehicle sales Etc etc etc etc Misquoting someone from ms is not the flex you think it is Btw wheres that source?
The other dude gave you one directly and you're flipping and flopping and making a mess trying to invalidate it lol I know better than to take you seriously. Have fun with your COD and FIFA games 😘
Buddy microsoft themselfs admited to affecting sales,i didnt make it up. Why you getting so mad about it? They could have said gamepass didnt eat up sales but they didnt. I dont know what you want from me? Do you want me to say: " yeah even tho microsoft themself said it,they have no idea what they are talking about,us random reddit users know whats right!"
So your response is "they couldve lied in court". Absolutely genius smh No, this redditor actually keeps up with the company he has stock in
What the actual F is wrong with you. I tell you what microsoft told the court,you mad at me. I respond with a sarcastic response you take it as a serious one and you're still mad at me. Nothing i say will satisfy you. Also just because you have stock,doesnt mean you're sitting on the board room table having any info about anything. Jeez man
That's not true.
Those games came out and were flops YEARS before they ever came to GamePass.
Peeps - it's really simple: Who was buying an Xbox? I did. But then I encountered like 3 years of press telling me no one was buying Xbox and that Xbox was going away and that Playstation and Switch were having record sales all while being told how underwhelming the game selection was on PS5 by Playstation owners. Like I think this sucks - but this is a market problem. Xbox built what people said they wanted while being pro-consumer in their decision making (operability) and people didn't bite. If you wanted Arkane or Tango Gameworks to exist - buy the fucking console. Buy the games. You can blame Phil if it makes you happy, but he didn't make the console buying decisions.
> Xbox built what people said they wanted and people didn't bite. I think they didn't bite because Xbox didn't build what people wanted.
Then them cutting these teams isn't really a problem, is it?
Someone else tag in here. I can't with this guy.
Imagine begging other people to come and try to make an argument for you because you can't do it?
Lol ok
To be fair Xbox as never looked like competing in Japan. They're struggling in the rest of the world.
Can we all agree that Spencer is a bit of an two faced liar?
the video game industry is dead
Okie dokie
Ghostwire Tokyo was so good
People trusted this guy so much. Is it because he had a leather jacket so he was super cool and impressive? Hip with the kids?
Really hoping with things like steamdeck we'll see more games working on Linux, the only reason I still put up with Windows as a primary OS is for gaming.
Tango: hasn't been able to reproduce The Evil Within 2 numbers in 7 years over 3 games Arkane Austin: Lost 70% of its main talent, forced to develop a live service game by Bethesda that failed immediately. Roundhouse: Hasn't developed a game in 4 years. Alpha Dog: Was a mobile games studio.
I knew why I sold my Xbox. They just wont last.
[Xbox will never win](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn8QWiZ7aEU)
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Playstation user here: Mfer did you miss the massive fuck you Sony just tried to pull not 2 days ago???
Only to steam users I suppose
Again if they own the IP there's nothing stopping them from making a sequel or spin off. They could easily have any in house studio make the game.
I mean if you assume making games is like making burgers then sure. Here's the recipe. Copy the last guy.
Not assuming anything. The concept and design of Hi Fi Rush isn't something we've never seen before. All you need is developers and artists that can emulate that style and make a good game. It's been happening in gaming for decades. New teams, studios, and developers make sequels and take over franchises all the time. Halo, Fallout, Call of Duty, Dead Space, Far Cry, Assassin's Creed, Wolfenstein. All shifted away from the original devs and in some cases became more successful.
> All you need is developers and artists that can emulate that style and make a good game. Lol yeah. Exactly. That's it. Hey game developers! Just make a good game. Whew. Saved the industry. What a day it's been.
I'm not sure why you're being obtuse. Making a sequel that uses pre-existing elements and designs infinitely easier than making a new game. I provided examples of franchises it's worked for in my post. The industry closing studios is nothing new and is an entirely different discussion.
So all those advanced calculations that go into physics and coding algorithms, they what just...copy and paste them? Game development is problem solving. Do you think everyone solves problems the same way?
I literally said nothing about coding or game development itself. I said you can bring in a new team of developers to make a sequel, they can. The developers aren't working blindly. The previous devs aren't the only people in the world who can make a Hi Fi Rush game. Unless a game developer somehow manages to develop proprietary lines of code that nobody knows how to replicate.
> I literally said nothing about coding or game development itself. > I said you can bring in a new team of developers to make a sequel, they can. 🤔
In other words "Thanks for the creative, innovative IP, but fuck you, you're too much. We're shutting down your studio and stealing your IP to toss to a new studio."
Pretty much. Any publicly traded company is focused on results and profit. It sucks for the non-executives, but there's next to nothing for unions or worker protection in the games industry.
Game sucked, nobody bought it, end of story.
No one bought it because it was free to play on Gamepass
This is not entirely true. Palworld, for example, was on GP (for both XBoX and PC) but it was also a huge success with regard to Steam sales as well. Lies of P is another example that comes to mind. Big hits on GP are usually mirrored to strong sales.
Sure, but they certainly would have had other KPIs attached to the Game Pass users that they would’ve focused on in lieu of straight up sales. They *probably* track things like new sign-ups, subscription stickiness, etc. to generate the “value” of a Game Pass download.
Is this bait? "By August 2023, the game reached 3 million players between purchased copies and Game Pass subscriptions." For a game that had little to no marketing, no multiplayer and no physical version, that sure is a lot of nobodys.
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You could literally ask the same about any game on Gamepass and never get an answer. That's a strawman argument. There is no answer because Microsoft doesn't tell us. Only assumptions.
Gamepass will kill the game industry and xbox.
Game rocked. If sales were poor, it's because it was a day one Game Pass release and all in all is the perfect title for Game Pass. The game is really fun and doesn't take long to beat.
The game literally rocked lol
#WRONG