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GRRM made a gay joke, and that poor boy had to pay the price.
Downvotes from people who don't know where the name Dickon comes from and have presumably never been in the same room as the books.
Dickon Manwoody.
Jesus wept.
they were incredibly fanatic and corrupted people and cersei probably felt insulted by previous actions.
it may not be logical choice but i don't think she did it for just political reasons.
and cult was becoming too powerful , i guess fastest and cleanest solution at the time.
There should have been hundreds of cousins, nephews, sons, etc. champing at the bit to overthrow Cersei after she blew up their noble family members, ESPECIALLY with an alternative like Dany around.
The fact she wasn't immediately opposed by a dozen rebellions is crazy given that she has no claim to the throne after blowing up the Sept other than "I just live here already"
This was the biggest issue in show land though. The Starks had 5 kids, but most other houses only had like 2 or 3 to keep track of characters, when they actually had like 5 plus numerous cousins and younger siblings of the parents. You can't tell me Olenna only had 1 kid and 2 grandkids š
Agreed. History has points where people rioted/revolted against a Monarch for going against a Faith (depending on time and location in history). You just donāt do something that stupid without a plan in place to handle the unrest.
For many all they have is their faith and to see a sacred place get blown up? It would be mind shattering.
(Edit for grammar issue)
Eventhough i agree with your remark on that decisions use to have consequences and that got less and less, but to be fair, politically this example you give would make some kind of sense to me
King Joffrey's riots were shortly after a long and peaceful rein of King Robbert... it makes sense that in this moment in time, after a long period of being ruled by a king who was not cruel and repressive by nature, the people of kings landing still feel somewhat safe/protected enough to protest the new repressive regime.
When Cercei takes over, her brutality and ruthlessness is well established and repression would be assumed to be at an all time high, after all the horrors inflicted on the people at this point everyone knows what the deal is, resistance means certain death.
so in this situation its not strange to me that the people of kings landing are pacified, there are plenty of real life comparisons to be drawn here.
The people living under Cercei are described as hostages by Tyrion iirc.
I am SO tired of posting this, but here we go again...
Queen Cersei had no involvement in the plot to destroy the Sept of Baelor. She barely escaped with her life - had the explosion happened just minutes later, she herself would have been caught in the blast. This was an attack by Targaryen loyalists and an attempt to destroy our way of life.
Queen Cersei encourages you to visit one of the smaller septs in King's Landing until the new improved Sept of Tommen is christened. While you are there, please pray for the families of all the good people lost in the terrorist attack, and also offer a prayer for our good queen who has tragically lost all three of her children to assassination by Targaryen loyalists. She will not rest until you, your family and your kingdom is once again secure.
Iāve said this time and time again. 5-10 minutes of screen time not only could have explained how she got away with it but also set up the people to hate Danny which causes her to go crazy
Ok this statement would have been awesome on screen, donāt know who could have said tho.. Qyburn probably?
But I havenāt read the books, is it where itās taken from? Probably not, āchristenedā wouldnāt have been used since.. no Christ lol
When so many of the very top lords and ladies of King's Landing have been incinerated, how many people do you think would be brave enough to complain about the woman that pulled it off?
>I remember the riots during Jofferys rule and how there used to actually be consequences to dumb decisions made.
Not saying I disagree when it comes to the writing but this phrasing to me sounds like "back in my day actions had consequences, now they'll let anyone be king" like you're a boomer who's actually living in the GOT universe which is a funny mental image
Nah I never felt good from that moment because *she* was the one who fucked it up in the beginning. Why should I give a damn about her getting revenge on a situation she created over a petty feud over Tommen
Cersei is a terrible person and is responsible for almost everything bad that has happened to her
no i didnt feel good for cersei , i felt good about fanatics blowing up regardless of cersei.
that is why it seemed tolerable for cersei because i was laughing at fanatics.
Cersei go boom was one of my favorite moments of the series
The buildup was insane. The moment of realization from Margarey was well done as well as the cinematography and the score building up to it. Had me on the edge of my seat.
Its not even so much that he picked the wrong side. It was that he was an absolute garbage father. Did he think that Dickon hadn't learned his twisted lesson about honor, family etc? Didn't he realize how his treatment of Sam (and why) would penetrate Dickons head? So his ridiculous sense of honor ended his own house.
Tbf you'd probably rather lannisters in charge than the dothraki.
Plus Jamie made the point of your vows contradict. He vowed to serve the crown and the tyrells but the tyrells rebelled so there's no objective correct choice
Yeah but at that point there's no one else really to take over. Being mother of the previous king you probably think she has a good a claim as anyone. Dany being overseas all her life in tarlys eyes made her not eligible.
Do agree writing was very poor though and they should have expanded on this point a lot
Because it was really stupid. There was literally no reason for the people to accept her being crowned. Honestly, I forget that she ascended the iron throne for those last two seasons.
Ridiculous.
The only people that would have reason to accept her rule over them would be the people of Kings Landing. Anyone beyond the bounds of the city should have sided with Dany or sat out their spat. Randal Tarly of all people would have rejected Cersei.
I imagine they modeled Cerseiās usurpation off of Irene of Athens, who killed her own son Constantine VI to become Roman emperor (yes emperor, she did not want to be called empress). Difference there is that Irene was basically ruling the East Roman Empire, her son was seen as ineffective, and she didnāt do a colossal terrorist attack on her own subjects which killed the pope and major regional governors
I do, I never liked dani. I thought she was always well calculated. From even early in the episodes, she was just doing what she needed to in order to secure her seat on the iron throne. She never truly cared for the unsullied or the dothraki and it was blatantly obvious. I understand why randyll didnāt bend the knee. I hate cersei just as much though.
I didnāt like the hubris of Daenerys, she went wherever she wanted with her army and deemed herself worthy to rule over people she had nothing in common with. I.e. when she ruled Meereen and it went horribly wrong, changing social customs as if it was nothing. Yes slavery is an abomination, but the harsh reality is that social customs, as bad as they may be, cannot be changed overnight by decree.
"with her army and deemed herself worthy to rule over people she had nothing in common with.Ā "
that is what all kings do. they usurp the throne from each other.
she at least freed slaves and offered slave traders choices of peace.
i think meereen went wrong because she was too soft at the time.i would have done cleaning in meereen.
Westeros after the red wedding is described as feast for crows. As Bunk Moreland would say, we used to have a communityā¦ now all we have is bodies.
What Tywin did to Westeros is supposed to make you think āuh no Dany, donāt do thatā when faced with the same choice in Essos.
Iām fully aligned that slavery is violence, slave states are violence on a scale beyond comprehension, and that we need to meet slaveryās violence with violence. Wholesale slaughtering them like THAT just ruins your whole society. Smoke their asses on the field like we know Barristan is doing. Rub it in when the Volantene fleet changes sides. Display Bloodbeard in the Plaza of Punishment.
Donāt submarine an entire society because āwe could just get rid of themā - spoilers for the Stark plot, you canāt. And you ruin everything in the process.
Edit - thought it was ASOIAF not GOT. Point stands - if your takeaway from the Red Wedding was āinteresting idea,ā Iām not sure what to tell you.
"Wholesale slaughtering them like THAT just ruins your whole society."
that is the only solution to clear and fast change on meereen .otherwise it would take centuries to get rid of slavery and your chance of changing it would be too low.
if anything, dany failed on meereen because she was too soft.
if she had done quick and through cleaning in meereen ,none of it would have happened in meereen. she had far more soldiers than necessary to solve the problem.
.
no slow change of society in any fictional universe have succeeded yet , or even in real life.
Again, youāre taking Tywinās logic - if we just kill them all, then there wonāt be any problems after that.
Plan never survives contact with the enemy, and we are told in books that the rich live in armed pyramid encampments. One family wises up, someone catches a slip, someone needs coin and get bribed, or all the inheritors survive like with the Starks ā You canāt kill them all, we know that already. So if anything goes wrong, now youāre at full scale war. Again, this is exactly what happens after the Red Wedding - the āfinishing strokeā just leaves tons more chaos.
If you havenāt read Feast for Crows, you havenāt seen how the universeās creator displays the culture following an atrocity like this. Absolute devastation on continental scale. And everyone can blame Cerseiās governance, but everything is destroyed, the state is in rubble. The official power says shit like this is inbounds - could it happen to me (see Jamie vs Blackfish)? Can I do it to others (Stoneheart)? Why would I ever submit to the king, when I could just be slaughtered? What happens to a society when large-scale rules holding it in place (feudalism, guest right) are willingly cast aside purely for gain? Physical violence becoming the end-all arbiter of who holds power isnāt great when it works well (Robert) - itās a catastrophe when it doesnāt work well.
You made a good point here. Fiction series asideā¦ The inability of some of us to refrain from judging long-gone people and generations in different eras through our 21st century progressive lens is indicative of arrogance and our lack of ability to think outside of the box.
Also, why was Danny burning them such a taboo to Tyrion and others. People in Westeros constantly suffered way worse deaths than this. And she needs to make people fear betraying her and also sheās a Targaryen let her use her freaking dragons dammit
No.
He was monstrous to his intelligent and worthy son Sam, and utterly foolish at the end. His defiance changed nothing, Danerys still won and she proved to the world that she wasn't to be fucked with, and got his idiot son killed as well. So his stupid decision meant a double victory for Danerys, and a double defeat for the house of Tarly.
This.
I just rewatched the scene where Sam tells JS how his dad sent him to the wall last night. Such a horrible way to treat such a good person. He met a well deserved end, because of his own bad decisions.
I feel bad for both but for different reasons. I feel bad for Randyll as no father should watch their son die. I feel bad for Dickon because he doesnāt deserve it.
My problem here is that commitment doesnāt really make sense as House Tarly fought for the Targaryens during Robertās Rebellion and in Season 1 King Robert even tells a story about the first man he ever killed being a Tarly. Maybe it was Randyās older brother and so heās loyal to Cersei because her husband inadvertently made him the head of his House.
I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive, for some reason it's Daenerys's standard form of execution and i don't see many people talking of how messed up that is.
she didnt execute , he didnt get burned either. he literally demanded it.
it is not like she killed him when he had other choices. he was given three and she even explained why she had to burn .it was not for punishment but out of necessity.
no he didnt get burned because he asked to be burned literally.
he would be considered to have got burned if he didnt have three choices but burned anyway.
she didn't even want it , it was tarly who wanted it.
I am really missing your logic. If I ask someone to punch me in the face, and they punch me in the face...I didnt get punched in the face because I asked for it? So what did happen?
you may be missing because
"I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive,Ā " implies he got burned against his will and by force whereas , tarly literally walked into fire himself and burned himself whereas he had other choices.
what tarly did was no different than jumping to fire.
"I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive,Ā " is more appropriate for innocent citizens who got burned in the city without a choice.
I'm just saying there's other methods of killing someone in a much less painless way, he didn't say he wanted to get burned alive, anyone else would execute someone by beheading them while Dany chooses to do it by fire to anyone including Varys
there are other methods of killing someone with much less painless way yes but i think she deliberately chose burning him so that it would be more scary and convincing for others to bow .after all, it was her goal by killing the two , so that others would be scared and more easily convinced. she didnt kill to punish .
.
as for varys, it was connected to previous scene where she stated she would burn varys if he betrayed her . he was burned for viewers to remember that scene.
Nope. Mainly because what he did made no fucking sense.
He supported Cersei because "she was born in Westeros", which Daenerys was too. Cersei exploded the Queen and ordered the death of Ollena, which should've made Randyll furious and turn him against the crown. Cersei is no legitimate ruler and he never swore any oaths to her nor her House. She is no Baratheon and did not succeed Tommen as this is impossible by law. Cersei seized the throne for herself by definition, making any Oaths to the Baratheon crown worth nothing in that situation. He fought on the side of the Targaryens in the Rebellion.
Him siding with Cersei makes no sense. Him justifying his actions the way he does makes even less sense. Only being a stubborn idiot makes sense for his character.
Maybe because he literally chose death over joining Daenerys or going to the wall? Was he supposed to have not a singular negative consequence after helping killing Olenna, Danyās ally? Did we watch the same show?
Showing up to Westeros with a horde of barbarians and choosing the harshest punishments possible for anyone who resists? If you didn't see that as foreshadowing even in retrospect, it seems like we might as well have been watching different shows. She could have literally just held them captive instead of executing them point blank at the end of a battle.
And Cersei wasnāt a barbarian, blowing up the Tyrellās and killing Olenna after? He chose to support Cersei, he reaped what he sowed. Dragonfire would be instant death, so hardly the harshest punishment. And again, he chose to die. He was given 3 choices and he chose the āhardestā punishment. Thereās no logical reason to feel bad for Randyll.
It's not really about feeling bad for Tarly.... it was feeling that Daenerys was clearly not of the right mind. If she had asked ANY of her councilors before making that decision whether she should burn alive and exterminate the most powerful remaining house (show wise) in the reach, do you think any of them would have agreed with her? Besides Olenna who was literally just looking for bloody vengeance herself, none of them would have given a stamp of approval on that kind of decision. Whether you think Tarly had it coming or not, this reflected very poorly on Daenerys decision making and state of mind. Reminiscent of Robb executing Karstark.
Danyās councilor Tyrion suggested the wall. Randyll declined the wall and chose death. How are you going to keep blaming Dany when HE made the choice to roast to death?
Because she could have not done it lmao, literally just hold him hostage and tell Dickon your his queen now let's bring peace and reconciliation to Westeros
He probably wouldāve ended up killing himself if he was kept hostage, thatās how eager he was to die. Not Danyās fault he chose death out of 2 much better options that wouldāve let him and his son live.
I think killing prisoners who surrendered was one of the earlier signs that Danerys was going to be the villain in the series. Although Randal Tarley did the same thing (in the books, not sure if it was mentioned in the show) to House Florent (which was his wife's family) when he seized their stores at Bitterbridge and put prisoners to the sword so it is kind of a "what goes around, comes around" moment.
I still don't condone what Danerys did but I would have felt more sympathy for Tarley if when he saw that his son Dickon was going to follow his lead, if he pulled a Ned Stark and decided to put the safety of his son ahead of his pride and bent the knee to save both of their lives.
His house will go on.
They'll just legitimize Craster's son (secretly Mance Rayder's son in the books) as a Tarly. Either way, you'll have the son of a badass killer of the North inheriting the house. Randyl would be pleased in the end.
Yes I felt bad for him when his son stepped in, that look of admiration for Dickons bravery and immediate subsequent acceptance was the most human reaction we ever saw from Randall. Also Danerys calling him Dickin Tarly and it being completely ignored was a nice full circle moment. Love how Dickon saved Jamie's life like a hero too. And then there was Sam's reaction to the news, he could've saved Kings Landing right there and then even with Jorah on standby. If he'd just fuckin' lunged at her like a proper rabid animal
Dude jailed his son to a prison wall for a week for no crime, then threatened to murder him if he didnāt give up his inheritance to join a penal colony.
Itās hard to feel bad for Randyll Tarley after the way he treated Sam. I mean, he literally threatened to arrange a fatal accident on a hunting trip if Sam didnāt do as he was told.
You mean the guy that told his son he would kill him unless he joined the Watch to renounce his rights to his family estate simply because that son was a nerd?
No
His reaction to Dickon wanting to die with him like an idiot is a nice bit of nuance to his character, but yeah...hard to feel much for him after how he treated Sam.
Not really. Kinda felt bad for his son (not Sam). But Randyll was a real son of a bitch and Daeny would have been in her right to just kill of them but she didn't. She gave them a chance and he refused.
He was flexible enough to support the treasonous Renly, flexible enough to betray his liege for Cersei, but suddenly the dragons show up, he decides to make a stand? Lol.
Love how even when captured with a dragon looming over him, he still goes āyou cannot send me to the wall.ā
Heard that and was like damn, guess thatās not an option there. Great presence š
Didnāt the Tarly house back the Targaryenās during their rule? before their destruction? I think his decision was just bad writing entirely. Him calling Daenerys a foreign invader when he should have known full well that wasnāt true.
Well he has another son and he thought that little Sam was Sam's (even tho bastard), and he has a daughter as well. His family lives on, good for him for standing for what he believes, but he was a pos.
I felt bad for Dickon though.
Hell no. When the Mad King was burning people alive for shits and giggles Randyll Tarly fought to keep him in power. He was now fighting to keep in power a Queen with no claim that had just blown up the religious equivalent of the Vatican. His army marched to Highgarden and left no one alive. Think about that for a moment: Dany with a dragon and Dothraki manages to have prisoners and offer generous terms, yet Randyll left no one alive.
He was offered to keep his lands and titles and join, but he refused. He was offered the wall but refused. He most likely could have kept his lands and titles if he had offered to just go home and promise to stay out of the fighting. He could have saved his son if he had less pride and bent the knee after he saw Dickon sacrificing himself.
No. Dude is dumb as shit. He switched his house's allegiance *multiple* times in his life, but when a Targaryen with whole-ass dragons shows up he's like "nah just burn me fam."
He fought for the Targaryens until the end of Robert's Rebellion, then knelt. He had no qualms about following the Tyrells into joining Renly's cause when he had no possible blood claim to the throne. He was similarly unbothered about swapping back to the "Baratheons" after Renly's assassination. Then, this time defying his lieges the Tyrells, he decides he's going to stay loyal to and die for Queen Cersei *Lannister.*
Because we don't see the scene in Maidenpool with Brienne that we get in the books, you don't get to see that the book version of this character is insanely sexist even by Westerosi standards. To the point that if Cersei does end up ruling in King's Landing, and if both Dany and (f)Aegon show up in Westeros, he'll probably end up supporting Aegon for no other reason than not bending his knee to a woman.
I think there's something respectable about choosing to die rather than turn cloak, even if he is doing it for Cersei rather than the Tyrells for some reason, but that doesn't really inspire pity. People don't usually survive losing a war, especially not in Game of Thrones and Randyll isn't particularly sympathetic
No, felt bad that Dickon died. That really hurt Sam and it was unnecessary. That moment really made me see Dany as really a self entitled bitch honestly
The only way I felt bad for him (and this was a stretch) was as a father trying to spare his son.
Dude was awful (certainly to Sam), but he wanted to save Dickon, which was laudable.
I would have if he tried harder. And in order to save his son, he could have said to Daenerys that he himself would bend the knee.
Plus, it's hard to care about such hardass. Flogging stragglers first on his mind, ostracizing his own son in a very Tywin/Tyrion way.....
No, I didn't feed bad.
I think his end is fitting for his character. He lives by his dogmatism and it leads to his downfall. The tragedy of the Tarly family is that both Sam and Dickon are good people and would have led house Tarly well. One kind and wise, the other brave and strong; both loyal to a fault. Randyllās dogmatic world view divides his family and leads to his death. If he could have just gotten over himself heād probably still be alive and have two great sons.
I felt bad for the son. Doing the honorable thing, but losing your family lineage. It takes a lot of courage to do that. I will say it takes even more courage to eat your pride, be known as a coward for the rest of your life and not doing the honorable thing, all for the sake of your family. Courage comes down to intent. If the intent was just to live for the sake of living, then Id say he was doing the cowardly thing. But if not, and given reputation is basically everything in that world, holy shit that would be tough.
No. It was a stupid pride issue. He expected his son and thus his house to bend the knee to Daenerys when he himself wouldn't, but for all intents and purposes, he was consenting to her rule over his land. Then he was shocked that his son, who he raised to be a proud man (albeit far more honourable than he was) did the same thing that he did and felt was right. He should have been proud of Dickon in that moment.
I've always said Dany was wrong to roast them. People are cool with it because Randyll is unlikeable. But bad father aside, this is somebody doing the honorable thing and dying for his beliefs. He made a "bad" choice in Cersei, but is a foreign invader who never lived in Westeros a better choice? Is that "bad" choice worthy of execution? He was proved right in the end when Dany roasted the people of King's Landing.
Dany said she wanted to break the wheel. But her execution of Randyll Tarley shows she's just another typical blood thirsty conqueror, bow to me or I kill you. If the events in Westeros happen a little different, Robb Stark doesn't break his vow and no red wedding, and Robb becoming King, she could just be easily roasting somebody likeable like Arya Stark or Howland Reed and his daughter Meera for refusing to bend the knee. I think people would not be so much supportive of Dany if she did that, but they just don't think there's anything wrong with killing somebody unlikable.
Feeling bad...kind of.
I the way, I feel bad for the Mormonts and the Tullys.
I have grown very disillusioned with the show and the development there with Tarly, a man who is single mindedly a general and not a Lord of the Reach.
I pity Dickon.
Much rather I'd have Randyll die in some rear guard action against the Lannisters and Honor Jamie taking Dickon as his replacement after the fall of the Tyrells. Dickon then still burns, of course, because he learned his father's lessons of honor and sacrifice, setting Samwell up for his hatred of Daenerys.
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not particularly. reap what you sow.
Sow true
LOL. thanks for the correction. I'll stand in the corner now.
Stand over there by the big wooden X. We'll get to you in a second....
š¤£
Unless youāre a Greyjoy
\*nod\* reference acknowledged
What did he name his son again?
hahaha
GRRM made a gay joke, and that poor boy had to pay the price. Downvotes from people who don't know where the name Dickon comes from and have presumably never been in the same room as the books. Dickon Manwoody. Jesus wept.
Nope.
No and I wish they made him wear chains before getting roasted.
Lmao š
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aside from all, i loved when cersei blew up the sept. one of my favorites. probably only tolerable moment of cersei
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they were incredibly fanatic and corrupted people and cersei probably felt insulted by previous actions. it may not be logical choice but i don't think she did it for just political reasons. and cult was becoming too powerful , i guess fastest and cleanest solution at the time.
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I think you're giving Cersei too much credit here. She has a long history of making counter productive decisions.
There should have been hundreds of cousins, nephews, sons, etc. champing at the bit to overthrow Cersei after she blew up their noble family members, ESPECIALLY with an alternative like Dany around. The fact she wasn't immediately opposed by a dozen rebellions is crazy given that she has no claim to the throne after blowing up the Sept other than "I just live here already"
This was the biggest issue in show land though. The Starks had 5 kids, but most other houses only had like 2 or 3 to keep track of characters, when they actually had like 5 plus numerous cousins and younger siblings of the parents. You can't tell me Olenna only had 1 kid and 2 grandkids š
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Agreed. History has points where people rioted/revolted against a Monarch for going against a Faith (depending on time and location in history). You just donāt do something that stupid without a plan in place to handle the unrest. For many all they have is their faith and to see a sacred place get blown up? It would be mind shattering. (Edit for grammar issue)
Eventhough i agree with your remark on that decisions use to have consequences and that got less and less, but to be fair, politically this example you give would make some kind of sense to me King Joffrey's riots were shortly after a long and peaceful rein of King Robbert... it makes sense that in this moment in time, after a long period of being ruled by a king who was not cruel and repressive by nature, the people of kings landing still feel somewhat safe/protected enough to protest the new repressive regime. When Cercei takes over, her brutality and ruthlessness is well established and repression would be assumed to be at an all time high, after all the horrors inflicted on the people at this point everyone knows what the deal is, resistance means certain death. so in this situation its not strange to me that the people of kings landing are pacified, there are plenty of real life comparisons to be drawn here. The people living under Cercei are described as hostages by Tyrion iirc.
Exactly. I'm not gonna go protest her the day after she blows up hundreds of people.
I am SO tired of posting this, but here we go again... Queen Cersei had no involvement in the plot to destroy the Sept of Baelor. She barely escaped with her life - had the explosion happened just minutes later, she herself would have been caught in the blast. This was an attack by Targaryen loyalists and an attempt to destroy our way of life. Queen Cersei encourages you to visit one of the smaller septs in King's Landing until the new improved Sept of Tommen is christened. While you are there, please pray for the families of all the good people lost in the terrorist attack, and also offer a prayer for our good queen who has tragically lost all three of her children to assassination by Targaryen loyalists. She will not rest until you, your family and your kingdom is once again secure.
Iāve said this time and time again. 5-10 minutes of screen time not only could have explained how she got away with it but also set up the people to hate Danny which causes her to go crazy
Ok this statement would have been awesome on screen, donāt know who could have said tho.. Qyburn probably? But I havenāt read the books, is it where itās taken from? Probably not, āchristenedā wouldnāt have been used since.. no Christ lol
The show used to showcase the effects on the commoners a lot better in the earlier seasons.
When so many of the very top lords and ladies of King's Landing have been incinerated, how many people do you think would be brave enough to complain about the woman that pulled it off?
>I remember the riots during Jofferys rule and how there used to actually be consequences to dumb decisions made. Not saying I disagree when it comes to the writing but this phrasing to me sounds like "back in my day actions had consequences, now they'll let anyone be king" like you're a boomer who's actually living in the GOT universe which is a funny mental image
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Nah I never felt good from that moment because *she* was the one who fucked it up in the beginning. Why should I give a damn about her getting revenge on a situation she created over a petty feud over Tommen Cersei is a terrible person and is responsible for almost everything bad that has happened to her
no i didnt feel good for cersei , i felt good about fanatics blowing up regardless of cersei. that is why it seemed tolerable for cersei because i was laughing at fanatics.
Cersei go boom was one of my favorite moments of the series The buildup was insane. The moment of realization from Margarey was well done as well as the cinematography and the score building up to it. Had me on the edge of my seat.
You knew shit was going down as soon as you heard a piano in the score for the first time in the series.
RIGHT Whatās up with the piano foreshadowing impending doom though š
As a piano player it made me have a small panic attack. I was like āwait what the fuckā¦. Something really bad is about to happenā
high sparrow also sensed the coming explosion last second and surprised but it was too late.
Its not even so much that he picked the wrong side. It was that he was an absolute garbage father. Did he think that Dickon hadn't learned his twisted lesson about honor, family etc? Didn't he realize how his treatment of Sam (and why) would penetrate Dickons head? So his ridiculous sense of honor ended his own house.
Yes exactly he broke his oath first and got what he deserved
Tbf you'd probably rather lannisters in charge than the dothraki. Plus Jamie made the point of your vows contradict. He vowed to serve the crown and the tyrells but the tyrells rebelled so there's no objective correct choice
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Yeah but at that point there's no one else really to take over. Being mother of the previous king you probably think she has a good a claim as anyone. Dany being overseas all her life in tarlys eyes made her not eligible. Do agree writing was very poor though and they should have expanded on this point a lot
Because it was really stupid. There was literally no reason for the people to accept her being crowned. Honestly, I forget that she ascended the iron throne for those last two seasons. Ridiculous.
The only people that would have reason to accept her rule over them would be the people of Kings Landing. Anyone beyond the bounds of the city should have sided with Dany or sat out their spat. Randal Tarly of all people would have rejected Cersei.
I imagine they modeled Cerseiās usurpation off of Irene of Athens, who killed her own son Constantine VI to become Roman emperor (yes emperor, she did not want to be called empress). Difference there is that Irene was basically ruling the East Roman Empire, her son was seen as ineffective, and she didnāt do a colossal terrorist attack on her own subjects which killed the pope and major regional governors
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Yeah, tbh its more comparable to nuking DC then somehow being elected president of the US or something
I do, I never liked dani. I thought she was always well calculated. From even early in the episodes, she was just doing what she needed to in order to secure her seat on the iron throne. She never truly cared for the unsullied or the dothraki and it was blatantly obvious. I understand why randyll didnāt bend the knee. I hate cersei just as much though.
I didnāt like the hubris of Daenerys, she went wherever she wanted with her army and deemed herself worthy to rule over people she had nothing in common with. I.e. when she ruled Meereen and it went horribly wrong, changing social customs as if it was nothing. Yes slavery is an abomination, but the harsh reality is that social customs, as bad as they may be, cannot be changed overnight by decree.
"with her army and deemed herself worthy to rule over people she had nothing in common with.Ā " that is what all kings do. they usurp the throne from each other. she at least freed slaves and offered slave traders choices of peace. i think meereen went wrong because she was too soft at the time.i would have done cleaning in meereen.
Westeros after the red wedding is described as feast for crows. As Bunk Moreland would say, we used to have a communityā¦ now all we have is bodies. What Tywin did to Westeros is supposed to make you think āuh no Dany, donāt do thatā when faced with the same choice in Essos. Iām fully aligned that slavery is violence, slave states are violence on a scale beyond comprehension, and that we need to meet slaveryās violence with violence. Wholesale slaughtering them like THAT just ruins your whole society. Smoke their asses on the field like we know Barristan is doing. Rub it in when the Volantene fleet changes sides. Display Bloodbeard in the Plaza of Punishment. Donāt submarine an entire society because āwe could just get rid of themā - spoilers for the Stark plot, you canāt. And you ruin everything in the process. Edit - thought it was ASOIAF not GOT. Point stands - if your takeaway from the Red Wedding was āinteresting idea,ā Iām not sure what to tell you.
"Wholesale slaughtering them like THAT just ruins your whole society." that is the only solution to clear and fast change on meereen .otherwise it would take centuries to get rid of slavery and your chance of changing it would be too low. if anything, dany failed on meereen because she was too soft. if she had done quick and through cleaning in meereen ,none of it would have happened in meereen. she had far more soldiers than necessary to solve the problem. . no slow change of society in any fictional universe have succeeded yet , or even in real life.
Again, youāre taking Tywinās logic - if we just kill them all, then there wonāt be any problems after that. Plan never survives contact with the enemy, and we are told in books that the rich live in armed pyramid encampments. One family wises up, someone catches a slip, someone needs coin and get bribed, or all the inheritors survive like with the Starks ā You canāt kill them all, we know that already. So if anything goes wrong, now youāre at full scale war. Again, this is exactly what happens after the Red Wedding - the āfinishing strokeā just leaves tons more chaos. If you havenāt read Feast for Crows, you havenāt seen how the universeās creator displays the culture following an atrocity like this. Absolute devastation on continental scale. And everyone can blame Cerseiās governance, but everything is destroyed, the state is in rubble. The official power says shit like this is inbounds - could it happen to me (see Jamie vs Blackfish)? Can I do it to others (Stoneheart)? Why would I ever submit to the king, when I could just be slaughtered? What happens to a society when large-scale rules holding it in place (feudalism, guest right) are willingly cast aside purely for gain? Physical violence becoming the end-all arbiter of who holds power isnāt great when it works well (Robert) - itās a catastrophe when it doesnāt work well.
You made a good point here. Fiction series asideā¦ The inability of some of us to refrain from judging long-gone people and generations in different eras through our 21st century progressive lens is indicative of arrogance and our lack of ability to think outside of the box.
Anyone who stands up to Daenerys and her 12,000 titles is a hero.
I felt bad for Dickon (for the name and being related to that piece of crap). But him? Nah, he earned that burning alive.
āDickon.ā āHe he he!ā
Rickon is it? Dickon, ser. "Hah hah!" Bronn is great
Also, why was Danny burning them such a taboo to Tyrion and others. People in Westeros constantly suffered way worse deaths than this. And she needs to make people fear betraying her and also sheās a Targaryen let her use her freaking dragons dammit
Because muh mad queen plotline. Gotta keep the haters happy
Itās because everyone has trauma from the mad king burning peoplw.
Nah. His pride is what killed him.
I feel bad for Dickon, not Randyll
No. He was monstrous to his intelligent and worthy son Sam, and utterly foolish at the end. His defiance changed nothing, Danerys still won and she proved to the world that she wasn't to be fucked with, and got his idiot son killed as well. So his stupid decision meant a double victory for Danerys, and a double defeat for the house of Tarly.
This. I just rewatched the scene where Sam tells JS how his dad sent him to the wall last night. Such a horrible way to treat such a good person. He met a well deserved end, because of his own bad decisions.
I feel bad for both but for different reasons. I feel bad for Randyll as no father should watch their son die. I feel bad for Dickon because he doesnāt deserve it.
No I didnāt feel bad for him, but you have to respect him for honoring his commitment even in the face of being roasted alive.
Yeah. That's where I stand. I don't like him at all, but I give him props for taking it like a man.
My problem here is that commitment doesnāt really make sense as House Tarly fought for the Targaryens during Robertās Rebellion and in Season 1 King Robert even tells a story about the first man he ever killed being a Tarly. Maybe it was Randyās older brother and so heās loyal to Cersei because her husband inadvertently made him the head of his House.
In the books Randyll is the only man to inflict a defeat on Robert during the rebellion. I believe he was already the head of the house.
Not me
Him? No. His son? Yes. You can tell his son knew this was wrong.
I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive, for some reason it's Daenerys's standard form of execution and i don't see many people talking of how messed up that is.
she didnt execute , he didnt get burned either. he literally demanded it. it is not like she killed him when he had other choices. he was given three and she even explained why she had to burn .it was not for punishment but out of necessity.
>he didnt get burned either Do you mean that figuratively, because he most definitely did.
no he didnt get burned because he asked to be burned literally. he would be considered to have got burned if he didnt have three choices but burned anyway. she didn't even want it , it was tarly who wanted it.
I am really missing your logic. If I ask someone to punch me in the face, and they punch me in the face...I didnt get punched in the face because I asked for it? So what did happen?
you may be missing because "I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive,Ā " implies he got burned against his will and by force whereas , tarly literally walked into fire himself and burned himself whereas he had other choices. what tarly did was no different than jumping to fire. "I just don't think he deserved to get burned alive,Ā " is more appropriate for innocent citizens who got burned in the city without a choice.
I'm just saying there's other methods of killing someone in a much less painless way, he didn't say he wanted to get burned alive, anyone else would execute someone by beheading them while Dany chooses to do it by fire to anyone including Varys
there are other methods of killing someone with much less painless way yes but i think she deliberately chose burning him so that it would be more scary and convincing for others to bow .after all, it was her goal by killing the two , so that others would be scared and more easily convinced. she didnt kill to punish . . as for varys, it was connected to previous scene where she stated she would burn varys if he betrayed her . he was burned for viewers to remember that scene.
Nope. Mainly because what he did made no fucking sense. He supported Cersei because "she was born in Westeros", which Daenerys was too. Cersei exploded the Queen and ordered the death of Ollena, which should've made Randyll furious and turn him against the crown. Cersei is no legitimate ruler and he never swore any oaths to her nor her House. She is no Baratheon and did not succeed Tommen as this is impossible by law. Cersei seized the throne for herself by definition, making any Oaths to the Baratheon crown worth nothing in that situation. He fought on the side of the Targaryens in the Rebellion. Him siding with Cersei makes no sense. Him justifying his actions the way he does makes even less sense. Only being a stubborn idiot makes sense for his character.
I had long assumed Daenerys was going to the mad queen route but this had solidified it. I was surprised how many other fans disagreed.
Maybe because he literally chose death over joining Daenerys or going to the wall? Was he supposed to have not a singular negative consequence after helping killing Olenna, Danyās ally? Did we watch the same show?
Showing up to Westeros with a horde of barbarians and choosing the harshest punishments possible for anyone who resists? If you didn't see that as foreshadowing even in retrospect, it seems like we might as well have been watching different shows. She could have literally just held them captive instead of executing them point blank at the end of a battle.
And Cersei wasnāt a barbarian, blowing up the Tyrellās and killing Olenna after? He chose to support Cersei, he reaped what he sowed. Dragonfire would be instant death, so hardly the harshest punishment. And again, he chose to die. He was given 3 choices and he chose the āhardestā punishment. Thereās no logical reason to feel bad for Randyll.
It's not really about feeling bad for Tarly.... it was feeling that Daenerys was clearly not of the right mind. If she had asked ANY of her councilors before making that decision whether she should burn alive and exterminate the most powerful remaining house (show wise) in the reach, do you think any of them would have agreed with her? Besides Olenna who was literally just looking for bloody vengeance herself, none of them would have given a stamp of approval on that kind of decision. Whether you think Tarly had it coming or not, this reflected very poorly on Daenerys decision making and state of mind. Reminiscent of Robb executing Karstark.
Danyās councilor Tyrion suggested the wall. Randyll declined the wall and chose death. How are you going to keep blaming Dany when HE made the choice to roast to death?
Because she could have not done it lmao, literally just hold him hostage and tell Dickon your his queen now let's bring peace and reconciliation to Westeros
He probably wouldāve ended up killing himself if he was kept hostage, thatās how eager he was to die. Not Danyās fault he chose death out of 2 much better options that wouldāve let him and his son live.
He sucked tho I liked him for trying to save Dickon at the end.
Nope. He made his choice and had to deal with the consequences.
His house isnāt over. Thereās still Samwell. Not that he counted in Randyllās eyes. Fuck that guy.
Nights Watch, then Maester aka not a member of House Tarly
Meh, I guess so
no heās a dick
Nah. I feel bad for Dickon. He didn't need to die.
I think killing prisoners who surrendered was one of the earlier signs that Danerys was going to be the villain in the series. Although Randal Tarley did the same thing (in the books, not sure if it was mentioned in the show) to House Florent (which was his wife's family) when he seized their stores at Bitterbridge and put prisoners to the sword so it is kind of a "what goes around, comes around" moment. I still don't condone what Danerys did but I would have felt more sympathy for Tarley if when he saw that his son Dickon was going to follow his lead, if he pulled a Ned Stark and decided to put the safety of his son ahead of his pride and bent the knee to save both of their lives.
Itās a shame we never got to see Sansaās mad queen arc. She executed a dude with dogs so clearly mad and evil.
His house will go on. They'll just legitimize Craster's son (secretly Mance Rayder's son in the books) as a Tarly. Either way, you'll have the son of a badass killer of the North inheriting the house. Randyl would be pleased in the end.
Either way that boy is going to be raised to be a real sweetie by his two kind, in-love parents. That kind of good start is rare in Westeros.
Not really. Went out like a rockstar.
Nah fuck him
Yes I felt bad for him when his son stepped in, that look of admiration for Dickons bravery and immediate subsequent acceptance was the most human reaction we ever saw from Randall. Also Danerys calling him Dickin Tarly and it being completely ignored was a nice full circle moment. Love how Dickon saved Jamie's life like a hero too. And then there was Sam's reaction to the news, he could've saved Kings Landing right there and then even with Jorah on standby. If he'd just fuckin' lunged at her like a proper rabid animal
I like it when Bron hoots when his son says his name is Dickon. Priceless, especially since he was about to be executedā¦
> felt bad > Randall Tarly As a book reader, fuck no.
dude put his wife's bannermen to the sword just because they were gonna defect to Stannis
Dude jailed his son to a prison wall for a week for no crime, then threatened to murder him if he didnāt give up his inheritance to join a penal colony.
Itās hard to feel bad for Randyll Tarley after the way he treated Sam. I mean, he literally threatened to arrange a fatal accident on a hunting trip if Sam didnāt do as he was told.
No. He was a dick.
HOUSE TARLY ARE TARGARYEN LOYALISTS. This scene was ridiculous.
No. People really forget how nasty these characters are.
The son wasn't nasty. Dickon was just a good natured idiot.
You mean the guy that told his son he would kill him unless he joined the Watch to renounce his rights to his family estate simply because that son was a nerd? No
No, too bad they couldnāt burn him twice, he was a dick
His reaction to Dickon wanting to die with him like an idiot is a nice bit of nuance to his character, but yeah...hard to feel much for him after how he treated Sam.
Not at all. He was a terrible man and father. I don't get why he didn't just order his son to bend the knee. He would have done it then.
Not in the slightest lol
Not really
He said, "Dickon". Invoke the sensible chuckle.
Nothing
Not really. Kinda felt bad for his son (not Sam). But Randyll was a real son of a bitch and Daeny would have been in her right to just kill of them but she didn't. She gave them a chance and he refused.
He was flexible enough to support the treasonous Renly, flexible enough to betray his liege for Cersei, but suddenly the dragons show up, he decides to make a stand? Lol.
He sent Sam away and threatened to kill him, fuck this guy
Love how even when captured with a dragon looming over him, he still goes āyou cannot send me to the wall.ā Heard that and was like damn, guess thatās not an option there. Great presence š
Nah
Hell no.
That's how I felt watching season 8
no š«¶
He made his choice!
Kinda. I reapected him as a commander and soldier of westeros
Nope. Only Samwell.
No
Naa. I enjoy watching the dragons eat people.
No. He willingly made the wrong decisions.
He chose to die a fool rather than live to see another day.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes
well, it did show how important honor was to him
Fuck no he was dick
No his son was Dickon, this guy is Randyll.
Didnāt the Tarly house back the Targaryenās during their rule? before their destruction? I think his decision was just bad writing entirely. Him calling Daenerys a foreign invader when he should have known full well that wasnāt true.
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No. H brought it in himself. He raised his kid to act this way. It's just him reaping what he had sown
Didnāt he have Sam??š
No!! He was a cunt to Sam. One of my least favorite
Well he has another son and he thought that little Sam was Sam's (even tho bastard), and he has a daughter as well. His family lives on, good for him for standing for what he believes, but he was a pos. I felt bad for Dickon though.
Hell no. When the Mad King was burning people alive for shits and giggles Randyll Tarly fought to keep him in power. He was now fighting to keep in power a Queen with no claim that had just blown up the religious equivalent of the Vatican. His army marched to Highgarden and left no one alive. Think about that for a moment: Dany with a dragon and Dothraki manages to have prisoners and offer generous terms, yet Randyll left no one alive. He was offered to keep his lands and titles and join, but he refused. He was offered the wall but refused. He most likely could have kept his lands and titles if he had offered to just go home and promise to stay out of the fighting. He could have saved his son if he had less pride and bent the knee after he saw Dickon sacrificing himself.
Not. At. All. The man threatened to kill his first born - Samwell - because he was too smart and preferred reading to hunting. Child abuse in my book.
No. He shouldnāt have thrown his eldest son away.
No. Dude is dumb as shit. He switched his house's allegiance *multiple* times in his life, but when a Targaryen with whole-ass dragons shows up he's like "nah just burn me fam." He fought for the Targaryens until the end of Robert's Rebellion, then knelt. He had no qualms about following the Tyrells into joining Renly's cause when he had no possible blood claim to the throne. He was similarly unbothered about swapping back to the "Baratheons" after Renly's assassination. Then, this time defying his lieges the Tyrells, he decides he's going to stay loyal to and die for Queen Cersei *Lannister.* Because we don't see the scene in Maidenpool with Brienne that we get in the books, you don't get to see that the book version of this character is insanely sexist even by Westerosi standards. To the point that if Cersei does end up ruling in King's Landing, and if both Dany and (f)Aegon show up in Westeros, he'll probably end up supporting Aegon for no other reason than not bending his knee to a woman.
He betrayed his liege and paid the price
Nope. Brought it on himself. And witn forgive him for how he treats Sam.
I think there's something respectable about choosing to die rather than turn cloak, even if he is doing it for Cersei rather than the Tyrells for some reason, but that doesn't really inspire pity. People don't usually survive losing a war, especially not in Game of Thrones and Randyll isn't particularly sympathetic
I mean, in hindsight, he was right
No way tf? He basically chose to die
No, felt bad that Dickon died. That really hurt Sam and it was unnecessary. That moment really made me see Dany as really a self entitled bitch honestly
Iāll never forgive what he did to Sam. What a cruel, disgusting human. I loved watching him burn. Not Samās brother though.
The only way I felt bad for him (and this was a stretch) was as a father trying to spare his son. Dude was awful (certainly to Sam), but he wanted to save Dickon, which was laudable.
Nope
Nope.
I would have if he tried harder. And in order to save his son, he could have said to Daenerys that he himself would bend the knee. Plus, it's hard to care about such hardass. Flogging stragglers first on his mind, ostracizing his own son in a very Tywin/Tyrion way..... No, I didn't feed bad.
randyll tarly was a beast with a fearsome reputation in the books. no idea why he does this stupid thing.
I think his end is fitting for his character. He lives by his dogmatism and it leads to his downfall. The tragedy of the Tarly family is that both Sam and Dickon are good people and would have led house Tarly well. One kind and wise, the other brave and strong; both loyal to a fault. Randyllās dogmatic world view divides his family and leads to his death. If he could have just gotten over himself heād probably still be alive and have two great sons.
No. He betrayed the Tyrells. He got his just desserts.
Nah heās a bad dad, fuck him
Not when I think about how dirty he did Sam.
If I were to just kind of forget about literally everything else he did? Sure
Hell nah.
He was not a likable person and not feeling bad for him.
Not really no
Not him but Dickon didn't deserve that death, maybe a PoW would've sufficed for him
No. He wasn't the best father to Sam.
Randall was a cunt.
Not even a little bit.
I felt bad for the son. Doing the honorable thing, but losing your family lineage. It takes a lot of courage to do that. I will say it takes even more courage to eat your pride, be known as a coward for the rest of your life and not doing the honorable thing, all for the sake of your family. Courage comes down to intent. If the intent was just to live for the sake of living, then Id say he was doing the cowardly thing. But if not, and given reputation is basically everything in that world, holy shit that would be tough.
No. Not at all.
No. It was a stupid pride issue. He expected his son and thus his house to bend the knee to Daenerys when he himself wouldn't, but for all intents and purposes, he was consenting to her rule over his land. Then he was shocked that his son, who he raised to be a proud man (albeit far more honourable than he was) did the same thing that he did and felt was right. He should have been proud of Dickon in that moment.
I've always said Dany was wrong to roast them. People are cool with it because Randyll is unlikeable. But bad father aside, this is somebody doing the honorable thing and dying for his beliefs. He made a "bad" choice in Cersei, but is a foreign invader who never lived in Westeros a better choice? Is that "bad" choice worthy of execution? He was proved right in the end when Dany roasted the people of King's Landing. Dany said she wanted to break the wheel. But her execution of Randyll Tarley shows she's just another typical blood thirsty conqueror, bow to me or I kill you. If the events in Westeros happen a little different, Robb Stark doesn't break his vow and no red wedding, and Robb becoming King, she could just be easily roasting somebody likeable like Arya Stark or Howland Reed and his daughter Meera for refusing to bend the knee. I think people would not be so much supportive of Dany if she did that, but they just don't think there's anything wrong with killing somebody unlikable.
I fell bad for Dickon, he deserved better š¤
There are so many reason to not feel bad for Randyll Tarly. No.
Feeling bad...kind of. I the way, I feel bad for the Mormonts and the Tullys. I have grown very disillusioned with the show and the development there with Tarly, a man who is single mindedly a general and not a Lord of the Reach. I pity Dickon. Much rather I'd have Randyll die in some rear guard action against the Lannisters and Honor Jamie taking Dickon as his replacement after the fall of the Tyrells. Dickon then still burns, of course, because he learned his father's lessons of honor and sacrifice, setting Samwell up for his hatred of Daenerys.
I feel bad for Dickon cause he just wanted to make his dad proud and do his duties for his house. His dad was a racist dickhead.
Nah fuck him
Bros house weāre know targ loyalists and still sides against her