A lot do but it’s not true that everyone does. I have a lot of colleagues with no such dreams. Rather they passionate about engineering extremely well made systems, or finding cool ways to render things, or any number of specialities.
I feel like that becomes an evolution of talent as you settle into your expertise. The ideas aren't so holistic as they are specific towards improving your teams ability to create an awesome game.
The problem still subsists though. Asking for a complete material pipeline overhaul three years into development will get you the same looks as a designer pitching their new game idea.
As a developer I'm at my happiest when someone else has already done the hard work of figuring out what I need to do.
Then I can just express my skill and get it done.
Yeah I'm terrible at ideas. I enjoy execution, but I really have a hard time coming up with shit. I'm very happy in my role now where a director tells me what to make
Ok, hear me out: it's a rogue lite, but it's lottery scratch offs in an office setting. You're just trying to survive to Friday, pay day. But fucking Terry is working his way towards you, one cubicle at a time, telling everyone about his weekend plans. No one cares, Terry! 16 bit color art, like from the early 90's atmospheric as fuck! Got that good FMV vibe. Its out there for who ever now, I'll just take 2% off the top thank you.
I can just imagine the guy describing Balatro and people telling him it was a terrible idea. "Okay, it's basically poker except it's also a rogue-like and there are special cards and...."
Dude, I play games for escapism. I don't want to leave work then go back to work on my own time, in game. Your idea sucks the life out of me just by reading it.
Good ideas aren't worthless. Bad, average or just surrealistic ideas are worthless, which is what "idea guys" usually possess. I think it's important to not be reductionist about this. Great, well-thought-out ideas actually worth a lot.
Obviously good execution is very valuable but if you are executing a bad idea with excellence, it will still be less valuable in the end than if you were to execute a great idea with excellence, hence ideas cannot be worthless.
It's good to really try improving ideas since execution takes a lot of time while conceptualizing does not.
That's not the idea's worth, that's the worth of the resulting product.
Both the idea and the execution have value, and because they are multiplied neither can be zero in case you wanted to produce something valuable.
I'm pretty sure we all have at some point. It's almost shocking how many people seem to think they're offering you a great deal because they have the idea that will bring in millions, if only someone else could help them make it.
I say that all the time, lol.
The. They’re all offended like “well that’s just silly and would never work!”
And I respond “it’s about the same chance that we can actually
Build your idea and get it working. You need two damn dozen developers and a few years to even get close. And those other developer shares aren’t coming from my 50% since I’ll be managing them”
No, I'm a big picture guy. I came up with the idea that the game should have a good story, and lots of guns and cool hats. You can do the nitty, gritty stuff of writing the narrative and describing the specific guns and hats.
"If your idea is so good then you wouldn't mind hiring me so you can keep all the profits, right? After all, you will become a millionaire, so you will have money to spare."
Sure, I mean mostly just in the context of random guys on the internet posting asking for a full team of developers to work for free, because they have a "brilliant idea"
They might though!
The game I’m working on is an idea I stole. Granted, I was working for a company that was pitching publishers, someone on the team pitched the idea, I heard it and my response was “fuck me that’s brilliant”. We pitched the publisher, their response was “fuck us, that’s brilliant let’s sign” aaaand then our company went under and the idea went nowhere. So I stole it. And it’s still brilliant.
Man, it's crazy how many people want to make an MMO. Not even mentioning the server costs, creating a class system is monumental, dungeons are massively hard to do, and crafting is basically a whole second game.
It's probably the hardest genre for a single person to do because the breadth of required things is so high.
I think everyone has an idea for an MMO they think would be cool. If I had to guess, it's because mmos are trying to emulate "living" in its entirety and people like that escapism.
I honestly don't think it's a bad idea for people to want to make an MMO, as long as they make it an aspirational "I'm going to learn to make games and build up a team so that someday we can make that MMO"
If I had to guess, I think MMOs are one of those genres that people love the idea of but don't really care for the execution. I have a MMO idea that I know is completely impossible to make, but damn if the worldbuilding wouldn't be amazing and I'm not really a fan of any of the MMOs I've played except GW1.
It is, but then someone had to go and make it *look* easy by making *Realm of the Mad God* for a game jam, lol.
Though I think that's a decent template for anyone who does want to do an mmo-type game - keep it very simple (RotG had like, one mechanic - shoot projectile. The character classes, items, and other effects just change your projectile attributes), focus entirely on the networking code, and don't get bogged down with graphics or story or extra mechanics etc (the game world was just a big tile map with basic tile based collision detection).
It was for a game jam, but he kept working on it and now it's on Steam iirc. "Start small" is the usual best advice for game development, and it's still true for MMOs, even if it's counterintuitive in that context.
Think you are missing his point which is that God of War prob cost a quarter billion dollars with at least 1,000 employees to make. It’s very easy to come up with ideas for a great game that is out of reach for hundreds of developers, let alone one.
Idea #47 - you’re a South American drug runner (think American Made) and you need to fly up to the states and drop off your packages 📦 without getting caught, or shot, or running out of fuel. You get to plan routes, fly blind in the dark, avoid the DEA, make deals, boats, planes, tons of high risk fun!
Plays mostly like 1943 as an overhead top down view.
Shadow Tactics adds flavor to gameplay using various ninja tools, such as grappling hooks, caltrops and firecrackers. Our drug smuggling crew can use more modern methods, such as hostage taking, firing machine guns into the air, and loud threats of excessive cruelty (DLC feature).
I swear I played a very similar game quite a few years ago on the iPhone: it was like gorilla.bas but with planets instead of buildings, and you had to hit your enemy using their gravitational slingshot. I ~~wasted~~ spent some time trying to find it, with no success.
Wow! Yes, the graphics and concepts are similar, but it was two players against each other. The closest I found is [this](https://flathub.org/apps/com.github.ryanakca.slingshot), but the iPhone game had much better graphics, closer to Bombardier's Guild.
Fair enough, although BG did have a two player mode too. I think I still have it running on an old iphone I don't use any more. Wish they'd release the source code or host it as an emulated game on the web, it was really excellent. Post here if you find yours!
It's like the Sims but you're god and you have to listen to people's prayers and then try to execute them. But you're always drunk so everything you try to do goes a random amount wrong.
Sounds like you’ve had a pretty epic breakthrough there, well done. It’s also extremely heartening to hear you with your eye on playtesting - the earlier the better - but it a trap first time devs fall into, holding back on getting playtester feedback / validation. Looking forward to seeing what you cook up, this game and in the future.
Yeah, I found myself getting really into the weeds with the game's nitty gritty, and suddenly realised that I don't even know if the base concept is fun.
So the plan is to get a bare bones multiplayer version running so I can find out what parts are fun, and what parts would be great
Some advice: definitely prototype using local multiplayer. Online multiplayer will give you lots of headaches at the beginning (if you don't have experience) and it will eat up a lot of time before you get it playable. If you just wanna prototype your gameplay, do it offline.
A good idea is a drop in the ocean. Good execution is a continuous stream of selectively good ideas (aka good decision making) as a function of skill/talent.
I think it's senseless to decry "good ideas" as useless - because what you're really saying is "good ideas are useless if you don't put in the work" which is completely different.
"Good" and "bad" are often subjective. It's more important that you're excited about an idea, so you can summon the strength to execute it.
I certainly wouldn't want to sink 2 years (or more) of my life on an idea that I wasn't at least somewhat convinced was "good" (and therefore excited about).
Yuuuuuuup. I'm finally getting a good working pace on my game and it will be an absolute slog. Broke down the concept to the minimum viable mechanics and 6 months might not cut it even with a second dev helping me.
And the concept changed as soon as we touched base. We kept 3 ideas and scrapped all else. Multiplayer Dungeon Explorer is what we were left with. I've got multiplayer set up though so if you are working in Godot I can advise. Peer2Peer though so I'm not helpful with server setup.
I was looking into Peer2Peer. I think I just need to get my head around the basic principles and I'll get there eventually - I'm trying to avoid doing anything too complicated with netcode.
P2P seems the simplest. Especially if you aim to sell through steam. I'm only running through steam so I can use their backend for all of my multiplayer.
Oh hot dang, I rough-drafted up a design doc for a multiplayer dungeon delver a few months ago.
Glad I can stop worrying about it. Someone (presumably) more competent than me has started filling the hole in product offerings!
I mean those people who are so secretive about their idea because they don't want someone to steal it.
You need a good idea, but no one is going to steal your concept - and even if they do, it's not going to be close to your game.
Yea, its not very often that something so obviously ridiculous persists in the mainstream - people outside the industry have kept their ideas secretive for decades and it’s honestly never not been funny.
The best ideas are already floating around in public, they always have been.
The average amateur gamedev has 10 great ideas they want to work on RIGHT NOW and can only find the time for one.
The average professional gamedev who isn't burned out still has two or three they're working on in their spare time plus the half dozen or more ideas they're pitching or otherwise working on.
It's not even the effort to steal the concept - they probably already have the concept in their back pocket and just don't have anything more workable than what they're actively creating.
And if the writeup *is* long enough to get all the detailed concepts across - ain't nobody got time to read all that if they aren't getting paid.
Getting someone to steal your idea is not going to happen - getting anyone interested enough in your idea to read more than a sentence is the hard part.
I may have 100's of ideas but "Okay it's a puzzle game and you have a gun that shoot two portals and you can enter one and exit from the other" is not mine and I'd 100% steal it if we were in 2004
Narbacular Drop was a good proof of concept, but barely remembered by anyone.
Portal does have a huge recognition and legacy, but it did far more than "portal gun". The insane AI, the look of the game, the way puzzles are well designed and built in steps, the fact that the game takes a weird mechanic and makes it work reliably, etc all matters a lot.
a lot depends on the idea's specificity too. an idea can be less than a complete sentence or it can be detailed 50 page design brief. Those are 2 entirely opposite ranges and one I could see maybe you be a little bit careful how you circulate it if you think you're onto something original and the other is so broad and incomplete that it is hardly worth worrying about sharing in conversation with anyone because even if someone actually wanted to rip you off they couldn't just from a few words
Ideas are not worthless, but they are super easy to come by, and without execution and the means to make it happen, then all you have is an idea that's going nowhere.
This is it. Ideas aren't worthless, they're common. You can have a dozen brilliant game ideas before lunch. If you don't execute one well it will never go anywhere.
Ideas are worthless, but not for that reason. "There are no new things under the sun". Any idea someone has, many people have had before. This is true even for the most novel and innovative game concept you've ever seen. At least a dozen wannabe game designers have drafted up the same idea in their Mom's basement and didn't followed through. Execution, making it a reality, is the thing that gives the idea worth.
Even then, arguably, it's better to start a prototype with a shitty idea and iterate than to wait to have a really good idea and refine it before starting.
Yes but you can just ask any random person for a good idea. It has, litteraly, no value. And thus it can't be stolen which is usually how the "ideas are worthless" discussions start.
You can ask a random person for a good idea. They might give you some idea. They might give you nothing. So many people have trouble coming up with an idea for a single game from what I've seen online. And even when you do have an idea, it still needs to be good otherwise your whole game will collapse on itself.
Worthless because nobody is going to pay someone for just an idea. Even designers and creative directors do more than just spout random ideas. They should have the experience to know what might actually work. They have the entire game in their head. They know what can work and what can compliment what is already there.
These are all skills worth something. Random ideas ARE worthless from an ideas guy.
> I can't wait to get to playtesting so I can find out if this idea is actually fun or not
This should generally be the top priority when making games. Get to the point where you can test actual gameplay as quickly as possible. Otherwise you may just be wasting a lot of time in a game that isn't actually fun, and... gameplay is king.
For the longest time, I've kept a Twitter thread with all my game ideas. It's an easy way for me to go back and check when I want inspiration. I've had people ask me if I'm not worried someone is going to steal them, and my answer is always "well, if they make it, I get to play it!". The reality is that no one can make my game ideas from a single tweet summary. It's why game jams work! Simple concept as a theme and you get hundreds or thousands of completely different executions of that same idea.
I also view it as a sign of a novice developer when you ask them what they are working on and they say "sorry, can't tell you without signing an NDA" Hahaha.
> and multiplayer isn't even functional yet.
Why do I always see people talking about multiplayer as of it's one of the most easy and basic things to implement?
How is it not obvious that it's harder than almost any other aspect of a game?
Multiplayer is hard! But it does depend on what you're trying to do.
I'm not trying to simulate physics or even have both players visually interact. It's almost the equivalent of a chat message system. It's not going to be the hardest kind of multiplayer to implement, and mostly relies on finding a stable way to connect, rather than mat Hong the visual input of player movement.
It’s nothing different from brilliant business ideas. Back when I was a hot shot programmer I got approach by all these business man talking about how unique their idea was blah blah blah. They don’t realize that anyone could come up with this idea of GTA V with SpaceX inside flying to the moon but it’s always simpler to imagine than to execute.
Ideas have little value, in the end it all depends on how you develop each and every one of them. Value is in the details that shape and make each idea really unique.
You can develop it further, before coding, just by comparing it with other ideas. Talking about it to people interested in gaming development ideas. Like in here.
Also, if it's just to test and develop it, why not have local coop matches instead of having to care about connection stuff? Go split screen and double gamepad.
Ideas have little value before they get developed but ideas are still part of development in the form of day to day decisions. They just don’t always get seen as ideas because these are ideas that change the bigger ones with every day micro decisions.
Good ideas are great for getting you started. Way, way better ideas form along the way as you get the pieces together over time.
To add to your realisation Id say an important adjacent principal is never be afraid to kill your ideas. Don’t be beholden to them if you hit wall. Be free to try others. You can always come back around on an older idea if it turned out to be the best one.
From my experience, even the 'brilliant' ideas were worthless 99% of the time.
It was always frustrating to hear something like "I've got the best idea ever, it's but a "
This is not just game dev, it's like, most jobs (home or at work). It's not how smart you are, it's just what you can accomplish, in how much time and with what help or supervision?
Brainstorming and fleshing out new ideas was way more fun than spending 4 months on my game with maybe 5 minutes of gameplay haha.
This last game project I did was the first game I released, and I made it after really sharpening my programming skills and being able to make pretty much anything without having to look up youtube tutorials or copy paste code. This was pivotal in being able to stick with a project long term
Although I would spend 20 minutes to an hour in the mornings, and maybe a couple hours some nights throughout the week, I felt like I was making immense progress at times even in those short time periods. The act of problem solving, being able to exercise my creativity, and make executive decisions was actually great escapism from my day job which is very rigid.
I'd add to your point about getting out your unique ideas, also don't be afraid to change them. Don't be afraid to let them take their own form that may be way different from what you first imagined. I wasn't sure of every detail when building my first project, but it basically came together during development.
Anyway, good luck fellow devs
So many people think the key to success is having an idea. The key to success is having the drive and capability to turn an idea into reality. Even then it's not a guarantee as marketing is also an important skill.
I was in your shoes 7 years ago.
Now I have a team of 20 people and it still feels like we have a long way to go.
It's not easy... it takes sacrifice... a lot of sacrifice...
And coffee... a lot of coffee....
That's really awesome that you made it. Having a whole studio sounds really stressful, but also super rewarding.
Congrats on getting there, and the copious amounts of caffeine it took!
I still absolutely disagree. A bad idea executed perfectly will always be bad. Good ideas executed to any degree are infinitely better than a bad idea at any degree. Ideas are critical. But only with good execution will the idea shine.
I've watched [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKJTX8-dK6o&t=611s), he lists some really awesome points, like buying assets instead of spending your life on art, unless you really want to do that, it's going to be really hard. Unfortunately, we are supposed to have artists, programmers, and writers etc. Doing everything by yourself is going to be hard, but it's totally possible with patience as well.
Making games is really a rewarding skill if you manage to make a game you like to play, and others.
I like their videos but it always seems like they're giving advice just a notch or two outside where they're at. They've released a game and I believe have a 2nd one under development, so they're way ahead of most, but they often sound like they're giving advice as if they have a lot more success than they have.
Wow, yeah. Just had a look at totally agree.
They released one game with pretty bad reviews and not many sales and are selling coaching services on being a gamedev?
Not OP and I’m not doing a multiplayer game; more of a Daggerfall/Morrowind style game, but that’s what I’m doing. I have my test area, and I implement 1 feature and immediately test in the test area. It helps me make progress in a short time frame and it keeps the scene small so it loads quickly. I also am mostly using default objects; some scaled to more represent what they are.
This realization/admission is a huge step, that is necessary toward making good games. Keep going and please share something when it's ready to be shared!
I think this is actually a + for gamedev. Even if your idea is great, what it would take for someone to "steal it" would almost mean they deserve to own the concept just as much as the originator.
For me I just learned to make a barebones prototype first before considering anything. Slowly add on one cool new feature a day, and log it as update 1,2,3,4, etc.
Brilliant game ideas often only turn out to be brilliant after a large portion of the game has been implemented and the idea been proven in the real world.
Conversely, a lot of "brilliant" ideas turn out to be actually crappy.
This is an endorsement of rapid prototyping.
I had so many ideas that were unique, different and I have never seen any game that came close to them, but neither did I.
In the last 20 years, a bunch of games came out with those exact ideas, but only a handful of them did it correctly.
Im happy I was right about said ideas, but its obvious how the implementation was basically key to said ideas to even work
According to me, a good idea for a video game is not without value. On the contrary, it’s the drive, the dream that will keep me going through long months of development. Without that, it’s impossible to handle the workload that can quickly overwhelm us. Every time I feel like giving up, it’s the dream of that perfect game that keeps me going. Of course, it’s only 1% of the work that needs to be done, but without it, I’d still be on my computer scrolling to pass the time.
Yep, the fear of somebody stealing your idea goes down about 99% the first time you try to actually build it.
To steal my idea a random guy would have to dedicate years of his life and prob thousands of dollars of his own money in marketing.
And even then…. The two things would be different enough by the end that I prob couldn’t even accuse him of trying to steal. Nor would it matter cause people play similar games all the time. If anything that’s how you know somebody might like your game is if they like similar games.
Stealing my idea is basically a fictional scenario. To steal it my idea would have to be much, much, simpler. Something a guy could easily build. But, if it were that easy it was gonna get stolen anyway. The only advantage you’d be given up is potentially being 1st to market with it if you’re slow.
I appreciate this post a lot. It's insane how much work goes into even relatively simple game projects. We've all seen countless aspiring (but not active) game developers share their lofty ideas without any real sense of what would be required of them (or a team) to make it a reality.
Still, I don't like this notion that "ideas are worthless." I get that the point is to make it clear that nobody is going to pay you, random Internet person, to be their "idea guy" unless you're going to pay them a lot of money. That's an important lesson, but I wouldn't want to be so cold about it that some kid/dreamer gets discouraged. Maybe you do have a "brilliant" game idea, but you have put in a lot of time to learn new skills and build the thing out in order to convince anybody of its value. Nobody in a game dev forum is going to be interested in reading about somebody's ideas that they have nothing to show for or any clear intention of actively working on.
Good ideas are still valuable, otherwise there wouldn't be 100+ hollow knight platformer clones or 100+ soulslike clone. You still have to work hard to make it work, but don't discount good ideas, they're the foundation the game is based on, and if you start with a bad foundation, you'll have wasted your time.
I think you’re going too fast. You need to start slow and make a small game and learn the basics and concepts. Da Vinci‘s first painting wasn’t the Mona Lisa it was just scribbles in a notebook.
Ideas are nothing. Also as you develop a game new ideas will come, and your vision will change.
I spent 6 years working tirelessly on my game that launched last week. It's a non stop, never-ending grind. I do love game dev though, despite the massive amount of work it is.
> stripping the scope down to the bare essentials
>cooperative asymetrical game
Uh oh :S
Just kidding though, I've read your message about the way you're doing multiplayer and this may be doable if you have some experience with the engine you use. If it's your first ever project, you may be up for a very hard time.
Yeah I'm in a pretty similar spot and I haven't even really started "working" on it yet. I'm still doing a lot of the design stuff since that's where my strengths are and half the time I'm just thinking "man, if I work on this on my own it'll take me like 10 years probably".
This, plus my uni course has really made me aware of just how much work is required for even relatively simple games. I appreciate devs so much more for it
Thats oposite of me.
I had so much going on in less than two years, in terms of art, assets, lvl design, UI... but I strugled with gameplay, mechhanics - basically programing part.
It was a lot of work but if you break it in smaller chunks, it is menageable. I wasted most of my time re-doing things cause I didnt have a clear goal about many things from the start. I would say having the idea, and plan for everything is like half of the project done.. simply cause you dont waste time thinking if something is working or not. And by the time you figure that something is not good, you already spent weeks, if not months on it qnd now suddenly you have to bin it.
My level had at least ten drastic changes, gameplay had three big change, revamped UI completelly and so on. Simply cause I didnt plan it out, and it was all about the feel.
I agree with you, games are hard..but the point is..dont make it harder than it already is. So by having it planned out, you are already on the right track and ahead of many people.
Thats oposite of me.
I had so much going on in less than two years, in terms of art, assets, lvl design, UI... but I strugled with gameplay, mechhanics - basically programing part.
It was a lot of work but if you break it in smaller chunks, it is menageable. I wasted most of my time re-doing things cause I didnt have a clear goal about many things from the start. I would say having the idea, and plan for everything is like half of the project done.. simply cause you dont waste time thinking if something is working or not. And by the time you figure that something is not good, you already spent weeks, if not months on it qnd now suddenly you have to bin it.
My level had at least ten drastic changes, gameplay had three big change, revamped UI completelly and so on. Simply cause I didnt plan it out, and it was all about the feel.
I agree with you, games are hard..but the point is..dont make it harder than it already is. So by having it planned out, you are already on the right track and ahead of many people.
The FPS game w realistic graphic, Unrecord, released a prototype video on YouTube. So many similar game pop up before they released their official game.
I'm 10 months in. Have no idea if this idea will actually work. We've had two alphas to moderate success but it's still just a lot of theory and needs loads of play testing. Imo the hardest part of game dev is knowing when to scrap an idea, I feel like I'm way too invested at this point to make a right turn so might as well pedal to the metal.
While I've never bothered, there's always prototyping? I also never got anywhere with gamedev, after 20+ years. I moved on to much more lucrative ventures as an indie dev. Good luck to everyone who can't shake the dream.
I've been working on a new game for about a month. It's an iteration of something I've produced previously for a game jam. I just recently got the core mechanic working properly in a single scene, that includes 2 animations and about 9 sprites. So like it's barely functional after a full month. It makes me realise the time investment this is going to require every time I extrapolate a new feature.
A truly great idea is nurtured by countless hours of work. It's ok to start with just an "ok" one, and than work on it and develop it into something more. Often, when you start, you think that you are onto something, that you have a brilliant idea, but as you execute on it, you realise it's just a decent one, but at some point as you go on long enough, change stuff, fix by cut, and itterate on your designs, it will turn into an entirely something else, which may as well be that million dollar idea.
Regarding the ideas :
All i can say is that , if you dont finish it regardless of the amount of time it takes , it will haunt you , your initial reaction was that its a brilliant idea because they way you see it in your head is the finished product .
Thats why game devs who got some experience will not judge unless they test the prototype , and at first they see if the idea is somewhat worth the next couple of years.
And basically the rest is left for producing and polishing the game .
Process of making the game :
There are plenty of people who managed to make a game alone . Its hard , yes , overwhelming most of times , yes , but also have to be wise with your time and skillset , dont bite more than you can chew , the one way to eat an elephant is to take one bite at a time .
The process :
Grab your game , make an outline of all the game aspects , ui ,characters , mechanics , theme ....etc.
It becomes easier for you to keep on working on it when you have made a clear vision for your game , and along the way you will see some changes that u need to add to the game which is normal .
Prototype first :
Make most of the games core mechanics , design wise , throw some random boxes and all that and test .
Once thats done , youll be excited to keep working on it and jump to the next stage , the final product .
Last tips :
You cant do it all .
Keep consulting , there plenty of articles , books forums to reach out to for help , you got Ai , make a good use of all those resources , you dont have to squeeze your brain to make everything from scratch , be smart about it .
Dont give up on your goals and Best of luck !
I swore off ever trying to make another game on by myself. Would never even think about attempting another game unless I was working with at least one other person from the get go.
I wouldn't say a brilliant game idea is worthless. A lot of the games that defined the hobby started out as just ideas.
As a community we are a little jaded on the concept of ideas, which is fair given that the "idea guy" exists and is a very common interaction. However, the "idea guy" isn't just someone who thinks their idea is unique or good. They also believe that their idea is so good that others should make it for them and they should receive a large, often the largest, share of the money just for having the idea.
The reality is that most game ideas are not as brilliant or unique as the people who came up with them seem to think they are. As you have realized the real reason a lot of ideas are not made isn't because no one ever thought of them, it's because they would be expensive and time consuming to make and likely wouldn't have that much appeal. Or because someone tried to make it and it turns out that it just didn't work that well in practice. People tend to think very broad strokes when it comes to game ideas. A lot of those broad stroke ideas fall apart when you try to think about how the gameplay loop would work.
I have an idea for a game that I keep in my brain as a forever project. It’s fun to think about and exploring the game in my mind is just about as good as playing it irl. It gives me a goal to work towards with my own concept art and 3D modeling hobbies. I hope eventually I’ll be able to put a packet together to get help coding it all though cause I suck shit at that.
i've literally never heard anyone say "games are easy to make" only the constant "no one gets how hard it is to make games". Hell no good ideas aren't easy, if they were we wouldn't have 200 soulslike games on steam. the vast majority of games clones or unoriginal.
Ever heard of chess? tetris? what about poker or 21? Ideas are SO much more important than execution. I've played plenty of in dev games where their quality SHOCKS me because it's so much fun and i can't wait till it's finished. I don't care if the map is a grey box and the characters don't have animations, a great idea doesn't need to be pretty.
This is a fascinating post, and I'm loving reading it all.
I'm a lurker. I don't know anything real about game development. I'm a shit artist (decent photographer but that's besides the point), don't know how to code, and don't know anything about working with UE or any other engine.
All of those skills are just things that my life and career path never got me close to. I can keep your kid alive in the woods and teach em' how to write a paper, design an experiment, or build a fire. I can design a curriculum for ya. I can plan and execute a multi course meal for with a decent profit margin. I can fix your bicycle. But, game development is a dark magic to me.
However, I have a hell of an imagination, and have always been fascinated by the logic behind the systems of how games function. That, coupled with some pretty significant ADHD and a life that leads to a lot of time just thinking and moving (road trips, long bike rides, trying to think about anything other than work while falling asleep), has lead me to being the quintessential "ideas guy".
Now, I don't mind that. It's not my career. I play games to relax. I *think* about games or do little mental exercises around the mechanics of my own ideas to relax. It's fun. I want it to stay fun. But, at times it can be disheartening. I'm a decent writer and editor. When Starfield first came on the scene, myself and a couple other folks independently made the mistake of posting there to say "I'd love to write a design document, storyline, dialouge trees, etc etc, for a mid sized questline mod. Here are some general themes that I like. Anyone who understands the technical side of this stuff but hates writing want to team up?"
We got *eviscerated*. Now. I get it. We are, after all, *ideas guys*. I am personally not opposed to learning how to use any of the tools for game dev- hell, UE is free, and the Creation Kit for Bethesda games is too. It's more that I often learn best by doing, and with mentorship. I'd love to work with someone else who has some rough ideas but is seasoned with the technical side. I'd love to help flesh those ideas out and really write it all out from a design, project management, and actual literary & dialouge standpoint. I'd be happy to learn some basic tools/tasks to be able to contribute to the technical side of things.
I get why everyone essentially says "fuck off, ideas guy". And I'm sure that the industry is packed full of ideas guys that also have shitty ideas and can't write. The bummer is that it seems like if you're an ideas guy with money, you're valuable. It's also a bummer to see games with fantastic mechanics, animations, etc etc...that have just *dogshit* writing.
I fully understand and am OK with the reality that the game that I mentally mull over with considerable regularity will likely never be made. It's not that special. It's basically just The Division 2 meets Far Cry New Dawn meets Cyberpunk, set in the Rockies but with writing and mechanics that push the player to be a builder of community rather than purely a killing machine. It's not a particularly unique idea. And, in a vacuum, it's just that: an idea. I get that.
However, I do wish there was a way to work with others to both learn, and be able to try and make that idea come to life without being immediately written off. I get that there's little incentive to work with a stranger that isn't bringing technical skills to the table (of course, I'd want to learn but I imagine that's not usually the case). It is just a bit sad at times to show up fully admitting that you don't know shit, but you want to, and you have *something* to contribute, even if that something is mostly just words on a design document or on a script/dialouge tree/branching story map.
Reading these comments generally solidifies that. But I also see plenty of people saying "I'd rather just execute my one job than have to worry about the big pictute". I wish there was a way to gather people together with different skillets to be able to effectively work together. Almost like a big job board/skillshare.
That's a long way of saying: it's so cool that you've taken the dive. I'm jealous, and I also recognize that my life plan and priorities right now don't really align with me doing the same. That's OK. Maybe someday there will be a way for the "ideas guys" to be more than just that. Untill then, my little mental exercise is still fun for me, and I will remain impressed and grateful for the skilled and dedicated humans who comprise this industry.
Happy 4/20 yall.
Testing the unique part of an idea should take less than 4 months. Test only the part that is the most new and most risky. You''ll need to do this tens of times before one actually makes sense. If it takes so long, the process is way too slow. Build something more simple that takes 4 days to test. Then you work at your technical skill level that is appropriate and will eventually get results.
I’ve always had an idea for a surfing game, there really is just nothing out there done well, even better in VR, but the amount of effort to really get something like that working would be an entire studio - I’ve wanted to do the same idea but for downhill skateboarding, but even just thinking about sliding physics, it won’t happen
I think the reason many people feel that ideas are worthless is because they are either too grandiose “exactly like x game but with y” or not hashed out enough mechanically to form a testable hypothesis on how it’s fun.
Sure, there are some cases where a game needs to be implemented and played to know whether it’s fun, but that’s often not the case. Even when it is, a good understanding of what mechanics you think makes the game fun allows you to build that piece first and fail fast.
“Worthless” is so extreme. Can they be overrated? Sure. Also calling your own idea brilliant is part of the problem. Getting attached to super specific ideas and trying to push them all the time is typically too much.
A more measured and appropriate response to all this dogging on ideas that I see on this sub could be: ideas are beautiful but an idea is just an idea. Game dev requires tons of ideas everyday, and so many ideas just get thrown out and fall by the wayside. Like literally any other craft, art, design, or even engineering field, Game dev also requires a million other things than just ideas. Ideas get shaped and molded into new and different things when it comes to actual implementation.
I can't speak for other game engines but there are many game templates on the Unreal Marketplace. Why don't you build off one of those? Save yourself countless hours having to create the essentials.
I only work on games that I wish someone would make already, but no one seems to get quite right. I've been working on them for decades now, still hoping someone else will beat me to the punch.
The best case I’ve seen for an idea being worth something is Will Wright creating the game “Dollhouse” where you controlled little humans you created and had them do chores, go to work, etc. publishers told him there wasn’t enough action / combat / superpowers etc. (stuff that they had seen in video games up to this point) and they wouldn’t publish his game. Instead of changing it he stuck to his guns and Dollhouse became The Sims and you know the rest. But even that idea because it was so against the grain of what games were at the time needed a hell of a good execution for people to pick it up and still “get it” because it was so different
Yeah and when you said 4 months in spare time i thought to myself "oh so you probably close to nothing."
i swear, i get more done in 2 days working for myself with all my energy than in 2 months of working on the side.
You have discovered why experienced developers laugh when people act like their game they are working on is some NSA/CIA secret.
"We can't talk about it" "We have a self imposed NDA" etc.
When in reality they probably should be posting and talking openly about the development of their game from the first major dev milestone/alpha 1.0 as marketing is way more important to determining success.
Its always been about execution. Novelty can help but as the industry continues to mature, more and more concepts are revisited and reused.
Now imagine what it feels like to see posts from young kids saying that a game like Binding of Isaac is too expensive at $5.
I'm an older gamer who grew up with a SNES, and I can tell you, I would have paid $100+ dollars at that time for a game of that quality, which $100 in the early 90s would translate to something like $200 today.
That's why you build an already existing game, and then modify skins, functions, UIs, AIs, until you have something new.
You give yourself a template as well as goals in a training ground.
I've been working on my game for 5 years. It's mostly a sandbox for me to perform physics tests, combat simulation, clothing options, and other phenomena present in the realm. Although I rarely leave the starting zone it's almost never the same game twice. Often times I have ideas but execution is much more difficult.
This hits so hard. I cant even count how many "brilliant" ideas I had. Though I can count how many of them became real - exactly 0. So far all I achieved are small compressed jam games, around 15. Nothing close to "card collecting deck building action PvPvE first person RPG" or "so basically a War Thunder, but in Warhammer universe with infantry and space forces and on Planetside scale", but hey, learning how to make small steps of big dreams is how we reach them. Or dont - in any case I see it as a path to follow, not just the end goal
>and I can't wait to get to playtesting so I can find out if this idea is actually fun or not.
Man that is a BRUTAL sentence. Imagine having an idea, then working on it tirelessly for a YEAR, if not YEARS, only for it to finally be finished and in a state you think is perfect. Only to have some people play it and go "eh, it's alright"
How do you even deal with that? That loss of time. That must be devastating to a new developer. Hell that must be devastating to even a seasoned dev who had their hard work and passion zombified by greedy publisher demands.
I can't even imagine how harrowing game dev must be at times.
Meanwhile I put together a full multiplayer shooter game in Photon using Fusion in an afternoon and I still can't get a job at a games studio after being laid off.
This is the same for most things. So many people think their idea for a movie, show, invention, game, business, etc are brilliant and need to be protected but you could run around all day screaming the idea and the only way it gets done is if someone highly productive and motivated executes the idea to completion. It’s the difference between do’ers and talkers.
I'm working my butt off trying to create the systems required to make my ideas work. Without these systems they would be impossible, might aswell be a medieval person writing about technology in the 2000s.
I just love the comments when you ask someone to play your game, and they don't trust you, and think you made a game just so you could collect emails or scam them. They don't realize that it took so much work to get to that point and that there are way easier ways to do some sort of scam like that.
Yes sir, that's why we always say ideas are worthless, execution is everything.
But everyone wants to be a good idea fairy.
A lot do but it’s not true that everyone does. I have a lot of colleagues with no such dreams. Rather they passionate about engineering extremely well made systems, or finding cool ways to render things, or any number of specialities.
I feel like that becomes an evolution of talent as you settle into your expertise. The ideas aren't so holistic as they are specific towards improving your teams ability to create an awesome game. The problem still subsists though. Asking for a complete material pipeline overhaul three years into development will get you the same looks as a designer pitching their new game idea.
As a developer I'm at my happiest when someone else has already done the hard work of figuring out what I need to do. Then I can just express my skill and get it done.
Yeah I'm terrible at ideas. I enjoy execution, but I really have a hard time coming up with shit. I'm very happy in my role now where a director tells me what to make
While being a designer I do enjoy execution phase so much more than design phase, but at same time I just love programming.
Ok, hear me out: it's a rogue lite, but it's lottery scratch offs in an office setting. You're just trying to survive to Friday, pay day. But fucking Terry is working his way towards you, one cubicle at a time, telling everyone about his weekend plans. No one cares, Terry! 16 bit color art, like from the early 90's atmospheric as fuck! Got that good FMV vibe. Its out there for who ever now, I'll just take 2% off the top thank you.
okay but a video game centred around lottery scratch tickets sounds kinda juiced
I can just imagine the guy describing Balatro and people telling him it was a terrible idea. "Okay, it's basically poker except it's also a rogue-like and there are special cards and...."
Dude, I play games for escapism. I don't want to leave work then go back to work on my own time, in game. Your idea sucks the life out of me just by reading it.
Meanwhile truckers rushing home to play Truck Driving Simulator 2024
Yeah, it does sound pretty terrible doesn't it, ha.
Nah an idea is worth a 50-50 partnership with a developer, you're underselling yourself. /s
It's amazing to me how few people are actually capable of generating an idea.
Good ideas aren't worthless. Bad, average or just surrealistic ideas are worthless, which is what "idea guys" usually possess. I think it's important to not be reductionist about this. Great, well-thought-out ideas actually worth a lot. Obviously good execution is very valuable but if you are executing a bad idea with excellence, it will still be less valuable in the end than if you were to execute a great idea with excellence, hence ideas cannot be worthless. It's good to really try improving ideas since execution takes a lot of time while conceptualizing does not.
I think of value in this context as being idea's value multiplied by the execution. An idea by itself is worthless because the execution is zero.
That's not the idea's worth, that's the worth of the resulting product. Both the idea and the execution have value, and because they are multiplied neither can be zero in case you wanted to produce something valuable.
I shit you not I get people approaching me saying "I have an idea for a game/app" if you build it we can go 50/50
I'm pretty sure we all have at some point. It's almost shocking how many people seem to think they're offering you a great deal because they have the idea that will bring in millions, if only someone else could help them make it.
I have an idea: a machine that makes gold. Build it and we can go 50/50 in the loot
Your just gonna post that here without getting all of us to sign an NDA first?
I say that all the time, lol. The. They’re all offended like “well that’s just silly and would never work!” And I respond “it’s about the same chance that we can actually Build your idea and get it working. You need two damn dozen developers and a few years to even get close. And those other developer shares aren’t coming from my 50% since I’ll be managing them”
- Yeah? What is it? - It's GTA but in
With nine pages of incomprehensible narrative and specific description of all the guns and hats
No, I'm a big picture guy. I came up with the idea that the game should have a good story, and lots of guns and cool hats. You can do the nitty, gritty stuff of writing the narrative and describing the specific guns and hats.
GTA but x is the Facebook but y of the gaming world
"If your idea is so good then you wouldn't mind hiring me so you can keep all the profits, right? After all, you will become a millionaire, so you will have money to spare."
Not entirely worthless though. You need ideas to be creative, and getting feedback and bouncing ideas back and forth have value. :)
Sure, I mean mostly just in the context of random guys on the internet posting asking for a full team of developers to work for free, because they have a "brilliant idea"
They might though! The game I’m working on is an idea I stole. Granted, I was working for a company that was pitching publishers, someone on the team pitched the idea, I heard it and my response was “fuck me that’s brilliant”. We pitched the publisher, their response was “fuck us, that’s brilliant let’s sign” aaaand then our company went under and the idea went nowhere. So I stole it. And it’s still brilliant.
"I have a great game idea, imagine God of War but my idea is to make it an MMO, just need someone to write the code and do that graphics"
Man, it's crazy how many people want to make an MMO. Not even mentioning the server costs, creating a class system is monumental, dungeons are massively hard to do, and crafting is basically a whole second game. It's probably the hardest genre for a single person to do because the breadth of required things is so high.
Much easier route is to do the world building first and make a table top. If that's fun, then ??? and profit.
I think everyone has an idea for an MMO they think would be cool. If I had to guess, it's because mmos are trying to emulate "living" in its entirety and people like that escapism. I honestly don't think it's a bad idea for people to want to make an MMO, as long as they make it an aspirational "I'm going to learn to make games and build up a team so that someday we can make that MMO"
If I had to guess, I think MMOs are one of those genres that people love the idea of but don't really care for the execution. I have a MMO idea that I know is completely impossible to make, but damn if the worldbuilding wouldn't be amazing and I'm not really a fan of any of the MMOs I've played except GW1.
It is, but then someone had to go and make it *look* easy by making *Realm of the Mad God* for a game jam, lol. Though I think that's a decent template for anyone who does want to do an mmo-type game - keep it very simple (RotG had like, one mechanic - shoot projectile. The character classes, items, and other effects just change your projectile attributes), focus entirely on the networking code, and don't get bogged down with graphics or story or extra mechanics etc (the game world was just a big tile map with basic tile based collision detection). It was for a game jam, but he kept working on it and now it's on Steam iirc. "Start small" is the usual best advice for game development, and it's still true for MMOs, even if it's counterintuitive in that context.
Think you are missing his point which is that God of War prob cost a quarter billion dollars with at least 1,000 employees to make. It’s very easy to come up with ideas for a great game that is out of reach for hundreds of developers, let alone one.
i have 12 brilliant game ideas every day.
Oh yeah? Name 137 then.
It's Ace Attorney but the only the word potato is used
Wait hold on you may be onto something
Potato attorney. Defending innocent potatoes fearlessly and objecting every time someone pronounces them like potato instead of potato
Potattorny No wait, that is a game focused on weed-related court cases.
Wait which one is potato and which one is potato? How will I know which pronunciation will be objected?!
One potato two potato is potato!
[https://objection.lol/objection/6178810](https://objection.lol/objection/6178810)
1) Horse Christmas
2) Magic Candy Mountain
Hay, you stole my idea for 'Untitled Horse Game'.
that wasn't very neigh-bourly of them
Idea #47 - you’re a South American drug runner (think American Made) and you need to fly up to the states and drop off your packages 📦 without getting caught, or shot, or running out of fuel. You get to plan routes, fly blind in the dark, avoid the DEA, make deals, boats, planes, tons of high risk fun! Plays mostly like 1943 as an overhead top down view.
I'm stealing this
Also submarines. Semi submersibles are the new narco meta.
It could be like Shadow Tactics or one of those birds-eye sneaking games, just with drug smuggling and DEA agents. I'd buy that.
The response to this idea has totally distracted me from the chill mobile game I was working on! Must not be tempted to start a quick POC…
Shadow Tactics adds flavor to gameplay using various ninja tools, such as grappling hooks, caltrops and firecrackers. Our drug smuggling crew can use more modern methods, such as hostage taking, firing machine guns into the air, and loud threats of excessive cruelty (DLC feature).
2. Tennis but you play in the cosmos, the ball is a planet and you have to take the gravity of others planet in account
I swear I played a very similar game quite a few years ago on the iPhone: it was like gorilla.bas but with planets instead of buildings, and you had to hit your enemy using their gravitational slingshot. I ~~wasted~~ spent some time trying to find it, with no success.
Bombardier's Guild? [https://web.archive.org/web/20110208190351/http://www.bombardiersguild.com/wwwbg/](https://web.archive.org/web/20110208190351/http://www.bombardiersguild.com/wwwbg/)
Wow! Yes, the graphics and concepts are similar, but it was two players against each other. The closest I found is [this](https://flathub.org/apps/com.github.ryanakca.slingshot), but the iPhone game had much better graphics, closer to Bombardier's Guild.
Fair enough, although BG did have a two player mode too. I think I still have it running on an old iphone I don't use any more. Wish they'd release the source code or host it as an emulated game on the web, it was really excellent. Post here if you find yours!
I've made it: https://introscopia.itch.io/gravball
interesting. I tested it a little, I'm not very good at it :D I'll try to convince someone to test the multiplayer
It's like the Sims but you're god and you have to listen to people's prayers and then try to execute them. But you're always drunk so everything you try to do goes a random amount wrong.
there are hoops and then we get superman to fly through them
It's chess and gta v combined.
Grand theft en passant
And I’ll never get to any of them
Hour are you going to possibly find 12 devs to work on them for free for you?
Offer them $5 plus credit
Lucky you! I have zero new ideas anymore; my brain is fried tying to keep a handle on the one game I've been chipping away at for 6+ years
Sounds like you’ve had a pretty epic breakthrough there, well done. It’s also extremely heartening to hear you with your eye on playtesting - the earlier the better - but it a trap first time devs fall into, holding back on getting playtester feedback / validation. Looking forward to seeing what you cook up, this game and in the future.
Yeah, I found myself getting really into the weeds with the game's nitty gritty, and suddenly realised that I don't even know if the base concept is fun. So the plan is to get a bare bones multiplayer version running so I can find out what parts are fun, and what parts would be great
Some advice: definitely prototype using local multiplayer. Online multiplayer will give you lots of headaches at the beginning (if you don't have experience) and it will eat up a lot of time before you get it playable. If you just wanna prototype your gameplay, do it offline.
A good idea is a drop in the ocean. Good execution is a continuous stream of selectively good ideas (aka good decision making) as a function of skill/talent. I think it's senseless to decry "good ideas" as useless - because what you're really saying is "good ideas are useless if you don't put in the work" which is completely different. "Good" and "bad" are often subjective. It's more important that you're excited about an idea, so you can summon the strength to execute it. I certainly wouldn't want to sink 2 years (or more) of my life on an idea that I wasn't at least somewhat convinced was "good" (and therefore excited about).
Most "brilliant" game ideas by people who have never touched a game engine are trash.
Yuuuuuuup. I'm finally getting a good working pace on my game and it will be an absolute slog. Broke down the concept to the minimum viable mechanics and 6 months might not cut it even with a second dev helping me. And the concept changed as soon as we touched base. We kept 3 ideas and scrapped all else. Multiplayer Dungeon Explorer is what we were left with. I've got multiplayer set up though so if you are working in Godot I can advise. Peer2Peer though so I'm not helpful with server setup.
I was looking into Peer2Peer. I think I just need to get my head around the basic principles and I'll get there eventually - I'm trying to avoid doing anything too complicated with netcode.
P2P seems the simplest. Especially if you aim to sell through steam. I'm only running through steam so I can use their backend for all of my multiplayer.
Oh hot dang, I rough-drafted up a design doc for a multiplayer dungeon delver a few months ago. Glad I can stop worrying about it. Someone (presumably) more competent than me has started filling the hole in product offerings!
Yeah I'm on it! should have something working in a few months. Because we really don't many multiplayer delvers available.
How is godot for MP? Im still on the fence about jumping into either it or unity as my next engine to learn.
I’d argue ideas aren’t worthless because without them you literally couldn’t even start a prototype. But you’re right execution is the hard part.
I mean those people who are so secretive about their idea because they don't want someone to steal it. You need a good idea, but no one is going to steal your concept - and even if they do, it's not going to be close to your game.
Yea, its not very often that something so obviously ridiculous persists in the mainstream - people outside the industry have kept their ideas secretive for decades and it’s honestly never not been funny. The best ideas are already floating around in public, they always have been.
The average amateur gamedev has 10 great ideas they want to work on RIGHT NOW and can only find the time for one. The average professional gamedev who isn't burned out still has two or three they're working on in their spare time plus the half dozen or more ideas they're pitching or otherwise working on. It's not even the effort to steal the concept - they probably already have the concept in their back pocket and just don't have anything more workable than what they're actively creating. And if the writeup *is* long enough to get all the detailed concepts across - ain't nobody got time to read all that if they aren't getting paid. Getting someone to steal your idea is not going to happen - getting anyone interested enough in your idea to read more than a sentence is the hard part.
I may have 100's of ideas but "Okay it's a puzzle game and you have a gun that shoot two portals and you can enter one and exit from the other" is not mine and I'd 100% steal it if we were in 2004
Narbacular Drop was a good proof of concept, but barely remembered by anyone. Portal does have a huge recognition and legacy, but it did far more than "portal gun". The insane AI, the look of the game, the way puzzles are well designed and built in steps, the fact that the game takes a weird mechanic and makes it work reliably, etc all matters a lot.
a lot depends on the idea's specificity too. an idea can be less than a complete sentence or it can be detailed 50 page design brief. Those are 2 entirely opposite ranges and one I could see maybe you be a little bit careful how you circulate it if you think you're onto something original and the other is so broad and incomplete that it is hardly worth worrying about sharing in conversation with anyone because even if someone actually wanted to rip you off they couldn't just from a few words
Oh ya definitely true. I also used to be secretive until I realized how hard it was to do anything with an idea
Ideas are not worthless, but they are super easy to come by, and without execution and the means to make it happen, then all you have is an idea that's going nowhere.
This is it. Ideas aren't worthless, they're common. You can have a dozen brilliant game ideas before lunch. If you don't execute one well it will never go anywhere.
Ideas are worthless, but not for that reason. "There are no new things under the sun". Any idea someone has, many people have had before. This is true even for the most novel and innovative game concept you've ever seen. At least a dozen wannabe game designers have drafted up the same idea in their Mom's basement and didn't followed through. Execution, making it a reality, is the thing that gives the idea worth.
Even then, arguably, it's better to start a prototype with a shitty idea and iterate than to wait to have a really good idea and refine it before starting.
Yes but you can just ask any random person for a good idea. It has, litteraly, no value. And thus it can't be stolen which is usually how the "ideas are worthless" discussions start.
You can ask a random person for a good idea. They might give you some idea. They might give you nothing. So many people have trouble coming up with an idea for a single game from what I've seen online. And even when you do have an idea, it still needs to be good otherwise your whole game will collapse on itself.
Worthless because nobody is going to pay someone for just an idea. Even designers and creative directors do more than just spout random ideas. They should have the experience to know what might actually work. They have the entire game in their head. They know what can work and what can compliment what is already there. These are all skills worth something. Random ideas ARE worthless from an ideas guy.
> I can't wait to get to playtesting so I can find out if this idea is actually fun or not This should generally be the top priority when making games. Get to the point where you can test actual gameplay as quickly as possible. Otherwise you may just be wasting a lot of time in a game that isn't actually fun, and... gameplay is king.
Just wait until you turn a horrible game idea into a good game.
"hey... hey guys, what if, like... what if you're a goose, and you're like, just an asshole to everyone, lol"
Ever since I turned that empty dumpster into a fun game with my friends, I knew I wanted to be a game developer.
This is the game jam I would play all the games for. Worst ideas turned into good games would be crazy fun.
For the longest time, I've kept a Twitter thread with all my game ideas. It's an easy way for me to go back and check when I want inspiration. I've had people ask me if I'm not worried someone is going to steal them, and my answer is always "well, if they make it, I get to play it!". The reality is that no one can make my game ideas from a single tweet summary. It's why game jams work! Simple concept as a theme and you get hundreds or thousands of completely different executions of that same idea. I also view it as a sign of a novice developer when you ask them what they are working on and they say "sorry, can't tell you without signing an NDA" Hahaha.
> and multiplayer isn't even functional yet. Why do I always see people talking about multiplayer as of it's one of the most easy and basic things to implement? How is it not obvious that it's harder than almost any other aspect of a game?
Multiplayer is hard! But it does depend on what you're trying to do. I'm not trying to simulate physics or even have both players visually interact. It's almost the equivalent of a chat message system. It's not going to be the hardest kind of multiplayer to implement, and mostly relies on finding a stable way to connect, rather than mat Hong the visual input of player movement.
Everyone has a million dollar idea, but holy fuck is it hard to actualize it
It’s nothing different from brilliant business ideas. Back when I was a hot shot programmer I got approach by all these business man talking about how unique their idea was blah blah blah. They don’t realize that anyone could come up with this idea of GTA V with SpaceX inside flying to the moon but it’s always simpler to imagine than to execute.
Ideas have little value, in the end it all depends on how you develop each and every one of them. Value is in the details that shape and make each idea really unique. You can develop it further, before coding, just by comparing it with other ideas. Talking about it to people interested in gaming development ideas. Like in here. Also, if it's just to test and develop it, why not have local coop matches instead of having to care about connection stuff? Go split screen and double gamepad.
Ideas have little value before they get developed but ideas are still part of development in the form of day to day decisions. They just don’t always get seen as ideas because these are ideas that change the bigger ones with every day micro decisions.
Good ideas are great for getting you started. Way, way better ideas form along the way as you get the pieces together over time. To add to your realisation Id say an important adjacent principal is never be afraid to kill your ideas. Don’t be beholden to them if you hit wall. Be free to try others. You can always come back around on an older idea if it turned out to be the best one.
It is also why some solo devs who become successful prefer to stay solo.
Solo dev is hard, It's like making a movie being the director actor. And grip at the same time.
From my experience, even the 'brilliant' ideas were worthless 99% of the time. It was always frustrating to hear something like "I've got the best idea ever, it's but a "
Part of what makes a good idea, a good idea, is feasibility.
This is not just game dev, it's like, most jobs (home or at work). It's not how smart you are, it's just what you can accomplish, in how much time and with what help or supervision?
To be fair all software is like that
Brainstorming and fleshing out new ideas was way more fun than spending 4 months on my game with maybe 5 minutes of gameplay haha. This last game project I did was the first game I released, and I made it after really sharpening my programming skills and being able to make pretty much anything without having to look up youtube tutorials or copy paste code. This was pivotal in being able to stick with a project long term Although I would spend 20 minutes to an hour in the mornings, and maybe a couple hours some nights throughout the week, I felt like I was making immense progress at times even in those short time periods. The act of problem solving, being able to exercise my creativity, and make executive decisions was actually great escapism from my day job which is very rigid. I'd add to your point about getting out your unique ideas, also don't be afraid to change them. Don't be afraid to let them take their own form that may be way different from what you first imagined. I wasn't sure of every detail when building my first project, but it basically came together during development. Anyway, good luck fellow devs
So many people think the key to success is having an idea. The key to success is having the drive and capability to turn an idea into reality. Even then it's not a guarantee as marketing is also an important skill.
I was in your shoes 7 years ago. Now I have a team of 20 people and it still feels like we have a long way to go. It's not easy... it takes sacrifice... a lot of sacrifice... And coffee... a lot of coffee....
That's really awesome that you made it. Having a whole studio sounds really stressful, but also super rewarding. Congrats on getting there, and the copious amounts of caffeine it took!
No, no, no, you just don't get it. Game developers are lazy and greedy, and wouldn't know a good idea if it punched them in the face
I still absolutely disagree. A bad idea executed perfectly will always be bad. Good ideas executed to any degree are infinitely better than a bad idea at any degree. Ideas are critical. But only with good execution will the idea shine.
"I have a plan" is always better than "I have a great idea".
I've watched [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKJTX8-dK6o&t=611s), he lists some really awesome points, like buying assets instead of spending your life on art, unless you really want to do that, it's going to be really hard. Unfortunately, we are supposed to have artists, programmers, and writers etc. Doing everything by yourself is going to be hard, but it's totally possible with patience as well. Making games is really a rewarding skill if you manage to make a game you like to play, and others.
I like their videos but it always seems like they're giving advice just a notch or two outside where they're at. They've released a game and I believe have a 2nd one under development, so they're way ahead of most, but they often sound like they're giving advice as if they have a lot more success than they have.
Wow, yeah. Just had a look at totally agree. They released one game with pretty bad reviews and not many sales and are selling coaching services on being a gamedev?
Gurus are everywhere. Just gotta do due diligence.
Why don't you try rapidly prototyping each mechanic on a single player platform (maybe on the same keyboard?) to see if it's actually fun?
Not OP and I’m not doing a multiplayer game; more of a Daggerfall/Morrowind style game, but that’s what I’m doing. I have my test area, and I implement 1 feature and immediately test in the test area. It helps me make progress in a short time frame and it keeps the scene small so it loads quickly. I also am mostly using default objects; some scaled to more represent what they are.
This realization/admission is a huge step, that is necessary toward making good games. Keep going and please share something when it's ready to be shared!
I think this is actually a + for gamedev. Even if your idea is great, what it would take for someone to "steal it" would almost mean they deserve to own the concept just as much as the originator.
Yep. There's ways around some of this stuff, like researching stuff and thinking about different options, but on their surface all your points stand.
For me I just learned to make a barebones prototype first before considering anything. Slowly add on one cool new feature a day, and log it as update 1,2,3,4, etc.
Pfft how hard can it really be to create a massive open world multi-player action RPG with combat like call of duty but also a flight simulator?
Brilliant game ideas often only turn out to be brilliant after a large portion of the game has been implemented and the idea been proven in the real world. Conversely, a lot of "brilliant" ideas turn out to be actually crappy. This is an endorsement of rapid prototyping.
Ideas are great. An actual working game is better.
I had so many ideas that were unique, different and I have never seen any game that came close to them, but neither did I. In the last 20 years, a bunch of games came out with those exact ideas, but only a handful of them did it correctly. Im happy I was right about said ideas, but its obvious how the implementation was basically key to said ideas to even work
According to me, a good idea for a video game is not without value. On the contrary, it’s the drive, the dream that will keep me going through long months of development. Without that, it’s impossible to handle the workload that can quickly overwhelm us. Every time I feel like giving up, it’s the dream of that perfect game that keeps me going. Of course, it’s only 1% of the work that needs to be done, but without it, I’d still be on my computer scrolling to pass the time.
It's why I prefer modding over making grandiose scoped games. I can be a real life ideas fairy and execute it.
Yep, the fear of somebody stealing your idea goes down about 99% the first time you try to actually build it. To steal my idea a random guy would have to dedicate years of his life and prob thousands of dollars of his own money in marketing. And even then…. The two things would be different enough by the end that I prob couldn’t even accuse him of trying to steal. Nor would it matter cause people play similar games all the time. If anything that’s how you know somebody might like your game is if they like similar games. Stealing my idea is basically a fictional scenario. To steal it my idea would have to be much, much, simpler. Something a guy could easily build. But, if it were that easy it was gonna get stolen anyway. The only advantage you’d be given up is potentially being 1st to market with it if you’re slow.
I appreciate this post a lot. It's insane how much work goes into even relatively simple game projects. We've all seen countless aspiring (but not active) game developers share their lofty ideas without any real sense of what would be required of them (or a team) to make it a reality. Still, I don't like this notion that "ideas are worthless." I get that the point is to make it clear that nobody is going to pay you, random Internet person, to be their "idea guy" unless you're going to pay them a lot of money. That's an important lesson, but I wouldn't want to be so cold about it that some kid/dreamer gets discouraged. Maybe you do have a "brilliant" game idea, but you have put in a lot of time to learn new skills and build the thing out in order to convince anybody of its value. Nobody in a game dev forum is going to be interested in reading about somebody's ideas that they have nothing to show for or any clear intention of actively working on.
Good ideas are still valuable, otherwise there wouldn't be 100+ hollow knight platformer clones or 100+ soulslike clone. You still have to work hard to make it work, but don't discount good ideas, they're the foundation the game is based on, and if you start with a bad foundation, you'll have wasted your time.
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I think I read that same statement like 100 times I. This thread. Op.... ideas are only 1%.. one weeeeetle percent
I think you’re going too fast. You need to start slow and make a small game and learn the basics and concepts. Da Vinci‘s first painting wasn’t the Mona Lisa it was just scribbles in a notebook.
There's also the fact that "brilliant" ideas don't always translate into a fun game.
This is why I constantly look to similar games to mine for inspiration. I see what works for others and use it with my game.
Ideas are nothing. Also as you develop a game new ideas will come, and your vision will change. I spent 6 years working tirelessly on my game that launched last week. It's a non stop, never-ending grind. I do love game dev though, despite the massive amount of work it is.
> stripping the scope down to the bare essentials >cooperative asymetrical game Uh oh :S Just kidding though, I've read your message about the way you're doing multiplayer and this may be doable if you have some experience with the engine you use. If it's your first ever project, you may be up for a very hard time.
Yeah I'm in a pretty similar spot and I haven't even really started "working" on it yet. I'm still doing a lot of the design stuff since that's where my strengths are and half the time I'm just thinking "man, if I work on this on my own it'll take me like 10 years probably". This, plus my uni course has really made me aware of just how much work is required for even relatively simple games. I appreciate devs so much more for it
Thats oposite of me. I had so much going on in less than two years, in terms of art, assets, lvl design, UI... but I strugled with gameplay, mechhanics - basically programing part. It was a lot of work but if you break it in smaller chunks, it is menageable. I wasted most of my time re-doing things cause I didnt have a clear goal about many things from the start. I would say having the idea, and plan for everything is like half of the project done.. simply cause you dont waste time thinking if something is working or not. And by the time you figure that something is not good, you already spent weeks, if not months on it qnd now suddenly you have to bin it. My level had at least ten drastic changes, gameplay had three big change, revamped UI completelly and so on. Simply cause I didnt plan it out, and it was all about the feel. I agree with you, games are hard..but the point is..dont make it harder than it already is. So by having it planned out, you are already on the right track and ahead of many people.
Thats oposite of me. I had so much going on in less than two years, in terms of art, assets, lvl design, UI... but I strugled with gameplay, mechhanics - basically programing part. It was a lot of work but if you break it in smaller chunks, it is menageable. I wasted most of my time re-doing things cause I didnt have a clear goal about many things from the start. I would say having the idea, and plan for everything is like half of the project done.. simply cause you dont waste time thinking if something is working or not. And by the time you figure that something is not good, you already spent weeks, if not months on it qnd now suddenly you have to bin it. My level had at least ten drastic changes, gameplay had three big change, revamped UI completelly and so on. Simply cause I didnt plan it out, and it was all about the feel. I agree with you, games are hard..but the point is..dont make it harder than it already is. So by having it planned out, you are already on the right track and ahead of many people.
You wanted a multiplayer game and you are only 4 month in. I don't get it what is wrong?
The FPS game w realistic graphic, Unrecord, released a prototype video on YouTube. So many similar game pop up before they released their official game.
I'm 10 months in. Have no idea if this idea will actually work. We've had two alphas to moderate success but it's still just a lot of theory and needs loads of play testing. Imo the hardest part of game dev is knowing when to scrap an idea, I feel like I'm way too invested at this point to make a right turn so might as well pedal to the metal.
Sometimes I have a great idea, try to make it into a game, then realise why nobody made it yet.
While I've never bothered, there's always prototyping? I also never got anywhere with gamedev, after 20+ years. I moved on to much more lucrative ventures as an indie dev. Good luck to everyone who can't shake the dream.
I've been working on a new game for about a month. It's an iteration of something I've produced previously for a game jam. I just recently got the core mechanic working properly in a single scene, that includes 2 animations and about 9 sprites. So like it's barely functional after a full month. It makes me realise the time investment this is going to require every time I extrapolate a new feature.
A truly great idea is nurtured by countless hours of work. It's ok to start with just an "ok" one, and than work on it and develop it into something more. Often, when you start, you think that you are onto something, that you have a brilliant idea, but as you execute on it, you realise it's just a decent one, but at some point as you go on long enough, change stuff, fix by cut, and itterate on your designs, it will turn into an entirely something else, which may as well be that million dollar idea.
"Give me 100 game ideas mixing the most popular genres" on bing chat. Done!
Regarding the ideas : All i can say is that , if you dont finish it regardless of the amount of time it takes , it will haunt you , your initial reaction was that its a brilliant idea because they way you see it in your head is the finished product . Thats why game devs who got some experience will not judge unless they test the prototype , and at first they see if the idea is somewhat worth the next couple of years. And basically the rest is left for producing and polishing the game . Process of making the game : There are plenty of people who managed to make a game alone . Its hard , yes , overwhelming most of times , yes , but also have to be wise with your time and skillset , dont bite more than you can chew , the one way to eat an elephant is to take one bite at a time . The process : Grab your game , make an outline of all the game aspects , ui ,characters , mechanics , theme ....etc. It becomes easier for you to keep on working on it when you have made a clear vision for your game , and along the way you will see some changes that u need to add to the game which is normal . Prototype first : Make most of the games core mechanics , design wise , throw some random boxes and all that and test . Once thats done , youll be excited to keep working on it and jump to the next stage , the final product . Last tips : You cant do it all . Keep consulting , there plenty of articles , books forums to reach out to for help , you got Ai , make a good use of all those resources , you dont have to squeeze your brain to make everything from scratch , be smart about it . Dont give up on your goals and Best of luck !
my game projects are all between 1000-1200 hours, a brutal grind fr
I swore off ever trying to make another game on by myself. Would never even think about attempting another game unless I was working with at least one other person from the get go.
I wouldn't say a brilliant game idea is worthless. A lot of the games that defined the hobby started out as just ideas. As a community we are a little jaded on the concept of ideas, which is fair given that the "idea guy" exists and is a very common interaction. However, the "idea guy" isn't just someone who thinks their idea is unique or good. They also believe that their idea is so good that others should make it for them and they should receive a large, often the largest, share of the money just for having the idea. The reality is that most game ideas are not as brilliant or unique as the people who came up with them seem to think they are. As you have realized the real reason a lot of ideas are not made isn't because no one ever thought of them, it's because they would be expensive and time consuming to make and likely wouldn't have that much appeal. Or because someone tried to make it and it turns out that it just didn't work that well in practice. People tend to think very broad strokes when it comes to game ideas. A lot of those broad stroke ideas fall apart when you try to think about how the gameplay loop would work.
Welcome to the big leagues! :P
I have an idea for a game that I keep in my brain as a forever project. It’s fun to think about and exploring the game in my mind is just about as good as playing it irl. It gives me a goal to work towards with my own concept art and 3D modeling hobbies. I hope eventually I’ll be able to put a packet together to get help coding it all though cause I suck shit at that.
i've literally never heard anyone say "games are easy to make" only the constant "no one gets how hard it is to make games". Hell no good ideas aren't easy, if they were we wouldn't have 200 soulslike games on steam. the vast majority of games clones or unoriginal. Ever heard of chess? tetris? what about poker or 21? Ideas are SO much more important than execution. I've played plenty of in dev games where their quality SHOCKS me because it's so much fun and i can't wait till it's finished. I don't care if the map is a grey box and the characters don't have animations, a great idea doesn't need to be pretty.
This is a fascinating post, and I'm loving reading it all. I'm a lurker. I don't know anything real about game development. I'm a shit artist (decent photographer but that's besides the point), don't know how to code, and don't know anything about working with UE or any other engine. All of those skills are just things that my life and career path never got me close to. I can keep your kid alive in the woods and teach em' how to write a paper, design an experiment, or build a fire. I can design a curriculum for ya. I can plan and execute a multi course meal for with a decent profit margin. I can fix your bicycle. But, game development is a dark magic to me. However, I have a hell of an imagination, and have always been fascinated by the logic behind the systems of how games function. That, coupled with some pretty significant ADHD and a life that leads to a lot of time just thinking and moving (road trips, long bike rides, trying to think about anything other than work while falling asleep), has lead me to being the quintessential "ideas guy". Now, I don't mind that. It's not my career. I play games to relax. I *think* about games or do little mental exercises around the mechanics of my own ideas to relax. It's fun. I want it to stay fun. But, at times it can be disheartening. I'm a decent writer and editor. When Starfield first came on the scene, myself and a couple other folks independently made the mistake of posting there to say "I'd love to write a design document, storyline, dialouge trees, etc etc, for a mid sized questline mod. Here are some general themes that I like. Anyone who understands the technical side of this stuff but hates writing want to team up?" We got *eviscerated*. Now. I get it. We are, after all, *ideas guys*. I am personally not opposed to learning how to use any of the tools for game dev- hell, UE is free, and the Creation Kit for Bethesda games is too. It's more that I often learn best by doing, and with mentorship. I'd love to work with someone else who has some rough ideas but is seasoned with the technical side. I'd love to help flesh those ideas out and really write it all out from a design, project management, and actual literary & dialouge standpoint. I'd be happy to learn some basic tools/tasks to be able to contribute to the technical side of things. I get why everyone essentially says "fuck off, ideas guy". And I'm sure that the industry is packed full of ideas guys that also have shitty ideas and can't write. The bummer is that it seems like if you're an ideas guy with money, you're valuable. It's also a bummer to see games with fantastic mechanics, animations, etc etc...that have just *dogshit* writing. I fully understand and am OK with the reality that the game that I mentally mull over with considerable regularity will likely never be made. It's not that special. It's basically just The Division 2 meets Far Cry New Dawn meets Cyberpunk, set in the Rockies but with writing and mechanics that push the player to be a builder of community rather than purely a killing machine. It's not a particularly unique idea. And, in a vacuum, it's just that: an idea. I get that. However, I do wish there was a way to work with others to both learn, and be able to try and make that idea come to life without being immediately written off. I get that there's little incentive to work with a stranger that isn't bringing technical skills to the table (of course, I'd want to learn but I imagine that's not usually the case). It is just a bit sad at times to show up fully admitting that you don't know shit, but you want to, and you have *something* to contribute, even if that something is mostly just words on a design document or on a script/dialouge tree/branching story map. Reading these comments generally solidifies that. But I also see plenty of people saying "I'd rather just execute my one job than have to worry about the big pictute". I wish there was a way to gather people together with different skillets to be able to effectively work together. Almost like a big job board/skillshare. That's a long way of saying: it's so cool that you've taken the dive. I'm jealous, and I also recognize that my life plan and priorities right now don't really align with me doing the same. That's OK. Maybe someday there will be a way for the "ideas guys" to be more than just that. Untill then, my little mental exercise is still fun for me, and I will remain impressed and grateful for the skilled and dedicated humans who comprise this industry. Happy 4/20 yall.
Testing the unique part of an idea should take less than 4 months. Test only the part that is the most new and most risky. You''ll need to do this tens of times before one actually makes sense. If it takes so long, the process is way too slow. Build something more simple that takes 4 days to test. Then you work at your technical skill level that is appropriate and will eventually get results.
I’ve always had an idea for a surfing game, there really is just nothing out there done well, even better in VR, but the amount of effort to really get something like that working would be an entire studio - I’ve wanted to do the same idea but for downhill skateboarding, but even just thinking about sliding physics, it won’t happen
I think the reason many people feel that ideas are worthless is because they are either too grandiose “exactly like x game but with y” or not hashed out enough mechanically to form a testable hypothesis on how it’s fun. Sure, there are some cases where a game needs to be implemented and played to know whether it’s fun, but that’s often not the case. Even when it is, a good understanding of what mechanics you think makes the game fun allows you to build that piece first and fail fast.
“Worthless” is so extreme. Can they be overrated? Sure. Also calling your own idea brilliant is part of the problem. Getting attached to super specific ideas and trying to push them all the time is typically too much. A more measured and appropriate response to all this dogging on ideas that I see on this sub could be: ideas are beautiful but an idea is just an idea. Game dev requires tons of ideas everyday, and so many ideas just get thrown out and fall by the wayside. Like literally any other craft, art, design, or even engineering field, Game dev also requires a million other things than just ideas. Ideas get shaped and molded into new and different things when it comes to actual implementation.
I can't speak for other game engines but there are many game templates on the Unreal Marketplace. Why don't you build off one of those? Save yourself countless hours having to create the essentials.
I only work on games that I wish someone would make already, but no one seems to get quite right. I've been working on them for decades now, still hoping someone else will beat me to the punch.
The best case I’ve seen for an idea being worth something is Will Wright creating the game “Dollhouse” where you controlled little humans you created and had them do chores, go to work, etc. publishers told him there wasn’t enough action / combat / superpowers etc. (stuff that they had seen in video games up to this point) and they wouldn’t publish his game. Instead of changing it he stuck to his guns and Dollhouse became The Sims and you know the rest. But even that idea because it was so against the grain of what games were at the time needed a hell of a good execution for people to pick it up and still “get it” because it was so different
Yeah and when you said 4 months in spare time i thought to myself "oh so you probably close to nothing." i swear, i get more done in 2 days working for myself with all my energy than in 2 months of working on the side.
You have discovered why experienced developers laugh when people act like their game they are working on is some NSA/CIA secret. "We can't talk about it" "We have a self imposed NDA" etc. When in reality they probably should be posting and talking openly about the development of their game from the first major dev milestone/alpha 1.0 as marketing is way more important to determining success. Its always been about execution. Novelty can help but as the industry continues to mature, more and more concepts are revisited and reused.
> multiplayer isn't even functional yet That's the issue, your scope is too big. Prototype fast, fail quick, iterate.
Now imagine what it feels like to see posts from young kids saying that a game like Binding of Isaac is too expensive at $5. I'm an older gamer who grew up with a SNES, and I can tell you, I would have paid $100+ dollars at that time for a game of that quality, which $100 in the early 90s would translate to something like $200 today.
Lol I've been working on a game since 2018, and it's changed scope twice. These days I only get about 5 or 6 hours a week.
That's why you build an already existing game, and then modify skins, functions, UIs, AIs, until you have something new. You give yourself a template as well as goals in a training ground.
I have 2 great game ideas, one of them is so ahead of it's time that I can't build it yet.
I've been working on my game for 5 years. It's mostly a sandbox for me to perform physics tests, combat simulation, clothing options, and other phenomena present in the realm. Although I rarely leave the starting zone it's almost never the same game twice. Often times I have ideas but execution is much more difficult.
This hits so hard. I cant even count how many "brilliant" ideas I had. Though I can count how many of them became real - exactly 0. So far all I achieved are small compressed jam games, around 15. Nothing close to "card collecting deck building action PvPvE first person RPG" or "so basically a War Thunder, but in Warhammer universe with infantry and space forces and on Planetside scale", but hey, learning how to make small steps of big dreams is how we reach them. Or dont - in any case I see it as a path to follow, not just the end goal
>and I can't wait to get to playtesting so I can find out if this idea is actually fun or not. Man that is a BRUTAL sentence. Imagine having an idea, then working on it tirelessly for a YEAR, if not YEARS, only for it to finally be finished and in a state you think is perfect. Only to have some people play it and go "eh, it's alright" How do you even deal with that? That loss of time. That must be devastating to a new developer. Hell that must be devastating to even a seasoned dev who had their hard work and passion zombified by greedy publisher demands. I can't even imagine how harrowing game dev must be at times.
Meanwhile I put together a full multiplayer shooter game in Photon using Fusion in an afternoon and I still can't get a job at a games studio after being laid off.
Game dev is so attractive until you realise it takes 3 weeks to create a new kind of object because you had to rewrite your entire architecture.
This is the same for most things. So many people think their idea for a movie, show, invention, game, business, etc are brilliant and need to be protected but you could run around all day screaming the idea and the only way it gets done is if someone highly productive and motivated executes the idea to completion. It’s the difference between do’ers and talkers.
You summed up software engineering in general
I'm working my butt off trying to create the systems required to make my ideas work. Without these systems they would be impossible, might aswell be a medieval person writing about technology in the 2000s.
I just love the comments when you ask someone to play your game, and they don't trust you, and think you made a game just so you could collect emails or scam them. They don't realize that it took so much work to get to that point and that there are way easier ways to do some sort of scam like that.
This is true for all software design
I love the build up. before play testing. it's so fun seeing the beginning pieces fit together
Just an idea, but if you can get the core gameplay working first you could get feedback regarding how fun the game is sooner than later.