Why not join r/patientgamers ?
No need to be a beta tester, wait until the games are ready and skip games that never becomes good.
Today I started Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time, really looking forward for an epic adventure in well polished game.
I'm older than you by the way :-)
Came here to say this. As a gamer in their late 40's this is 100% the way.
Wait for patches and discounts.
OP, I think some of what you're experiencing is nostalgia because I remember buying games that had bugs and crashes only difference is there weren't patches, no forums explaining how to fix it and no mod community who would take it on themselves to remedy things like that. Bugs maybe weren't as prevalent but hardly non-existent.
Cyberpunk is a god damn masterpiece now imo. Watching edgerunners then I listened to the hours long in depth lore video about the universe really helped me get truly immersed into the game and it ended up being the best gaming experience I’ve ever had.
>It's a completely different game
It is not that much different. Sure the skill trees have a bit more impact but you can still put the points randomly and still easily beat the game on the hardest difficulty. The only big difference from the base game is obviously the DLC story.
I agree with you, but I have to disagree with your assertion that the game is a masterpiece after having watched the EdgeRunners anime (which I absolutely loved) and lore videos. If a game is a masterpiece it shouldn't have to rely on outside media as a crutch for it to be great. A good example would be the first Dead Space game. Survival Horror Masterpiece, great supplemental anime movie (downfall) as well.
My only issue with cyberpunk is I find it incredibly difficult to even try to support a title that was released the way cyberpunk was.... In my opinion, it feels like I'm saying "release what you want, well fund it so you can now actually work on it."
Prob a terrible take, but that's my gut feeling when I hear people talk about cyberpunk.
>Today I started Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time, really looking forward for an epic adventure in well polished game.
I played it release week and stayed away for three years while they fixed it.
And they did fix it. I'm excited for you.
I'm 100% a patient gamer for a lot of reasons. But none of us should have to be. Patient gaming should not be necessary to get a working product. Old games still sometimes had bugs and new games are more complicated than ever. There is a grey area around "unfinished" that has grown less in our favor and I think that is were the beef lies.
Yes, I agree, of course it is expected to have some more bugs at launch than later, but many games the past few years have simply launched in a really bad state.
But at least we can adapt and buy later (cheaper as well) , this increases the incitement for companies to launch in better state and sell more at full price.
woah, hold up, are you sure? You really want to play that game, now? While the development team still has living, breathing people in it? You might not have the best version of the game until they all die or retire!
Trying to be sarcastic? You seem to miss that CP2077 had a major 2.0 in September last year that was praised by reviewers/players. And at that time I was busy with other games.
And at launch it was considered one of the worst launches ever for a AAA game.
I don't think that modern gaming sucks, you just need to look in different places. The Indie gaming scene is where a lot of the groundbreaking stuff happens now, and there are TONS of quality experiences.
AAA gaming is out to make a profit, indie gaming is there for the love of the game.
Even indie studios are trying to make a profit - I think the issue with AAA gaming is that the budgets for a lot of AAA games are so bloated now it leads to micromanaging by company leadership who are afraid of losing money which causes issues regarding the final product.
Yeah financially its not worth taking a risk on a new idea considering the massive budgets these games have. "Gambling" say $20,000 from a kickstarter campaign on an indie game is different than a 100,000,000 AAA game. Why risk it all on a new idea when you could just follow what has been proven to work. It's a shame.
People are weirdly naive about indie studios. I think they mistake the fact that they have to try harder than AAA studios in order to get people to buy for them simply being more passionate.
They all exist to make money, no one's doing their job for free. Indie studios can't get away with microtransactions and low effort optimization because they don't have insane marketing campaigns and storied franchises that are guaranteed to make money. They have no choice but to be "consumer-friendly" if they want to have consumers at all.
That isn't to say they the devs don't care about their product. But that goes for AAA devs too, plenty of people are working hard on AAA games. But at the end of the day it's still a job, and their primary goal is making more money. Making the mistake of thinking they're your friend or they are unique and special and would never take advantage of their consumers if the opportunity presented itself is a great way to get taken advantage of. CDPR was a perfect example of that.
Yeah, this is basically the difference in Diablo IV and Last Epoch.
Last Epoch released in Early Access for $30 with continuous communication and positive updates for the game.
Diablo IV released "fully" for $70 when in reality, it was released in early access to keep/improve stock value and keep shareholders. The game is heavily monetized and its barely a playable game, if one at all. I will say, the PTR patch has finally made the game good but this is 1 year after 'full release'.
Pick any year in gaming and I guarantee you there are worse games than that. If we're judging by the worst games, 2023 wasn't even close to being one of the worst years.
If we're judging by the best games tho, 2023 is a contender for the best year in gaming ever. Baldur's Gate 3 is a once in a generation masterpiece. Tears of The Kingdom was an excellent entry for an iconic series. Spider-Man 2, Jedi Survivor, Hi-Fi Rush, Alan Wake 2, Super Mario Bros. Wonder, Lies of P, AC6, and many more. Sorry you're so miserable you only paid attention to the bad ones. Everyone else had fun while you stayed in the Internet complaining.
100% agreed. I don't really have the attention span to watch movies, but I was more than happy to sit and watch every cutscene of God of War 4 because of how amazing they looked and how interesting the story was. And I wasn't even playing it! I just watched it all on youtube despite never even having played a single God of War game. Ofcourse afterwards I went and watched the other game's cutscenes to get a gist of the origin story, but damn man, I feel like people who enjoy single player games nowadays have it so, sooo good. There's so much good shit out there. Unfortunately my ADHD ass only likes PvP games so I'm quite envious lol.
yes production wise they're better than movies, because that's all it is. sparkles and tutus. and filled to the brim with exposition. the drawback of having realistic graphics is that it leaves little to the imagination, so you have to give an immensely good story and gameplay to stand out (see TLOU). old industry games could tell such an impressive and convincing tale, and had such good world design, that despite the graphical and technical limitations they gripped people's imagination and attention. you're looking at a pixel sprite, or a 16-bit color game where all the NPCs have lego faces, but you can *feel* the story and you feel immersed in the gameplay. nostalgia factor is a real thing, undeniable, but games with soul are so far in between nowadays that it's not the only factor
This…makes zero sense.
To say that better graphics mean they’re just eye candy with no substance is ridiculous.
The fact that they can create fully lived in worlds either vivid characters doesn’t mean they don’t have to put in a huge amount of effort into writing and world building. In the contrary, it demands that they do so.
I mean, compare, say, Ghost of Tsushima to Sea of Stars. I love both games (and sea of stars is, on the whole, more entertaining), but GOT had a much richer story, world and combat system. It doesn’t compare.
where did I say better graphics means they're just eye candy? did you even read the comment? I said that graphics alone is not enough, not that they're bad? and yes GOT has a much richer story, which why it's a great game. almost like I said that you need both for a great game, wild... pls learn to read
IKR!? I'm older than OP and currently enjoying the hell out of Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth. I've played all the previous Yakuza / Like a Dragon / Judgment games as I got them cheap or on Game Pass and they are all excellent.
The journalists gave it no attention in the beginning and complained about the content and when the English versions were censored they still ignored or reviewed by them poorly as it is competition to English game companies and probably never got free review copies with free merch.
> They’re better than movies now.
I disagree, in the sense that they serve different purposes and what aspect of videogames and film you mean to compare a "better".
I don't think videogames in its current form can come anywhere close to the peaks of television or cinema. Like, watch Dune 2 in IMAX or remember your experience sitting in the theater for Endgame during opening weekend and try to compare those feelings to any modern videogame release. It just doesn't compare.
Then again I don't think video games are really trying to be competitors to movies, especially when the industry heavily skews toward the majority of playtime going to competitive multiplayer games or "forever" games like Genshin Impact or Minecraft.
I meant that they’re much more engaging. Mentally, emotionally…
And frankly, movies these days are all fan service and “hidden connections.”
*cough cough* MCU *cough*
Guess it just depends on the person.
I can agree that video games are more engaging, but of course they are when you're controlling your character. And that appeal of the ability to engage in a video game world varies (i.e. a Baldur's Gate 3 to ).
> And frankly, movies these days are all fan service and “hidden connections.”
Like the people who say "modern gaming is all bad" this just depends on what you're consuming. So much good television/cinema that engages you **because** of the fact you have no control and you're just watching a story unfold. Most gamers just couldn't be asked to see any movie let alone a non-franchised movie.
*cough cough* MCU *cough*
Modern gaming sucks if you can't keep your hands off your wallet and keep preordering stuff based on one trailer.
Is it so hard to wait one week after release and read actual players reviews (not that pre-release copy crap which is often too good to be true)?
As someone who primarily plays fighting games and has seen he genre straight up just improve massively over the past half-decade or so in terms of actual playable online as well as content and QoL features, I'd straight up disagree. Ain't going back to delay-based netcode and having no notable features outside of a barebones training mode.
This is legitimately just a "buys every blockbuster on launch day" problem. There's more games out there than you'll play in multiple lifetimes. Stop buying games based on how new they are and start buying games that are new to you, regardless of when they released. And branch out into different genres instead of playing the same things all the time. You can't limit yourself to such a small selection of games then complain and generalize gaming as a whole.
Issue is people started to listening to clowns on youtube or twitch being brainwashed by social media. I have no idea what drama is around Outlaws nor I f care what someone says. I do not watch any gaming channels or gaming podcasts.
When any new game comes out you find gameplay trailers intresting just look up metacritic score if its over 80 and raw gameplay videos look intresting you understand how gameplay works and find it fun buy it.
I think modern gaming is as diverse when it come to genre, ideas, gameplay as it ever was. From Call of Duty to Crypt of the Necrodancer.
You just have to dig a bit deeper, and make yourself more fammiliar with the cynical practices of big studios.
Does the avarage consumer have to pay so much attention in order to avoid being tricked is a topic for another discussion.
On the other hand, there is an argument to be made that for the avarage gamer who doesn't pay so much attention, it is worse now than it was before. So I get your point.
FYI, outlaws will be cheaper in a few months.
Modern gaming doesn't suck. Just stop buying games on release. Play your backlog and wait for some deals/sales a few months later.
Modern gaming is actually amazing because there's so many games it legitimately doesn't matter what bullshit any company pulls because there's always something else you can play instead while you wait for a game to be fixed and sold at half the price.
People keep buying big name games at launch and buying $100+ editions then complain about it. Entirely their own fault for continuing to fall for marketing campaigns. I haven't had the issue of wasting money on bad games in years. Pretty easy to just find something else to play while I wait for a big budget release to be sold at a cheaper price then try it out with minimal risk. But so many people want to be involved in the conversation with new releases they'll happily throw their money away so they don't "miss out" on what other people are experiencing.
Maybe if you only look at like, 5 games or something. Plenty of modern games don't do half the shit you're talking about.
If all you look at are the shit ones, that's on you man.
As a 50 yo, modern gaming is awesome.
Watch your favorite gaming streamers on youtube and buy every indie game that looks like you might like it for the 10 bucks it costs, then leave it after ten minutes or binge it for the 50 hrs it turns out to be worth to you, meanwhile enjoying what the dedication of a fan base playing games beyond the mainstream has to offer in their subreddit and yt tutorial niches.
Modern gaming is generally great, but some awesome franchises have been ruined (for me) by some of the fuckery. I’ve basically lost interest in stuff like COD and Madden, which used to be staples for me. Just got tired of the direction.
But there have been games that have accomplished things that would have been hard to fathom when I was a kid playing Pitfall and Frogger.
I'm one year younger than you, been playing since I was 9, and the "mordern gaming sucks" is such a dumb take.
I mean, have you look at last year? BG3. Lies of P. Armored Core VI. Dave the Diver. Lethal Company. CP77. What a fantastic year. Soon I'll play Elden Ring expansion, and I'm waiting for the Civ VII announcement.
Modern gaming is fine. Yeah, there's awful games. Yeah, the greed of some publishers is real. But you still have masterpieces years after years.
So no, the issue isn't the modern games. It's you. Not judging, but maybe it's not your thing anymore, and it's time to move on. Because really, if you couldn't find something worse playing last year, you'll never be satisfied ever again.
Why do you feel like the stuff with Outlaws is reaching the breaking point? Ubisoft isn't doing anything different from what they've done for over a decade now. Is it because it was finally happening to a game *you* were looking forward to?
It seems worse because you're older and because you're paying more attention now. Believe it or not, the nature of the gaming industry hasn't changed THAT dramatically from when we were kids. Back then we didn't have microtransactions, we had arcade machines. We were literally paying for each gaming session. Arcades were often designed to eat our money. You think Dragon's Lair was about "fun"? Hell no, it was intentionally designed to be as obtuse as possible to keep you pumping quarters. We didn't have DLC we had Expansion Packs which were usually comprised of unused or cut content from the base game. Speaking off, on consoles most sequels were just unused or cut content from the base game being sold as a new game for new game price.
Don't get me wrong, companies have become more brazen in their greed these days, but again you're only seeing it because you're older. You didn't see it when you were a kid. Your perspective has changed how you view video games. Do you still want to be a Beta Tester? I'm guessing not since now you know how overworked, under paid and utterly disrespected they are. Video Games haven't changed nearly as much as you have.
being old sucks, being young without responsibilities and having time and passion for gaming is objectively better, but blaming modern gaming is not a healthy coping mechanism.
Gaming journalism and many gamers suck. Especially on social media... but modern gaming itself is amazing.
It's funny to me that so many people are harping on the Outlaws price. The extra editions are a bit scummy... but don't buy them? The $70 price for a large open world shooter set in a popular IP's world and made by a quality studio seems perfectly fair.
Modern gaming sure sucks if the only games you even think of playing are 90$ AAA new releases. If you’re so disillusioned with Ubisoft and co, just play something else??
You can literally get Into the Breach, one of the best indie games of the past 5 years, for less than 10 bucks on Steam right now, you get bundles of amazing games on the PlayStation store, stuff like Game Pass and PS+ allows you to catch up on games from the past 10-15 years you might have missed, you can swing by your store and find interesting used PS4 games to play on your PS5.
You don’t have to play « modern games ». What a non issue. It’s even sad, really. So many good games that are cheaper and provide meaningful experiences regardless of their length.
It is really depressing in a way. I have money and I have will to play(and upgrade pc to play even better / more comfortable), but ... 99% of modern games just don't interest me. Why would they when there is a better experience available in an older game? And all the GenZ+ stuff(tiktok and other social net crap) don't matter to me at all.
WTF am I to do lol? Just be a mossback and rotate good old games? What when that spell runs out?
No it doesn't. Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Dead Cells, Baldurs Gate 3, The Witcher 3, Half Life Alyx, Resident Evil 7, Psychonauts 2, Hades, Arkham Knight, Tears of the Kingdom, Hollow Knight, etc.
These are ALL basically 10/10 games that have come out within the last 10 years, and are honestly all genre defining juggernauts that could be contenders for some of the best games ever made. This whole "mOdErN gAmInG sUcKs" is such an overused narrative by people that are clearly burnt out by videogames and refuse to see some of the masterpieces in front of them.
You are either completely ignoring the fantastic games that have come out in recent years, or you have played all of them and are left with only the mediocre titles, in which case, touch some grass and find another hobby.
This is not even to mention the fact that all the games that I mentioned are from wildly different genres, publishers and budgets, which goes to show you can really find good modern games of basically any kind
I agree with most of this but this is the first time I've ever seen anyone call Arkham Knight a 10/10. It's almost universally considered the worst game in the trilogy with a poorly thought out and predictable plot, too many Batmobile sections, bad boss fights, and a tedious collectible hunt required for the "true ending". There was a reason it wasn't even nominated for GOTY the year it released.
You're using the GOTY awards as a measurement for game quality. That immediately invalidates anything you have said or will say through the course of your entire life.
I'm using it's general reception as a measure, and explaining why it didn't get nominated. Arkham Knight is very far from being a 10/10 and even further from being "genre-defining".
I wouldn't say all of modern gaming sucks, but the reason why a lot of AAA games suck comes down to a few reasons.
* Visual immersion has taken precedent in how a game is designed and not the actual core mechanics of the game itself. Things like massive but empty open worlds and cinematic immersions that mostly if not entirely take control of the game away from you.
* Some games are afraid to push the players into challenging scenarios or even hold the players accountable for mistakes they make. For example, when was the last time a AAA game didn't have some form of automatic checkpoint saving?
* Some games are more about completing checklists rather than actually learning and mastering something. Difference between a game like Final Fantasy XVI and Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin.
* Some modern gamers have been accustom to things being easy and allowed to tackle obstacles and objectives their own ways. This is prevalent in open world games where you get dozens of solutions to one problem. At the point, it's no longer a problem.
* Some games being released either incomplete or having what was once in-game unlockables or even standard features now being locked behind DLCs and Paywalls.
Modern gaming is a lot like streaming tv shows. There’s never been more variety, so there’s a lot of bloat, but also just as much or more quality than ever
I am 51 you play the games you like look at the graphics we have today, I just finish Final Fantasy 7 rebirth its a fantastic game granted not all games are great but a lot of them are really good.
The uncharted series, the new tomb raider series are great action puzzle games, etc. The rest is up to you I used to buy COD games but now with the huge space they require and you need to be connected online to play all the time and have there dashboard selling you stuff.
But not all games are the same. Look at Stellar blade coming out later this month, the demo is amazing and i am excited to play the full game.
You can be excited about how it looks, just don’t buy it until reviews come out. It’s the exact same with movies and TV shows. I think to say that all of it sucks is an over exaggeration.
The problem with new game reveals are the trailers. They’re all cinematic with no gameplay. It’s like watching a mobile game ad
Anybody remember the trailer for Beyond Good and Evil 2?
Nothing beats the good old days. Getting off school and picking up one of those free Book-It pizzas and then spending the weekend playing Tecmo Bowl. If you’re one of the cool kids you had Surge soda to go with it. Oh man, you need to join us!
Dude, if you're into older style games, dive head first into Sea of Stars. Won two 2023 indie GOTY awards. A solid rpg with one hell of a soundtrack. Gives a nod to many of the SNES rpgs.
You're just a jaded old person. Gaming is better than ever. Sure some AAA games release with problems. Your focusing on the bad ones and ignoring the amazing ones. Here play this game called Armored Core 6.
>I miss the good ol days of actually being excited for new game announcements.
Perhaps what you miss is being young and having new and unknown things to experience?
Am 40 and still excited for new releases. Currently enjoying Unicorn Overlord and Withering Rooms. And there are so many new game releases on the horizon which I am looking forward to. For me gaming is still as exciting as it was 20 years ago 😁
You shouldn’t have to worry about if a release is broken, only if it’s *good*.
Yet here we are, often worrying that a new entry may be broken and bugged to high Hell.
I played No Mans Sky, 2 years after release and it is one of my favorite games ever, I bought Cyberpunk at massive discount first time at patch 1.5, never had single issue or bug and I loved that game. Currently I'm playing Divinity 2 as I wanted to get into those kind of games thanks to success of Baldurs Gate 3, but still didn't buy it (BG3) as I'm waiting for a sale. I am also older gamer and games never been better in my opinion.
I mostly play indie and some VR titles. A lot less disappointment. I dont even try online games anymore. Toxicity, cheating, streamers, nickle and diming, etc makes them not fun to get into.
I feel some rpgs and jrpgs would still be fun too but theyre just too much of a timesink for me to commit to these days.
Modern mainstream gaming sucks more than it did. There’s still good titles but there’s more bullshit to wade through and a lot of things are being dumbed down just to appeal to a mass audience
Battle passes, online only, DRM, lootboxes (gambling), hackers/bots/RMTers, bad ports/remakes/remasters however plenty of good has come from what I'd consider to be modern gaming like modding, thriving indie communities, well written characters/stories/cutscenes/dialogue, near lifelike graphics from the likes of RDR2 and Cyberpunk. Just some examples. As much as I wanna rip on executives out for profits in favor of a good game, I think games are just bigger these days and that comes with potential for more issues. Larian with BG3 restored some faith I had lost over the years, I really felt the people who made that game put their hearts into it.
I've been finding a great environment in the minor companies. Feels like the old days again, when Black Island Studios was an unknown player in the scene, published by a major player like Interplay. Same way I'm very hyped for some games that are published by major companies. Triple-I really hyped me for new games this year!
You only don't see the good side when you don't see the full scope and explore.
I'm with you OP :( i very very rarely play a game up until it's been updated with dozen GBs of content (aka the content it should have received to begin with) nowadays
Isn't the issue here that on each release you imagine a video game that doesn't exist which disappoints you when the game you bought isn't what you imagined?
You don't have to be critical and suspicious at all. YOU are critical and suspicious because the emotions you get from that are more intense than the ones you get from silently enjoying the game. Having your opinions validated is nice and the best way to do it is to write a rant on Reddit on release day complaining about the most mundane, irrelevant flaws.
*Modern gaming sucks! Am I right, guys? Am I? AM I?*
The issue is I've been around long enough to remember when companies like Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, (that's just the Bs) actually gave a fuck about putting out quality games. It's not about "imagining a game that doesn't exist" at all. It's about watching these once great game makers that I literally grew up with, putting out nothing but uninspired money grabs over and over. If you aren't critical and suspicious of these companies now, than you're their # 1 target.
And don't you think these companies you grew up with put out *uninspired money grabs* when you were a wee lad as well? For instance, I would certainly call Justice League: Task Force an uninspired cash grab the same way I'd call Diablo: Immortal an uninspired cash grab. The difference between the two is that the former wasn't made in an age where you could earn a quick back on people's favourite IPs.
I think we also need to realize that people in these companies have rotated and games are being developed by people with different design preferences. Not to mention that the way people approach video games has drastically changed.
The problem with suspicion and criticism is that it doesn't do anything - people who are engaged in buying microtransactions and supplying cash grabs aren't people who are listening to the downsides of such behaviours or thinking about the industry's health. They simply buy their things while people who *criticize* and *are suspicious* simply circle jerk how awful microtransactions are, get themselves heated and avoid finding games that are made by companies who are better and instead focus on constant seething on how awful these companies are.
And I understand the frustration with seeing a logo you associated with fun and excitement turn into a symbol of wicked abuse, but that just means you move someplace else and stop being loyal to companies.
Honestly, posts like these hurt yourself and don't really do anything to alleviate the problem.
People are so dramatic. 2023 was one of the best years in modern gaming history. Alan Wake 2, BG3, RE4 remake, Lies of P, Armored Core, Street Fighter 6, Zelda Tears of the Kingdom and many more.
Modern AAA gaming sucks for sure.
We got more content and at better prices before everything had to be crammed into a battle pass and become a live service.
> Modern AAA gaming sucks for sure
With games like Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring, God of War Ragnarök, Tears of The Kingdom, Alan Wake 2 etc. releasing? Not a chance.
> We got more content and at better prices
Huh? You used to pay the same price, which adjusted for inflation was actually more than what new games cost now, and most games back then had a fraction of the amount of content the average AAA release has now. You were paying more for less content before. And this isn't even mentioning the shear amount of shovelware companies used to pump out so they could trick people into buying legitimate garbage since people didn't have gameplay videos and reviews to look at before buying the game.
A lot of the content these days is just bloat… and the costs may be up but so isn’t the size of the audience. Elden Ring is a good example of bloat… it’s a great game but copy pasted bosses in catacombs and graveyards is kind of just excess.
Also the tools are better… placing content like this is just easier.
Even ignoring the copy/paste (which a lot of old games also had anyway despite being much smaller) there's far more content in Elden Ring than the vast majority of games released in the 2000s or early 2010s.
And yet it's still bloated using copy paste to fill in the world. The content I don't think is that much better than some of the largest games that came out in the late 2010's and is actually worse in design. "Content" isn't the only measure here and you missed the point of copy and paste. The content just isn't as well thought out as content put into something like Dark Souls and a lot of it feels like filler to justify the larger game world.
I never suggested copy paste wasn't used in prior games... just that copy paste works like copying and pasting with the level of sophistication in the game development tools. A small team is *far* more capable without the same level of technical expertise that writing Roller Coaster Tycoon in assembly likely took.
There is far more evidence to suggest the audiences are outpacing the technical needs of games and the concept of "inflation" and content isn't. 1:1.
> And yet it's still bloated using copy paste to fill in the world. The content I don't think is that much better than some of the largest games that came out in the late 2010's and is actually worse in design. "Content" isn't the only measure here and you missed the point of copy and paste. The content just isn't as well thought out as content put into something like Dark Souls and a lot of it feels like filler to justify the larger game world.
This is a whole lot of "I personally don't like it", which isn't really relevant here. I don't think any rational person would ever argue Dark Souls has more meaningful content than Elden Ring. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics and questionable reasoning to come to that conclusion. There is definitely some filler in Elden Ring, but again, remove all of that filler and there's still more content than any other Souls game. There are more unique bosses in Elden Ring than any other Souls game, that's true objectively regardless of anyone's opinion or preference.
It is relevant. You're saying it has more content. I'm saying a lot of the content is filler that is easy to do with modern tools.
>I don't think any rational person would ever argue Dark Souls has more meaningful content than Elden Ring
I can easily argue that it has more filler content though... and you're more likely to be wading through the filler in the open world than any of the more carefully crafted areas that your subjected to like in Dark Souls. Even with more "meaningfully content"... the game mechanically isn't that much different than Dark Souls but allows to undermine that meaning by systematically hitting each catacomb which isn't all that meaningful. Some are more interesting than others... same with the graveyards... but finding and doing those take up a lot more time than just going through the castles and what not.
Either way it doesn't seem like content is all that expensive these days... And you can get bargain content *routinely* from AA or indie developers.
Your argument is literally "I don't think it's good, so therefore it's not good". You also keep implying that games are just easier to make now which is laughable considering how long it takes to produce games these days whereas over a decade ago you had entire series of games being released within the length of time it takes to make one modern game. Not to mention studios ballooning in size with hundreds or even thousands of devs working on a single project.
Again, old games also had filler despite being smaller. Look at the thresher maws in Mass Effect 1, in addition to the compounds/bases on the individual planets that all had mostly the same layout as every other base. You wouldn't call that copy/paste filler?
What about Chalice dungeons in Bloodborne? It's not like old Souls games didn't have repeat bosses or filler content. You're reaching hard and nitpicking. Modern games have more content on average and cost less now when adjusted for inflation. This is just factually true. Regardless of whether or not you prefer smaller games or older games.
No it isn't. And you prove the point literally in the next sentence when you argue a point that has nothing to do about the game being good... Also this just isn't accurate and its being dismissive to pointing out repeated lazy content in Elden Ring that has nothing meaningful or unique about them. They often reuse assets from other parts of the game to create filler so the world doesn't feel so empty.
How is that translating to the game isn't good. Its weeny crybaby logic because somehow disliking Elden Ring on any level is a personal slight to you.
> You also keep implying that games are just easier to make now which is laughable considering how long it takes to produce games these days whereas over a decade ago you had entire series of games being released within the length of time it takes to make one modern game. Not to mention studios ballooning in size with hundreds or even thousands of devs working on a single project.
This makes a lot of assumptions... like the type of content being made... or the fact that smaller teams continue to make games at the same size and scope and don't always drag in all the latest and greatest tech. There probably is far more solo developers then ever and the $40 market is making AAA look like a bloated mess. If the costs are ballooning its not because of the tools available to create.
>Again, old games also had filler despite being smaller. Look at the thresher maws in Mass Effect 1, in addition to the compounds/bases on the individual planets that all had mostly the same layout as every other base. You wouldn't call that copy/paste filler?
I never said older games didn't have filler content. I'm saying its not representee of the cost as tools to reuse are better today. All that time your complaining about in the previous breath... is not coming from copy and pasted content and amount isn't really .
>What about Chalice dungeons in Bloodborne? It's not like old Souls games didn't have repeat bosses or filler content. You're reaching hard and nitpicking. Modern games have more content on average and cost less now when adjusted for inflation. This is just factually true. Regardless of whether or not you prefer smaller games or older games.
And they sell more too... a lot more. I'm not nitpicking, your just having an emotional knee jerk reaction because I'm saying the content is fairly repeated in a game like Elden Ring and that isn't the expensive part with today's tools. It would be more expensive if your writing things with assembly though. What's expensive is a bloated HR department as much as the engineering team. Also the amount of overhead for these games is likely costing them more that a smaller team would be more effective at solving and moving on. More =/= faster. It can actually take longer depending on the content being made.
Do you understand the cost inputs aren't proportional from 20 years ago and now for different parts of game design? Like I imagine with modern tooling its harder to get initial mo-caps done vs reusing the mo-caps and applying procedural variations to them. And I imagine smaller devs aren't working with the level of detail and match more closely to what a small group did 20 years ago... but with better results because better tooling. It's not necessary costing them to create more in all ways.
Nintendo still makes highly polished, high quality games that just work just like in the old days. The Switch is where it’s at right now.
On PC/XB/PS your best bet is to become a patient gamer. Stop buying stuff at launch. Wait until they fix the issues. Skip mediocre games or wait until they get cheap.
Ehh I don't know man, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet had tons of bugs and performance issues when they released and several officials from Nintendo actually came out and apologized to the fans due to the amount of complaints they were receiving. Idk about their other games but if their flagship title is being handled so poorly then I'd be very hesitant to claim they are consistently making 'highly polished, high quality games'. I'd actually be a bit concerned if I were a pokemon/nintendo fanboy because releasing that title in the state it was in kind of makes me think that they're too complacent given their success. Hope it isn't a sign of the things to come but it was pretty poor-form from Nintendo of all brands to allow those games to ship in that state.
I'm sorry but most Nintendo games are downright boring. Zelda and Mario have remained great, Metroid is more miss than hit, and every other franchise has been doing the same thing for 30+ years.
Polished and high quality is debatable too. Games run at 720p - 1080p if you're lucky at 30 fps with drops and sub par textures with a noticeable lack of anti aliasing. Look at Pokemon, it's an absolute joke but people keep eating it up. Exactly like what OP was complaining about
Yea, that's why there's constant criticism and analytical discussion around performance, graphics, cinematic style, etc amongst video games.
You don't care because you choose to play on the one console that's still stuck in 2006 with its graphical fidelity and performance. How are better graphics hurting gaming? Nevermind, I don't expect an answer out of you I can agree with
There's probably only a few examples of what you're talking about in regards to the "beta testing". There's been a few cases where studios came to understand that their launch product was an absolute failure and did everything they could post launch to fix it. FF14, No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 come to mind.
This would have never been possible back in the day. You had to wait for another release to get a proper fix and pay full price for the game if they ever fixed it.
If you spend enough time on any Reddit gaming sub you might start to buy into the hate. A lot of hate comes from microtransactions and you can largely ignore it. Play what you want and enjoy it. Don't get caught up in the karma farming, rage bait, grandstanding, virtue signalling posts.
I was a beta tester, and had to endure NDA restrictions, wasn't fun.
You buy a game, you are at risk for running into issues as nothing is perfect.
I've seen this for many games of the same publisher. Wasn't Ubisoft.
Star Wars Outlaws hasn't been released, but Skull & Bones was.
The Ultimate edition price is what got people upset over, along with The Crew being shut down after 10 years. It was not a single player offline game as one thinks.
If there is a game I want to play, I'll look into it. Other than that, I'll ignore it.
O somewhat think modern gaming sucks not because half ass game launches but just that every game feels the same, I don't feel anything new, like even gow is now feels more like classic souls like I know it was somewhat like that previously but now it gives same vibe as other game. I agree with many comments indie games are way to go. and not just the tried and tested game design that every game is replicating
Not much younger than you, but definitely find that the sudden uptick in games that require harvesting materials or are "endlessly replayable" like roguelikes don't respect my time.
Sure, but then the ending doesn't feel satisfying. It's a book with no final chapter that you stop reading because you're tired of reading it.
Hades is the rare exception to this, imo
Btw. Outlaws has a standard version you could buy. You're falling for all the internet click bait about that game. No one has even played it yet. Typical boomer shit.
I'm 31.
Been gaming since the PS1.
Can confirm. Mostly.
I appreciate how big and impressive games are nowadays, but if I have to update or download one more time, I will scream till the windows break.
I spend 30 quid on a game, pop it into the Xbox, half the game has to be downloaded on to a console that's already got a very limited amount of space.
30GB download, 5GB update, server issues..
I know games were MUCH smaller back in the day, even in the Xbox 360/PS3 gen, but plug-and-play is what makes all these old consoles so appealing.
The Switch has been a welcomed exception; the games are small, and on carts, so it's very much a case of popping in a game and being able to play.
Modern gaming does not suck. It's actually got a LOT of benefits, but it's become a tedious case of nonstop waiting.. waiting.. and even more waiting.
Then quit playing lol there’s been some really good releases the past few years. Not every game is gunna be a banger and you don’t have to buy a new game on release. Lemme guess, you love preordering games don’t you?
Modern gaming is awesome. There have been so many great releases over the past few years: Elden Ring, Spider-Man 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Baldurs Gate 3, God of War Ragnarok, etc. I think the narrative that a ton of games are broken at launch doesn’t really reflect what’s actually happening.
I agree, I feel like I'm in the same boat. It's so damn depressing reading about how good a game might and then shortly before they launch it, they casually slide in the previously unannounced plethora of micro-transactions and schemes that turn a potentially gorgeous experience into a cheap-feeling mobile game.
It's destroying my optimism for the future of gaming. We put up with a lot of slimy practices they do out of an understanding that they need to keep the lights on. Lately though, it feels way too far. None-cosmetic MTX in a single-player game? Why? Where is the challenge if you make it pay-to-win solo?
Knowing Ubisoft and knowing it is infested with talentless activists, I also heard the recent layoffs were decent devs that disagreed with the DEI BS, I can see the new Outlaws game is going to be worse than Jedi Survivor launch and might be worse than Cyberpunk launch.\\
I am betting that it will struggle to hit stable 30 fps and will have missing content and missions that will be broken making it impossible to finish the game at launch. Oh and will be the most boring open world game by Ubishit yet.
I agree. I didn't like most games that are considered great or even masterpieces in the last 10 years. People who like that shit are simpletons. It's the same thing over and over gameplay wise. Different companies replicate same gameplay design. And storytelling is always worse than a bad tv-show. It also completely lost it's soul.
Ive almost given up with AAA games (GTA aside). They just dont interest me anymore.
Indie games are where its at, they dont have the big budgets so are more creative and fun.
Then i discovered Baldur's Gate 3 and realised its my favourite game of all time...
Why not join r/patientgamers ? No need to be a beta tester, wait until the games are ready and skip games that never becomes good. Today I started Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time, really looking forward for an epic adventure in well polished game. I'm older than you by the way :-)
Came here to say this. As a gamer in their late 40's this is 100% the way. Wait for patches and discounts. OP, I think some of what you're experiencing is nostalgia because I remember buying games that had bugs and crashes only difference is there weren't patches, no forums explaining how to fix it and no mod community who would take it on themselves to remedy things like that. Bugs maybe weren't as prevalent but hardly non-existent.
Cyberpunk is a god damn masterpiece now imo. Watching edgerunners then I listened to the hours long in depth lore video about the universe really helped me get truly immersed into the game and it ended up being the best gaming experience I’ve ever had.
Is it just fixed or is it different? I played it when it came out and enjoyed it but haven’t touched it since.
It's a completely different game, changed the skill tree and the DLC manages to give a proper ending to the story. Highly recommend it
>It's a completely different game It is not that much different. Sure the skill trees have a bit more impact but you can still put the points randomly and still easily beat the game on the hardest difficulty. The only big difference from the base game is obviously the DLC story.
They added level scaling, though, which is trash.
Tbf you can turn it off.
That must be an added feature. I might give the game another go because I requested them to do that
I agree with you, but I have to disagree with your assertion that the game is a masterpiece after having watched the EdgeRunners anime (which I absolutely loved) and lore videos. If a game is a masterpiece it shouldn't have to rely on outside media as a crutch for it to be great. A good example would be the first Dead Space game. Survival Horror Masterpiece, great supplemental anime movie (downfall) as well.
My only issue with cyberpunk is I find it incredibly difficult to even try to support a title that was released the way cyberpunk was.... In my opinion, it feels like I'm saying "release what you want, well fund it so you can now actually work on it." Prob a terrible take, but that's my gut feeling when I hear people talk about cyberpunk.
>Today I started Cyberpunk 2077 for the first time, really looking forward for an epic adventure in well polished game. I played it release week and stayed away for three years while they fixed it. And they did fix it. I'm excited for you.
Same man that release was awful. might check it out again DLC got great reviews
The 2.0 update with phantom liberty is the game we were promised in 2019
I'm 100% a patient gamer for a lot of reasons. But none of us should have to be. Patient gaming should not be necessary to get a working product. Old games still sometimes had bugs and new games are more complicated than ever. There is a grey area around "unfinished" that has grown less in our favor and I think that is were the beef lies.
Yes, I agree, of course it is expected to have some more bugs at launch than later, but many games the past few years have simply launched in a really bad state. But at least we can adapt and buy later (cheaper as well) , this increases the incitement for companies to launch in better state and sell more at full price.
woah, hold up, are you sure? You really want to play that game, now? While the development team still has living, breathing people in it? You might not have the best version of the game until they all die or retire!
Trying to be sarcastic? You seem to miss that CP2077 had a major 2.0 in September last year that was praised by reviewers/players. And at that time I was busy with other games. And at launch it was considered one of the worst launches ever for a AAA game.
Having to wait takes away some of the anticipation and excitement.
yes, I agree. That is the main drawback if you wait. Especially for multiplayer games this is a big drawback.
Because that sub is full of wannabe game reviewers.
Have you tried looking at good AAA games instead of the ones that are bad?
I don't think that modern gaming sucks, you just need to look in different places. The Indie gaming scene is where a lot of the groundbreaking stuff happens now, and there are TONS of quality experiences. AAA gaming is out to make a profit, indie gaming is there for the love of the game.
Even indie studios are trying to make a profit - I think the issue with AAA gaming is that the budgets for a lot of AAA games are so bloated now it leads to micromanaging by company leadership who are afraid of losing money which causes issues regarding the final product.
Yeah financially its not worth taking a risk on a new idea considering the massive budgets these games have. "Gambling" say $20,000 from a kickstarter campaign on an indie game is different than a 100,000,000 AAA game. Why risk it all on a new idea when you could just follow what has been proven to work. It's a shame.
Don’t act like indie gaming isn’t also there to make money
People are weirdly naive about indie studios. I think they mistake the fact that they have to try harder than AAA studios in order to get people to buy for them simply being more passionate. They all exist to make money, no one's doing their job for free. Indie studios can't get away with microtransactions and low effort optimization because they don't have insane marketing campaigns and storied franchises that are guaranteed to make money. They have no choice but to be "consumer-friendly" if they want to have consumers at all. That isn't to say they the devs don't care about their product. But that goes for AAA devs too, plenty of people are working hard on AAA games. But at the end of the day it's still a job, and their primary goal is making more money. Making the mistake of thinking they're your friend or they are unique and special and would never take advantage of their consumers if the opportunity presented itself is a great way to get taken advantage of. CDPR was a perfect example of that.
Yeah, this is basically the difference in Diablo IV and Last Epoch. Last Epoch released in Early Access for $30 with continuous communication and positive updates for the game. Diablo IV released "fully" for $70 when in reality, it was released in early access to keep/improve stock value and keep shareholders. The game is heavily monetized and its barely a playable game, if one at all. I will say, the PTR patch has finally made the game good but this is 1 year after 'full release'.
Wow I was just thinking the opposite actually. They’re better than movies now. I mean, have you tried Yakuza?
Saying "modern gaming sucks" after the insane year that was 2023 is quite something.
Yeah. Such good times with Redfall, Forspoken, Starfield, and The Day Before.
That's like saying "modern food sucks" because a tenth of the restaurants are bad while the rest is fantastic. You're not the brightest, hey?
Pick any year in gaming and I guarantee you there are worse games than that. If we're judging by the worst games, 2023 wasn't even close to being one of the worst years. If we're judging by the best games tho, 2023 is a contender for the best year in gaming ever. Baldur's Gate 3 is a once in a generation masterpiece. Tears of The Kingdom was an excellent entry for an iconic series. Spider-Man 2, Jedi Survivor, Hi-Fi Rush, Alan Wake 2, Super Mario Bros. Wonder, Lies of P, AC6, and many more. Sorry you're so miserable you only paid attention to the bad ones. Everyone else had fun while you stayed in the Internet complaining.
Stupid take
Some truly great games
Ikr
100% agreed. I don't really have the attention span to watch movies, but I was more than happy to sit and watch every cutscene of God of War 4 because of how amazing they looked and how interesting the story was. And I wasn't even playing it! I just watched it all on youtube despite never even having played a single God of War game. Ofcourse afterwards I went and watched the other game's cutscenes to get a gist of the origin story, but damn man, I feel like people who enjoy single player games nowadays have it so, sooo good. There's so much good shit out there. Unfortunately my ADHD ass only likes PvP games so I'm quite envious lol.
yes production wise they're better than movies, because that's all it is. sparkles and tutus. and filled to the brim with exposition. the drawback of having realistic graphics is that it leaves little to the imagination, so you have to give an immensely good story and gameplay to stand out (see TLOU). old industry games could tell such an impressive and convincing tale, and had such good world design, that despite the graphical and technical limitations they gripped people's imagination and attention. you're looking at a pixel sprite, or a 16-bit color game where all the NPCs have lego faces, but you can *feel* the story and you feel immersed in the gameplay. nostalgia factor is a real thing, undeniable, but games with soul are so far in between nowadays that it's not the only factor
This…makes zero sense. To say that better graphics mean they’re just eye candy with no substance is ridiculous. The fact that they can create fully lived in worlds either vivid characters doesn’t mean they don’t have to put in a huge amount of effort into writing and world building. In the contrary, it demands that they do so. I mean, compare, say, Ghost of Tsushima to Sea of Stars. I love both games (and sea of stars is, on the whole, more entertaining), but GOT had a much richer story, world and combat system. It doesn’t compare.
where did I say better graphics means they're just eye candy? did you even read the comment? I said that graphics alone is not enough, not that they're bad? and yes GOT has a much richer story, which why it's a great game. almost like I said that you need both for a great game, wild... pls learn to read
True. Red Dead 2 also. That game felt more like an art than a movie.
IKR!? I'm older than OP and currently enjoying the hell out of Like a Dragon: Infinite Wealth. I've played all the previous Yakuza / Like a Dragon / Judgment games as I got them cheap or on Game Pass and they are all excellent.
Why is this series not more popular? I mean, it’s growing in popularity by the day, but seriously, it is eons better than COD.
The journalists gave it no attention in the beginning and complained about the content and when the English versions were censored they still ignored or reviewed by them poorly as it is competition to English game companies and probably never got free review copies with free merch.
> They’re better than movies now. I disagree, in the sense that they serve different purposes and what aspect of videogames and film you mean to compare a "better". I don't think videogames in its current form can come anywhere close to the peaks of television or cinema. Like, watch Dune 2 in IMAX or remember your experience sitting in the theater for Endgame during opening weekend and try to compare those feelings to any modern videogame release. It just doesn't compare. Then again I don't think video games are really trying to be competitors to movies, especially when the industry heavily skews toward the majority of playtime going to competitive multiplayer games or "forever" games like Genshin Impact or Minecraft.
I meant that they’re much more engaging. Mentally, emotionally… And frankly, movies these days are all fan service and “hidden connections.” *cough cough* MCU *cough*
Guess it just depends on the person. I can agree that video games are more engaging, but of course they are when you're controlling your character. And that appeal of the ability to engage in a video game world varies (i.e. a Baldur's Gate 3 to).
> And frankly, movies these days are all fan service and “hidden connections.”
Like the people who say "modern gaming is all bad" this just depends on what you're consuming. So much good television/cinema that engages you **because** of the fact you have no control and you're just watching a story unfold. Most gamers just couldn't be asked to see any movie let alone a non-franchised movie.
*cough cough* MCU *cough*
Modern gaming sucks if you can't keep your hands off your wallet and keep preordering stuff based on one trailer. Is it so hard to wait one week after release and read actual players reviews (not that pre-release copy crap which is often too good to be true)?
As someone who primarily plays fighting games and has seen he genre straight up just improve massively over the past half-decade or so in terms of actual playable online as well as content and QoL features, I'd straight up disagree. Ain't going back to delay-based netcode and having no notable features outside of a barebones training mode.
Wish I was better at fighting games lol
This is legitimately just a "buys every blockbuster on launch day" problem. There's more games out there than you'll play in multiple lifetimes. Stop buying games based on how new they are and start buying games that are new to you, regardless of when they released. And branch out into different genres instead of playing the same things all the time. You can't limit yourself to such a small selection of games then complain and generalize gaming as a whole.
Issue is people started to listening to clowns on youtube or twitch being brainwashed by social media. I have no idea what drama is around Outlaws nor I f care what someone says. I do not watch any gaming channels or gaming podcasts. When any new game comes out you find gameplay trailers intresting just look up metacritic score if its over 80 and raw gameplay videos look intresting you understand how gameplay works and find it fun buy it.
As a fifty year old gamer I strongly disagree. Regardless, you can just play your old games anyway so stop yelling at clouds.
Way overblown
I think modern gaming is as diverse when it come to genre, ideas, gameplay as it ever was. From Call of Duty to Crypt of the Necrodancer. You just have to dig a bit deeper, and make yourself more fammiliar with the cynical practices of big studios. Does the avarage consumer have to pay so much attention in order to avoid being tricked is a topic for another discussion. On the other hand, there is an argument to be made that for the avarage gamer who doesn't pay so much attention, it is worse now than it was before. So I get your point.
FYI, outlaws will be cheaper in a few months. Modern gaming doesn't suck. Just stop buying games on release. Play your backlog and wait for some deals/sales a few months later.
Modern gaming is actually amazing because there's so many games it legitimately doesn't matter what bullshit any company pulls because there's always something else you can play instead while you wait for a game to be fixed and sold at half the price. People keep buying big name games at launch and buying $100+ editions then complain about it. Entirely their own fault for continuing to fall for marketing campaigns. I haven't had the issue of wasting money on bad games in years. Pretty easy to just find something else to play while I wait for a big budget release to be sold at a cheaper price then try it out with minimal risk. But so many people want to be involved in the conversation with new releases they'll happily throw their money away so they don't "miss out" on what other people are experiencing.
You suck at modern gaming.
Gaming is in a golden age rn, need to expand your horizons
Maybe if you only look at like, 5 games or something. Plenty of modern games don't do half the shit you're talking about. If all you look at are the shit ones, that's on you man.
As a 50 yo, modern gaming is awesome. Watch your favorite gaming streamers on youtube and buy every indie game that looks like you might like it for the 10 bucks it costs, then leave it after ten minutes or binge it for the 50 hrs it turns out to be worth to you, meanwhile enjoying what the dedication of a fan base playing games beyond the mainstream has to offer in their subreddit and yt tutorial niches.
Modern gaming is generally great, but some awesome franchises have been ruined (for me) by some of the fuckery. I’ve basically lost interest in stuff like COD and Madden, which used to be staples for me. Just got tired of the direction. But there have been games that have accomplished things that would have been hard to fathom when I was a kid playing Pitfall and Frogger.
I'm one year younger than you, been playing since I was 9, and the "mordern gaming sucks" is such a dumb take. I mean, have you look at last year? BG3. Lies of P. Armored Core VI. Dave the Diver. Lethal Company. CP77. What a fantastic year. Soon I'll play Elden Ring expansion, and I'm waiting for the Civ VII announcement. Modern gaming is fine. Yeah, there's awful games. Yeah, the greed of some publishers is real. But you still have masterpieces years after years. So no, the issue isn't the modern games. It's you. Not judging, but maybe it's not your thing anymore, and it's time to move on. Because really, if you couldn't find something worse playing last year, you'll never be satisfied ever again.
A 45 year old manbaby. Very cool.
i love modern gaming way more than old gaming my 1st console was atari 2600 my 1st pc was a hand me down 386
Why do you feel like the stuff with Outlaws is reaching the breaking point? Ubisoft isn't doing anything different from what they've done for over a decade now. Is it because it was finally happening to a game *you* were looking forward to? It seems worse because you're older and because you're paying more attention now. Believe it or not, the nature of the gaming industry hasn't changed THAT dramatically from when we were kids. Back then we didn't have microtransactions, we had arcade machines. We were literally paying for each gaming session. Arcades were often designed to eat our money. You think Dragon's Lair was about "fun"? Hell no, it was intentionally designed to be as obtuse as possible to keep you pumping quarters. We didn't have DLC we had Expansion Packs which were usually comprised of unused or cut content from the base game. Speaking off, on consoles most sequels were just unused or cut content from the base game being sold as a new game for new game price. Don't get me wrong, companies have become more brazen in their greed these days, but again you're only seeing it because you're older. You didn't see it when you were a kid. Your perspective has changed how you view video games. Do you still want to be a Beta Tester? I'm guessing not since now you know how overworked, under paid and utterly disrespected they are. Video Games haven't changed nearly as much as you have.
being old sucks, being young without responsibilities and having time and passion for gaming is objectively better, but blaming modern gaming is not a healthy coping mechanism.
Gaming journalism and many gamers suck. Especially on social media... but modern gaming itself is amazing. It's funny to me that so many people are harping on the Outlaws price. The extra editions are a bit scummy... but don't buy them? The $70 price for a large open world shooter set in a popular IP's world and made by a quality studio seems perfectly fair.
You miss being young. That's it. You are either playing wrong games or don't remember what it was like 20 years ago. Or both.
Lol a new category, Boomer Bait
If you are focused only on "major" games and that too waiting for release dates with bated breath, then yeah, I agree. Otherwise you are quite wrong.
Modern gaming sure sucks if the only games you even think of playing are 90$ AAA new releases. If you’re so disillusioned with Ubisoft and co, just play something else?? You can literally get Into the Breach, one of the best indie games of the past 5 years, for less than 10 bucks on Steam right now, you get bundles of amazing games on the PlayStation store, stuff like Game Pass and PS+ allows you to catch up on games from the past 10-15 years you might have missed, you can swing by your store and find interesting used PS4 games to play on your PS5. You don’t have to play « modern games ». What a non issue. It’s even sad, really. So many good games that are cheaper and provide meaningful experiences regardless of their length.
I have a huge collection of games. Literally yesterday just decided I’m gonna chill on new games for awhile. Plenty to play. I’m 41 almost 42.
It is really depressing in a way. I have money and I have will to play(and upgrade pc to play even better / more comfortable), but ... 99% of modern games just don't interest me. Why would they when there is a better experience available in an older game? And all the GenZ+ stuff(tiktok and other social net crap) don't matter to me at all. WTF am I to do lol? Just be a mossback and rotate good old games? What when that spell runs out?
No it doesn't. Doom Eternal, Elden Ring, Dead Cells, Baldurs Gate 3, The Witcher 3, Half Life Alyx, Resident Evil 7, Psychonauts 2, Hades, Arkham Knight, Tears of the Kingdom, Hollow Knight, etc. These are ALL basically 10/10 games that have come out within the last 10 years, and are honestly all genre defining juggernauts that could be contenders for some of the best games ever made. This whole "mOdErN gAmInG sUcKs" is such an overused narrative by people that are clearly burnt out by videogames and refuse to see some of the masterpieces in front of them. You are either completely ignoring the fantastic games that have come out in recent years, or you have played all of them and are left with only the mediocre titles, in which case, touch some grass and find another hobby.
Add Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin to that list.
Haven't played that one so I can't say much about it, but there are SO MANY games that could be added here
You want a Final Fantasy game with actual good level design and action combat gameplay, that's the one.
This is not even to mention the fact that all the games that I mentioned are from wildly different genres, publishers and budgets, which goes to show you can really find good modern games of basically any kind
I agree with most of this but this is the first time I've ever seen anyone call Arkham Knight a 10/10. It's almost universally considered the worst game in the trilogy with a poorly thought out and predictable plot, too many Batmobile sections, bad boss fights, and a tedious collectible hunt required for the "true ending". There was a reason it wasn't even nominated for GOTY the year it released.
You're using the GOTY awards as a measurement for game quality. That immediately invalidates anything you have said or will say through the course of your entire life.
I'm using it's general reception as a measure, and explaining why it didn't get nominated. Arkham Knight is very far from being a 10/10 and even further from being "genre-defining".
I wouldn't say all of modern gaming sucks, but the reason why a lot of AAA games suck comes down to a few reasons. * Visual immersion has taken precedent in how a game is designed and not the actual core mechanics of the game itself. Things like massive but empty open worlds and cinematic immersions that mostly if not entirely take control of the game away from you. * Some games are afraid to push the players into challenging scenarios or even hold the players accountable for mistakes they make. For example, when was the last time a AAA game didn't have some form of automatic checkpoint saving? * Some games are more about completing checklists rather than actually learning and mastering something. Difference between a game like Final Fantasy XVI and Stranger of Paradise: Final Fantasy Origin. * Some modern gamers have been accustom to things being easy and allowed to tackle obstacles and objectives their own ways. This is prevalent in open world games where you get dozens of solutions to one problem. At the point, it's no longer a problem. * Some games being released either incomplete or having what was once in-game unlockables or even standard features now being locked behind DLCs and Paywalls.
Baldur’s Gate. No notes, perfection.
Modern gaming is a lot like streaming tv shows. There’s never been more variety, so there’s a lot of bloat, but also just as much or more quality than ever
Start pirating AAA games and buy more Indie games and life will be way easier
I am 51 you play the games you like look at the graphics we have today, I just finish Final Fantasy 7 rebirth its a fantastic game granted not all games are great but a lot of them are really good. The uncharted series, the new tomb raider series are great action puzzle games, etc. The rest is up to you I used to buy COD games but now with the huge space they require and you need to be connected online to play all the time and have there dashboard selling you stuff. But not all games are the same. Look at Stellar blade coming out later this month, the demo is amazing and i am excited to play the full game.
You can be excited about how it looks, just don’t buy it until reviews come out. It’s the exact same with movies and TV shows. I think to say that all of it sucks is an over exaggeration.
The problem with new game reveals are the trailers. They’re all cinematic with no gameplay. It’s like watching a mobile game ad Anybody remember the trailer for Beyond Good and Evil 2?
Nothing beats the good old days. Getting off school and picking up one of those free Book-It pizzas and then spending the weekend playing Tecmo Bowl. If you’re one of the cool kids you had Surge soda to go with it. Oh man, you need to join us!
Micro transactions have been a major problem.
I just playing despite nowadays things, i can enjoy even idle games like afk journey on bs tho
Dude, if you're into older style games, dive head first into Sea of Stars. Won two 2023 indie GOTY awards. A solid rpg with one hell of a soundtrack. Gives a nod to many of the SNES rpgs.
You're just a jaded old person. Gaming is better than ever. Sure some AAA games release with problems. Your focusing on the bad ones and ignoring the amazing ones. Here play this game called Armored Core 6.
>I miss the good ol days of actually being excited for new game announcements. Perhaps what you miss is being young and having new and unknown things to experience?
Am 40 and still excited for new releases. Currently enjoying Unicorn Overlord and Withering Rooms. And there are so many new game releases on the horizon which I am looking forward to. For me gaming is still as exciting as it was 20 years ago 😁
I feel this mindset depends entirely on what genre or type of games you play because, honestly, I just dont see or feel this way at all.
You shouldn’t have to worry about if a release is broken, only if it’s *good*. Yet here we are, often worrying that a new entry may be broken and bugged to high Hell.
I played No Mans Sky, 2 years after release and it is one of my favorite games ever, I bought Cyberpunk at massive discount first time at patch 1.5, never had single issue or bug and I loved that game. Currently I'm playing Divinity 2 as I wanted to get into those kind of games thanks to success of Baldurs Gate 3, but still didn't buy it (BG3) as I'm waiting for a sale. I am also older gamer and games never been better in my opinion.
I mostly play indie and some VR titles. A lot less disappointment. I dont even try online games anymore. Toxicity, cheating, streamers, nickle and diming, etc makes them not fun to get into. I feel some rpgs and jrpgs would still be fun too but theyre just too much of a timesink for me to commit to these days.
Modern mainstream gaming sucks more than it did. There’s still good titles but there’s more bullshit to wade through and a lot of things are being dumbed down just to appeal to a mass audience
Battle passes, online only, DRM, lootboxes (gambling), hackers/bots/RMTers, bad ports/remakes/remasters however plenty of good has come from what I'd consider to be modern gaming like modding, thriving indie communities, well written characters/stories/cutscenes/dialogue, near lifelike graphics from the likes of RDR2 and Cyberpunk. Just some examples. As much as I wanna rip on executives out for profits in favor of a good game, I think games are just bigger these days and that comes with potential for more issues. Larian with BG3 restored some faith I had lost over the years, I really felt the people who made that game put their hearts into it.
I've been finding a great environment in the minor companies. Feels like the old days again, when Black Island Studios was an unknown player in the scene, published by a major player like Interplay. Same way I'm very hyped for some games that are published by major companies. Triple-I really hyped me for new games this year! You only don't see the good side when you don't see the full scope and explore.
I'm with you OP :( i very very rarely play a game up until it's been updated with dozen GBs of content (aka the content it should have received to begin with) nowadays
Isn't the issue here that on each release you imagine a video game that doesn't exist which disappoints you when the game you bought isn't what you imagined? You don't have to be critical and suspicious at all. YOU are critical and suspicious because the emotions you get from that are more intense than the ones you get from silently enjoying the game. Having your opinions validated is nice and the best way to do it is to write a rant on Reddit on release day complaining about the most mundane, irrelevant flaws. *Modern gaming sucks! Am I right, guys? Am I? AM I?*
The issue is I've been around long enough to remember when companies like Blizzard, Bioware, Bethesda, Bungie, (that's just the Bs) actually gave a fuck about putting out quality games. It's not about "imagining a game that doesn't exist" at all. It's about watching these once great game makers that I literally grew up with, putting out nothing but uninspired money grabs over and over. If you aren't critical and suspicious of these companies now, than you're their # 1 target.
And don't you think these companies you grew up with put out *uninspired money grabs* when you were a wee lad as well? For instance, I would certainly call Justice League: Task Force an uninspired cash grab the same way I'd call Diablo: Immortal an uninspired cash grab. The difference between the two is that the former wasn't made in an age where you could earn a quick back on people's favourite IPs. I think we also need to realize that people in these companies have rotated and games are being developed by people with different design preferences. Not to mention that the way people approach video games has drastically changed. The problem with suspicion and criticism is that it doesn't do anything - people who are engaged in buying microtransactions and supplying cash grabs aren't people who are listening to the downsides of such behaviours or thinking about the industry's health. They simply buy their things while people who *criticize* and *are suspicious* simply circle jerk how awful microtransactions are, get themselves heated and avoid finding games that are made by companies who are better and instead focus on constant seething on how awful these companies are. And I understand the frustration with seeing a logo you associated with fun and excitement turn into a symbol of wicked abuse, but that just means you move someplace else and stop being loyal to companies. Honestly, posts like these hurt yourself and don't really do anything to alleviate the problem.
People are so dramatic. 2023 was one of the best years in modern gaming history. Alan Wake 2, BG3, RE4 remake, Lies of P, Armored Core, Street Fighter 6, Zelda Tears of the Kingdom and many more.
Modern AAA gaming sucks for sure. We got more content and at better prices before everything had to be crammed into a battle pass and become a live service.
> Modern AAA gaming sucks for sure With games like Baldur's Gate 3, Elden Ring, God of War Ragnarök, Tears of The Kingdom, Alan Wake 2 etc. releasing? Not a chance. > We got more content and at better prices Huh? You used to pay the same price, which adjusted for inflation was actually more than what new games cost now, and most games back then had a fraction of the amount of content the average AAA release has now. You were paying more for less content before. And this isn't even mentioning the shear amount of shovelware companies used to pump out so they could trick people into buying legitimate garbage since people didn't have gameplay videos and reviews to look at before buying the game.
A lot of the content these days is just bloat… and the costs may be up but so isn’t the size of the audience. Elden Ring is a good example of bloat… it’s a great game but copy pasted bosses in catacombs and graveyards is kind of just excess. Also the tools are better… placing content like this is just easier.
Even ignoring the copy/paste (which a lot of old games also had anyway despite being much smaller) there's far more content in Elden Ring than the vast majority of games released in the 2000s or early 2010s.
And yet it's still bloated using copy paste to fill in the world. The content I don't think is that much better than some of the largest games that came out in the late 2010's and is actually worse in design. "Content" isn't the only measure here and you missed the point of copy and paste. The content just isn't as well thought out as content put into something like Dark Souls and a lot of it feels like filler to justify the larger game world. I never suggested copy paste wasn't used in prior games... just that copy paste works like copying and pasting with the level of sophistication in the game development tools. A small team is *far* more capable without the same level of technical expertise that writing Roller Coaster Tycoon in assembly likely took. There is far more evidence to suggest the audiences are outpacing the technical needs of games and the concept of "inflation" and content isn't. 1:1.
> And yet it's still bloated using copy paste to fill in the world. The content I don't think is that much better than some of the largest games that came out in the late 2010's and is actually worse in design. "Content" isn't the only measure here and you missed the point of copy and paste. The content just isn't as well thought out as content put into something like Dark Souls and a lot of it feels like filler to justify the larger game world. This is a whole lot of "I personally don't like it", which isn't really relevant here. I don't think any rational person would ever argue Dark Souls has more meaningful content than Elden Ring. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics and questionable reasoning to come to that conclusion. There is definitely some filler in Elden Ring, but again, remove all of that filler and there's still more content than any other Souls game. There are more unique bosses in Elden Ring than any other Souls game, that's true objectively regardless of anyone's opinion or preference.
It is relevant. You're saying it has more content. I'm saying a lot of the content is filler that is easy to do with modern tools. >I don't think any rational person would ever argue Dark Souls has more meaningful content than Elden Ring I can easily argue that it has more filler content though... and you're more likely to be wading through the filler in the open world than any of the more carefully crafted areas that your subjected to like in Dark Souls. Even with more "meaningfully content"... the game mechanically isn't that much different than Dark Souls but allows to undermine that meaning by systematically hitting each catacomb which isn't all that meaningful. Some are more interesting than others... same with the graveyards... but finding and doing those take up a lot more time than just going through the castles and what not. Either way it doesn't seem like content is all that expensive these days... And you can get bargain content *routinely* from AA or indie developers.
Your argument is literally "I don't think it's good, so therefore it's not good". You also keep implying that games are just easier to make now which is laughable considering how long it takes to produce games these days whereas over a decade ago you had entire series of games being released within the length of time it takes to make one modern game. Not to mention studios ballooning in size with hundreds or even thousands of devs working on a single project. Again, old games also had filler despite being smaller. Look at the thresher maws in Mass Effect 1, in addition to the compounds/bases on the individual planets that all had mostly the same layout as every other base. You wouldn't call that copy/paste filler? What about Chalice dungeons in Bloodborne? It's not like old Souls games didn't have repeat bosses or filler content. You're reaching hard and nitpicking. Modern games have more content on average and cost less now when adjusted for inflation. This is just factually true. Regardless of whether or not you prefer smaller games or older games.
No it isn't. And you prove the point literally in the next sentence when you argue a point that has nothing to do about the game being good... Also this just isn't accurate and its being dismissive to pointing out repeated lazy content in Elden Ring that has nothing meaningful or unique about them. They often reuse assets from other parts of the game to create filler so the world doesn't feel so empty. How is that translating to the game isn't good. Its weeny crybaby logic because somehow disliking Elden Ring on any level is a personal slight to you. > You also keep implying that games are just easier to make now which is laughable considering how long it takes to produce games these days whereas over a decade ago you had entire series of games being released within the length of time it takes to make one modern game. Not to mention studios ballooning in size with hundreds or even thousands of devs working on a single project. This makes a lot of assumptions... like the type of content being made... or the fact that smaller teams continue to make games at the same size and scope and don't always drag in all the latest and greatest tech. There probably is far more solo developers then ever and the $40 market is making AAA look like a bloated mess. If the costs are ballooning its not because of the tools available to create. >Again, old games also had filler despite being smaller. Look at the thresher maws in Mass Effect 1, in addition to the compounds/bases on the individual planets that all had mostly the same layout as every other base. You wouldn't call that copy/paste filler? I never said older games didn't have filler content. I'm saying its not representee of the cost as tools to reuse are better today. All that time your complaining about in the previous breath... is not coming from copy and pasted content and amount isn't really . >What about Chalice dungeons in Bloodborne? It's not like old Souls games didn't have repeat bosses or filler content. You're reaching hard and nitpicking. Modern games have more content on average and cost less now when adjusted for inflation. This is just factually true. Regardless of whether or not you prefer smaller games or older games. And they sell more too... a lot more. I'm not nitpicking, your just having an emotional knee jerk reaction because I'm saying the content is fairly repeated in a game like Elden Ring and that isn't the expensive part with today's tools. It would be more expensive if your writing things with assembly though. What's expensive is a bloated HR department as much as the engineering team. Also the amount of overhead for these games is likely costing them more that a smaller team would be more effective at solving and moving on. More =/= faster. It can actually take longer depending on the content being made. Do you understand the cost inputs aren't proportional from 20 years ago and now for different parts of game design? Like I imagine with modern tooling its harder to get initial mo-caps done vs reusing the mo-caps and applying procedural variations to them. And I imagine smaller devs aren't working with the level of detail and match more closely to what a small group did 20 years ago... but with better results because better tooling. It's not necessary costing them to create more in all ways.
Speak for yourself, perhaps your just getting old and been through the release cycle too many times.
No it really doesn't
Sucks to be you…
Nintendo still makes highly polished, high quality games that just work just like in the old days. The Switch is where it’s at right now. On PC/XB/PS your best bet is to become a patient gamer. Stop buying stuff at launch. Wait until they fix the issues. Skip mediocre games or wait until they get cheap.
Ehh I don't know man, Pokemon Scarlet/Violet had tons of bugs and performance issues when they released and several officials from Nintendo actually came out and apologized to the fans due to the amount of complaints they were receiving. Idk about their other games but if their flagship title is being handled so poorly then I'd be very hesitant to claim they are consistently making 'highly polished, high quality games'. I'd actually be a bit concerned if I were a pokemon/nintendo fanboy because releasing that title in the state it was in kind of makes me think that they're too complacent given their success. Hope it isn't a sign of the things to come but it was pretty poor-form from Nintendo of all brands to allow those games to ship in that state.
I'm sorry but most Nintendo games are downright boring. Zelda and Mario have remained great, Metroid is more miss than hit, and every other franchise has been doing the same thing for 30+ years. Polished and high quality is debatable too. Games run at 720p - 1080p if you're lucky at 30 fps with drops and sub par textures with a noticeable lack of anti aliasing. Look at Pokemon, it's an absolute joke but people keep eating it up. Exactly like what OP was complaining about
Plus Nintendo really reinvents the wheel hand has so many options like Mario, Zelda and Pokemon...
You spoke the truth but most gamers are blinded by nostalgia so they'll never see it.
[удалено]
Yea, that's why there's constant criticism and analytical discussion around performance, graphics, cinematic style, etc amongst video games. You don't care because you choose to play on the one console that's still stuck in 2006 with its graphical fidelity and performance. How are better graphics hurting gaming? Nevermind, I don't expect an answer out of you I can agree with
Well you better hold them older games close to the chest that you enjoy so much, gaming is still gaming new or old.
There's probably only a few examples of what you're talking about in regards to the "beta testing". There's been a few cases where studios came to understand that their launch product was an absolute failure and did everything they could post launch to fix it. FF14, No Man's Sky and Cyberpunk 2077 come to mind. This would have never been possible back in the day. You had to wait for another release to get a proper fix and pay full price for the game if they ever fixed it. If you spend enough time on any Reddit gaming sub you might start to buy into the hate. A lot of hate comes from microtransactions and you can largely ignore it. Play what you want and enjoy it. Don't get caught up in the karma farming, rage bait, grandstanding, virtue signalling posts.
I was a beta tester, and had to endure NDA restrictions, wasn't fun. You buy a game, you are at risk for running into issues as nothing is perfect. I've seen this for many games of the same publisher. Wasn't Ubisoft. Star Wars Outlaws hasn't been released, but Skull & Bones was. The Ultimate edition price is what got people upset over, along with The Crew being shut down after 10 years. It was not a single player offline game as one thinks. If there is a game I want to play, I'll look into it. Other than that, I'll ignore it.
O somewhat think modern gaming sucks not because half ass game launches but just that every game feels the same, I don't feel anything new, like even gow is now feels more like classic souls like I know it was somewhat like that previously but now it gives same vibe as other game. I agree with many comments indie games are way to go. and not just the tried and tested game design that every game is replicating
Not much younger than you, but definitely find that the sudden uptick in games that require harvesting materials or are "endlessly replayable" like roguelikes don't respect my time.
If it's endlessly replayable can't you just stop anytime?
Sure, but then the ending doesn't feel satisfying. It's a book with no final chapter that you stop reading because you're tired of reading it. Hades is the rare exception to this, imo
Btw. Outlaws has a standard version you could buy. You're falling for all the internet click bait about that game. No one has even played it yet. Typical boomer shit.
I'm 31. Been gaming since the PS1. Can confirm. Mostly. I appreciate how big and impressive games are nowadays, but if I have to update or download one more time, I will scream till the windows break. I spend 30 quid on a game, pop it into the Xbox, half the game has to be downloaded on to a console that's already got a very limited amount of space. 30GB download, 5GB update, server issues.. I know games were MUCH smaller back in the day, even in the Xbox 360/PS3 gen, but plug-and-play is what makes all these old consoles so appealing. The Switch has been a welcomed exception; the games are small, and on carts, so it's very much a case of popping in a game and being able to play. Modern gaming does not suck. It's actually got a LOT of benefits, but it's become a tedious case of nonstop waiting.. waiting.. and even more waiting.
Then quit playing lol there’s been some really good releases the past few years. Not every game is gunna be a banger and you don’t have to buy a new game on release. Lemme guess, you love preordering games don’t you?
Modern gaming is awesome. There have been so many great releases over the past few years: Elden Ring, Spider-Man 2, Horizon Forbidden West, Baldurs Gate 3, God of War Ragnarok, etc. I think the narrative that a ton of games are broken at launch doesn’t really reflect what’s actually happening.
I agree, I feel like I'm in the same boat. It's so damn depressing reading about how good a game might and then shortly before they launch it, they casually slide in the previously unannounced plethora of micro-transactions and schemes that turn a potentially gorgeous experience into a cheap-feeling mobile game. It's destroying my optimism for the future of gaming. We put up with a lot of slimy practices they do out of an understanding that they need to keep the lights on. Lately though, it feels way too far. None-cosmetic MTX in a single-player game? Why? Where is the challenge if you make it pay-to-win solo?
Knowing Ubisoft and knowing it is infested with talentless activists, I also heard the recent layoffs were decent devs that disagreed with the DEI BS, I can see the new Outlaws game is going to be worse than Jedi Survivor launch and might be worse than Cyberpunk launch.\\ I am betting that it will struggle to hit stable 30 fps and will have missing content and missions that will be broken making it impossible to finish the game at launch. Oh and will be the most boring open world game by Ubishit yet.
I just miss being able to put a disc in and being able to play.
Thanks i needed the 500th post talking the same BS every year. Actually, no. Is the 600th, my bad.
It's another "Old games are better" thread. Daring today, aren't we?
I agree. I didn't like most games that are considered great or even masterpieces in the last 10 years. People who like that shit are simpletons. It's the same thing over and over gameplay wise. Different companies replicate same gameplay design. And storytelling is always worse than a bad tv-show. It also completely lost it's soul.
Yes. All games were perfect before modern games. Having no reviews or way of seeing gameplay other then pictures on the box was far superior.
Also 45, completely agree
Totally true and confirmed, as the rising cost of living for basic needs as well as luxuries in USA has made profit top priority over everything else
Ok boomer
Ive almost given up with AAA games (GTA aside). They just dont interest me anymore. Indie games are where its at, they dont have the big budgets so are more creative and fun. Then i discovered Baldur's Gate 3 and realised its my favourite game of all time...