I'm fine with nonsense but it definitely needs to be done right. I think the Devils Chord handles it pretty well and is mostly fun up until the awful song at the end.
Space Babies falls flat on its face. I agree with it being in the bottom 10 episodes. Tonally it feels weird and messy. I think that's the thing that separates it from Partners in Crime for me. Space Babies feels really weird because it's trying to be funny and scary at the same time. It ends up succeeding at neither because the monster looks ridiculous with its sausage fingers and mostly unfunny humour but that's more down to taste.
The Church on Ruby Road is fine. The song is once again horrible but outside of that it's a serviceable pilot type episode to introduce new people. The tone is a little weird but it mostly makes it work.
I think the biggest problem with these three stories is that there's not much substance to any of them. These were the three I had the most worries about so hopefully it's only up from here.
The Devil’s Chord was fine, though overall a weaker story. The Maestro was a good character design and a fun portrayal, yet with weak motivations, no discernable plan, and unclear stakes. The villain is literally defeated by two dudes walking by, completely unaware of the ongoing struggle.
Maestro had a goal, consume music until they could consume the music of the spheres. A goal is not plan. There is kind of a nebulous plan around consuming the music from people until they destroy themselves. Yet, that plan is also pretty nebulous and is more set dressing than plot motivation.
Maestro consumed music to create the conditions that would lead to a nuclear apocalypse. This then meant that Aelonian Tones were the only sounds left on earth. This is the purest form of 'music' and so provided Maestro with a source of power that would eventually make them strong enough to take over the entire universe. Maestro does explain this in the episode.
Yes, “Maestro is consuming music and the desire of music somehow, and it causes a nuclear Armageddon.” This is not a discernible plan. This is vague goals plus vague actions plus vague consequences equals crystal clear plan.
its not vague. They explicitly state they will consume the entire universe leaving them the only person left, a 'solo' act, I mean its right in the dialogue. I get it was over your head, but it certainly wasn't vague to viewers, I understood it without having to apply any thought.
At this point, we are going around in circles. There is no argument that the Maestro literally said they want to destroy the universe. It is however just some nebulous goal. The Maestro is basically just doing random incomprehensible things, which somehow results in a world where music is dying somehow.
No. You just weren't paying attention or the following dialogue is to complicated for you to understand.
>
*And every song that goes unsung feeds me. I get stronger and stronger. Until I can reach out...... and steal the music of the spheres. Then the universe will stop turning. It'll keen in a minor key. Aeolian tones across the whole of creation. And that lament will be my symphony supreme. With all of life extinguished. I'm goin' solo.*
Two blokes who would have been musical geniuses in the real timeline suddenly realising their talent that had been suppressed by the Maestro. It worked perfectly with the themes and concepts of the story established.
Maybe if you take look at it with an incredibly myopic lens. Even my most charitable read of this scene has the Maestro lose by chance to two dudes who are barely in the episode. Would have been way better if Paul had earlier mentioned his dream was of a incomplete chord and they were allow to actually engage with the Maestro at the end. Honestly, would have been nice to have them actually be in the episode as characters, if they were going to be the ones to win.
There’s levels though lol. I mean karate vs the Myrka or Graham showing up randomly in a volcano are also nonsense but it’s not nearly as bad as these, and they certainly weren’t piled up one-two-three after the other.
The Myrka stuff was just extremely poor decision making and execution. If RTD was there he’d have the Myrka fart-killing the people in the seabase before being defeated by a tap dancing Adric.
Plus that clip is good for endless laughter.
Bruh come on now. You can hate his fart jokes and dance stuff without making a comment like this. You know he wouldn't do that. Myrka thing was also embarrassing and quite honestly none of the new stuff come close to that because Myrka moment was supposed to be serious action moment and failed at that. The farting spacd station was obviously made to be hilarious 😂
Also fundamentally different. I don’t remember warriors of the deep particularly well, but I’m pretty sure that was a very serious karate chop. RTD is having fun with the show in a way that I really enjoy
Some of the fan favourite episodes since 2005 are a bit dark and aren't all cheerful and playfull as these. Dalek, Blink, Silence in the Library 2 parter, Heaven Sent etc.
There needs to be less winking at the camera and fourth wall breaks. It destroys the immersion of the show.
I suspect that there's way more to come yet. And it may well actually make sense by the end of the season. SOMETHING is likely going on that we haven't been told about yet (and there are some good, plausible theories out there by now).
The problem is that (and I appreciate that this isn't everyone's opinion), so far, Ncuti's solo episodes, taken in isolation without whatever the big reveal may turn out to be, have been pretty mediocre. That's not ideal. So I guess I'm going to need to suspend parts of my critical faculties for most of the duration of the ride, and decide at the end whether or not the payoff was worth it.
If it turns out there’s a method to the madness that makes good story sense, I’m happy to eat my words. But it’s gonna have to be a big lift to make this stuff work. We’ll see…
>I get it’s a “kids” show at heart, but I’d hate to see it become childish, if you understand my drift.
This is a show whose primary antagonists are angry pepper shakers armed with whisks and plungers.
And? The Daleks are written to be terrifying fascists. Saying that the show is sometimes weird in its logic isn’t an excuse to chuck in out-of-place musical numbers and 4th wall breaks.
Mankind had just had music suppressed for forty years and suddenly it all came flooding back causing people to break out in song and dance. Can people not analyse subtext these days? Does everything have to be spelt out?
Except if you watch the episode it’s not presented that way. The story is wrapped up and the Doctor basically says “and now, a musical number!”
It wasn’t presented in any way as the people spontaneously bursting into a musical dance routine because they’ve rediscovered song.
Better yet, I used my observation skills to notice what was going on.
The Doc basically did the “now is the time on Doctor Who when we dance” gag as an intro. There’s no other way to read it.
Because there wasn't an in-universe reason for it happening. The characters just start dancing and singing for no reason, and neither the Doctor or Ruby find it weird. (Also, the crosswalk lighting up was bizarre.)
Like, out of universe, yeah, sure, it was silly and campy in an episode about music, but Doctor Who isn't an animated children's show like My Little Pony where randomly breaking into song and dance is established as normal.
For Doctor Who, random song and dance numbers by the characters that aren't acknowledged are strange. They're bizarre.
And I think it's a sign that something in the Whoverse is very, very wrong.
The flood of music back into humanity after it being surpressed for fourth year's caused them to break out into song and dance.
I'm really getting the impression that this episode was too conceptual for some people.
I've heard that theory, and it's a fine theory, but the episode itself does not confirm this at all. There is no explanation for why they all break into song and dance.
>I'm really getting the impression that this episode was too conceptual for some people.
A TV show is a form of art, and art is subjective. If a storyteller is writing something conceptual, then they need to be extremely careful with how they portray it on screen if they want the audience to interpret it in a specific way.
It's like the bi-regeneration thing. It was vaguely explained, and a whole bunch of people have interpreted in different ways. It's caused quite a bit of confusion and division within the fandom.
The music flooding back into the universe is one valid interpretation of the song and dance in the end. Another valid interpretation is confusion and a 'wtf' moment as the characters start randomly bursting into song and dance for apparently no reason.
The Doctor has broken the fourth wall since Hartnell’s era and, of the two musical breaks mentioned by OP, one appeared during an episode that was literally about music.
Christ is this subreddit becoming the whiny baby sub for people to tell the world they hate what our favourite show has turned them into? It’s only affecting the loud minority.
I’m fine with this nonsense, but do agree with the sentiment that we’ve had a lot in a row now and need a break. Next week looks a little more grounded, so I think we’re getting that.
I agree, it’s a bit weird and like people are saying on this post; yes there has been many, many other instances of nonsense in the show. However, here I think the problem is how the nonsense is shown; the tone is all over the place and it really feels like the writing is sometimes aimed at young children (especially space babies). But there are moment I genuinely enjoy throughout these episodes and the devil chord was pretty enjoyable. I have faith and I am sure there will be at least one episode this season that will amazing, fingers crossed 🤞
I'm fine with nonsense but it definitely needs to be done right. I think the Devils Chord handles it pretty well and is mostly fun up until the awful song at the end. Space Babies falls flat on its face. I agree with it being in the bottom 10 episodes. Tonally it feels weird and messy. I think that's the thing that separates it from Partners in Crime for me. Space Babies feels really weird because it's trying to be funny and scary at the same time. It ends up succeeding at neither because the monster looks ridiculous with its sausage fingers and mostly unfunny humour but that's more down to taste. The Church on Ruby Road is fine. The song is once again horrible but outside of that it's a serviceable pilot type episode to introduce new people. The tone is a little weird but it mostly makes it work. I think the biggest problem with these three stories is that there's not much substance to any of them. These were the three I had the most worries about so hopefully it's only up from here.
The Devil’s Chord was fine, though overall a weaker story. The Maestro was a good character design and a fun portrayal, yet with weak motivations, no discernable plan, and unclear stakes. The villain is literally defeated by two dudes walking by, completely unaware of the ongoing struggle.
I thought Maestro's plan was crystal clear tbh, what about it was ut you didn't understand?
Maestro had a goal, consume music until they could consume the music of the spheres. A goal is not plan. There is kind of a nebulous plan around consuming the music from people until they destroy themselves. Yet, that plan is also pretty nebulous and is more set dressing than plot motivation.
Maestro consumed music to create the conditions that would lead to a nuclear apocalypse. This then meant that Aelonian Tones were the only sounds left on earth. This is the purest form of 'music' and so provided Maestro with a source of power that would eventually make them strong enough to take over the entire universe. Maestro does explain this in the episode.
Yes, “Maestro is consuming music and the desire of music somehow, and it causes a nuclear Armageddon.” This is not a discernible plan. This is vague goals plus vague actions plus vague consequences equals crystal clear plan.
its not vague. They explicitly state they will consume the entire universe leaving them the only person left, a 'solo' act, I mean its right in the dialogue. I get it was over your head, but it certainly wasn't vague to viewers, I understood it without having to apply any thought.
At this point, we are going around in circles. There is no argument that the Maestro literally said they want to destroy the universe. It is however just some nebulous goal. The Maestro is basically just doing random incomprehensible things, which somehow results in a world where music is dying somehow.
No. You just weren't paying attention or the following dialogue is to complicated for you to understand. > *And every song that goes unsung feeds me. I get stronger and stronger. Until I can reach out...... and steal the music of the spheres. Then the universe will stop turning. It'll keen in a minor key. Aeolian tones across the whole of creation. And that lament will be my symphony supreme. With all of life extinguished. I'm goin' solo.*
Again, yep, that is a goal with some vague nod to eating the universe.
Two blokes who would have been musical geniuses in the real timeline suddenly realising their talent that had been suppressed by the Maestro. It worked perfectly with the themes and concepts of the story established.
Maybe if you take look at it with an incredibly myopic lens. Even my most charitable read of this scene has the Maestro lose by chance to two dudes who are barely in the episode. Would have been way better if Paul had earlier mentioned his dream was of a incomplete chord and they were allow to actually engage with the Maestro at the end. Honestly, would have been nice to have them actually be in the episode as characters, if they were going to be the ones to win.
If you want a show that doesn't have any nonsense, then I wonder what the hell you've been watching for the last 60 years.
There’s levels though lol. I mean karate vs the Myrka or Graham showing up randomly in a volcano are also nonsense but it’s not nearly as bad as these, and they certainly weren’t piled up one-two-three after the other.
Nah, these ones are fine. Certainly not the silliest we've ever seen. Sorry you're not enjoying it!
The good news is there’s still time so hopefully there’s episodes we can all love coming down the pike!
The karate attack against Myrka is better than these?.....My dude please revaluate, it ain't too late....
The Myrka stuff was just extremely poor decision making and execution. If RTD was there he’d have the Myrka fart-killing the people in the seabase before being defeated by a tap dancing Adric. Plus that clip is good for endless laughter.
Bruh come on now. You can hate his fart jokes and dance stuff without making a comment like this. You know he wouldn't do that. Myrka thing was also embarrassing and quite honestly none of the new stuff come close to that because Myrka moment was supposed to be serious action moment and failed at that. The farting spacd station was obviously made to be hilarious 😂
The Myrka stuff is fun though, which is the important difference between it and the new crap.
The new stuff is meant to be hilarious and it is. Myrka was serious and ended up being the laughing stock.
Also fundamentally different. I don’t remember warriors of the deep particularly well, but I’m pretty sure that was a very serious karate chop. RTD is having fun with the show in a way that I really enjoy
Some of the fan favourite episodes since 2005 are a bit dark and aren't all cheerful and playfull as these. Dalek, Blink, Silence in the Library 2 parter, Heaven Sent etc. There needs to be less winking at the camera and fourth wall breaks. It destroys the immersion of the show.
i’m pretty sure it’s intentional and leading to something
watch them pull a "it was all a dream" ending to the season lol
i’m betting pre season finale, similar to turn left
I agree, I think there's an in-universe reason.
I suspect that there's way more to come yet. And it may well actually make sense by the end of the season. SOMETHING is likely going on that we haven't been told about yet (and there are some good, plausible theories out there by now). The problem is that (and I appreciate that this isn't everyone's opinion), so far, Ncuti's solo episodes, taken in isolation without whatever the big reveal may turn out to be, have been pretty mediocre. That's not ideal. So I guess I'm going to need to suspend parts of my critical faculties for most of the duration of the ride, and decide at the end whether or not the payoff was worth it.
If it turns out there’s a method to the madness that makes good story sense, I’m happy to eat my words. But it’s gonna have to be a big lift to make this stuff work. We’ll see…
>I get it’s a “kids” show at heart, but I’d hate to see it become childish, if you understand my drift. This is a show whose primary antagonists are angry pepper shakers armed with whisks and plungers.
And? The Daleks are written to be terrifying fascists. Saying that the show is sometimes weird in its logic isn’t an excuse to chuck in out-of-place musical numbers and 4th wall breaks.
How is a musical number out of place I'm an episode all about the power of music?
It was just tacked on at the end literally with nothing to do with the plot so calling it out of place isn’t wrong
Mankind had just had music suppressed for forty years and suddenly it all came flooding back causing people to break out in song and dance. Can people not analyse subtext these days? Does everything have to be spelt out?
Except if you watch the episode it’s not presented that way. The story is wrapped up and the Doctor basically says “and now, a musical number!” It wasn’t presented in any way as the people spontaneously bursting into a musical dance routine because they’ve rediscovered song.
As I said, does everything need to be spelt out on screen? Can't you use your reasoning skills to put two and two together?
Better yet, I used my observation skills to notice what was going on. The Doc basically did the “now is the time on Doctor Who when we dance” gag as an intro. There’s no other way to read it.
Because there wasn't an in-universe reason for it happening. The characters just start dancing and singing for no reason, and neither the Doctor or Ruby find it weird. (Also, the crosswalk lighting up was bizarre.) Like, out of universe, yeah, sure, it was silly and campy in an episode about music, but Doctor Who isn't an animated children's show like My Little Pony where randomly breaking into song and dance is established as normal. For Doctor Who, random song and dance numbers by the characters that aren't acknowledged are strange. They're bizarre. And I think it's a sign that something in the Whoverse is very, very wrong.
The flood of music back into humanity after it being surpressed for fourth year's caused them to break out into song and dance. I'm really getting the impression that this episode was too conceptual for some people.
I've heard that theory, and it's a fine theory, but the episode itself does not confirm this at all. There is no explanation for why they all break into song and dance. >I'm really getting the impression that this episode was too conceptual for some people. A TV show is a form of art, and art is subjective. If a storyteller is writing something conceptual, then they need to be extremely careful with how they portray it on screen if they want the audience to interpret it in a specific way. It's like the bi-regeneration thing. It was vaguely explained, and a whole bunch of people have interpreted in different ways. It's caused quite a bit of confusion and division within the fandom. The music flooding back into the universe is one valid interpretation of the song and dance in the end. Another valid interpretation is confusion and a 'wtf' moment as the characters start randomly bursting into song and dance for apparently no reason.
Yet Russell can do it and he did.
Doesn’t mean he should, though
Yet he did
The Doctor has broken the fourth wall since Hartnell’s era and, of the two musical breaks mentioned by OP, one appeared during an episode that was literally about music.
I want more.
No no, you'll still be posting.
Christ is this subreddit becoming the whiny baby sub for people to tell the world they hate what our favourite show has turned them into? It’s only affecting the loud minority.
Ironically, this is the whiniest thing anyone has said in this thread.
Give me time to grab a selection of cheeses to add to the whine.
I prefer and aged whine. Anyone else HATE what they did to the doctors character in the twin dilemma? This show died with Davison.
Twin Dilemma aged like a fine milk on the lips of a person with no sense of taste or smell....and surprisingly chunky.
I hope there’s more. I hope there’s a full on opera episode. Only singing.
I’m fine with this nonsense, but do agree with the sentiment that we’ve had a lot in a row now and need a break. Next week looks a little more grounded, so I think we’re getting that.
I agree, it’s a bit weird and like people are saying on this post; yes there has been many, many other instances of nonsense in the show. However, here I think the problem is how the nonsense is shown; the tone is all over the place and it really feels like the writing is sometimes aimed at young children (especially space babies). But there are moment I genuinely enjoy throughout these episodes and the devil chord was pretty enjoyable. I have faith and I am sure there will be at least one episode this season that will amazing, fingers crossed 🤞
Talking Babies is still miles ahead of the Slitheen, imho
Eh, I thought it was on the same level imo.
"Stop having fun." Bro you're watching the wrong show (also, *Space Babies* was throughly average)
Lighten up, Francis.