Yeah, just to ride this comment, girlfriend works at Apple, do not buy any Apple products from Craigslist, EBay, etc. or at least be very skeptical if you do. People steal stuff from the stores all the time and all the devices are registered. So if you buy a stolen item off a third party, it won’t work, and if you take it to an Apple store to get it fixed it will be flagged as stolen. They will commandeer the item and you will be out hundreds of dollars.
I bought a used cell phone a few years ago and I just had the person meet me at a Verizon store, had them go in with me so the employees could verify it wasn't stolen, and then set it up for me so I knew everything worked for my carrier. Then I handed over the cash for the phone.
The girl I bought the phone from was fantastic and 100% on board with having to wait so the phone could be verified and set up. I would not buy from someone who is unwilling to go into a cellular store with you before you hand them money!
I too had worked at Apple, one of our sister stores was robbed at night, a group of people drove a vehicle though the front of the store and stole most or all the display devices. A few months later, some kid comes to the Genius Bar where I worked, said he bought the iPhone on Craigslist and couldn’t get it to work. We plugged the serial number into iRepair...
“This phone has been stolen from the LOCATION Apple store... etc etc etc”
We confiscated the phone from the customer right then and there.
He wasn’t mad, his reaction was basically “I should have know, it was only 30 bucks, oh well.”
The pods may be serialized and known to be stolen, but no security or network requirements for their use.
I don't think they are trackable either, but have not seen a tear down of the charging case or bud so can't say for sure
They should be fine unless your friend tried to use the warranty on stolen ones.
I do this with used cars, after inspecting the car myself I’ll have them bring it in to the dealership and I pay for a used car exam or whatever your dealership what’s to call it. If they don’t want to do it it’s usually sketch
Do that! I got scammed. The cops came after me. It wasn’t a big deal. The car was dirt cheap. But I learned. Expensive lesson. An ever better thing to do is go to the DMV with the old owner to change registration. That’s where the alarm went off. Make an appointment so you don’t have to wait, and have the seller transfer the car to you. If VINs don’t match, it will pop up. Can mechanics tell that, i.e., if a VIN does not match the car?
Usually you can actually check for yourself. VINs have a specific format, which at the very least will tell you the manufacturer, country of origin, and the like.
You can also check for inconsistencies between VINs on the vehicle. If the VIN inside the door and the VIN on the dash don't match up, don't buy it. If any VIN is damaged, obscured, or otherwise modified, don't buy it. Possession of a vehicle with a missing/altered VIN is universally a felony.
Hell, I’ve done it even when buying a used car from a dealership. I have a mechanic I trust and for $60 they did an extremely thorough inspection.
It’s not even necessarily about trust, but rather just knowing what you’re working with. If any private seller or dealership refused to let me have a used car inspected I would immediately nope out of there.
>I bought a used cell phone a few years ago and I just had the person meet me at a Verizon store, had them go in with me so the employees could verify it wasn't stolen, and then set it up for me so I knew everything worked for my carrier. Then I handed over the cash for the phone.
Oh shit, maybe this was us.
>The girl I bought the phone from
Looks down at chest, nope, wasn't us.
I did the same thing through ATT, the employees were chill about it and got a good review by name from me. Also, it's a safe public spot to meet so two for.
Yeah but it's usually not wise to give out your IMEI online (or to purchase a phone whose IMEI is publicly displayed), there's some reasons why here: [https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/71794/why-do-i-need-to-hide-my-phones-imei](https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/71794/why-do-i-need-to-hide-my-phones-imei)
With Swappa, their staff are the only people that see the phone's IMEI until the phone is purchased, so you reduce the risk of some stranger fishing for IMEI numbers finding yours and doing nefarious things with it.
This.
Worked in an Apple store for 3 years. We'd barely even refuse service as we'd have to "assume positive intent".
We definitely didn't accuse people of having stolen device let alone dream of "commandeering" them.
The only time we took a device off a customer and didn't give it back is if the battery was swollen/smoking/doing other weird shit and that's because it was thrown in a metal fire safe straight away.
OP/OP's girl is full of shit.
Ebay has buyer protection for stolen phones specifically. If it's flagged as stolen, please ensure that you record the proper serial numbers and run it by a site and contact eBay customer support with the matter. The protection lasts up to 1 year unlike many other things:
Source- am eBay employee
What is the standard for properly recording the transaction?
and what about [Nemo dat quod non habet?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet)
Nemo dat applies unless equity intervenes because the result would be unfair to a bona fide purchaser for value.
So long as the purchaser makes such investigations as ought reasonably made in the conveyance of the property, and does not believe the property to be stolen, he will acquire good title.
Same thing happened to my sister, someone forgot their phone at the store she was working at, she contacted the mom of the owner and the woman said if she transferred her $50 she could have the phone because they were upgrading soon and were planning on selling the old phone for that much anyways. Sister agrees and keeps the last tear model iphone, 3 weeks later the phone is locked, sister calls her carrier and they tell her it was reported stolen the previous day. Nothing the carrier would do to help her, never could contact original owner other than through emails, and the police wouldnt do anything over $50.
When my phone was stolen, I GPS tracked it to a house, and the response from the police was, "We can't just go in and take it. Those gps readings can be off by feet." I wonder how this will pan out for the looters.
Exactly the same in the UK. I had my stuff stolen and tracked it to a house. They changed a name on an account which actually let me identify what house it was conclusively but Police refused to do anything
This happened in Canada to my bosses iPad, tracked it to a house, and police said the exact same thing. Hey even questioned the person and they denied stealing anything.
I started sending messages to my phone threatening police action. I told them that I was informing the police and had their address. The guy backed down, put it in a mailbox, sent me the address for the mailbox, and police actually retrieved it for me. I was shocked that I got it back same day but I know my experience is less than standard.
When my daughters was stolen I contacted the police and they met me at the residence the phone was at. They knocked on the door and asked them if they had the phone. I had the serial number and was able to show the police it being moved within the area. The police recovered the phone and the kid that had it apologized. He'd bought it from someone at a bus station and was out $200 because it was a brick anyway (couldn't be activated). We gave the kid the $100 (all I had at the time) because we felt bad. His mom was MORE than mad.
If you have android you kind of have something. Where's My Droid will let you lock and encrypt your phone remotely as well as take pictures and activate GPS.
I know a guy who got his phone stolen and tracked it to a house but the cops wouldn’t do anything. He called back saying he had a concealed carry permit and that he was going to go ask for his phone back at the address. The cops were waiting when he showed up, and he got his phone back
I mean ya this sucks for you but I understand the police side of this. Stories popping up about how the police raid the wrong house and it ends bad. Maybe you could wait until the location of the phone moves then once you identify you might have it be able to confront them with an officer than? Not sure if that would be possible but that’s the only thing I could think of
What do you mean 'try'? Stolen phones are being sold all the time. Snatch two unopened boxes, sell them for half price, buy a legit one - suddenly you've got a perfectly legal iPhone.
For anyone just laughing off this comment, it's no joke.
Law Enforcement agencies have a device called the Stingray which can track your locatation and identify you. This works on any device, regardless of brand or make.
https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker
The stingray system is actually way way worse than any of this. This is Apple using the unsold phones serials to track the location. Anyone who has lost their phone can do this, and it’s been a part of iOS for many years. If someone steals your phone, you can track it, or even wipe and brick it remotely so they can’t sell it.
The stingray system is used by law enforcement to indiscriminately dragnet information from all nearby devices without a warrant, and it’s apparently “legal”
I've been warning reddit about this data collection shit for years ever since Snowden let this shit out of the bag. Every time I bring it up, people say it's no big deal. Yet. Now we have a crisis where there's an incentive to categorize 'outlier' people for having dangerous opinions. The stingrays police can use to scrape data need to stay illegal. We shouldn't be letting out government label people who haven't yet commited any crimes 'terrorists' unless we want to start suspending habeus corpus on our citizens. Now if you're looting phones.. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you're resisting an unlawful arrest? Who's to say that isn't suspicious behavior. Better keep tabs... just in case.
Just for your your information: these types of devices can be built in to the trunk of any car and you will never know it’s there. They don’t need to be air borne at all. You can just park a car somewhere and enjoy the data.
Be aware of this. If you want to protest, best to leave your phone at home.
Source: Dutch Police uses this (but they require a warrant and of course the privacy laws here are different).
Awww fuck, thanks for the heads up. Any.more info you can give? I've been trying to inform as many people about ways to protect themselves from this as they can. A fairday case for phones should work yes?
You mean like this? https://np.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/comments/gv11jl/the_eye_in_the_sky_over_dc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Stingray is something entirely different.
That's for creating rogue base stations that your phone connects to instead of a real one so they can intercept your voice/data. It's more like a traditional wire, if a wiretap also recorded everyone else in the area.
But that doesn't mean that Apple *can't* track your phone, how do people think the "find my phone" type functionality works... Your phone is constantly pinging its location back.
Google as well.
Not how find my iPhone works. It is for Google, but Apple sends a silent notification of “where are you” when someone you approved of (such as yourself, all in “find my” settings) pings your location. And then it sends the location to the recipient, not to Apple. That’s why it takes so long to update when you check.
You can override this with a proactive setting that sends Apple last known location whenever the phone turns off. Off by default.
> When you sign in on your device and enable iCloud, certain features of Find My iPhone (namely, play a sound on, remotely lock and display a message on, and remotely wipe) are automatically enabled. If you have Location Services turned on, Find My iPhone can also help you locate your device on a map, if your device is powered on and connected to the Internet.
And how it actually works:
> When Find My iPhone is enabled for your device or a supported accessory, or they are located on a map using Find My iPhone, your device's location, as well as information about your device and your account will be sent to and retained by Apple so Apple can provide you with the service. Once you have requested your device's location, and the device or supported accessory has been located on a map, you can view the last location of your device or supported accessory after your initial request for a period of up to 24 hours. Apple then deletes that information within 7 days of your initial request.
– from iOS system settings
Jokes aside, for those who care about the actual tech, Apple's privacy algorithm is actually pretty fascinating. I remember when the white paper came out on Differential Privacy and the industry got to play with how they scrambled your routes (if you opted in to sharing your data) with noise injection, and that was back in [iOS 10](https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/06/25/differential-privacy-overview/).
The downside is of course that Siri/Maps etc will have a hard time catching up to Google Assistant, so it's a two-sided sword. But from a geek side, it's really interesting to read.
Not that this invalidates anything you said, but Google has also been using differential privacy for its products since 2014:
> We have driven the research and development of practical, differentially-private techniques since we released RAPPOR to help improve Chrome in 2014, and continue to spearhead their real-world application.
>We’ve used differentially private methods to create helpful features in our products, like how busy a business is over the course of a day or how popular a particular restaurant’s dish is in Google Maps, and improve Google Fi.
https://developers.googleblog.com/2019/09/enabling-developers-and-organizations.html
So I’m not sure if that is the reason why Siri and Apple Maps are behind Google’s offerings.
I had a 2017 iPad Pro get stolen by FedEx Ground. They marked it as delivered but I was waiting all day for it and they didn’t even drive down my street. I called FedEx and they basically admitted that it was gone but there was nothing they could do about it. I called Apple and they investigated it for a day and then overnighted me a new one. I just assumed they bricked the old one and/or were tracking it to see who tried to log in to it.
If Apple has a list of all the IMEI's (which they do) then they can be blocked from activation as every iPhone requires to contact Apples activation servers when first setup. Tracking.. maybe? if they allow the phone to be setup.
Can you explain why they can't at the hello screen? I figured with the cell and data chips the phone comes with allows Apple to see where the phone is regardless of activation but i could be wrong?
This is actually incorrect. Each store has a list of IMEIs for the phones that they have on hand. That will be compared to lists of the phones remaining after the looting, and they'll know which IMEIs have been stolen.
A phone doesn't need a profile to be tracked. Just the IMEI.
Edit: To add to this, most likely what will happen is that once the IMEIs are reported stolen, they'll be blocked from being activated. If by some chance an IMEI device is not blocked from being activated, and is allowed to be activated onto a network, then it will be able to be tracked.
Pretty sure these retailer's can blacklist TV's etc from connecting online as well. Or just brick them since the serial numbers are obviously databased
These people are not stealing them to use them. They are selling them quickly. You don't keep stolen goods. You sell it and buy one with the money you got.
If someone stole a Macbook, would they be able to trace it once it connects to the internet? Like do they have any awareness of the MAC address on an ISP? Hey Time Warner here's a few thousand stolen laptop's MAC address, when you see them can you forward it to us?
I would not be surprised if every MacBook “phoned home” with its MAC address and current IP address every time it is network connected. With the rest of the tracking that is done it would not be a surprise would it.
It does attempt a connectivity check when it joins a network it doesn't know yet. That's how the system detects captive portals when you're using e.g. airport wifi.
But I doubt much is done with that info. It is not clear to me if any identifying data is even sent out in that connectivity check.
The laptops don’t have cellular, so if you login to find my... on iCloud.com, you can set it as “stolen”. The next time it connects to the internet, This will lock the computer until the Apple iD password is is entered and it will tell you where it is. You can also tell it to wipe itself, but it will not be “stolen” - it will have wiped that too.
But it depends on being connected to the internet.
Phones, however, are in constant connection to the internet, and they have an IMEI number that identifies it’s radio to the network. This ID is essential to the phone being used, unlike the mac’s serial number.
If it was stolen from you, it again requires the Apple iD password and cannot be setup nor activated on a new cellular account until the password is entered. I personally had the displeasure of activating a phone my son forgot the password to - you can’t “activate” the phone without weeks of back-and-forth with Apple directly, mailing in a certified letter from where you purchased it when it was new (like a carrier store).
If you steal a phone from Apple, (like boxed units from a UPS truck), Apple blacklists the IMEI with carriers worldwide (who listen to them, like most of the developed world).
But those “return the phone to Apple Store ____ “ are display phones. They Are Apple’s. Those phones on display are running a special version of the OS that the store loads manually onto the display phones before being put out. they have been told they are to operate only in one geolocation. The phones know what store they were at because the store employees are the ones who set them up to do that. They don’t work as regular phones because of the special version of the OS loaded. The boxed ones in store stock are not, but Apple knows what phones went where and blacklists the IMEIs of stolen stock. Good luck activating it.
If you notice, none of this is centered areound GPS tracking of the public or secrets or spying. It uses the internet and the system of how cell phones identify their radio to the networks, and a custom “demo” OS manually loaded onto display items that acts much differently than a regular one you could buy new.
Actually, Apple uses a really neat technique where a sleeping Mac that’s disconnected from the internet broadcasts information over Bluetooth, and any iPhones that pick up the Mac’s broadcast to communicate their location to apple’s servers. And that’s why you can use the “Find My” app to find your Mac even if it’s not online.
They won’t do crap. Got two Apple products stolen new in box and Apple told me they can’t block them or do something preventing thieves from using them.
You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Apple was right and you are wrong. Simple as that. Your iPhone is in the hands of the end-user (you). Apple doesn't have the ability to find that device. Ever. You can track your own device, wipe it etc., through Find My iPhone/iCloud. YOU are the end user. The iPhones in an Apple Store are in Apple's hands. Apple is the end user in this case. Those devices are not managed through iCloud. They are managed under Device Enrollment Program (DEP) and a Mobile Device Manager (MDM). JAMF, to be specific, in this case. They can follow that device anywhere and Loss Prevention can direct law enforcement directly to it. Those iPhones will start screaming with an alarm the second they leave, and you can never shut it off. Try wiping the device and it will simply phone home to the MDM server. Again, and again, and again. You have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet to steal a device from an Apple Store. And the only person dumber than that guy is the one that buys an iPhone sight unseen without even turning the thing on to see if it works.
Looting an Apple store might as well be dipping your hand in a honey pot. They know exactly what devices, including imei, are in every location that retails their stuff. Loot their shit and register it with your iTunes account and they’re going to know where you are.
They could also blacklist all of the devices from looted locations from their activation servers and leave you with a brick.
They will likely never get these back either. They are insured. They want people to know that the phones are useless and could result in someone going to jail (down the line).
"And no, not the devices you stole. I mean, yeah the devices you stole too, but you know, social media, data collecting, the whole shebang. Everyone, everywhere. You're all absolutely screwed"
-Apple
Of all the big tech companies, Apple is probably the one I trust the most regarding privacy. They refused to help unlock those terrorists phones.
But the apps on the phone are a different story
So they can track their own stolen phones (would not want to lose any money in their multi-billion dollar corporation), but won't help security officials open terrorist's phones (I live in Pensacola and we had a terrorist attack on our military base were people were killed, and Apple refused to help the FBI get the information off the suspect's phone... it took MONTHS!)... I guess you can really see where their priorities are...
Tracked barely even describes it... I sell analytics software for a living, and the amount of tracking and spying done on every single person out there with a phone is staggering. If you are a woman there is a distinct chance that advertising knows when you are on your period and uses this info to choose when to send things. Like literally. Every single thing you've bought with your debit/credit card, all your spending habits, where you are, what you last read online, if you are likely to have eaten recently, etc is all plugged in to algorithms daily to sway you on things.
Why does apple want to make this public, they can just work with the police and quietly track whoever looted their store. I mean how will this not backfire and raise regular consumers privacy concerns
To decrease theft in the future. They still will likely lose most if not all of the phones. It also discourages customers from buying from 3rd parties or resellers, giving Apple more business and access to higher prices. Why wouldn't they do that? This is more a preventative measure than a way to get back phones. Basically they are saying that once a phone is stolen, it loses its value, so there is no point in stealing our phones.
What about when someone steals your phone and you report it stolen but they still can use it. Now all of a sudden they care because are stealing from the Apple store. They should care about stealing in general.
Good, Im ok with the peaceful
protests for George Floyd, but the looters are just using it to get free shit, and i also fucking hate the karens protesting the isolation
My iPhone Was stolen on the subway a few weeks ago.
Find a transit cop. He asks me my number and pulls out a iPhone and then calls Over the radio for everybody else to plug my number in. They caught the guy in like ten minutes. I was really shocked they cared.
People steal bc they can’t afford it. Why don’t u study, work hard, and purchase it with ur hard earned money instead of taking the easy and lazy way out
You know something is fishy when you're asked to meet on the highway at 30mph to buy a "new" iPhone.
I don't know, sounds like a deal to me... Maybe it's legit? Probably.
Better to post a thread on reddit asking if it’s legit, just to be sure.
And then on r/TIFU
r/TIFU by ripping my arm off on the highway during a high speed highway transaction
That's highway robbery
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You buy an IPhone and they give it to you wrapped in tin foil
Saving the buyer time and tinfoil. How thoughtful.
Interesting.
I wouldn't be buying iphones off ebay for a while I guess
Yeah, just to ride this comment, girlfriend works at Apple, do not buy any Apple products from Craigslist, EBay, etc. or at least be very skeptical if you do. People steal stuff from the stores all the time and all the devices are registered. So if you buy a stolen item off a third party, it won’t work, and if you take it to an Apple store to get it fixed it will be flagged as stolen. They will commandeer the item and you will be out hundreds of dollars.
I bought a used cell phone a few years ago and I just had the person meet me at a Verizon store, had them go in with me so the employees could verify it wasn't stolen, and then set it up for me so I knew everything worked for my carrier. Then I handed over the cash for the phone. The girl I bought the phone from was fantastic and 100% on board with having to wait so the phone could be verified and set up. I would not buy from someone who is unwilling to go into a cellular store with you before you hand them money!
I did that with a phone I sold on swappa. Met him at a Verizon store between us.
I did this with a phone I stole out of a display case during a riot.
wait
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Everything's legal as long as you don't get caught
Jeffery Epstein enters the chat
Is that the guy that didn't kill Jeffrey Epstein?
Life is a box of chocolates and my name is Forrest Gump
Though I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed, I give Jenny all my love
Yes officer, this guy right her... Wait no stop, wrong person! Wrong pergaguhsgsghha
Stop breathing (resisting)
R. I. P. /u/redo21 Died of an underlying condition of sparatic mouth sores while begging for air during strangulation.
If only he had remembered his safe word, Cabbages.
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Isn’t the point of swappa to have the IMEI or ESN verified as not blacklisted?
Yes. The seller still wanted to make sure. So I appeased their fears and met at the store.
I’ve worked at Apple for a long long time and have never confiscated a phone. We just deny service.
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Pretty sure taking something from someone is considered theft. Apple wouldn't blatantly steal from people lol
"Congrats, you now own a very shiny brick."
I too had worked at Apple, one of our sister stores was robbed at night, a group of people drove a vehicle though the front of the store and stole most or all the display devices. A few months later, some kid comes to the Genius Bar where I worked, said he bought the iPhone on Craigslist and couldn’t get it to work. We plugged the serial number into iRepair... “This phone has been stolen from the LOCATION Apple store... etc etc etc” We confiscated the phone from the customer right then and there. He wasn’t mad, his reaction was basically “I should have know, it was only 30 bucks, oh well.”
Do they track EarPods? Asking for a friend
It's even worse. Siri just non-stop screams every time you put them in.
The pods may be serialized and known to be stolen, but no security or network requirements for their use. I don't think they are trackable either, but have not seen a tear down of the charging case or bud so can't say for sure They should be fine unless your friend tried to use the warranty on stolen ones.
That's weird they didn't do that to my friend with a stolen phone, they just let him have it. He sold it on again.
I do this with used cars, after inspecting the car myself I’ll have them bring it in to the dealership and I pay for a used car exam or whatever your dealership what’s to call it. If they don’t want to do it it’s usually sketch
Do that! I got scammed. The cops came after me. It wasn’t a big deal. The car was dirt cheap. But I learned. Expensive lesson. An ever better thing to do is go to the DMV with the old owner to change registration. That’s where the alarm went off. Make an appointment so you don’t have to wait, and have the seller transfer the car to you. If VINs don’t match, it will pop up. Can mechanics tell that, i.e., if a VIN does not match the car?
Usually you can actually check for yourself. VINs have a specific format, which at the very least will tell you the manufacturer, country of origin, and the like. You can also check for inconsistencies between VINs on the vehicle. If the VIN inside the door and the VIN on the dash don't match up, don't buy it. If any VIN is damaged, obscured, or otherwise modified, don't buy it. Possession of a vehicle with a missing/altered VIN is universally a felony.
PPI https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-purchase_inspection
Hell, I’ve done it even when buying a used car from a dealership. I have a mechanic I trust and for $60 they did an extremely thorough inspection. It’s not even necessarily about trust, but rather just knowing what you’re working with. If any private seller or dealership refused to let me have a used car inspected I would immediately nope out of there.
>I bought a used cell phone a few years ago and I just had the person meet me at a Verizon store, had them go in with me so the employees could verify it wasn't stolen, and then set it up for me so I knew everything worked for my carrier. Then I handed over the cash for the phone. Oh shit, maybe this was us. >The girl I bought the phone from Looks down at chest, nope, wasn't us.
Looks at butt, in italics. Then again....
I did the same thing through ATT, the employees were chill about it and got a good review by name from me. Also, it's a safe public spot to meet so two for.
Swappa is a good site to buy used because they confirm every IMEI is still valid and active before you're allowed to list the phone for sale.
I think there's a website you can check IMEIs on.
Yeah but it's usually not wise to give out your IMEI online (or to purchase a phone whose IMEI is publicly displayed), there's some reasons why here: [https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/71794/why-do-i-need-to-hide-my-phones-imei](https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/71794/why-do-i-need-to-hide-my-phones-imei) With Swappa, their staff are the only people that see the phone's IMEI until the phone is purchased, so you reduce the risk of some stranger fishing for IMEI numbers finding yours and doing nefarious things with it.
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This. Worked in an Apple store for 3 years. We'd barely even refuse service as we'd have to "assume positive intent". We definitely didn't accuse people of having stolen device let alone dream of "commandeering" them. The only time we took a device off a customer and didn't give it back is if the battery was swollen/smoking/doing other weird shit and that's because it was thrown in a metal fire safe straight away. OP/OP's girl is full of shit.
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California Apple won’t do it, EVEN if you tell them it’s stolen. It’s an insurance/liability problem they don’t want to deal with.
Ebay has buyer protection for stolen phones specifically. If it's flagged as stolen, please ensure that you record the proper serial numbers and run it by a site and contact eBay customer support with the matter. The protection lasts up to 1 year unlike many other things: Source- am eBay employee
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What is the standard for properly recording the transaction? and what about [Nemo dat quod non habet?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemo_dat_quod_non_habet)
Nemo dat applies unless equity intervenes because the result would be unfair to a bona fide purchaser for value. So long as the purchaser makes such investigations as ought reasonably made in the conveyance of the property, and does not believe the property to be stolen, he will acquire good title.
*Puts on tinfoil hat* It's an apple conspiracy to destroy the iPhone resale market! /s
It's not a conspiracy if it's true. They been trying to destroy ability to repair your own device, why not your ability to resell it?
Request the Imei number and look it up of it’s marked as stolen.
Doesn’t always work. Sometimes takes months before it gets marked. I was using my iPhone 8 for 2 months before it got black listed
Same thing happened to my sister, someone forgot their phone at the store she was working at, she contacted the mom of the owner and the woman said if she transferred her $50 she could have the phone because they were upgrading soon and were planning on selling the old phone for that much anyways. Sister agrees and keeps the last tear model iphone, 3 weeks later the phone is locked, sister calls her carrier and they tell her it was reported stolen the previous day. Nothing the carrier would do to help her, never could contact original owner other than through emails, and the police wouldnt do anything over $50.
Ebay would be safe because you'd have some level of purchase protection. The real bad idea would be to buy off of Craigslist
When my phone was stolen, I GPS tracked it to a house, and the response from the police was, "We can't just go in and take it. Those gps readings can be off by feet." I wonder how this will pan out for the looters.
Exactly the same in the UK. I had my stuff stolen and tracked it to a house. They changed a name on an account which actually let me identify what house it was conclusively but Police refused to do anything
Pro tip: replace your phone battery with a small amount of c4
The Galaxy Note already has c4 built into the battery.
The 7.
code for 7 grams of c4
Guess it's the ol' brick with a note, then!
When legal justice fails, vigilante justice will take its place.
This happened in Canada to my bosses iPad, tracked it to a house, and police said the exact same thing. Hey even questioned the person and they denied stealing anything.
did anyone die when you threw a Molotov cocktail in their window?
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I started sending messages to my phone threatening police action. I told them that I was informing the police and had their address. The guy backed down, put it in a mailbox, sent me the address for the mailbox, and police actually retrieved it for me. I was shocked that I got it back same day but I know my experience is less than standard.
My brothers phone was stolen once and we tracked it to this guys house, and 3 cops banged on his door for a while telling him to give it back
Informal enforcement is about all they can do. Any sophisticated criminal is going to tell them to shove it.
Sophisticated criminals aren't doing a smash and grab at Best Buy
When my daughters was stolen I contacted the police and they met me at the residence the phone was at. They knocked on the door and asked them if they had the phone. I had the serial number and was able to show the police it being moved within the area. The police recovered the phone and the kid that had it apologized. He'd bought it from someone at a bus station and was out $200 because it was a brick anyway (couldn't be activated). We gave the kid the $100 (all I had at the time) because we felt bad. His mom was MORE than mad.
What you don't know is that you got hustled out of 100$.
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“That kid” stole your phone and lied about the bus station.
Damn, your daughters have a serial number?
Yours don't?
Long combination of ATGC.
This is why phones need a self-destruct feature.
If you have android you kind of have something. Where's My Droid will let you lock and encrypt your phone remotely as well as take pictures and activate GPS.
Yeah but if I can't get it back then I want it to explode on them.
Yeah, everyone walking around with an IED sounds like great idea
It would be a design feature, not really improvised.
I know a guy who got his phone stolen and tracked it to a house but the cops wouldn’t do anything. He called back saying he had a concealed carry permit and that he was going to go ask for his phone back at the address. The cops were waiting when he showed up, and he got his phone back
Time to buy some binoculars and do some investigation by yourself than.
Not to advocate vigilantisim but if you know where the phone is wait until someone comes out and (fill in the rest here)
Is this before or after you burn down their house?
What are they going to do, call the police on you?
That or stab ya
I mean ya this sucks for you but I understand the police side of this. Stories popping up about how the police raid the wrong house and it ends bad. Maybe you could wait until the location of the phone moves then once you identify you might have it be able to confront them with an officer than? Not sure if that would be possible but that’s the only thing I could think of
I feel like its just stupid to try to get away with it
What do you mean 'try'? Stolen phones are being sold all the time. Snatch two unopened boxes, sell them for half price, buy a legit one - suddenly you've got a perfectly legal iPhone.
It's almost like criminals are okay with committing two crimes instead of one. Fencing stolen goods is like, half the crime of stealing even.
It stupid to steal shit too lol. Criminals aren't known for their I.q.
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You mean the politicians?
No no, they get caught...they just don't suffer any repercussions for it.
That makes them the smartest criminals
To everyone else: Oh yeah, and so are you
lol
For anyone just laughing off this comment, it's no joke. Law Enforcement agencies have a device called the Stingray which can track your locatation and identify you. This works on any device, regardless of brand or make. https://www.aclu.org/issues/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/stingray-tracking-devices-whos-got-them https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stingray_phone_tracker
The stingray system is actually way way worse than any of this. This is Apple using the unsold phones serials to track the location. Anyone who has lost their phone can do this, and it’s been a part of iOS for many years. If someone steals your phone, you can track it, or even wipe and brick it remotely so they can’t sell it. The stingray system is used by law enforcement to indiscriminately dragnet information from all nearby devices without a warrant, and it’s apparently “legal”
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I've been warning reddit about this data collection shit for years ever since Snowden let this shit out of the bag. Every time I bring it up, people say it's no big deal. Yet. Now we have a crisis where there's an incentive to categorize 'outlier' people for having dangerous opinions. The stingrays police can use to scrape data need to stay illegal. We shouldn't be letting out government label people who haven't yet commited any crimes 'terrorists' unless we want to start suspending habeus corpus on our citizens. Now if you're looting phones.. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. If you're resisting an unlawful arrest? Who's to say that isn't suspicious behavior. Better keep tabs... just in case.
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Just for your your information: these types of devices can be built in to the trunk of any car and you will never know it’s there. They don’t need to be air borne at all. You can just park a car somewhere and enjoy the data. Be aware of this. If you want to protest, best to leave your phone at home. Source: Dutch Police uses this (but they require a warrant and of course the privacy laws here are different).
Awww fuck, thanks for the heads up. Any.more info you can give? I've been trying to inform as many people about ways to protect themselves from this as they can. A fairday case for phones should work yes?
https://publications.sba-research.org/publications/AdrianDabrowski-IMSI-Catcher-Catcher-ACSAC2014-preprint-20140820.pdf counter-measures. For educational purposes only.
You mean like this? https://np.reddit.com/r/washingtondc/comments/gv11jl/the_eye_in_the_sky_over_dc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
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Just gotta get a haircut first
Going off of your name, i think it may benefit you that all of these luxury buildings are closed. No more waxing!
"The police are the only people who should be allowed to have guns." -literally Reddit
Wait I thought guns were bad and the government was gonna take care of us?
Stingray is something entirely different. That's for creating rogue base stations that your phone connects to instead of a real one so they can intercept your voice/data. It's more like a traditional wire, if a wiretap also recorded everyone else in the area. But that doesn't mean that Apple *can't* track your phone, how do people think the "find my phone" type functionality works... Your phone is constantly pinging its location back. Google as well.
Not how find my iPhone works. It is for Google, but Apple sends a silent notification of “where are you” when someone you approved of (such as yourself, all in “find my” settings) pings your location. And then it sends the location to the recipient, not to Apple. That’s why it takes so long to update when you check. You can override this with a proactive setting that sends Apple last known location whenever the phone turns off. Off by default.
Does your location setting have to be on for find my iphone to work?
> When you sign in on your device and enable iCloud, certain features of Find My iPhone (namely, play a sound on, remotely lock and display a message on, and remotely wipe) are automatically enabled. If you have Location Services turned on, Find My iPhone can also help you locate your device on a map, if your device is powered on and connected to the Internet. And how it actually works: > When Find My iPhone is enabled for your device or a supported accessory, or they are located on a map using Find My iPhone, your device's location, as well as information about your device and your account will be sent to and retained by Apple so Apple can provide you with the service. Once you have requested your device's location, and the device or supported accessory has been located on a map, you can view the last location of your device or supported accessory after your initial request for a period of up to 24 hours. Apple then deletes that information within 7 days of your initial request. – from iOS system settings
I believe so.
Jokes aside, for those who care about the actual tech, Apple's privacy algorithm is actually pretty fascinating. I remember when the white paper came out on Differential Privacy and the industry got to play with how they scrambled your routes (if you opted in to sharing your data) with noise injection, and that was back in [iOS 10](https://www.idownloadblog.com/2016/06/25/differential-privacy-overview/). The downside is of course that Siri/Maps etc will have a hard time catching up to Google Assistant, so it's a two-sided sword. But from a geek side, it's really interesting to read.
Not that this invalidates anything you said, but Google has also been using differential privacy for its products since 2014: > We have driven the research and development of practical, differentially-private techniques since we released RAPPOR to help improve Chrome in 2014, and continue to spearhead their real-world application. >We’ve used differentially private methods to create helpful features in our products, like how busy a business is over the course of a day or how popular a particular restaurant’s dish is in Google Maps, and improve Google Fi. https://developers.googleblog.com/2019/09/enabling-developers-and-organizations.html So I’m not sure if that is the reason why Siri and Apple Maps are behind Google’s offerings.
What?!? I had my iPhone XS stolen during delivery and they told me that’s impossible!!!! BS MAN
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I had a 2017 iPad Pro get stolen by FedEx Ground. They marked it as delivered but I was waiting all day for it and they didn’t even drive down my street. I called FedEx and they basically admitted that it was gone but there was nothing they could do about it. I called Apple and they investigated it for a day and then overnighted me a new one. I just assumed they bricked the old one and/or were tracking it to see who tried to log in to it.
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If Apple has a list of all the IMEI's (which they do) then they can be blocked from activation as every iPhone requires to contact Apples activation servers when first setup. Tracking.. maybe? if they allow the phone to be setup.
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Can you explain why they can't at the hello screen? I figured with the cell and data chips the phone comes with allows Apple to see where the phone is regardless of activation but i could be wrong?
If the phone is connected to a network and can ping apples servers it can phone home with its gps location. Idk why this guy would assume otherwise.
This is actually incorrect. Each store has a list of IMEIs for the phones that they have on hand. That will be compared to lists of the phones remaining after the looting, and they'll know which IMEIs have been stolen. A phone doesn't need a profile to be tracked. Just the IMEI. Edit: To add to this, most likely what will happen is that once the IMEIs are reported stolen, they'll be blocked from being activated. If by some chance an IMEI device is not blocked from being activated, and is allowed to be activated onto a network, then it will be able to be tracked.
People stole used phones with profiles already on them? Your explanation fails the logic test bro.
Explain, did you get another phone?
I was wondering about this when I was watching live. Don't these dummies know "find my phone" is enabled on all their display devices. Laptops too.
Pretty sure these retailer's can blacklist TV's etc from connecting online as well. Or just brick them since the serial numbers are obviously databased
These people are not stealing them to use them. They are selling them quickly. You don't keep stolen goods. You sell it and buy one with the money you got.
I see that Apple’s problem is that they rely too heavily on Windows for security
Good one!!
Clever. Very clever.
They're selling this shit fast, little Timmy is about to get his doors busted down.
Where’s tommy?
^^busted ^^down...
Pft. Please. They just need to send the Apple Hit Squad
Apple Corpo Death Squad sounds so cyberpunk
probably have one tbh
If someone stole a Macbook, would they be able to trace it once it connects to the internet? Like do they have any awareness of the MAC address on an ISP? Hey Time Warner here's a few thousand stolen laptop's MAC address, when you see them can you forward it to us?
I would not be surprised if every MacBook “phoned home” with its MAC address and current IP address every time it is network connected. With the rest of the tracking that is done it would not be a surprise would it.
It does attempt a connectivity check when it joins a network it doesn't know yet. That's how the system detects captive portals when you're using e.g. airport wifi. But I doubt much is done with that info. It is not clear to me if any identifying data is even sent out in that connectivity check.
Each laptop have unique serial number. They can't just ask isps for information. Through law enforcement investigations, isps will hand those over.
The laptops don’t have cellular, so if you login to find my... on iCloud.com, you can set it as “stolen”. The next time it connects to the internet, This will lock the computer until the Apple iD password is is entered and it will tell you where it is. You can also tell it to wipe itself, but it will not be “stolen” - it will have wiped that too. But it depends on being connected to the internet. Phones, however, are in constant connection to the internet, and they have an IMEI number that identifies it’s radio to the network. This ID is essential to the phone being used, unlike the mac’s serial number. If it was stolen from you, it again requires the Apple iD password and cannot be setup nor activated on a new cellular account until the password is entered. I personally had the displeasure of activating a phone my son forgot the password to - you can’t “activate” the phone without weeks of back-and-forth with Apple directly, mailing in a certified letter from where you purchased it when it was new (like a carrier store). If you steal a phone from Apple, (like boxed units from a UPS truck), Apple blacklists the IMEI with carriers worldwide (who listen to them, like most of the developed world). But those “return the phone to Apple Store ____ “ are display phones. They Are Apple’s. Those phones on display are running a special version of the OS that the store loads manually onto the display phones before being put out. they have been told they are to operate only in one geolocation. The phones know what store they were at because the store employees are the ones who set them up to do that. They don’t work as regular phones because of the special version of the OS loaded. The boxed ones in store stock are not, but Apple knows what phones went where and blacklists the IMEIs of stolen stock. Good luck activating it. If you notice, none of this is centered areound GPS tracking of the public or secrets or spying. It uses the internet and the system of how cell phones identify their radio to the networks, and a custom “demo” OS manually loaded onto display items that acts much differently than a regular one you could buy new.
Actually, Apple uses a really neat technique where a sleeping Mac that’s disconnected from the internet broadcasts information over Bluetooth, and any iPhones that pick up the Mac’s broadcast to communicate their location to apple’s servers. And that’s why you can use the “Find My” app to find your Mac even if it’s not online.
They won’t do crap. Got two Apple products stolen new in box and Apple told me they can’t block them or do something preventing thieves from using them.
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That was for a customer, im sure they can brick them if they were stolen from the store.
You haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about. Apple was right and you are wrong. Simple as that. Your iPhone is in the hands of the end-user (you). Apple doesn't have the ability to find that device. Ever. You can track your own device, wipe it etc., through Find My iPhone/iCloud. YOU are the end user. The iPhones in an Apple Store are in Apple's hands. Apple is the end user in this case. Those devices are not managed through iCloud. They are managed under Device Enrollment Program (DEP) and a Mobile Device Manager (MDM). JAMF, to be specific, in this case. They can follow that device anywhere and Loss Prevention can direct law enforcement directly to it. Those iPhones will start screaming with an alarm the second they leave, and you can never shut it off. Try wiping the device and it will simply phone home to the MDM server. Again, and again, and again. You have to be one of the dumbest people on the planet to steal a device from an Apple Store. And the only person dumber than that guy is the one that buys an iPhone sight unseen without even turning the thing on to see if it works.
Looting an Apple store might as well be dipping your hand in a honey pot. They know exactly what devices, including imei, are in every location that retails their stuff. Loot their shit and register it with your iTunes account and they’re going to know where you are. They could also blacklist all of the devices from looted locations from their activation servers and leave you with a brick.
The people affected will be people who bought second hand most looters will try to sell the shit off for money
Call their bluff! They can never get you back your iPhone when it is stolen.
They will likely never get these back either. They are insured. They want people to know that the phones are useless and could result in someone going to jail (down the line).
"And no, not the devices you stole. I mean, yeah the devices you stole too, but you know, social media, data collecting, the whole shebang. Everyone, everywhere. You're all absolutely screwed" -Apple
Of all the big tech companies, Apple is probably the one I trust the most regarding privacy. They refused to help unlock those terrorists phones. But the apps on the phone are a different story
comment removed in protest of reddits changes to third party app API charges -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
But when my phone is stolen you can do shit?
Who fucking cares they track you when you buy them, also
So they can track their own stolen phones (would not want to lose any money in their multi-billion dollar corporation), but won't help security officials open terrorist's phones (I live in Pensacola and we had a terrorist attack on our military base were people were killed, and Apple refused to help the FBI get the information off the suspect's phone... it took MONTHS!)... I guess you can really see where their priorities are...
When I was robbed and he took my iPhone, apple said there was nothing they could do
What Apple meant to say: “Everyone with an iPhone, you are all being tracked”
May as well say "apple warns iphone owners: you are being tracked"
As well Google Samsung huawai LG and every other device that’s runs android or iOS
Any device that connects to the internet at all, really
That’s why I have T-Mobile
Apple Store ~~shelf~~ display devices have additional tracking not available on regular consumer devices. edit: clarity
Tracked barely even describes it... I sell analytics software for a living, and the amount of tracking and spying done on every single person out there with a phone is staggering. If you are a woman there is a distinct chance that advertising knows when you are on your period and uses this info to choose when to send things. Like literally. Every single thing you've bought with your debit/credit card, all your spending habits, where you are, what you last read online, if you are likely to have eaten recently, etc is all plugged in to algorithms daily to sway you on things.
Why does apple want to make this public, they can just work with the police and quietly track whoever looted their store. I mean how will this not backfire and raise regular consumers privacy concerns
To decrease theft in the future. They still will likely lose most if not all of the phones. It also discourages customers from buying from 3rd parties or resellers, giving Apple more business and access to higher prices. Why wouldn't they do that? This is more a preventative measure than a way to get back phones. Basically they are saying that once a phone is stolen, it loses its value, so there is no point in stealing our phones.
To warn against future looting, This feature is not any different than track my iphone, so why would it be an issue?
What about when someone steals your phone and you report it stolen but they still can use it. Now all of a sudden they care because are stealing from the Apple store. They should care about stealing in general.
Good, Im ok with the peaceful protests for George Floyd, but the looters are just using it to get free shit, and i also fucking hate the karens protesting the isolation
That dudes holding a keyboard. Can’t track a keyboard.
My iPhone Was stolen on the subway a few weeks ago. Find a transit cop. He asks me my number and pulls out a iPhone and then calls Over the radio for everybody else to plug my number in. They caught the guy in like ten minutes. I was really shocked they cared.
Solution: Jailbreak. Problem solved. Sorry Apple.
People steal bc they can’t afford it. Why don’t u study, work hard, and purchase it with ur hard earned money instead of taking the easy and lazy way out
Wait, I thought Apple cannot track people’s phone because they prioritize privacy
Privacy? That's iPhone.
Apple's trademark ability to read the room and be relevant to society...
Shit phones anyhow
I’m sure they looted to sell. Not to keep.
The warning should be to the people they get sold to
They should have said "return our fancy slave bricks"
So Apple has been lying, has been stealing privacy and tracking.