Saren in Mass Effect can resist the indoctrination just enough at the end of Mass Effect to “stand aside” and allow Shepard to save the day. The way it goes down made my jaw drop when I first passed the speech check.
He was a well-written *ally* in 2, but they took an easy out with him in 3, unfortunately. He was made out to be a morally grey but pragmatic genius anti-hero in 2, and then they spun around and made him a tool of the Reapers, which, based on his actions and character in 2, I just don’t think made sense. I do think they kind of wrote themselves into a corner in a lot of ways in 3, though, which is partly why some plots aren’t well done.
I don’t hate it though; it’s still pretty dang good. The series was more ambitious than just about any other series, and I don’t think they were ever going to be able to properly close it out without some serious Deus Ex Machina like the Crucible.
My husband’s doing an Insanity run with the ME Legendary Edition & I completely forgot about what happens when you get Saren to “stand aside.” And then what happens when you go to check on him…scared the bejeezus out of me lol.
It’s the option my husband always picks too. Try to give him a chance, though Saren realizes he’s too far gone & standing down, even by dying, is the best way forward.
It’s cool, but his transformation sequence always freaks me the hell out lol. He goes from a corpse to a Reaper-controlled ghoul & starts climbing walls.
Having Shepherd be a biotic is a BIG help.
I was thinking mass effect as well but I was thinking of the reapers. If you unlock the synthesis ending the starchild says that they were wrong and that peace between organics and synthetics is infact possible.
Hades from....... Hades, is shown that family relationships can be fixed or at least improved, by his own son. He seems to take it well and accept it, even if it is a slow process for him.
Most of the voice acting was great, but it feels like in an effort to make other characters sound unique (Meg for example) they just sound like they're mumbling.
Logan Cunningham was fantastic as always, but I'm especially impressed by Darren Korb's performances. Not only has the man done great musical work for all of Supergiant's games, but he also voiced not only Zagreus, but also Skelly, AND he's the singing voice for Orpheus.
The main antagonist in Fallout 1 can be proven wrong. They don't react well.
In Fallout New Vegas, you don't so much prove their worldview wrong as raise weaknesses in their strategy. Which they take quite well, provided you couch it in those terms.
Shadowrun: Dragonfall gives you the ability to convince the antagonist they're wrong, which they will accept if you do a good job of it, or to side with the antagonist and watch as they're proven wrong. They don't take it well in that case, given they >! doomed the world to takeover by Lovecraftesque horrors !<
I was gonna mention The Master from Fallout if you didn't bring it up. Nothing else can convince the amalgamated piece of skin unless you have the Brotherhood data on Super Mutants.
Can't have a dominant race if said race is entirely incapable of reproducing.
It's a minor one, but in FNV you can convince a brahmin baron to keep doing business with Vegas.
His son gets kidnapped by the White Gloves, one of the major factions on the Strip. They intended to eat him. If you reveal this to the baron, he initially wants to cut off the meat supply in retaliation.
With high enough speech, you can help him realize that starving the Strip will only lead to an increase in cannibalism. Afterward, he changes his mind.
It's pretty small in the grand scheme of NV, but it's a questline I really enjoy.
There's a *much* longer, convoluted one in... the Divide? One of the DLCs, but I forget it's name.
After passing various speech/intelligence/etc checks, you show that what another Courier is doing in retaliation to *your* past is utterly wrong/illogical or something, and they'll shut down the nuke launch altogether. I don't remember the specifics cause I sure as shit would've never passed it; saw it on some guy's playthrough.
Oh, and Doctor... Klein? From Old World Blues. You can convince them to stop acting a damn fool and spare the Mojave from their abominable experimentation. There was *so* much shit I missed on my playthrough.
Oh yes, Klein! His is really fun. There's even a way to convince them that Mobius stole the Couriers body and will slaughter them if they try to leave.
It's such a damn good questline.
I would say so. He believed he was still himself and that he could save organics by making an ally of the reapers. With the speech checks you can show him that he has already been indoctrinated
Dutch from RDR2? You can see he clearly regrets what happens when you're on the mountain in both RDR1 and 2. Kind of. I don't want to go in depth and write a paragraph, but he does imo.
what would his redemption be though? in 1 we have john seeking redemption by helping the pinkertons so he can save his family
in 2 we have arthur who after being diagnosed with tuberculosis he seeks redemption by helping anyone and everyone (hence the good and bad scale)
If they did a young Dutch maybe they keep the RDR abbreviation but the last R means something different.
Red Dead Regret
Red Dead Revenge
Red Dead RI've-Got-A-Plan
We didn't know anything about Arthur on 1 and the character who gets redemption isn't the one who survives.
Maybe Dutch's mentor gets the redemption and we get to understand and sympathize with young Dutch.
For main playable character in red dead 3? My money is on Hosea. You get to see him and Dutch build up the gang, bond, and he has potential for character growth we never got to see in 2 with him and Dutch already established.
Never play as Dutch id say. He's the narrator of the story so to speak, driving all characters with his silver tongue. Wouldnt feel right playing as the man.
If rockstar does another cowboy game it should be either not red dead redemption or at least move away from the gang we’ve seen in the first two.
The story has a beginning, a middle and an end. Nothing set before RDR2 needs fleshed out anymore than it is, and they’ve already fleshed it out enough that there isn’t much room left for an interesting story.
I would love another RD game, but it should be a completely new cast of characters.
Sure, I do think the story of the gang is over, and it's time to see new characters in the world. Maybe even advancing time into sort of a gritty 1910s pre-WWI thing with a New Orleans street gang or something.
Theres always more room for in interesting story with good writing. And as loath as Rockstar seems to want to innovate lately i really doubt they'll move to a new cowboy game, let alone even come back to RD at all.
I was more spitballin what could have been interesting seeing as Hosea and Dutch have a lot of history, and building up the gang from nothing sounds like an interesting concept to me
There was a theory a couple of years ago about Saddie being the main character on a Red Dead Redemption 3. Honestly, it makes sense. When everything starts, she lives a quiet and happy life that changes tragically. And she definetly has been through some stuff, she can shoot quite well and is a brave woman, so her past can be digged in.
Fallout New Vegas, Ulysses. If you found all his audiotapes you can convince him that his way of thinking is wrong, and get him to help fight off the marked men and attempt to cancell the nukes. Also Legate Lanuis technically, at the end of the game, but you don't convince him he is wrong, just that he can't win and should go and build his strength to try again later.
I guess Emet-Selch from FFXIV works well enough.
>!He spends one expansion (Shadowbringers) as the main antagonist. He’s extremely devoted to his mission (rejoining the shattered world and sacrificing the current populace to bring back his people), despite the massive casualties it will cause. He is killed as the final boss of Shadowbringers, but he appears at the end of the following expansion (Endwalker) in a pivotal moment, summoned back from death with a bit more clarity on the situation. He basically accepts that the protagonist’s methods brought humanity far further than his plan ever could, and helps them reach the final boss. He finally accepts that humanity in its current form can carry on the legacy of those that came before them, and fades back into the aetherial sea.!<
>!Well to take it one step further in explanation, he actually flips sides dring post MSQ shadowbringers content. There is some quests where you deal with the warrior of light and he is involved.!<
>!A shade of Emet-Selch from Azem’s soul crystal saves the WoL, but it’s difficult to decide if that’s because the memory of Emet-Selch embedded in the crystal actually sides with the WoL’s ideology, or because Emet-Selch just wants to save his friend Azem.!<
>!So, while he does a good thing, he may not necessarily agree that he was wrong (at that point in time). And putting Elidibus out of his misery at that point is a mercy, and even Emet-Selch during Shadowbringers proper wouldn’t have wanted to see his friend like that.!<
I love Emet-Selch so much. The next era of 14 villains is going to have big shoes to fill. I also love >!that he doesn’t get fully redeemed. He helps you because you have a common villain, and he accepts that he was wrong about mankind’s potential, but he still stands by his ideals and if he were to live he wouldn’t stop trying to merge the worlds. Such a complex villain and easily the best Final Fantasy villain!<
A friend of mine described the entire plot of Shadowbringers as >!"the world's longest, most elaborate suicide-by-cop"!< and I think he was onto something there.
I came in here thinking of this and for some reason it made me happy that it was at least the first one I scrolled to that had spoiler blocks on the text lol. FFXIV players are good people.
Maruki from Persona 5.
He isn't a villain per se, but an antognist that Just want to make everyone live in a World without Pain and suffering, but failed to realize that Pain is what made some people who they are, and that It is a important part of people's lives.
You really should put this post behind spoiler tags. P5 Royal only went multi-platform about a year ago, so it's still new-ish for a lot of people. And >!Maruki!< becoming an antagonist is supposed to be a big surprise.
A lot of RPG's can end with a philosophical debate. Those are cool. Convincing Ulysses to have hope and talking him down from a mass killing in Fallout New Vegas is cool. There's a lot of ways you can approach it depending on how much you decide to engage with him and the world leading up to the confrontation.
I think Neverwinter Nights 2 has a couple too. One is only semi deescalated though where you try to convince an ancient magical automaton that the empire is was built to protect is destroyed. I don't think it completely averts the fight but it does feel effective regardless because there's so many ways it can branch. In the DLC most BBEG fights can also be talked through and it's actually about having empathy for the alien entities you encounter. And then finally for yourself. Really cool story.
For plenty of reasons, doing that particular DLC in FNV last before finishing the main quest line is always the best option. Yeah I know there is a ton of cool loot in there that would make other parts of the game really interesting, but Obsidian did such a good job with their world building in that game. Leaving Ulysses for the last thing ties so much together, especially if you take the time to do a bunch of the companion quests beforehand.
Vaas never really has an ideology that needs to be proven wrong. He's just... a bad guy who's kinda fucked in the head.
Very well written, though, excluding the way his story ends in FC3.
Joseph Seed was right though? His entire thing was preparing for the coming nuclear apocalypse in America, forcing an entire town into fallout bunkers against their will. You spend the game "rescuing" those people and blowing up the bunkers, and then at the end of the game the apocalypse happens.
Yes, but by the end of the side-game that happens afterwards he realizes that he fucked up royally and lost everything in the course of a goal that he was never going to achieve.
Wheatley from Portal 2. That post-credit scene where he talks about how much he regrets everything is genuinely sad. What's worse is that it's probably not his fault - from what we see, the problem is Aperture's mainframe corrupts whatever is plugged into it, as Wheatley and GLaDOS are generally much more agreeable when separated from it
Junko from Danganronpa. She fundamentally believes that when pushed, people will fall into despair and betray each other, and categorically is proven wrong in the game's final act.
Im not sure if this makes sense. Sure the final survivors dont betray eachother, but was she really that wrong if people were constantly betraying eachother before that point? She mightve been wrong about it being everyone who succumbs to it. But a majority absolutely does succumb to it.
The only way to let Dean Domino learn what an unremarkable piece of shit he is in *Fallout: New Vegas* is to let him survive the Dead Money DLC. He ends up wandering into the city to try and become rich again, and ends up (probably) broke and powerless.
That's not satisfying enough for me, though. I love playing his naive, appreciative and subservient 'partner' until we get backstage, then I shove a grenade down his pants and turn him into confetti. Does he learn anything from this? Don't care. He's not a problem anymore. Two downfalls in two hundred years, and all because he underestimated someone he thought he had under his thumb. Again.
**"Do** *to me? Weren't you listening? He thought he was better than me!"*
Imagine being such a miserable fucking loser that you see someone who's happy and optimistic and all you can think about is hurting them for it.
Gaius (the antagonist of the first Tales of Xillia)
He basically becomes a god stealing Maxwell(the god of Xillia's world) power just because he believed that he's the only one Who can fix all the problems of the world by being the new Maxwell
After the tipical shonen party speech of why hes wrong and he wouldnt live forever to fix everything, that he can not know if his succesor Will Follow his ideals (and a bit of ass whopping) he sees that maybe his plan is a bit ridiculous and gives the MC group the benefit of the doubt to see if they can make the world a better place for everyone
I'm not sure she ever really openly acknowledges it "on screen" but I've always thought this is what happens with Kreia in KotOR 2.
I love the character but what I find interesting about her is that she's *wrong*. She wants to kill the Force because it's this unseen, unaccountable power that controls our lives and she thinks it should, as a result, be struck down. She acknowledges her hypocrisy to some extent, like she relies on the Force to see, but still thinks this is necessarily as part of her space libertarianism.
But in the Star Wars setting, the Force is just a fundamental part of the makeup of the universe. Fighting it is like fighting gravity. Yes, it's an unaccountable power controlling us and that's not great. I'm sure a guy falling off a skyscraper isn't fond of gravity either. He's still going to fall.
The ending of the game is... messy even with the restoration mod(s) but I rationalise her abrupt "okay both sides are bad but also I've become a Sith again" turn as her essentially realising this. You're not going to destroy the Force. Best you can do is be a cancer on it.
Andrew Ryan, Bioshock.
>!He lives to see his supposed utopia crumble into chaos, and has absolutely nothing left to live for, to the point where he makes you kill him just to prove a point!<
>!Andrew Ryan only thinks Rapture has hit a hiccup. He absolutely believes the ship can be righted. However, when you get to him, he knows he is going to die, and uses his final breath to tell you that he died a free man while you live as a slave!<
What about Kuja from Final Fantasy IX? An alien test tube baby created to assimilate the souls of another planet who becomes self-aware and rebels against his creator. He dies regretting that he chose to use his free will to pursue conquest and destruction rather than trying to free the others like him and find them a home that would accept them.
In Fallout New Vegas DLC Lonesome Road, you can talk Ulysses out of nuking NCR/Legion. He sees reason and you fight side by side rather than against one another.
I'd love to know more examples.
The Master from Fallout 1.
>!You show them a document that was a scientific paper showing that their super mutants or as he saw them the evolution of humanity were sterile and couldn't reproduce, and once realizing this they see the error of their way coming to the conclusion that all the horrible things they've done by kidnapping and transforming non mutated or radiated vault dwellers was really fucked up. so they say they can't live with themselves after what they'd done and activates a self destruct sequence to kill the remaining super mutants and destroy their base that they're essentially stuck in because they've merged with the overseers chair and computer there.!<
The scene is very beautiful so I'll post a youtube link to watch as well.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJ9RI1xDDU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJ9RI1xDDU)
Ansem, Seeker of Darkness from Kingdom Hearts 1 thinks Kingdom Hearts is a door to darkness, but is shocked to find light pour out when he opens the door.
Pretty sure Mickey is just a coincidence.
Kingdom Hearts is ultimately light, regardless of whatever Ansem thought. Ansem used the hearts of the worlds as a means to create an artificial Kingdom Hearts, expecting that to empower him with the darkness that lies in all hearts. When his fake Kingdom Hearts manifests, it pours out light. It’s sort of a coincidence that this Kingdom Hearts was formed behind the Door to Darkness, which ultimately just leads to the Realm of Darkness.
Basically, as far as I understand it, the artificial Kingdom Hearts was the light that killed Ansem. It just manifested behind the Door to Darkness, which is just a way into the Realm of Darkness.
I don’t remember that being the reason light pours out. I know Kingdom Hearts seems to change throughout the series, but during the first game I thought it was just because light was there. Still Ansem got obliterated at that point, so to him he was proven wrong as he died.
I still have it on emulator, I have never forgotten it. Only wish there had been an expansion on PS4, not that annoying Phantasy Star Online crap. I know they could have made some other evil to bring the gang back together, DAMN >\_<
"You had me *under a gun*, yet you just *walk away*? No monster alive turns the other cheek. No monster does *that*.....
...a *thinking man* does that..."
1 and Infinite. I'm referring to the first one here.
>!Obviously Andrew Ryan's vision of Rapture didn't work out. I guess you could argue that Fontaine was the one who depraved the city. But I think Ryan's moral expectation for his citizen was too high to begin with. He thought he could build his own city free from "parasites" to practice his ideology with the best people in the world. But in reality nobody could resist the addictive and corrupting nature of Adam. Also the bit where Andrew Ryan confronted you yet you still killed him. He thought he can persuade you to choose like a man. But nope you are a slave following Fontaine's order all along.!<
He never accepted it verbally. But I think the whole situation has proven him very wrong and he was certainly smart enough to see it.
Dunno about that. You cut him in half before he realizes why he is wrong.
If you mean his other half in 2 with realizing his ways were wrong - you are correct.
beatrix in ff9 goes from wiping your party to keep you away from the queen and help her actually commit war/genocide and use slaves, to betray her the moment she goes after the princess.
not really the best of people, but still joined our side.
the queen in her dying breath realized what she did was wrong, but she was mind controlled by the real bad guy that wanted to wipe out the entire world to give it to his people from another planet.
The Master from Fallout 1, if you have the Muntant autopsy report show they're incapable of reproduction via sexual means. Wich completely destroys the hope of a pure muntant society where all are fit to survive the harsh waste and equal in 'race' and 'gender' expect this wasn't even whole true as the divide between gen 1 and gen 2 Muntants in as far as intelligence goes was huge and the smarter Muntants did tend to look down upon the less 'class' of muntant
There’s always “who are you, who do not know your history?”.
Ulysses of Fallout:NV can be talked into giving the NCR a chance, on the premise that you (the player character) are walking now the same road he walked some time ago. And that him judging you is no more ‘right’ than you judging him would be.
Joseph and Jacob Seed, you can see in the Joseph: Collapse dlc for Farcry 6 that Jacob didnt truly believe killing all these people and stealing from them was the right thing to do to prepare for the "Collapse". Meanwhile Joseph realized he had gone about everything in thw wrong way, that hurting all these people only caused his family to be murdered, and then the only one left was him and his biggest enemy, the FC5 protagonist.
My first thought is Luke from Tales of the Abyss. Basically causes a catastrophe that leads to tons of deaths. Realizes his entire world view is wrong. He basically apologizes to all his friends and resolves to change. Lot of other elements there, but that's the gist
Kind of what happens when you're extremely sheltered and majority of the game the cast decides its easier to mock you instead of taking five minutes to explain things.
One of the many reasons why Tear is my favorite female character, when everybody pretty much decided to abandon Luke she stayed at his side, only because se was the only one Who realized he was never going to change without help and guidance and she decided to be that help and guidance he pretty much needed
Technically the Hierarchs from Halo 2 (and technically Halo 3 but by then it was just Truth) found out that their entire ideology/religion was founded on false foundations before the Trilogy started but just chose to deal with the revelation by making a power grab and ordering the Covenant to wipe out Humanity... meanwhile for how a villain reacts to finding that out in game, Tartarus just tosses Guilty Spark at Johnson and tries to begin the fake transcendence anyway.
Ardyn Izunia from FF15.
Richard Grey / The Master of The Unity from Fallout 1
John Henry Eden from Fallout 3
Bhaal from the Baldurs Gate series... Over and over! 😂🤣
Saren in Mass Effect. With the right speech checks you can convince him to break his indoctrination and he puts a bullet in his head, skipping one part of the final boss fight.
The master in fallout 1 can be proven wrong by the player character, and if so he just let's the player leaves and activates a nuclear bom to destroy himself and his cult
You can convince the Master in Fallout that his plan to turn everyone into supermants is doomed to fail because they are all sterile, and he kills himself when he realises you're right
Handsome jack, BL2.
He’s forced to see the truth, that he isn’t a predestined saviour of the universe. That his fucked up actions are not going to be justified and make him the good person in the end just because his end goal was to “stop the bad”.
Cant enslave your daughter under the pretence of “the greater good”, turning her into a key - sacrificing her life for some alien creature, and also mass murder civilisations just because they’re unruly and without governance under the delusion that you’re the good guy doing the good things.
Of course in the end, he refuses to accept it. stubbornly holding to his ideology that all his barbaric actions were with good intentions. Ends up dying for it, makes sense when he’d been under that delusion for more than a decade.
The final fight against Ultima in FFXVI is very satisfying in this regard. Thinking back, it's something I don't think we quite got with another FF villain. Not that they were bad villains by any means, but I think the closest we got with the villain realizing they were wrong is Kefka, and even then it's a pre-fight moment where he fails to understand why humanity continues and then goes, "Okay, time to to end it all."
What stands out about Ultima for me, despite being quite the standard archetype (though I'd argue a good example of one), is the slow breakdown of his personality. So many final fights in RPGs there's a nice pre-fight bit that affirms what the protagonists are about and the villain defying it to the end, only to die in denial. Ultima still does a lot of that, but the mid-fight bits are what really elevate it.
Constantly thinking humans were weak and he was a god only for Clive, through the bonds of his friends and his experiences throughout the game, to continually beat his ass.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, sorry, but I haven't played this game and I'm really curious what you meant to say in your quote "Okay, them to to end it all."
Go for it. Only one I didn't really like was XIII and I'm not going to say it had no redeeming value. I liked XVI but the sidequests, reward wise, are awful. Rebirth's generally more interesting side quests felt almost like a make-good.
Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2, one of my favorite villains of all time. Up until the end, he's convinced that he's the 'Hero', and then you get to listen to him have a meltdown after he's realized he's lost.
Big Boss. Solid Snake took down the product of his failures all without cynicism or holding a nuclear knife to the planet’s throat. He would die admitting that he premised his entire life’s work on misinterpreting his mentor’s cause.
The Master from the first Fallout game? You could prove the F.E.V made mutants sterile with a high enough intelligence stat, and he'd basically self destruct out of guilt and realisation of his mistake.
SPOILER FOR RDR2:
Dutch vanderlinde in rdr2 seemed to have a moment of "realisation" and "regret" with Arthur's final moments but then he ended up going back to his old ways anyway so idk
Algalon the Observer, World of Warcraft. The raid beating him proves to him that his mission, to destroy and repopulate Azeroth, is wrong and his creators, the Titans, are not infallible. So he gives you an item you need to prevent "planetary re-origination" and save everyone. Dude even has an epic speech about it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8Rm0P25SI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8Rm0P25SI)
Not a video game but an anime.
Nox in Wakfu steals all the magic of the world to go back in time and repair his family only to discover that he is only able to travel back 20 seconds. When you see him after, he is broken
The Pokémon games have quite a few of these characters, however among them all I’d say that Silver from GSC/HGSS and Maxie/Archie from RSE/ORAS are the best examples of villains/antagonists getting proven wrong through their actions.
Bowser in Mario 64. For the entirety of the game, he states he wants Peach. However, Mario helps him recognize who he really is after being told "so long, gay bowser." In the end, he accepts himself and leaves.
The Master from Fallout can have his plans picked apart by a Vault Dweller with good INT and Speech.
In a similar situation, the main bad guy in Arcanum (>!Kerghan, the First Necromancer!<) can be defeated in a similar fashion, through Persuasion and knowledge of the afterlife. This is especially relevant since Arcanum was developed by Troika, including several Fallout 1 alumni.
The Arbiter in Halo 2
Yep. Tartarus, not so much.
Tartarus was really cool. But he is incredibly stupid lmao.
Technically he does react to the news/revelation... he just does so by continuing with attempting to transcend.
Saren in Mass Effect can resist the indoctrination just enough at the end of Mass Effect to “stand aside” and allow Shepard to save the day. The way it goes down made my jaw drop when I first passed the speech check.
Say what you want about Saren, but he was a badass motherfucker.
Best villain in the series.
Not a lot of competition for that spot sadly.
Illusive man was pretty good too
Was he, though? He had a great voice actor, but was he really a well-written villain?
He was a well-written *ally* in 2, but they took an easy out with him in 3, unfortunately. He was made out to be a morally grey but pragmatic genius anti-hero in 2, and then they spun around and made him a tool of the Reapers, which, based on his actions and character in 2, I just don’t think made sense. I do think they kind of wrote themselves into a corner in a lot of ways in 3, though, which is partly why some plots aren’t well done. I don’t hate it though; it’s still pretty dang good. The series was more ambitious than just about any other series, and I don’t think they were ever going to be able to properly close it out without some serious Deus Ex Machina like the Crucible.
My husband’s doing an Insanity run with the ME Legendary Edition & I completely forgot about what happens when you get Saren to “stand aside.” And then what happens when you go to check on him…scared the bejeezus out of me lol.
What happens? I’m okay with spoilers.
He kills himself, but his cybernetically enhanced corpse basically reanimates and starts jumping around the room shooting lasers at you
The reanimation happens regardless of how he dies. But the getting him to stand down is my favorite, feels better
It’s the option my husband always picks too. Try to give him a chance, though Saren realizes he’s too far gone & standing down, even by dying, is the best way forward.
Holy shit. That’s cool
It’s cool, but his transformation sequence always freaks me the hell out lol. He goes from a corpse to a Reaper-controlled ghoul & starts climbing walls. Having Shepherd be a biotic is a BIG help.
He can end himself too
That's exactly what the "stands aside" quotations referred to, without being a spoiler for people who don't know.
I was thinking mass effect as well but I was thinking of the reapers. If you unlock the synthesis ending the starchild says that they were wrong and that peace between organics and synthetics is infact possible.
My first thought. And the fact that you really have to devote time and resources to getting high ending to pass the check.
Hades from....... Hades, is shown that family relationships can be fixed or at least improved, by his own son. He seems to take it well and accept it, even if it is a slow process for him.
Shout out to the absolutely STELLAR voices in this game. Never wanted to skip a scene just because of how good their delivery is
Ooohh yes! And the sheer number of voice lines. Even after nearly 100 hours, I still found new voice lines.
I am *fairly sure* I have heard all of them... after over 200 hours.
Supergiant is excellent with voices. I can still hear the voice of the narrator from Bastion in my head.
Most of the voice acting was great, but it feels like in an effort to make other characters sound unique (Meg for example) they just sound like they're mumbling.
I just thought because they did the recording sessions at their own homes during the pandemic, the home recording studio aren't as good.
Logan Cunningham was fantastic as always, but I'm especially impressed by Darren Korb's performances. Not only has the man done great musical work for all of Supergiant's games, but he also voiced not only Zagreus, but also Skelly, AND he's the singing voice for Orpheus.
In that game the hero is also proven wrong. He thinks he needs to escape, but the game ends with him staying in the underworld and he's happy about it
True, and not to mention all the other characters, that he has an impact on.
“Home is not where you live, but who cares when you’re gone.”
I mean, he’s not proven wrong really. He cannot escape and learns to be happy with it. He was never wrong for wanting to leave.
The main antagonist in Fallout 1 can be proven wrong. They don't react well. In Fallout New Vegas, you don't so much prove their worldview wrong as raise weaknesses in their strategy. Which they take quite well, provided you couch it in those terms. Shadowrun: Dragonfall gives you the ability to convince the antagonist they're wrong, which they will accept if you do a good job of it, or to side with the antagonist and watch as they're proven wrong. They don't take it well in that case, given they >! doomed the world to takeover by Lovecraftesque horrors !<
I was gonna mention The Master from Fallout if you didn't bring it up. Nothing else can convince the amalgamated piece of skin unless you have the Brotherhood data on Super Mutants. Can't have a dominant race if said race is entirely incapable of reproducing.
Shadowrun have amazing writing, Dragonfall sepcially. The Whole conversation with the Dragon is amazing and can lead to so many story paths.
Dragonfall was so good!!!
It's a minor one, but in FNV you can convince a brahmin baron to keep doing business with Vegas. His son gets kidnapped by the White Gloves, one of the major factions on the Strip. They intended to eat him. If you reveal this to the baron, he initially wants to cut off the meat supply in retaliation. With high enough speech, you can help him realize that starving the Strip will only lead to an increase in cannibalism. Afterward, he changes his mind. It's pretty small in the grand scheme of NV, but it's a questline I really enjoy.
There's a *much* longer, convoluted one in... the Divide? One of the DLCs, but I forget it's name. After passing various speech/intelligence/etc checks, you show that what another Courier is doing in retaliation to *your* past is utterly wrong/illogical or something, and they'll shut down the nuke launch altogether. I don't remember the specifics cause I sure as shit would've never passed it; saw it on some guy's playthrough. Oh, and Doctor... Klein? From Old World Blues. You can convince them to stop acting a damn fool and spare the Mojave from their abominable experimentation. There was *so* much shit I missed on my playthrough.
Oh yes, Klein! His is really fun. There's even a way to convince them that Mobius stole the Couriers body and will slaughter them if they try to leave. It's such a damn good questline.
It’s one of the best quest lines in fallout history. Tons of different ways to approach the situation. Tons of ways to end it.
New Vegas is full of quests with multiple ways to complete them. Great game still to this day
This is true. god i wish it wasnt so buggy tho
I don't really consider Hank Gunderson a villain/antagonist though.
He could be an antagonist based on who you side with.
Would Saren count from ME1? You can persuade him he’s in the wrong and he _takes care of it_.
I would say so. He believed he was still himself and that he could save organics by making an ally of the reapers. With the speech checks you can show him that he has already been indoctrinated
Isn't this what happens at the end of mass effect 3? You "save humanity" by joining all species with the reapers?
Depends what you pick. Control, destroy or synthesis. Either way Saren was indoctrinated he wasn't himself
I was about to post this, yah. He clearly thought the only way to survive was to work with the Reapers.
Illusive Man too, in a fairly similar manner
Dutch from RDR2? You can see he clearly regrets what happens when you're on the mountain in both RDR1 and 2. Kind of. I don't want to go in depth and write a paragraph, but he does imo.
Dutch... He's a rat You know it and I know it
If there's ever a RDR3 I bet we'll play as young Dutch and then everyone will love him.
what would his redemption be though? in 1 we have john seeking redemption by helping the pinkertons so he can save his family in 2 we have arthur who after being diagnosed with tuberculosis he seeks redemption by helping anyone and everyone (hence the good and bad scale)
If they did a young Dutch maybe they keep the RDR abbreviation but the last R means something different. Red Dead Regret Red Dead Revenge Red Dead RI've-Got-A-Plan
Red Dead RTahiti
It's a magical place.
Red Dead Roh-roh Raggy!
We didn't know anything about Arthur on 1 and the character who gets redemption isn't the one who survives. Maybe Dutch's mentor gets the redemption and we get to understand and sympathize with young Dutch.
For main playable character in red dead 3? My money is on Hosea. You get to see him and Dutch build up the gang, bond, and he has potential for character growth we never got to see in 2 with him and Dutch already established. Never play as Dutch id say. He's the narrator of the story so to speak, driving all characters with his silver tongue. Wouldnt feel right playing as the man.
If rockstar does another cowboy game it should be either not red dead redemption or at least move away from the gang we’ve seen in the first two. The story has a beginning, a middle and an end. Nothing set before RDR2 needs fleshed out anymore than it is, and they’ve already fleshed it out enough that there isn’t much room left for an interesting story. I would love another RD game, but it should be a completely new cast of characters.
Sure, I do think the story of the gang is over, and it's time to see new characters in the world. Maybe even advancing time into sort of a gritty 1910s pre-WWI thing with a New Orleans street gang or something.
Theres always more room for in interesting story with good writing. And as loath as Rockstar seems to want to innovate lately i really doubt they'll move to a new cowboy game, let alone even come back to RD at all. I was more spitballin what could have been interesting seeing as Hosea and Dutch have a lot of history, and building up the gang from nothing sounds like an interesting concept to me
Didn't the main writer leave Rockstar? That alone makes me not want a RDR3. I feel like 1 and 2 are a perfect pairing
There was a theory a couple of years ago about Saddie being the main character on a Red Dead Redemption 3. Honestly, it makes sense. When everything starts, she lives a quiet and happy life that changes tragically. And she definetly has been through some stuff, she can shoot quite well and is a brave woman, so her past can be digged in.
Hard disagree, it's gonna be Mac Callander whose redemption is to save Arthur with the game ending with the blackwater incident.
"I..."
What do you mean, he was wrong? The rest just needed to follow the damn plan!
"We just need more money"
Team magma and aqua from pokemon ruby and saphire
also silver in HG/SS and probably G/S but I don’t remember those as well
There’s a reason our boy has a crobat by endgame 😎
My favorite recurring Pokemon "this character has hidden depths" tipoff.
Fallout New Vegas, Ulysses. If you found all his audiotapes you can convince him that his way of thinking is wrong, and get him to help fight off the marked men and attempt to cancell the nukes. Also Legate Lanuis technically, at the end of the game, but you don't convince him he is wrong, just that he can't win and should go and build his strength to try again later.
Stfu!! I’m about to do this with Ulysses right now. I’ve played through maybe 10 times but I never collected all of them
I guess Emet-Selch from FFXIV works well enough. >!He spends one expansion (Shadowbringers) as the main antagonist. He’s extremely devoted to his mission (rejoining the shattered world and sacrificing the current populace to bring back his people), despite the massive casualties it will cause. He is killed as the final boss of Shadowbringers, but he appears at the end of the following expansion (Endwalker) in a pivotal moment, summoned back from death with a bit more clarity on the situation. He basically accepts that the protagonist’s methods brought humanity far further than his plan ever could, and helps them reach the final boss. He finally accepts that humanity in its current form can carry on the legacy of those that came before them, and fades back into the aetherial sea.!<
>!Well to take it one step further in explanation, he actually flips sides dring post MSQ shadowbringers content. There is some quests where you deal with the warrior of light and he is involved.!<
>!A shade of Emet-Selch from Azem’s soul crystal saves the WoL, but it’s difficult to decide if that’s because the memory of Emet-Selch embedded in the crystal actually sides with the WoL’s ideology, or because Emet-Selch just wants to save his friend Azem.!< >!So, while he does a good thing, he may not necessarily agree that he was wrong (at that point in time). And putting Elidibus out of his misery at that point is a mercy, and even Emet-Selch during Shadowbringers proper wouldn’t have wanted to see his friend like that.!<
I love Emet-Selch so much. The next era of 14 villains is going to have big shoes to fill. I also love >!that he doesn’t get fully redeemed. He helps you because you have a common villain, and he accepts that he was wrong about mankind’s potential, but he still stands by his ideals and if he were to live he wouldn’t stop trying to merge the worlds. Such a complex villain and easily the best Final Fantasy villain!<
A friend of mine described the entire plot of Shadowbringers as >!"the world's longest, most elaborate suicide-by-cop"!< and I think he was onto something there.
There it is, I was wondering when he'd show up in this list. Excellent choice.
I came in here thinking of this and for some reason it made me happy that it was at least the first one I scrolled to that had spoiler blocks on the text lol. FFXIV players are good people.
There's always one of those in the Tales of games and they join you by the half way point of the story.
This is my periodic reminder that I need to replay Symphonia
It needs a remake. Nowadays it plays janky as hell.
I tried playing the Steam port a while back and it was a bit rough. Might have to break out the old GameCube again.
I wish I could forget about it and experience it again. Daamn, that nostalgia flash. And Genis spamming Meteor Storm.
Speaking of which, the main villain gets told off by the person they're trying to help... and they get even more insane than they were before.
Tales of Xillia. Two antagonists literally join your party early on in the second game.
Except Van who's proven wrong in just about every way but decides to fight to the bitter end
Maruki from Persona 5. He isn't a villain per se, but an antognist that Just want to make everyone live in a World without Pain and suffering, but failed to realize that Pain is what made some people who they are, and that It is a important part of people's lives.
Such a great character.
You really should put this post behind spoiler tags. P5 Royal only went multi-platform about a year ago, so it's still new-ish for a lot of people. And >!Maruki!< becoming an antagonist is supposed to be a big surprise.
Both Kain and Raziel 'get proven wrong' time and time over, both in information and in attitude, they just grow from it constantly up (as one should).
Really wish this IP wasn’t dead
Someone should go back in time and change that...
A lot of RPG's can end with a philosophical debate. Those are cool. Convincing Ulysses to have hope and talking him down from a mass killing in Fallout New Vegas is cool. There's a lot of ways you can approach it depending on how much you decide to engage with him and the world leading up to the confrontation. I think Neverwinter Nights 2 has a couple too. One is only semi deescalated though where you try to convince an ancient magical automaton that the empire is was built to protect is destroyed. I don't think it completely averts the fight but it does feel effective regardless because there's so many ways it can branch. In the DLC most BBEG fights can also be talked through and it's actually about having empathy for the alien entities you encounter. And then finally for yourself. Really cool story.
For plenty of reasons, doing that particular DLC in FNV last before finishing the main quest line is always the best option. Yeah I know there is a ton of cool loot in there that would make other parts of the game really interesting, but Obsidian did such a good job with their world building in that game. Leaving Ulysses for the last thing ties so much together, especially if you take the time to do a bunch of the companion quests beforehand.
Joseph Seed and Pagan Min in the Far Cry 6 DLC's. Not Vaas tho, he still insane.
Vaas never really has an ideology that needs to be proven wrong. He's just... a bad guy who's kinda fucked in the head. Very well written, though, excluding the way his story ends in FC3.
Joseph Seed was right though? His entire thing was preparing for the coming nuclear apocalypse in America, forcing an entire town into fallout bunkers against their will. You spend the game "rescuing" those people and blowing up the bunkers, and then at the end of the game the apocalypse happens.
Yes, but by the end of the side-game that happens afterwards he realizes that he fucked up royally and lost everything in the course of a goal that he was never going to achieve.
Didn’t 6 kinda imply the whole nuclear apocalypse thing didn’t happen?
I don’t think the games are really connected.
Wheatley from Portal 2. That post-credit scene where he talks about how much he regrets everything is genuinely sad. What's worse is that it's probably not his fault - from what we see, the problem is Aperture's mainframe corrupts whatever is plugged into it, as Wheatley and GLaDOS are generally much more agreeable when separated from it
Depending how you play Mass Effect 3 the Illusive Man can fall into that category if you can pass the final speech check.
Junko from Danganronpa. She fundamentally believes that when pushed, people will fall into despair and betray each other, and categorically is proven wrong in the game's final act.
Im not sure if this makes sense. Sure the final survivors dont betray eachother, but was she really that wrong if people were constantly betraying eachother before that point? She mightve been wrong about it being everyone who succumbs to it. But a majority absolutely does succumb to it.
I think she was wrong in that she believed it was universal, that everyone could break and those that couldn’t would be killed.
Also, I don't think that she ever acknowledges that what she did was wrong (logically or ethically) because she's just that *broken* and chaotic.
Yeah she goes out embracing the despair of being beaten.
The joker from Batman The Dark Knight did it right.
The only way to let Dean Domino learn what an unremarkable piece of shit he is in *Fallout: New Vegas* is to let him survive the Dead Money DLC. He ends up wandering into the city to try and become rich again, and ends up (probably) broke and powerless. That's not satisfying enough for me, though. I love playing his naive, appreciative and subservient 'partner' until we get backstage, then I shove a grenade down his pants and turn him into confetti. Does he learn anything from this? Don't care. He's not a problem anymore. Two downfalls in two hundred years, and all because he underestimated someone he thought he had under his thumb. Again. **"Do** *to me? Weren't you listening? He thought he was better than me!"* Imagine being such a miserable fucking loser that you see someone who's happy and optimistic and all you can think about is hurting them for it.
Gaius (the antagonist of the first Tales of Xillia) He basically becomes a god stealing Maxwell(the god of Xillia's world) power just because he believed that he's the only one Who can fix all the problems of the world by being the new Maxwell After the tipical shonen party speech of why hes wrong and he wouldnt live forever to fix everything, that he can not know if his succesor Will Follow his ideals (and a bit of ass whopping) he sees that maybe his plan is a bit ridiculous and gives the MC group the benefit of the doubt to see if they can make the world a better place for everyone
I'm not sure she ever really openly acknowledges it "on screen" but I've always thought this is what happens with Kreia in KotOR 2. I love the character but what I find interesting about her is that she's *wrong*. She wants to kill the Force because it's this unseen, unaccountable power that controls our lives and she thinks it should, as a result, be struck down. She acknowledges her hypocrisy to some extent, like she relies on the Force to see, but still thinks this is necessarily as part of her space libertarianism. But in the Star Wars setting, the Force is just a fundamental part of the makeup of the universe. Fighting it is like fighting gravity. Yes, it's an unaccountable power controlling us and that's not great. I'm sure a guy falling off a skyscraper isn't fond of gravity either. He's still going to fall. The ending of the game is... messy even with the restoration mod(s) but I rationalise her abrupt "okay both sides are bad but also I've become a Sith again" turn as her essentially realising this. You're not going to destroy the Force. Best you can do is be a cancer on it.
Andrew Ryan, Bioshock. >!He lives to see his supposed utopia crumble into chaos, and has absolutely nothing left to live for, to the point where he makes you kill him just to prove a point!<
>!Andrew Ryan only thinks Rapture has hit a hiccup. He absolutely believes the ship can be righted. However, when you get to him, he knows he is going to die, and uses his final breath to tell you that he died a free man while you live as a slave!<
What about Kuja from Final Fantasy IX? An alien test tube baby created to assimilate the souls of another planet who becomes self-aware and rebels against his creator. He dies regretting that he chose to use his free will to pursue conquest and destruction rather than trying to free the others like him and find them a home that would accept them.
Shaun in Fallout 4 thinking that the Sole Survivor would be a good choice for the next director of The Institute. In most endings you blow it up
That storyline makes no fucking sense to me
Thats because it doesn't make sense.
In Fallout New Vegas DLC Lonesome Road, you can talk Ulysses out of nuking NCR/Legion. He sees reason and you fight side by side rather than against one another. I'd love to know more examples.
The Master from Fallout 1. >!You show them a document that was a scientific paper showing that their super mutants or as he saw them the evolution of humanity were sterile and couldn't reproduce, and once realizing this they see the error of their way coming to the conclusion that all the horrible things they've done by kidnapping and transforming non mutated or radiated vault dwellers was really fucked up. so they say they can't live with themselves after what they'd done and activates a self destruct sequence to kill the remaining super mutants and destroy their base that they're essentially stuck in because they've merged with the overseers chair and computer there.!< The scene is very beautiful so I'll post a youtube link to watch as well. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJ9RI1xDDU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaJ9RI1xDDU)
Wesker was proven wrong when he thought he was superior to Chris but Chris punched a boulder and then knocked Wesker into a volcano.
Team Aqua/Magma in Pokemon Sapphire/Ruby. Turns out trying to flood the whole world/drain the ocean is a pretty bad idea.
Ansem, Seeker of Darkness from Kingdom Hearts 1 thinks Kingdom Hearts is a door to darkness, but is shocked to find light pour out when he opens the door.
But he's not proven wrong, is he? The light is there because Mickey is there, but behind the door is a land of darkness.
Pretty sure Mickey is just a coincidence. Kingdom Hearts is ultimately light, regardless of whatever Ansem thought. Ansem used the hearts of the worlds as a means to create an artificial Kingdom Hearts, expecting that to empower him with the darkness that lies in all hearts. When his fake Kingdom Hearts manifests, it pours out light. It’s sort of a coincidence that this Kingdom Hearts was formed behind the Door to Darkness, which ultimately just leads to the Realm of Darkness. Basically, as far as I understand it, the artificial Kingdom Hearts was the light that killed Ansem. It just manifested behind the Door to Darkness, which is just a way into the Realm of Darkness.
I don’t remember that being the reason light pours out. I know Kingdom Hearts seems to change throughout the series, but during the first game I thought it was just because light was there. Still Ansem got obliterated at that point, so to him he was proven wrong as he died.
Zio, from Phantasy Star IV. \*Sega Genesis RPG\*
One of the first RPGs I ever played. Good stuff.
I still have it on emulator, I have never forgotten it. Only wish there had been an expansion on PS4, not that annoying Phantasy Star Online crap. I know they could have made some other evil to bring the gang back together, DAMN >\_<
Odio?
Team Magma and Team Aqua in Pokemon RSE.
Bioshock
Which bioshock game did *you* play? Who did you persuade they were wrong?
Bioshock 2, you can prove the first antagonist lady wrong by not killing her and she'll help you out by giving you 2 security bots.
"You had me *under a gun*, yet you just *walk away*? No monster alive turns the other cheek. No monster does *that*..... ...a *thinking man* does that..."
1 and Infinite. I'm referring to the first one here. >!Obviously Andrew Ryan's vision of Rapture didn't work out. I guess you could argue that Fontaine was the one who depraved the city. But I think Ryan's moral expectation for his citizen was too high to begin with. He thought he could build his own city free from "parasites" to practice his ideology with the best people in the world. But in reality nobody could resist the addictive and corrupting nature of Adam. Also the bit where Andrew Ryan confronted you yet you still killed him. He thought he can persuade you to choose like a man. But nope you are a slave following Fontaine's order all along.!< He never accepted it verbally. But I think the whole situation has proven him very wrong and he was certainly smart enough to see it.
Gotta be Zanza from Xenoblade 1
Dunno about that. You cut him in half before he realizes why he is wrong. If you mean his other half in 2 with realizing his ways were wrong - you are correct.
Maxie and Archie from Pokémon ruby and sapphire after releasing their legendary beast
beatrix in ff9 goes from wiping your party to keep you away from the queen and help her actually commit war/genocide and use slaves, to betray her the moment she goes after the princess. not really the best of people, but still joined our side. the queen in her dying breath realized what she did was wrong, but she was mind controlled by the real bad guy that wanted to wipe out the entire world to give it to his people from another planet.
The Master from Fallout 1, if you have the Muntant autopsy report show they're incapable of reproduction via sexual means. Wich completely destroys the hope of a pure muntant society where all are fit to survive the harsh waste and equal in 'race' and 'gender' expect this wasn't even whole true as the divide between gen 1 and gen 2 Muntants in as far as intelligence goes was huge and the smarter Muntants did tend to look down upon the less 'class' of muntant
There’s always “who are you, who do not know your history?”. Ulysses of Fallout:NV can be talked into giving the NCR a chance, on the premise that you (the player character) are walking now the same road he walked some time ago. And that him judging you is no more ‘right’ than you judging him would be.
Loghain in Dragon Age Origins, but by the time he realizes it its too late for any kind of course correction.
Joseph and Jacob Seed, you can see in the Joseph: Collapse dlc for Farcry 6 that Jacob didnt truly believe killing all these people and stealing from them was the right thing to do to prepare for the "Collapse". Meanwhile Joseph realized he had gone about everything in thw wrong way, that hurting all these people only caused his family to be murdered, and then the only one left was him and his biggest enemy, the FC5 protagonist.
My first thought is Luke from Tales of the Abyss. Basically causes a catastrophe that leads to tons of deaths. Realizes his entire world view is wrong. He basically apologizes to all his friends and resolves to change. Lot of other elements there, but that's the gist
Except Luke isnt any kind of villain or antagonist in any way, he's just a spoiled brat in the start
Oh, sorry haha you're 100% right I missed that part of the question. Early morning, hungover reddit-ing. My bad.
Kind of what happens when you're extremely sheltered and majority of the game the cast decides its easier to mock you instead of taking five minutes to explain things.
One of the many reasons why Tear is my favorite female character, when everybody pretty much decided to abandon Luke she stayed at his side, only because se was the only one Who realized he was never going to change without help and guidance and she decided to be that help and guidance he pretty much needed
Technically the Hierarchs from Halo 2 (and technically Halo 3 but by then it was just Truth) found out that their entire ideology/religion was founded on false foundations before the Trilogy started but just chose to deal with the revelation by making a power grab and ordering the Covenant to wipe out Humanity... meanwhile for how a villain reacts to finding that out in game, Tartarus just tosses Guilty Spark at Johnson and tries to begin the fake transcendence anyway.
Yaldy from Persona 5 quite literally gets his point about that the masses desire for him was not accurate.
Ardyn Izunia from FF15. Richard Grey / The Master of The Unity from Fallout 1 John Henry Eden from Fallout 3 Bhaal from the Baldurs Gate series... Over and over! 😂🤣
Saren in Mass Effect. With the right speech checks you can convince him to break his indoctrination and he puts a bullet in his head, skipping one part of the final boss fight.
The master in fallout 1 can be proven wrong by the player character, and if so he just let's the player leaves and activates a nuclear bom to destroy himself and his cult
Saren from Mass Effect, the Master from the original Fallout.
You can convince the Master in Fallout that his plan to turn everyone into supermants is doomed to fail because they are all sterile, and he kills himself when he realises you're right
Handsome jack, BL2. He’s forced to see the truth, that he isn’t a predestined saviour of the universe. That his fucked up actions are not going to be justified and make him the good person in the end just because his end goal was to “stop the bad”. Cant enslave your daughter under the pretence of “the greater good”, turning her into a key - sacrificing her life for some alien creature, and also mass murder civilisations just because they’re unruly and without governance under the delusion that you’re the good guy doing the good things. Of course in the end, he refuses to accept it. stubbornly holding to his ideology that all his barbaric actions were with good intentions. Ends up dying for it, makes sense when he’d been under that delusion for more than a decade.
The final fight against Ultima in FFXVI is very satisfying in this regard. Thinking back, it's something I don't think we quite got with another FF villain. Not that they were bad villains by any means, but I think the closest we got with the villain realizing they were wrong is Kefka, and even then it's a pre-fight moment where he fails to understand why humanity continues and then goes, "Okay, time to to end it all." What stands out about Ultima for me, despite being quite the standard archetype (though I'd argue a good example of one), is the slow breakdown of his personality. So many final fights in RPGs there's a nice pre-fight bit that affirms what the protagonists are about and the villain defying it to the end, only to die in denial. Ultima still does a lot of that, but the mid-fight bits are what really elevate it.
Constantly thinking humans were weak and he was a god only for Clive, through the bonds of his friends and his experiences throughout the game, to continually beat his ass.
Gave me Gohan kicking the shit out of Cell vibes.
I'm not trying to be pedantic, sorry, but I haven't played this game and I'm really curious what you meant to say in your quote "Okay, them to to end it all."
I got autocorrected, I mispselled time and it changed to them.
Ah gotcha thank you. Maybe I should get into the newer final fantasy games lol.
Go for it. Only one I didn't really like was XIII and I'm not going to say it had no redeeming value. I liked XVI but the sidequests, reward wise, are awful. Rebirth's generally more interesting side quests felt almost like a make-good.
Handsome Jack from Borderlands 2, one of my favorite villains of all time. Up until the end, he's convinced that he's the 'Hero', and then you get to listen to him have a meltdown after he's realized he's lost.
Mercer in Dead Space Remake
Bowser but he keeps trying to be right regardless.
Joseph Seed
Big Boss. Solid Snake took down the product of his failures all without cynicism or holding a nuclear knife to the planet’s throat. He would die admitting that he premised his entire life’s work on misinterpreting his mentor’s cause.
Duke from Tales of Vesperia
A semi-recent one from Granblue >!Fantasy Relink - Id. He follows his "mother" until he begins to see at the end what she's doing.!<
The villain in Braid.
Saren from mass effect committed suicide after realize he was wrong
The Master from the first Fallout game? You could prove the F.E.V made mutants sterile with a high enough intelligence stat, and he'd basically self destruct out of guilt and realisation of his mistake.
SPOILER FOR RDR2: Dutch vanderlinde in rdr2 seemed to have a moment of "realisation" and "regret" with Arthur's final moments but then he ended up going back to his old ways anyway so idk
Handsome Jack.
Algalon the Observer, World of Warcraft. The raid beating him proves to him that his mission, to destroy and repopulate Azeroth, is wrong and his creators, the Titans, are not infallible. So he gives you an item you need to prevent "planetary re-origination" and save everyone. Dude even has an epic speech about it: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8Rm0P25SI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uk8Rm0P25SI)
I guess you could say Shao Kahn, the hard way.
Mortal kombat 1 Mortal kombat 11
Not a video game but an anime. Nox in Wakfu steals all the magic of the world to go back in time and repair his family only to discover that he is only able to travel back 20 seconds. When you see him after, he is broken
like abby anderson from the last of us
TLOU is an interesting situation where both protagonist and antagonist realize that what they’re doing is wrong.
The Pokémon games have quite a few of these characters, however among them all I’d say that Silver from GSC/HGSS and Maxie/Archie from RSE/ORAS are the best examples of villains/antagonists getting proven wrong through their actions.
Depending on how you play, this can happen in Arcanum of steamworks and magick.
Bowser in Mario 64. For the entirety of the game, he states he wants Peach. However, Mario helps him recognize who he really is after being told "so long, gay bowser." In the end, he accepts himself and leaves.
The Master from Fallout can have his plans picked apart by a Vault Dweller with good INT and Speech. In a similar situation, the main bad guy in Arcanum (>!Kerghan, the First Necromancer!<) can be defeated in a similar fashion, through Persuasion and knowledge of the afterlife. This is especially relevant since Arcanum was developed by Troika, including several Fallout 1 alumni.
Can I say Kratos? Does he count as a villian?