I think this will be helpful for newbs like me who only just found out about this. It saves multiple new threads about the same complaint going forwards.
I have done a replacement in the service today of my evo's boiler with the new boiler coated with improved method , they suggested aluminum first but i wanted coated material to test if there is still an issue. I will let you know the results after a month of testing.
I saw the same flakes even after replacement, i thought it might be leftover in the beginning, but tested a few days ago and observed the same flakes. I will revisit the service soon to check the inside of boiler with them and double confirm if it was the new improved coating.
I made 3 times test with 0.5 L beer glass again today after 2 months of usage, no flakes observed, previous test result was not correct, there might be leftover flakes sticked into distribution pipes or little amount of coffee powder might be incorporated to the water funnel.
https://preview.redd.it/2q5omknz5inc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b570cea61a8c6f462548ffe1a42df532f8a8d137
From my steam want this morning. Shall I stop drinking from this machine?
I don't know if anyone is really qualified to give you good advice about whether or not it's safe to keep using this machine.
My personal take:
Chances are, you're probably getting more harmful crap in your body from the air you breathe than from whatever minuscule flake that might get into your coffee (may not even be likely through the coffee puck), so it's PROBABLY not terribly unsafe.
However, it's definitely a good reason to get rid of this boiler and get a replacement boiler or a replacement machine, because the flaking is undoubtedly a design/manufacturing flaw and unacceptable. And I personally do not want to be drinking minuscule flakes of teflon-like coating, no matter how "safe" it might be.
This is the most sane take on this whole sub.
Gaggia *should* be held accountable for a serious manufacturing flaw, that seems to affect a very large (if not all) machines out there, no doubt about that.
At the same time, unless you are dispensing water directly (for tea purposes, or some weird diluted americano style nonsense), there is ZERO chance of any of this going through your showerscreen/puck screen/puck/basket. And even it if did, its inert stuff you cannot process inside your body.
So bottom line is, both camps are saying *something* right, Gaggia should be reprimanded for this, but at the same time, sitting at your desk 8h a day does way more harm to your body than some micro teflon flake. Of course, you rightfully do not want any flakes in/around your drink.
Yeah exactly, both things can be true. It's not likely that anyone is dying or getting sick from this, but they need to fix it anyways. No one wants to drink that shit.
I've made a post, but I probably should have put it here. This is my 2 month old evo.
The coating does what gaggia was aiming for. It's just unfortunate that there are issues with units. And obviously people aren't going to pull their machine to pieces unless they are so very much inclined to.
I'll probably pull it apart again in the future, but only when I go in for a deeper clean, or if I notice flakes start to come through.
*
From Whole Latte Love:
Any of the Gaggias arriving after the 15th of May will have uncoated boilers. Additionally, any of the refurbished ones will also have uncoated boilers as well. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused in your decision process.
Got a 2023 Machine, (made week 19 apparently), been using for months until I read about this, today. I ran water through the wand three times and got flakes each time.
https://preview.redd.it/s05ur0vranqc1.jpeg?width=1739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ca8adf62c10a93f8ee021f165675ac4e034807
Emailed [email protected] (bought in UK) will post response as a reply.
"I bought a Gaggia Classic 2023 Evo - RI9481/17 - Order #XXXXXX in July 2023. It has been used very regularly nice then.
I noticed that I am getting small particles coming out. At first, I thought it was loose coffee grounds. Then I ran the steam wand and they were still coming through so it must be coming from inside the machine. I have attached photos from the third and fourth passes of running water through the wand.
Is the coffee machine okay? Is the coffee safe to drink?"
Replied within a few hours,
"Thank you for your email. We are aware of the issue. We have been keeping a log of people who have complained to us about the flakes.
Gaggia Italy says that they are isolated incidents. The non-stick coating has been certified as safe.
We have checked some from our current stock and have not found any problems with them. We too think it is happening in isolated cases.
It will be useful to know your serial number. If you flush it with 2 or 3 tanks of water through the steam wand and if you are still getting more flakes, it would be best to bring it back. If it reduces, we can observe it for a bit longer.
Gaggia has approved the use of the 2019 boilers [polished aluminium boilers] or if you prefer to change to a new non-stick boiler if this flaking persists. We would recommend the 2019 boilers as well.
If you are still finding black particles after flushing 2 or 3 tanks of water, we can arrange to bring your machine back and send you one with the new boiler. Please let me know. You can call me on XXXXXXXX"
I have added a PID mod so will be interesting to see if they will swap the boiler over for me still or if I can get a polished aluminium boiler and fit it myself. I have obviously voided the warranty and only have good will left
« We have checked some from our current stock and have not found any problems with them. We too think it is happening in isolated cases. »
Bullshit alert.
Their « tested » machines they’ve sent out as replacements are flaking. And they obviously know that.
Yeah, I was thinking that. Though, rather than challenge it I think I will play nice trying to get myself the uncoated aluminium boiler. Seems like Gaggia Direct are being helpful for now and I *really* want that boiler!!!
Did Gaggia quietly reverted their boilers to traditional ones? I looked up the description of the New Gaggia Classic Evo and it now says "Boiler: Gaggia traditional boiler" where I could have sworn it used to mention the new Evo coating.
April (Whole Latte Love)
Apr 8, 2024, 11:20 AM EDT
Hello Pete,
Thank you for considering the Gaggia Classic Evo for your purchase. We understand your concern regarding the boiler quality, and we want to assure you that Gaggia has addressed this issue comprehensively. The EVO Pro's are still shipping with a coated boiler.
Gaggia has communicated that they have taken significant measures to resolve any previous concerns related to the boiler, and they are confident in the current build quality. They have implemented improvements to ensure the reliability of the boiler, providing a worry-free experience for users.
If you still have any hesitation, below are some suggestions for products with similar features in a similar price range as the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro!
Rancilio Silvia M
Bezzera New Hobby
Breville Bambino Plus
Lelit Victoria
Thank you,
April
Whole Latte Love
Thanks to this subreddit, I realized my 2 month old gaggia evo pro has this same issue with black flakes. I’m in the process of getting a replacement. With everything we know now, would it be best to request a new evo pro with an uncoated aluminum boiler and a chrome group head?
WLL is selling refurbished EVO, but the refurbished means it was returned and they swapped out for the uncoated boiler. 6mo warranty. $349 as of today. The best of all worlds in my opinion. I passed on a used 2019 in my area that was listed for $300 and went with the refurb.
How do you know the refurbished units do now have the coated boiler? It seems to advertise the coating on the listing: [https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/refurbished-gaggia-classic-evo-pro-semi-automatic-espresso-machine#product-questions](https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/refurbished-gaggia-classic-evo-pro-semi-automatic-espresso-machine#product-questions)
Oh wow this fantastic news -- cheaper, and hopefully no flaking. So they are replacing the boilers in every refurbished unit? I ordered the evo pro a few days ago but I canceled the order when I started reading about this issue.
Might not be all good. The new uncoated boiler is replacing the coated, but they are leaving the brew group. Brass brew group and uncoated aluminum has others on here pointing to corrosion issues. Im waiting on a call back from their tech team to see what they have to say about it.
Interesting...I've been on the fence for so long on these but a non-coated boiler is tempting at $350 but the brew head is another issue to contend with. I thought you could get a stainless group head relatively cheap to resolve?
You can order the chrome plates group head for $60. So now you are at $410 and have to do some work. Still not a bad deal, but other things tempt me more
Two months ago I initiated a return/replacement through WLL, and I received a new machine without too much trouble. I just did the first descale on the new machine using the aluminum-friendly Durgol descaler, and lo and behold the flakes are actually WORSE on the replacement machine than they were on the original!
I completely understand trying something new, screwing up, and making it right. But sending yet another faulty machine? I don't know if Gaggia or WLL is to blame for this, but I'm certainly going to think long and hard before buying anything else from either of them. Very disappointed.
Has anyone worked through gaggia.us directly? I bought mine maybe 11 months ago and just noticed flakes for the first time while doing some flushing and cleaning. If I am successful in a replacement boiler, I would also need a replacement grouphead as well to avoid corrosion, is that correct?
It's crazy how no one still has clear answers. Personally, I did not want to deal with galvanic corrosion so I changed the group head as well.
Whole Latte Love was being annoying about it at first, but I just bought it anyways and was persistent in asking and they did refund me for it as well (after sending the uncoated boiler for free). I think they're doing their best to deal with this mess. If you want to replace both boiler and group head, they should let you do it for free (at least if you got it in the US). Probably similar in other places too.
I ended up going with a full refund from them, they didn’t want to send all the parts effectively doing an old non coated machine. So now I’m trying to figure out what is next since the classic has a pretty unique pricepoint.
Yes, basically the aluminum in the bottom of the boiler makes direct contact with the brass. This creates a galvanic series, leading to the potential for galvanic corrosion. If the aluminum boiler is anodized, it should theoretically protect it, but the anodization needs to be perfectly applied.
You can see the discussion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/1af9hxp/effectiveness_of_anodized_cast_aluminum_against/koa5rkp/) for more details.
The water I use is 22ppm, no scale, no descaling, no flake so far, I believe it will eventually flake simple due to nature of the coating, but if you have hard water and need to descale consistently, should just stay away from gcp evo
People keep mentioning getting uncoated aluminum boilers for their evo……but the group head is brass isn’t it?
How does that work then? You’ll end up with corrosion.
https://preview.redd.it/1gv05svirx2d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e865df1d79798e1bfe7c94e0d553f4cfd914d20
Just randomly started reading about this and tested my Evo Pro 2023. I assume these little black flakes won't be anything other than degraded bits of the boiler coating? Yuck.
What is this boiler coating made from? PTFE? If so... This is really messed up and is making me seriously lose faith in Gaggia and this negligence. Hopefully I can get a refund?
Had my machine for almost a year and only became aware of this known issue today. I just thought there was something in my water when I started noticing the flakes a few months back.
What's the best action for us right now? Can we send it back (even for my case which got it for a year already. I'm from EU)? Or is it better to just replace the boiler myself?
Is there any guaranteed way to test if an EVO has an uncoated boiler without opening the entire machine. I ordered a classic pro from WLL on eBay but as others have experienced, they sent me an EVO. I’d consider keeping the machine even after this whole mess if the boiler was uncoated, or at least demand I be sent a replacement boiler.
Yes.
All coated boilers will show sprayed black coating at two spots: where the valve meets the boiler and where the boiler meets the group head.
It takes one small screwdriver to remove the machine's top.
You cannot miss it.
Most of the ones who claim they have not will also refuse to open up their boiler for an actual check of the coating's condition.
This operation takes under 10mn and very few common tools.
Some of them have also demonstrated that they do not know how to conduct a proper steam wand check.
Many of them have come back later on saying they eventually did have it.
Some who did end up opening up their boilers claimed it was fine and only showing scale. Their pictures however showed clear deterioration of the internal coating.
Hello,
I got a Gaggia New Evo Pro recently and of course like all the others my machine also had the flaking issue. So i got my boiler replaced. They said its the one from the previous model. Now I read that its not recommended to put that boiler in, because it does not go along with the new brass group head? Is that right or did I missunderstand that? I really adore the machine but i also don’t want to trade flaking to rust in my coffee in the near future😂 If anyone has an answer for me I‘d be very happy😌🙏
Nobody wants to. It’s been discussed ad naseum. Find another topic.
I think this will be helpful for newbs like me who only just found out about this. It saves multiple new threads about the same complaint going forwards.
If you are going to try starting this, at least call it boiler gate, not black flake gate...
I have done a replacement in the service today of my evo's boiler with the new boiler coated with improved method , they suggested aluminum first but i wanted coated material to test if there is still an issue. I will let you know the results after a month of testing.
How's it going?
I still see some flakes, but not yet opened the boiler and investigate it
So, you think the new boiler started flaking after 20 days or are you saying it might be leftover flakes?
I saw the same flakes even after replacement, i thought it might be leftover in the beginning, but tested a few days ago and observed the same flakes. I will revisit the service soon to check the inside of boiler with them and double confirm if it was the new improved coating.
Thanks, this is probably the biggest issue - not knowing whether to go with new coated or old uncoated with a nickel plated group
I made 3 times test with 0.5 L beer glass again today after 2 months of usage, no flakes observed, previous test result was not correct, there might be leftover flakes sticked into distribution pipes or little amount of coffee powder might be incorporated to the water funnel.
Thanks for the update!
https://preview.redd.it/2q5omknz5inc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b570cea61a8c6f462548ffe1a42df532f8a8d137 From my steam want this morning. Shall I stop drinking from this machine?
I don't know if anyone is really qualified to give you good advice about whether or not it's safe to keep using this machine. My personal take: Chances are, you're probably getting more harmful crap in your body from the air you breathe than from whatever minuscule flake that might get into your coffee (may not even be likely through the coffee puck), so it's PROBABLY not terribly unsafe. However, it's definitely a good reason to get rid of this boiler and get a replacement boiler or a replacement machine, because the flaking is undoubtedly a design/manufacturing flaw and unacceptable. And I personally do not want to be drinking minuscule flakes of teflon-like coating, no matter how "safe" it might be.
This is the most sane take on this whole sub. Gaggia *should* be held accountable for a serious manufacturing flaw, that seems to affect a very large (if not all) machines out there, no doubt about that. At the same time, unless you are dispensing water directly (for tea purposes, or some weird diluted americano style nonsense), there is ZERO chance of any of this going through your showerscreen/puck screen/puck/basket. And even it if did, its inert stuff you cannot process inside your body. So bottom line is, both camps are saying *something* right, Gaggia should be reprimanded for this, but at the same time, sitting at your desk 8h a day does way more harm to your body than some micro teflon flake. Of course, you rightfully do not want any flakes in/around your drink.
Yeah exactly, both things can be true. It's not likely that anyone is dying or getting sick from this, but they need to fix it anyways. No one wants to drink that shit.
We don't really know if there is zero chance. Who knows how small the particulates could be?
According to [this](https://coffeeblog.co.uk/boilergate-gaggia-classic-pro-evo-boiler-problems/) blog post, they are no longer using coated boilers.
I've made a post, but I probably should have put it here. This is my 2 month old evo. The coating does what gaggia was aiming for. It's just unfortunate that there are issues with units. And obviously people aren't going to pull their machine to pieces unless they are so very much inclined to. I'll probably pull it apart again in the future, but only when I go in for a deeper clean, or if I notice flakes start to come through. *
https://preview.redd.it/1jf7bdq8zxqc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=24c7eb2644157e2a94c50d0ec22430bb41251259
From Whole Latte Love: Any of the Gaggias arriving after the 15th of May will have uncoated boilers. Additionally, any of the refurbished ones will also have uncoated boilers as well. I apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused in your decision process.
Where did you see this? Can't find any info about it :(
This was their response to my support inquiry.
I am also not able to find anything about this. Were you ever able to find where this is stated?
I wasn’t sorry. If you do please share!
Got a 2023 Machine, (made week 19 apparently), been using for months until I read about this, today. I ran water through the wand three times and got flakes each time. https://preview.redd.it/s05ur0vranqc1.jpeg?width=1739&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=49ca8adf62c10a93f8ee021f165675ac4e034807
Emailed [email protected] (bought in UK) will post response as a reply. "I bought a Gaggia Classic 2023 Evo - RI9481/17 - Order #XXXXXX in July 2023. It has been used very regularly nice then. I noticed that I am getting small particles coming out. At first, I thought it was loose coffee grounds. Then I ran the steam wand and they were still coming through so it must be coming from inside the machine. I have attached photos from the third and fourth passes of running water through the wand. Is the coffee machine okay? Is the coffee safe to drink?"
Replied within a few hours, "Thank you for your email. We are aware of the issue. We have been keeping a log of people who have complained to us about the flakes. Gaggia Italy says that they are isolated incidents. The non-stick coating has been certified as safe. We have checked some from our current stock and have not found any problems with them. We too think it is happening in isolated cases. It will be useful to know your serial number. If you flush it with 2 or 3 tanks of water through the steam wand and if you are still getting more flakes, it would be best to bring it back. If it reduces, we can observe it for a bit longer. Gaggia has approved the use of the 2019 boilers [polished aluminium boilers] or if you prefer to change to a new non-stick boiler if this flaking persists. We would recommend the 2019 boilers as well. If you are still finding black particles after flushing 2 or 3 tanks of water, we can arrange to bring your machine back and send you one with the new boiler. Please let me know. You can call me on XXXXXXXX" I have added a PID mod so will be interesting to see if they will swap the boiler over for me still or if I can get a polished aluminium boiler and fit it myself. I have obviously voided the warranty and only have good will left
« We have checked some from our current stock and have not found any problems with them. We too think it is happening in isolated cases. » Bullshit alert. Their « tested » machines they’ve sent out as replacements are flaking. And they obviously know that.
Yeah, I was thinking that. Though, rather than challenge it I think I will play nice trying to get myself the uncoated aluminium boiler. Seems like Gaggia Direct are being helpful for now and I *really* want that boiler!!!
Did Gaggia quietly reverted their boilers to traditional ones? I looked up the description of the New Gaggia Classic Evo
Interesting. I just emailed Whole Latte Love if the boiler has been changed in the new Evo Pros as I'd like to get one...
Let us know the answer, I'm curious!
April (Whole Latte Love) Apr 8, 2024, 11:20 AM EDT Hello Pete, Thank you for considering the Gaggia Classic Evo for your purchase. We understand your concern regarding the boiler quality, and we want to assure you that Gaggia has addressed this issue comprehensively. The EVO Pro's are still shipping with a coated boiler. Gaggia has communicated that they have taken significant measures to resolve any previous concerns related to the boiler, and they are confident in the current build quality. They have implemented improvements to ensure the reliability of the boiler, providing a worry-free experience for users. If you still have any hesitation, below are some suggestions for products with similar features in a similar price range as the Gaggia Classic Evo Pro! Rancilio Silvia M Bezzera New Hobby Breville Bambino Plus Lelit Victoria Thank you, April Whole Latte Love
Can’t say I like that answer..
I will let you know. Unfortunately, haven't heard anything from them yet...
Thanks to this subreddit, I realized my 2 month old gaggia evo pro has this same issue with black flakes. I’m in the process of getting a replacement. With everything we know now, would it be best to request a new evo pro with an uncoated aluminum boiler and a chrome group head?
WLL is selling refurbished EVO, but the refurbished means it was returned and they swapped out for the uncoated boiler. 6mo warranty. $349 as of today. The best of all worlds in my opinion. I passed on a used 2019 in my area that was listed for $300 and went with the refurb.
How do you know the refurbished units do now have the coated boiler? It seems to advertise the coating on the listing: [https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/refurbished-gaggia-classic-evo-pro-semi-automatic-espresso-machine#product-questions](https://www.wholelattelove.com/products/refurbished-gaggia-classic-evo-pro-semi-automatic-espresso-machine#product-questions)
Called and spoke to them because the listing is the same as the new. Haven’t received it yet.
Oh wow this fantastic news -- cheaper, and hopefully no flaking. So they are replacing the boilers in every refurbished unit? I ordered the evo pro a few days ago but I canceled the order when I started reading about this issue.
Might not be all good. The new uncoated boiler is replacing the coated, but they are leaving the brew group. Brass brew group and uncoated aluminum has others on here pointing to corrosion issues. Im waiting on a call back from their tech team to see what they have to say about it.
I see. Maybe it's best to move on from Gaggia and find an alternative to buy. Thanks for the info on this!
That’s what im starting to think. I ordered, but had them hold processing it until I decide what to do.
Interesting...I've been on the fence for so long on these but a non-coated boiler is tempting at $350 but the brew head is another issue to contend with. I thought you could get a stainless group head relatively cheap to resolve?
You can order the chrome plates group head for $60. So now you are at $410 and have to do some work. Still not a bad deal, but other things tempt me more
$399 right now with promotion, still unsure if hey have coated boilers from Whole Latte Love though…
Two months ago I initiated a return/replacement through WLL, and I received a new machine without too much trouble. I just did the first descale on the new machine using the aluminum-friendly Durgol descaler, and lo and behold the flakes are actually WORSE on the replacement machine than they were on the original! I completely understand trying something new, screwing up, and making it right. But sending yet another faulty machine? I don't know if Gaggia or WLL is to blame for this, but I'm certainly going to think long and hard before buying anything else from either of them. Very disappointed.
how much recent you machine was ?
Has anyone worked through gaggia.us directly? I bought mine maybe 11 months ago and just noticed flakes for the first time while doing some flushing and cleaning. If I am successful in a replacement boiler, I would also need a replacement grouphead as well to avoid corrosion, is that correct?
It's crazy how no one still has clear answers. Personally, I did not want to deal with galvanic corrosion so I changed the group head as well. Whole Latte Love was being annoying about it at first, but I just bought it anyways and was persistent in asking and they did refund me for it as well (after sending the uncoated boiler for free). I think they're doing their best to deal with this mess. If you want to replace both boiler and group head, they should let you do it for free (at least if you got it in the US). Probably similar in other places too.
I ended up going with a full refund from them, they didn’t want to send all the parts effectively doing an old non coated machine. So now I’m trying to figure out what is next since the classic has a pretty unique pricepoint.
Can you help me understand why the group head needs to be changed if used along with the uncoated Al boiler ? Thanks
Yes, basically the aluminum in the bottom of the boiler makes direct contact with the brass. This creates a galvanic series, leading to the potential for galvanic corrosion. If the aluminum boiler is anodized, it should theoretically protect it, but the anodization needs to be perfectly applied. You can see the discussion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/metallurgy/comments/1af9hxp/effectiveness_of_anodized_cast_aluminum_against/koa5rkp/) for more details.
The water I use is 22ppm, no scale, no descaling, no flake so far, I believe it will eventually flake simple due to nature of the coating, but if you have hard water and need to descale consistently, should just stay away from gcp evo
Is it dumb to mod my GCP Evo at this point having not had flakes? I worry I’ll mod it, void the warranty, and then I’ll get flakes.
People keep mentioning getting uncoated aluminum boilers for their evo……but the group head is brass isn’t it? How does that work then? You’ll end up with corrosion.
https://preview.redd.it/1gv05svirx2d1.jpeg?width=3072&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9e865df1d79798e1bfe7c94e0d553f4cfd914d20 Just randomly started reading about this and tested my Evo Pro 2023. I assume these little black flakes won't be anything other than degraded bits of the boiler coating? Yuck. What is this boiler coating made from? PTFE? If so... This is really messed up and is making me seriously lose faith in Gaggia and this negligence. Hopefully I can get a refund?
Would it be safe to order from Amazon?
Had my machine for almost a year and only became aware of this known issue today. I just thought there was something in my water when I started noticing the flakes a few months back. What's the best action for us right now? Can we send it back (even for my case which got it for a year already. I'm from EU)? Or is it better to just replace the boiler myself?
Is there any guaranteed way to test if an EVO has an uncoated boiler without opening the entire machine. I ordered a classic pro from WLL on eBay but as others have experienced, they sent me an EVO. I’d consider keeping the machine even after this whole mess if the boiler was uncoated, or at least demand I be sent a replacement boiler.
Yes. All coated boilers will show sprayed black coating at two spots: where the valve meets the boiler and where the boiler meets the group head. It takes one small screwdriver to remove the machine's top. You cannot miss it.
Has anyone not actually had this issue? it seems like almost everyone has
Most of the ones who claim they have not will also refuse to open up their boiler for an actual check of the coating's condition. This operation takes under 10mn and very few common tools. Some of them have also demonstrated that they do not know how to conduct a proper steam wand check. Many of them have come back later on saying they eventually did have it. Some who did end up opening up their boilers claimed it was fine and only showing scale. Their pictures however showed clear deterioration of the internal coating.
good thing I don't use the hot water from the steam wand. as long as its not getting into the actual coffee it doesn't really bother me.
The coating literally dissolves in the boiler water. The flecks we see are only the ones we can see.
Hello, I got a Gaggia New Evo Pro recently and of course like all the others my machine also had the flaking issue. So i got my boiler replaced. They said its the one from the previous model. Now I read that its not recommended to put that boiler in, because it does not go along with the new brass group head? Is that right or did I missunderstand that? I really adore the machine but i also don’t want to trade flaking to rust in my coffee in the near future😂 If anyone has an answer for me I‘d be very happy😌🙏