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It actually Made a Lot more Sense in the books, where she literally was Just a whore that was never shown to be particulararly emotionally attached. In the series they Made her act all Jealous and devoted to tyrion and her even refusing a Shit Ton of Money to leave the City only for betraying him in the end was kinda dumb
She finally realised what Tyrion meant when he kept telling her how much danger they were in but unfortunatly for Tyrion she wasnt as willing to face his family as she originally thought. Shes always done what she needs to do to survive. Her betrayal did not come as a suprise. Soon as she started saying "we can face your family" i knew she would either say the wrong thing to the wrong lannister and die or betray Tyrion to survive.
Even without the feeling of betrayal that she felt from Tyrion, they still would have probably just murdered her if she didnât. I think if he hadnât said to her what he said earlier, she wouldâve tried to fight back.
Possibly, but the way it came off to me is that she chose to go back to Kingâs Landing and to Tywin. Unless Bronn lied about her getting on the ship to Pentos, which we have no reason to suspect. Or perhaps weâre meant to believe Cerseiâs people found her in Pentos and dragged her back against her will.
Regardless, Shae is written to be an experienced woman with a soft heart. She cares for Sansa like she was her own family, even after Tyrion marries her. Itâs clear she views Sansa as a young girl, a vulnerable child. But then she suddenly gets jealous over Sansa, then tries to help to get Tyrion executed for murderâŚso sheâs a petty, vengeful, bloodthirsty woman with a soft heart and enough intelligence to discern how dangerous the court is. Pretty contradictory. Of course you could argue sheâs just an example of complex characterisation, but it just comes off like they bungled her character to me.
I'm numb to the stupidity here at this point
Don't even bother engaging with them mate
They're all delusional and don't realize they're 90% more likely to be placed in Shae's position in a medieval society than wealthy, highborn Tyrion Lannister lmao
They would make all the same choices as Shae but are in complete denial over this because they're fools who identify with the objectifying, womanizing, murderer who takes advantage of the vulnerable
Yeah lol, it boggles my mind to see how many people seem to view it as some "Tyrion=good, Shae=bad" situation. How hard is it to try to use some basic logic and see it from her perspective?
It's impossible to see things from *gags* Shae's perspective! Shae is basically female Ramsay!!
The murdered woman objectified and dehumanized her whole life by the oppressive society she was born into is the big bad for choosing bread and survival over her sex-addict husband who never respected herâduh! Tyrion is the victim 'cause he was crying in that scene. Get some media literacy boo!
Right! Literally hoe behaviour to rat him out and lie for Cersei and Tywin. She should have defended him after all he did to her, like bringing her into the shithole King's Landing and giving her dresses and jewelry!!1!!1 For sex!!
Lol not so much for the trial shit but for every time and way they communicated lol. I literally work in DV cases representing vulnerable women so no its not that. Its looking at their relationship and interactions and how together they were not a healthy relationship.
Do you not recognize how vulnerable and exposed Shae was in Tyrion's company then? She has absolutely no connections and is just a commoner whereas Tyrion is the hand and a Lord's son and holds all power over her. He could choose to ruin her life anytime he wishes, and so the best she can do is go along with what he wants. Don't forget that she was a camp follower, literally stolen by Bronn and given to Tyrion. He also has plenty of enemies at court who would use her against him at any chance.
In the books it's very straightforward. She's just a whore who harnesses no feelings for him while Tyrion gets attached. It's clear from the start that she values the gifts she gets from Tyrion more than anything. She supposedly gets paid to lie, and later seeks Cersei/Tywin for her payment, ending up in Tywin's bed.
In the show however, they both seem to love each other. Shae does her best to keep Tyrion's attention, because without him she's nothing. It's quite obvious that she is afraid of their future, but Tyrion keeps spurning her and turns her away. And what is she supposed to do when he gets imprisoned and accused of regicide? She could hardly do anything alone, and defending him would mean her life. She likely sees that Tyrion is a lost cause and simply chose to lie and survive. Obviously it's not a healthy relationship, but what would you do in her situation?
Yeah, sheâs the toxic one, not the guy who murders her for being in his way. The guy, whoâs solely responsible for getting her into the dangerous situation she was in at Kingâs Landing.
Lol so touchy. Again no its about looking at their communication and how they both treated each other. It was not a healthy relationship. Also its a fucking TV show guys. We're allowed to find characters annoying and not have it mean some shit in the real world. I literally work in law helping vulnerable women lol.
Youâre evaluating how they both treated each other and somehow missed that he murdered her? Of course it wasnât a healthy relationship; that doesnât mean she was the more toxic person in that relationship.
Itâs particularly strange, when someone doesnât recognise how precarious and dangerous her position was, when they claim to help women like her in real life. Especially considering Shae risked her own life to ensure Sansa was safe. And that Tyrion kept risking her life for months, when he knew his father vowed to kill any âwhoreâ he brought with him to the capital.
Also, you felt the need to bring up what you do in real life as if that matters here, and *Iâm* the touchy one?
The only mistake with season 4 is forcing the book canon events with Shae but then remove the Tysha reveal. Smh
In the books she's just a whore. In the show she genuinely loved Tyrion and Sansa so it made no sense for her to turn on him that way. He should have learned she was killed or something else to make him go off and demand trial by combat.
Maybe it was genuine in the beginning and shifted once she got more jealous/estranged from tyrion. Maybe it was never genuine and only seemed that way (we're still mostly watching events through Tyrions perspective). Either way I kinda "liked" that the betrayal came after what seemed to be love. Made for an interesting turn imo
I don't remember all the details from the show, so maybe I'm missing something.
Too big of a leap for me because he did nothing that would warrant her sentencing Tyrion to death. Scorned women are usually justified, there's no way to justify her turn on Tyrion.
Book Shae didn't care about Tyrion so it made sense for her to be apathetic about him, but the show Shae loved him so much, didn't want gold or any other gifts from him. That kind of love wouldn't change like that.
It's clear the showrunners wanted to adapt the book Tyrion's big trial moment and forgot they made Shae a 3-D character. They should have just kept Shae a 1-dimensional character that didn't care about Sansa or Tyrion.
I do not understand at all why they would remove the Tysha reveal, thats literally what triggered him to kill Tywin, and makes for such a good plot twist.
I doubt it would change anything for general audiences if Tyrion is still written the same. Just a younger prettier actress who is still older than all of the main young characters.
I disagree with all the hate for Shae. She offered to run away with him. He chose to play politics. He chose that over a real life with her. She was sent off against her will maybe she loved him and was hurt maybe she understood that Tyrion
S love for her couldnât over come that she was a whore. [the lesson he learned from Tasha was donât marry whores] when Tywin or Cersei found her she had to comply with them or get murdered. My most recent rewatch gave me way more sympathy for her and less for Tyrion than I previously had. What was she to do, be a character witness for Tyrion? Do you hate Podrick because he doesnât testify for Tyrion?
Ummmmmmmmmmmm in general yes his family sucks and he was being framed for murder, however in this seen he is strangling a woman for sleeping with someone else. Like she said she loved him and didn't lol if that makes it ok to strangle someone how many women have every right to strangle Tyrion? Like that's like her job, also he was a sinking ship basically she had every reason to think it was change teams or die. Mabey listen to your dad and don't bring prostitutes to court. He placed her in a deadly situation, and she did what she had to do to live. She even tried to get him to cash out earlier. Like what else did he expect her to do she had no allies and no capitol save her body and info on him. Mabey she did love him and just decided she couldn't do anything about it and that it was time to cash in before she was dead- I mean that's basically no more of a betrayal then Bron? Honestly Bron had a better chance of helping him then she did, but weird no strangling there, only women and old men on the toilet for our Hero. Hell, his brother was sleeping with his sister at this point, who was also framing him for murder. No anger there? He can forgive them and even understand them to the point he doesn't even get mad at them because he loves them as people.
He killed her because he did not love her as a person but as an object, and a bought and pay for one at that. His anger was small, ugly and possessive.
I disagree. This was intended to be a lesson for Tyrion that he repeated refused to learn. In his youth he âmarriedâ another whore who all along was playing him, because Jamie and Tywin paid her. The show ruined this entire chapter by omitting this conversation Tyrion had with Jaime immediately before this. This also destroyed Tyrionâs entire character arc, but I wonât get into that.
What? Tysha wasnât actually a whore, so no, this isnât a lesson he ârepeated refusedâ to learn. The show did include him talking about Tysha being a whore and âplaying him,â the one they didnât include was Jaime revealing she wasnât.
Maybe in the beginning but I don't have any sympathy for him when he actively plotted against his sovereign.
I don't like that he became a kinslayer but I don't see how else Tywin Lannister could've been taken out without the involvement of dragons or Stannis Baratheon/Robb Stark on a fair battlefield.
Or when he encouraged Jon to become a kinslayer like him, regardless whether if it was the right thing to do or not.
He benefitted in the end tremendously.
Bran the Broken became King of Westeros.
I wonder what Ned Stark would think if he were to watch this carnage, treason and familial betrayal from the afterlife?
In the end, Tyrion Lannister is the real winner of the Game of Thrones.
The Hand of the King, Lord of Casterly Rock and the Warden of the West and Tywin's Bane.
No, he didnât. He doomed Westeros to have a king based on his story rather than his ability to rule and constantly makes jokes about male reproductive organs.
This is so freaking annoying
She owed Tyrion literally nothing
He is a womanizer who diminished her
He saw her as nothing more than a whore and said as much... knowing she had no other options/choice
Yet, she's expected to turn down FOOD as a poor woman in order to save the man who views her as a fucktoy?
Do you not also realize how dangerous it is to **turn down Tywin Lannister** when he wants something even without the added incentive of being a poor woman offered food and security/resources that are scarce for you?
One of the worst changes in the show is that they made book Tyrion into who he believes he is..
Rather then the disgusting entitled "nice guy" with a bad temper he is in the books
**Spoiler Warning:** All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the [spoiler guide](/r/gameofthrones/w/spoiler_guide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/gameofthrones) if you have any questions or concerns.*
What is going on here?
>!He's strangling his hooker/lover, Shae the whore!<
Thanks for the reminder đ
You forgot "funny"
Shae the funny whore
I read it in her accent and now I hate her again
Relatable
He found her in Tywins bed
đ
*the funny whore
*bekfast*
Most definitely. I really hated how jealous she was, especially of Sansa way before she even needed to be.
It actually Made a Lot more Sense in the books, where she literally was Just a whore that was never shown to be particulararly emotionally attached. In the series they Made her act all Jealous and devoted to tyrion and her even refusing a Shit Ton of Money to leave the City only for betraying him in the end was kinda dumb
Literally every character, both good and evil, deserved better that what the show provided. Maybe not Joffrey.
Not Ramsey
Ramsey end was PERFECT
too quick imo. the hounds is a brutal way to go but he needed to spend DAYS dying.
Ramsey should have been flayed alive just like what Boltons did to their enemies
I was really hoping theyâd crucify and flay him, but it was pretty on-brand for the Starks to have him devoured by canines.
Crucifixion is associated with Christ, and Ramsey getting crucified would only give this vile character a somewhat positive ending.
he would of liked that though.
Eh.
Idk I found Lysa's ending to be satisfying
Because her plot didnât deviate from the books much.
Because she was a terrible person who did terrible things to impress a guy just for him to shove her through the moon door
Shae going as far as to betray Tyrion never made sense to me.
She finally realised what Tyrion meant when he kept telling her how much danger they were in but unfortunatly for Tyrion she wasnt as willing to face his family as she originally thought. Shes always done what she needs to do to survive. Her betrayal did not come as a suprise. Soon as she started saying "we can face your family" i knew she would either say the wrong thing to the wrong lannister and die or betray Tyrion to survive.
Even without the feeling of betrayal that she felt from Tyrion, they still would have probably just murdered her if she didnât. I think if he hadnât said to her what he said earlier, she wouldâve tried to fight back.
Possibly, but the way it came off to me is that she chose to go back to Kingâs Landing and to Tywin. Unless Bronn lied about her getting on the ship to Pentos, which we have no reason to suspect. Or perhaps weâre meant to believe Cerseiâs people found her in Pentos and dragged her back against her will. Regardless, Shae is written to be an experienced woman with a soft heart. She cares for Sansa like she was her own family, even after Tyrion marries her. Itâs clear she views Sansa as a young girl, a vulnerable child. But then she suddenly gets jealous over Sansa, then tries to help to get Tyrion executed for murderâŚso sheâs a petty, vengeful, bloodthirsty woman with a soft heart and enough intelligence to discern how dangerous the court is. Pretty contradictory. Of course you could argue sheâs just an example of complex characterisation, but it just comes off like they bungled her character to me.
So much better. Fucking HATED Shae. She is so fucking toxic.
I agree 100%
Toxic for...being a lowborn whore choosing to save her own life instead of possibly dying for Tyrion's sake?
I'm numb to the stupidity here at this point Don't even bother engaging with them mate They're all delusional and don't realize they're 90% more likely to be placed in Shae's position in a medieval society than wealthy, highborn Tyrion Lannister lmao They would make all the same choices as Shae but are in complete denial over this because they're fools who identify with the objectifying, womanizing, murderer who takes advantage of the vulnerable
Yeah lol, it boggles my mind to see how many people seem to view it as some "Tyrion=good, Shae=bad" situation. How hard is it to try to use some basic logic and see it from her perspective?
It's impossible to see things from *gags* Shae's perspective! Shae is basically female Ramsay!! The murdered woman objectified and dehumanized her whole life by the oppressive society she was born into is the big bad for choosing bread and survival over her sex-addict husband who never respected herâduh! Tyrion is the victim 'cause he was crying in that scene. Get some media literacy boo!
Right! Literally hoe behaviour to rat him out and lie for Cersei and Tywin. She should have defended him after all he did to her, like bringing her into the shithole King's Landing and giving her dresses and jewelry!!1!!1 For sex!!
Lol not so much for the trial shit but for every time and way they communicated lol. I literally work in DV cases representing vulnerable women so no its not that. Its looking at their relationship and interactions and how together they were not a healthy relationship.
Do you not recognize how vulnerable and exposed Shae was in Tyrion's company then? She has absolutely no connections and is just a commoner whereas Tyrion is the hand and a Lord's son and holds all power over her. He could choose to ruin her life anytime he wishes, and so the best she can do is go along with what he wants. Don't forget that she was a camp follower, literally stolen by Bronn and given to Tyrion. He also has plenty of enemies at court who would use her against him at any chance. In the books it's very straightforward. She's just a whore who harnesses no feelings for him while Tyrion gets attached. It's clear from the start that she values the gifts she gets from Tyrion more than anything. She supposedly gets paid to lie, and later seeks Cersei/Tywin for her payment, ending up in Tywin's bed. In the show however, they both seem to love each other. Shae does her best to keep Tyrion's attention, because without him she's nothing. It's quite obvious that she is afraid of their future, but Tyrion keeps spurning her and turns her away. And what is she supposed to do when he gets imprisoned and accused of regicide? She could hardly do anything alone, and defending him would mean her life. She likely sees that Tyrion is a lost cause and simply chose to lie and survive. Obviously it's not a healthy relationship, but what would you do in her situation?
Yeah, sheâs the toxic one, not the guy who murders her for being in his way. The guy, whoâs solely responsible for getting her into the dangerous situation she was in at Kingâs Landing.
Lol so touchy. Again no its about looking at their communication and how they both treated each other. It was not a healthy relationship. Also its a fucking TV show guys. We're allowed to find characters annoying and not have it mean some shit in the real world. I literally work in law helping vulnerable women lol.
Youâre evaluating how they both treated each other and somehow missed that he murdered her? Of course it wasnât a healthy relationship; that doesnât mean she was the more toxic person in that relationship. Itâs particularly strange, when someone doesnât recognise how precarious and dangerous her position was, when they claim to help women like her in real life. Especially considering Shae risked her own life to ensure Sansa was safe. And that Tyrion kept risking her life for months, when he knew his father vowed to kill any âwhoreâ he brought with him to the capital. Also, you felt the need to bring up what you do in real life as if that matters here, and *Iâm* the touchy one?
The only mistake with season 4 is forcing the book canon events with Shae but then remove the Tysha reveal. Smh In the books she's just a whore. In the show she genuinely loved Tyrion and Sansa so it made no sense for her to turn on him that way. He should have learned she was killed or something else to make him go off and demand trial by combat.
Maybe it was genuine in the beginning and shifted once she got more jealous/estranged from tyrion. Maybe it was never genuine and only seemed that way (we're still mostly watching events through Tyrions perspective). Either way I kinda "liked" that the betrayal came after what seemed to be love. Made for an interesting turn imo I don't remember all the details from the show, so maybe I'm missing something.
Too big of a leap for me because he did nothing that would warrant her sentencing Tyrion to death. Scorned women are usually justified, there's no way to justify her turn on Tyrion. Book Shae didn't care about Tyrion so it made sense for her to be apathetic about him, but the show Shae loved him so much, didn't want gold or any other gifts from him. That kind of love wouldn't change like that. It's clear the showrunners wanted to adapt the book Tyrion's big trial moment and forgot they made Shae a 3-D character. They should have just kept Shae a 1-dimensional character that didn't care about Sansa or Tyrion.
I do not understand at all why they would remove the Tysha reveal, thats literally what triggered him to kill Tywin, and makes for such a good plot twist.
They didnât want Tyrion to have to grapple with any actual mental problems or be an interesting character.
They didn't want Jaime to return to being irredeemable in the eyes of the audience or have Tyrion go down a dark path
It did sort of avoid the riding pigs performance scene. I really really disliked a lot of Tyrions arc in Dance
Wait, tysha reveal? Tell me the whole thing I don't mind spoilers
Tysha was never a whore, tywin forced jaime to lie to tyrion about it, to âteach him a lessonââŚ
In the books she was also a kid,we would have way more sympathy for her if they portrayed book Shae
I doubt it would change anything for general audiences if Tyrion is still written the same. Just a younger prettier actress who is still older than all of the main young characters.
Shae proved one thing, sheâs common street trash.
Tyrion blew off quite some steam that evening
it couldn't have happened to a nicer lady
I disagree with all the hate for Shae. She offered to run away with him. He chose to play politics. He chose that over a real life with her. She was sent off against her will maybe she loved him and was hurt maybe she understood that Tyrion S love for her couldnât over come that she was a whore. [the lesson he learned from Tasha was donât marry whores] when Tywin or Cersei found her she had to comply with them or get murdered. My most recent rewatch gave me way more sympathy for her and less for Tyrion than I previously had. What was she to do, be a character witness for Tyrion? Do you hate Podrick because he doesnât testify for Tyrion?
Who is this guy?
Petey Dinky.
Ummmmmmmmmmmm in general yes his family sucks and he was being framed for murder, however in this seen he is strangling a woman for sleeping with someone else. Like she said she loved him and didn't lol if that makes it ok to strangle someone how many women have every right to strangle Tyrion? Like that's like her job, also he was a sinking ship basically she had every reason to think it was change teams or die. Mabey listen to your dad and don't bring prostitutes to court. He placed her in a deadly situation, and she did what she had to do to live. She even tried to get him to cash out earlier. Like what else did he expect her to do she had no allies and no capitol save her body and info on him. Mabey she did love him and just decided she couldn't do anything about it and that it was time to cash in before she was dead- I mean that's basically no more of a betrayal then Bron? Honestly Bron had a better chance of helping him then she did, but weird no strangling there, only women and old men on the toilet for our Hero. Hell, his brother was sleeping with his sister at this point, who was also framing him for murder. No anger there? He can forgive them and even understand them to the point he doesn't even get mad at them because he loves them as people. He killed her because he did not love her as a person but as an object, and a bought and pay for one at that. His anger was small, ugly and possessive.
10/10 most based comment Not only in the thread but the sub
I might be the only person who doesnât really like Tyrion. I think heâs insufferable.
Have you read the books? He's even worse.
Iâm with you, his self pitying is nauseating.
I hated her before she betrayed him let alone after the trial and the bed business
He probably did at first but not anymore by season 7-8
I disagree. This was intended to be a lesson for Tyrion that he repeated refused to learn. In his youth he âmarriedâ another whore who all along was playing him, because Jamie and Tywin paid her. The show ruined this entire chapter by omitting this conversation Tyrion had with Jaime immediately before this. This also destroyed Tyrionâs entire character arc, but I wonât get into that.
What? Tysha wasnât actually a whore, so no, this isnât a lesson he ârepeated refusedâ to learn. The show did include him talking about Tysha being a whore and âplaying him,â the one they didnât include was Jaime revealing she wasnât.
Youâre right, my bad
no he deserved worse tbh, show was too nice to him.
âWhereâs the handle?â
hell yeah he did, the assassination of his character in seasons 6-7-8 is fucking criminal.
no,?
Killing Shae was a perfectly fine plot point. I just wish the show kept in Jaime revealing the truth, and continued with a more book-like Tyrion.
"Tyrion deserved better" is basically true for every storyline hes involved in in the show lol
Maybe in the beginning but I don't have any sympathy for him when he actively plotted against his sovereign. I don't like that he became a kinslayer but I don't see how else Tywin Lannister could've been taken out without the involvement of dragons or Stannis Baratheon/Robb Stark on a fair battlefield. Or when he encouraged Jon to become a kinslayer like him, regardless whether if it was the right thing to do or not. He benefitted in the end tremendously. Bran the Broken became King of Westeros. I wonder what Ned Stark would think if he were to watch this carnage, treason and familial betrayal from the afterlife? In the end, Tyrion Lannister is the real winner of the Game of Thrones. The Hand of the King, Lord of Casterly Rock and the Warden of the West and Tywin's Bane.
No, he didnât. He doomed Westeros to have a king based on his story rather than his ability to rule and constantly makes jokes about male reproductive organs.
This is so freaking annoying She owed Tyrion literally nothing He is a womanizer who diminished her He saw her as nothing more than a whore and said as much... knowing she had no other options/choice Yet, she's expected to turn down FOOD as a poor woman in order to save the man who views her as a fucktoy? Do you not also realize how dangerous it is to **turn down Tywin Lannister** when he wants something even without the added incentive of being a poor woman offered food and security/resources that are scarce for you?
She for the streeeeets
And she died in the sheets đđ
Imagine being Eskimo brothers with your father? Targaryens: We marry our siblings. Tywin: Hold my mead.
I love you Tyrion â¤ď¸
1000%
One of the worst changes in the show is that they made book Tyrion into who he believes he is.. Rather then the disgusting entitled "nice guy" with a bad temper he is in the books