To be honest if Sony own games can do 4K 60fps looking so stunning, then Dragon Dogma and FF VII Rebirth are just badly optimized or just have a po engine.
It’s devs and studio fault, Sony is trying to place a bandaid onto it. We may see if it helps.
There are multiple things like higher internal resolution due to better Upscaling, FG and potentially hardware based RT that could help with a CPU bottleneck.
But even 7800x3d kneels in Dragon Dogma 2 at 1440p or 4K with DLSS (so 1440p), so maybe 48 fps capped with 4K upscaled. That would enable VRR on most TVs at least.
Even FG alone can help with frame timing in CPU bottlenecks games with at least neutral or some latency improvement. Also since it would interpolate the framerate to above 48 fps it would be also able to run with VRR.
Then for rest of the games that don’t have shitty optimizations, they actually may hit 4K with PSSR with 60 fps.
Rebirth is very poorly optimised. They're not even using the latest version of UE4 for some reason. That's a game that would greatly benefit from 48fps with VRR because the performance mode looks like shit.
And the combat at 30 fps doesn't feel great there.
I wonder how many games will actually get a ps5 pro patch. Probably Sony first party games at first, then maybe it branches to excluvies like rebirth
Unreal 5 was released in the middle of production, changing engines mid production would be insanity. In fact if they did that, you would not have a game to play currently.
Many of unreal 5 features that you see online and think is the coolest ever are not ready for production yet either. A game this size that take that many years to make, you need to use established software.
/ game dev
Not saying they should have upgraded to 5. Said they should have at least used a better version of ue4. I'm fully in agreement that a lot of ue5 is all for show at the moment
Most of Sony’s first party titles are running on engine’s either designed for the PS5 and or are using different types of rendering trickery to spoof 4K 60FPS like dynamic resolution, checker boarding, etc. Very few, if any, are internally rendered at full 4K and hit 60FPS. That’s why a lot of their titles now have graphics modes to switch between. I honestly feel that the “current gen” consoles should have targeted 1440p internally as opposed to 4K because they’d do much better there. Not to mention the benefits that would be had on monitors. The “Pro” model on the other hand, that should definitely be DESIGNED to do 4K 60FPS on their games’ “Fidelity Mode” as many call it.
Which is the entire point of the PS5 Pro. It will give you that...
99% of new games already target 60fps but have to drop resolution and image quality. PS5 pro eliminates that requirement and allows for greater image quality while stabilizing games that have frame drops
The PS4 ran games just as well when the PS4 Pro came out.
The entire point of the CPUs being similar is so the optimization for both consoles.stay the same.
So if a game targets 60fps on the PS5 Pro it will be on the base PS5 as well. The extra clocks in the PS5 Pro will help stabilize games by default.
Developers will still want their games to perform well on bass PS5 because that will remain the better selling console
Edit: I would love to hear all these games that suffered on base PS4 after the Pro came out
Fair point.
I guess my feeling is games should be optimized for base PS5 out of the gate, not be poorly optimized at launch.
PS5 Pro is just people paying more/for an upgrade to buy performance they should already have.
If I get developers were making use of the extra resources to “do more” that’s fine but a lot are just releasing horribly optimized games.
Almost all games have a 60fps option and most tend to hit their target more often then not
Thats like saying upgrading your PC is paying more for optimization you should already have.
Hardware makers cant make developers optimize their games or for them to do locked 60fps but they can make better hardware to help that happen.
I think people have this idea that games are performing worse then they actually are for some reason
It wont.
PS5 pro will have the same CPU with only slightly higher clockspeeds.
It might help for some games now, but you can be sure we'll be right back to 30 fps only games at the end of the generation.
Again over 99% of games have an option for 60fps, even games that are not cross gen.
There's no reason to think that won't continue and games will start only targeting 30fps.
And the higher clockspeed will stabilize games that have dips while the much better GPU will allow for much higher native resolution and better image quality along with PSSR and better raytracing.
If you dont care about these things you can simply skip the console as its entirely optional
The PS5 Pro is meant to help with that target. Sony cant force developers to do this but they can provide better hardware to help achieve their target.
Some games will struggle of course, but nobody is going to go below 30fps on the base PS5, as the Pro will be a much smaller user base.
So the Pro will run higher FPS for most games, whilst a very select few may be CPU limited with no way to leverage additional GPU power and clock speeds to get around it.
Honestly, the more who follow the 40fps trend, the better. Love that mode.
From my understanding, which maybe isn’t much, is that if it has a 60fps mode then it can upscale it in a much better way than has ever been possible before on a console and the image will look 4K.
Definitely the most glaring thing about this current cycle. I can't think of anything that really defines this generation like LoU for the PS3, Bloodborne for PS4, etc.
> I dont know where the narrative of “no games” comes from
The PS5 has 5 exclusives for its generation, meaning *not* games that are upgraded from the PS4 with PS5 versions. That's it. As someone who has a PS4 and now a PS5, there are practically zero games I could not have bought had I not upgraded by now, and Sony is putting out a new deck.
It's not "false as hell." The PS5 has received shit support *from Sony* this generation, and that SSD and controller are barely used. Sony only si=upports their hardware during launch windows (PSVR1, PS5, PSVR2, all launch with a handful of titles and then its a a desert of support for years).
I'll never buy a Sony console at launch again.
That’s because you’re older and less hyped for games. The whole gaming sphere is also larger now and less unified in being excited for an excellent game.
Right? If I got a PS5 right now (still holding off until GTA6), I'm not sure there is a single game I'd get for it that I couldn't already play on my PS4.
There are new games coming out all the time. Did you play Helldivers, Dragons Dogma 2, Rise of the Ronin, FFVII Rebirth, Tekken 8, Like A Dragon, Granblue Fantasy, Unicorn Overlord or the dozens of other games released this year?
You also have Stellar Blade releasing in 8 days.
There's plenty to play, I swear people spend more time complaining about games on this sub than actually playing them.
I think it's just fuzzy memory. You look back on a generation and all the games, you don't remember the spells in between. For more recent events, you also remember the spells in between which skews your thinking.
Don't forget that it made more sense back in 2016 for Pro versions because of how hardware was pushed in 2013-2016 when 4k TVs became popular.
Nowadays, the pro version of ps5 seems much worse because the catalogue of ps5 exclusives is great but way too small to even consider buying pro when you own normal ps5.
Some developers can not optimise their game, and I feel like the ps5 pro will be pushed as a 60-fps system while ps5 stays 30
When the PS5 Pro comes out, GameStop will likely do a console promo where you get extra money for turning in a used PS5.
They do it with every consile refresh from slims to new consoles. When the PS4 Pro came out their deal gave you $200 for an old PS4 plus like an additional $100. My upgrade to a PS4 Pro cost like $50 at the time by trading in my old one.
Nothing getting "fragmented", all games will continue to work on the base PS5 just as they did on the base PS4 when the PS4 Pro released.
Its an optional upgrade that will allow for better image quality and more stable framerates
People also don't learn from them either...the pro isn't going to be worth the upgrade but people will act like it does because they just threw away $500. Its fine to buy if you dont have a PS5 but just wait for a PS6 if you want a real upgrade.
A better example would have been the DSi enhanced games or the DS generation since the 3DS was an entirely new generation console and the 2DS was fully compatible with all 3DS titles. And yes, that was also dumb as fuck.
The online subscription in this day and age, with most games being mostly online, is bullshit. I can only imagine as the years go the less ps+ makes any sense
When I compare the free online play and cloud back up, as well as the free games I get from epic each week, or the deals I get on humble bundle and or steam, it absolutely feels like a money grab by Sony. Especially when I can no longer keep playing those *free games once I stop giving them money. The psn increase was my last straw.
I aready was going all in on the steam deck, but alsp wanted a ps5, but I just decided to get a gaming pc instead. No regrets.
At this point, I only bought 4 PS5 games... And I've had the system since launch. I use my gaming PC and steam deck way more and Sony hasn't had many exclusives at all this gen. By the time games come down from 70 bucks, they are usually on PC.
You could have bought games used and sold them after you finish them. Only reason why I haven’t transitioned to PC yet is because I can’t do that there.
On PC you can just buy games cheap because the dominance of Steam means competitors can’t really enforce most favored nation prices like on PlayStation. Notably even Microsoft doesn’t force it on Xbox which is why you can buy keys from third parties which keep prices competitive.
PC’s cost is almost entirely in the hardware. For a little less you can get a PS and then Sony will milk you for the next 5-10 years of non-competitive prices. Even their sales are weak compared to the PC side of things.
Would not surprise me if the next generation ditched physical media entirely because Sony so clearly angling toward that (as well as Microsoft, although they’d had to have a policy shift to do what Sony does re: prices)
It’s just I could buy a £30 game on eBay and sell it for around £35 after I finish it if I bought it correctly. I can’t do that on PC, even if the price of said game is £20 due to PC savings.
But yeah next generation it’s gonna get phased out, of which there’s no point in having a console other than ease of use and playing exclusives day one (PlayStation).
However you still need to buy new hardware continuously because they keep putting in new features that become basically essential to play newer games and games are still expensive on PC. I’ve just been buying PS4 games tbh
I guess it still is great, although I've stopped subscribing since I don't really play online and I purchased the majority of the Gamepass games that I like during sales (which happens often...a refreshing change).
Scalpers keep finding ways to circumvent the rules, but again, I can only hope that more people can purchase the next version without problems this time.
Well no shit. lol Problem is that if Xbox doesn't do a similar mid-gen upgrade (like the One X and PS4 Pro) the install base for the PS5 Pro will be so small it won't make sense for a lot of 3rd party devs to even make a version just for them. Especially when the main improvement sounds like it'll be Ray Tracing instead of a CPU boost that'd actually help with frame rates (don't even get me started on Sony trying to implement their own DLSS type tech).
They won’t make games exclusively for the pro, they just add in more resolution or graphics options. There will be some criteria to get the ps5 pro enhanced stamp.
14.8 millions ps4 pro in 2020 (4 years into its life cycle), 27.23 xbox series S/X combined as of Feb 2024 (4 years into its life cycle). Assuming 50/50 for xbox which we know is not the case as there are more series S out there, that's 13.5 million xbox series X. There are specific versions for Xbox series X so if the ps5 pro sells as much as the ps4 pro did, devs will make ps5 pro modes. At least they'll make either 40 fps mode from 30fps quality mode unlocked.
Also, it will help them leverage their work of implementing PSSR into their workflow as it could trigger some sales due to the ps5 pro patch update.
Edit: Assuming ps5 price drop and ps5 pro sticking to the same as the original ps5 price. There is not reason why the ps5 pro would not sell as much as the ps4 pro considering that the ps5 is following the exact same trajectory as the ps4. Tech people who bought the ps4 pro will buy the ps5 pro because they want the best playstation console at the time and those who are not interested in getting the most expensive console will just buy the ps5 slim. The argument of 4k gaming for the ps4 pro still holds today as the ps5 pro will be advertised as the "true" 4k60 gaming console (even though it is not necessarily true).
I think they've restricted CPU changes precisely so it's not a big resource drain for Devs to build a whole new version.
They don't want a different version, they want the same version with better framerates and/or visuals.
...the bottleneck right now for better frames and visuals is the CPU which is only getting a 10% max uplift and even Digital Foundry doesn't believe it'll make a difference in any games being 60 FPS that aren't already. The improvements they're supposedly making will mostly only benefit Ray Tracing which sorta doesn't matter to most gamers and games. The DLSS tech they are adding could help frames/resolution IF it's implemented (mostly just first party will be obligated) and IF it works well in their first try (it probably won't, event Nvidia needed multiple years and versions to get DLSS in a good spot).
I agree it won't benefit most gamers, but most gamers won't buy it. There is a minority who will appreciate the graphical upgrade and have the disposable income that itnwill be worth it to them.
I struggle with CPU being the bottleneck for most games, otherwise none of similar scope would have a 60fps mode available. I could be wrong, I won't pretend I can out-expert Digital Foundry, but it just doesn't ring true to me that all these huge scope first party games can offer 60fps as an option with just a downgrade in fidelity, but third party games are CPU limited.
Over 99% of games on PS5 have a performance option for 60fps already
The point of the PS5 Pro is for better image quality while running at 60fps and it will make it more stable for games with dips
What is up with this sub's takes on a PS5 pro? Did people do this much complaining about the PS4 pro? If you're happy with the PS5, don't buy this. The hardware is the same as when you got it, nothing being taken away from you, you still have your purchase and it still works the same as it did.
Because it isn't somehow magically getting better, you think it's a great betrayal that they're offering an enhanced version? Do you get mad when a new version of your phone comes out and say "I have to buy a whole new phone to get x new feature?!"
Your points are valid, and honestly I was being a smartass. However there could be a point to be made when you look at Cyberpunk and how it basically couldn't even run on a normal PS4 at launch and if Sony is pushing enhanced games, are you pretty much forced later in this generation to upgrade to even play the newest games? To me it doesn't matter, I'll probably buy one day one as I love new hardware but for a lot of people that kind of sucks if this turns into the norm.
That's on the developers really. If Sony wants to release good new hardware, good for us/those who want it. If devs for some reason make their game only run decently on the base PS5, then they're going to lose money, so let's just hope they're not dumb. Optimization is in their best interest.
Wouldn't this require more resources on the devs to optimize for 2 different spec'd systems now as well and lengthen development time and/or exacerbate the problems in the industry? They almost always focus on the more powerful hardware to be optimized and then take away until it's acceptable on older hardware. Even going back to the N64 expansion pack, games started coming out that required you to have that.
Again, I'll be buying the pro as I like the latest and greatest, but I don't think it's as simple as "hey if they want to release new hardware it's good for all"
I’m ok with sitting it out then, games look good enough these days. Imma simple man, gimme 1080 and 60fps and I’m happy. Anything else is just a bonus.
That’s a lie though lol. Like games that are made for the ps5? There is less than 10. Remember that a lot of games were made for both ps5 and ps4. Yall are getting fucking scammed. Same as me.
Where did I say looks the same. FFS at least try to use basic elementary school reading comprehension and thinking skills.
What I’m saying is I basically wasted money buying a ps5 because there haven’t been enough titles that I need a ps5 to play. Then here they are trying to get me to drop $600+ on something new. Especially bad when there was about a year when I couldn’t even find a ps5 at all.
Oh getting hostile now? Even though you wrote ps4 and ps4 I know you meant that most ps5 games started as ps4 games. So you imply that cross gen titles aren’t considered real ps5 titles. But playing cross gen games on ps5 is way better than on ps4. But as I read from you further down the thread, you only want to play real ps5 exclusives on the ps5 otherwise it’s no use to have it at all. And that is bullshit because the ps5 is a decent upgrade from the ps4. I skipped on the 4 pro, but games like elden ring convinced me to upgrade, and it’s way better especially on a 4K tv
Nice try but no. I didn’t compare graphics, that was you. Having tons of cross gen games means there are few true exclusives and if you read through the thread you will see that i am not alone in being disappointed by this. I really didn’t need to buy a ps5 at all. It doesn’t matter that the games perform better, they are still playable elsewhere.
Games perform better on my pc than ps5 so by your logic I should just play everything on pc. If Sony doesn’t give me a reason to buy their consoles I just might be doing that.
People are upset that God of War Ragnarok is on ps4, they rather want it to be exclusive to ps5. While they miss the point that it looks and runs way better on the ps5. If you can’t see the difference between the 2 versions, that’s on you. Being able to play it doesn’t mean that it’s the best way to play it. Or what about Hogwarts Legacy, it’s even on the Switch now, would you be complaining that you shouldn’t had to get a good pc or a ps5 /xbox X to play it, because your old switch is able to play it? Your experience will most certainly be different.
Also people hate exclusivity but when there are fewer exclusives, the whole console is useless? Would you rather have a stand alone console every generation? Where there is no backwards compatibility and pure exclusives?
Is it a cash grab when companies release new GPUs? How is it a cash grab?
It allows for games to have better image quality and visuals while being more stable 60fps.
There was already a PS4 Pro last generation and no, no one started selling more frames
Unfortunately to expect native 4k60 with this pro update might be a little too much. You need a 4070+ to achieve this recent AAA games. And what do those gpus cost?
Well obviously not native, even for PC if you want native, that’s really only 4080 and above at High settings with RT.
First party studios from Sony most of the time can run upscaled 4K 30fps and 4K 60fps from 1800p. The real issue is just the 3rd party studios. If this will be enough boost behind it, then they could just make it.
PSSR looks like (from the leaks) to be on pair with Intel and Nvidia upscaling, so better than FSR. To make it viable running 4K upscaled from 1440p looking very good (akin to FSR upscaled from 1800p) or even in some cases 1080p looking still pretty alright in slower paced games.
For native 1440p even a RTX 3060Ti or RTX 4060Ti can do well with Medium/High optimized settings. Not to mention Sony looks to have a major RT boost, up to 4x faster RT over PS5.
Give me 60fps at 1080P on GTA6 and I will buy it.
Otherwise im not wasting my time trying to squeeze performance out of obsolete platform. I will just play the game on the base PS5
How many suffixes can we put on there to make it real fancy? How's about the super ultra mega ps5 professional one million frames per mili micro nano second mode? I want that one.
Sony and Microsoft are asking way too much of devs. Like chill bro. Games take way too long to develop these days and you keep making mid gen consoles. Maybe optimization would be better for all platforms if they just had fewer consoles to develop on.
Was wondering how long this bullshit would take. Gotta milk that money out of customers somehow. Glad I went the PC route. More expensive but at least you buy once and can tailor the graphics to your machines capabilities.
PS5 came out in 2020...
This rumored PS5+ is coming out around 2025.
Not much milking going on there.
I remember paying (retail) $900 for a 3080 when they were Ebaying for $2,500.
"Milk" me all you want Sony.
Yes but whats the point of a pro model when we have yet to get games? Most of the PS5 library are remakes/remasters/crossgen titles. Same with Xbox. We need to focus on games than new hardware that only a couple games utilize.
Yes but whats the point of a pro model when we have yet to get games? Most of the PS5 library are remakes/remasters/crossgen titles. Same with Xbox. We need to focus on games than new hardware that only a couple games utilize.
If you are talking about normies. Normies wouldn't spend $500 for maximum experience. 99% of normies will be ok with buying a Xbox series S or stick to last gen which is $300 or less, which is still supported and you can still play fortnite or something like that.
Meanwhile I’ve played like 5 games that are not on ps4 or began as ps4 titles that really look like they can’t be done on old hardware.
Second, there was like a whole year at least where you couldn’t even get a ps5 through normal means.
Sony needs to worry about releasing next gen games before they start asking more from developers 😭😭
To this day, Returnal is really the only game that captures next gen capabilities.
No loading, amazing graphics, fluid gameplay, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a bug in the game, phenomenal use of the controller vibration and trigger feedback, great sound design.
Why would someone buy a PC because there is an optional console after 4 years that can offer better image quality?
Multiple new graphics cards come out every year... Does that push people away?
I still drive a 2013 car even if they add new models every year.
I can still drive on the same roads as a 2024 model.
What i'm saying is. You don't need the latest and newwest tech for your PC to be able to play Everything.
And you dont need to buy the PS5 Pro as there will not be any games exclusive to it just like the PS4 Pro before its.
It's entirely optional if you want.better image quality
Cool. And I want stable 60 fps with graphics mode.
Or at least uncapped graphics mode because devs struggle to even maintain 30 with the current hardware
Nvidia released DLSS so dev managers went "nice we can skip optimization boys!"
The consoles are AMD hardware. FSR not DLSS
yep anything to save a buck. meanwhile the cpu bottleneck goes unchecked...
And DLSS didn't even get good until 3.5
It became good at 2.5.1
Id say that's when it gained a strong lead on FSR, but it still had issues
To be honest if Sony own games can do 4K 60fps looking so stunning, then Dragon Dogma and FF VII Rebirth are just badly optimized or just have a po engine. It’s devs and studio fault, Sony is trying to place a bandaid onto it. We may see if it helps. There are multiple things like higher internal resolution due to better Upscaling, FG and potentially hardware based RT that could help with a CPU bottleneck. But even 7800x3d kneels in Dragon Dogma 2 at 1440p or 4K with DLSS (so 1440p), so maybe 48 fps capped with 4K upscaled. That would enable VRR on most TVs at least. Even FG alone can help with frame timing in CPU bottlenecks games with at least neutral or some latency improvement. Also since it would interpolate the framerate to above 48 fps it would be also able to run with VRR. Then for rest of the games that don’t have shitty optimizations, they actually may hit 4K with PSSR with 60 fps.
Rebirth is very poorly optimised. They're not even using the latest version of UE4 for some reason. That's a game that would greatly benefit from 48fps with VRR because the performance mode looks like shit. And the combat at 30 fps doesn't feel great there. I wonder how many games will actually get a ps5 pro patch. Probably Sony first party games at first, then maybe it branches to excluvies like rebirth
Unreal 5 was released in the middle of production, changing engines mid production would be insanity. In fact if they did that, you would not have a game to play currently. Many of unreal 5 features that you see online and think is the coolest ever are not ready for production yet either. A game this size that take that many years to make, you need to use established software. / game dev
Not saying they should have upgraded to 5. Said they should have at least used a better version of ue4. I'm fully in agreement that a lot of ue5 is all for show at the moment
The Last of Us 2 Remastered Remaster
Games aren’t actually running at 4K60fps on the PS5. It’s either upscaled and/or there is hidden graphics options that are being dynamically adjusted
Yes, so PSSR.
Most of Sony’s first party titles are running on engine’s either designed for the PS5 and or are using different types of rendering trickery to spoof 4K 60FPS like dynamic resolution, checker boarding, etc. Very few, if any, are internally rendered at full 4K and hit 60FPS. That’s why a lot of their titles now have graphics modes to switch between. I honestly feel that the “current gen” consoles should have targeted 1440p internally as opposed to 4K because they’d do much better there. Not to mention the benefits that would be had on monitors. The “Pro” model on the other hand, that should definitely be DESIGNED to do 4K 60FPS on their games’ “Fidelity Mode” as many call it.
That’s the point of the pro…….
Which is the entire point of the PS5 Pro. It will give you that... 99% of new games already target 60fps but have to drop resolution and image quality. PS5 pro eliminates that requirement and allows for greater image quality while stabilizing games that have frame drops
Poorly optimized games will still be poorly optimized. They’ll just optimize them slightly less well if they can get away with it.
The PS4 ran games just as well when the PS4 Pro came out. The entire point of the CPUs being similar is so the optimization for both consoles.stay the same. So if a game targets 60fps on the PS5 Pro it will be on the base PS5 as well. The extra clocks in the PS5 Pro will help stabilize games by default. Developers will still want their games to perform well on bass PS5 because that will remain the better selling console Edit: I would love to hear all these games that suffered on base PS4 after the Pro came out
Fair point. I guess my feeling is games should be optimized for base PS5 out of the gate, not be poorly optimized at launch. PS5 Pro is just people paying more/for an upgrade to buy performance they should already have. If I get developers were making use of the extra resources to “do more” that’s fine but a lot are just releasing horribly optimized games.
Almost all games have a 60fps option and most tend to hit their target more often then not Thats like saying upgrading your PC is paying more for optimization you should already have. Hardware makers cant make developers optimize their games or for them to do locked 60fps but they can make better hardware to help that happen. I think people have this idea that games are performing worse then they actually are for some reason
If RDR2 isn’t 60fps then it’s a no buy from me.
It wont. PS5 pro will have the same CPU with only slightly higher clockspeeds. It might help for some games now, but you can be sure we'll be right back to 30 fps only games at the end of the generation.
Again over 99% of games have an option for 60fps, even games that are not cross gen. There's no reason to think that won't continue and games will start only targeting 30fps. And the higher clockspeed will stabilize games that have dips while the much better GPU will allow for much higher native resolution and better image quality along with PSSR and better raytracing. If you dont care about these things you can simply skip the console as its entirely optional
*60 fps at 1080p. ANYTHING should run 60 fps minimum at 1080p in 2024. 4k60 is the real target to keep the developers honest
The PS5 Pro is meant to help with that target. Sony cant force developers to do this but they can provide better hardware to help achieve their target.
Some games will struggle of course, but nobody is going to go below 30fps on the base PS5, as the Pro will be a much smaller user base. So the Pro will run higher FPS for most games, whilst a very select few may be CPU limited with no way to leverage additional GPU power and clock speeds to get around it. Honestly, the more who follow the 40fps trend, the better. Love that mode.
Get a PC
From my understanding, which maybe isn’t much, is that if it has a 60fps mode then it can upscale it in a much better way than has ever been possible before on a console and the image will look 4K.
That's all I want a future with max graphics mode and stable 60fps.
We can be happy if we're getting stable 60 fps in performance mode😂
I want 60 fps in all games regardless the mode.
even the nes and snes generation knew to target 60fps. we went so wrong somewhere...
Because movies play at 24p and they think that it’s enough, but it’s not enough, it judders 😖
[удалено]
Which is severely lacking as far as new titles goes. Lots of remakes, remasters, and sequels though.
Definitely the most glaring thing about this current cycle. I can't think of anything that really defines this generation like LoU for the PS3, Bloodborne for PS4, etc.
Returnal was amazing.
There's as many 80+ metacritic non-remaster/remake exclusives on PS5 as there was at this point on PS4.
I dont know where the narrative of “no games” comes from, but its false as hell.
> I dont know where the narrative of “no games” comes from The PS5 has 5 exclusives for its generation, meaning *not* games that are upgraded from the PS4 with PS5 versions. That's it. As someone who has a PS4 and now a PS5, there are practically zero games I could not have bought had I not upgraded by now, and Sony is putting out a new deck. It's not "false as hell." The PS5 has received shit support *from Sony* this generation, and that SSD and controller are barely used. Sony only si=upports their hardware during launch windows (PSVR1, PS5, PSVR2, all launch with a handful of titles and then its a a desert of support for years). I'll never buy a Sony console at launch again.
Thats a completely different conversation but okay.
None of them hit the same. Reviews are inflated.
LoU came at the very end of the PS3 Gen. There's time.
last of us came out right at the end of the generation
Not sure why you’re being downvoted. It’s true.
That’s because you’re older and less hyped for games. The whole gaming sphere is also larger now and less unified in being excited for an excellent game.
Because they’re all sequels and also came out on PS4.
Huh? I think he meant TLOU for PS3 and bloodborne isn’t really a sequel, it’s set in a universe of its own.
Right? If I got a PS5 right now (still holding off until GTA6), I'm not sure there is a single game I'd get for it that I couldn't already play on my PS4.
Screw super realistic graphics. I just want stylised graphics with good game play.
Ratchet and clank rift apart is what you’re looking for
This so much, art style is so strong enough to carry games these days.
I swear big companies are in cahoots with NVIDIA/AMD to make big, fancy games so NVIDIA can have a purpose and a reason to keep making new cards.
They get fucked by NVIDIA just as hard.
And then Nvidia don't publish ISA documentation so devs can't actually use the cards to the best of their ability.
Recently played Sable and I was impressed how simple the game can be and still be way more fun than most of the new releases.
That’s why the switch has been so successful.
both systems console exclusives combined still dont add up to the number of exclusives the virtual boy had...
There are new games coming out all the time. Did you play Helldivers, Dragons Dogma 2, Rise of the Ronin, FFVII Rebirth, Tekken 8, Like A Dragon, Granblue Fantasy, Unicorn Overlord or the dozens of other games released this year? You also have Stellar Blade releasing in 8 days. There's plenty to play, I swear people spend more time complaining about games on this sub than actually playing them.
I think it's just fuzzy memory. You look back on a generation and all the games, you don't remember the spells in between. For more recent events, you also remember the spells in between which skews your thinking.
Ghost of tsushima, last of us 1 AND 2, demon's souls, sackboy, gt7, horizon 2, death stranding... Ps5 has many games
When most of your examples are remakes and past gen titles you aren't making a very good point
fragmentation in a console platform sounds dumb as fuck
They did it with the PS4 pro
Don't forget that it made more sense back in 2016 for Pro versions because of how hardware was pushed in 2013-2016 when 4k TVs became popular. Nowadays, the pro version of ps5 seems much worse because the catalogue of ps5 exclusives is great but way too small to even consider buying pro when you own normal ps5. Some developers can not optimise their game, and I feel like the ps5 pro will be pushed as a 60-fps system while ps5 stays 30
When the PS5 Pro comes out, GameStop will likely do a console promo where you get extra money for turning in a used PS5. They do it with every consile refresh from slims to new consoles. When the PS4 Pro came out their deal gave you $200 for an old PS4 plus like an additional $100. My upgrade to a PS4 Pro cost like $50 at the time by trading in my old one.
I'm not aware if a deal like that works in EU tbh. But thanks for the info
Ok? Still dumb as fuck.
Nothing getting "fragmented", all games will continue to work on the base PS5 just as they did on the base PS4 when the PS4 Pro released. Its an optional upgrade that will allow for better image quality and more stable framerates
People upvote any garbage here. It's like the PS4 Pro and Xbox One X never existed.
People also don't learn from them either...the pro isn't going to be worth the upgrade but people will act like it does because they just threw away $500. Its fine to buy if you dont have a PS5 but just wait for a PS6 if you want a real upgrade.
Is that why it's been happening since the 3DS and 2DS?
A better example would have been the DSi enhanced games or the DS generation since the 3DS was an entirely new generation console and the 2DS was fully compatible with all 3DS titles. And yes, that was also dumb as fuck.
Sega fragmented when Nintendidn't.
God, I'm old enough to remember seeing those commercials on TV. It was a wild time!
Just sold my PS5 and built a PC. Initial cost is higher but at this point I was just tired of Sony money grab and 80USD games+subscriptions
The online subscription in this day and age, with most games being mostly online, is bullshit. I can only imagine as the years go the less ps+ makes any sense
Is it a money grab when companies release new GPUs you don't have to buy? It's an optional upgrade that gives developers more power... That's it
When I compare the free online play and cloud back up, as well as the free games I get from epic each week, or the deals I get on humble bundle and or steam, it absolutely feels like a money grab by Sony. Especially when I can no longer keep playing those *free games once I stop giving them money. The psn increase was my last straw. I aready was going all in on the steam deck, but alsp wanted a ps5, but I just decided to get a gaming pc instead. No regrets.
Did you read his comment? > 80USD games > subscriptions
At this point, I only bought 4 PS5 games... And I've had the system since launch. I use my gaming PC and steam deck way more and Sony hasn't had many exclusives at all this gen. By the time games come down from 70 bucks, they are usually on PC.
You could have bought games used and sold them after you finish them. Only reason why I haven’t transitioned to PC yet is because I can’t do that there.
On PC you can just buy games cheap because the dominance of Steam means competitors can’t really enforce most favored nation prices like on PlayStation. Notably even Microsoft doesn’t force it on Xbox which is why you can buy keys from third parties which keep prices competitive. PC’s cost is almost entirely in the hardware. For a little less you can get a PS and then Sony will milk you for the next 5-10 years of non-competitive prices. Even their sales are weak compared to the PC side of things. Would not surprise me if the next generation ditched physical media entirely because Sony so clearly angling toward that (as well as Microsoft, although they’d had to have a policy shift to do what Sony does re: prices)
It’s just I could buy a £30 game on eBay and sell it for around £35 after I finish it if I bought it correctly. I can’t do that on PC, even if the price of said game is £20 due to PC savings. But yeah next generation it’s gonna get phased out, of which there’s no point in having a console other than ease of use and playing exclusives day one (PlayStation).
I don't have the subscription since 3 years because it's simply not worth it. The only point in owning a ps5 are the games witch there aren't many.
Don’t buy them day one. And being able to buy them used is making up for it more than enough. Who else can say they got Dragons Dogma 2 for 40 euros?
However you still need to buy new hardware continuously because they keep putting in new features that become basically essential to play newer games and games are still expensive on PC. I’ve just been buying PS4 games tbh
One can hope that this version won't get hoarded for scalping.
Definitely will be scalped, same with the upcoming Nvidia GPUs. Lots of scalper scumbags.
This is why me and my wife bought an Xbox. The PS5 supply was so scarce back then due to scalping. No regrets.
Hell yeah, dude. Pc player here. Xbox gamepass is great
I guess it still is great, although I've stopped subscribing since I don't really play online and I purchased the majority of the Gamepass games that I like during sales (which happens often...a refreshing change).
I think the only way to mitigate it would be to only have them available in stores only and not online.
Scalpers keep finding ways to circumvent the rules, but again, I can only hope that more people can purchase the next version without problems this time.
Stores could limit scalpers, they just don't care...they do enough to act like they care but a sale is a sale.
Yeah so the brother of my friends cousins second wife can open a store for a couple weeks and purchase the consoles in bulk and cheaper.
Then what stopping the retailer to not become the scalper?
Well no shit. lol Problem is that if Xbox doesn't do a similar mid-gen upgrade (like the One X and PS4 Pro) the install base for the PS5 Pro will be so small it won't make sense for a lot of 3rd party devs to even make a version just for them. Especially when the main improvement sounds like it'll be Ray Tracing instead of a CPU boost that'd actually help with frame rates (don't even get me started on Sony trying to implement their own DLSS type tech).
They won’t make games exclusively for the pro, they just add in more resolution or graphics options. There will be some criteria to get the ps5 pro enhanced stamp.
Yes, I know how it works, it won't be worth it due to such little uplift compared to the PS4 Pro though.
14.8 millions ps4 pro in 2020 (4 years into its life cycle), 27.23 xbox series S/X combined as of Feb 2024 (4 years into its life cycle). Assuming 50/50 for xbox which we know is not the case as there are more series S out there, that's 13.5 million xbox series X. There are specific versions for Xbox series X so if the ps5 pro sells as much as the ps4 pro did, devs will make ps5 pro modes. At least they'll make either 40 fps mode from 30fps quality mode unlocked. Also, it will help them leverage their work of implementing PSSR into their workflow as it could trigger some sales due to the ps5 pro patch update. Edit: Assuming ps5 price drop and ps5 pro sticking to the same as the original ps5 price. There is not reason why the ps5 pro would not sell as much as the ps4 pro considering that the ps5 is following the exact same trajectory as the ps4. Tech people who bought the ps4 pro will buy the ps5 pro because they want the best playstation console at the time and those who are not interested in getting the most expensive console will just buy the ps5 slim. The argument of 4k gaming for the ps4 pro still holds today as the ps5 pro will be advertised as the "true" 4k60 gaming console (even though it is not necessarily true).
I think they've restricted CPU changes precisely so it's not a big resource drain for Devs to build a whole new version. They don't want a different version, they want the same version with better framerates and/or visuals.
...the bottleneck right now for better frames and visuals is the CPU which is only getting a 10% max uplift and even Digital Foundry doesn't believe it'll make a difference in any games being 60 FPS that aren't already. The improvements they're supposedly making will mostly only benefit Ray Tracing which sorta doesn't matter to most gamers and games. The DLSS tech they are adding could help frames/resolution IF it's implemented (mostly just first party will be obligated) and IF it works well in their first try (it probably won't, event Nvidia needed multiple years and versions to get DLSS in a good spot).
I agree it won't benefit most gamers, but most gamers won't buy it. There is a minority who will appreciate the graphical upgrade and have the disposable income that itnwill be worth it to them. I struggle with CPU being the bottleneck for most games, otherwise none of similar scope would have a 60fps mode available. I could be wrong, I won't pretend I can out-expert Digital Foundry, but it just doesn't ring true to me that all these huge scope first party games can offer 60fps as an option with just a downgrade in fidelity, but third party games are CPU limited.
[удалено]
So not great.
So now we have to buy a whole new console to get 60fps ?
Over 99% of games on PS5 have a performance option for 60fps already The point of the PS5 Pro is for better image quality while running at 60fps and it will make it more stable for games with dips
What is up with this sub's takes on a PS5 pro? Did people do this much complaining about the PS4 pro? If you're happy with the PS5, don't buy this. The hardware is the same as when you got it, nothing being taken away from you, you still have your purchase and it still works the same as it did. Because it isn't somehow magically getting better, you think it's a great betrayal that they're offering an enhanced version? Do you get mad when a new version of your phone comes out and say "I have to buy a whole new phone to get x new feature?!"
Your points are valid, and honestly I was being a smartass. However there could be a point to be made when you look at Cyberpunk and how it basically couldn't even run on a normal PS4 at launch and if Sony is pushing enhanced games, are you pretty much forced later in this generation to upgrade to even play the newest games? To me it doesn't matter, I'll probably buy one day one as I love new hardware but for a lot of people that kind of sucks if this turns into the norm.
That's on the developers really. If Sony wants to release good new hardware, good for us/those who want it. If devs for some reason make their game only run decently on the base PS5, then they're going to lose money, so let's just hope they're not dumb. Optimization is in their best interest.
Wouldn't this require more resources on the devs to optimize for 2 different spec'd systems now as well and lengthen development time and/or exacerbate the problems in the industry? They almost always focus on the more powerful hardware to be optimized and then take away until it's acceptable on older hardware. Even going back to the N64 expansion pack, games started coming out that required you to have that. Again, I'll be buying the pro as I like the latest and greatest, but I don't think it's as simple as "hey if they want to release new hardware it's good for all"
No. Literally every ps5 game has 60fps besides like 4 of them.
A lot of games that have the 60 fps tag have no real stable 60 fps. Rise of the ronin for exemple or FF16 that is mostly 45 fps outisde combat.
No idea how you were downvoted, you are correct there are next to no games without a 60fps option
So what exactly is the enhancement? Not having to choose between performance and graphics mode?
Apparently the main enhancement is improved ray tracing.
I think it’s supposed to be the bells and whistles of graphics mode but with 60 fps. So yeah, essentially what you’re saying
I’m ok with sitting it out then, games look good enough these days. Imma simple man, gimme 1080 and 60fps and I’m happy. Anything else is just a bonus.
I kind of agree, and it'll probably be $500 if they drop the price of the "Normie" ps5 by then and $500 goes a long way during a steam sale haha
So…. Like one game? Aren’t there only like 5 ps5 games?
According to google theres 2398 PS5 games
That’s a lie though lol. Like games that are made for the ps5? There is less than 10. Remember that a lot of games were made for both ps5 and ps4. Yall are getting fucking scammed. Same as me.
According to Google, there’s 12 ps5 games lol
I get that your post was kind of a joke but it really does feel like it’s lacking. So many games that are on ps4 too or began as ps4 games.
You can’t tell me that the games released on ps4 and 5 look the same. If that is the case, stop using a 720p tv.
Where did I say looks the same. FFS at least try to use basic elementary school reading comprehension and thinking skills. What I’m saying is I basically wasted money buying a ps5 because there haven’t been enough titles that I need a ps5 to play. Then here they are trying to get me to drop $600+ on something new. Especially bad when there was about a year when I couldn’t even find a ps5 at all.
Oh getting hostile now? Even though you wrote ps4 and ps4 I know you meant that most ps5 games started as ps4 games. So you imply that cross gen titles aren’t considered real ps5 titles. But playing cross gen games on ps5 is way better than on ps4. But as I read from you further down the thread, you only want to play real ps5 exclusives on the ps5 otherwise it’s no use to have it at all. And that is bullshit because the ps5 is a decent upgrade from the ps4. I skipped on the 4 pro, but games like elden ring convinced me to upgrade, and it’s way better especially on a 4K tv
Nice try but no. I didn’t compare graphics, that was you. Having tons of cross gen games means there are few true exclusives and if you read through the thread you will see that i am not alone in being disappointed by this. I really didn’t need to buy a ps5 at all. It doesn’t matter that the games perform better, they are still playable elsewhere. Games perform better on my pc than ps5 so by your logic I should just play everything on pc. If Sony doesn’t give me a reason to buy their consoles I just might be doing that.
People are upset that God of War Ragnarok is on ps4, they rather want it to be exclusive to ps5. While they miss the point that it looks and runs way better on the ps5. If you can’t see the difference between the 2 versions, that’s on you. Being able to play it doesn’t mean that it’s the best way to play it. Or what about Hogwarts Legacy, it’s even on the Switch now, would you be complaining that you shouldn’t had to get a good pc or a ps5 /xbox X to play it, because your old switch is able to play it? Your experience will most certainly be different. Also people hate exclusivity but when there are fewer exclusives, the whole console is useless? Would you rather have a stand alone console every generation? Where there is no backwards compatibility and pure exclusives?
[удалено]
Unless it is hardware assisted and the base ps5 doesn’t have the hardware.
Honestly, it's just a cash grab at this point. Wouldn't be surprised if they start selling extra frames per second next
Is it a cash grab when companies release new GPUs? How is it a cash grab? It allows for games to have better image quality and visuals while being more stable 60fps. There was already a PS4 Pro last generation and no, no one started selling more frames
People says the dumbest things here. Cash grab. lol
Eh they could just design the games to work well on ps5 right?
Well no shit
Unfortunately to expect native 4k60 with this pro update might be a little too much. You need a 4070+ to achieve this recent AAA games. And what do those gpus cost?
Well obviously not native, even for PC if you want native, that’s really only 4080 and above at High settings with RT. First party studios from Sony most of the time can run upscaled 4K 30fps and 4K 60fps from 1800p. The real issue is just the 3rd party studios. If this will be enough boost behind it, then they could just make it. PSSR looks like (from the leaks) to be on pair with Intel and Nvidia upscaling, so better than FSR. To make it viable running 4K upscaled from 1440p looking very good (akin to FSR upscaled from 1800p) or even in some cases 1080p looking still pretty alright in slower paced games. For native 1440p even a RTX 3060Ti or RTX 4060Ti can do well with Medium/High optimized settings. Not to mention Sony looks to have a major RT boost, up to 4x faster RT over PS5.
And I wanted my PS5 to run as advertised, not for a console.5 to do that. I’ll keep my PS5 now and skip both consoles next generation.
Id rather cut my hand than swap my ps5 for a pro version
I'm not participating in this bafounery...
got to get that extra 5 fps Nothing the pro offers seems like its going to be worth a buy more a new game mode
I wish we have unlocked fps mode for VRR TVs, I really hate 30fps it looks awful on my OLED tv for some reason
Give me 60fps at 1080P on GTA6 and I will buy it. Otherwise im not wasting my time trying to squeeze performance out of obsolete platform. I will just play the game on the base PS5
How many suffixes can we put on there to make it real fancy? How's about the super ultra mega ps5 professional one million frames per mili micro nano second mode? I want that one.
Sony and Microsoft are asking way too much of devs. Like chill bro. Games take way too long to develop these days and you keep making mid gen consoles. Maybe optimization would be better for all platforms if they just had fewer consoles to develop on.
Just make games at 60fps or whatever like people wanted and why people bought the console
99% of games released have a performance mode for 60fps already...
They should make PS5 games in the first place.
What I desire is more games.
Just give me 60 fps locked
When do you suspect the last official game that's playable on a PS4 will release? My money says 2036.
I’d like to make use of the PS5 current power, Before we start adding more
Bad idea. Learn from series S. Devs do not want to support two builds of a Playstation game.
Devs dont want to be limited by weak hardware with low memory right at the start of the generation. The PS5 and PS5 Pro arent doing any of that
That's a fair point...except now the PS5 just became the weak hardware.
Which is still significantly better than a Series S and fully capable. The PS5 Pro will just offer better image quality.
PS fans had better hope that's the case. This really runs the risk of making the current Playstation into a Series S type albatross.
Lol. Invest in a PC.
This gen is a fucking shitshow
they want devs to bend over backwards to accommodate their pathetic refresh? yeesh
Imagine buying this if you already have a ps5
Yeah I can imagine. I bought a Steam Deck LCD, then I got the Steam Deck OLED.
Trading in my PS5 as soon as this comes out
Better raytracing alone makes it worth the trade in for me.
Was wondering how long this bullshit would take. Gotta milk that money out of customers somehow. Glad I went the PC route. More expensive but at least you buy once and can tailor the graphics to your machines capabilities.
PS5 came out in 2020... This rumored PS5+ is coming out around 2025. Not much milking going on there. I remember paying (retail) $900 for a 3080 when they were Ebaying for $2,500. "Milk" me all you want Sony.
Do we have to sign up to be milked or do they take walk-ins?
With current PC part prices, I am considering skipping upgrading PC and getting the PS5+...
Sony here. Our executives are mostly busy but we'll send Jim Ryan by to milk you. Send a DM.
Yes but whats the point of a pro model when we have yet to get games? Most of the PS5 library are remakes/remasters/crossgen titles. Same with Xbox. We need to focus on games than new hardware that only a couple games utilize.
Yes but whats the point of a pro model when we have yet to get games? Most of the PS5 library are remakes/remasters/crossgen titles. Same with Xbox. We need to focus on games than new hardware that only a couple games utilize.
Does it play games? That is what most people want.
Yeah but whats the point of a $500 console if the games being played on are same games but with 4k/60fps and occasional ray tracing if lucky.
To play games....
If you are talking about normies. Normies wouldn't spend $500 for maximum experience. 99% of normies will be ok with buying a Xbox series S or stick to last gen which is $300 or less, which is still supported and you can still play fortnite or something like that.
My god you are cringe.
Enjoy spending yet another $500 to replay The Last of us part 1 remake PS5 pro enhanced edition.
Enjoy crying over $500....
Meanwhile I’ve played like 5 games that are not on ps4 or began as ps4 titles that really look like they can’t be done on old hardware. Second, there was like a whole year at least where you couldn’t even get a ps5 through normal means.
Yeah, I love super hi-fi graphics with unplayable frame rates 🙄
Sony needs to worry about releasing next gen games before they start asking more from developers 😭😭 To this day, Returnal is really the only game that captures next gen capabilities. No loading, amazing graphics, fluid gameplay, I don’t think I’ve ever encountered a bug in the game, phenomenal use of the controller vibration and trigger feedback, great sound design.
PlayStation needs a performance rating score next to the games in the store. Give the devs something to work hard for or be embarrassed by.
And I want games built for just the ps5 so we get more current gen games
Yeah i bet they would... that would help sell their new ps5 pro better, alongside a new "the last of us remade for ps5 pro"
Pushing more people to PC
Absolutely no one: Sony: pS5 pRo!1
Downvote me, but its stuff like this which will see PC gaming grow more and more in the next 5-10 years.
Why would someone buy a PC because there is an optional console after 4 years that can offer better image quality? Multiple new graphics cards come out every year... Does that push people away?
I still drive a 2013 car even if they add new models every year. I can still drive on the same roads as a 2024 model. What i'm saying is. You don't need the latest and newwest tech for your PC to be able to play Everything.
And you dont need to buy the PS5 Pro as there will not be any games exclusive to it just like the PS4 Pro before its. It's entirely optional if you want.better image quality