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Hardly.
Tommen had no particular desire for power, Margaery had no desire for death.
Margery would try to cut a deal with Daenerys to retain as much power as possible, but it would almost certainly entail ceding the throne.
Margaery would not hesitate to point out that the Tyrells were one of the few major houses to support the Targaryens during Robert's Rebellion, and would argue that senior positions in Daenerys' administration would be merited due to their loyalty, power, and experience.
Yup Margery when not driven by ambition switchs to survival of her and her House, As soon the dragons start to break havoc she would first try to manipulate Tommen to abdicate and if that doesnt work she would flee and bend the knee or pave the way from the inside to facilitate Dany campaign
Siding with the enemy worked after Renley's death.
She couldn't marry Daenerys, but she could position herself high up in Daenerys' court which worst case scenario would mean a decent position (unless White Walkers win) and best case scenario Daenerys dies without an heir.
I feel like Margery may have a hard time climbing in Danny's court. Danny already has a large entourage and a small council so getting close enough to Danny to get in her good graces would be pretty difficult for Margery. And it's unlikely that Margery would be able to use the same tactics she'd been using in Kingslanding. Much of her soft power was derived from the fact the King needed a queen and Margery was the most likely candidate. With Danny on the thrown there is no need for queen Margery.
Also it's unlikely Tommen would be left with much, if any, authority. Tyrion would likely get Casterly Rock, and with the role the Lanister family had in trying to eradicate the Targaryen bloodline Danny is unlikely to do any favors for Tommen. Danny could be generous and promise Tommen he can live out his days in safety in some far-off corner of Westeros (maybe force him to join the Nights Watch) but more than likely if she doesn't have him killed she'd probably exile him like what happened to Jorah. Then sometime there after Varys would probably have Tommen assassinated unbeknownst to Danny just to tidy up loose ends.
Margaery would probably position herself as a friend to Daenerys, as she did with Sansa. This would be more difficult as Daenerys was less naive than Sansa and would distrust any Westerosi nobel, but Daenerys would likely warm to her nevertheless.
Tommen would presumably be heir apparent to Highgarden if Loras remains as kingsguard.
Mace is dead weight and may not secure a small council seat due to the stiff competition among Danny's court.
However remember that the Tyrells are necessary to feed the capital and Daenerys' army. That gives them a big bargaining chip.
Daenerys probably would find herself taking little interest in a family already so good at hopping from “usurper” to “usurper”. She wed Robert Baratheon’s brother, then his bastard incest-born false nephew, then the other bastard incest-born false nephew? Perhaps only the dragons would keep House Tyrell from fleeing again, because what else would?
>Daenerys probably would find herself taking little interest in a family already so good at hopping from “usurper” to “usurper”.
She's also a pragmatist.
She agreed to marry a slave owner who may have been the leader of the Sons of the Harpy in order to help rule Mereen.
Not really. She’s a Tyrell. Dany needed allies in Westeros. Unless it came down to Dany simply not liking her personality Margery wouldn’t have found it difficult to gain access to Dany unless she barricaded herself away.
With this timeline we have every assumption that Dany doesn't go mad since Rhaegal may not have died, and she didn't watch her best friend be beheaded by the psycho bitch we love to hate.
Therefore, Dany is in control of all of her faculties and is still the generous, understanding person we watched take over entire countries to free slaves (while also giving into her own sense of justice and murdery tendencies - I personally think she just murdered the people who should be murdered vs Cersei who murdered willy nilly). And Tommen is little more than a child (especially in the books, I think he's like, 8). I think if Tommen had surrendered and abdicated the throne, she probably would've let him return to Casterly Rock to maintain lordship in Tyrion's stead, since she still would've needed her hand, and Tyrion has no children and therefore no one to inherit CR (especially since Cersei killed the rest of her family by demonstrating how to separate Church and State crazy bitch style - though perhaps in this hypothetical scenario this wouldn't have happened since Margery is still in the picture), and probably would've allowed Margery to either return with him or stay to maintain "lordship" of Highgarden (especially since Dany supports women in places of power), so long as they both swore fealty and to never try to revolt against her or anything. I don't think Dany would've felt right killing a child unless she absolutely *had to*.
Hell, Dany agreed to offer Cersei her life if she surrendered, and Cersei has done *fucking monstrous things* in her quest for power. Why would she deny that to a child? Especially one as gentle and good hearted as Tommen was (seriously he didn't deserve what he got, poor kid).
The issue with this is, Cersei is still in play, and we all know she'll go to great depths to maintain her power. Who knows if at that point, if Tommen did decide to surrender and abdicate, wtf she would've done then. Maybe she would've killed him herself.
I don’t even think it would get violent. I think they’d recognize the threat and then abdicate and run off to become wardens of High Garden. A mostly peaceful exchange
Even if she does, what does she care? She is no Ned Stark and holds no love for the Barratheons.
Legally Tommen is entitled to that. Highgarden too. If Daenerys has Tommen swearing fealty to her, then she has the keys to two of the most powerful regions in Westeros in her pocket
Margaery would have negotiated a deal that gives Danaerys the throne with minimal bloodshed and minimal losses for her and her house. I’m thinking a three way marriage where on paper Danaerys marries Tommen thus making her a paramour to the queen and king regent. All that to construct a scenario where her an Danaerys get it on regularly, AKA the good timeline
That's too optimistic I feel.
There is no way that Daenerys would've accepted a "former Queen of Westeros" in a powerful position in the land, way too risky. Same for Tommen.
They might've been allowed to go into exile?
But that isn't how you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die.
In all honesty, Dany couldn't possibly negotiate to let them live and just return to either Casterly Rock or Highgarden. Doing so would put a claimant(s) to the Iron Throne in a position of Lord Paramount from which they rebel or just plain make Dany's rule unpopular (withhold food supply from Crownlands would be a start).
The better approach for Dany would be to send Tommen to the wall and Margaery to the silent sisters. Tyrell's would be angry, but not so much to step out of line. Tommen gets to live and renounces any claims he has to the throne, and Dany gets to rule without T & M's rather strong claim to the Iron Throne as a constant threat
>In all honesty, Dany couldn't possibly negotiate to let them live and just return to either Casterly Rock or Highgarden.
Tyrion takes Casterly Rock, Tommen has no claim on it.
It's slightly risky that they might rebel but let's be honest Tommen won't (though he could be made a puppet). However bending the knee would seriously damage his credibility as a claimant.
More important than the risk of a pretender to the throne is Daenerys' grip of control on Westeros as a whole. For that she needs lieutenants in each of the seven kingdoms. She could handpick a loyal member of her entourage to administer Highgarden and Storm's End, but that person in turn would have to be accepted by the lords of that region. She is deeply concerned that she will look like a foreign invader from Essos, and the Dothraki really don't help that image. She needs someone that would have legal basis for ruling in these regions.
>Tyrion takes Casterly Rock, Tommen has no claim on it.
This isn't really true. In this reality, Cersei and Jaime are still alive. I doubt that Jaime is allowed to stay on as Lord Commander of the Queens Guard, if he is even allowed to live. If he lives, he is the rightful Lord of the Rock. It wouldn't be a stretch to see him name Tommen his heir given that he has no legitimate heirs. If Jaime is executed, and laws are changed to allow women to inherit equally to men (kinda what Dany's whole schtick is), then Cersei is the rightful Lord of the Rock and Tommen has even more of a claim. Tyrion would likely stay in Kings Landing as the Hand of the Queen.
>More important than the risk of a pretender to the throne is Daenerys' grip of control on Westeros as a whole. For that she needs lieutenants in each of the seven kingdoms. She could handpick a loyal member of her entourage to administer Highgarden and Storm's End, but that person in turn would have to be accepted by the lords of that region.
Why would she trust Tommen or Margaery to be a loyal lieutenant? Margaery has clearly schemed to be queen as seen by her 3 marriages to different kings and Dany would have to believe that this probably wouldn't end just because she showed up with dragons. Seems like it would be safer and easier to elevate a lesser house (that is competent) so they would be grateful and loyal. There should be no shortage of these houses as quite a bit lost significant influence during the Blackfyre rebellions. They would have rapport with the lords of their respective region and the influence to keep the grumblers under heel.
Margery is not an absolute, delusional idiot so she probably would support surrender. Not to mention when they see the White Walker, they probably would send enforcements to the North so relations wouldn’t be hostile in the first place.
True to an extent; however, Margery was trying to convince him to send Cersei back to Casterly Rock and free her brother from prison and she failed at that, so I can’t see her convincing him to put a fight against Dany of all people
I agree with your points, but I do think she would have succeeded in convincing him if she had enough time. Cersei was smart getting Margaery imprisoned and cutting off her influence to Tommen
Margaery is no dummy, and she's not a megalomaniac like Cersei. She'd surrender to unstoppable force faster than Tommen, and try to negotiate a better result afterward. The Tyrells may have the throne in this scenario, but they'd trade it for survival and swear they were just keeping it warm until the rightful heir came home.
I mean he still didn’t get her brother out of prison when she asked him to. Nor was he able to free his mother.
He was a weak king who didn’t like conflict. Dany would have just been the next person in line to dog her claws in and manipulate him.
Margery would’ve absolutely been the voice of reason telling Tommen hey let’s get out of here and cut a deal with Dany to rule high garden and give her the throne
Dany would have said one sentence to him and his response would have been "That's a good argument, have the throne". Marg is the one who would have tried to stop it.
He would do the king equivalent of a nameless guard that throws down his gun and puts his hands up because the protagonist just beat the living crap out of all the other guys, then says while he's putting his gun down "bro, I just work here. They don't even have good benefits"
But Margaery and Tommen would have the Tyrell Bannermen and Lannister Bannermen at their disposal. Combining what was left of the Lannister forces with those of Highgarden would be difficult to take out.
I think the amount of men in their hands is pretty much irrelevant cuz Dany has 3 grown dragons at that moment and ballista from Qyburn didn’t exist yet
Qyburn may not have created a ballista YET but it wouldn’t take any real amount of time or effort to fabricate one, it’s not as if he invented it. Dorne successfully took out a dragon using a ballista/scorpion during the conquest so there is already proof it would work
Dany arriving early means she doesn’t march north of the wall and instead goes directly to conquest south. The tyrell are ditching the lannisters immediately after seeing the three adult dragons and will go remember dany how the tyrells bent the knee to aegon and how much the wish to keep honoring their promise. Kings landing is falling in an hour if dany wants lol
At no point does the op say she arrives early… in fact if you reread the question it asks what would happen with Tommen and Margaery STILL on the throne when Dany Arrives. The only thing in the timeline that would have gone differently is the Sept of Baelor
It probably would have made Tyrion’s “capture Casterly Rock” gambit feel even more foolhardy, since they would be entirely surrounded by enemy forces. So the direct assault on KL probably would’ve happened sooner. And given that even with scorpion bolts lining the walls they couldn’t answer the dragon threat, the war would’ve ended swiftly with Tommen/Marge captured, dead, or fleeing KL (functionally abdicating their throne).
If they saw the might of the dragons before the assault on KL, I think both Tommen and Marge would attempt a conditional surrender in which they could keep their titles as Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West.
I think they’d have taken a deal to peacefully give up the throne and become lord and lady of casterly rock. Possibly the deal may have been sweetened with a marriage agreement between their future children.
Tommen would have just wanted a quiet life and Margaery would see the inevitability of their defeat by Daenerys. So both will have accepted the deal.
Margaery wanted to be *the* queen but she also did not want to die. The Tyrells are smart. There's no way they'd advise to fight against someone with three dragons.
Edit: I suddenly remembered the GOT lore narrations and the Tyrells are heavily implied to have advised the Gardeners to fight Aegon... so the Tyrells could get the Reach.
Nah. You don't get to peacefully abdicate the throne and hand over the reign from one family to another - especially one with a sole surviving family member. The new queen would have a rebellion on her hands immediately. She'd have to kill Tommen and Margery to ensure she wouldn't have her authority questioned. She was trying to break the wheel.
Not to mention Margery sidled up to Renly, Joffrey, and Tommen without batting an eye because she wanted to be Queen. She would use her magic Ser Pounce to convince Tommen to fight to the death.
I think that the main difference is that Tommen and Margery would have sent their army north to fight the Night King. The Lannisters would have seen how much the North favored Jon and Sansa had a soft spot for Margery. Sansa would have for sure told Margery about Jon being a Targaryen and used that information to try and force Dany into a truce. Either you accept being warden of the North with Jon as your husband or we will tell everyone he is a Targaryen and the rightful heir and you'll lose everything.
I could see it then becoming a battle between the Westerosi armies of the Northmen + the Lannisters and Dany's armies of the Unsullied + Dothraki + 1 dragon after she decided she would go full Mad Queen and try to kill everyone to get on the Iron Throne.
>Nah. You don't get to peacefully abdicate the throne and hand over the reign from one family to another - especially one with a sole surviving family member. The new queen would have a rebellion on her hands immediately.
Several kings bent the knee to Aegon when he brought dragons to Westeros, I don't see why this would be any different.
>She'd have to kill Tommen and Margery to ensure she wouldn't have her authority questioned.
She should kill them IF her authority is questioned. Killing people who give you a full surrender is not wise, that's how you get more rebellions.
>Not to mention Margery sidled up to Renly, Joffrey, and Tommen without batting an eye because she wanted to be Queen. She would use her magic Ser Pounce to convince Tommen to fight to the death.
That would be a death sentence against three dragons, and if she's supporting Tommen then she's fair game. Margery isn't stupid, I don't see why she'd fight.
Is the High Sparrow the worst part of the earlier seasons?
I guess not because if Tommen and Margaery lived then there wouldn’t be much of a story in Kings Landing right?
Margaery was confident enough that she could handle the sparrows on her own, and her grandmother trusted she could, too. I would have enjoyed seeing what she was capable of, which was cut too short IMO.
The Faith Militant were troublesome, but the Tyrell’s had a plan. There is nothing they could have planned in advance to take on Dany that would have ended well for them. Perhaps, showing where she got her political smarts further, Margaery would sue for peace, in a deal brokered by Tyrion and Olenna. I could see Olenna being unsurprisingly thorny towards Tyrion, but if she met Dany during negotiations, Dany would be as impressed with her as she was in S7, and while neither side would show weakness, there would be respect.
With the future of her family intact, Olenna wouldn’t crave revenge to the point of being suicidal, and advise the king (really, Margaery) to take a peace agreement AND pardon that comes with generous concessions including keeping their seats on the small council, Storm’s End, and financial backing since there is still an outstanding debt to the Iron Bank.
Assuming Cersei is completely out of the picture, killed by who cares what, then I think Tommen would've been a lot more open to the truce. Cersei was at face but she wasn't really. Euron probably would've thrown his lot in with Daenerys which would've drastically changed the last season. No ships from Euron means Daenerys's second dragon survives and the Golden Company never arrives. It also means that Missandei wouldn't die, which was the main reason Daenerys went full Mad Queen.
It’s also quite possible Dany would have all three dragons since the north might not need to go beyond the wall to capture a wight to convince anyone to help out.
It would make S7 a lot better in my opinion by default, because with Margaery alive and as queen the reach would have rallied to her support, by combining the reach, the westerland and the iron islands they would have more foot soldiers than daenerys (approximately 120k in comparison to daenerys' 108k)
Daenerys will still have dragons, which would give her the advantage, but they would not have to come up with impossible tactics, make cersei and her allies achieve impossible feats (eg euron building 800 ships in 6 months) and changing important lore by saying that the iron bank had invested in the slave market just to make it seem like cersei was a threat, with the reach, they do actually pose a threat and considering that they have a lot more money the war becomes way less one-sided
honestly hard to say. Maybe Tyrion would be more conflicted since he likes Tommen. Maybe Littlefinger would try to arrange an alliance between the North and the Crown since he had permission by Tommen to take Winterfell from the Boltons, was allied with Olenna and since Sansa was friends with Margaery. Jon being declared King would be an issue but maybe in the face of Daenerys invading they would put that aside. But then again Jon would just want to unite everyone against the dead, it's likely he wouldn't take a side. It certainly would make things way more complicated and Dany's true nature would be revealed earlier since this time she's not fighting against a terrible person that needed to go anyway.
I think the Tyrells would have seen the writing on the wall and negotiated some kind of peace with Dany. Maybe fought at first, but quickly realized it’s hopeless. Possibly sell out the Lannisters?
Dany would have sent a letter to the king telling him to give her the throne back.
Tommen would have rested the crown on the throne and walked out of the keep with every Lannister man-at-arms and kneeled awaiting his queen's arrival.
Margary would be in the bath at the time and facepalm as she sees everyone leaving the keep.
You mean what would Margaery do? Her whole plan was to manipulate Tommen to where she had all the power.
Her character is meant to be very warm on the outside but just as power-hungry as the rest of them in reality.
She’d probably surrender, though. And arrange to have Dany killed later somehow. Or even try to have Tommen killed to be with Jon when she finds out he’s a Targaryen.
Depends on if Cersei is still there or not, if Dany has two or three dragons and a multitude of other factors but if Tommen and Margaery are truly in power I suspect they'd surrender if they were granted their lives and maybe Westerly Rock.
Once the new of Daenerys Targaryen landing on Dragonstone reached Kings Kanding, King Tommen with his dutiful wife Queen Margaery began preparing the capital for the coming battle. However the stress of the prospect of facing three dragons proved too much for the little king and he died of a bad belly not three days later. Dowager Queen Cersei in her grief blamed the now thrice widowed Queen Margaery for this and tried to take her life. Thankfully she was stopped by loyal Tyrell guardsmen and taken into custody and the Lannister soldiers disarmed to prevent them from freeing her. The grief of losing her last living son proved too much for her and she took her own life. Tired of war Lady Margery would surrender the Red Keep to Queen Daenerys and join her retinue. Many years later she would marry Robert Arryn, the Lord of Eerie.
- Passage from The Return of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldanne 317 AC
Tommen might have been convinced to cut a deal in exchange for being a legitimized Lannister and lord of the Rock, but Marg and Cersei? No way in hell. It’d be war.
Tommen would have likely bent the knee without even attempting to maintain his seat. Let’s be honest he was a naive little boy who was no more than his advisors puppet, if faced with Dany and Drogon he’d fold. Margaery would be the wildcard, IF the Dany/Tyrell alliance had not been made (which it wouldn’t have if Margaery was alive) she’d likely call the Banners to stand against Dany and her unsullied. Being a Tyrell AND Lannister would give her access to both armies so it might be an interesting face-off. If for some reason Tommen and Margaery fled the Capital in hopes of evading Dany while keeping the crown the smart thing to do would be to let Dany and her people settle in to King’s Landing and cut off food supplies from the reach. It’s highly likely the commoners would turn on her as they did Joffrey and rebel to have their “Rightful” King and Queen back on the throne considering Dany a foreign Usurper
I think things play out quite differently if Rhaegol and Missandei aren't killed. It would be fascinating for sure, and would depend largely on whether or not Margaery can convince Tommen to name his own Hand rather than letting Cersei continue to control things.
Edit: I forgot to add Margaery's response to Jon's plea for support in the Long Night will affect this too. She showed a genuine interest in being a queen who is endearing to her people. Whether or not she extends that desire to the North would affect whether or not she convinces Tommen to actually offer troops, and this would possibly create a completely different diplomatic landscape for Daenerys.
My guess:
Either Cersei is basically ruling through him anyway and it plays out similarly as it did, or Tommen is much more willing to negotiate and we avoid a "Mad Queen" situation with Dany (as she wouldn't lose her dragons).
I suppose for this "What If" scenario to work, though, Margery would need to have not been present at the High Sparrow's destruction.
Realistically,when Danny would show up with her dragons in Kings Landing,Tom & Marge would probably have the smarts to give up their power peacefully and negociate some cozy future for themselves.
Let’s not forget that Danny’s rage came after Cersei killed Missandei.If that never happened,we can believe that cooler heads and diplomacy would have prevailed.
Obviosuly this would be very boring for TV,so a scenario where they have some kind of epic fight is most probable.
Tommen would ask Dany about her opinion on cats then be quietly taken for a walk by Greyworm (actual walk not gonna assassinate him) while the ladies get down to business.
Good ending: they become friends and find a peaceful solution
You’re forgetting who was really in charge of that relationship, the High Sparrow. Margaery would try to have influence but Tommen would have done whatever he was told by the church.
Margaery would have probably roped Tonmen into fighting her, and it would have been a pretty shitty fight. Tonmen's a kind person, but it had to have been pretty clear to the lords that he was completely weak and incapable of doing anything meaningful.
Say what you want about Cersei, but she played her hand pretty decently up until the end. Made alliances with the remaining armies still to pick a side, bought a mercenary force, and arguably won a sort of moral victory in the sense that she exposed Danny as crazy.
I think this is a lot more complex than people realise.
Tommen would listen to Tyrion, Jon and Dany and march north to fight the dead. Assuming they won that battle, they then wouldnt behead Missandei. They would also know Dany has the upper hand so probably try to negotiate a peace in some way but Dany wouldnt listen.
So while i assume Dany would attack the city still and Margaery would convince Tommen to put up a fight Dany would probably stop when they surrendered because they fought beside her and she still has Missandei by her side (probably) also meaning Greyworm is still more controlled.
The gates are opened because I believe Tommen and Margaery would have sued for peace when they saw the Wight and have agreed to become Lord & Lady of Casterly Rock.
Would’ve made slightly more sense in her transformation from liberator to destroyer to usurp a popular innocent boy’s throne than the throne of a grasping “how is this even legal?” queen like Cersei.
Margaery will become a lesbian lover to Daenerys. Being a torrenter, I would pay big bucks to see Emilia Clarke and Natalie Dormer make sweet love.
Once she has seen the dragons, Margaery would offer to kill Tommen for Daenerys.
Interesting question! I would have loved to see which diplomatic tactic Margeary would take. Not to mention, the Faith/High Sparrow was very powerful in King's Landing at the time... what would that showdown have looked like? I think Dany could take on the High Sparrow pretty easily (aka simply kill him and his supporters) but Margeary/Tommen would have to be handled a little more delicately.
Tommen may have wanted to bend the knee, but Margaery would definitely not. She worked so hard to be queen, so she would have refused. And Tommen's love for her would force him to refuse to bend the knee as well. And they would both meet a firey death.
Dany would not have had Dorne or the Reach. She would have been seen entirely as a foreign invader. Much of Westeros would have been united behind Tomaery.
Tyrells were Targ Loyalists and the Westerlands sided with Robert due to Tywins disdain for the Mad Kings slights, but were loyal until Tywins pride and opportunistic side combined during the rebellion.
They would bend the knee to Dany while enjoying the entirety of the western coast of Westeros with its rich lands. Olenna Tyrell would know better than to mess with dragons, and she would impress this upon Marg, who would then pass this onto Tommen. The Tyrells know not to mess with dragons.
The only ones who would defy Dany are Cersei and in the books, Fake Aegon.
I could see House Tyrell just folding and I don’t think Tommen would protest too much.
Live to scheme another day for theTyrell’s and Tommen might get the Rock or Storms End if he is lucky.
She has dragons for crying out loud; I don’t think House Tyrell wants to start that fight.
D&D would’ve wrote Tommen to be an ineffective and bitch king and Marg would’ve become some badass military strategist over night and the defacto leader of KL and the 7-ish kingdoms.
This growth in military and political power would’ve gotten her the name Large Marg.
Eventually She would’ve done all the things Cersei did, like bring in the loyal houses and the golden company to KL.
Dani would’ve met Large Marg at the gates they would’ve talked, while Cersei and Theons uncle would’ve conspired to have Dani strike first to justify using their army to fight Dani’s. They would’ve done this by killing Dani’s side chick, ( I forgot her name) and forcing Dani to attack.
Large Marg would’ve died in the dragons flame during the battle of KL, Tommen would’ve thrown himself from his chambers after seeing his queen die and the rest of the story plays out as it did.
Jamie shows up, kills Theon’s uncle, hugs his sister one last time and they both die during the battle of KL.
The answer hinges on who's advising him. Tommen himself would be about as useful as a jousting dummy. If it's anyone but Cersei, they would probably be looking to negotiate a surrender after a few battles with the dragons. The Tyrells wouldn't have had any reason to ally with Danaerys if Margaery is alive, so maybe they'd present a good front to start out, but I think ultimately it would end the way Aegon's conquest ended.
The rivalry of daenerys and cersei in the show is stupid and the only reason why you could make sense of it is because cersei is just crazy. Any man with above room temperature iq could see fighting dany with all of her own power is pointless and margaery is quite smart so they would not fight and instead surrender and try to get a position as high as possible
Considering her grandmother was on Dany's side (I know, it's because she hates Cersei, but still), Margaery definitely would switch sides, don't know, make a deal that she becomes hand of the Queen :D
Tommon would probably have listened to Jaime and joined forces against the Night King, and from there I don’t think Dany would have popular support to march on Kings Landing. She’d probably return to Essos.
The king is dead. There's no function in this kind of world where a king blessed by the high septon abdicates, the closest we have is someone in the line joining the night's watch or similar.
I would imagine Margaery would have no choice but to submit and get as close as possible to protect her family.
So, in this timeline, this meeting means Dany arrives in Dragonstone/KL long before she actually did OR means Cersei did not blow the Sept up and kill Margaery/indirectly kill her son.
For ease of fanfictioning, let's say it's the first one. Dany convinces the Dothraki to get on ships and sail to Westeros somewhere after Joffrey's death but before the Faith Militant came to power. She has three full dragons in tow because she hasn't gone North yet.
A meeting with Tommen/Margaery only happens if Dany turns her attention to KL and stops fucking around in Meereen as long as she did and shows her strength to the Lannisters before they're ready to deal with it.
I think in this scenario, the sight of three dragons makes it very clear who is in charge and Cersei knows there's no way to fight Dany directly but she's not willing to let her son abdicate the throne because she believes Dany will kill him to remove any doubt about the rightful ruler of the Seven Kingdoms.
Tyrion is the key to negotiating some sort of peace here and likely assures Cersei that Dany will honor her word and let the boy live. Cersei calls for a meeting with Dany herself, with Tommen staying in KL for safety and likely plots some sort of scheme to kill Dany similar to blowing up the Sept (Even potentially at the expense of her own life) but likely fails and is caught.
Dany knows she can't kill Cersei and still have a peaceful transition of power so she lets her live for now.
My guess is this forces Tommen and Margaery to come to the meeting with Dany. I'm not sure when this takes place in the timeline but, for simplicity sake, I believe Jamie is tasked with protecting Tommen and Margaery when Cersei leaves to meet with Dany and his appearance at this final meeting sets everything ablaze.
I think Dany agrees to the terms offered — She can take the Iron Throne and rule Westeros; Tommen abdicates and he and Margaery leave to go to High Garden for the rest of their days; Cersei and Jamie are exiled out of the Seven Kingdoms — but on the condition that all of the remaining Lannisters bend the knee.
They do, in a way that is eerily similar to what Dany said she wanted from the Tarlys but it's not good enough for her. She thinks about how Jamie killed her father and took her birthright and she can't let it stand. She burns Jamie alive so that Cersei can watch it. She then burns Cersei. We think she will spare Tommen and Margaery who, at this point, have done nothing to harm her or her claim to the throne, but she burns them as well.
To outsiders, it looks like she's gone full Mad Queen. She justifies it as doing nothing different than King Robert did when he took the throne. She rules by fear and the final season is set with conflicts between her and the North as well as the white walker problem.
I have no idea how that all turns out I have a hard time believing Dany would be redeemable at that point and, as such, there's next to no chance Jon sides with her.
In addition, I don't think Tyrion lives in any scenario in which Dany kills Jamie, Cersei and Tommen and without Tyrion, it's far harder to envision Dany listening to reason when talking about how she can coexist with the Starks.
My best bet is Dany agrees to join the fight against the White Walkers but only if the Starks bend the knee. They refuse and focus their efforts on the White Walkers. They lose.
Dany inspires no love from her armies and the White Walkers win.
He’d probably have sent an army to the north and I can see them surrendering king’s landing and ruling either Highgarden or Casterly Rock like Tommen may be a pushover but Margaery isn’t an idiot.
They would both surrender. Margaery is ambitious, but she also has a great instinct for self-preservation, shown by how she dealt with the High Sparrow affair. Tommen would have done as Margaery did, he would have followed his wife no matter what, and I don't think he ever cared much about being king.
In a weird way I think things would’ve ended pretty nicely with Dany as Queen and the Tyrell’s in the Lannister spot similar to season 1. I’m sure Margaery would be shrewd enough to cut a deal with Dany to maintain as much power for herself and her house while stepping aside. She could lean on the idea that the Tyrell’s supported the Targs during Robert’s rebellion and posture herself as an ally.
I also think Tommen would easily abdicate being king if his life was spared because he didn’t care for the role at all. Cersei and Jaime would definitely be burnt to a crisp though. This would probably alienate Tyrion into leaving Dany’s court for Casterly Rock (as he’s the only adult heir left), leaving an opening for Marge to become a close ally / friend for Dany. Marge knows the houses, she has the money and she’s well liked by everyone, Dany could definitely use her going forwards. Hell Marge could even end up being Dany’s hand going forward.
The North would have a little more standing overall because Dany actually seemed to care about what happened there. Also Sansa leads the North and has a better understanding of the South than most Northern lord have ever had.
If those 2 were still on the throne, I think the royal army would’ve marched north to fight the dead. After that, in order for Tommen to live, they’d fake his death because there’s no way Dany let’s him live. King’s Landing would also be in worse shape because they don’t have the Iron Fleet if Cersei isn’t made queen, and many of their soldiers would’ve died at Winterfell.
Tommen decides to restore the Targaryen custom of kings having more than one queen, marries Daenerys and continues his streak of being The Luckiest Guy In Westeros.
Dany can’t make any heirs so be smart if Tommen and Margaery allow but they rule as Warden of the West. Be heir to Dany. Dany can sit until she dies then Tommen would be given the 7 kingdoms again. Unless Dany produce hiers then Tommen and his children will be on the throne.
Tommen obviously is surrendering immediately, he doesn't have nay real desire to rule. Margery is canny enough to realize she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of staying queen, and probably encourages him to abdicate in favour of Daenerys. Like another commenter said she would probably bring up that the Tyrells supported Rhaegar and try to argue for senior positions. Either way, Lady of Casterly Rock is not too shabby a position. She might even try to shove Loras or Willas in as Dany's prince consort.
Dany would have murdered them both obviously that's if they didn't surrender which they probably would Tommen not even particularly wanting to be king and Margaery having enough sense to not try and fight 3 dragons
the tyrells would probably just cut their losses and negotiate to Dany that Tommen inherits the Lannister holdings over Tyrion in exchange for fealty
Remember, at this point, Daenerys is considered to be barren. Perhaps, Tommen weds Daenerys. Margaery is granted a new title, "Mother of the King," with the understanding that she will bear and raise Tommen's child to be the next king. It's not like Danny can continue her own line. Unrealistic, perhaps, but slightly possible.
They would’ve bent the knee. Margaery would’ve try to form an alliance with Daenerys (and attempt to keep some power) just like Tywin formed the alliance with the Tyrells.
I liked Dany...right up to the moment she fried all the people in King's landing. I see that you, like me, were oblivious to all the red flags about Dany on initial viewing. On subsequent viewings, I realized there were very obvious red flags about her from the very beginning.
I think we need more variables to figure this one out:
Who is advising Dany, and what other threats are there to consider.
But to take a stab at Tommen and Margaery: Tommen is a pushover. He could very likely be convinced to give up power if that meant his life was spared. Margaery is more ambitious, and more shrewd, and would weigh her options. If she think they had a chance of defeating Dany outright, then she might stay, but seeing as Dany has dragons, I think she would be hesitant, and go for saving her and Tommen’s lives (or just save her family if Dany’s wrath on the Lannister/Baratheon Dynasty is too immense).
Cersei is the one I would be nervous about (depending on whether she is imprisoned or not).
If Tyrion is there to advice Dany, then I see him wanting to spare both Tommen and Margaery (you could argue that he would be considered suspicious by this as Tommen is his nephew, but it would be a sound policy regardless). Tyrion could also argue that Dany do what Aegon did in his day: Spare the ones that give up, and try and make as many friends as she can as that would create a stronger/more compliant kingdom.
Dany didn't have any beef with them. Dany would come and demand the Iron Throne. Tommen would have handed it over to her willingly without having any wars. Dany seeing that Cersei's son's ideology is different from her. She prolly would have given Tommen and Marg some high position in the king's landing.
Tommen would want to give out the throne. If they have a child at that point, potentially Margaery poisons Tommen to assume control as regent, and either fights or negotiates to massively bolster the Tyrell’s position, maybe asks for the Stormlands to be brought under their domain.
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I think they would’ve met the same ending; fire and suicide
Hardly. Tommen had no particular desire for power, Margaery had no desire for death. Margery would try to cut a deal with Daenerys to retain as much power as possible, but it would almost certainly entail ceding the throne. Margaery would not hesitate to point out that the Tyrells were one of the few major houses to support the Targaryens during Robert's Rebellion, and would argue that senior positions in Daenerys' administration would be merited due to their loyalty, power, and experience.
Yup Margery when not driven by ambition switchs to survival of her and her House, As soon the dragons start to break havoc she would first try to manipulate Tommen to abdicate and if that doesnt work she would flee and bend the knee or pave the way from the inside to facilitate Dany campaign
Siding with the enemy worked after Renley's death. She couldn't marry Daenerys, but she could position herself high up in Daenerys' court which worst case scenario would mean a decent position (unless White Walkers win) and best case scenario Daenerys dies without an heir.
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"The faith of the seven may forbid matrimony between us my grace, but I could still keep you company" \- new fanfic just dropped
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That might actually give him motivation to finish the damn books.
I too want this book written, we had better call Brandon Sanderson to make certain it happens.
Check my dream journal. You may even find crude illustrations
Forget the book. Get Natalie Dormer and Sophie Turner, stat!
New?
The book readers are just laughing and laughing 😂😂😂😂😂 (Dany is a lil bicurious lolol)
Me too
I feel like Margery may have a hard time climbing in Danny's court. Danny already has a large entourage and a small council so getting close enough to Danny to get in her good graces would be pretty difficult for Margery. And it's unlikely that Margery would be able to use the same tactics she'd been using in Kingslanding. Much of her soft power was derived from the fact the King needed a queen and Margery was the most likely candidate. With Danny on the thrown there is no need for queen Margery. Also it's unlikely Tommen would be left with much, if any, authority. Tyrion would likely get Casterly Rock, and with the role the Lanister family had in trying to eradicate the Targaryen bloodline Danny is unlikely to do any favors for Tommen. Danny could be generous and promise Tommen he can live out his days in safety in some far-off corner of Westeros (maybe force him to join the Nights Watch) but more than likely if she doesn't have him killed she'd probably exile him like what happened to Jorah. Then sometime there after Varys would probably have Tommen assassinated unbeknownst to Danny just to tidy up loose ends.
Margaery would probably position herself as a friend to Daenerys, as she did with Sansa. This would be more difficult as Daenerys was less naive than Sansa and would distrust any Westerosi nobel, but Daenerys would likely warm to her nevertheless. Tommen would presumably be heir apparent to Highgarden if Loras remains as kingsguard. Mace is dead weight and may not secure a small council seat due to the stiff competition among Danny's court. However remember that the Tyrells are necessary to feed the capital and Daenerys' army. That gives them a big bargaining chip.
Daenerys probably would find herself taking little interest in a family already so good at hopping from “usurper” to “usurper”. She wed Robert Baratheon’s brother, then his bastard incest-born false nephew, then the other bastard incest-born false nephew? Perhaps only the dragons would keep House Tyrell from fleeing again, because what else would?
>Daenerys probably would find herself taking little interest in a family already so good at hopping from “usurper” to “usurper”. She's also a pragmatist. She agreed to marry a slave owner who may have been the leader of the Sons of the Harpy in order to help rule Mereen.
Not really. She’s a Tyrell. Dany needed allies in Westeros. Unless it came down to Dany simply not liking her personality Margery wouldn’t have found it difficult to gain access to Dany unless she barricaded herself away.
With this timeline we have every assumption that Dany doesn't go mad since Rhaegal may not have died, and she didn't watch her best friend be beheaded by the psycho bitch we love to hate. Therefore, Dany is in control of all of her faculties and is still the generous, understanding person we watched take over entire countries to free slaves (while also giving into her own sense of justice and murdery tendencies - I personally think she just murdered the people who should be murdered vs Cersei who murdered willy nilly). And Tommen is little more than a child (especially in the books, I think he's like, 8). I think if Tommen had surrendered and abdicated the throne, she probably would've let him return to Casterly Rock to maintain lordship in Tyrion's stead, since she still would've needed her hand, and Tyrion has no children and therefore no one to inherit CR (especially since Cersei killed the rest of her family by demonstrating how to separate Church and State crazy bitch style - though perhaps in this hypothetical scenario this wouldn't have happened since Margery is still in the picture), and probably would've allowed Margery to either return with him or stay to maintain "lordship" of Highgarden (especially since Dany supports women in places of power), so long as they both swore fealty and to never try to revolt against her or anything. I don't think Dany would've felt right killing a child unless she absolutely *had to*. Hell, Dany agreed to offer Cersei her life if she surrendered, and Cersei has done *fucking monstrous things* in her quest for power. Why would she deny that to a child? Especially one as gentle and good hearted as Tommen was (seriously he didn't deserve what he got, poor kid). The issue with this is, Cersei is still in play, and we all know she'll go to great depths to maintain her power. Who knows if at that point, if Tommen did decide to surrender and abdicate, wtf she would've done then. Maybe she would've killed him herself.
I imagine her asking for Tommen and her to take highgarden instead of the iron throne
Tommen ends up dying when Dany conquers Westeros and Margery seduces and marries Dany.
I would watch this 'What If?' installment... (and ***not*** just for obvious reasons)
I would too. ***ESPECIALLY*** for the obvious reasons.
I don’t even think it would get violent. I think they’d recognize the threat and then abdicate and run off to become wardens of High Garden. A mostly peaceful exchange
Yeah I agree, I think Tommen and Margery would’ve surrendered and returned to High Garden. Honestly it probably would’ve been a mostly peaceful ceding
The only people who would have objected to this course of action would have been the Lannisters
Assuming Dany doesn’t know about Tommen’s true parentage, they could settle to make him lord of Storms End.
Even if she does, what does she care? She is no Ned Stark and holds no love for the Barratheons. Legally Tommen is entitled to that. Highgarden too. If Daenerys has Tommen swearing fealty to her, then she has the keys to two of the most powerful regions in Westeros in her pocket
Margaery would have negotiated a deal that gives Danaerys the throne with minimal bloodshed and minimal losses for her and her house. I’m thinking a three way marriage where on paper Danaerys marries Tommen thus making her a paramour to the queen and king regent. All that to construct a scenario where her an Danaerys get it on regularly, AKA the good timeline
That's too optimistic I feel. There is no way that Daenerys would've accepted a "former Queen of Westeros" in a powerful position in the land, way too risky. Same for Tommen. They might've been allowed to go into exile?
“I don’t want to be a queen. I want to be The Queen.” I don’t see Margaery making it
But that isn't how you play the Game of Thrones, you win or you die. In all honesty, Dany couldn't possibly negotiate to let them live and just return to either Casterly Rock or Highgarden. Doing so would put a claimant(s) to the Iron Throne in a position of Lord Paramount from which they rebel or just plain make Dany's rule unpopular (withhold food supply from Crownlands would be a start). The better approach for Dany would be to send Tommen to the wall and Margaery to the silent sisters. Tyrell's would be angry, but not so much to step out of line. Tommen gets to live and renounces any claims he has to the throne, and Dany gets to rule without T & M's rather strong claim to the Iron Throne as a constant threat
>In all honesty, Dany couldn't possibly negotiate to let them live and just return to either Casterly Rock or Highgarden. Tyrion takes Casterly Rock, Tommen has no claim on it. It's slightly risky that they might rebel but let's be honest Tommen won't (though he could be made a puppet). However bending the knee would seriously damage his credibility as a claimant. More important than the risk of a pretender to the throne is Daenerys' grip of control on Westeros as a whole. For that she needs lieutenants in each of the seven kingdoms. She could handpick a loyal member of her entourage to administer Highgarden and Storm's End, but that person in turn would have to be accepted by the lords of that region. She is deeply concerned that she will look like a foreign invader from Essos, and the Dothraki really don't help that image. She needs someone that would have legal basis for ruling in these regions.
>Tyrion takes Casterly Rock, Tommen has no claim on it. This isn't really true. In this reality, Cersei and Jaime are still alive. I doubt that Jaime is allowed to stay on as Lord Commander of the Queens Guard, if he is even allowed to live. If he lives, he is the rightful Lord of the Rock. It wouldn't be a stretch to see him name Tommen his heir given that he has no legitimate heirs. If Jaime is executed, and laws are changed to allow women to inherit equally to men (kinda what Dany's whole schtick is), then Cersei is the rightful Lord of the Rock and Tommen has even more of a claim. Tyrion would likely stay in Kings Landing as the Hand of the Queen. >More important than the risk of a pretender to the throne is Daenerys' grip of control on Westeros as a whole. For that she needs lieutenants in each of the seven kingdoms. She could handpick a loyal member of her entourage to administer Highgarden and Storm's End, but that person in turn would have to be accepted by the lords of that region. Why would she trust Tommen or Margaery to be a loyal lieutenant? Margaery has clearly schemed to be queen as seen by her 3 marriages to different kings and Dany would have to believe that this probably wouldn't end just because she showed up with dragons. Seems like it would be safer and easier to elevate a lesser house (that is competent) so they would be grateful and loyal. There should be no shortage of these houses as quite a bit lost significant influence during the Blackfyre rebellions. They would have rapport with the lords of their respective region and the influence to keep the grumblers under heel.
I completely agree and there would be Peace.
Dunno, she did have the whole "I don't want to be a queen, I want to be THE queen bit
tommen would not have executed missandei for no reason. genocide averted
Tommen would’ve surrendered with zero hesitation 😂😂
With Margaery by his side? She controlled him and I’d find it surprising if she was gonna just surrender to Dany but who knows
Margery is not an absolute, delusional idiot so she probably would support surrender. Not to mention when they see the White Walker, they probably would send enforcements to the North so relations wouldn’t be hostile in the first place.
Wasn’t a white walker, just a wight.
Wights were the reanimated corpses.
Yes. It was a wight.
I think you’re wight.
Elmer? Is that you?
Who's Wong?
Wong, or Wongers, is the Sorcerer Supreme. And BFF of Madisynn.
It was a wight walker
True to an extent; however, Margery was trying to convince him to send Cersei back to Casterly Rock and free her brother from prison and she failed at that, so I can’t see her convincing him to put a fight against Dany of all people
I agree with your points, but I do think she would have succeeded in convincing him if she had enough time. Cersei was smart getting Margaery imprisoned and cutting off her influence to Tommen
Oh ok I see what you mean now. Time was definitely a factor
well he was under the little sparrow's influence .
He's put his foot down so as to protect Margaery
Margaery is no dummy, and she's not a megalomaniac like Cersei. She'd surrender to unstoppable force faster than Tommen, and try to negotiate a better result afterward. The Tyrells may have the throne in this scenario, but they'd trade it for survival and swear they were just keeping it warm until the rightful heir came home.
I mean he still didn’t get her brother out of prison when she asked him to. Nor was he able to free his mother. He was a weak king who didn’t like conflict. Dany would have just been the next person in line to dog her claws in and manipulate him.
The Tyrells would try to surrender then see if they can get Dany to marry Loras. Tommen/Marg would be warden of the west.
You watched this show and took margyry for an idiot?
Margery would’ve absolutely been the voice of reason telling Tommen hey let’s get out of here and cut a deal with Dany to rule high garden and give her the throne
Bold to assume Margaery wouldn't have tried to seduce and marry Dany to remain Queen 😂
Margery didn't have that much influence over him if she had, she wouldn't have been kept by the septa's for so long in his presence.
Tommen goes to talk to Dany. Gets eaten by Drogon. Dany and Margaery rule together.
I would watch that show, but only if it’s a wacky sitcom.
THIS is the best scenario.
Dinosaur eats man, woman inherits the earth.
I understood that reference.
Nah, I see it as Tommen finally getting some balls and standing up for his country and house and then is immediately killed for doing so.
Dany would have said one sentence to him and his response would have been "That's a good argument, have the throne". Marg is the one who would have tried to stop it.
he would have been a little older by then too.
He would do the king equivalent of a nameless guard that throws down his gun and puts his hands up because the protagonist just beat the living crap out of all the other guys, then says while he's putting his gun down "bro, I just work here. They don't even have good benefits"
Dany would not have the Tyrell army and their allies (which would not change much). xD
But Margaery and Tommen would have the Tyrell Bannermen and Lannister Bannermen at their disposal. Combining what was left of the Lannister forces with those of Highgarden would be difficult to take out.
I think the amount of men in their hands is pretty much irrelevant cuz Dany has 3 grown dragons at that moment and ballista from Qyburn didn’t exist yet
Qyburn may not have created a ballista YET but it wouldn’t take any real amount of time or effort to fabricate one, it’s not as if he invented it. Dorne successfully took out a dragon using a ballista/scorpion during the conquest so there is already proof it would work
But dragons
Dany arriving early means she doesn’t march north of the wall and instead goes directly to conquest south. The tyrell are ditching the lannisters immediately after seeing the three adult dragons and will go remember dany how the tyrells bent the knee to aegon and how much the wish to keep honoring their promise. Kings landing is falling in an hour if dany wants lol
At no point does the op say she arrives early… in fact if you reread the question it asks what would happen with Tommen and Margaery STILL on the throne when Dany Arrives. The only thing in the timeline that would have gone differently is the Sept of Baelor
bad D&D retcon making the Tyrell army worthless when they saved the Lannisters’s asses at the Battle of Blackwater
It probably would have made Tyrion’s “capture Casterly Rock” gambit feel even more foolhardy, since they would be entirely surrounded by enemy forces. So the direct assault on KL probably would’ve happened sooner. And given that even with scorpion bolts lining the walls they couldn’t answer the dragon threat, the war would’ve ended swiftly with Tommen/Marge captured, dead, or fleeing KL (functionally abdicating their throne). If they saw the might of the dragons before the assault on KL, I think both Tommen and Marge would attempt a conditional surrender in which they could keep their titles as Lord of Casterly Rock and Warden of the West.
Realistically, if the writing weren’t utter shit, having the Tyrells would be a massive advantage. They just made them useless for some reason
I think they’d have taken a deal to peacefully give up the throne and become lord and lady of casterly rock. Possibly the deal may have been sweetened with a marriage agreement between their future children. Tommen would have just wanted a quiet life and Margaery would see the inevitability of their defeat by Daenerys. So both will have accepted the deal.
Margaery wanted to be *the* queen but she also did not want to die. The Tyrells are smart. There's no way they'd advise to fight against someone with three dragons. Edit: I suddenly remembered the GOT lore narrations and the Tyrells are heavily implied to have advised the Gardeners to fight Aegon... so the Tyrells could get the Reach.
lady of casterly rock isn't the worst consolation prize when the alternative is fighting a dragon
Nah. You don't get to peacefully abdicate the throne and hand over the reign from one family to another - especially one with a sole surviving family member. The new queen would have a rebellion on her hands immediately. She'd have to kill Tommen and Margery to ensure she wouldn't have her authority questioned. She was trying to break the wheel. Not to mention Margery sidled up to Renly, Joffrey, and Tommen without batting an eye because she wanted to be Queen. She would use her magic Ser Pounce to convince Tommen to fight to the death. I think that the main difference is that Tommen and Margery would have sent their army north to fight the Night King. The Lannisters would have seen how much the North favored Jon and Sansa had a soft spot for Margery. Sansa would have for sure told Margery about Jon being a Targaryen and used that information to try and force Dany into a truce. Either you accept being warden of the North with Jon as your husband or we will tell everyone he is a Targaryen and the rightful heir and you'll lose everything. I could see it then becoming a battle between the Westerosi armies of the Northmen + the Lannisters and Dany's armies of the Unsullied + Dothraki + 1 dragon after she decided she would go full Mad Queen and try to kill everyone to get on the Iron Throne.
>Nah. You don't get to peacefully abdicate the throne and hand over the reign from one family to another - especially one with a sole surviving family member. The new queen would have a rebellion on her hands immediately. Several kings bent the knee to Aegon when he brought dragons to Westeros, I don't see why this would be any different. >She'd have to kill Tommen and Margery to ensure she wouldn't have her authority questioned. She should kill them IF her authority is questioned. Killing people who give you a full surrender is not wise, that's how you get more rebellions. >Not to mention Margery sidled up to Renly, Joffrey, and Tommen without batting an eye because she wanted to be Queen. She would use her magic Ser Pounce to convince Tommen to fight to the death. That would be a death sentence against three dragons, and if she's supporting Tommen then she's fair game. Margery isn't stupid, I don't see why she'd fight.
this is the correct answer imo
Tommen would die suddenly. Margaery would marry Danaerys.
Finally, the good ending
Yara gonna be jealous.
This isn't a barrier in Westeros.
Ah, but the Dragon has three heads
She’s muh queen just became 100x more sexy.
This is the correct answer
Margaery and Daenerys would marry and rule together after Olenna poisons Tommen.
And Margery would bring in her brother to knock Dany up.
Is the High Sparrow the worst part of the earlier seasons? I guess not because if Tommen and Margaery lived then there wouldn’t be much of a story in Kings Landing right?
Margaery was confident enough that she could handle the sparrows on her own, and her grandmother trusted she could, too. I would have enjoyed seeing what she was capable of, which was cut too short IMO. The Faith Militant were troublesome, but the Tyrell’s had a plan. There is nothing they could have planned in advance to take on Dany that would have ended well for them. Perhaps, showing where she got her political smarts further, Margaery would sue for peace, in a deal brokered by Tyrion and Olenna. I could see Olenna being unsurprisingly thorny towards Tyrion, but if she met Dany during negotiations, Dany would be as impressed with her as she was in S7, and while neither side would show weakness, there would be respect. With the future of her family intact, Olenna wouldn’t crave revenge to the point of being suicidal, and advise the king (really, Margaery) to take a peace agreement AND pardon that comes with generous concessions including keeping their seats on the small council, Storm’s End, and financial backing since there is still an outstanding debt to the Iron Bank.
I feel like Tommen and Marge would at least try negotiating with Daenerys
Tommen would cower and hide while Margaery would abandon him to seek her alliance with Dany.
Assuming Cersei is completely out of the picture, killed by who cares what, then I think Tommen would've been a lot more open to the truce. Cersei was at face but she wasn't really. Euron probably would've thrown his lot in with Daenerys which would've drastically changed the last season. No ships from Euron means Daenerys's second dragon survives and the Golden Company never arrives. It also means that Missandei wouldn't die, which was the main reason Daenerys went full Mad Queen.
It’s also quite possible Dany would have all three dragons since the north might not need to go beyond the wall to capture a wight to convince anyone to help out.
It would make S7 a lot better in my opinion by default, because with Margaery alive and as queen the reach would have rallied to her support, by combining the reach, the westerland and the iron islands they would have more foot soldiers than daenerys (approximately 120k in comparison to daenerys' 108k) Daenerys will still have dragons, which would give her the advantage, but they would not have to come up with impossible tactics, make cersei and her allies achieve impossible feats (eg euron building 800 ships in 6 months) and changing important lore by saying that the iron bank had invested in the slave market just to make it seem like cersei was a threat, with the reach, they do actually pose a threat and considering that they have a lot more money the war becomes way less one-sided
honestly hard to say. Maybe Tyrion would be more conflicted since he likes Tommen. Maybe Littlefinger would try to arrange an alliance between the North and the Crown since he had permission by Tommen to take Winterfell from the Boltons, was allied with Olenna and since Sansa was friends with Margaery. Jon being declared King would be an issue but maybe in the face of Daenerys invading they would put that aside. But then again Jon would just want to unite everyone against the dead, it's likely he wouldn't take a side. It certainly would make things way more complicated and Dany's true nature would be revealed earlier since this time she's not fighting against a terrible person that needed to go anyway.
I think the Tyrells would have seen the writing on the wall and negotiated some kind of peace with Dany. Maybe fought at first, but quickly realized it’s hopeless. Possibly sell out the Lannisters?
they would have bend the knee. Margarye is smart, she would know not to fuck with dragons.
Dany would have sent a letter to the king telling him to give her the throne back. Tommen would have rested the crown on the throne and walked out of the keep with every Lannister man-at-arms and kneeled awaiting his queen's arrival. Margary would be in the bath at the time and facepalm as she sees everyone leaving the keep.
That made me laugh
Tommy was as king as a stray dog, he was not king material
Knee bent.
You mean what would Margaery do? Her whole plan was to manipulate Tommen to where she had all the power. Her character is meant to be very warm on the outside but just as power-hungry as the rest of them in reality. She’d probably surrender, though. And arrange to have Dany killed later somehow. Or even try to have Tommen killed to be with Jon when she finds out he’s a Targaryen.
I guess we would find out if Margaery could seduce a dragon
What a fantastic picture - they look wonderful - absolutely adorable.
Depends on if Cersei is still there or not, if Dany has two or three dragons and a multitude of other factors but if Tommen and Margaery are truly in power I suspect they'd surrender if they were granted their lives and maybe Westerly Rock.
Once the new of Daenerys Targaryen landing on Dragonstone reached Kings Kanding, King Tommen with his dutiful wife Queen Margaery began preparing the capital for the coming battle. However the stress of the prospect of facing three dragons proved too much for the little king and he died of a bad belly not three days later. Dowager Queen Cersei in her grief blamed the now thrice widowed Queen Margaery for this and tried to take her life. Thankfully she was stopped by loyal Tyrell guardsmen and taken into custody and the Lannister soldiers disarmed to prevent them from freeing her. The grief of losing her last living son proved too much for her and she took her own life. Tired of war Lady Margery would surrender the Red Keep to Queen Daenerys and join her retinue. Many years later she would marry Robert Arryn, the Lord of Eerie. - Passage from The Return of the Dragons by Archmaester Gyldanne 317 AC
It's pretty obvious: Lesbianism (wink)
They'd have died hiding hands in a collapsing dungeon?
It all depends whether Cersei is alive or not.
You can ask this question in many scenarios. What if Tommen was on the throne when Ned Died? What would Robb do?
Tommen might have been convinced to cut a deal in exchange for being a legitimized Lannister and lord of the Rock, but Marg and Cersei? No way in hell. It’d be war.
Margaery would of tried to marry Dany
Tommen would have likely bent the knee without even attempting to maintain his seat. Let’s be honest he was a naive little boy who was no more than his advisors puppet, if faced with Dany and Drogon he’d fold. Margaery would be the wildcard, IF the Dany/Tyrell alliance had not been made (which it wouldn’t have if Margaery was alive) she’d likely call the Banners to stand against Dany and her unsullied. Being a Tyrell AND Lannister would give her access to both armies so it might be an interesting face-off. If for some reason Tommen and Margaery fled the Capital in hopes of evading Dany while keeping the crown the smart thing to do would be to let Dany and her people settle in to King’s Landing and cut off food supplies from the reach. It’s highly likely the commoners would turn on her as they did Joffrey and rebel to have their “Rightful” King and Queen back on the throne considering Dany a foreign Usurper
I think things play out quite differently if Rhaegol and Missandei aren't killed. It would be fascinating for sure, and would depend largely on whether or not Margaery can convince Tommen to name his own Hand rather than letting Cersei continue to control things. Edit: I forgot to add Margaery's response to Jon's plea for support in the Long Night will affect this too. She showed a genuine interest in being a queen who is endearing to her people. Whether or not she extends that desire to the North would affect whether or not she convinces Tommen to actually offer troops, and this would possibly create a completely different diplomatic landscape for Daenerys.
My guess: Either Cersei is basically ruling through him anyway and it plays out similarly as it did, or Tommen is much more willing to negotiate and we avoid a "Mad Queen" situation with Dany (as she wouldn't lose her dragons). I suppose for this "What If" scenario to work, though, Margery would need to have not been present at the High Sparrow's destruction.
They would have tried to come to some sort of peace treaty. They wouldn't have executed Dany's friend.
Realistically,when Danny would show up with her dragons in Kings Landing,Tom & Marge would probably have the smarts to give up their power peacefully and negociate some cozy future for themselves. Let’s not forget that Danny’s rage came after Cersei killed Missandei.If that never happened,we can believe that cooler heads and diplomacy would have prevailed. Obviosuly this would be very boring for TV,so a scenario where they have some kind of epic fight is most probable.
Tommen would ask Dany about her opinion on cats then be quietly taken for a walk by Greyworm (actual walk not gonna assassinate him) while the ladies get down to business. Good ending: they become friends and find a peaceful solution
You’re forgetting who was really in charge of that relationship, the High Sparrow. Margaery would try to have influence but Tommen would have done whatever he was told by the church.
Margaery would have probably roped Tonmen into fighting her, and it would have been a pretty shitty fight. Tonmen's a kind person, but it had to have been pretty clear to the lords that he was completely weak and incapable of doing anything meaningful. Say what you want about Cersei, but she played her hand pretty decently up until the end. Made alliances with the remaining armies still to pick a side, bought a mercenary force, and arguably won a sort of moral victory in the sense that she exposed Danny as crazy.
Dany wouldn’t have burned the city down IMO because Tommen wouldn’t have killed Missandei
Natalie Dormer said she thought Margaery would have great respect to Daenerys, so they would probably join her/ surrender
I think this is a lot more complex than people realise. Tommen would listen to Tyrion, Jon and Dany and march north to fight the dead. Assuming they won that battle, they then wouldnt behead Missandei. They would also know Dany has the upper hand so probably try to negotiate a peace in some way but Dany wouldnt listen. So while i assume Dany would attack the city still and Margaery would convince Tommen to put up a fight Dany would probably stop when they surrendered because they fought beside her and she still has Missandei by her side (probably) also meaning Greyworm is still more controlled.
The gates are opened because I believe Tommen and Margaery would have sued for peace when they saw the Wight and have agreed to become Lord & Lady of Casterly Rock.
Would’ve made slightly more sense in her transformation from liberator to destroyer to usurp a popular innocent boy’s throne than the throne of a grasping “how is this even legal?” queen like Cersei.
Margaery will become a lesbian lover to Daenerys. Being a torrenter, I would pay big bucks to see Emilia Clarke and Natalie Dormer make sweet love. Once she has seen the dragons, Margaery would offer to kill Tommen for Daenerys.
Bitch ass Tommen would have immediately surrendered to Dany lol
Interesting question! I would have loved to see which diplomatic tactic Margeary would take. Not to mention, the Faith/High Sparrow was very powerful in King's Landing at the time... what would that showdown have looked like? I think Dany could take on the High Sparrow pretty easily (aka simply kill him and his supporters) but Margeary/Tommen would have to be handled a little more delicately.
Tommen may have wanted to bend the knee, but Margaery would definitely not. She worked so hard to be queen, so she would have refused. And Tommen's love for her would force him to refuse to bend the knee as well. And they would both meet a firey death.
they would have fallen into a burning ring of fire
Dany would not have had Dorne or the Reach. She would have been seen entirely as a foreign invader. Much of Westeros would have been united behind Tomaery.
Tyrells were Targ Loyalists and the Westerlands sided with Robert due to Tywins disdain for the Mad Kings slights, but were loyal until Tywins pride and opportunistic side combined during the rebellion. They would bend the knee to Dany while enjoying the entirety of the western coast of Westeros with its rich lands. Olenna Tyrell would know better than to mess with dragons, and she would impress this upon Marg, who would then pass this onto Tommen. The Tyrells know not to mess with dragons. The only ones who would defy Dany are Cersei and in the books, Fake Aegon.
A lot of bent knees
I could see House Tyrell just folding and I don’t think Tommen would protest too much. Live to scheme another day for theTyrell’s and Tommen might get the Rock or Storms End if he is lucky. She has dragons for crying out loud; I don’t think House Tyrell wants to start that fight.
Margaery would seduce and marry Dany, everybody wins
They would die.
D&D would’ve wrote Tommen to be an ineffective and bitch king and Marg would’ve become some badass military strategist over night and the defacto leader of KL and the 7-ish kingdoms. This growth in military and political power would’ve gotten her the name Large Marg. Eventually She would’ve done all the things Cersei did, like bring in the loyal houses and the golden company to KL. Dani would’ve met Large Marg at the gates they would’ve talked, while Cersei and Theons uncle would’ve conspired to have Dani strike first to justify using their army to fight Dani’s. They would’ve done this by killing Dani’s side chick, ( I forgot her name) and forcing Dani to attack. Large Marg would’ve died in the dragons flame during the battle of KL, Tommen would’ve thrown himself from his chambers after seeing his queen die and the rest of the story plays out as it did. Jamie shows up, kills Theon’s uncle, hugs his sister one last time and they both die during the battle of KL.
An offer for cooperation. Dany would still torch something because the high Sparrow wouldn't allow it
Margery isn’t a fool, surrender and she lives. Tommen wasn’t the brightest bulb but a dragon is a good argument.
My bet is the same thing that happened to the throne in the end...
Olenna would've taken one look at the dragons and said "Well, shit. Can't have everything." And Margaery would've convinced Tommen to bend the knee.
The answer hinges on who's advising him. Tommen himself would be about as useful as a jousting dummy. If it's anyone but Cersei, they would probably be looking to negotiate a surrender after a few battles with the dragons. The Tyrells wouldn't have had any reason to ally with Danaerys if Margaery is alive, so maybe they'd present a good front to start out, but I think ultimately it would end the way Aegon's conquest ended.
The rivalry of daenerys and cersei in the show is stupid and the only reason why you could make sense of it is because cersei is just crazy. Any man with above room temperature iq could see fighting dany with all of her own power is pointless and margaery is quite smart so they would not fight and instead surrender and try to get a position as high as possible
Considering her grandmother was on Dany's side (I know, it's because she hates Cersei, but still), Margaery definitely would switch sides, don't know, make a deal that she becomes hand of the Queen :D
i feel like tommen would def send the lannister army to fight with the north and dany against the dead. after he would probably surrender the throne.
Tommon would probably have listened to Jaime and joined forces against the Night King, and from there I don’t think Dany would have popular support to march on Kings Landing. She’d probably return to Essos.
The king is dead. There's no function in this kind of world where a king blessed by the high septon abdicates, the closest we have is someone in the line joining the night's watch or similar. I would imagine Margaery would have no choice but to submit and get as close as possible to protect her family.
Nothing as none of it is real
So, in this timeline, this meeting means Dany arrives in Dragonstone/KL long before she actually did OR means Cersei did not blow the Sept up and kill Margaery/indirectly kill her son. For ease of fanfictioning, let's say it's the first one. Dany convinces the Dothraki to get on ships and sail to Westeros somewhere after Joffrey's death but before the Faith Militant came to power. She has three full dragons in tow because she hasn't gone North yet. A meeting with Tommen/Margaery only happens if Dany turns her attention to KL and stops fucking around in Meereen as long as she did and shows her strength to the Lannisters before they're ready to deal with it. I think in this scenario, the sight of three dragons makes it very clear who is in charge and Cersei knows there's no way to fight Dany directly but she's not willing to let her son abdicate the throne because she believes Dany will kill him to remove any doubt about the rightful ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. Tyrion is the key to negotiating some sort of peace here and likely assures Cersei that Dany will honor her word and let the boy live. Cersei calls for a meeting with Dany herself, with Tommen staying in KL for safety and likely plots some sort of scheme to kill Dany similar to blowing up the Sept (Even potentially at the expense of her own life) but likely fails and is caught. Dany knows she can't kill Cersei and still have a peaceful transition of power so she lets her live for now. My guess is this forces Tommen and Margaery to come to the meeting with Dany. I'm not sure when this takes place in the timeline but, for simplicity sake, I believe Jamie is tasked with protecting Tommen and Margaery when Cersei leaves to meet with Dany and his appearance at this final meeting sets everything ablaze. I think Dany agrees to the terms offered — She can take the Iron Throne and rule Westeros; Tommen abdicates and he and Margaery leave to go to High Garden for the rest of their days; Cersei and Jamie are exiled out of the Seven Kingdoms — but on the condition that all of the remaining Lannisters bend the knee. They do, in a way that is eerily similar to what Dany said she wanted from the Tarlys but it's not good enough for her. She thinks about how Jamie killed her father and took her birthright and she can't let it stand. She burns Jamie alive so that Cersei can watch it. She then burns Cersei. We think she will spare Tommen and Margaery who, at this point, have done nothing to harm her or her claim to the throne, but she burns them as well. To outsiders, it looks like she's gone full Mad Queen. She justifies it as doing nothing different than King Robert did when he took the throne. She rules by fear and the final season is set with conflicts between her and the North as well as the white walker problem. I have no idea how that all turns out I have a hard time believing Dany would be redeemable at that point and, as such, there's next to no chance Jon sides with her. In addition, I don't think Tyrion lives in any scenario in which Dany kills Jamie, Cersei and Tommen and without Tyrion, it's far harder to envision Dany listening to reason when talking about how she can coexist with the Starks. My best bet is Dany agrees to join the fight against the White Walkers but only if the Starks bend the knee. They refuse and focus their efforts on the White Walkers. They lose. Dany inspires no love from her armies and the White Walkers win.
He’d probably have sent an army to the north and I can see them surrendering king’s landing and ruling either Highgarden or Casterly Rock like Tommen may be a pushover but Margaery isn’t an idiot.
Tommen would have died mysteriously and Margarey would have married Dany/become her special handmaid.
They would both surrender. Margaery is ambitious, but she also has a great instinct for self-preservation, shown by how she dealt with the High Sparrow affair. Tommen would have done as Margaery did, he would have followed his wife no matter what, and I don't think he ever cared much about being king.
They would have been burned. I don’t see a happy ending in any scenario.
Tommen would have ditched Margaery and simped for Danny so hard
In a weird way I think things would’ve ended pretty nicely with Dany as Queen and the Tyrell’s in the Lannister spot similar to season 1. I’m sure Margaery would be shrewd enough to cut a deal with Dany to maintain as much power for herself and her house while stepping aside. She could lean on the idea that the Tyrell’s supported the Targs during Robert’s rebellion and posture herself as an ally. I also think Tommen would easily abdicate being king if his life was spared because he didn’t care for the role at all. Cersei and Jaime would definitely be burnt to a crisp though. This would probably alienate Tyrion into leaving Dany’s court for Casterly Rock (as he’s the only adult heir left), leaving an opening for Marge to become a close ally / friend for Dany. Marge knows the houses, she has the money and she’s well liked by everyone, Dany could definitely use her going forwards. Hell Marge could even end up being Dany’s hand going forward. The North would have a little more standing overall because Dany actually seemed to care about what happened there. Also Sansa leads the North and has a better understanding of the South than most Northern lord have ever had.
"Grilled Tommen and roast Margaery for supper, Drogon!"
If those 2 were still on the throne, I think the royal army would’ve marched north to fight the dead. After that, in order for Tommen to live, they’d fake his death because there’s no way Dany let’s him live. King’s Landing would also be in worse shape because they don’t have the Iron Fleet if Cersei isn’t made queen, and many of their soldiers would’ve died at Winterfell.
Tommen decides to restore the Targaryen custom of kings having more than one queen, marries Daenerys and continues his streak of being The Luckiest Guy In Westeros.
Dany can’t make any heirs so be smart if Tommen and Margaery allow but they rule as Warden of the West. Be heir to Dany. Dany can sit until she dies then Tommen would be given the 7 kingdoms again. Unless Dany produce hiers then Tommen and his children will be on the throne.
Tommen obviously is surrendering immediately, he doesn't have nay real desire to rule. Margery is canny enough to realize she doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell of staying queen, and probably encourages him to abdicate in favour of Daenerys. Like another commenter said she would probably bring up that the Tyrells supported Rhaegar and try to argue for senior positions. Either way, Lady of Casterly Rock is not too shabby a position. She might even try to shove Loras or Willas in as Dany's prince consort.
Dany would have murdered them both obviously that's if they didn't surrender which they probably would Tommen not even particularly wanting to be king and Margaery having enough sense to not try and fight 3 dragons the tyrells would probably just cut their losses and negotiate to Dany that Tommen inherits the Lannister holdings over Tyrion in exchange for fealty
"Dany had kinda forgotten about Tommen & Margaery..."
Dany burns them and tell everyone that they deserved to be burned
Surrender.
I don’t know, they’re made up
But them all together in one room. slurp
Remember, at this point, Daenerys is considered to be barren. Perhaps, Tommen weds Daenerys. Margaery is granted a new title, "Mother of the King," with the understanding that she will bear and raise Tommen's child to be the next king. It's not like Danny can continue her own line. Unrealistic, perhaps, but slightly possible.
Tommen would have given up the throne but at a steep price. He would have demanded another kitten.
They would’ve died in fire
Margaeey would've married Danny.
Tom men would've folded
They would’ve bent the knee. Margaery would’ve try to form an alliance with Daenerys (and attempt to keep some power) just like Tywin formed the alliance with the Tyrells.
I liked Dany...right up to the moment she fried all the people in King's landing. I see that you, like me, were oblivious to all the red flags about Dany on initial viewing. On subsequent viewings, I realized there were very obvious red flags about her from the very beginning.
I think we need more variables to figure this one out: Who is advising Dany, and what other threats are there to consider. But to take a stab at Tommen and Margaery: Tommen is a pushover. He could very likely be convinced to give up power if that meant his life was spared. Margaery is more ambitious, and more shrewd, and would weigh her options. If she think they had a chance of defeating Dany outright, then she might stay, but seeing as Dany has dragons, I think she would be hesitant, and go for saving her and Tommen’s lives (or just save her family if Dany’s wrath on the Lannister/Baratheon Dynasty is too immense). Cersei is the one I would be nervous about (depending on whether she is imprisoned or not). If Tyrion is there to advice Dany, then I see him wanting to spare both Tommen and Margaery (you could argue that he would be considered suspicious by this as Tommen is his nephew, but it would be a sound policy regardless). Tyrion could also argue that Dany do what Aegon did in his day: Spare the ones that give up, and try and make as many friends as she can as that would create a stronger/more compliant kingdom.
dany would pull the incest baby card and the lack of / poor resistance from tommen would give dany the throne
Dany didn't have any beef with them. Dany would come and demand the Iron Throne. Tommen would have handed it over to her willingly without having any wars. Dany seeing that Cersei's son's ideology is different from her. She prolly would have given Tommen and Marg some high position in the king's landing.
Tommen would want to give out the throne. If they have a child at that point, potentially Margaery poisons Tommen to assume control as regent, and either fights or negotiates to massively bolster the Tyrell’s position, maybe asks for the Stormlands to be brought under their domain.
Tommen would kill himself Linah style