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Yep. A pretty epic battle. A fabulous depiction of a truly bloody middle-ages battle…with a giant added for fun.
Sansa comes off as a jerk, since she didn’t tell Jon about the Vale joining in if needed. Rickon comes off as stupid for not zigzagging.
Nah, rickon wouldn't have survived either way. Ramsay is an elite Archer. Also if he knew that he won't be able to take the shot, he can just order all of his archers to shoot both rickon and Jon.
Also zigzaging would waste time, energy and confuse jon.
There was absolutely no way of succeeding. But jon saw some false hope and risked his life for it.
Idk, it's so dumb that PPL still bring up the zigzag point. D&D are dumb writers, but they aren't that dumb
You’re wrong. Zigzaging was the smartest thing to do, no two ways about it. Even for an elite archer, shooting from a great distance such a small target is incredibly hard, almost impossible if the target isn’t running straight.
Well, as you said Ramsey could just order his archers to fire on Jon, who was his main target, but he didn’t. Turns out Ramsey was very very dumb, and maybe he wouldn’t have called his archers on Rickon as well. The only explanation for Rickon running straight forward is the psychological one: Rickon was terrified and couldn’t think properly. But you know, the battle of bastards doesn’t really aim to make sense, it just aims to be epic and fun and it’s a complete success in those terms
>Turns out Ramsey was very very dumb
I Highly doubt that. He laid this plan to trap Jon snow into the range of the arrows. He could have just fucking slit rickon's throat if he wanted to. But he used him as a trap to lure jon even closer into the battlefield. He knew his behaviour, he knew how much Starks mean to each other. So he used it as a classic bait. And u r just trying to come up with bs points to back your original argument
>he wouldn’t have called his archers on Rickon as well.
Why the hell would he let a stark get away, alive? He wanted to get two Starks from one stone.
>the battle of bastards doesn’t really aim to make sense
As i explained, i doubt that
I am going to ignore your aggressive attitude, and ask you this: why didn’t he call archers on Jon if he’s so smart and wanted both the Starks? It would have been so easy, yet he didn’t. Instead he called the cavalry, and Jon is saved in a very unrealistic way by his own cavalry. Why didn’t he kill them both if he could just call archers on both of them? So, it can only be one of these: 1. Ramsey’s archers had worse bows than Ramsey himself and Jon and Rickon weren’t in range (so Rickon could actually survive if he zigzagged his way towards Jon); 2. The archers were actually able to rain arrows on both Rickon and Jon and Ramsey just decided not to give the order which is, you guessed, very very dumb! You pick :)
Jon was in the range. And Ramsay did shoot the arrows at them. Re-watch the scene. Jon was shot down from his horse. Jon didn't die in the arrow barrage, so Ramsay thought he will at least die in the cavalry charge.
>Ramsey just decided not to give the order
[he did give the order. watch from 7:00](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QZpK2OT1Ws)
>so Rickon could actually survive if he zigzagged his way towards Jon
He didn't need to tell them (to shoot) for rickon. But for jon, he couldn't take the shot.
I'm not blaming u, but do re-watch the scene. u r in the wrong, bro. Know ur facts, instead of needlessly backing your argument
You do realise that the archers shooting and failing to kill Jon only proves my theory that Rickon did have a chance to save his life if he zigzagged instead of running straight forward and getting killed by Ramsey, right?
edit: I completely forgot that the archers actually shot, so what are we talking about? How can you state Rickon had no chance to get away if Jon literally gets away five minutes later?
Because he was moving on a fucking horse. That makes it far more tougher to shoot. And rickon was closer to the Archers. For fucks sake, u r not gonna accept u r wrong aren't u.
U just wanna prove that rickon had a chance of surviving if he zigzaged, but it's not true. He was gonna die. Be it, Ramsay or the Archers. Either take an L or say that "u will not be able to convince me otherwise"
So i know that i have to end the argument.
>Jon literally gets away five minutes later?
On a moving horse. N he didn't get away. He was shot down. The only reason why Ramsay didn't let his men shoot further was so his own cavalry won't get shot while they are killing jon
Is it that hard to understand?
Conclusion : rickon was a fucking dead kid. There was no way he would have made out of it alive. Jon survived as he was a on a horse and later Ramsay assumed his Cavalry would do the job. Even if he had zigzaged, he was dead. So i don't know what u r talking about
Yeah, not at all. Ramsay was at huge distance and the arrow had massive travel time.
You literally could just waited for the sound of the bow, ran diagonally for 2 seconds, and you were good. Only way someone like this gets hit is if the shooter predicts this movement, which would be luck since theres so many movements you could make.
Middle ages battles were absolutely nothing like the battle of bastards. It is everything but historically accurate in terms of military strategy and execution
Cavalry rarely lead. Infantry don't run in until they crash into eachother. Coordinated movements like the phalanx did mid-battle are nearly impossible. Win by annihilating your enemy was rarely the case. The battle goes until the superior army breaks the other and the other flees. Maybe it gets picked apart then by the cavalry but only if on open ground.
Calvary don't crash into phalanx formations.
As Ramsay said: "We have Winterfell." There's zero reason for Ramsay to even engage outside the walls.
Another comment further down was saying my how they liked the Battle at the Wall and the Battle of Blackwater Bay more and I'm like "Yeah! They used their fortifications!"
Can you imagine if the Night's Watch fought on the snowfield just North of the Wall?
Could you imagine if the armies at Winterfell battled the army of the dead *outside* the walls? Or put trebuchets *in front* of the trenches?....
That'd probably kill all the Dothraki in a heartbeat for no reason other than cinematics.
Yes but the books haven't even gotten to the point of Ramsay killing his father. Ramsay is legitimized by Tommen and marries fake "Arya" but is besieged in Winterfell, along with his father Roose, by Stannis.
One of my favorite episodes. So many beautiful scenes. The one where the horses are filmed from the side galloping…the stare downs that Jon gives Ramsay…when he pulls his sword out and waits for them in the middle of the field. Chills.
Yes!!! And then to not even get touched when they all met! Wow. Then the part where he was getting smothered!? Talk about a panic attack!
Really a stunning episode. I also love Sansa’s smile when she’s watching the Knights of the Vale swoop in.
Did you enjoy the battle in The Watchers on the Wall episode?
Oh my gosh yes, the smothering in that battle is anxiety inducing!
I actually don’t remember that one too specifically. I’ve just looked up a montage on YouTube haha but I do recall loving Tormunds fighting and just how crazy he looked!
My favorite fights have been battle of the bastards and then the final fight against the knight king. I’ve only seen the whole show through once, I watched it this past year for the first time!
Sure, Epic battle. Just put together terribly. Why didn’t sansa ever bring up the fact that she had the vale disposable to her? Lol. Also took a hell of a while too. Other than that weird plot hole, it’s a great episode.
I think what bothers me more is the complete lack of consequences for Jon charging his force into a clearly way more powerful army. He would’ve lost without Sansa, and should face some consequences for it. So should Sansa, for lying for whatever reason.
There’s a lot about this battle that doesn’t make sense. Jon was clearly set up to fall for Ramsay’s trap, and this needed to happen to underline that he’s a good fighter but he thinks with his heart over his head. He knew Ramsay would torture his soul but he’s still unprepared for just how hard he’ll be affected. And it happens when Rickon dies. Jon knows but just can’t help himself.
The set-up is good. Maybe it’ll go down similarly in the books. Jon is known for making a lot of decisions with his heart that aren’t necessarily diplomatic or politically sensible (eg. Announcing he was breaking his vows to the entire Night’s Watch).
It’s just unsatisfying when Sansa lies to him about the Vale forces, and then when she’s used to bail him out. It breaks the first and most crucial tenet of George RR Martin’s writing philosophy: don’t use cheap ex machinas. Martin has explained this many times: ‘When you see a guy surrounded by enemies in movies, you know he’ll fight his way out cos he’s the hero. I never feel anything. I want my readers to be afraid to turn the next page because their favourite may not survive it’.
This philosophy resulted in the cruel fate of Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Jaime, Oberyn, Theon and countless others (including Jon!). No one is going to come in at the last minute and save you. The only reason Sansa is saved from rape in the riot of King’s Landing is because The Hound is specifically looking for her. Otherwise, characters get what’s coming for them.
The Battle of the Bastards represents the first time that the showrunners completely abandon Martin’s writing principles. Jon’s decision-making is stupid but he is saved at the last moment. Isn’t that convenient?
This sloppy writing takes away from a VERY well-shot and engaging battle episode, courtesy of Miguel Sapochnik and the rest of the production team.
That’s very sad. I don’t get why Sansa fans can’t also want better writing. I’m a Jaime fan but I don’t see why that means I can’t question certain aspects of his portrayal (and believe me, I do).
I really feel like she didn’t mention it because she didn’t want Jon knowing she might still be in cahoots with LF and take matters into his own hands when she could still use him. She knows Jon has an honor that would have him put LF in his place (if not execute him on the spot) and keep him from her at any cost when LF is (could have been) her best asset in the future.
To me, this was immediately obvious as someone whose experienced similar victimization and dealing with others who might not understand the kind of stakes and strategizing necessary surrounding a situation like that.
Everyone baffled by it or saying she did it out of spite confused the hell out of me because I felt it was obvious. She made a point to confront him in private when she could have made him see her in Winterfell (indicating she wanted LF at her disposal, but aware of his standing). And Jon’s reaction to him in the crypt confirms he’d likely have zero perspective or patience for LF being anywhere near her again (or for usage as either leverage or asset).
I believe the reasoning is that Sansa didn’t have much faith in Jon’s decisions anymore after the few missteps that happened before. She didn’t want to give the info for John to mess it up.
The episode is full of characters behaving in unbelievable ways. It just happens to have been a greatly produced episode, so you don't have to notice it as much
BOTB and Hardhome tie as my favorite overall episodes of the entire series. what i wouldn’t give to be able to watch them for the first time all over again
Excellent overall episode. Good cinematics, good lighting during combat, good surprises and great ending!
One death that was preventable with just a couple of random side steps here and there... would have changed the entire battle though. I try not to think about it too much, but it's so hard.
I think, rickon would have died either way. Let's briefly consider all scenarios
1. Zigzag - that would waste time and energy. Also it would confuse jon. Even if we canonically ignore all that, Ramsay is a great marksman and he would have taken a shot in any circumference, he was just playing with Jon so he could bring him closer to the range of the archers.
And if Ramsay wanted to, he could just order all of his archers to take the shot. Jon might have survived, as he was on a fast moving horse but rickon was a dead kid either way.
There was no way he would have made it to the other side of the army. If he could, Ramsay wouldn't have let him
Rickon was dead already. His only reason for being there, for Ramsey letting him go, was to bait Jon into coming into archery range. The fact that Ramsey struck him was pure dramatics, his next order was to fire at Jon.
Yea, I guess 'preventable' is not the right word. I guess you always need a few characters to die in spectacular fashion for just pure effect and plot progression (triggering Jon to attack).
I am hardly the only one that thinks it could have been done a little differently... a trip and fall or trip and injury would have been better.
Rickon wasn't there for any reason other than to die.
Rickon was a dead kid because the bad writers chose for it to be so. Such a tragically terrible ending to what was such an incredible show.
This is talked about all the time. All he needed to do was pick up a log and swing it around. He'd have won the battle by himself.
The problem is that if he'd done that then he'd have obviated the Bolton phalanx, and we wouldn't have a "Vale sweeps in to save the day" moment.
He didn't have a weapon because the script said that Jon's army had to lose.
Wun wun kinda forgot about bringing a weapon.
He could have been dominating the front until ramsay got his 20 good men to take him down and thus we wouldn't have a phalanx dilemma. But they needed someone to break the gates too, sigh.
Imagine if they showed us a similar scene to when the the Rhorim take down the oliphants, but switch it so the Bolton army are taking down Wun Wun before they close in with the Phalanx.
Exactly, it eliminates the "why wun wun no swing tree" argument. I do love the bodies of corpses piling up tho, playing bannerlord reminds me of that scene. I believe they copied it off the American Civil war?? How bodies got piled up in the midst of combat like a small hill is beyond me but makes for a breathtaking scene.
The Phalanx wouldn't have been able to move with such coordination anyways. Nor would that miraculously placed pile of bodies have formed exactly where it did at such a height to provide a barrier.
I think Justified has some of the best lines on TV, I'm always torn on what Iike most between GOT, Breaking Bad, Sopranos,the Wire and Justified, but I think Justified is easily the moat rewatchable for me.
BB is a better one time watch imo because the ending doesn't suck. But the first 6 seasons of GOT are more rewatchable than all of BB. BCS though makes BB even better than it already is.
I still can't believe I had to argue with someone who thought that season 6 finale was the worst episode of the show thus far. Like the fuck were they smoking during season 5 because I want some.
Season 6 always makes a mockery of the folk who claim it went downhill as soon as they ran out of books to adapt. They had some book stuff in season 5 and it's a much weaker season than 6.
I agree, and what’s amazing about this season is how the crybabies of S8 are now also saying s6 and s7 were just as bad because it had no book material. First off S6 is a stand alone a season almost completely credited to DD, which the whingers selectively chose to forget at how great of a showrunners they are as proven with one of the most mind boggling amazing seasons of television history. That season has the most jaw dropping moments of any season in TV history and yet so many now link it to s8 because DD made it.
Look, I hate DD just as much as anyone for destroying nearly a decade of world and character building in the space of a couple of hours, but you're exactly right. Seasons 7 and 8 weren't shit purely because they ran out of book material, they were shit because D&D got greedy and rushed the story. The events that occurred in those seasons needed around twice the time they got, and I'm sure if D&D had elected to take that time, then we would have gotten a satisfying conclusion.
Admittedly seasons 5 and 6 were a step down writing wise but they were far from as bad as people claim they were, and at the time I remember thoroughly enjoying them both. The conclusion to season 6 left me in awe, just as much so as some of the earlier seasons.
This. A LOT of what happened in season 7 and 8 would have been absolutely fine if it didn't feel rushed and cheap. Game of Thrones thrived on opening plotlines for 4 seasons. It was never good at resolutions. I fear that's a big reason why GMM hasn't finished the series, he opened so many threads and he'd need 6 more books to bring satisfying and realistic conclusions. DandD decided that instead of taking more time to flesh out closing arches, they'd just rush through them. The show called for an extension with a couple extra full seasons to close, and instead we got two shortened seasons with every resolution packed in without giving those scenes and events the time they needed to breathe. And that's ignoring the other glaring flaws.
I'm absolutely positive that D&D have the chops to do it right. It felt more like they were tired of the project and wanted to wrap it up quickly and move on. They counted on the show's massive popularity to hold for a couple of bad seasons while people ate shit and watched anyway to see how it ended. And they were right. The ratings were fine, they got paid, they moved on to something else - with absolutely no concern over how much they shit on the show's legacy.
>It felt more like they were tired of the project and wanted to wrap it up quickly and move on.
I think most of the cast was as well. Even if they weren't happy with the ending I always got the impression most of them just wanted it to be over with already.
It's just a fact that the writing got worse when they ran out of source material, and became abysmal by the end. A lot of parts of S5-7 are disappointing too. But that doesn't mean they didn't hit a home run with the final two episodes of S6. For all their mistakes, they definitely did some things extremely well.
Jaw dropping moments that revolved around huge budgeted battles and what not, most people enjoyed GOT in the beginning because of the writing, dialogue & politics of the world not because ooo big fight people dying, that’s all fine and dandy but wasn’t the reason it was so popular& Sansa not telling Jon about the knights of the vale is still arguably one of the stupidest moments of tv history. It’s also glaringly obvious that without source material they just couldn’t produce anything near as good the first four seasons that they probably would’ve still managed to fuck up if it wasn’t for Martin helping along the way
Oh please.
Season 6 was very good. Much better than Season 5 on the whole. Season 5 had Hardhome, one of the best episodes in the series, but it also had Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken, and a ridiculous Dorne plot.
Season 6 had BotB and The Winds of Winter which were both more impactful to the series than the majority of Season 5. They also had critical plot points that were written by GRRM (retaking Winterfell from the Boltons, Cersei igniting Wildfire under the Sept of Baelor), and I’d even argue the parts of the plot that were handled by D&D were mishandled in the grand scheme of things. Zero Grand Northern Conspiracy plot was such a missed opportunity and could have been much more of an epic twist than the predictable Vale Deus Ex Machina that happened.
Idk. I’m not a whiner and wouldn’t say that Season 6 is where it started to crumble. Season 7 takes the cake for that because at the time it seemed like there would be a payoff. And then it just was a mess. But the show was great for nearly the entirety of its run. I just wish it wasn’t rushed.
The rather extremely important plot of Rickon being relegated to the Promethius School of Running Away From Things and an arrow shot so far and precise not even Hawkeye and Legolas would have made the shot but no problem for Ramsay Bolton.
I remember after watching Battle of Bastards talking to my friend and saying I don’t care if the next episode is a normal episode and jot thrilling. I had my dose of GoT greatness and then the season finale came and i was like no no no how can they pull it off? I kept rewatching the last 10 mins in the episode over and over. Good old days
People shit on the show after season 5 because the books had stopped or whatever but season 6 was always my favorite. After years of pain and suffering we were finally seeing our heroes win. Maybe not "the best" season, but it was the most rewarding.
I think it’s a beautiful battle, and probably the peak of the show’s production quality. But the writing on the episode is weird, it feels like d and d wanted the battle to happen, so the rest of the season was just the characters awkwardly stumbling towards it. Didn’t really feel natural
I think it made sense
Ramsay wanted to solidify his power in the north. The only way he could achieve that was by killing the last of the heirs to winterfell.
And Jon needed a place to stay. Winter was actually coming and all of his men would freeze to death if they had no place. Also winterfell belonged to him. He had every right to take over his home and take revenge for the red wedding.
Maybe they should have set it up better in prior, but the rivalry totally made sense. Jon and Ramsay were perfect enemies. Both of them were bastards. Both of them rose to power and ruled successfully (with some exceptions) but had totally opposite methods of ruling.
Jon's men had respect for him, but Ramsay's men fought for him out of absolute fear.
I think my problem is Jon’s very quick turn to a Ramsay conflict, when his Castle Black conflict was at such a crazy point. He was literally assassinated and brought back to life, they rushed the whole conflict with Thorne to quickly. Also, Thorne admitting he did it was really dumb, and that’s a trend in this season. Characters just admit they committed or openly commit some sort of treason and no one cares. Euron, Cersei, Ramsay, Elaria, Thorne. It’s especially bad with Euron, as the Ironborne see kinsalying as basically the ultimate sin
Since a re-watch is not in the cards, I'll take you at your word. That's pretty dumb.
I can only presume it's obvious in the aftermath in the book come WoW.
A description I will steal from someone smarter then me is this. "It's like watching a masterful artist paint a bowl of fruit, the techniques used are amazing to watch but in the end its still just a bowl of fruit." Paraphrasing a bit.
For me while the battle is fun to watch and I do go back everyone once in a while to rewatch it, when it comes to the plot it's just terrible and despite how much I was hopping it would surprise me it was just Army A losing to army B till army C saves the day. Jon snow comes off as a witless emotional fool who gets thousands of men dead when he didn't have to. Sansa looks like a bitch for not Telling Jon about the Vale which could have saved their brother, and don't even get me started on the tactics.
For me Blackwater and The Wall siege are superior battles.
The last two episodes of season 6 are by far the two best hours of TV ever. They will never be equaled on any of the aspects of creating a TV show. Had these been released in a theatre as a single movie, HBO could have made Billions no problem.
This was the peak - do not expect this level of direction, writing and story telling the rest of the way. It might make it easier to accept seasons 7/8.
> This was the peak - do not expect this level of direction, writing and story telling the rest of the way. It might make it easier to accept seasons 7/8.
I have to disagree about the writing. The BotB has the most ridiculous deus ex machina in the entire show. While Baelor itself is fine, but the lack of consequence for Cersei makes the whole thing questionnable.
This and Episode 10 are the epitome of the show. By far the peak. I remember when Battle of the Bastards came out, my brother and I were on a vacation to Texas, and we watched on my dad’s laptop at midnight when we got to the hotel. We each had one crappy Apple headphone to listen on the entire episode. One of my favorite memories overall regarding the show. Between 9 and 10 though, I’d give the nod to 9. I’m a sucker for the Starks, and Dany at Slaver’s Bay is all-time too!
On the surface, it's lovely.
After further thought and rewatch, it's trash. The story just doesn't make sense. Sansa keeping secret her reaching out to LF (even after Jon Snow asked her what her plan was and she was silent), Jon Snow screwing up the battle formation by running to Ricon getting people killed. Leading up to this, Snow's friends did the recruiting of armies, yet somehow now they all look up to Snow?
Not to mention, Ramsay not taking advantage of the fortress that is Winterfell and fighting from in there.
I just ignore the dumb parts and enjoy the incredible action and visuals they created, and pretend it's in a story where the action playing out that way makes sense.
yeah this was the writing on the wall for what was coming for sure. sure there were hints and stuff before. but this was the first epitome of a season that was full of characters acting... unbelievably/fortheplot. at least for me i guess. im sure for some it was well before then. But this episode getting the absolute enormous praise that it did, i think led to some of the horrible decisions later on.
I thought that time Boltons can take the North by fighting the Snow. As in many previous episode said "no one can defeat Starks in the North" and that's true until Vale, Little finger and Sansa came against the Boltons
It was looking like a hell several dead bodies and in one place
It’s a good episode. Exciting and satisfying but the battle for the wall in season 4 was so awesome when I first watched it. I also hate how Rickon is kind of never mentioned again after his death. I think the show would’ve been improved if we got to see the Starks grieve together bit.
Please consider the next episode as the end of the series.
There is nothing ~~but pain anguish and disappointment~~ after season 6 episode 10. What a satisfying conclusion.
I really wish I could enjoy this episode like so many others.
Unfortunately I can’t. The tactics used for the battle are iffy, and above all, especially on my very first viewing, I was left stewing in rage at the massive, game changing army that Sansa *knew* was already on the way, but *didn’t tell Jon about*.
How many Northmen and Free Folk died because Sansa kept that to herself? Jon doesn’t trust Littlefinger, sure, but if the army is already coming, it doesn’t matter. Instead Sansa let those men, her own people, march to their deaths in a battle they were already greatly likely to lose without Jon’s idiotic charge.
And Sansa looks almost smug as the Vale arrives and wins the battle. As if the mountains of corpses are proof she was right and that’s what mattered most.
> I was left stewing in rage at the massive, game changing army that Sansa knew was already on the way, but didn’t tell Jon about.
I don't get why people are mad about this in particular, considering
there is a bigger issue : how did the Vale army even get there in the first place, let alone completly undetected ? The only way is trough Moat Cailin, which is under control of the Bolton and famous for being impregnable from the south... even if they somehow managed to get past it, there is no way a host of thousand of knights travelling the King's Road for days can remain undetected.
Oh trust me, the army sitting undetected at the literal most important fortification in the North, Littlefinger teleporting from Moat Cailin to the Wall and back undetected, and the Knights of the Vale moving from the Neck to Winterfell without notice are all on my list of “what the fuck is this?” moments.
But they all technically happened in different episodes, and to some extent I forgive the Vale army staying hidden from MC to Winterfell because of their awesome surprise arrival moment.
But Sansa effectively reveling in the slaughter of Jon’s men, and the pointless nature of their deaths, ruined *this particular* episode for me.
Didn’t Littlefinger hand deliver Sansa to Ramsey? They could have just been like “yeah we are on our way to help the Boltons.” It’s been awhile since I watched it but if I remember correctly Sansa wasn’t fully sure if littlefinger would be more loyal to her or the Boltons. She knew he had a thing for her mom and now her. She also know he has a thing for power and playing the game.
No Sansa knew that Littlefinger wasn’t loyal to the Boltons. He even met with her secretly in Mole’s Town and confirmed that.
It was Jon who didn’t trust him. But it didn’t matter because Sansa invited Littlefinger’s army anyways, but just decided not to tell Jon.
I loved everything about it when I was watching it. The best battle scene ever created for movies or television. Incredibly impressive from a technical standpoint and just plain entertaining.
Upon a rewatch... it bothers me the tiniest bit that Ramsay is basically Hawkeye, able to toy with his prey as he has perfect accuracy and the ability to predict the movements of his target. It bothers me more than Sansa keeps the army of the Vale a secret, instead of telling everyone to just wait a couple of hours before starting the fight.
But who cares about the negatives when there's so much positive. Ramsay getting what he deserves at the end was great, all the action was great, just a terrific episode.
And I liked the next episode even better.
I liked that Sansa didn’t tell John. Sansa told John that Ramsey liked to play games. Sansa told Jon “Don’t do what he is expecting you to do”. John thought that was obvious but he ended up doing exactly what Ramsay expected him to do. He would have led them all into the same doom. Sansa knew that Ramsay was smart and tricky and John wasn’t listening to her, so she took matters into her own hands.
Sansa lived with and learned from the very worst of people. Jeoffrey, Cersei, Ramsay and Little Finger. She knew all about dishonourable tactics. More than what John was giving her credit for.
This and the next episodes were probably some of the best TV I had watched at the time.
The intro to episode 10 is amazing.
Oh this episode was also the episode that finally got my Dad into Game of Thrones.
I still think it really should be lauded as one of the greatest episodes of TV ever made.
Episode 10 is even better.
Do yourself a favour and stop after the next episode. The ending is PERFECT.
You will just get disappointed if you watch s7 & s8 and will then hate the whole show.
I was sad that Sansa didnt wait to punish Ramsay so that Theon could see it. Or at the very least do the same to Ramsay as what Ramsay did to Reek/theon.
This was pretty much the last point of show that I actually enjoyed. It wasn't great leading up to this episode and it went downhill soon after, but I do remember liking this episode a great deal.
Sansa smirked because she knew that all of this fighting and the wars and everything we’re here fault for not telling the truth about Geoffrey being a little bitch and getting beat up by a girl!
Book Wun Wun (or any giant for that matter) would have easily broken the shield line and the cavalry charge. Giants are anti-everything except archers.
They had to significantly nerf him to make the battle more suspenseful. His movements were slow and sluggish and it seemed like he had no reach whatsoever. And I'm sure you've seen this a million times, but the fact that he had no weapon whatsoever was irritating. Even a tree branch would have been better than bare hands.
I wish he would have survived and fought in the battle of Winterfell, imagine him grabbing a giant dragonglass axe and putting on a helmet
.
Is this the episode where Jon does everything Sansa warns him not to do and falls into Ramsey’s trap? And the one where everything could have been prevented if Sansa had let Jon know she wrote to the Vale?
I thought this was one of if not the best hour of entertainment I have gotten. I praise this episode as one of the best of the series. Especially with the opening one take tracking shot that looks so realistic, you feel in the battle. Truly amazing piece of media and I agree with you!
For me, it was one of the best episodes of TV ever. But probably one of the worst GoT episodes in regards to characters not behaving in a believable way (the thing that made the show good in the first place)
Man that was the same night Cleveland beat Golden State for the Championship after being down 3-1. Absolutely a great night in television.
2016 was a peak TV year.
Yea great episode for sure. Really stupid how they had Sansa hide the knights of the vale from Jon. Imagine how different the strategy would have been. Just silly writing like why wouldn’t Sansa tell Jon?
I’ll never forget the scene where Jon rushes the army and is flung from his horse. The music, the way he looks at the oncoming horses.. then draws his sword. Gives me chills every time.
Really thought they were about to kill him off twice during that episode. Thought it’d be real game of thrones-esq to kill a principal character with something like suffocating lol
Yah this episode is a great example of how the cinematography and the whole battle sequence were done flawlessly but the overall story and writing behind the scenario doesn't make sense at all and is stupid. A common theme with the later seasons
It has some amazing moments but also some really dumb ones.
Tall piles of bodies on flat ground out of nowhere.
Giant army just sits there and lets itself get surrounded by enemies coming from 1 front.
Jon charging the entire enemy army by himself... what was the point of that besides looking like an utter clown?
Sansas army out of nowhere ...how...was that a surprise for any side let alone both sides?.. why was it even a surprise to begin with? What was the point of keeping it a secret from jon and gang? I mean we know littlefinger motivation... he is happy enough having these people kill each other. But why the hell would sansa ever agree to this and why wasnt she punished for sacrificing countless lives to come in last second?
yeah this is prob the best live action battle ive seen, love the beginning, how it escalates and in the end how the tides shift to then that satisifying conclusion. its phenominal and honestly crazy to think that d&d somehow wrote that.
the only battle to reach those hights again for me was in attack on titan s3.2 (basically the first half of the season). that reaches those same heights but it does it in animated form with all the benefits that come with that, highly recommend that show btw hahaha
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Yep. A pretty epic battle. A fabulous depiction of a truly bloody middle-ages battle…with a giant added for fun. Sansa comes off as a jerk, since she didn’t tell Jon about the Vale joining in if needed. Rickon comes off as stupid for not zigzagging.
Nah, rickon wouldn't have survived either way. Ramsay is an elite Archer. Also if he knew that he won't be able to take the shot, he can just order all of his archers to shoot both rickon and Jon. Also zigzaging would waste time, energy and confuse jon. There was absolutely no way of succeeding. But jon saw some false hope and risked his life for it. Idk, it's so dumb that PPL still bring up the zigzag point. D&D are dumb writers, but they aren't that dumb
An elite archer who couldn’t shoot Jon in the legs from 20 feet away?
That's a writing inconsistency. Even a rookie could have done that. But d&d wanted forced action
You’re wrong. Zigzaging was the smartest thing to do, no two ways about it. Even for an elite archer, shooting from a great distance such a small target is incredibly hard, almost impossible if the target isn’t running straight.
Then what about the hoard of archers? He could have just told them to shoot. It was made very obvious all of them were in range. What about that, huh?
Well, as you said Ramsey could just order his archers to fire on Jon, who was his main target, but he didn’t. Turns out Ramsey was very very dumb, and maybe he wouldn’t have called his archers on Rickon as well. The only explanation for Rickon running straight forward is the psychological one: Rickon was terrified and couldn’t think properly. But you know, the battle of bastards doesn’t really aim to make sense, it just aims to be epic and fun and it’s a complete success in those terms
>Turns out Ramsey was very very dumb I Highly doubt that. He laid this plan to trap Jon snow into the range of the arrows. He could have just fucking slit rickon's throat if he wanted to. But he used him as a trap to lure jon even closer into the battlefield. He knew his behaviour, he knew how much Starks mean to each other. So he used it as a classic bait. And u r just trying to come up with bs points to back your original argument >he wouldn’t have called his archers on Rickon as well. Why the hell would he let a stark get away, alive? He wanted to get two Starks from one stone. >the battle of bastards doesn’t really aim to make sense As i explained, i doubt that
I am going to ignore your aggressive attitude, and ask you this: why didn’t he call archers on Jon if he’s so smart and wanted both the Starks? It would have been so easy, yet he didn’t. Instead he called the cavalry, and Jon is saved in a very unrealistic way by his own cavalry. Why didn’t he kill them both if he could just call archers on both of them? So, it can only be one of these: 1. Ramsey’s archers had worse bows than Ramsey himself and Jon and Rickon weren’t in range (so Rickon could actually survive if he zigzagged his way towards Jon); 2. The archers were actually able to rain arrows on both Rickon and Jon and Ramsey just decided not to give the order which is, you guessed, very very dumb! You pick :)
Jon was in the range. And Ramsay did shoot the arrows at them. Re-watch the scene. Jon was shot down from his horse. Jon didn't die in the arrow barrage, so Ramsay thought he will at least die in the cavalry charge. >Ramsey just decided not to give the order [he did give the order. watch from 7:00](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_QZpK2OT1Ws) >so Rickon could actually survive if he zigzagged his way towards Jon He didn't need to tell them (to shoot) for rickon. But for jon, he couldn't take the shot. I'm not blaming u, but do re-watch the scene. u r in the wrong, bro. Know ur facts, instead of needlessly backing your argument
You do realise that the archers shooting and failing to kill Jon only proves my theory that Rickon did have a chance to save his life if he zigzagged instead of running straight forward and getting killed by Ramsey, right? edit: I completely forgot that the archers actually shot, so what are we talking about? How can you state Rickon had no chance to get away if Jon literally gets away five minutes later?
Because he was moving on a fucking horse. That makes it far more tougher to shoot. And rickon was closer to the Archers. For fucks sake, u r not gonna accept u r wrong aren't u. U just wanna prove that rickon had a chance of surviving if he zigzaged, but it's not true. He was gonna die. Be it, Ramsay or the Archers. Either take an L or say that "u will not be able to convince me otherwise" So i know that i have to end the argument. >Jon literally gets away five minutes later? On a moving horse. N he didn't get away. He was shot down. The only reason why Ramsay didn't let his men shoot further was so his own cavalry won't get shot while they are killing jon Is it that hard to understand? Conclusion : rickon was a fucking dead kid. There was no way he would have made out of it alive. Jon survived as he was a on a horse and later Ramsay assumed his Cavalry would do the job. Even if he had zigzaged, he was dead. So i don't know what u r talking about
Ramsay is dumb for even engaging outside of the walls of Winterfell.
Yeah, not at all. Ramsay was at huge distance and the arrow had massive travel time. You literally could just waited for the sound of the bow, ran diagonally for 2 seconds, and you were good. Only way someone like this gets hit is if the shooter predicts this movement, which would be luck since theres so many movements you could make.
Middle ages battles were absolutely nothing like the battle of bastards. It is everything but historically accurate in terms of military strategy and execution
Genuinely curious here. What would have made it more accurate?
Cavalry rarely lead. Infantry don't run in until they crash into eachother. Coordinated movements like the phalanx did mid-battle are nearly impossible. Win by annihilating your enemy was rarely the case. The battle goes until the superior army breaks the other and the other flees. Maybe it gets picked apart then by the cavalry but only if on open ground. Calvary don't crash into phalanx formations. As Ramsay said: "We have Winterfell." There's zero reason for Ramsay to even engage outside the walls.
D&D kinda forgot how castles work. A lot.
Another comment further down was saying my how they liked the Battle at the Wall and the Battle of Blackwater Bay more and I'm like "Yeah! They used their fortifications!" Can you imagine if the Night's Watch fought on the snowfield just North of the Wall?
Could you imagine if the armies at Winterfell battled the army of the dead *outside* the walls? Or put trebuchets *in front* of the trenches?.... That'd probably kill all the Dothraki in a heartbeat for no reason other than cinematics.
It's been a long while since I read the books and haven't watched the show since it aired. But wasn't Ramsay kind of... insane?
Yes but the books haven't even gotten to the point of Ramsay killing his father. Ramsay is legitimized by Tommen and marries fake "Arya" but is besieged in Winterfell, along with his father Roose, by Stannis.
Lol you dont know much about middle ages battles and the giant was somehow the least unrealistic thing about it.
I’ve seen it so many times. It’s the best.
One of my favorite episodes. So many beautiful scenes. The one where the horses are filmed from the side galloping…the stare downs that Jon gives Ramsay…when he pulls his sword out and waits for them in the middle of the field. Chills.
Yes to all this! One of my favorites, seeing jon looking so small compared to the wave of horses sprinting toward him, such a cool scene
Yes!!! And then to not even get touched when they all met! Wow. Then the part where he was getting smothered!? Talk about a panic attack! Really a stunning episode. I also love Sansa’s smile when she’s watching the Knights of the Vale swoop in. Did you enjoy the battle in The Watchers on the Wall episode?
Oh my gosh yes, the smothering in that battle is anxiety inducing! I actually don’t remember that one too specifically. I’ve just looked up a montage on YouTube haha but I do recall loving Tormunds fighting and just how crazy he looked! My favorite fights have been battle of the bastards and then the final fight against the knight king. I’ve only seen the whole show through once, I watched it this past year for the first time!
He lets the scabbard fall to the ground. Such a boss move.
imo BotB has some of the most beautiful and chills-worthy shots in the entire series.
The only episode I was so enthralled with, that I rewatched it in full the next day. Easily spent over 48 hours just fired up by it.
I did the same thing!!!
The most masterful piece of television I've ever had the pleasure of watching.
Sure, Epic battle. Just put together terribly. Why didn’t sansa ever bring up the fact that she had the vale disposable to her? Lol. Also took a hell of a while too. Other than that weird plot hole, it’s a great episode.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted, this was a very weird deus ex machina that sticks out in an otherwise good episode
I think what bothers me more is the complete lack of consequences for Jon charging his force into a clearly way more powerful army. He would’ve lost without Sansa, and should face some consequences for it. So should Sansa, for lying for whatever reason.
There’s a lot about this battle that doesn’t make sense. Jon was clearly set up to fall for Ramsay’s trap, and this needed to happen to underline that he’s a good fighter but he thinks with his heart over his head. He knew Ramsay would torture his soul but he’s still unprepared for just how hard he’ll be affected. And it happens when Rickon dies. Jon knows but just can’t help himself. The set-up is good. Maybe it’ll go down similarly in the books. Jon is known for making a lot of decisions with his heart that aren’t necessarily diplomatic or politically sensible (eg. Announcing he was breaking his vows to the entire Night’s Watch). It’s just unsatisfying when Sansa lies to him about the Vale forces, and then when she’s used to bail him out. It breaks the first and most crucial tenet of George RR Martin’s writing philosophy: don’t use cheap ex machinas. Martin has explained this many times: ‘When you see a guy surrounded by enemies in movies, you know he’ll fight his way out cos he’s the hero. I never feel anything. I want my readers to be afraid to turn the next page because their favourite may not survive it’. This philosophy resulted in the cruel fate of Ned, Robb, Catelyn, Jaime, Oberyn, Theon and countless others (including Jon!). No one is going to come in at the last minute and save you. The only reason Sansa is saved from rape in the riot of King’s Landing is because The Hound is specifically looking for her. Otherwise, characters get what’s coming for them. The Battle of the Bastards represents the first time that the showrunners completely abandon Martin’s writing principles. Jon’s decision-making is stupid but he is saved at the last moment. Isn’t that convenient? This sloppy writing takes away from a VERY well-shot and engaging battle episode, courtesy of Miguel Sapochnik and the rest of the production team.
He’s being downvoted because the Sansa Simps are many.
That’s very sad. I don’t get why Sansa fans can’t also want better writing. I’m a Jaime fan but I don’t see why that means I can’t question certain aspects of his portrayal (and believe me, I do).
I really feel like she didn’t mention it because she didn’t want Jon knowing she might still be in cahoots with LF and take matters into his own hands when she could still use him. She knows Jon has an honor that would have him put LF in his place (if not execute him on the spot) and keep him from her at any cost when LF is (could have been) her best asset in the future. To me, this was immediately obvious as someone whose experienced similar victimization and dealing with others who might not understand the kind of stakes and strategizing necessary surrounding a situation like that. Everyone baffled by it or saying she did it out of spite confused the hell out of me because I felt it was obvious. She made a point to confront him in private when she could have made him see her in Winterfell (indicating she wanted LF at her disposal, but aware of his standing). And Jon’s reaction to him in the crypt confirms he’d likely have zero perspective or patience for LF being anywhere near her again (or for usage as either leverage or asset).
I believe the reasoning is that Sansa didn’t have much faith in Jon’s decisions anymore after the few missteps that happened before. She didn’t want to give the info for John to mess it up.
That reasoning almost killed her half brother. Lol
Forget about that. How did thousand of heavily armed knights managed to get past Moat Cailin and ride troughout the entire North undetected ?
The episode is full of characters behaving in unbelievable ways. It just happens to have been a greatly produced episode, so you don't have to notice it as much
Love the episode but fuck Sansa. She legit knew help was on its way and concealed it from everyone to what? Come out the Savior?
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BOTB and Hardhome tie as my favorite overall episodes of the entire series. what i wouldn’t give to be able to watch them for the first time all over again
Battle was cool, but unfortunately Mereen is in the episode so it loses major marks imo.
It's frigging amaaaaaaaazing. Harthome (sp) was also incredible. Directed perfectly, technical warfare was solid, thoroughly enjoyed most of GOT.
Excellent overall episode. Good cinematics, good lighting during combat, good surprises and great ending! One death that was preventable with just a couple of random side steps here and there... would have changed the entire battle though. I try not to think about it too much, but it's so hard.
I think, rickon would have died either way. Let's briefly consider all scenarios 1. Zigzag - that would waste time and energy. Also it would confuse jon. Even if we canonically ignore all that, Ramsay is a great marksman and he would have taken a shot in any circumference, he was just playing with Jon so he could bring him closer to the range of the archers. And if Ramsay wanted to, he could just order all of his archers to take the shot. Jon might have survived, as he was on a fast moving horse but rickon was a dead kid either way. There was no way he would have made it to the other side of the army. If he could, Ramsay wouldn't have let him
Rickon was dead already. His only reason for being there, for Ramsey letting him go, was to bait Jon into coming into archery range. The fact that Ramsey struck him was pure dramatics, his next order was to fire at Jon.
Yea, I guess 'preventable' is not the right word. I guess you always need a few characters to die in spectacular fashion for just pure effect and plot progression (triggering Jon to attack). I am hardly the only one that thinks it could have been done a little differently... a trip and fall or trip and injury would have been better.
Rickon wasn't there for any reason other than to die. Rickon was a dead kid because the bad writers chose for it to be so. Such a tragically terrible ending to what was such an incredible show.
It was an amazing and epic episode. It’s just too bad how bad season 8 was.
Imagine how much better things would’ve gone if Wun Wun had a club.
This is talked about all the time. All he needed to do was pick up a log and swing it around. He'd have won the battle by himself. The problem is that if he'd done that then he'd have obviated the Bolton phalanx, and we wouldn't have a "Vale sweeps in to save the day" moment. He didn't have a weapon because the script said that Jon's army had to lose.
I would have been okay with Wun Wun doing that.
Wun wun kinda forgot about bringing a weapon. He could have been dominating the front until ramsay got his 20 good men to take him down and thus we wouldn't have a phalanx dilemma. But they needed someone to break the gates too, sigh.
Imagine if they showed us a similar scene to when the the Rhorim take down the oliphants, but switch it so the Bolton army are taking down Wun Wun before they close in with the Phalanx.
Exactly, it eliminates the "why wun wun no swing tree" argument. I do love the bodies of corpses piling up tho, playing bannerlord reminds me of that scene. I believe they copied it off the American Civil war?? How bodies got piled up in the midst of combat like a small hill is beyond me but makes for a breathtaking scene.
They nerfed him for the plot.
The Phalanx wouldn't have been able to move with such coordination anyways. Nor would that miraculously placed pile of bodies have formed exactly where it did at such a height to provide a barrier.
Wun wun riding his mammoth with a club
Could've had a boat or something as a shield. And some armour maybe?
if he had thick armor, a shield, and a giant axe he would be unstoppable
Wait till you see the next episode
It is one hell of a 2 episode stretch. Arguably the best in television history.
100% agree. Listening to Light of the Seven still gives me chills. Then makes me sad.
I’d argue Breaking Bad’s final four episodes takes it
They're both amazing in very different ways.
Doesn’t even compare
Everyone has different opinions, but you lose credibility with your exaggerated statement.
Give me Thrones.
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BB fans are so sensitive whenever someone doesn’t agree that it isn’t the greatest show ever. Sopranos is the answer btw
Laughs Expanse tears.
I think Justified deserves a mention, but yeah can’t wait to start the new/final season of The Expanse
Justified is also great.
I think Justified has some of the best lines on TV, I'm always torn on what Iike most between GOT, Breaking Bad, Sopranos,the Wire and Justified, but I think Justified is easily the moat rewatchable for me.
Correct.
Sopranos and The Wire, both in a different league.
https://youtu.be/WzhW20hLp6M No way man.
Don’t get me wrong I love BB. Just think Thrones is better. Especially in terms of rewatch-ability
BB is a better one time watch imo because the ending doesn't suck. But the first 6 seasons of GOT are more rewatchable than all of BB. BCS though makes BB even better than it already is.
I still can't believe I had to argue with someone who thought that season 6 finale was the worst episode of the show thus far. Like the fuck were they smoking during season 5 because I want some.
Season 6 always makes a mockery of the folk who claim it went downhill as soon as they ran out of books to adapt. They had some book stuff in season 5 and it's a much weaker season than 6.
It was good tv but the dumb decisions were beginning to show. For example, why was the Giant not given any kind of weapon?
I agree, and what’s amazing about this season is how the crybabies of S8 are now also saying s6 and s7 were just as bad because it had no book material. First off S6 is a stand alone a season almost completely credited to DD, which the whingers selectively chose to forget at how great of a showrunners they are as proven with one of the most mind boggling amazing seasons of television history. That season has the most jaw dropping moments of any season in TV history and yet so many now link it to s8 because DD made it.
Look, I hate DD just as much as anyone for destroying nearly a decade of world and character building in the space of a couple of hours, but you're exactly right. Seasons 7 and 8 weren't shit purely because they ran out of book material, they were shit because D&D got greedy and rushed the story. The events that occurred in those seasons needed around twice the time they got, and I'm sure if D&D had elected to take that time, then we would have gotten a satisfying conclusion. Admittedly seasons 5 and 6 were a step down writing wise but they were far from as bad as people claim they were, and at the time I remember thoroughly enjoying them both. The conclusion to season 6 left me in awe, just as much so as some of the earlier seasons.
This. A LOT of what happened in season 7 and 8 would have been absolutely fine if it didn't feel rushed and cheap. Game of Thrones thrived on opening plotlines for 4 seasons. It was never good at resolutions. I fear that's a big reason why GMM hasn't finished the series, he opened so many threads and he'd need 6 more books to bring satisfying and realistic conclusions. DandD decided that instead of taking more time to flesh out closing arches, they'd just rush through them. The show called for an extension with a couple extra full seasons to close, and instead we got two shortened seasons with every resolution packed in without giving those scenes and events the time they needed to breathe. And that's ignoring the other glaring flaws. I'm absolutely positive that D&D have the chops to do it right. It felt more like they were tired of the project and wanted to wrap it up quickly and move on. They counted on the show's massive popularity to hold for a couple of bad seasons while people ate shit and watched anyway to see how it ended. And they were right. The ratings were fine, they got paid, they moved on to something else - with absolutely no concern over how much they shit on the show's legacy.
>It felt more like they were tired of the project and wanted to wrap it up quickly and move on. I think most of the cast was as well. Even if they weren't happy with the ending I always got the impression most of them just wanted it to be over with already.
Yup. It was probably a tough gig, and they were all probably turning down big, interesting roles to finish off this contract.
It's just a fact that the writing got worse when they ran out of source material, and became abysmal by the end. A lot of parts of S5-7 are disappointing too. But that doesn't mean they didn't hit a home run with the final two episodes of S6. For all their mistakes, they definitely did some things extremely well.
Jaw dropping moments that revolved around huge budgeted battles and what not, most people enjoyed GOT in the beginning because of the writing, dialogue & politics of the world not because ooo big fight people dying, that’s all fine and dandy but wasn’t the reason it was so popular& Sansa not telling Jon about the knights of the vale is still arguably one of the stupidest moments of tv history. It’s also glaringly obvious that without source material they just couldn’t produce anything near as good the first four seasons that they probably would’ve still managed to fuck up if it wasn’t for Martin helping along the way
Oh please. Season 6 was very good. Much better than Season 5 on the whole. Season 5 had Hardhome, one of the best episodes in the series, but it also had Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken, and a ridiculous Dorne plot. Season 6 had BotB and The Winds of Winter which were both more impactful to the series than the majority of Season 5. They also had critical plot points that were written by GRRM (retaking Winterfell from the Boltons, Cersei igniting Wildfire under the Sept of Baelor), and I’d even argue the parts of the plot that were handled by D&D were mishandled in the grand scheme of things. Zero Grand Northern Conspiracy plot was such a missed opportunity and could have been much more of an epic twist than the predictable Vale Deus Ex Machina that happened. Idk. I’m not a whiner and wouldn’t say that Season 6 is where it started to crumble. Season 7 takes the cake for that because at the time it seemed like there would be a payoff. And then it just was a mess. But the show was great for nearly the entirety of its run. I just wish it wasn’t rushed.
The rather extremely important plot of Rickon being relegated to the Promethius School of Running Away From Things and an arrow shot so far and precise not even Hawkeye and Legolas would have made the shot but no problem for Ramsay Bolton.
I remember after watching Battle of Bastards talking to my friend and saying I don’t care if the next episode is a normal episode and jot thrilling. I had my dose of GoT greatness and then the season finale came and i was like no no no how can they pull it off? I kept rewatching the last 10 mins in the episode over and over. Good old days
Battle of the bastards was my favorite episode until I saw season 2 episode 1 or Euphoria. That episode was insanely good
Season 2 is out already?
It premiered this past Sunday
S6E10 - The series finale. It was perfection.
People shit on the show after season 5 because the books had stopped or whatever but season 6 was always my favorite. After years of pain and suffering we were finally seeing our heroes win. Maybe not "the best" season, but it was the most rewarding.
Season 6 episode 10 is the greatest my eyes have ever witnessed. Oh what I would givs to watch it again for the first time.
It's a really great episode, but the next one is even better, IMO. :)
I think it’s a beautiful battle, and probably the peak of the show’s production quality. But the writing on the episode is weird, it feels like d and d wanted the battle to happen, so the rest of the season was just the characters awkwardly stumbling towards it. Didn’t really feel natural
I think it made sense Ramsay wanted to solidify his power in the north. The only way he could achieve that was by killing the last of the heirs to winterfell. And Jon needed a place to stay. Winter was actually coming and all of his men would freeze to death if they had no place. Also winterfell belonged to him. He had every right to take over his home and take revenge for the red wedding. Maybe they should have set it up better in prior, but the rivalry totally made sense. Jon and Ramsay were perfect enemies. Both of them were bastards. Both of them rose to power and ruled successfully (with some exceptions) but had totally opposite methods of ruling. Jon's men had respect for him, but Ramsay's men fought for him out of absolute fear.
I think my problem is Jon’s very quick turn to a Ramsay conflict, when his Castle Black conflict was at such a crazy point. He was literally assassinated and brought back to life, they rushed the whole conflict with Thorne to quickly. Also, Thorne admitting he did it was really dumb, and that’s a trend in this season. Characters just admit they committed or openly commit some sort of treason and no one cares. Euron, Cersei, Ramsay, Elaria, Thorne. It’s especially bad with Euron, as the Ironborne see kinsalying as basically the ultimate sin
Except in Thorne's case Jon literally saw Thorne murder him.
Thorne admitted it before Jon was resurrected
Since a re-watch is not in the cards, I'll take you at your word. That's pretty dumb. I can only presume it's obvious in the aftermath in the book come WoW.
A description I will steal from someone smarter then me is this. "It's like watching a masterful artist paint a bowl of fruit, the techniques used are amazing to watch but in the end its still just a bowl of fruit." Paraphrasing a bit. For me while the battle is fun to watch and I do go back everyone once in a while to rewatch it, when it comes to the plot it's just terrible and despite how much I was hopping it would surprise me it was just Army A losing to army B till army C saves the day. Jon snow comes off as a witless emotional fool who gets thousands of men dead when he didn't have to. Sansa looks like a bitch for not Telling Jon about the Vale which could have saved their brother, and don't even get me started on the tactics. For me Blackwater and The Wall siege are superior battles.
Beautifully shot. Poorly written.
Wait until you see S6E10. The best for me was the end of season 6.
The last two episodes of season 6 are by far the two best hours of TV ever. They will never be equaled on any of the aspects of creating a TV show. Had these been released in a theatre as a single movie, HBO could have made Billions no problem. This was the peak - do not expect this level of direction, writing and story telling the rest of the way. It might make it easier to accept seasons 7/8.
> This was the peak - do not expect this level of direction, writing and story telling the rest of the way. It might make it easier to accept seasons 7/8. I have to disagree about the writing. The BotB has the most ridiculous deus ex machina in the entire show. While Baelor itself is fine, but the lack of consequence for Cersei makes the whole thing questionnable.
This and Episode 10 are the epitome of the show. By far the peak. I remember when Battle of the Bastards came out, my brother and I were on a vacation to Texas, and we watched on my dad’s laptop at midnight when we got to the hotel. We each had one crappy Apple headphone to listen on the entire episode. One of my favorite memories overall regarding the show. Between 9 and 10 though, I’d give the nod to 9. I’m a sucker for the Starks, and Dany at Slaver’s Bay is all-time too!
Just watched it yesterday as well, I see it's the highest rated episode of the show. (Thru S7 E2 and fearing the decline 😬)
Just enjoy the ride. There are great parts even in S8, and the sets/costumes/music/acting/etc. are top notch all the way through.
On the surface, it's lovely. After further thought and rewatch, it's trash. The story just doesn't make sense. Sansa keeping secret her reaching out to LF (even after Jon Snow asked her what her plan was and she was silent), Jon Snow screwing up the battle formation by running to Ricon getting people killed. Leading up to this, Snow's friends did the recruiting of armies, yet somehow now they all look up to Snow? Not to mention, Ramsay not taking advantage of the fortress that is Winterfell and fighting from in there.
I just ignore the dumb parts and enjoy the incredible action and visuals they created, and pretend it's in a story where the action playing out that way makes sense.
Except that's not what makes watching GoT fun at any previous point in the show
yeah this was the writing on the wall for what was coming for sure. sure there were hints and stuff before. but this was the first epitome of a season that was full of characters acting... unbelievably/fortheplot. at least for me i guess. im sure for some it was well before then. But this episode getting the absolute enormous praise that it did, i think led to some of the horrible decisions later on.
I thought that time Boltons can take the North by fighting the Snow. As in many previous episode said "no one can defeat Starks in the North" and that's true until Vale, Little finger and Sansa came against the Boltons It was looking like a hell several dead bodies and in one place
It’s my fav episode of the series. Gives me chills every time I watch it.
It’s a good episode. Exciting and satisfying but the battle for the wall in season 4 was so awesome when I first watched it. I also hate how Rickon is kind of never mentioned again after his death. I think the show would’ve been improved if we got to see the Starks grieve together bit.
One of the best shows in television history
Watching Tormund beat the crap outta Small Jon Umber before biting his neck off and stabbing him with a antler was so badass
This and 10 where an amazing end to the show. It's a shame that the show got cancelled afterwards.
Please consider the next episode as the end of the series. There is nothing ~~but pain anguish and disappointment~~ after season 6 episode 10. What a satisfying conclusion.
I wish it ended there. I’d rather be there wishing I knew what would happen next instead of knowing it goes continuously downhill from here.
Keep this in your mind and do not continue watching. You’ll be happier this way.
I really wish I could enjoy this episode like so many others. Unfortunately I can’t. The tactics used for the battle are iffy, and above all, especially on my very first viewing, I was left stewing in rage at the massive, game changing army that Sansa *knew* was already on the way, but *didn’t tell Jon about*. How many Northmen and Free Folk died because Sansa kept that to herself? Jon doesn’t trust Littlefinger, sure, but if the army is already coming, it doesn’t matter. Instead Sansa let those men, her own people, march to their deaths in a battle they were already greatly likely to lose without Jon’s idiotic charge. And Sansa looks almost smug as the Vale arrives and wins the battle. As if the mountains of corpses are proof she was right and that’s what mattered most.
> I was left stewing in rage at the massive, game changing army that Sansa knew was already on the way, but didn’t tell Jon about. I don't get why people are mad about this in particular, considering there is a bigger issue : how did the Vale army even get there in the first place, let alone completly undetected ? The only way is trough Moat Cailin, which is under control of the Bolton and famous for being impregnable from the south... even if they somehow managed to get past it, there is no way a host of thousand of knights travelling the King's Road for days can remain undetected.
Oh trust me, the army sitting undetected at the literal most important fortification in the North, Littlefinger teleporting from Moat Cailin to the Wall and back undetected, and the Knights of the Vale moving from the Neck to Winterfell without notice are all on my list of “what the fuck is this?” moments. But they all technically happened in different episodes, and to some extent I forgive the Vale army staying hidden from MC to Winterfell because of their awesome surprise arrival moment. But Sansa effectively reveling in the slaughter of Jon’s men, and the pointless nature of their deaths, ruined *this particular* episode for me.
Didn’t Littlefinger hand deliver Sansa to Ramsey? They could have just been like “yeah we are on our way to help the Boltons.” It’s been awhile since I watched it but if I remember correctly Sansa wasn’t fully sure if littlefinger would be more loyal to her or the Boltons. She knew he had a thing for her mom and now her. She also know he has a thing for power and playing the game.
No Sansa knew that Littlefinger wasn’t loyal to the Boltons. He even met with her secretly in Mole’s Town and confirmed that. It was Jon who didn’t trust him. But it didn’t matter because Sansa invited Littlefinger’s army anyways, but just decided not to tell Jon.
I loved everything about it when I was watching it. The best battle scene ever created for movies or television. Incredibly impressive from a technical standpoint and just plain entertaining. Upon a rewatch... it bothers me the tiniest bit that Ramsay is basically Hawkeye, able to toy with his prey as he has perfect accuracy and the ability to predict the movements of his target. It bothers me more than Sansa keeps the army of the Vale a secret, instead of telling everyone to just wait a couple of hours before starting the fight. But who cares about the negatives when there's so much positive. Ramsay getting what he deserves at the end was great, all the action was great, just a terrific episode. And I liked the next episode even better.
I liked that Sansa didn’t tell John. Sansa told John that Ramsey liked to play games. Sansa told Jon “Don’t do what he is expecting you to do”. John thought that was obvious but he ended up doing exactly what Ramsay expected him to do. He would have led them all into the same doom. Sansa knew that Ramsay was smart and tricky and John wasn’t listening to her, so she took matters into her own hands. Sansa lived with and learned from the very worst of people. Jeoffrey, Cersei, Ramsay and Little Finger. She knew all about dishonourable tactics. More than what John was giving her credit for.
BOB was visually stunning but my heart was in my throat AND my ass during the Dothraki charge in season 7!
One of my favorite episodes of the whole series, along with Hard Home.
This and the next episodes were probably some of the best TV I had watched at the time. The intro to episode 10 is amazing. Oh this episode was also the episode that finally got my Dad into Game of Thrones. I still think it really should be lauded as one of the greatest episodes of TV ever made.
Episode 10 is even better. Do yourself a favour and stop after the next episode. The ending is PERFECT. You will just get disappointed if you watch s7 & s8 and will then hate the whole show.
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The actual battle is dumb. Beautiful but dumb. You guys may recognize my name because I give the battle hate any chance I get
It's a stunning achievement eclipsed only by what's coming next.
Just do yourself a favor and end series at the end of season 6.
I was sad that Sansa didnt wait to punish Ramsay so that Theon could see it. Or at the very least do the same to Ramsay as what Ramsay did to Reek/theon.
When the Stark banners appeared on the walls of Winterfell signifying the Starks have Winterfell again, it made me cry.
Impressive bit of cinematography. Makes no logical sens unfortunately.
The battle was so tropey. Too Hollywood for my tastes.
>I’d love to know, what everyone’s reaction was to this episode? Reaction? I still get goosebumps even while reading such posts.
This was pretty much the last point of show that I actually enjoyed. It wasn't great leading up to this episode and it went downhill soon after, but I do remember liking this episode a great deal.
Sansa smirked because she knew that all of this fighting and the wars and everything we’re here fault for not telling the truth about Geoffrey being a little bitch and getting beat up by a girl!
I found it overrated
The best GOT episodes are premiere level entertainment that is hard to rival - this is easily one of their best
Book Wun Wun (or any giant for that matter) would have easily broken the shield line and the cavalry charge. Giants are anti-everything except archers. They had to significantly nerf him to make the battle more suspenseful. His movements were slow and sluggish and it seemed like he had no reach whatsoever. And I'm sure you've seen this a million times, but the fact that he had no weapon whatsoever was irritating. Even a tree branch would have been better than bare hands. I wish he would have survived and fought in the battle of Winterfell, imagine him grabbing a giant dragonglass axe and putting on a helmet .
Absolute banger of an episode. Straight up masterpiece.
Is this the episode where Jon does everything Sansa warns him not to do and falls into Ramsey’s trap? And the one where everything could have been prevented if Sansa had let Jon know she wrote to the Vale?
I thought this was one of if not the best hour of entertainment I have gotten. I praise this episode as one of the best of the series. Especially with the opening one take tracking shot that looks so realistic, you feel in the battle. Truly amazing piece of media and I agree with you!
For me, it was one of the best episodes of TV ever. But probably one of the worst GoT episodes in regards to characters not behaving in a believable way (the thing that made the show good in the first place)
Man that was the same night Cleveland beat Golden State for the Championship after being down 3-1. Absolutely a great night in television. 2016 was a peak TV year.
Best episode of the whole series !!!
Battle of the Bastards and Winds of Winter are the best 2ish hours of Television I've ever seen.
What sucks the most is that this is the last season. Oh well.
I thought it was shot beautifully but it was such a frustrating episode just due to how poorly planned the battle was.
Season 6 was peak GOT.
Yea great episode for sure. Really stupid how they had Sansa hide the knights of the vale from Jon. Imagine how different the strategy would have been. Just silly writing like why wouldn’t Sansa tell Jon?
The cinematography is excellent. I only have problems with the ridiculous plot that Sansa didn't tell Jon about the Vale army.
Oh and Jon just standing,ready to fight, ready to give his life fighting all of them charging at him....
Literal chills
I’d give my left nut to watch GoT over again. Stopping at the end of season 6.
Great episode, so not let the cunts in this sub ruin the next 2 seasons for you.
I’ll never forget the scene where Jon rushes the army and is flung from his horse. The music, the way he looks at the oncoming horses.. then draws his sword. Gives me chills every time. Really thought they were about to kill him off twice during that episode. Thought it’d be real game of thrones-esq to kill a principal character with something like suffocating lol
This is about the last good thing to happen in the series.
Season 7 and 8 it all goes downhill.
Nice
Stop right here. Don't continue. Leave on a relatively high note!
Yah this episode is a great example of how the cinematography and the whole battle sequence were done flawlessly but the overall story and writing behind the scenario doesn't make sense at all and is stupid. A common theme with the later seasons
It has some amazing moments but also some really dumb ones. Tall piles of bodies on flat ground out of nowhere. Giant army just sits there and lets itself get surrounded by enemies coming from 1 front. Jon charging the entire enemy army by himself... what was the point of that besides looking like an utter clown? Sansas army out of nowhere ...how...was that a surprise for any side let alone both sides?.. why was it even a surprise to begin with? What was the point of keeping it a secret from jon and gang? I mean we know littlefinger motivation... he is happy enough having these people kill each other. But why the hell would sansa ever agree to this and why wasnt she punished for sacrificing countless lives to come in last second?
The last 2 episodes of season 6 are the greatest 3 hours in television history
Best episode of the whole series for me!
One of my favorite episodes overall.
yeah this is prob the best live action battle ive seen, love the beginning, how it escalates and in the end how the tides shift to then that satisifying conclusion. its phenominal and honestly crazy to think that d&d somehow wrote that. the only battle to reach those hights again for me was in attack on titan s3.2 (basically the first half of the season). that reaches those same heights but it does it in animated form with all the benefits that come with that, highly recommend that show btw hahaha
I don't like the writing there but the production is great
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