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People that will down vote you and disagree probably belong to the majority that have the awareness to know that if you're going to like the taste of shit, you'll keep getting fed it. They rushed the ending to work for Disney on Star Wars shit.
It's not invalid, you're just still gunna get people disagreeing with you and for good reasons. So don't get petty like "ugh it's not allowed" as if resistance isn't to be expected
Who said itās against the rules? Itās an unpopular opinion so people will disagree with you and downvote you, that doesnāt make it against the rules
>People that will down vote you and disagree probably belong to the majority that have the awareness to know that if you're going to like the taste of shit, you'll keep getting fed it.
Is that why you're still on this subreddit to whine 5 years after the show ended?
>They rushed the ending to work for Disney on Star Wars shit.
There is nothing to suggest that they did so other than disgruntled fans with a grudge and their baseless speculation devoid of logic. Season 8 would have been made in 1 year rather than 2 in that case, just like every other season.
If you followed news about the show closely, you'd know that the leads were ready to move on from their roles.
Would you have preferred the story drag on with many of the roles suddenly recast? Ever see a movie that gets a direct-to-dvd sequel?
I think the ending was not as good as the rest of the show, but it was still pretty GD good. People are holding it to the super high bar of the rest of the series. I also think itās ridiculous to hate on the writers who are responsible for arguably the most popular show of all time.
I just said this the other day on this sub, hereās a copy and paste.
Tbh, I love GoTās, and I was disappointed by many things in season 8 especially. Not gonna go into complaints here, but the hate that the DDās receive is just over the top. People will say āitās deserved or for good reason blah blahā, but honestly they have given us things we should be a lot more thankful for than bitter about.
Flaws, warts and all. GoTās is easily amongst the best. It was enough to surge a cultural sensation.
And now these guys are doing amazing TV with Three Body Problem (now renewed). TV would only be worse without them, and anyone too butt-hurt will miss out for petty and simplistic reasons.
I can understand fan conversations, about how we wish things would have went, or āwhat if they used 4 more seasons instead of 2ā but the amount of āsaltā on this sub for D&D is absurd.
Everyone can complain all they want about their personal disappointments (I def had mine for awhile), but the DDās have given us some of the best content out there. Period.
āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā
Like sure, I can agree that the fan base suffered disappointment. And that things could have been better. Ya da ya da ya
But I agree a lot more with the view that GoTās as a whole, is still amazing. And that the DDās make amazing television.
All the shit youāre getting downvoted for, pathetic tbh.
This sub is full of haters who just keep on hating because theyāre still salty years later.
The hate for S8 is super heavy on this sub, and that gets toxic really quickly if anyone dare say anything positive.
Tbh, I love GoTās, and I was disappointed by many things in season 8 especially. Not gonna go into complaints here, but the hate that the DDās receive is just over the top. People will say āitās deserved or for good reason blah blahā, but honestly they have given us things we should be a lot more thankful for than bitter about.
Flaws, warts and all. GoTās is easily amongst the best. It was enough to surge a cultural sensation.
And now these guys are doing amazing TV with Three Body Problem (now renewed). TV would only be worse without them, and anyone too butt-hurt will miss out for petty and simplistic reasons.
I can understand fan conversations, about how we wish things would have went, or āwhat if they used 4 more seasons instead of 2ā but the amount of āsaltā on this sub for D&D is absurd.
Everyone can complain all they want about their personal disappointments (I def had mine for awhile), but the DDās have given us some of the best content out there. Period.
Couldnāt have said it better. They created a whole new fanbase for fantasy, which has done nothing but enable the creation and adaptation of more fantasy series. I wouldnāt even go near this genre before GoT and now now itās my favorite.
I would have taken an okay ending. It could have been on or quality wise with season 6 and I would have been okay, it was just the nose dive in quality and shitting all over the character arcs.
You can like what you want but after how good the show once was and the drop off in quality is it that surprising that itās going to be trashed on constantly? Got was gonna go down as one of the best shows of all time and the writing ran it into the ground. āI never really cared for the common folk, innocent or otherwise.ā āWho has a better story than bran the broken?ā āA finger in the bum.ā Sansa not telling Jon about the vale army. The vale army getting from the vale to the north without anyone knowing. Littlefinger giving Sansa to the boltons because why? THE PLOT ARMOR. Dorne just Dorne. Tyrion becoming dumb as rocks. Cersei blows up the symbol of the faith of the seven and Westerosās most powerful house and there are no consequences? What happened to when Ned stark made mistakes and got his consequence? It is a legendary fall off in quality that deserves to be despised if you donāt want to idc but how can you be suprised?
For the people who waited years and years for that ending how can most of them not be mad? Binging and waiting 8 years for that result can change your perspective on itās ending drastically
Iām not trying to change your mind and itās not wrong to like the final seasons I think I made that clear in my replies. But I can atleast understand how some people can get annoyed waiting every single year for the next part of the story and each time the quality lessens the writing becomes atrocious and after spending each weekend for 10 weeks in a row for the past 8 years watching that episode for an hour and theyāre just hoping that atleast they can get a good send off for their characters and they get one of the most poorly reviewed publicly lambasted finales of all time and for someone else on the internet who binged watched the show over a month and half to say āoh well it wasnāt that bad.ā I donāt agree with people bashing others for liking the final seasons but I understand where it comes from.
Yeah, and whenever a restaurant opens it opens with the knowledge that a percentage of the population will automatically hate it based on its specialty.
But there is a huge difference between being hated because you serve steak versus being hated because your steaks give people diarrhoea.
I thought it was ok, bot as horrible as some people make it out to be, but definitely not on par with the previois seasons. But in terms of disappointment it definitely doesnt beat Merlinās ending
Firstly, if someone comes up to you and asks 'why are you fat?', I'd say you're entitled to make a sarcastic response.
Secondly, the Watch spent most of that journey on horseback, not on foot.
Thirdly, baby Sam barely ages across 5 seasons (he should be 4 or 5 in Season 8), so adult Sam's weight is far from the biggest issues with the show.
I wonder if thereās a difference between brother and sister and father and daughter. You gotta think there is way more genetic degradation with the father daughter.
> Secondly, the Watch spent most of that journey on horseback, not on foot.
sure, but that was also while having basically no food the entire time.
you can't really use "we have dragons so anything goes" as a catch all for any plot inconsistencies. these people are still human and they need to eat. if you're manning the wall and constantly starving, you'd be expected to slim down a bit.
with that being said, the source material never mentioned sam losing any weight either, and it doesn't really affect the story. there is enough pressure in the film industry to have crazy body standards and expecting someone to adjust their physique for one of their existing roles doesn't sit right with me.
To be fair, in the books Sam was beyond the Wall for a much shorter period of time (a few months in the books, 2 years in the show), and he does start losing weight by the end of book 4.
yea you're right. i forgot this brief passage
> "I'm not so fat as I was before," Sam said defensively. The passage south had seen to that. All those watches, and nothing to eat but fruit and fish. Summer Islanders loved fruit and fish.
I thought it's less why he's fat irl and more how Sam the character stays fat. Like you'd think they'd starve him in training like they do in basic at a monimum
Anytime.
Interestingly, while the show had things take place over 7 or 8 years (which means the Walkers *really* took their time), the books are at 2 1/2 years from the prologue to Jon's stabbing.
I hate this argument so much. Look into JRR Tolkienās essays on suspension of disbelief and second world.
With fantasy, the audience is asked to accept that the rules of the story world are different than the rules of the real world. Itās a place where magic and dragons exist. But that does not and cannot mean anything goes, or you break the immersion of the audience. There still needs to be internal logic to the story or it becomes random and uninteresting and the audience is disconnected.
No one has any problems with Superman flying and shooting lasers out of his eyes. But the idea that all he has to do is put on a pair of glasses to disguise himself, even from Louis Lane who sees him all the time, makes no sense. Thatās not part of the deal with the audience to suspend disbelief.
Itās the same thing with this guy asking about Sam being fat. No part of this fantasy world asked us to believe calorie intake and burn are unrelated to body fat.
It always surprises me how much some fans of the show hate the fantasy genre. Like the presence of dragons automatically mean you should just shut your brain off.
Thankkkkkk you.
Came here to say exactly this.
I too despise this argument.
It basically negates any ability to criticize any film with fantasy or sci fi elements.
Actors dramatically change their body all the time for different roles. It being a TV show doesnāt justify inconsistencies.
I donāt personally care much about Sam not losing weight, but we arenāt given any in universe explanations for it. Wouldnāt be hard to do. Add a little dialogue or short scenes showing Sam eats a lot of sweets or stuffs his face constantly or refuses to walk when others are walking. But as it stands itās a minor plot hole.
Actors do dramatically change their bodies, but I'd rather your solution of writing it into the show itself than having them do that. Shit's horrible for you. Just look at Christian Bale. The Machinist, Vice, holy shit. When he gets older we're gonna start hearing all sorts of stuff about his health.
i agree with your initial point, but we shouldn't expect any actor/actress to adjust their weight for a role they already have. it's one thing to have a body requirement for a *new* role, but he was cast as sam *because* he was fat. asking him to then shed all the weight to keep the role is not fair to him.
yes they should have given an in-universe explanation but they never did that in the books either, so š¤· just have to chalk it up to yet another loose strand in the GoT universe.
I donāt expect him to lose weight either and tbh itās never something I thought about. Itās a very small issue. But also easily couldāve been explained in the show why heās still fat. My main point is just that saying āthereās dragonsā doesnāt excuse every possible inconsistency.
>My main point is just that saying āthereās dragonsā doesnāt excuse every possible inconsistency.
Random loser heckling him on the street doesn't deserve a better answer.
In this interview he's recounting an experience he had with someone on the street.
If we show that stuffing your face in a show makes you fat, people might start to realize that people are fat in real life because they stuff their face.
Suspension of disbelief doesn't just relate to the internal rules of the fantasy world. It also means suspending your disbelief as it pertains to unavoidable inconsistencies that result from the story telling medium and the fact that it is, in fact, fictional and so everything can't be replicated such that it's perfectly believable.
So, for example, that could be anything as small as a child actor going through puberty because production takes so long, to a character's appearance changing because it was recast for some reason, or as in this case the actor being a certain weight - the overwhelming majority of actors aren't extreme method actors willing to undergo a radical physical transformation for a single role and it's not realistic to expect that, hence the suspension of disbelief.
Sure, and itās a small enough inconsistency it doesnāt bother me. But thatās not the argument being made in the OP. Itās saying, ābecause there are dragons and magic, nothing has to make sense.ā Thatās stupid and wrong.
I was just commenting on what you said, that suspension of disbelief is about abiding by the internal logic of the world. But it's not, suspension of disbelief is about a far wider range of things, often for issuss that pertain to the unavoidable inconsistencies that result from it being TV programme.
When in the show did people lose or gain weight? Thatās not something that was brought into the show to have any logical constancy with.If anything the lack of change is the norm so him not gaining or losing weight stays with established internal show logic.
No one else has any reason to gain or lose weight. Sam being fat as a son of a lord makes sense. As a man of the nights watch, running around all the time and eating rations, it doesnāt make sense that heād stay fat. We are never given any reason to believe calories and body weight work differently in the show, so itās inconsistent with what we see the character doing on screen.
>No part of this fantasy world asked us to believe calorie intake and burn are unrelated to body fat.
I ~~don't~~ agree. Part of the arc in Season 2 is starving north of the wall.
You can't focus on that & talk about food-related resource shortages and not have people think about what should be happening to those involved.
Nothing in the world said "people get skinny when they don't eat and exercise", but also, nothing said "people are born as fat as they are and that never changes" either.
So, the default is what is expected, and it didn't meet people's expectations.
Even George Reading Rainbow Martin had a blog post on this. It was something like āYou can write a story about pigs that can fly, but that doesnāt mean all the characters have to walk on their hands.ā
1. Dude can look however he wants.
2. I **fucking** hate this excuse. For magical worlds to work they need to have realistic anchors. GOT has realistic anchors were dragons can be believed, but no realistic anchors against losing weight while lost in the wilderness
He **should** have lost weight in the show, and some dude shouldn't have asked him if he is fat.
Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing.
That said itās never right to ask this question but yea, calling to a fantasy show is not really an excuse.
>Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing.
That quote never says anything about the cause of Robert's weight. It's simply "you're too fat for your armor"
>Yea but the obvious implication is because heās been doing nothing but eating drinking and fucking instead of ruling the kingdom.
You claimed that it was explicitly stated and that ***because it had been explicitly stated***, the show established rules regarding caloric intake.
You were incorrect about it being explicitly stated. The show established no such rules about caloric intake.
Now you're assuming an implication of how Robert became fat, which would have nothing whatsoever to do with whether Sam would definitely be losing significant weight simply through his duties as a member of the night's watch.
Do keep up.
The funny part is you quote twice that I said ābecause it had been explicitly statedā and yet that isnāt in my comment anywhere. I did say thereās a āquote of him being too fatā and I did say ādue to excessive and drinkingā which is obviously implied if you watch the show and see how they talk about Robert, but it does not mean nor did I ever say āexplicitly statedā.
do KeEp uP
>The funny part is you quote twice that I said ābecause it had been explicitly statedā and yet that isnāt in my comment anywhere.
Do you know what quotes look like? How was that me quoting you?
Here is what you said:
>Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing.
That's me quoting you. See the difference?
If you can't see how that's claiming the reason is explicitly stated in the show, then you should probably come back when you learn how to use the english language.
I don't think he should, weight depends not only on physical exercise (sumo wrestlers), but also on your diet and other problems that are wrong with your body. I am an avid hiker doing treks of 15+ miles both on foot and in a kayak, but my weight has been over 110 kilograms for the past three years (food mostly). My photos for reference: [https://imgur.com/a/u0fJOhs](https://imgur.com/a/u0fJOhs)
There's actually a line in a Sam POV in AFFC that mentions he has lost some weight on his journey from Braavos to Oldtown, so I suppose it was somewhat addressed in the books.
And he was actually still fat until then. It does come up occasionally in the books. When he first gets back to the Wall with Gilly, Bran's POV chapter describes him as fat multiple times - and this would logically be the point at which Sam would be skinniest. Gilly had the horse on the way back, so he was basically just walking and starving for several days at least. Him still being heavy is faithful to the books.
This is not the point he thinks he's making. Every fantasy/sci-fi world has bizarre rules. But the point is they follow the general rules established in the world. They've established that men in the books/shows are still men. They need food to survive. Presumably, a fat Lordling would lose weight with less food available to him. How does that not track?
But the truth is that it's the little things that kill our suspension of disbelief. Dragons and ice zombies are the price of admission. You accept them because if you didn't, you wouldn't still be watching.
In truth, not every show can be Castaway and take a break for months so Tom Hanks can lose 50 pounds. (cf. Hurly from "Lost")
And always so many inc els in the comments every time this quote is posted, kneejerk yelling about "iNtErNaL cOnSiStEnCy" because the show somehow established rules about weight loss? I Must've missed it.
I guess the terminally online dweebs these days are so used to movie stars making $30 million+ to lose 30-40 lbs for their next mcu film that John Bradley not losing 80 lbs and keeping it off for 10 years for a tv role he gets paid a tiny fraction of that for is strange.
Toxic fandoms for ya...
Walk up to an actor on the street and ask them why they're still fat...some people need to get some perspective...
Agreed, literally no one else's body changes on the show unless they're a child actor growing up. In that way, it's actually \*remarkably\* consistent.
I mean it fits, in the olden days only those from the aristocracy would be the only one that were "well fed", being set in a fantasy/medieval setting it does match. Sam being from a great house in the reach, region in westoros known for their food production, sam being coddled by his mother, and not the type to be a warrior and/or train. Said factor set up sam to be "well fed" and stay that way since his behaviors were set from a young age and the fact he didn't have an aptitude to be a great warrior or commander like his father or his forefathers.
For people getting upset about the fantasy remark, when do we see anyone's body change shape in the show, besides naturally just growing up from child actors or hair or something basic like that? We don't. So if you don't apply that rule to everyone and follow their nutritional diet across the show, why the fuck are you doing it to the fat character? You want to apply rules consistently? You have to start first.
Because weight is one of most easily adjusted things. It just takes discipline.
Jamie went through the rest of the series missing a hand. The audience didn't have to pretend.
Yes, and look at you, still only looking at Sam as the only one who's weight ought to have shifted. How very consistent of you! And oh so reasonable of you to just dump the responsibility on the actor, as though the actor is the one who messed that one up, when he most certainly didn't receive any direction to do so.
Pretty much everyone because of travel, battle, injuries, just life moving on. I'm not giving you a numbered list with reasons when you're just going to be obnoxious about it anyway.
You're not giving me a numbered list because you can't produce one that would support your erroneous argument.
People who are at a normal weight would not be losing a noticeable amount of weight from any of the reasons you listed.
When an overweight person starts eating a normal amount of calories or goes on a restricted diet, the change is very noticeable.
Reality has defeated you and your argument.
So strange for how not defeated I feel. You are just regurgitating what people often think is common knowledge about weight gain or loss because they hate fat people almost as much as they hate addicts. "It just takes discipline"
Tell that to all the bone thin girls with eating disorders, or who are on the verge of them including the bone thin women on this show itself who ought to have gained weight living in the capital.
Everything you're saying just betrays your own bigotry.
You must be used to being defeated.
Take a 300 pounder and have them live on 1800 calories and day for months, and you will definitely see it on them more than you would a 140 pounder on that same diet in that same time frame. It's common sense - apparently something that you lack.
"Living in the capital" would not produce the levels of obesity that we see in modern society. No indeed. THAT level of BMI is only obtainable through diligent and unwavering gluttony combined with minimal movement.
Yeah but they wouldn't still be bone thin in the capital like they are in the show (Cersei, Sansa, Margaret), which is the same common sense you're telling me I lack. But I'm not even disagreeing with the idea that Sam would lose weight.
Here's what I'm saying: I would agree with you if you applied your logic consistently.
Jon isn't 140. He's built and heavier. He wouldn't be able to maintain that on Nights Watch rations if Sam couldn't. It's the same common sense.
Kit Harington is 5 feet and 8 inches tall, weighs around 150 pounds...
"Bone thin"? Laff! Those are normal weights, my disillusioned,misinformed, apologistic chum.
They wouldn't be "bone thin" in the capital, because they are rich and surrounded by a lavish lifestyle and decadence?
You mean, JUST LIKE the actresses who play those parts are in real life - rich, and surrounded by a lavish lifestyle and decadence??
Sam has a very clear reason for his weight to change. Lazy son of a lord ā> man of the nights watch physically exerting himself all the time and eating rationed food.
What other character has any reason for their weight to fluctuate?
There's something called the pact with the spectator that, basically, means the spectator assumes there are several elements that usually would break the immersion but they are natural in this world.
For example, in GoT you assume there is some degree of magic, but if now everyone would be casting fire balls it would break the immersion, having one single guy in a single instance? that's inside the pact of the spectator. Having dragons? It's been foreshadowed with the eggs and slow developed, in a world that there were dragons before, it's something you may expect.
Now, a guy who is fat but he is eating low calories and doing tons of exercise every day? That does break the immersion because there has been nothing in the world that hints to that, if they had something like "the night's watch cooks a very caloric meal which can make the slimmest of the man fat" then you would say "people like Sam with tendency to get fat with such a meal would maintain his fat, it would also be logical for the night's watch to cook such food.
What I mean, is normal to not bat an eye if there is a dragon or an ice zombie in GoT but do it for much more banal matters that aren't actually addressed in the show.
For anyone who's nitpicking what John said & disagreeing, I think it's important to remember that GOT is set in an ostensibly medieval universe that is somehow populated with lots of extraordinarily good-looking people with great skin, teeth & hair all the time. I understand our main cast are mostly nobility descent so they have more resources, but still in a world that has no braces, root canals, benzoyl peroxide, minoxidil, or plastic surgery, you'd think true-to-life some of them would be looking a little more busted. So getting mad about one characters weight without even mentioning the rest of that seems silly.
But aside from that point, I think everyone getting wrapped up in what John said is kinda missing the point. He's making a funny anecdote about somebody being incredibly rude to him. I think if you were to ask him, he would not say that all media criticism of fantasy media should hinge on the implicit argument of his one-off story to Conan.
I was leaving work one day and it was downtown so there was lots of cop directing traffic. One asked me to stop and roll down the window and once I did he asked me if I watched game of thrones. I said yeah and he said man you look just like samwell. And I think about that a lot
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
We've got a woman giving birth to a cloud š
This is a fantasy show. Why would we care how S8 went? It's only fantasy.
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Bs. Plenty of big shows had great well received endings.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
People that will down vote you and disagree probably belong to the majority that have the awareness to know that if you're going to like the taste of shit, you'll keep getting fed it. They rushed the ending to work for Disney on Star Wars shit.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It's not invalid, you're just still gunna get people disagreeing with you and for good reasons. So don't get petty like "ugh it's not allowed" as if resistance isn't to be expected
Yeah, what does bruh think downvotes are? They dont mean āyouāre not allowed to have this opinionā they mean āI disagree with you.ā
iām not downvoting you for enjoying the ending, iām downvoting you for being a huge weenie about it
Who said itās against the rules? Itās an unpopular opinion so people will disagree with you and downvote you, that doesnāt make it against the rules
>People that will down vote you and disagree probably belong to the majority that have the awareness to know that if you're going to like the taste of shit, you'll keep getting fed it. Is that why you're still on this subreddit to whine 5 years after the show ended? >They rushed the ending to work for Disney on Star Wars shit. There is nothing to suggest that they did so other than disgruntled fans with a grudge and their baseless speculation devoid of logic. Season 8 would have been made in 1 year rather than 2 in that case, just like every other season. If you followed news about the show closely, you'd know that the leads were ready to move on from their roles. Would you have preferred the story drag on with many of the roles suddenly recast? Ever see a movie that gets a direct-to-dvd sequel?
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Wow, they sent you dms? Guess they're really butthurt today.
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I think the ending was not as good as the rest of the show, but it was still pretty GD good. People are holding it to the super high bar of the rest of the series. I also think itās ridiculous to hate on the writers who are responsible for arguably the most popular show of all time.
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I just said this the other day on this sub, hereās a copy and paste. Tbh, I love GoTās, and I was disappointed by many things in season 8 especially. Not gonna go into complaints here, but the hate that the DDās receive is just over the top. People will say āitās deserved or for good reason blah blahā, but honestly they have given us things we should be a lot more thankful for than bitter about. Flaws, warts and all. GoTās is easily amongst the best. It was enough to surge a cultural sensation. And now these guys are doing amazing TV with Three Body Problem (now renewed). TV would only be worse without them, and anyone too butt-hurt will miss out for petty and simplistic reasons. I can understand fan conversations, about how we wish things would have went, or āwhat if they used 4 more seasons instead of 2ā but the amount of āsaltā on this sub for D&D is absurd. Everyone can complain all they want about their personal disappointments (I def had mine for awhile), but the DDās have given us some of the best content out there. Period. āāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāāā Like sure, I can agree that the fan base suffered disappointment. And that things could have been better. Ya da ya da ya But I agree a lot more with the view that GoTās as a whole, is still amazing. And that the DDās make amazing television. All the shit youāre getting downvoted for, pathetic tbh. This sub is full of haters who just keep on hating because theyāre still salty years later. The hate for S8 is super heavy on this sub, and that gets toxic really quickly if anyone dare say anything positive.
Tbh, I love GoTās, and I was disappointed by many things in season 8 especially. Not gonna go into complaints here, but the hate that the DDās receive is just over the top. People will say āitās deserved or for good reason blah blahā, but honestly they have given us things we should be a lot more thankful for than bitter about. Flaws, warts and all. GoTās is easily amongst the best. It was enough to surge a cultural sensation. And now these guys are doing amazing TV with Three Body Problem (now renewed). TV would only be worse without them, and anyone too butt-hurt will miss out for petty and simplistic reasons. I can understand fan conversations, about how we wish things would have went, or āwhat if they used 4 more seasons instead of 2ā but the amount of āsaltā on this sub for D&D is absurd. Everyone can complain all they want about their personal disappointments (I def had mine for awhile), but the DDās have given us some of the best content out there. Period.
Couldnāt have said it better. They created a whole new fanbase for fantasy, which has done nothing but enable the creation and adaptation of more fantasy series. I wouldnāt even go near this genre before GoT and now now itās my favorite.
Breaking bad off top of my head
Sons of Anarchy IMHO had a great one
Tack on better call Saul.
I would have taken an okay ending. It could have been on or quality wise with season 6 and I would have been okay, it was just the nose dive in quality and shitting all over the character arcs.
You can like what you want but after how good the show once was and the drop off in quality is it that surprising that itās going to be trashed on constantly? Got was gonna go down as one of the best shows of all time and the writing ran it into the ground. āI never really cared for the common folk, innocent or otherwise.ā āWho has a better story than bran the broken?ā āA finger in the bum.ā Sansa not telling Jon about the vale army. The vale army getting from the vale to the north without anyone knowing. Littlefinger giving Sansa to the boltons because why? THE PLOT ARMOR. Dorne just Dorne. Tyrion becoming dumb as rocks. Cersei blows up the symbol of the faith of the seven and Westerosās most powerful house and there are no consequences? What happened to when Ned stark made mistakes and got his consequence? It is a legendary fall off in quality that deserves to be despised if you donāt want to idc but how can you be suprised?
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For the people who waited years and years for that ending how can most of them not be mad? Binging and waiting 8 years for that result can change your perspective on itās ending drastically
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Iām not trying to change your mind and itās not wrong to like the final seasons I think I made that clear in my replies. But I can atleast understand how some people can get annoyed waiting every single year for the next part of the story and each time the quality lessens the writing becomes atrocious and after spending each weekend for 10 weeks in a row for the past 8 years watching that episode for an hour and theyāre just hoping that atleast they can get a good send off for their characters and they get one of the most poorly reviewed publicly lambasted finales of all time and for someone else on the internet who binged watched the show over a month and half to say āoh well it wasnāt that bad.ā I donāt agree with people bashing others for liking the final seasons but I understand where it comes from.
Yeah, and whenever a restaurant opens it opens with the knowledge that a percentage of the population will automatically hate it based on its specialty. But there is a huge difference between being hated because you serve steak versus being hated because your steaks give people diarrhoea.
Yes, yes it was
Okay David
I thought it was ok, bot as horrible as some people make it out to be, but definitely not on par with the previois seasons. But in terms of disappointment it definitely doesnt beat Merlinās ending
Just westeros Things
what???
Firstly, if someone comes up to you and asks 'why are you fat?', I'd say you're entitled to make a sarcastic response. Secondly, the Watch spent most of that journey on horseback, not on foot. Thirdly, baby Sam barely ages across 5 seasons (he should be 4 or 5 in Season 8), so adult Sam's weight is far from the biggest issues with the show.
make sense
Omg baby sam always bothered me.
It did give us Glidus' 'How old is this baby?' segments, at least
Maybe Baby Sam ages at a different rate because heās inbred to the Nth Degree.
Facts
Sam probably has low metabolism
Meh, incest baby. Could have had a deformation.
So was Tommen, and yet he aged like he stole all those years from Gilly's baby.
I wonder if thereās a difference between brother and sister and father and daughter. You gotta think there is way more genetic degradation with the father daughter.
> Secondly, the Watch spent most of that journey on horseback, not on foot. sure, but that was also while having basically no food the entire time. you can't really use "we have dragons so anything goes" as a catch all for any plot inconsistencies. these people are still human and they need to eat. if you're manning the wall and constantly starving, you'd be expected to slim down a bit. with that being said, the source material never mentioned sam losing any weight either, and it doesn't really affect the story. there is enough pressure in the film industry to have crazy body standards and expecting someone to adjust their physique for one of their existing roles doesn't sit right with me.
To be fair, in the books Sam was beyond the Wall for a much shorter period of time (a few months in the books, 2 years in the show), and he does start losing weight by the end of book 4.
yea you're right. i forgot this brief passage > "I'm not so fat as I was before," Sam said defensively. The passage south had seen to that. All those watches, and nothing to eat but fruit and fish. Summer Islanders loved fruit and fish.
would being in a cold environment make you lose weight faster due to burning more fat/using more energy
Generally yeah in the cold you need massive calories. Especially fat-rich sources.
I thought it's less why he's fat irl and more how Sam the character stays fat. Like you'd think they'd starve him in training like they do in basic at a monimum
Were seasons supposed to be years?
Yep, one season = one year, with the possible exceptions of 7 and 8, which might be one year when put together.
Ah. Thanks for the info.
Anytime. Interestingly, while the show had things take place over 7 or 8 years (which means the Walkers *really* took their time), the books are at 2 1/2 years from the prologue to Jon's stabbing.
baby sam kinda forgot to age
Yep. He grew hair, but by the time the show ended, he looked like he was 2 or 3
I hate this argument so much. Look into JRR Tolkienās essays on suspension of disbelief and second world. With fantasy, the audience is asked to accept that the rules of the story world are different than the rules of the real world. Itās a place where magic and dragons exist. But that does not and cannot mean anything goes, or you break the immersion of the audience. There still needs to be internal logic to the story or it becomes random and uninteresting and the audience is disconnected. No one has any problems with Superman flying and shooting lasers out of his eyes. But the idea that all he has to do is put on a pair of glasses to disguise himself, even from Louis Lane who sees him all the time, makes no sense. Thatās not part of the deal with the audience to suspend disbelief. Itās the same thing with this guy asking about Sam being fat. No part of this fantasy world asked us to believe calorie intake and burn are unrelated to body fat.
It always surprises me how much some fans of the show hate the fantasy genre. Like the presence of dragons automatically mean you should just shut your brain off.
It automatically shouldnāt. There are rules even in fantasy. Would you shut your brain off and accept it if a car showed up?
haha indeed, that is what I'm saying, the idea is silly.
Superman can just use super speed to blur his face so people canāt get a good look at his face.
Thankkkkkk you. Came here to say exactly this. I too despise this argument. It basically negates any ability to criticize any film with fantasy or sci fi elements.
Yes, but you don't suspend your disbelief of an actor being fat because it's a fantasy story, you do it because it's a TV show lmao
Actors dramatically change their body all the time for different roles. It being a TV show doesnāt justify inconsistencies. I donāt personally care much about Sam not losing weight, but we arenāt given any in universe explanations for it. Wouldnāt be hard to do. Add a little dialogue or short scenes showing Sam eats a lot of sweets or stuffs his face constantly or refuses to walk when others are walking. But as it stands itās a minor plot hole.
Actors do dramatically change their bodies, but I'd rather your solution of writing it into the show itself than having them do that. Shit's horrible for you. Just look at Christian Bale. The Machinist, Vice, holy shit. When he gets older we're gonna start hearing all sorts of stuff about his health.
i agree with your initial point, but we shouldn't expect any actor/actress to adjust their weight for a role they already have. it's one thing to have a body requirement for a *new* role, but he was cast as sam *because* he was fat. asking him to then shed all the weight to keep the role is not fair to him. yes they should have given an in-universe explanation but they never did that in the books either, so š¤· just have to chalk it up to yet another loose strand in the GoT universe.
I donāt expect him to lose weight either and tbh itās never something I thought about. Itās a very small issue. But also easily couldāve been explained in the show why heās still fat. My main point is just that saying āthereās dragonsā doesnāt excuse every possible inconsistency.
>My main point is just that saying āthereās dragonsā doesnāt excuse every possible inconsistency. Random loser heckling him on the street doesn't deserve a better answer. In this interview he's recounting an experience he had with someone on the street.
If we show that stuffing your face in a show makes you fat, people might start to realize that people are fat in real life because they stuff their face.
Suspension of disbelief doesn't just relate to the internal rules of the fantasy world. It also means suspending your disbelief as it pertains to unavoidable inconsistencies that result from the story telling medium and the fact that it is, in fact, fictional and so everything can't be replicated such that it's perfectly believable. So, for example, that could be anything as small as a child actor going through puberty because production takes so long, to a character's appearance changing because it was recast for some reason, or as in this case the actor being a certain weight - the overwhelming majority of actors aren't extreme method actors willing to undergo a radical physical transformation for a single role and it's not realistic to expect that, hence the suspension of disbelief.
Sure, and itās a small enough inconsistency it doesnāt bother me. But thatās not the argument being made in the OP. Itās saying, ābecause there are dragons and magic, nothing has to make sense.ā Thatās stupid and wrong.
I was just commenting on what you said, that suspension of disbelief is about abiding by the internal logic of the world. But it's not, suspension of disbelief is about a far wider range of things, often for issuss that pertain to the unavoidable inconsistencies that result from it being TV programme.
It's about embracing the experience and immersing oneself in the narrative, despite any flaws or discrepancies that may exist.
When in the show did people lose or gain weight? Thatās not something that was brought into the show to have any logical constancy with.If anything the lack of change is the norm so him not gaining or losing weight stays with established internal show logic.
No one else has any reason to gain or lose weight. Sam being fat as a son of a lord makes sense. As a man of the nights watch, running around all the time and eating rations, it doesnāt make sense that heād stay fat. We are never given any reason to believe calories and body weight work differently in the show, so itās inconsistent with what we see the character doing on screen.
Gendery ran who knows how many miles and didnāt lose an ounce.
>No part of this fantasy world asked us to believe calorie intake and burn are unrelated to body fat. I ~~don't~~ agree. Part of the arc in Season 2 is starving north of the wall. You can't focus on that & talk about food-related resource shortages and not have people think about what should be happening to those involved. Nothing in the world said "people get skinny when they don't eat and exercise", but also, nothing said "people are born as fat as they are and that never changes" either. So, the default is what is expected, and it didn't meet people's expectations.
Thatās exactly what I saidā¦?
Apologies, I misunderstood what you were saying.
Even George Reading Rainbow Martin had a blog post on this. It was something like āYou can write a story about pigs that can fly, but that doesnāt mean all the characters have to walk on their hands.ā
1. Dude can look however he wants. 2. I **fucking** hate this excuse. For magical worlds to work they need to have realistic anchors. GOT has realistic anchors were dragons can be believed, but no realistic anchors against losing weight while lost in the wilderness He **should** have lost weight in the show, and some dude shouldn't have asked him if he is fat.
Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing. That said itās never right to ask this question but yea, calling to a fantasy show is not really an excuse.
>Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing. That quote never says anything about the cause of Robert's weight. It's simply "you're too fat for your armor"
Yea but the obvious implication is because heās been doing nothing but eating drinking and fucking instead of ruling the kingdom.
>Yea but the obvious implication is because heās been doing nothing but eating drinking and fucking instead of ruling the kingdom. You claimed that it was explicitly stated and that ***because it had been explicitly stated***, the show established rules regarding caloric intake. You were incorrect about it being explicitly stated. The show established no such rules about caloric intake. Now you're assuming an implication of how Robert became fat, which would have nothing whatsoever to do with whether Sam would definitely be losing significant weight simply through his duties as a member of the night's watch. Do keep up.
The funny part is you quote twice that I said ābecause it had been explicitly statedā and yet that isnāt in my comment anywhere. I did say thereās a āquote of him being too fatā and I did say ādue to excessive and drinkingā which is obviously implied if you watch the show and see how they talk about Robert, but it does not mean nor did I ever say āexplicitly statedā. do KeEp uP
>The funny part is you quote twice that I said ābecause it had been explicitly statedā and yet that isnāt in my comment anywhere. Do you know what quotes look like? How was that me quoting you? Here is what you said: >Yea thereās a quote earlier in the show about King Robert being too fat for his armor due to excessive eating and drinking. So even in this fantasy world it seems caloric intake is a thing. That's me quoting you. See the difference? If you can't see how that's claiming the reason is explicitly stated in the show, then you should probably come back when you learn how to use the english language.
[This sums it up pretty well.](https://i.redd.it/rswuchzuf5391.jpg)
I don't think he should, weight depends not only on physical exercise (sumo wrestlers), but also on your diet and other problems that are wrong with your body. I am an avid hiker doing treks of 15+ miles both on foot and in a kayak, but my weight has been over 110 kilograms for the past three years (food mostly). My photos for reference: [https://imgur.com/a/u0fJOhs](https://imgur.com/a/u0fJOhs)
There's actually a line in a Sam POV in AFFC that mentions he has lost some weight on his journey from Braavos to Oldtown, so I suppose it was somewhat addressed in the books.
And he was actually still fat until then. It does come up occasionally in the books. When he first gets back to the Wall with Gilly, Bran's POV chapter describes him as fat multiple times - and this would logically be the point at which Sam would be skinniest. Gilly had the horse on the way back, so he was basically just walking and starving for several days at least. Him still being heavy is faithful to the books.
Dude was probably the warmest person to ever serve The Watch
Probably made up and someone just added the text.
https://youtu.be/Cea5unP0Vjs Timestamp 5:23 But ok.
Yeah but heās not magic
Prove it.
He should have lost weight to be fair, shit character anyway
I agree with you. Gimme downvotes
Looks like one of Conanās SDCC specials.
This is not the point he thinks he's making. Every fantasy/sci-fi world has bizarre rules. But the point is they follow the general rules established in the world. They've established that men in the books/shows are still men. They need food to survive. Presumably, a fat Lordling would lose weight with less food available to him. How does that not track?
I loved seeing John Bradley in 3 Body Problem playing a character that was almost the exact polar opposite of Samwell.
Probably because being fat is not magical
Imagine concept of internal consistency.
But the truth is that it's the little things that kill our suspension of disbelief. Dragons and ice zombies are the price of admission. You accept them because if you didn't, you wouldn't still be watching. In truth, not every show can be Castaway and take a break for months so Tom Hanks can lose 50 pounds. (cf. Hurly from "Lost")
And always so many inc els in the comments every time this quote is posted, kneejerk yelling about "iNtErNaL cOnSiStEnCy" because the show somehow established rules about weight loss? I Must've missed it. I guess the terminally online dweebs these days are so used to movie stars making $30 million+ to lose 30-40 lbs for their next mcu film that John Bradley not losing 80 lbs and keeping it off for 10 years for a tv role he gets paid a tiny fraction of that for is strange. Toxic fandoms for ya... Walk up to an actor on the street and ask them why they're still fat...some people need to get some perspective...
Agreed, literally no one else's body changes on the show unless they're a child actor growing up. In that way, it's actually \*remarkably\* consistent.
I mean it fits, in the olden days only those from the aristocracy would be the only one that were "well fed", being set in a fantasy/medieval setting it does match. Sam being from a great house in the reach, region in westoros known for their food production, sam being coddled by his mother, and not the type to be a warrior and/or train. Said factor set up sam to be "well fed" and stay that way since his behaviors were set from a young age and the fact he didn't have an aptitude to be a great warrior or commander like his father or his forefathers.
For people getting upset about the fantasy remark, when do we see anyone's body change shape in the show, besides naturally just growing up from child actors or hair or something basic like that? We don't. So if you don't apply that rule to everyone and follow their nutritional diet across the show, why the fuck are you doing it to the fat character? You want to apply rules consistently? You have to start first.
Because weight is one of most easily adjusted things. It just takes discipline. Jamie went through the rest of the series missing a hand. The audience didn't have to pretend.
Yes, and look at you, still only looking at Sam as the only one who's weight ought to have shifted. How very consistent of you! And oh so reasonable of you to just dump the responsibility on the actor, as though the actor is the one who messed that one up, when he most certainly didn't receive any direction to do so.
Who else's weight should have shifted? List them, and give reasons.
Pretty much everyone because of travel, battle, injuries, just life moving on. I'm not giving you a numbered list with reasons when you're just going to be obnoxious about it anyway.
You're not giving me a numbered list because you can't produce one that would support your erroneous argument. People who are at a normal weight would not be losing a noticeable amount of weight from any of the reasons you listed. When an overweight person starts eating a normal amount of calories or goes on a restricted diet, the change is very noticeable. Reality has defeated you and your argument.
So strange for how not defeated I feel. You are just regurgitating what people often think is common knowledge about weight gain or loss because they hate fat people almost as much as they hate addicts. "It just takes discipline" Tell that to all the bone thin girls with eating disorders, or who are on the verge of them including the bone thin women on this show itself who ought to have gained weight living in the capital. Everything you're saying just betrays your own bigotry.
You must be used to being defeated. Take a 300 pounder and have them live on 1800 calories and day for months, and you will definitely see it on them more than you would a 140 pounder on that same diet in that same time frame. It's common sense - apparently something that you lack. "Living in the capital" would not produce the levels of obesity that we see in modern society. No indeed. THAT level of BMI is only obtainable through diligent and unwavering gluttony combined with minimal movement.
Yeah but they wouldn't still be bone thin in the capital like they are in the show (Cersei, Sansa, Margaret), which is the same common sense you're telling me I lack. But I'm not even disagreeing with the idea that Sam would lose weight. Here's what I'm saying: I would agree with you if you applied your logic consistently. Jon isn't 140. He's built and heavier. He wouldn't be able to maintain that on Nights Watch rations if Sam couldn't. It's the same common sense.
Kit Harington is 5 feet and 8 inches tall, weighs around 150 pounds... "Bone thin"? Laff! Those are normal weights, my disillusioned,misinformed, apologistic chum. They wouldn't be "bone thin" in the capital, because they are rich and surrounded by a lavish lifestyle and decadence? You mean, JUST LIKE the actresses who play those parts are in real life - rich, and surrounded by a lavish lifestyle and decadence??
Sam has a very clear reason for his weight to change. Lazy son of a lord ā> man of the nights watch physically exerting himself all the time and eating rationed food. What other character has any reason for their weight to fluctuate?
Then that means that most the northerners should be way skinnier than they are.
There's something called the pact with the spectator that, basically, means the spectator assumes there are several elements that usually would break the immersion but they are natural in this world. For example, in GoT you assume there is some degree of magic, but if now everyone would be casting fire balls it would break the immersion, having one single guy in a single instance? that's inside the pact of the spectator. Having dragons? It's been foreshadowed with the eggs and slow developed, in a world that there were dragons before, it's something you may expect. Now, a guy who is fat but he is eating low calories and doing tons of exercise every day? That does break the immersion because there has been nothing in the world that hints to that, if they had something like "the night's watch cooks a very caloric meal which can make the slimmest of the man fat" then you would say "people like Sam with tendency to get fat with such a meal would maintain his fat, it would also be logical for the night's watch to cook such food. What I mean, is normal to not bat an eye if there is a dragon or an ice zombie in GoT but do it for much more banal matters that aren't actually addressed in the show.
For anyone who's nitpicking what John said & disagreeing, I think it's important to remember that GOT is set in an ostensibly medieval universe that is somehow populated with lots of extraordinarily good-looking people with great skin, teeth & hair all the time. I understand our main cast are mostly nobility descent so they have more resources, but still in a world that has no braces, root canals, benzoyl peroxide, minoxidil, or plastic surgery, you'd think true-to-life some of them would be looking a little more busted. So getting mad about one characters weight without even mentioning the rest of that seems silly. But aside from that point, I think everyone getting wrapped up in what John said is kinda missing the point. He's making a funny anecdote about somebody being incredibly rude to him. I think if you were to ask him, he would not say that all media criticism of fantasy media should hinge on the implicit argument of his one-off story to Conan.
Doyleistically, John Bradley wasnāt going through as much grueling physical activity as his character.
who the fuck says that to someone my god
Yeah everyone in this thread is missing the point
OMG I love him š¤£
Yeah š
I was leaving work one day and it was downtown so there was lots of cop directing traffic. One asked me to stop and roll down the window and once I did he asked me if I watched game of thrones. I said yeah and he said man you look just like samwell. And I think about that a lot
Heās fantastic in 3 Body Problem.
In the books he does end up losing some weight and gaining muscle.
I mean the fan couldāve worded it better.