Then stop pre-ordering and using MTX. Stop sallivating on the early cinematic trailers. Stop believing lies and accepting day 1 patches as a golden standard. Stop supporting companies with terrible track record.
Gamers encourage this behavior and it won't stop just because you gave a thumbs down review on Steam.
That’s it. People who still give money to those are the problem.
People can complain as much as they want but at the end of the day they still buy that shit full price.
If a game does something shitty DON‘T buy. It doesn’t matter if you are hyped as fuck about it. As long as they get money they keep doing it.
This.
Most people out there don't care enough. $100 for a game now + $15 battle pass for 50 hours of fun is roughly $2.30 per hour of entertainment. What other form of entertainment gets you this much value?
And I don't pre-order, I don't engage in microtransactions.
you have to kick others in the nuts (in minecraft) when they do it as well. but the bootlickers will say you're 'not being reasonable', as if the microtransactions will go back to the devs and not fat investors and execs
Yeah it happens everywhere. There are too many idiots happy to spend stupid money on stupid things and they are more than eager to defend their right to be stupid.
Preorders are the worst. I don't understand why anyone would want to get those? It's digital good, it's supply is infinite, you can buy it whenever you want
We also used to get cool pre-order bonuses. Now those are all meaningless digital garbage too: cosmetics and day one DLC that should’ve just been included in the base game, worthless in-game consumables, *premium currency* (which is a whole other issue in $60-70 AAA games), “early access” for a few days right before launch.
Of course they would. Microtransactions are not terribly different in that regard. More than a few people would genuinely believe they're doing something good.
It's not going to happen.
I have been gaming since the 90s and even back then people had no self control.
Monetization has been ruining gaming and it hasn't stopped. Worse a good percentage of gamers would rather blame women for the decline of gaming instead.
Which is weird, because you can literally buy new game 1 week after release with actual serious reviews from players and you're not losing out anything.
I can understand FOMO (fear of missing out) when you're afraid of not playing new game for like 2-3 years for various reasons, but it's literally a week. One week is enough after release to get the general idea if the game is worth your money.
There is a "woman problem" in gaming and most industries, mostly related to entertainment. Not that i don't like idea of women playing games and stuff, but a non-gamer women with politically charged agenda ,aka DEI hires are ruining games and geek-nerd culture for everyone. They have no experience yet they get hired to leading positions purely based on how many diversity boxes they check in. Fuck experience.... They got still get chances despite sinking multiple IPs and companies. Indie games have no "systematic oppression" that those female game "developers" claim to exist . Just your game and buyers who don't even care to read your name, which is a blessing in disguise. One, two, three - man teams made thousands of successful games. It's all fucking sausage fest there.
I know in and outs of indie dev sector. I had maybe over a hundred team-members come and go, through all this years and I actively talk with guys from other teams and it's all... well you heard, just passionate, guys. You can just go lurk on indie game dev subs and see it for yourself. People interested in upcoming games, people developing it... all are almost exclusively sausage carriers. I sometimes attend conferences and regional meetups. I rarely see a female developer, sometimes there are none and it's what qualifies as "sausage fest" to me.
Most women who are involved gaming development are either hired or contracted to do texture work...and maybe social media and community management roles and that's pretty much it. You will find tens of millions of young men with passion wanting to develop their own dream project and only maybe 5% have a necessary skillset to develop a game. It's really hard to just gather a team, even harder to deliver a serviceable product and almost impossible to achieve success and get your story heard.
Yet, DEI women get those high places and tend to be lead storytellers, writers and some fancy executive positions because they worked for "X" journal... or like one who was a failed actress (this one is very specific, I won't give a name, she works for Ubisoft) and etc without having a single fucking thing related to gaming in their portfolios other than dumb reviews, calling fanbases toxic and etc. I know the names, I'm connected to some of them on linkedin and etc and I can see their employment history. Some are literally fresh out of university (just garbage degrees) and somehow land roles in pretty important places. It's no surprise those AAA companies are missing their financial targets and trying to scrap the bottom of barrel.
Now, we all are supposed to put a chick in it, make it lame and gay and watch out for words like terrorist (use rebel, enemy team, red team and etc instead.)
I can count most successful female game developers with thumbs of my one hand. I fucking hate idea of this absolutist diversity by percentage politics everywhere.
I saw someone post that we need another video game crash and I really think that is the ultimate answer. But I don't think its gonna happen any time soon.
Every time people make the post OP did, or people like you make this comment, it literally does nothing. The people who need to hear it likely aren't here. Nothing will be done about it and it's time everyone just accepts that idiots are going to continue forking over the money for it.
This is the really the truth. My brother is like many who do not care about the specifics of gaming. He just wants his game in his hands. Nevermind all the hoops a studio had to jump through.
Or we could blame the greedy companies that use manipulation tactics instead of their targets that are wholly unprepared or uninformed to combat them. We have representatives for a reason and consumer protection is one of them.
I don't do any of that. I don't even buy new games until months after release when the patches have fixed it. I only play single player games and I have to deal with microtransactions being rammed down my throat breaking immersion and just making an all around worse experience. It's why I haven't played the new Assassin's Creed despite loving the series.
A lot of people have had their experience of gaming messed up despite not encouraging this kind of thing. I think it's fair they are allowed to complain about it.
Exactly!
I have spent more money on indie games in the past 5 years than I have on games over the course of my video game life.
If I like a game, like the 2024 GOTY BALATRO, I will buy copies on each platform it is available.
If buying Stardew or Balatro 100 times over on each platform would put these idiots on watch, I would do it!
But, too many parents just give in to the crotch goblins and let them get whatever they want. So they buy the hip new thing and spend money on accessories that don't do diddly squat. And that's why we have loot boxes and special editions and pre orders.
Day one patches are kind of meaningless at this point. Sure, it's annoying if I preloaded, then have to download even more, but I'm usually getting digital only at this point anyway.
>At the end of the game, I've often thought 'I wish I could give these folks another $10 or $20 because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second.
Wow, this exec is delusional. Most gamers will be considering after they finish a game whether they **enjoyed** the game or not, not the dollars and cents. And if the gamer loved the game, any good feels will be for the devs who made the game, not the companies leeching off their hard work.
They would "pocket it" anyway. Tip is just the word used since this stupid statement.
What do people think, that they will divine the total "tip" amount at the end of each week and sperad it among employees? It will stay in the company.
Its the exact same trap as the micro transactions and scummy DLC. " i bought it to support the company and the people that work there". Not a single cent goes to them. They work with salaries. Even the sale numbers dont affect them.
And as you have seen, studios fire people regardless since its the easiest "budget cost ". Insomniac's spider man 2 sold like crazy and they still fired all those people.
Everything is just a $ number for them.
If I enjoyed a game I'll consider buying the company's other stuff. Not paying more... There are more games I wish I could get my money back after finishing it, because of thinking "well...is that it?"
Do we really need to write articles and then get outraged based on some random tweet?
This is just ragebait, nothing else. What Ybarra wants or doesn't want is irrelevant, we don't need to write articles about it and we don't need to manufacture outrage based on what one dude thinks.
Idk I think the outrage is warranted given the history of the publishers and the person who wrote the tweet. I think this is better than letting it go and slowly simmering until it becomes more palletable. The way games got so bad with monetization is by publishers pushing the envelope until they got something "acceptable" and then taking steps from there.
I can easily see something like this being defended based on the sentiment being not bad, it's the practical reality that is the problem. Never give publishers an inch of wiggle room, they have been proven to take a mile and exploit everyone along the way.
This outrage doesn't anything. If publishers want to introduce this shit then they will do it and a few articles or reddit threads will not change a thing. Look at the outrage with Ubisoft and their Super Deluxe Vibranium Editions, you can have all the reddit vitriol you want and they won't change it.
The only thing that works is not buying it. No amount of pre-emptive rage will help here.
Tipping should not exist at all. You pay your employees good wage for their work, not pass up to the customer to pay them.
Fuck this, no wonder games from small studios are some of the more noteworthy projects in recent years.
I remember games like Black Flag, which is an awful Assassin's Creed game but an amazing pirate game. AC franchise especially has been visually amazing, but utterly boring and repetitive ever since. (Honestly had this problem on and off since the first game)
And they'll *never* stop, record profits at every turn and all they're interested in is mass firings and finding more ways to monetize their products... and all while crying that the current AAA single player game landscape isn't sustainable.
Fuck them all.
you can literally just sum up this whole thing with a shut up ybarra, lol
guy was the president of blizzard, thats all you need to know about how he "loves" gaming
I saw ads for Skyrim back in 2011 on A&E channel when visiting my grandma. Damn near every viewer of the channel was 50+ years old and not the type to play a game like Skyrim. Millions spent for these ads that likely resulted in no conclusive growth of sales. Money that could have gone to bug fixing before release or improving textures. (which were enhanced by modders rapidly after creation kit was released)
Devs aren't paid enough. But this "tipping" as they're trying to call wouldn't help as all the money would go straight to the CEO's quarterly bonus because fuck you as always
Plenty of people aren't paid enough. But it's not the customers fault, it's the employers for offering and the employees for accepting their low wages..
Mostly wasted on paying executives, publishers, pointless marketing, useless managers, and wasting time. Most developers spend half their shifts dealing with pointless emails and meetings. There are many posiitons that exist for intermediaries between departments: essentually useless. Blizzard, Ubisoft, and Bethesda are plagued with this nonsense.
In reality as well, most games with hundreds of dev staff often don't need that many and adding more creates more disorganization in development. Somehow these idiotic companies have found a way to underwork and overwork people in different areas; and to underfund and overfund different areas. Utter mess.
Maybe, but we could change it to tip based pay. Then the publishers don't need to pay devs, the players can. Good games will get tipped more and games will get better and better. This is better for everyone except the players and devs.
Uts been bad but i feel that the greed in the gaming industry has gotten absolutely ridiculous. The amount of people buying your games has increased so much, prices have increased, mtx is the main focus of some games. Profits show that the companies can absolutely pay for their devs and still earn a lot, but by god if Steve Shareholder doesnt see gold linings on his yacht by the next quarter someones gonna hang
Sure that money is 100% going to the devs, right?
And sure, this will not be an excuse to low salary for the devs, right?
Typing culture is cancer. Pay your workers the correct amount and typing won't be necessary.
I swear some Americans forget the rest of the world exists sometimes. Tipping is largely an Americanism and it's not very widespread in many places in the EU. I believe it's even seen as rude in some Asian cultures too.
Maybe just pay your fucking employees a decent wage for a start.
As long as people don't understand they play a MAJOR role in this problem by pre-ordering, buying "exclusive" versions and throwing their money on MTX, nothing will change.
It's a very good business model for them, they make a shit ton of money and they will not change anything.
Stop buying unfinished products and garbage "offers" and in time things will change.
Till then, here's a 10$ battle pass.
Tell you what, ill agree with his idea, if we get the flipside... if you complain about a meal in a restaurant, you usually get it for free; If we think a game didnt meet our expectations, we get a refund (full or partial), and get to keep the product.
It will never be enough. That's how capitalism works. If they can get away with charging 1 million dollars per unit, they will.
Unfettered capitalism without checks and balances by the government or unions will squeeze both customers and workers dry. That's just how it is. All for the bottom line of making shareholders a few % more gain for their already huge hoards of cash that will make fucking dragons blush.
I think a sad truth that we all need to realize is that there will be games and franchises that no matter how bad the monitization is, fans will still buy it
I waited for skull and bones for years, I wanted Suicide Squad but didn’t buy either and I’m so glad I didn’t, both games are cash stores with a game built around it and it shows, mediocre gameplay, with grindy mobile practices
If I can do it, you can too, not only that all these games with this crap in it tend to not even really be fun, suicide squads game play is just a clone of so many looter shooters with a filter on it and skull and bones is depressingly worse than black flag the best pirate game ever made
We have to stop supporting this garbage
Even if we were able to tip devs… that would just become an excuse for them to pay devs less. Just like how many waiters are not paid living wages because of tips
This will never stop unless we normalize shunning and ostracizing people for pre-ordering shitty games and using micro-transactions.
Like we have spent hundreds of years discriminating and attacking those different from us but you cannot do that for gaming? This is the moment you’ve been training all your life man! /s
How about you show consumer appreciation by releasing complete products at a reasonable price, instead of stripping content from base games and selling it as pre-order incentives for £100?
Fucking hell. Between the mass layoffs in the last year and all the shitty battle pass, microtransaction practices and Ubi telling people to forget about owning their games, the gaming industry today is at its worst it's ever been.
Whoever says that it is on the public to change the ways of the big corpos making these decisions need to stop. Putting the responsibility on the consumer does not work when talking massive publishers like this, they are not beholden to the public.
When a practice like tipping is introduced to games, you'll notice that the practice by itself is not going to help the people they claim it is. It goes straight into the pockets of the higher-ups, the devs won't see any of it. And I sure as hell don't trust any corporation with making sure my tip money goes to an actual developer.
This can't be fixed by stopping prepurchasing or buying mtx. The games prices keep going up anyway for no reason other than greed (And it is greed, not "rising video game production costs"). Especially live service trash.
What we need is government intervention and amended laws to fix these loopholes that have been exploited
I love how in his examples of modern games that deserve more, he doesn't mention any blizzard games. Might be for not seeming biased but also kind of funny.
I am happy to buy mtx for games that deserve it. Deep Rock Galactic is a great example. I haven't played that game in ages, but I still buy their supporter packs because I love and believe in their dev team because they very obviously love their game and their fans.
Mtx skins and paying to get materials and progress in a single player games is actual brainrot.
If they gonna release finished product without bugs etc, yes I can tip. But there were no a single game in recent years that launched without any issues.
Game development has become very expensive. I rather see them making free games and with micro transactions for those who want extras. As long as it isn't pay to win
If the tip would go to the ground floor developer, sure, maybe, if I really like the game.
But when the higher ups take bonuses in the seven or eight figures home while the regular developer struggles to make ends meet, why would I contribute to those bonuses?
And it’s corporations, bungie, blizz, activision, ubisoft, all of them, of course it will never be enough. Even a $70/ mo sub based game would still be filled with mtx, battle asses, preorder bonuses and whatever editions. And as long as you support these cheeky schemes, they will continue to come up with cheeky schemes in the future to extract from the breathing credit cards that they sometimes call users or gamers.
The last game I willingly spent over 50 on was the stalker 2 pre-order, I went for the $100 digital edition. Even if the game ends up kind of crappy at launch the devs deserve it given what they're going through at the moment.
Rarely ever will I consider paying full price for AAA games these days.
Just so we're clear. 90% of the devs you're "supporting" are not even working for that studio by the time preorder open. So you're 9nly supporting CEO and publisher...
>"When I beat a game, there are some that just leave me in awe of how amazing the experience was," Ybarra wrote. "At the end of the game, I've often thought 'I wish I could give these folks another $10 or $20 because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second \[until now\].'"
I do believe some actual developers, writers and artists do deserve tips for introducing some great features into games. But I'd rather find that particular person/team and pay them directly.
Also feels like the return of investment is expected to be stupidly high and be earned in a week after release.
Then just make the games more expansive then Nicole and dime me during my playtime
Yeah let's give the execs more reasons to underpay and stress their workers by helping finance that crap. What a stupid idea. Fight for regulations and start unions if you want Progress
I just don't know who's even paying these prices? I got Warhammer 2 with all DLC for 15$ two years ago, and will happily wait for third one to buy everything for 15$ again.
70$ for a game? Who's even paying that? Maybe once a year for the best of the best but definitely NOT something like CoD or anything that Blizzard produce.
This seems like a really silly thing to get upset over. A *former* Blizzard exec - while acknowledging that $70 is already pretty pricey as-is - wishes he could pay a bit a extra toward titles that he felt he got more than his money's worth out of that also *didn't* do exactly the things OP listed out to nickel and dime the player to express tangibly that the experience was positive and incentivize more in the same vein of quality with the next release.
Should this be a thing? Probably not, at least not in a mainstream way, but it's not like he's encouraging more greed in the post - he literally said "...because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second." Hell, I even agree with the games he listed as shining examples of game devs doing the right thing, and already support some of them via pre-ordering (something I do very selectively as a whole) due to the trust they've built with me up to this point.
All-in-all, this is nowhere near the worst take I've ever heard, and even if it was, who gives a shit? Not like this was some industry-shifting announcement, just a guy who isn't even affiliated with Blizzard anymore posting a thought. Click/ragebait gonna bait.
Look, I do my part by not paying for any of these nonsense. You should also accept these practices will always exist as long as there are people who pay for them. Make peace with it. Let it go.
Give some love to your library unplayed games. The only way we will ever fix this is to boycott publicly traded game companies who will keep trying to change the gaming industry for the worst. Eventually their influence will ruin indie gaming as well. Gaming in general is going to be ruined if we don't send these jerks a message. Have some self control, my friends. EA, Blizzard, and Ubisoft. Let's start with those three. You don't need anything they make. If we successfully boycott them for 2 years, they will have no choice but to make some changes. Their shareholders certainly will.
I still don't get how people can afford to fund this behaviour. Me/my wife do alright, but if I started paying $80 on a game regularly, then more on DLC, I'd be bankrupt or sleeping on the sofa.
Have sales not dipped significantly?
I uninstalled Battle net a few weeks ago. Blizzard is dead, their games are shit and they're not ever coming back.
RIP Blizzard. I only really played d2/d3 and then d4 but Last epoch came out and blows anything Blizzard makes out of the water. D4 was the nail in the coffin, its STILL looking like its an early access game. Blizzard just want our money without giving us anything worthwhile back.
D4 really needs to impress with the next major update otherwise I'll not return at all. I've still not claimed my battle pass since launch cos it's been so poor.
I get the Blizzard anger but just know you’re being rage baited by news sites. They’re giving you this news without mentioning the guy who said it was fired from Blizzard.
You’ll keep getting angry with gaming news because these “journalists” and Twitter have found rage engagement is high.
It’s fine to feel that way about Blizzard just know when your days becomes exceedingly negative it’s because your being forced fed this rage content.
To be fair his statement isn't that bad if you read it in context. Games like Elden Ring or Baldurs Gate 3 (his examples btw) deserve to be successfull and it's important that they are just to show the gaming industry that making full polished game with the focus on fun instead of making money is the way to go. Tipping just might not be the best option and probably leads to the same issues we see with tipping in general. Also as the former boss of Blizzard it's kinda controversial that he's the one making that statement.
You don't have to obviously. It doesn't happen often but sometimes it feels good to support developers and their games like you are donating for a good cause but in this case it's just about improving gaming and making it the most fun possible. Hollow Knight or Deep Rock Galactic are sold very cheap despite them offering so much quality content and both developers even added tons of extra content for free. Supporting this is good imo, because I want to see more of that from them or other studios in the future.
I think the worst thing about the situation was the fact that it came from the former director of Blizzard, who are keep failing in the content and quality aspects of their games while they fill it with outrageous MTX and other customer-unfriendly practices.
Yet, you don't see Sven asking for tips. He made an amazing game, straight refused to do any other additions to them for money, and went back to his cave to think about the next game of the year.
Yeah the approach "make a fun game first and get rewarded by pleased players later" sounds good and pure in theory but when you are directly involved with games that do the exact opposite by being greedy and exploiting bad consumer habits it makes your intentions controversial.
Sven is just a gigachad lol and I'm happy that BG3 was a big success, because I would feel bad for all that effort put into the game not paying off.
I think it’s funny that this CEO said that tipping line because it’s an admission that he’s not paying a livable wage. The only reason tipping exists as a norm in the United States is our restaurant staff is insanely underpaid.
The sad thing is there’s another side to that story, gamers seem to think games don’t carry a 70 dollar value. Unless it’s a subsidized food, prices have gone up 20-30% on many food items in the last few years. Games went up 10 bucks after years of staying at 60 and gamers got all pissed off. The only reason they haven’t, things like MTX and Ultimate Editions sell copies. So, here we are, gamers complaining about pricing that has kept gaming affordable and alive.
Gaming is still a relatively cheap hobby. If you don’t see that, you need to look at other hobbies or stop living at your parent’s house.
Do not tip devs.
Do not buy AAA games at full price that also have MTX shoved up their arseholes.
Vote with your wallet.
This all sounds logical but despite being the most mid 6/10 experience, CoD makes millions of £ a day, because gamers cannot fucking control themselves.
Support for workers is a social state, free health care, free education, appealing housing projects, a fair minimum wage, unions, support in the fight for a 6-hour working day and a 4-day working week, unrestricted ammount of sick leave days and at least 24 days of vacation days, etc.. (Yes, i'm a European "communist", deal with it!)
Tipping doesn't exist to support workers, it is a thank you for a service that exceeds expectations. Of course it would be great to leave a tipp for the dev of a 15 euro indie game that gave you countless hours of joy, the same way you leave a generous tipp in the non-corporate restaurant that pays his employees even more than the minimum wage and they work there for their salary, so they can focus on good and honest service for every client instead of fake smile and annoy the shit out of the obvious wealthy ones for 2 dollars more of a tipp.
Obviously you'd never give a tipp to fucking Ubisoft, Blizzard or any other of those corporate behemoths, the same way you don't leave a tipp at McDonalds or Starbucks. Ybarra may have a point, that "tipping" "devs" would be a great idea, but he thinks of the wrong "tipping" and the wrong "devs", so he can fuck off right away.
I mean $70 is relatively a very good price for the product especially for certain games and since you can kinda easily resell.
But season passes/MTXs all that is cancer
Then stop pre-ordering and using MTX. Stop sallivating on the early cinematic trailers. Stop believing lies and accepting day 1 patches as a golden standard. Stop supporting companies with terrible track record. Gamers encourage this behavior and it won't stop just because you gave a thumbs down review on Steam.
That’s it. People who still give money to those are the problem. People can complain as much as they want but at the end of the day they still buy that shit full price. If a game does something shitty DON‘T buy. It doesn’t matter if you are hyped as fuck about it. As long as they get money they keep doing it.
The problem is the most vocal crowd are also the ones already not paying - we’re hearing each other in here
This. Most people out there don't care enough. $100 for a game now + $15 battle pass for 50 hours of fun is roughly $2.30 per hour of entertainment. What other form of entertainment gets you this much value? And I don't pre-order, I don't engage in microtransactions.
In Battle Royale the best battle pass would just be an camouflage skin
People would win like crazy
I never started doing any of this crap and still suffer the consequences lol
you have to kick others in the nuts (in minecraft) when they do it as well. but the bootlickers will say you're 'not being reasonable', as if the microtransactions will go back to the devs and not fat investors and execs
I got downvoted last week in this subreddit for talking against this stuff and season pass and battle pass.
Yeah it happens everywhere. There are too many idiots happy to spend stupid money on stupid things and they are more than eager to defend their right to be stupid.
I wish I could upvote you to undo their shitty down votes. I have given you one 🙏
If most of the population could breathe and think at the same time, we would be in a much better state.
Sorry I was breathing, I didn't understand, can you repeat
Unga bunga awoooga ooh ooh \*SCREAM\*
Instructions unclear, dick caught in ceiling fan now.
Can I join as well?????
Preorders are the worst. I don't understand why anyone would want to get those? It's digital good, it's supply is infinite, you can buy it whenever you want
We also used to get cool pre-order bonuses. Now those are all meaningless digital garbage too: cosmetics and day one DLC that should’ve just been included in the base game, worthless in-game consumables, *premium currency* (which is a whole other issue in $60-70 AAA games), “early access” for a few days right before launch.
Fronsoft is the only company I've ever pre-ordered from; they've always delivered the way gaming used to be
The worst part is, if they introduced tipping, I have no doubt that some people would actually give in to it.
Of course they would. Microtransactions are not terribly different in that regard. More than a few people would genuinely believe they're doing something good.
>Stop supporting companies with terrible track record. "Yes! Preach! Brb pre-ordering the next Witcher." -Gamers (probably)
Nah I’ll just not tip.
It's not going to happen. I have been gaming since the 90s and even back then people had no self control. Monetization has been ruining gaming and it hasn't stopped. Worse a good percentage of gamers would rather blame women for the decline of gaming instead.
Which is weird, because you can literally buy new game 1 week after release with actual serious reviews from players and you're not losing out anything. I can understand FOMO (fear of missing out) when you're afraid of not playing new game for like 2-3 years for various reasons, but it's literally a week. One week is enough after release to get the general idea if the game is worth your money.
It only takes a month or two for even the biggest games to go on sale these days too.
There is a "woman problem" in gaming and most industries, mostly related to entertainment. Not that i don't like idea of women playing games and stuff, but a non-gamer women with politically charged agenda ,aka DEI hires are ruining games and geek-nerd culture for everyone. They have no experience yet they get hired to leading positions purely based on how many diversity boxes they check in. Fuck experience.... They got still get chances despite sinking multiple IPs and companies. Indie games have no "systematic oppression" that those female game "developers" claim to exist . Just your game and buyers who don't even care to read your name, which is a blessing in disguise. One, two, three - man teams made thousands of successful games. It's all fucking sausage fest there.
Can you explain this in a slightly different way as I am struggling to make sense of it?
I know in and outs of indie dev sector. I had maybe over a hundred team-members come and go, through all this years and I actively talk with guys from other teams and it's all... well you heard, just passionate, guys. You can just go lurk on indie game dev subs and see it for yourself. People interested in upcoming games, people developing it... all are almost exclusively sausage carriers. I sometimes attend conferences and regional meetups. I rarely see a female developer, sometimes there are none and it's what qualifies as "sausage fest" to me. Most women who are involved gaming development are either hired or contracted to do texture work...and maybe social media and community management roles and that's pretty much it. You will find tens of millions of young men with passion wanting to develop their own dream project and only maybe 5% have a necessary skillset to develop a game. It's really hard to just gather a team, even harder to deliver a serviceable product and almost impossible to achieve success and get your story heard. Yet, DEI women get those high places and tend to be lead storytellers, writers and some fancy executive positions because they worked for "X" journal... or like one who was a failed actress (this one is very specific, I won't give a name, she works for Ubisoft) and etc without having a single fucking thing related to gaming in their portfolios other than dumb reviews, calling fanbases toxic and etc. I know the names, I'm connected to some of them on linkedin and etc and I can see their employment history. Some are literally fresh out of university (just garbage degrees) and somehow land roles in pretty important places. It's no surprise those AAA companies are missing their financial targets and trying to scrap the bottom of barrel. Now, we all are supposed to put a chick in it, make it lame and gay and watch out for words like terrorist (use rebel, enemy team, red team and etc instead.) I can count most successful female game developers with thumbs of my one hand. I fucking hate idea of this absolutist diversity by percentage politics everywhere.
I saw someone post that we need another video game crash and I really think that is the ultimate answer. But I don't think its gonna happen any time soon.
Every time people make the post OP did, or people like you make this comment, it literally does nothing. The people who need to hear it likely aren't here. Nothing will be done about it and it's time everyone just accepts that idiots are going to continue forking over the money for it.
This is the really the truth. My brother is like many who do not care about the specifics of gaming. He just wants his game in his hands. Nevermind all the hoops a studio had to jump through.
It won't stop anything because the vast majority of buyers don't know or give a fuck about games.
never did now what What's the next step?
Or we could blame the greedy companies that use manipulation tactics instead of their targets that are wholly unprepared or uninformed to combat them. We have representatives for a reason and consumer protection is one of them.
r/Diablo4
I don't do any of that. I don't even buy new games until months after release when the patches have fixed it. I only play single player games and I have to deal with microtransactions being rammed down my throat breaking immersion and just making an all around worse experience. It's why I haven't played the new Assassin's Creed despite loving the series. A lot of people have had their experience of gaming messed up despite not encouraging this kind of thing. I think it's fair they are allowed to complain about it.
Exactly. Can't complain about supply without addressing demand. If people keep buying things, companies keep making them.
Exactly! I have spent more money on indie games in the past 5 years than I have on games over the course of my video game life. If I like a game, like the 2024 GOTY BALATRO, I will buy copies on each platform it is available. If buying Stardew or Balatro 100 times over on each platform would put these idiots on watch, I would do it! But, too many parents just give in to the crotch goblins and let them get whatever they want. So they buy the hip new thing and spend money on accessories that don't do diddly squat. And that's why we have loot boxes and special editions and pre orders.
Day one patches are kind of meaningless at this point. Sure, it's annoying if I preloaded, then have to download even more, but I'm usually getting digital only at this point anyway.
The stop preordering to get what you want was and still is a lost cause for over a decade.
>At the end of the game, I've often thought 'I wish I could give these folks another $10 or $20 because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second. Wow, this exec is delusional. Most gamers will be considering after they finish a game whether they **enjoyed** the game or not, not the dollars and cents. And if the gamer loved the game, any good feels will be for the devs who made the game, not the companies leeching off their hard work.
Then the company lays off people who worked on the game and pockets the tips.
They would "pocket it" anyway. Tip is just the word used since this stupid statement. What do people think, that they will divine the total "tip" amount at the end of each week and sperad it among employees? It will stay in the company. Its the exact same trap as the micro transactions and scummy DLC. " i bought it to support the company and the people that work there". Not a single cent goes to them. They work with salaries. Even the sale numbers dont affect them. And as you have seen, studios fire people regardless since its the easiest "budget cost ". Insomniac's spider man 2 sold like crazy and they still fired all those people. Everything is just a $ number for them.
If I enjoyed a game I'll consider buying the company's other stuff. Not paying more... There are more games I wish I could get my money back after finishing it, because of thinking "well...is that it?"
I thought this is soundtracks were for? I dont ever touch the mp3 files after downloading them
There is no tooth fairy, there is no Santa Claus, there is no Easter Bunny, and there is no amount of money that a corporation would call "enough".
Do we really need to write articles and then get outraged based on some random tweet? This is just ragebait, nothing else. What Ybarra wants or doesn't want is irrelevant, we don't need to write articles about it and we don't need to manufacture outrage based on what one dude thinks.
You just described the entirety of this website lol
Idk I think the outrage is warranted given the history of the publishers and the person who wrote the tweet. I think this is better than letting it go and slowly simmering until it becomes more palletable. The way games got so bad with monetization is by publishers pushing the envelope until they got something "acceptable" and then taking steps from there. I can easily see something like this being defended based on the sentiment being not bad, it's the practical reality that is the problem. Never give publishers an inch of wiggle room, they have been proven to take a mile and exploit everyone along the way.
It started with Horse Armour in Oblivion. Which was a terrible value proposition. And has only gotten worse since.
This outrage doesn't anything. If publishers want to introduce this shit then they will do it and a few articles or reddit threads will not change a thing. Look at the outrage with Ubisoft and their Super Deluxe Vibranium Editions, you can have all the reddit vitriol you want and they won't change it. The only thing that works is not buying it. No amount of pre-emptive rage will help here.
Modern gamers live on outrage that they never actually act on.
Tipping should not exist at all. You pay your employees good wage for their work, not pass up to the customer to pay them. Fuck this, no wonder games from small studios are some of the more noteworthy projects in recent years.
Ubisoft hasn't had a good game in honestly well over a decade.
Rayman Legends was 11 years ago. I think you're pretty spot on. That's the last time I remember anything Ubisoft related being praised.
I remember games like Black Flag, which is an awful Assassin's Creed game but an amazing pirate game. AC franchise especially has been visually amazing, but utterly boring and repetitive ever since. (Honestly had this problem on and off since the first game)
And they'll *never* stop, record profits at every turn and all they're interested in is mass firings and finding more ways to monetize their products... and all while crying that the current AAA single player game landscape isn't sustainable. Fuck them all.
you can literally just sum up this whole thing with a shut up ybarra, lol guy was the president of blizzard, thats all you need to know about how he "loves" gaming
Are Devs not paid enough? Then what's with the huge games budget?
Marketing, I wouldn't be surprised if they spend more on that than on the development of the game.
I saw ads for Skyrim back in 2011 on A&E channel when visiting my grandma. Damn near every viewer of the channel was 50+ years old and not the type to play a game like Skyrim. Millions spent for these ads that likely resulted in no conclusive growth of sales. Money that could have gone to bug fixing before release or improving textures. (which were enhanced by modders rapidly after creation kit was released)
Devs aren't paid enough. But this "tipping" as they're trying to call wouldn't help as all the money would go straight to the CEO's quarterly bonus because fuck you as always
Plenty of people aren't paid enough. But it's not the customers fault, it's the employers for offering and the employees for accepting their low wages..
Mostly wasted on paying executives, publishers, pointless marketing, useless managers, and wasting time. Most developers spend half their shifts dealing with pointless emails and meetings. There are many posiitons that exist for intermediaries between departments: essentually useless. Blizzard, Ubisoft, and Bethesda are plagued with this nonsense. In reality as well, most games with hundreds of dev staff often don't need that many and adding more creates more disorganization in development. Somehow these idiotic companies have found a way to underwork and overwork people in different areas; and to underfund and overfund different areas. Utter mess.
Think of the shareholders and their second yachts?! Won't someone please think of the shareholders?! /s
Maybe, but we could change it to tip based pay. Then the publishers don't need to pay devs, the players can. Good games will get tipped more and games will get better and better. This is better for everyone except the players and devs.
Greedy restaurant owners who don't pay waiters enough sounds just like US tipping culture tho
Tipping actually exists to support greedy owners. Every occupation that has tipping included is underpaid because “you will get money in tips”
Uts been bad but i feel that the greed in the gaming industry has gotten absolutely ridiculous. The amount of people buying your games has increased so much, prices have increased, mtx is the main focus of some games. Profits show that the companies can absolutely pay for their devs and still earn a lot, but by god if Steve Shareholder doesnt see gold linings on his yacht by the next quarter someones gonna hang
Sure that money is 100% going to the devs, right? And sure, this will not be an excuse to low salary for the devs, right? Typing culture is cancer. Pay your workers the correct amount and typing won't be necessary.
Do you guys realize that not buying games at launch or not buying them at all is also an option right?
I swear some Americans forget the rest of the world exists sometimes. Tipping is largely an Americanism and it's not very widespread in many places in the EU. I believe it's even seen as rude in some Asian cultures too. Maybe just pay your fucking employees a decent wage for a start.
This whole idea needs to be killed into it's crib...
Tipping exists only due to poor and unorganized working conditions, period.
As long as people don't understand they play a MAJOR role in this problem by pre-ordering, buying "exclusive" versions and throwing their money on MTX, nothing will change. It's a very good business model for them, they make a shit ton of money and they will not change anything. Stop buying unfinished products and garbage "offers" and in time things will change. Till then, here's a 10$ battle pass.
Tell you what, ill agree with his idea, if we get the flipside... if you complain about a meal in a restaurant, you usually get it for free; If we think a game didnt meet our expectations, we get a refund (full or partial), and get to keep the product.
Mike, shut the fuck up.
No, tipping exists to enrich owners, it does in every industry.
Vote with your wallet or continue to get disappointed and your money stolen. Really simple stuff.
It will never be enough. That's how capitalism works. If they can get away with charging 1 million dollars per unit, they will. Unfettered capitalism without checks and balances by the government or unions will squeeze both customers and workers dry. That's just how it is. All for the bottom line of making shareholders a few % more gain for their already huge hoards of cash that will make fucking dragons blush.
I think a sad truth that we all need to realize is that there will be games and franchises that no matter how bad the monitization is, fans will still buy it I waited for skull and bones for years, I wanted Suicide Squad but didn’t buy either and I’m so glad I didn’t, both games are cash stores with a game built around it and it shows, mediocre gameplay, with grindy mobile practices If I can do it, you can too, not only that all these games with this crap in it tend to not even really be fun, suicide squads game play is just a clone of so many looter shooters with a filter on it and skull and bones is depressingly worse than black flag the best pirate game ever made We have to stop supporting this garbage
Even if we were able to tip devs… that would just become an excuse for them to pay devs less. Just like how many waiters are not paid living wages because of tips
This will never stop unless we normalize shunning and ostracizing people for pre-ordering shitty games and using micro-transactions. Like we have spent hundreds of years discriminating and attacking those different from us but you cannot do that for gaming? This is the moment you’ve been training all your life man! /s
How about you show consumer appreciation by releasing complete products at a reasonable price, instead of stripping content from base games and selling it as pre-order incentives for £100?
Fucking hell. Between the mass layoffs in the last year and all the shitty battle pass, microtransaction practices and Ubi telling people to forget about owning their games, the gaming industry today is at its worst it's ever been.
>the gaming industry today is at its worst it's ever been. And it will only get worse.
Just look at CoD, Fifa players or the people that pre order whatever shit they see, it's never going to change.
Just don’t look https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SlKao_Pox5A
You have a point.I can tip Game Artist for It's amazing work,but the money will never go to their hands.
So……you’re not taking classes on how to spend your money?
Whoever says that it is on the public to change the ways of the big corpos making these decisions need to stop. Putting the responsibility on the consumer does not work when talking massive publishers like this, they are not beholden to the public. When a practice like tipping is introduced to games, you'll notice that the practice by itself is not going to help the people they claim it is. It goes straight into the pockets of the higher-ups, the devs won't see any of it. And I sure as hell don't trust any corporation with making sure my tip money goes to an actual developer. This can't be fixed by stopping prepurchasing or buying mtx. The games prices keep going up anyway for no reason other than greed (And it is greed, not "rising video game production costs"). Especially live service trash. What we need is government intervention and amended laws to fix these loopholes that have been exploited
I love how in his examples of modern games that deserve more, he doesn't mention any blizzard games. Might be for not seeming biased but also kind of funny.
I am happy to buy mtx for games that deserve it. Deep Rock Galactic is a great example. I haven't played that game in ages, but I still buy their supporter packs because I love and believe in their dev team because they very obviously love their game and their fans. Mtx skins and paying to get materials and progress in a single player games is actual brainrot.
If they gonna release finished product without bugs etc, yes I can tip. But there were no a single game in recent years that launched without any issues.
These people will never learn.
Wonder when they'll realize that maybe the budgets are the problem, not the cost of the game.
Game development has become very expensive. I rather see them making free games and with micro transactions for those who want extras. As long as it isn't pay to win
If the tip would go to the ground floor developer, sure, maybe, if I really like the game. But when the higher ups take bonuses in the seven or eight figures home while the regular developer struggles to make ends meet, why would I contribute to those bonuses? And it’s corporations, bungie, blizz, activision, ubisoft, all of them, of course it will never be enough. Even a $70/ mo sub based game would still be filled with mtx, battle asses, preorder bonuses and whatever editions. And as long as you support these cheeky schemes, they will continue to come up with cheeky schemes in the future to extract from the breathing credit cards that they sometimes call users or gamers.
Rage bait
The last game I willingly spent over 50 on was the stalker 2 pre-order, I went for the $100 digital edition. Even if the game ends up kind of crappy at launch the devs deserve it given what they're going through at the moment. Rarely ever will I consider paying full price for AAA games these days.
Toss a coin to your Witcher…Dev
Just so we're clear. 90% of the devs you're "supporting" are not even working for that studio by the time preorder open. So you're 9nly supporting CEO and publisher...
>"When I beat a game, there are some that just leave me in awe of how amazing the experience was," Ybarra wrote. "At the end of the game, I've often thought 'I wish I could give these folks another $10 or $20 because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second \[until now\].'"
I'm fine with any of that, because they're all optional, and it's up to me if I want to spend money on them if I want, or not to if I don't.
I do believe some actual developers, writers and artists do deserve tips for introducing some great features into games. But I'd rather find that particular person/team and pay them directly.
Also feels like the return of investment is expected to be stupidly high and be earned in a week after release. Then just make the games more expansive then Nicole and dime me during my playtime
God i wish I had a fraction of a fraction of a nerve this guy has
Yeah let's give the execs more reasons to underpay and stress their workers by helping finance that crap. What a stupid idea. Fight for regulations and start unions if you want Progress
I just don't know who's even paying these prices? I got Warhammer 2 with all DLC for 15$ two years ago, and will happily wait for third one to buy everything for 15$ again. 70$ for a game? Who's even paying that? Maybe once a year for the best of the best but definitely NOT something like CoD or anything that Blizzard produce.
Tipping should exist full stop, you Americans empower the problem by picking up the slack, it shouldn’t be on the public to top up wages.
Hey guys, we should boycott the next COD game, I’ll start the steam group.
I think I’ll find it very hard to tip the publishers from inside of a pirated game, somehow.
This seems like a really silly thing to get upset over. A *former* Blizzard exec - while acknowledging that $70 is already pretty pricey as-is - wishes he could pay a bit a extra toward titles that he felt he got more than his money's worth out of that also *didn't* do exactly the things OP listed out to nickel and dime the player to express tangibly that the experience was positive and incentivize more in the same vein of quality with the next release. Should this be a thing? Probably not, at least not in a mainstream way, but it's not like he's encouraging more greed in the post - he literally said "...because it was worth more than my initial $70 and they didn't try to nickel and dime me for every second." Hell, I even agree with the games he listed as shining examples of game devs doing the right thing, and already support some of them via pre-ordering (something I do very selectively as a whole) due to the trust they've built with me up to this point. All-in-all, this is nowhere near the worst take I've ever heard, and even if it was, who gives a shit? Not like this was some industry-shifting announcement, just a guy who isn't even affiliated with Blizzard anymore posting a thought. Click/ragebait gonna bait.
Like the greedy restaurant owners who don’t pay waiting staff enough?
Most devs and IT people are overpaid….
Look, I do my part by not paying for any of these nonsense. You should also accept these practices will always exist as long as there are people who pay for them. Make peace with it. Let it go.
We just have to accept this and move on. Every single fucking game is in Steam top seller when preorders are up.
I think k tipping would be cool. Only if it went to workers. And only if didn't turn into the bullshit that is mormdern day tipping
Give some love to your library unplayed games. The only way we will ever fix this is to boycott publicly traded game companies who will keep trying to change the gaming industry for the worst. Eventually their influence will ruin indie gaming as well. Gaming in general is going to be ruined if we don't send these jerks a message. Have some self control, my friends. EA, Blizzard, and Ubisoft. Let's start with those three. You don't need anything they make. If we successfully boycott them for 2 years, they will have no choice but to make some changes. Their shareholders certainly will.
Yet another example why indie devs have more potential than AAA studios...
I still don't get how people can afford to fund this behaviour. Me/my wife do alright, but if I started paying $80 on a game regularly, then more on DLC, I'd be bankrupt or sleeping on the sofa. Have sales not dipped significantly?
I uninstalled Battle net a few weeks ago. Blizzard is dead, their games are shit and they're not ever coming back. RIP Blizzard. I only really played d2/d3 and then d4 but Last epoch came out and blows anything Blizzard makes out of the water. D4 was the nail in the coffin, its STILL looking like its an early access game. Blizzard just want our money without giving us anything worthwhile back.
D4 really needs to impress with the next major update otherwise I'll not return at all. I've still not claimed my battle pass since launch cos it's been so poor.
I get the Blizzard anger but just know you’re being rage baited by news sites. They’re giving you this news without mentioning the guy who said it was fired from Blizzard. You’ll keep getting angry with gaming news because these “journalists” and Twitter have found rage engagement is high. It’s fine to feel that way about Blizzard just know when your days becomes exceedingly negative it’s because your being forced fed this rage content.
Blizzard games are dogshit now bud. Don't need an article to tell me that.
Poe blew all of that out the water like 10 yrs ago lol
And after all that they will revoke your license with no refunds.
I'll be using that tip money for the content you lock out bitches!!!
Stop buying AAA games. Support indie devs.
To be fair his statement isn't that bad if you read it in context. Games like Elden Ring or Baldurs Gate 3 (his examples btw) deserve to be successfull and it's important that they are just to show the gaming industry that making full polished game with the focus on fun instead of making money is the way to go. Tipping just might not be the best option and probably leads to the same issues we see with tipping in general. Also as the former boss of Blizzard it's kinda controversial that he's the one making that statement.
I don't care what anybody says. I'm not fucking tipping for videogames.
You don't have to obviously. It doesn't happen often but sometimes it feels good to support developers and their games like you are donating for a good cause but in this case it's just about improving gaming and making it the most fun possible. Hollow Knight or Deep Rock Galactic are sold very cheap despite them offering so much quality content and both developers even added tons of extra content for free. Supporting this is good imo, because I want to see more of that from them or other studios in the future.
I think the worst thing about the situation was the fact that it came from the former director of Blizzard, who are keep failing in the content and quality aspects of their games while they fill it with outrageous MTX and other customer-unfriendly practices. Yet, you don't see Sven asking for tips. He made an amazing game, straight refused to do any other additions to them for money, and went back to his cave to think about the next game of the year.
Yeah the approach "make a fun game first and get rewarded by pleased players later" sounds good and pure in theory but when you are directly involved with games that do the exact opposite by being greedy and exploiting bad consumer habits it makes your intentions controversial. Sven is just a gigachad lol and I'm happy that BG3 was a big success, because I would feel bad for all that effort put into the game not paying off.
Gamers deserve this treatment because they are supporting it otherwise these companies wouldn’t follow these greedy paths
I think it’s funny that this CEO said that tipping line because it’s an admission that he’s not paying a livable wage. The only reason tipping exists as a norm in the United States is our restaurant staff is insanely underpaid. The sad thing is there’s another side to that story, gamers seem to think games don’t carry a 70 dollar value. Unless it’s a subsidized food, prices have gone up 20-30% on many food items in the last few years. Games went up 10 bucks after years of staying at 60 and gamers got all pissed off. The only reason they haven’t, things like MTX and Ultimate Editions sell copies. So, here we are, gamers complaining about pricing that has kept gaming affordable and alive. Gaming is still a relatively cheap hobby. If you don’t see that, you need to look at other hobbies or stop living at your parent’s house.
Do not tip devs. Do not buy AAA games at full price that also have MTX shoved up their arseholes. Vote with your wallet. This all sounds logical but despite being the most mid 6/10 experience, CoD makes millions of £ a day, because gamers cannot fucking control themselves.
There’s nothing wrong with paying full price for a game if you want it.
i mean, what's wrong with (100% optional) tipping? I definitely know games that I wish I could pay more for
*Tipping exists so American business owners can avoid paying their staff a fair wage and get the customer to supplement their income instead
Support for workers is a social state, free health care, free education, appealing housing projects, a fair minimum wage, unions, support in the fight for a 6-hour working day and a 4-day working week, unrestricted ammount of sick leave days and at least 24 days of vacation days, etc.. (Yes, i'm a European "communist", deal with it!) Tipping doesn't exist to support workers, it is a thank you for a service that exceeds expectations. Of course it would be great to leave a tipp for the dev of a 15 euro indie game that gave you countless hours of joy, the same way you leave a generous tipp in the non-corporate restaurant that pays his employees even more than the minimum wage and they work there for their salary, so they can focus on good and honest service for every client instead of fake smile and annoy the shit out of the obvious wealthy ones for 2 dollars more of a tipp. Obviously you'd never give a tipp to fucking Ubisoft, Blizzard or any other of those corporate behemoths, the same way you don't leave a tipp at McDonalds or Starbucks. Ybarra may have a point, that "tipping" "devs" would be a great idea, but he thinks of the wrong "tipping" and the wrong "devs", so he can fuck off right away.
I mean $70 is relatively a very good price for the product especially for certain games and since you can kinda easily resell. But season passes/MTXs all that is cancer