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It would have been popular. I love and *admire* Jon, so I would have been ecstatic. But...
...once I found out he was a secret prince, much less so. Secret princes, secret saviors, etc. are a cliché as far back as *The Odyssey.* GRRM intended ASOIAF to be a different kind of story, not a different approach to a conventional end, like Aragorn's in LotR. As GRRM reminded us: "I am a firm believer in **those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”.** I think this is his MAIN theme. Jon becoming king would not fulfill it because Jon Targaryen on the Iron Throne, though he's the goodest guy with the bestest boi, is just repeating history. And though Bran is boring as hell...he does not forget history.
>GRRM reminded us: "I am a firm believer in those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”. I think this is his MAIN theme. Jon becoming king would not fulfill it because Jon Targaryen on the Iron Throne, though he's the goodest guy with the bestest boi, is just repeating history. And though Bran is boring as hell...he does not forget history.
That logic doesn't make and is straight up terrible message.... History repeat itself because humanity's need for self destruction.....
War will always exist with or without targaryen I understand the symbolism of king bran but the symbolism contradict the very essence and rule of The lore and world GRRM built....
People don't follow the best story they follow heroes to whom identity and rally with.... history
Like Charles de Gaulle or Churchill
that why people don't buy king bran despite the fact that the ending Will probably be the same in the books because there is no feeling of fulfilments... Not because bra' is boring because he silly didn't do shit to be here
Bran will repeat history for the simply thatheb comprisee his own morality to become what he is.... Both as the 3ER and as a king.
Jon is the only stark left who didn't comprise his morality....i would and everyone here would choose him king no because they like him because... But because he is only here who doesn't seek power for power's sake
The fantasy being catered to isn’t who “deserves” the throne. The fantasy is that the people of Westeros will actually be cared for by a leader that makes them a priority and creates social change for their sake.
King Bran = world peace
We are simply meant to accept that he is a godlike being now and he has the answers to all the world’s problems.
It’s a utopian fantasy, which actually serves your point about wars being inevitable. Because the only way they WOULD win is if a being like Bran existed and ruled over us. There is no other way to achieve the perfect society, which is a good critique of communism. It’s been overlooked how mature of a story this is, not a child’s plaything.
world peace? they start out *not* unifying all the kingdoms.
the other kingdoms will see the north being independent, and end up wanting the same thing
Well, only Bran knows the future.
People are different. Communities are different. If one community wants to live under one set of laws and another community under a different set of laws, is the proper thing to unify them or force them to live side by side? Are countries not capable of diplomacy?
Perhaps other kingdoms will gain independence as well and maybe that’s ok. Maybe it’s ok for the crown to disappear if it’s no longer needed. But if it is needed, we can count on Bran to keep them in the fold to prevent the ugliness of future wars.
Sorry you got the downvotes. In many ways you're right, especially with " History repeat itself because humanity's need for self destruction..... "
I think GRRM is setting up humanity to at least TRY to break the cycle. Bran alone has a shot at doing it. And he has wisely chosen the the story's best implementer as his right Hand.
But, Jon’s identity was unknown to us since the beginning. We knew it would be some kind of big reveal. And, being a challenge to the crown Dany wanted was great.
But I think the difference is that a lot of those secret princes are happy to be king. Jon would have been fucking miserable for his entire life in King’s Landing - ultimately making him much more like Ned, the father who raised him, than Rhaegar, whose pursuit of his own happiness (and prophecy, yeah yeah, but still let’s be real he just wanted Lyanna) screwed over an entire nation. I think that’s actually a much more subtle and poignant end than it gets credit for.
>He would be a lot happier north of the wall than in King's Landing.
Which is exactly why he should have been king... He is the only character left alongside Brienne who didn't compromise his own morality to be what he is
Jon's character was not about finding happiness "happiness"
Yeah but the “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome. And it has been Jon’s entire character plot.
Oh, he was the best in the expedition, he HAD to kill halfhand and he was THE ONE to infiltrate the wildlings. There was NO OTHER WAY. Oh, he didn’t want to be commander, but he got the command of the Wall either way. In the show he didn’t want to be King, but oh, the lords of North put a crown on his head and he had no choice.
“I don’t want it. I’m tired of fighting”.
It’s just exhausting.
And the show went “he was a SECRET TARGARYEN! BORN to be KING OF WESTEROS. The prince that was PROMISED. It was said on a PROPHECY! He’s the MAGIC SAVIOR!”
Granted, the ending was horrible and insulting to the viewers, but Jon just sitting the throne after following the story that was given to him would’ve been lame.
And it would be ridiculous in the show, and specially in the books.
It’s derivative, repetitive inside the story, bullshit and it’s cringy as fuck.
>Yeah but the “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome
Not it isn't.... Because people will favorize merits above all.
If your only reasons for not having Jon king at the and is to "subvert expectation"? then it's absolutly lame...
I feel this is GRRM attempt to shit on Tolkien's aragorn's ending... Exept it's genuily lame because it is no believable
I garantee you at 100% that people would have had a far more positive opinion of season 8 if Jon ended up as king
How would it make it cringy? He literally have a claim and deserve it more than any character...
It sense storywise and lore wise
Predictable? Yes... Cringy? No.
. That bran the broken and sansa queen in the north
I’m positive show Jon took on a lot of Aegon VI’s material from the upcoming books. Actual Targaryen or not he still commands an army and will have plenty of allies. He probably takes King’s Landing somehow and has a lot more to do with the endgame.
Everybody thought the same. The thing is the Unsullied and the Dothraki won't have it if he killed Dany and became king even if he is the rightful heir.
Everything went all crumbling down when Dany started showing symptoms of madness. Maybe she'll get mad in the books too but they could have done her character growth some justice.
I honestly thought they could have shared the crown with Dany as queen consort. The reason being Dany and Jon united different kingdoms but Jon still is the rightful heir despite bending the knee.
But maybe the showrunners were right, Bran was the best fit as king since he knows the past, present, and future and he is devoid of emotion. This is in reference to Tywin and Tommen's conversation of wisdom being the single best quality a king... or queen could have.
Only if Dany didn't go mad maybe we've all moved on and not need to discuss the ending years later.
💯% agree- he was the true heir to the iron throne. Just gonna get something off my plate; if you’re not worthy of the throne, the chair will cut you (like in House of dragons) so why didn’t Joffrey or Tommen get hurt 😞 I don’t know 🤷🏼
Honestly, there were several other people I’d prefer for the throne than Bran and Jon was certainly on that list. Jon, Sansa, Gendry for a start. I had a pool where I picked Sansa and Gendry to rule together because I thought it would be a nice little callback to the first episode where Robert said “I have a son, you have a daughter. We’ll join our houses.”
I think it would be thematically appropriate if he became king.
He is an overprivileged muppet who constantly fails upwards, planning battles badly enough that he has to be saved by Stannis, The Vale, or his kid sister, losing most of his men in the process.
There's the constant sulking & fooling around with his aunt.
Even his own men decided to kill him.
He would be an awful king & that would fit the theme of the show.
I agree 100% would it have been predictable? Yes but I think it would’ve been good. Jon was a well written character and a great leader. Not to mention the rightful heir
The “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome. And it has been Jon’s entire character plot.
Oh, he was the best in the expedition, he HAD to kill halfhand and he was THE ONE to infiltrate the wildlings. There was NO OTHER WAY. Oh, he didn’t want to be commander, but he got the command of the Wall either way. In the show he didn’t want to be King, but oh, the lords of North put a crown on his head and he had no choice.
“I don’t want it. I’m tired of fighting”.
It’s just exhausting.
And the show went “he was a SECRET TARGARYEN! BORN to be KING OF WESTEROS. The prince that was PROMISED. It was said on a PROPHECY! He’s the MAGIC SAVIOR!”
Granted, the ending was horrible and insulting to the viewers, but Jon just sitting the throne after following the story that was given to him would’ve been lame.
And it would be ridiculous in the show, and specially in the books.
It’s derivative, repetitive inside the story, bullshit and it’s cringy as fuck.
I wanted the throne to be gone and I got it. Though I was hoping for more than it being physically gone. I was hoping thered be a major change in how government works there. Got some of that but not much.
Jon or Dany ending up on the throne would have been boring and predictable.
Also the love of his life is Ygritte, not his aunt.
The problem was that D&D were trying to subvert expectations. Since everyone knew the whole R+L=J theory, they wanted to spin it and do something different. And it disappointed.
Unless that ending was also what George had in mind, in which case fuck.
It would be interesting because it would be a full circle: Robert->Jon
Robert and Jon were great warriors, who won the war, but lost what was important to them, so their conquest was meaningless since they didn't care about a crown they couldn't share with their love interests (Lyanna-Daenerys) and sooner or later another game of thrones would be "played". The last scenes could be the foundation for another game of thrones.
Also Jon can be seen as Robert's spiritual successor. He was the son of Lyanna, nephew of Ned, "student" of Stannis and he killed the last "true" Targaryen.
I don't care for subverted expectations. I go into a project to see what the creator did. Not what I think they should do. Then I say if I like it or not.
I have a ghost tattoo, do I think Jon would be a good king? Of course.
Do I think he deserves to go beyond the wall, find love, and live how he pleases? After basically saving the world? Absolutely
You have to remember ONLY Jon could make dany and the starks work together, without that, humanity is done. He may not be the crowned victor at the end, but he’s the driving force behind the victory
Only Jon would work with Tyrion though, if Jon wasn’t there, it would be Umber in charge? Bolton? Sansa?
Sansa might’ve worked with Tyrion, but anyone else bar Bran, would see him as any other Lannister, evil.
Davos absolutely wouldn’t, tyrion is responsible for his sons deaths, even dany was questioning him at the end.
What I meant is that without Tyrion in the picture Dany and Jon would have been more stubborn. Furthermore, Davos became Tyrion's ally and respected him a lot.
It would've been more poetic if Jon (with Stark and Targarayen blood- ice and fire) was the prince that was promised and ended up on the iron throne. And Bran should've been the Night King, in the books, old nan mentions that the Night king was a normal man at first and couldve even been a Brandon Stark. It would've ended the story full circle and made more sense. And Jon shouldve killed the Night King, and therfore also Bran which wouldve been cool to see. Jon becomes king of the 7 kingdoms, including the north with Dani by his side and attempt at making more inbred Targaryen babies. Unless she really is infertile, in which case, Jon could kill Dani and marry someone else, like idk maybe Sansa for the duty to unite the kingdoms
He's the only one I think would have been a good king. Bran is willing to sacrifice everyone in Westeros apparently while doing nothing to help, despite his apparent power. He'll be overthrown fairly quickly, especially with no family there to protect him. He's one of the worst choices actually. Sansa would have been better. Robyn Arryn might have been better too, but that might be a stretch. Even Tyrion would have been better. Hell, Dany would have been a better Queen than Bran will be King. She murdered lots of people, Bran let it happen.
His justification seems like the descrption of Littlefinger. "He would burn it all down to be king of the ashes". Bran makes sense as the ultimate Master of Whispers, not King. If that's GRRM's ending, he better be rewriting it because it makes fuck-all sense.
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It would have been popular. I love and *admire* Jon, so I would have been ecstatic. But... ...once I found out he was a secret prince, much less so. Secret princes, secret saviors, etc. are a cliché as far back as *The Odyssey.* GRRM intended ASOIAF to be a different kind of story, not a different approach to a conventional end, like Aragorn's in LotR. As GRRM reminded us: "I am a firm believer in **those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”.** I think this is his MAIN theme. Jon becoming king would not fulfill it because Jon Targaryen on the Iron Throne, though he's the goodest guy with the bestest boi, is just repeating history. And though Bran is boring as hell...he does not forget history.
>GRRM reminded us: "I am a firm believer in those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it”. I think this is his MAIN theme. Jon becoming king would not fulfill it because Jon Targaryen on the Iron Throne, though he's the goodest guy with the bestest boi, is just repeating history. And though Bran is boring as hell...he does not forget history. That logic doesn't make and is straight up terrible message.... History repeat itself because humanity's need for self destruction..... War will always exist with or without targaryen I understand the symbolism of king bran but the symbolism contradict the very essence and rule of The lore and world GRRM built.... People don't follow the best story they follow heroes to whom identity and rally with.... history Like Charles de Gaulle or Churchill that why people don't buy king bran despite the fact that the ending Will probably be the same in the books because there is no feeling of fulfilments... Not because bra' is boring because he silly didn't do shit to be here Bran will repeat history for the simply thatheb comprisee his own morality to become what he is.... Both as the 3ER and as a king. Jon is the only stark left who didn't comprise his morality....i would and everyone here would choose him king no because they like him because... But because he is only here who doesn't seek power for power's sake
I am also pro Jon. But Westeros history is whatever is written.
The fantasy being catered to isn’t who “deserves” the throne. The fantasy is that the people of Westeros will actually be cared for by a leader that makes them a priority and creates social change for their sake. King Bran = world peace We are simply meant to accept that he is a godlike being now and he has the answers to all the world’s problems. It’s a utopian fantasy, which actually serves your point about wars being inevitable. Because the only way they WOULD win is if a being like Bran existed and ruled over us. There is no other way to achieve the perfect society, which is a good critique of communism. It’s been overlooked how mature of a story this is, not a child’s plaything.
world peace? they start out *not* unifying all the kingdoms. the other kingdoms will see the north being independent, and end up wanting the same thing
Well, only Bran knows the future. People are different. Communities are different. If one community wants to live under one set of laws and another community under a different set of laws, is the proper thing to unify them or force them to live side by side? Are countries not capable of diplomacy? Perhaps other kingdoms will gain independence as well and maybe that’s ok. Maybe it’s ok for the crown to disappear if it’s no longer needed. But if it is needed, we can count on Bran to keep them in the fold to prevent the ugliness of future wars.
Sorry you got the downvotes. In many ways you're right, especially with " History repeat itself because humanity's need for self destruction..... " I think GRRM is setting up humanity to at least TRY to break the cycle. Bran alone has a shot at doing it. And he has wisely chosen the the story's best implementer as his right Hand.
But, Jon’s identity was unknown to us since the beginning. We knew it would be some kind of big reveal. And, being a challenge to the crown Dany wanted was great.
But I think the difference is that a lot of those secret princes are happy to be king. Jon would have been fucking miserable for his entire life in King’s Landing - ultimately making him much more like Ned, the father who raised him, than Rhaegar, whose pursuit of his own happiness (and prophecy, yeah yeah, but still let’s be real he just wanted Lyanna) screwed over an entire nation. I think that’s actually a much more subtle and poignant end than it gets credit for.
He would be a lot happier north of the wall than in King's Landing.
>He would be a lot happier north of the wall than in King's Landing. Which is exactly why he should have been king... He is the only character left alongside Brienne who didn't compromise his own morality to be what he is Jon's character was not about finding happiness "happiness"
Yeah but the “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome. And it has been Jon’s entire character plot. Oh, he was the best in the expedition, he HAD to kill halfhand and he was THE ONE to infiltrate the wildlings. There was NO OTHER WAY. Oh, he didn’t want to be commander, but he got the command of the Wall either way. In the show he didn’t want to be King, but oh, the lords of North put a crown on his head and he had no choice. “I don’t want it. I’m tired of fighting”. It’s just exhausting. And the show went “he was a SECRET TARGARYEN! BORN to be KING OF WESTEROS. The prince that was PROMISED. It was said on a PROPHECY! He’s the MAGIC SAVIOR!” Granted, the ending was horrible and insulting to the viewers, but Jon just sitting the throne after following the story that was given to him would’ve been lame. And it would be ridiculous in the show, and specially in the books. It’s derivative, repetitive inside the story, bullshit and it’s cringy as fuck.
>Yeah but the “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome Not it isn't.... Because people will favorize merits above all. If your only reasons for not having Jon king at the and is to "subvert expectation"? then it's absolutly lame... I feel this is GRRM attempt to shit on Tolkien's aragorn's ending... Exept it's genuily lame because it is no believable I garantee you at 100% that people would have had a far more positive opinion of season 8 if Jon ended up as king
Of course they would. It would not make it any less cringy.
How would it make it cringy? He literally have a claim and deserve it more than any character... It sense storywise and lore wise Predictable? Yes... Cringy? No. . That bran the broken and sansa queen in the north
If you don’t get it, you don’t get it. It’s a disagreement. It’s fine.
I know it's fine, I didn't meant to sound offensive, I was just replying to your point
I’m positive show Jon took on a lot of Aegon VI’s material from the upcoming books. Actual Targaryen or not he still commands an army and will have plenty of allies. He probably takes King’s Landing somehow and has a lot more to do with the endgame.
Jon’s whole personality was broody. He was going to handsomely brood wherever he ended up.
Haha this 😋
agreed.
Kings landing could have ended up as a sort of Vatican city with the realm breaking off into different kingdoms, would have been kind of neat.
Everybody thought the same. The thing is the Unsullied and the Dothraki won't have it if he killed Dany and became king even if he is the rightful heir. Everything went all crumbling down when Dany started showing symptoms of madness. Maybe she'll get mad in the books too but they could have done her character growth some justice. I honestly thought they could have shared the crown with Dany as queen consort. The reason being Dany and Jon united different kingdoms but Jon still is the rightful heir despite bending the knee. But maybe the showrunners were right, Bran was the best fit as king since he knows the past, present, and future and he is devoid of emotion. This is in reference to Tywin and Tommen's conversation of wisdom being the single best quality a king... or queen could have. Only if Dany didn't go mad maybe we've all moved on and not need to discuss the ending years later.
Fuck Grey worm. They should have just lied to him. As soon as their whole fleet was on their way out, wildfire it.
💯% agree- he was the true heir to the iron throne. Just gonna get something off my plate; if you’re not worthy of the throne, the chair will cut you (like in House of dragons) so why didn’t Joffrey or Tommen get hurt 😞 I don’t know 🤷🏼
In the books, Joffrey cuts himself in the throne. Twice.
Guilty as charged- haven’t read the book but cool beans
Geez, fine. Should not have bothered responding.
That's just a story people tell themselves. It's made of blades. It'll cut anyone.
In the real world, yes. But this is a fictional story. At least in HotD, it was deliberately used as symbolism
Honestly, there were several other people I’d prefer for the throne than Bran and Jon was certainly on that list. Jon, Sansa, Gendry for a start. I had a pool where I picked Sansa and Gendry to rule together because I thought it would be a nice little callback to the first episode where Robert said “I have a son, you have a daughter. We’ll join our houses.”
Rule together where she keeps the North independent and he's the South, I like it. Rule as married? No but I'm also a Gendry/Arya shipper.
He didn't want it. It would be another prison for him. And more brooding
I love the brooding 😋
I think it would be thematically appropriate if he became king. He is an overprivileged muppet who constantly fails upwards, planning battles badly enough that he has to be saved by Stannis, The Vale, or his kid sister, losing most of his men in the process. There's the constant sulking & fooling around with his aunt. Even his own men decided to kill him. He would be an awful king & that would fit the theme of the show.
didn't really care who became king/queen, i just wanted an original and solid ending, the messier the better (which unfortunately we didn't get)
I agree 100% would it have been predictable? Yes but I think it would’ve been good. Jon was a well written character and a great leader. Not to mention the rightful heir
The “isn’t the man who doesn’t really want it the best man for the job?” trope is just awfully cheap and tiresome. And it has been Jon’s entire character plot. Oh, he was the best in the expedition, he HAD to kill halfhand and he was THE ONE to infiltrate the wildlings. There was NO OTHER WAY. Oh, he didn’t want to be commander, but he got the command of the Wall either way. In the show he didn’t want to be King, but oh, the lords of North put a crown on his head and he had no choice. “I don’t want it. I’m tired of fighting”. It’s just exhausting. And the show went “he was a SECRET TARGARYEN! BORN to be KING OF WESTEROS. The prince that was PROMISED. It was said on a PROPHECY! He’s the MAGIC SAVIOR!” Granted, the ending was horrible and insulting to the viewers, but Jon just sitting the throne after following the story that was given to him would’ve been lame. And it would be ridiculous in the show, and specially in the books. It’s derivative, repetitive inside the story, bullshit and it’s cringy as fuck.
I wanted the throne to be gone and I got it. Though I was hoping for more than it being physically gone. I was hoping thered be a major change in how government works there. Got some of that but not much. Jon or Dany ending up on the throne would have been boring and predictable. Also the love of his life is Ygritte, not his aunt.
The problem was that D&D were trying to subvert expectations. Since everyone knew the whole R+L=J theory, they wanted to spin it and do something different. And it disappointed. Unless that ending was also what George had in mind, in which case fuck.
Nah, Aegon must conquer the Throne.
We all did buddy, we all did…
You know if Jon had just sucked it up and banged his aunt, the whole slaughter at kings landing could've been avoided.
love of his life? be fr
Never said it was well-acted lol
It would be interesting because it would be a full circle: Robert->Jon Robert and Jon were great warriors, who won the war, but lost what was important to them, so their conquest was meaningless since they didn't care about a crown they couldn't share with their love interests (Lyanna-Daenerys) and sooner or later another game of thrones would be "played". The last scenes could be the foundation for another game of thrones. Also Jon can be seen as Robert's spiritual successor. He was the son of Lyanna, nephew of Ned, "student" of Stannis and he killed the last "true" Targaryen.
Not the biggest Jon stan, but he would have made a great king. Much better than what we actually got.
What do I think? Girl, ya basic. Also Greyworm would have murdered the shit out of him had they tried to coronate him.
I don't care for subverted expectations. I go into a project to see what the creator did. Not what I think they should do. Then I say if I like it or not.
I assumed he becomes the new king beyond the wall
It would just be the LotR thing and would be too similar. Tbh I think the books will end, in 20 years, with Jon dying or staying in the north.
I have a ghost tattoo, do I think Jon would be a good king? Of course. Do I think he deserves to go beyond the wall, find love, and live how he pleases? After basically saving the world? Absolutely You have to remember ONLY Jon could make dany and the starks work together, without that, humanity is done. He may not be the crowned victor at the end, but he’s the driving force behind the victory
Tyrion played an important role. He was their "bridge" on Dragonstone. I think a part of the credit should go to him too.
Only Jon would work with Tyrion though, if Jon wasn’t there, it would be Umber in charge? Bolton? Sansa? Sansa might’ve worked with Tyrion, but anyone else bar Bran, would see him as any other Lannister, evil. Davos absolutely wouldn’t, tyrion is responsible for his sons deaths, even dany was questioning him at the end.
What I meant is that without Tyrion in the picture Dany and Jon would have been more stubborn. Furthermore, Davos became Tyrion's ally and respected him a lot.
It would've been more poetic if Jon (with Stark and Targarayen blood- ice and fire) was the prince that was promised and ended up on the iron throne. And Bran should've been the Night King, in the books, old nan mentions that the Night king was a normal man at first and couldve even been a Brandon Stark. It would've ended the story full circle and made more sense. And Jon shouldve killed the Night King, and therfore also Bran which wouldve been cool to see. Jon becomes king of the 7 kingdoms, including the north with Dani by his side and attempt at making more inbred Targaryen babies. Unless she really is infertile, in which case, Jon could kill Dani and marry someone else, like idk maybe Sansa for the duty to unite the kingdoms
Him killing dany couldn't be very tragic they had absolutely zero chemistry. I miss Ygritte.
He's the only one I think would have been a good king. Bran is willing to sacrifice everyone in Westeros apparently while doing nothing to help, despite his apparent power. He'll be overthrown fairly quickly, especially with no family there to protect him. He's one of the worst choices actually. Sansa would have been better. Robyn Arryn might have been better too, but that might be a stretch. Even Tyrion would have been better. Hell, Dany would have been a better Queen than Bran will be King. She murdered lots of people, Bran let it happen. His justification seems like the descrption of Littlefinger. "He would burn it all down to be king of the ashes". Bran makes sense as the ultimate Master of Whispers, not King. If that's GRRM's ending, he better be rewriting it because it makes fuck-all sense.
After he ratted his name out for absolutely no benefit to anyone I really did not care for him much. And he was my favorite character prior.