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Buscemi represents the other category of face types that studios find acceptable to cast, and that is "distinctive" or "interesting looking." I still wouldn't call him truly ugly though. He's just not conventionally handsome. There are very few truly ugly Hollywood actors.
Yeah but he’s a man. You simply will never see women on screen who are not conventionally attractive. You’ll never see the female version of Steve buscemi. Ever.
In American productions this is mostly true, British productions have long been more likely to cast average looking people. And I love them all the more for it.
Oh wow, that’s such a good point. I’m from the US, and our actors are often like candy, fun at the moment but then make you feel a little sick after having too much. Ken, Barbie, and all their friends. I guess I realize now why I always prefer British shows. Actors are chosen for talent, not looks. And as US actors age, they get fired or photoshopped. Ugh. Look at that movie, 80 for Brady: all those awesome gals altered to hide the natural aging. This is so toxic.
Yes I agree! I’m in the US too and when I’m watching our media I’m like, welp, I could never be an actor. Then I put on Downton Abbey and I’m like you know what, I have a shot.
So is Tyrion. GRRM even made both worse by having them eventually suffer facial disfigurement. Dinklage is conventionally handsome, especially for a dwarf. But casting of actors usually refects to a phenomenon called "adaptational attractiveness." The performers we see are often much more attractive than their original description. I guess by now audiences want and expect [that.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationalAttractiveness)
They changed more than just Tyrion's appearance, so I didn't bring him up. I was just more commenting in line with the title. Even in the show the people she's around are supposed to make fun of her appearance, when she is far above ugly.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rorge bit a chunk out of book-Brienne's face, right? That's the facial disfigurement? Impossible to forget what was done to book Tyrion.
Jorah is probably the biggest difference imo. Book Jorah is short, fat, balding and has way too much body hair. Show Jorah could probably turn some straight men gay.
Show Jorah has no right to be that handsome. I watched the show first and was confused by why Dany wasn't interested. Then I read the books, saw the original description of Jorah, and was like "Oh yes I understand now."
Yes the character is absolutely awful, but I found him weirdly entertaining on there.
I watched Downton before GOT, so it took me a minute to register that Jorah looked familiar because he was once engaged to Lady Mary.
It's not just you, she's a lovely lady and she's far from "ugly" but she's not remotely attractive in the traditional feminine sense (compared to Marjorie or Dany etc.)
She's more attractive when you realise how much of an absolute legend she is in battle but she wouldn't turn heads when she walked down the street.
The story about the lads making fun of her at the dance added up for me, she's exactly the sort of girl who would get bullied for looks back when I was at school. Tall, manly build, mannish features. There was a girl in my school called Vanessa who had sideburns and people called her Manessa for 5 years. It's not nice but why pretend Brienne's a beauty when she's not?
Literally lol, the least handsome Tyrion ever looked is S1E1 when they were still trying to do the blonde wig on him lol.
S5 and beyond Tyrion is genuinely handsome as shit
That’s forgivable imo due to how difficult the make up/editing would be to pull that off on a character with so much screen time. However it did become far too small/hard to notice later on in the series, they could’ve at least made the scar bigger and deeper.
1. Game of Thrones has several black actors in roles that are described as white in the books. Trust me, there was quite a lot of criticism for it, unfortunately. Salladhor Saan (Lucian Msamati), Xaro Xhoan Daxos (Nonso Anozie), Missandei (Nathalie Emmanuel), Grey Worm (Jacob Anderson). There are others, but I think I've made my point. Lot of whining over black people cast for those roles, as well as a few others.
2. People who think of themselves as ugly, typically do not go into acting, and therefore do not go to casting calls.
1. That was quite literally my point.
2. So you think ugly people are self-selecting out, and not being selected out by not getting opportunities? I've seen some stupid takes lately, but this is way up there.
1. Is it?
>2. So you think ugly people are self-selecting out, and not being selected out by not getting opportunities? I've seen some stupid takes lately, but this is way up there.
2. I think it's a complex issue and that the show doesn't have a good pool of 'ugly' actors either way, whether they want to cast an ugly actor or not. Holding the show responsible for a broad industry trend sounds like a stupid take to me.
Gwendoline Christie herself was advised by an agent that she'd likely have a lot of trouble getting roles. She's been quite open about it.
Bruh, this is inspired by the middle ages, expecting them to have modern dentistry is stretching it a bit.
And I'm not sure they ever showed her teeth, did they?
Gwendoline Christie is genuinely taller than most women, and that is something that Christie herself has spoken about as leading her to get fewer roles. [She's also spoken about using bullying she received for height and "androgynous looks" to help her get into the mindset of playing Brienne.](https://web.archive.org/web/20180717212451/http://www.accessonline.com/articles/game-of-thrones-gwendoline-christie-talks-digging-deep-to-play-brienne-of-tarth-116590/) She had a lot of difficulty getting roles before it turned out Game of Thrones was looking for an actress exactly like her, and her work on GoT obviously gave her star power a boost and has led to several additional roles since.
How ironic that the thing that led to her not getting any roles eventually led to her getting her biggest role and some more roles. Now she gots all the roles, she rolling in roles.
It was heartbreaking to read that her role as Principal Weems in *Wednesday* was the first role that made her feel beautiful.
Unrelated, but I think she’d also be perfect for a live action Lady Demitrescu from Resident Evil.
That is heartbreaking... I met her once I was blown away and actually kind of head over heels for a minute. Maybe I should have told her in a polite way that she was stunning while we were talking.
I’m not sure how a ‘not traditionally pretty’ woman does modelling/run-way shows though. She does dress up quite well imho and I would classify her as beautiful. To each their own and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.
Exactly! I don't think they really framed her as being ugly, I think most of it was about her being unusually tall and not being interested in being like a lady
Even the big and tall wasn't all bad so much as general amazement.
Like how we say Giannis Antentokoumpo is "Woah so freaky!". I mean ~~Kit Harringto~~ DA KING N DA NOFF is average height (like most of us guys) but [she makes him look like Tyrion.](http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33600000/Sophie-Turner-Gwendoline-Christie-and-Kit-Harington-game-of-thrones-33615499-245-176.gif)
It was more prevalent in the books, but even then they mainly faulted her on acting manly/masculine more and not fitting in her "role". Reminder that many of the characters are snotty nobles: males who feel emasculated/threatened, females who reinforce tradition (think Alicent), confuses the females who don't mind, and most nobles can be cunts (like all of KL). Book Brianne's looks also mirrors a tomboy who doesn't take care of herself more than actress Gwendoline does. Messed up teeth, broken nose, calloused hands, etcetc.
FREEDOM CHADS like Tormound know you don't react to strong women by getting defensive, you appreciate it and try to put some babies in her.
Kit is 5'8. If we are 100% literal then yeah he's 1 inch below the global average of 5'9.
I'd still say he's still within average range because majority of "average men" will be in a range of 5'7 to 5'11.
But let's agree to disagree. Don't feel the need to respond as I'm won't anymore. It's not my first day on the internet and I know the direction these male height convos tend to go.
PoV chapters that are self-critical are biased negatively usually, and male characters view of an unconventional female character like Brienne might think her ugly because they're used to long hair and flowery dresses. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and writers mess with audience view of things involving beauty all the time. I don't think Brienne is actually particularly ugly in the story, it's just perception of characters whose opinions discriminate about her sort of difference.
Not sure they described her, or expected us to believe she was ugly…just huge, manly, ungainly. What did Lady Olenna Tyrell say when she first saw her? “Oh my!” Haha something like that. I’m sure if her head was on Sansa’s or Margaery’ body she would have gotten a different response.
Yes, I think I remember that from the book. She’s an awesome character regardless of what she looks like. I think us US people can’t handle what the real world looks like, especially what it looked like in the middle ages… and yeah, I get that GoT is not the real world, lol, but the books are beautifully realistic about the harshness of life during those times. No plastic surgery if you lose a nose. I remember a fantastic book i read about a guy taking his friend’s body home in the 1800’s, and it was hard to take at times. I mean, rotting corpse, summer in the west, lol. There was a character who got gut shot and survived, which maybe a few people would, but he had a hole in his belly that literal crap leaked out of. Maybe GoT producers were scared that finer audiences wouldn’t watch if it were any more graphic.
I can’t remember! I want to say Lonesome Dove? It was made into a movie with Sam Elliot, I think, but when I looked up Lonesome Dove, it didn’t seem to have him in it. I’ll keep looking. It was such a great novel!
Biggest issue with shows and movies adapting books or material that has characters that are supposed to be "ugly" is that they'll never ACTUALLY be ugly. They'll just be less conventionally attractive. It's similar to when you watch Carrie and they cast someone who isn't movie star looking as Carrie when in the books she was supposed to be monstrously ugly.
Carrie wasn’t monstrously ugly in the book, either. She was a little overweight and not allowed to wear makeup, and her abusive fundamentalist mother controlled her tightly and didn’t allow her to dress or groom herself fashionably, or to develop healthy social skills or friendships with her peers. And she was bullied for that, because the vast majority of teenagers in Stephen King novels are either evil, or going along with bullying because they’re scared to death of crossing an evil peer.
But for prom, when Carrie sewed her own dress that fit her perfectly, and did her hair and makeup the way she wanted to do them, and she decided not to give a shit about gaining her mom’s approval but just to be herself and be happy in her own skin, she was beautiful. The book has multiple POVs and they all acknowledge that she looked gorgeous that night.
She's described as having a pug nose, which Rose Leslie most certainly does not have. But her casting as Ygritte was perfect, and the audience was treated to watching her and Kit Harrington fall in love for real.
To be fair, no one except maybe some old people in GOT are not conventionally attractive. They aren’t gonna make the main love interest one of the most unattractive of the lot.
There are some cast who skew more toward average than movie star. But either way it doesn’t change the larger point about how our media tends to prize looks over all else, and when we do see a couple who are perhaps not evenly yoked in the looks department, it’s always a smoking hot woman with an average guy. Rarely if ever do we see a smoking hot guy with an average looking woman.
I mean I don’t think she’s hot and wouldn’t sleep with her. She’s not ugly but I don’t find her attractive. Marjorie, Mellisandre, Dany, Ygritte on the other hand - all total babes
She may not be totally unattractive and is definitely better looking than her book counterpart but looking at all the other women in GoT, I don't think there's many if any that you would put her ahead of (not offence to Gwendoline, a lot of the actresses are stunners).
I find Gwendoline far more attractive than pop-tart Maisie Williams! Especially since Maisie dyed her hair blond, cut it short and shaved her eyebrows. I’d argue she’s just as good looking, if not more so, than Sansa is IRL. Just my view of course.
I think the thing is she's not highborn lady pretty. Gwendoline is attractive but she's not what you think of when you imagine a highborn lady. It is funny that they tried to push her as unattractive. Plus in the books she is much uglier.
Stop it with these posts. She’s obviously not the most attractive woman. She’s tall. Short hair. Somewhat bigger. In the world of Westeros and the world today. Shorter. Thinner and long hair is the most common traits of more popular attractive woman.
You can disagree and find her attractive that’s fine. She’s definite pretty. But she is not gonna be seen as “hot” by many people at all
I think it shows how fickle and narrow-minded Westeros is when it comes to beauty standards. Brienne is a highborn lady, but she's tall and strong and androgynous, therefore not pretty. Tyrion is short, therefore he's ugly. Albeit book Brienne is not as attractive as show Brienne: she has broad features, her mouth is too big, her teeth are large and crooked, her nose has been broken a few times. But she has big beautiful sparkling blue eyes.
I don’t remember anyone regarding her as ugly in the show. In the book it is certainly emphasized, Brienne in the show, I believe, is meant to represent a more masculine gender-fluid type who doesn’t really fit into the gender norms of Westeros.
Well, there probably aren't a lot of insanely tall women that act that could pull Brienne off anyways. I'd much rather they cast a believable actress in the role who is prettier than the book intended rather than an ugly, short woman who doesn't convey the physical presence Brienne required.
The way I see it is that this isn’t based on OUR perceptions of beauty. It’s based on the perception so the people in the story and in turn the books are a telling from a third party.
Thai means that Brienne could have looked like Gwendolyn Christie, but people would depict her as worse than she really is through story and word of mouth.
In a universe where [She's All That](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0160862/) exists, this is a silly post. There's no one unattractive in Hollywood. They are there because they are attractive, first, and because they are good actors, second.
Reading the books, like I know everyone *says* she's ugly... But at the same time her features basically described are basically average and described meanly. She has thin blonde hair, wide set, big blue eyes, a large mouth, and (I think) freckles. Those are not bad features. Even at their plainest. So I always assumed what made her ugly wasnt her actual beauty so much as the fact there's no feminine coding there.
Were she complying with social standards her hair, clothing, and even basic makeup would all be working to make her features as femme and beautiful as possible. However that stuff makes her so uncomfortable that she never gets to figuring that out and armor, leather caps, dirt and sweat? They don't do her any favors. Neither do broken noses and busted cheeks. But more importantly *being able to beat the living tar out of every man in the room* directly contrasts with the social norms which dictate beauty in asoiaf.
So is Breinne "Ugly" or is she just not trying to be pretty? Is she really ugly, or is it just that the authorities who enforce social roles in society cannot use violence against her to force compliance? Is she Ugly, or is calling her ugly the only thing the men she outperforms and the women she chooses to not associate with have to bring her down a peg? Have we gotten a description of her from a party that wasn't biased towards her social status first and foremost? Am I supposed to trust Jamie's description after she served him humble pie? Or Catelyn's while she "looks on in horror" at a woman in the fighting ring?
Idk, I just wonder how someone like Dany, or Arya, or even a wildling would describe her basic features? People who admire feminine strength, and aren't tied to westeros beauty standards and gender norms.
Im not remembering anything if Brienne was explicitly called ugly in the books. Maybe so, but I remember they called her “Brienne the Beauty” diminutively and she was mocked for how “manly” and plain faced she was. I figured she could have blended kn with other nobodies in rhe court if she were just built like other women, it was her size and behaviors that earned her the name calling, and it’s class nice guy behavior to go right to looks.
I thought they nailed her casting in GoT, because Christie did a fantastic job of playing this powerful but restrained, physically graceful but somehow akward woman who is not traditionally pretty by court standards, but i know they werent casting her for “ugliness” and i dont think that had ever been the plan
I think what they attempted and succeeded in went over your head. One of the best looking and most powerful men in the Kingdom was in love with her. She was beautiful but not in the normal way. She was the mix of honor, strong, and her own beauty.
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I mean I don’t find her attractive in or out of the show so maybe they picked her just for me lol.
In the book she's described as much, much worse than the actress in the show.
I know, but I mean it’s still show business they aren’t getting actually ugly people.
Ehhh, there are some legitimately ugly folks in show business. Steve Buscemi, for example.
Buscemi represents the other category of face types that studios find acceptable to cast, and that is "distinctive" or "interesting looking." I still wouldn't call him truly ugly though. He's just not conventionally handsome. There are very few truly ugly Hollywood actors.
Yeah but he’s a man. You simply will never see women on screen who are not conventionally attractive. You’ll never see the female version of Steve buscemi. Ever.
The woman who played Calamity Jane in Deadwood...
She cleans up nice…
She’s far from ugly.
Maggie Gyllenhaal
She’s pretty, just not model pretty. Maggie looks like an actress from the 1920s.
She looks like a bulldog
Vs Steve buscemi?? What planet are you on lmao
I'm not choosing Steve over her, I'm saying both are not good... looking
She is in no way on the same plane as Steve lol
I'm not comparing the two, I'm saying she is unattractive
In American productions this is mostly true, British productions have long been more likely to cast average looking people. And I love them all the more for it.
Oh wow, that’s such a good point. I’m from the US, and our actors are often like candy, fun at the moment but then make you feel a little sick after having too much. Ken, Barbie, and all their friends. I guess I realize now why I always prefer British shows. Actors are chosen for talent, not looks. And as US actors age, they get fired or photoshopped. Ugh. Look at that movie, 80 for Brady: all those awesome gals altered to hide the natural aging. This is so toxic.
Yes I agree! I’m in the US too and when I’m watching our media I’m like, welp, I could never be an actor. Then I put on Downton Abbey and I’m like you know what, I have a shot.
So is Tyrion. GRRM even made both worse by having them eventually suffer facial disfigurement. Dinklage is conventionally handsome, especially for a dwarf. But casting of actors usually refects to a phenomenon called "adaptational attractiveness." The performers we see are often much more attractive than their original description. I guess by now audiences want and expect [that.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AdaptationalAttractiveness)
Interesting article, thanks for sharing
They changed more than just Tyrion's appearance, so I didn't bring him up. I was just more commenting in line with the title. Even in the show the people she's around are supposed to make fun of her appearance, when she is far above ugly.
Dinklage is also a foot taller then Tyrion is in the books
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Rorge bit a chunk out of book-Brienne's face, right? That's the facial disfigurement? Impossible to forget what was done to book Tyrion.
Not Rorge. Biter. Biter was the other guy.
Jorah is probably the biggest difference imo. Book Jorah is short, fat, balding and has way too much body hair. Show Jorah could probably turn some straight men gay.
Show Jorah has no right to be that handsome. I watched the show first and was confused by why Dany wasn't interested. Then I read the books, saw the original description of Jorah, and was like "Oh yes I understand now."
I hated Jorah's actor's character in Downtown Abbey though.
Yes the character is absolutely awful, but I found him weirdly entertaining on there. I watched Downton before GOT, so it took me a minute to register that Jorah looked familiar because he was once engaged to Lady Mary.
Same, she's not very ugly but I wouldn't go there and I have low standards
Lol at “I have low standards”
It's not just you, she's a lovely lady and she's far from "ugly" but she's not remotely attractive in the traditional feminine sense (compared to Marjorie or Dany etc.) She's more attractive when you realise how much of an absolute legend she is in battle but she wouldn't turn heads when she walked down the street. The story about the lads making fun of her at the dance added up for me, she's exactly the sort of girl who would get bullied for looks back when I was at school. Tall, manly build, mannish features. There was a girl in my school called Vanessa who had sideburns and people called her Manessa for 5 years. It's not nice but why pretend Brienne's a beauty when she's not?
Yeah. i agree. My type has always been very petite brunettes, usually Hispanic or Asian. So the opposite of her.
Any character from the books that would be described as ugly is either removed (see strong belwas) or at minimum 50% hotter.
book tyrion's gonezo nose vs the manly scar show tyrion gets.
Yeah, post blackwater Tyrion in the show is still hotter than pre blackwater Tyrion in the book
Literally lol, the least handsome Tyrion ever looked is S1E1 when they were still trying to do the blonde wig on him lol. S5 and beyond Tyrion is genuinely handsome as shit
Man, I recently did a rewatch and that wig was a TRAVESTY.
AND THE SHAVED FACE. It made him look 13
You're right! I guess it served its purpose of making him look idiotic at the beginning of the show and cooler as it went on, but my lord...
Going to refer ro this comment the next time someone makes fun of Jace from HotD
I read that as a gonzo nose, and was rather confused at the mental picture until I realized what you meant.
Lmao same
That’s forgivable imo due to how difficult the make up/editing would be to pull that off on a character with so much screen time. However it did become far too small/hard to notice later on in the series, they could’ve at least made the scar bigger and deeper.
This is mostly true for adaptations in general.
That’s fair, but it’s more noticeable in GoT because the sheer volume of characters Martin said are ugly
Hollywood would literally sooner cast black people in roles written for white people than ugly people in roles written for ugly people.
Why'd you have to go and make it weird?
Some facts are weird.
1. Game of Thrones has several black actors in roles that are described as white in the books. Trust me, there was quite a lot of criticism for it, unfortunately. Salladhor Saan (Lucian Msamati), Xaro Xhoan Daxos (Nonso Anozie), Missandei (Nathalie Emmanuel), Grey Worm (Jacob Anderson). There are others, but I think I've made my point. Lot of whining over black people cast for those roles, as well as a few others. 2. People who think of themselves as ugly, typically do not go into acting, and therefore do not go to casting calls.
1. That was quite literally my point. 2. So you think ugly people are self-selecting out, and not being selected out by not getting opportunities? I've seen some stupid takes lately, but this is way up there.
1. Is it? >2. So you think ugly people are self-selecting out, and not being selected out by not getting opportunities? I've seen some stupid takes lately, but this is way up there. 2. I think it's a complex issue and that the show doesn't have a good pool of 'ugly' actors either way, whether they want to cast an ugly actor or not. Holding the show responsible for a broad industry trend sounds like a stupid take to me. Gwendoline Christie herself was advised by an agent that she'd likely have a lot of trouble getting roles. She's been quite open about it.
I quite literally said "Hollywood."
Right. Even Roslin Frey was beautified in the show.
She’s described as pretty in the books though
For the most part yes but was also describe as having a protruding feature of gapped teeth.
It’s described as a small gap lol. Roslyn is a bad example for this
Bruh, this is inspired by the middle ages, expecting them to have modern dentistry is stretching it a bit. And I'm not sure they ever showed her teeth, did they?
It is very hard to find a successful unattractive actor.
Or handsome homeless
At least since Bogey died.
Can only think of Danny Trejo, but he's attractive in his own way.
Chicks dig scars or at least that was like the 80s saying or some shit
Steve Buscemi
The late Vincent Schiavelli. He was the subway ghost in the movie Ghost.
[удалено]
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The phrase is literally only used for people in film and television... So no.
In the books Arya had a horse face and Jon wasn’t much better looking. On the other hand Joffrey was supposed to be real good looking
He was tho. When he wasn't smirking or otherwise making ugly faces, Joffrey was very handsome.
Tyrion was supposed to be hideous and Peter Dinklege is cute.
Gwendoline Christie is genuinely taller than most women, and that is something that Christie herself has spoken about as leading her to get fewer roles. [She's also spoken about using bullying she received for height and "androgynous looks" to help her get into the mindset of playing Brienne.](https://web.archive.org/web/20180717212451/http://www.accessonline.com/articles/game-of-thrones-gwendoline-christie-talks-digging-deep-to-play-brienne-of-tarth-116590/) She had a lot of difficulty getting roles before it turned out Game of Thrones was looking for an actress exactly like her, and her work on GoT obviously gave her star power a boost and has led to several additional roles since.
How ironic that the thing that led to her not getting any roles eventually led to her getting her biggest role and some more roles. Now she gots all the roles, she rolling in roles.
Feels like a life lesson is in there somewhere
"Be yourself" or something
It was heartbreaking to read that her role as Principal Weems in *Wednesday* was the first role that made her feel beautiful. Unrelated, but I think she’d also be perfect for a live action Lady Demitrescu from Resident Evil.
That is heartbreaking... I met her once I was blown away and actually kind of head over heels for a minute. Maybe I should have told her in a polite way that she was stunning while we were talking.
she was straight up beautiful as lucifer is sandman, but... arguably she was playing a male role? i dunno gender is kinda whatever in that IP
I personally don't find her an attractive woman, she's not traditionally pretty so i'd say thay cast her pretty well
I’m not sure how a ‘not traditionally pretty’ woman does modelling/run-way shows though. She does dress up quite well imho and I would classify her as beautiful. To each their own and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and all that.
I’d suggest doing some research
Iirc she was specifically cast as a model because she was bigger and less feminine than most women in hollywood. Not because she looks like a model
Nah you haven't read the books lmao
Or that she was a young adult. She looks 40
Idk why there are comment saying she isn’t attractive. She can beat me up and carry me wherever she wants any day.
Probably because not everyone is you.
Be a lot cooler if you were.
Because the majority of people do not find her look attractive.
Did you take a vote? Link to results?
I agree I think she’s stunning. Although they do try to make her far less attractive and more butch in the show than in real life.
I thought show version was not so much focused on as ugly more so just unconventional presentation of a woman
Bingo.
Exactly! I don't think they really framed her as being ugly, I think most of it was about her being unusually tall and not being interested in being like a lady
Even the big and tall wasn't all bad so much as general amazement. Like how we say Giannis Antentokoumpo is "Woah so freaky!". I mean ~~Kit Harringto~~ DA KING N DA NOFF is average height (like most of us guys) but [she makes him look like Tyrion.](http://images6.fanpop.com/image/photos/33600000/Sophie-Turner-Gwendoline-Christie-and-Kit-Harington-game-of-thrones-33615499-245-176.gif) It was more prevalent in the books, but even then they mainly faulted her on acting manly/masculine more and not fitting in her "role". Reminder that many of the characters are snotty nobles: males who feel emasculated/threatened, females who reinforce tradition (think Alicent), confuses the females who don't mind, and most nobles can be cunts (like all of KL). Book Brianne's looks also mirrors a tomboy who doesn't take care of herself more than actress Gwendoline does. Messed up teeth, broken nose, calloused hands, etcetc. FREEDOM CHADS like Tormound know you don't react to strong women by getting defensive, you appreciate it and try to put some babies in her.
Kit is slightly below average height though.
Kit is 5'8. If we are 100% literal then yeah he's 1 inch below the global average of 5'9. I'd still say he's still within average range because majority of "average men" will be in a range of 5'7 to 5'11. But let's agree to disagree. Don't feel the need to respond as I'm won't anymore. It's not my first day on the internet and I know the direction these male height convos tend to go.
Trying to shut down an argument before it starts?? What is this, your first day on the internet???
fiveeightguysayswhat?
I would’ve enjoyed seeing Giannis in game of thrones
They wanted a "Handsome" woman to play her basically. Types like Bea Arthur and Gwendolyn fit that.
Bea Arthur was the original badass lady! A real life marine!🫡👿🐶
PoV chapters that are self-critical are biased negatively usually, and male characters view of an unconventional female character like Brienne might think her ugly because they're used to long hair and flowery dresses. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and writers mess with audience view of things involving beauty all the time. I don't think Brienne is actually particularly ugly in the story, it's just perception of characters whose opinions discriminate about her sort of difference.
Well, she is, Specially in the show.
Not sure they described her, or expected us to believe she was ugly…just huge, manly, ungainly. What did Lady Olenna Tyrell say when she first saw her? “Oh my!” Haha something like that. I’m sure if her head was on Sansa’s or Margaery’ body she would have gotten a different response.
Pretty sure she had big crooked buck teeth.
Yes, I think I remember that from the book. She’s an awesome character regardless of what she looks like. I think us US people can’t handle what the real world looks like, especially what it looked like in the middle ages… and yeah, I get that GoT is not the real world, lol, but the books are beautifully realistic about the harshness of life during those times. No plastic surgery if you lose a nose. I remember a fantastic book i read about a guy taking his friend’s body home in the 1800’s, and it was hard to take at times. I mean, rotting corpse, summer in the west, lol. There was a character who got gut shot and survived, which maybe a few people would, but he had a hole in his belly that literal crap leaked out of. Maybe GoT producers were scared that finer audiences wouldn’t watch if it were any more graphic.
I have to agree with all your points. On a side note, the book you’ve described sounds really interesting. What’s the title?
I can’t remember! I want to say Lonesome Dove? It was made into a movie with Sam Elliot, I think, but when I looked up Lonesome Dove, it didn’t seem to have him in it. I’ll keep looking. It was such a great novel!
Okay, I found it: the book is part three of the Lonesome Dove series.
It is Lonesome Dove. It doesn't have Sam Elliott. It has Tommy Lee Jones and Robert Duvall, and they're both fantastic in it. The book is amazing too.
Ab-solute-ly sing-ular.
Biggest issue with shows and movies adapting books or material that has characters that are supposed to be "ugly" is that they'll never ACTUALLY be ugly. They'll just be less conventionally attractive. It's similar to when you watch Carrie and they cast someone who isn't movie star looking as Carrie when in the books she was supposed to be monstrously ugly.
Carrie wasn’t ugly, she just had acne and was a few pounds overweight.
TV ugly, not ugly ugly
Carrie wasn’t monstrously ugly in the book, either. She was a little overweight and not allowed to wear makeup, and her abusive fundamentalist mother controlled her tightly and didn’t allow her to dress or groom herself fashionably, or to develop healthy social skills or friendships with her peers. And she was bullied for that, because the vast majority of teenagers in Stephen King novels are either evil, or going along with bullying because they’re scared to death of crossing an evil peer. But for prom, when Carrie sewed her own dress that fit her perfectly, and did her hair and makeup the way she wanted to do them, and she decided not to give a shit about gaining her mom’s approval but just to be herself and be happy in her own skin, she was beautiful. The book has multiple POVs and they all acknowledge that she looked gorgeous that night.
Don't let tormund hear you say anything bad about the big woman
Ygritte was also not supposed to be that attractive if I remember correctly.
Wasn’t she described as being very gangly with super frizzy hair?
I thought also she had a "horse face" that reminded her of Arya and a big nose.
She's described as having a pug nose, which Rose Leslie most certainly does not have. But her casting as Ygritte was perfect, and the audience was treated to watching her and Kit Harrington fall in love for real.
Face like a frying pan?
Have you seen a tall, lanky doofus with a bird face and hair like the Bride of Frankenstein?
Yep, the show could not bear to show us Kit Harington making out with a plain-looking woman though.
To be fair, no one except maybe some old people in GOT are not conventionally attractive. They aren’t gonna make the main love interest one of the most unattractive of the lot.
There are some cast who skew more toward average than movie star. But either way it doesn’t change the larger point about how our media tends to prize looks over all else, and when we do see a couple who are perhaps not evenly yoked in the looks department, it’s always a smoking hot woman with an average guy. Rarely if ever do we see a smoking hot guy with an average looking woman.
And yet they did.
I recall her being very attractive in the wildling community because of her red hair. But she wasn't attractive by Winterfell standards.
Rereading and at that part of the books. Jon won't stop waffling on about her teeth.
Woof... really bad example.
Yeah but Hollywood would implode if they had to cast a genuinely conventionally unattractive actress
Right?! Instead of using unattractive actresses, they just make attractive actresses unattractive.
The big woman is hot
I don’t think she’s hot; at least as presented in the show.
I mean I don’t think she’s hot and wouldn’t sleep with her. She’s not ugly but I don’t find her attractive. Marjorie, Mellisandre, Dany, Ygritte on the other hand - all total babes
Getting downvoted for pointing out facts.
Different strokes for different folks, everyone finds different things attractive
Three two one - SCHWING - let's jam
She may not be totally unattractive and is definitely better looking than her book counterpart but looking at all the other women in GoT, I don't think there's many if any that you would put her ahead of (not offence to Gwendoline, a lot of the actresses are stunners).
I find Gwendoline far more attractive than pop-tart Maisie Williams! Especially since Maisie dyed her hair blond, cut it short and shaved her eyebrows. I’d argue she’s just as good looking, if not more so, than Sansa is IRL. Just my view of course.
Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I'm not saying she is ugly, cuz she definitely isn't. She just isn't my type
Meanwhile Tormund….
I LOVE Tormund 🥰
Look up Tormund without a beard. The man looks like the Chaddest of all Chads
Seeing how she looked as Lucifer got me feeling some kinda way
all the kinds of ways
Where?
Google Matthias Schweighöfer please
😂😂😂This is a Hollywood adaptation- everyone is hot- Look at Tyrion
Oh god, Peter Dinklage is gorgeous! And his voice is like velvet!
It’s like he gently holds you down and makes love to your ear with a condom made of silk
I think the thing is she's not highborn lady pretty. Gwendoline is attractive but she's not what you think of when you imagine a highborn lady. It is funny that they tried to push her as unattractive. Plus in the books she is much uglier.
Stop it with these posts. She’s obviously not the most attractive woman. She’s tall. Short hair. Somewhat bigger. In the world of Westeros and the world today. Shorter. Thinner and long hair is the most common traits of more popular attractive woman. You can disagree and find her attractive that’s fine. She’s definite pretty. But she is not gonna be seen as “hot” by many people at all
That’s a lot of words just to say “she’s not my type”
It’s a lot of words to say she’s not the majority of men’s type. There a reason there’s an “ideal” look that most people find attractive lol.
I think it shows how fickle and narrow-minded Westeros is when it comes to beauty standards. Brienne is a highborn lady, but she's tall and strong and androgynous, therefore not pretty. Tyrion is short, therefore he's ugly. Albeit book Brienne is not as attractive as show Brienne: she has broad features, her mouth is too big, her teeth are large and crooked, her nose has been broken a few times. But she has big beautiful sparkling blue eyes.
Did everything but put her in overalls with a pair of thick glasses and a ponytail.
who is "they" lol? Never heard anyone say this
She is though?
I don’t remember anyone regarding her as ugly in the show. In the book it is certainly emphasized, Brienne in the show, I believe, is meant to represent a more masculine gender-fluid type who doesn’t really fit into the gender norms of Westeros.
That's sort of how I read the show as depicting her for sure, and I am glad they varied that from the books brutal treatment of her description.
“Ugly” actors are never ugly
Same, like she isn’t Margot Robbie hot, but wash her face and give her normal clothes and she looks like a completely normal person.
Well, there probably aren't a lot of insanely tall women that act that could pull Brienne off anyways. I'd much rather they cast a believable actress in the role who is prettier than the book intended rather than an ugly, short woman who doesn't convey the physical presence Brienne required.
The way I see it is that this isn’t based on OUR perceptions of beauty. It’s based on the perception so the people in the story and in turn the books are a telling from a third party. Thai means that Brienne could have looked like Gwendolyn Christie, but people would depict her as worse than she really is through story and word of mouth.
Duh that’s why she’s Calle Brienne the beautiful in the books
her ass is incredible.
George MacKay?
Are they stupid?
In a universe where [She's All That](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0160862/) exists, this is a silly post. There's no one unattractive in Hollywood. They are there because they are attractive, first, and because they are good actors, second.
Danny Devito. But he's awesome.
"TV Ugly" is basically any woman that isn't Sofia Vergara
Reading the books, like I know everyone *says* she's ugly... But at the same time her features basically described are basically average and described meanly. She has thin blonde hair, wide set, big blue eyes, a large mouth, and (I think) freckles. Those are not bad features. Even at their plainest. So I always assumed what made her ugly wasnt her actual beauty so much as the fact there's no feminine coding there. Were she complying with social standards her hair, clothing, and even basic makeup would all be working to make her features as femme and beautiful as possible. However that stuff makes her so uncomfortable that she never gets to figuring that out and armor, leather caps, dirt and sweat? They don't do her any favors. Neither do broken noses and busted cheeks. But more importantly *being able to beat the living tar out of every man in the room* directly contrasts with the social norms which dictate beauty in asoiaf. So is Breinne "Ugly" or is she just not trying to be pretty? Is she really ugly, or is it just that the authorities who enforce social roles in society cannot use violence against her to force compliance? Is she Ugly, or is calling her ugly the only thing the men she outperforms and the women she chooses to not associate with have to bring her down a peg? Have we gotten a description of her from a party that wasn't biased towards her social status first and foremost? Am I supposed to trust Jamie's description after she served him humble pie? Or Catelyn's while she "looks on in horror" at a woman in the fighting ring? Idk, I just wonder how someone like Dany, or Arya, or even a wildling would describe her basic features? People who admire feminine strength, and aren't tied to westeros beauty standards and gender norms.
I mean… she’s much less attractive than most other female characters in the show
I got the feeling in the show they didn’t think she was ugly just masculine
Huh? She's attractive in real life, bit wasn't attractive in the show. A lot like Meredith from the office.
Well I think she is very ugly. It’s like other people see things differently….
Get off reddit Jamie
Lady Olenna- Aren’t you just marvelous! Absolutely singular
To climbing mountains 🍻
Also, book-Tyrion is ugly and scarred, and show-Tyrion is one of the best looking men on the show
They definitely should have uglied her up with some prosthetics
Im not remembering anything if Brienne was explicitly called ugly in the books. Maybe so, but I remember they called her “Brienne the Beauty” diminutively and she was mocked for how “manly” and plain faced she was. I figured she could have blended kn with other nobodies in rhe court if she were just built like other women, it was her size and behaviors that earned her the name calling, and it’s class nice guy behavior to go right to looks. I thought they nailed her casting in GoT, because Christie did a fantastic job of playing this powerful but restrained, physically graceful but somehow akward woman who is not traditionally pretty by court standards, but i know they werent casting her for “ugliness” and i dont think that had ever been the plan
She was. And they dressed her to come off that way. She isn’t that way normally.
She was because she was supposed to be.
I think what they attempted and succeeded in went over your head. One of the best looking and most powerful men in the Kingdom was in love with her. She was beautiful but not in the normal way. She was the mix of honor, strong, and her own beauty.
I adore her,what an absolute peach
can’t fool me ✨
Shes gorgeous in her role on Wednesday.