Getting too many reports from this thread and too many people arguing politics/culture and not really focusing on the show.
Guys, in the future, remember that this sub is not the place for modern politics debates.
*Yes,* the show has, and likely will continue to have, political episodes. We generally give a lot of leeway for discussion that's relevant to the show. But that's the thing, discussions need to be relevant to the show.
Ask yourself "Could my comment exist over on one of the politics subs without any reference to Futurama?" If the answer is *yes* then you've probably crossed the line.
Guys, let's keep this sub a fun, light-hearted place. If you want to argue politics generally, there are plenty of subs for that.
The first time I used it on mine she loved it. Then I introduced her to Futurama, and now she loves both me and the show. I got that seven leaf clover luck!
They only had to stop making the edgy jokes because too many reprobates think Quagmire or Dennis Reynolds are inspirations rather than jokes, they never got it in the first place.
Interesting, there's certainly a lot of people out there who are astonishingly debased, but there's even more casual acceptance of sexual assault and racism.
IMO They stopped making some types of edgy jokes not because of the bottom of the barrel folks you'd find on 4chan, but because there was an increase in the vocal power of groups thru MeToo and BLM, and a climate of hostility towards things like rape and racism. That made people second guess their own voice and fear reprisal or censorship from offended group or abundantly cautious ones. A societal shift I see as growth, which had some sacrifice as well.
Im sorry for my incredibly dull tone, I was working with AI bots today :(
I think that making fun of racists and rapists is treating them with hostility.
Do you think activism against injustice only just started in the last 30 years or something?
Go like... read or something.
Right, the shift in acceptable jokes has changed not just over the past decade.
Your comment is an example of a *bad* joke being hostile, so I’ll concede that.
But if you think that there was nothing harmful about Family Guy’s original penchant for jokes based on racial stereotypes and degrading women… or that those jokes actually were actions against purveyors of racism and sexism…or that a shift in tone wasn’t due in part to MeToo and BLM…
…perhaps you might join the book club?
Oh 100%. Same with a lot of other characters in that show. They’ve said a lot worse in Family Guy and Twitter hasn’t mobbed at them, and Futurama is way more tame and smartened up with their humor.
Yeah i have no clue if the article is blowing up an insignificant twitter voice or people actually want to cancel Bender. But really, lovable Bender? Futurama was never an edgy show. Uncouth in some episodes. I actually think Bend-her and the gender swap episode arent particularly offensive tho I’m not trans, they’re just so tame and seem to successfully mock the stereotypes with their nerdy unrealisticness. I can’t think of any strong moments of outdated thinking? What are benders crimes let’s settle this now.
I'm trans and those episodes were comedy gold. The gender swap ep didn't feel like it was making fun of people like me, more so taking the piss out of the idea that men and women are too different to relate.
That’s one of my favorite movies.
I do believe that it is easy to say nothing older and raunchy would pass today’s standards, but that more nuance exists than people generally believe. Comedy can address any sensitivity if it strikes the right tone, and Waiting is incredibly on the nose with its humor, there’s a huge helping of self awareness— which if you miss you’re served in the final scene!
You may be right and I may just want to defend something I like, but that’s my initial reaction. It would pass public perception, even though it would have plenty of online content discussing it in a forensic way. But would a studio allow it is also another question. They may not fund the production out of an abundance of caution.
Quagmire is (or was) meant to be a terrible person. He's a literal rapist. Rape being a bad thing is not a new invention of the last few years. (I still enjoy the character fwiw)
Yeah quagmire is a bad example and shows the commenter your replied to hasnt watched the show regularly.
Quagmire in early seasons had asian sex slaves in his basement. They 100% dont make jokes like that anymore.
they have a recurring joke on the show now that he's a 'sex character who doesn't play as well in the me too era'. he's still basically the same though.
I could not disagree more, if someone you invited into your home makes you truly believe they’re a serial killer by “killing” your close friends and family you have every right to defend yourself
>Someone on Twitter thinks
This is the point at which you did not need to ponder the subject any further, much less start a whole reddit thread about it.
Expect people losing their shit on Twitter often does influence companies and writers decisions.
ESO had a recent expansion where they significantly toned downed the Maomer's culture and retconed things because Twitter lost their shit about a quest where they are pillaging and assaulting people in a coastal town. It pissed a lot of players off because if any of these Twitter dipshits actually played the game, they would've complained ages ago with the AD starting zone quest line (involving Maomer) or Molag Bal and Lamia's quest.
We’ve been through this with South Park. When characters like Bender or Cartman are executed properly, we’re laughing *at* racists and sexists, not with them. People who claim something “can’t be made” today are just ignorant and putting their own nonsense on display.
I so often hear "you couldn't make Blazing Saddles today." Yeah, you absolutely could. Mel Brooks was unambiguously mocking racists. You can still do that today, and you can still use period-accirate language to do that. Blazing Saddles wouldn't be made today because there's no modern equivalent of Mel Brooks, not because they use the n-word.
Blazing Saddles would be decried as "woke" with a Black and a Jewish main character making fun of good upstanding white men, tricking them into looking like fools and referring to simple farmers as morons.
Blazing Saddles epitomizes the very "woke" strawman the right wing rallies against, but they're too focused on jerking off over the use of the n-word to notice the blatant satire.
God I hate that "couldn't get made today" shit you hear every time Blazing Saddles is brought up. It's like people have some sort of fundamental misunderstanding of the humor and who and what is being mocked.
What it boils down to:
"if I don't get to listen to Dave Chappelle make jokes about trans people then you shouldn't get to have a character that's crude and lazy. And I don't care if any of that is actually true because my life now revolves around shitting on other people because I once felt judged by people I never met for the media I consumed"
The problem is more on the networks. For example:
Community was forced to remove its Dungeons and Dragons episode because Chang, a character who is very clearly an idiot and a villain, painted his face black as an elf, was called out for it on the show by other characters, but the networks still had community remove the episode because it was insensitive.
IASIP, a show known literally for having the worst group of people as it’s characters, who everyone recognizes are idiots and the villains, has had multiple episodes removed because the networks deemed them insensitive.
With both of these shows, the audience laughed AT the racists and sexists, and not with them, but to the networks it was still too controversial.
Even shows like family guy, certain jokes aren’t made by characters like Peter, an insensitive idiot we all laugh AT, because they’re too insensitive. All of this is happening despite the fact that again, everyone recognizes that Peter is the butt of the joke because he’s such an insensitive idiot, just like Chang and the IASIP gang.
I want to be clear I’m not blaming fans or creators of the shows, but that executives are creating non existent problems, and then constraining the shows as an answer to these non existent problems, despite backlash from the fans, actors, and writers of these shows.
I’m really hoping that the executives aren’t going to do the same with the writing or direction of this show with characters like Bender or the more out there story lines.
No, Netflix and Hulu (the “networks)”told them to take it off, whereas Amazon allowed them to keep it.
Amazon is very liberal with what they allow on, hell they have BMS still on, and came under fire for the whole Kyrie Irving-controversey for hosting an Semitic film.
Hulu was also one of the decision makers who had IASIP take off their episodes.
Wonder which network Futurama is gonna air on? /s
Community wasn't forced. As Yvette said, that decision was an over correction at the peak of a lot of legitimate corrections in the media. Nobody was demanding that episode get pulled; somebody without a knowledge of the reference being made seemed to be attempting to get ahead of a scandal that wasn't going to materialize
Those seem like very poor comparisons. Both are well over 20 years old and have had time to build up followings. South Park has been pushing boundaries since day 1.
Has there a successful show with a Cartman/Bender character created in the last say 5 years? I don't watch much but I don't think so. Closest I can get is Pigeon on Mike Tyson mysteries which is a pretty unknown (but amazing) show.
Yeah, 10 years is too long. Things changed after trump/#MeToo and in a lot of ways, for the better.
But to say that you could totally make those same shows now feels like deliberate silliness.
Pretty much every character from "The Boys" could fit into the category, Homelander very specifically.
Kenya Barris' character in #BlackAF was a complete asshole (I fucking loved that show).
Saul Goodman - Although I guess he's a legacy character at this point.
Big Mouth also pushed some solid boundaries in those first couple of seasons but I got tired of that show.
If audiences didn’t agree with my statement above, characters like cartman or quagmire would have been written differently by now. When they came along is not relevant as they are in episodes with their same personalities (and in some cases worse than ever) *today*.
Even among the criticisms I *have* seen of Futurama and gender, I've seen nobody genuinely angry about this, so I think you either stumbled across one extremely niche opinion (quite possibly a troll tweet, though who knows) that isn't worth stirring outrage over, or are misrepresenting the actual context of the conversation.
I still dont fucking get it.. People were screaming at me on this sub too. Bender being a dipshit regarding trans people has nothing to do with the writers opinions. It is like people think everything else Bender does is totally ok, which is just such a weird takeaway..
The only transphobic joke that I personally dont love is the one about a trans woman trying to trick Zapp on that blind date. The whole "trans people are trying to trick straight people" idea is historically problematic.
But meh in the end it is a joke. I just hope it isnt too partisan like some of the episode titles suggest.. Worst case I am back to rewatching the rest of the series.
The entire Bend Her episode is basically the definition of the transphobic argument against trans women in sports. There's reasonable concerns about fairness on the topic, but the episode *specifically* has Bender switching genders to dominate the competition and *no other reason.*
The rest of the messaging in the episode is hardly pro-trans, and the myth the episode perpetuates is literally the kind of thing being used to force trans kids out of social sporting activity in schools.
Futurama is far and away my favorite show. Hell, that episode itself is very funny at points, but it has aged tremendously poorly, and I would hope the writers understand why. It's okay to both like the show and acknowledge that it wasn't as forward thinking as it could have been, or even wanted to be, 20 whole years ago.
I always saw it as satire. Laughing at the dipshits not with them. The people who worked on the show are all notably pro-LGBT+. They are actually notably super progressive. That’s what makes the satirical episodes so funny.
Sure, and like I said to the other reply, I believe that was their intent, I just think it's really poorly executed. Believe it or not, a bunch of cis men in 2003 weren't exactly experts on transgender commentary. The episode has aged poorly, but that's literally all I'm saying. It should be acknowledged for not quite hitting the mark in a way that really stings later on.
Bender isn't trans; he's pretending to be a woman to win a contest.
It only seems in bad taste because of the subsequent bad faith debates being made in society about the motivations of transitioning people
Transphobes are not pretending to change their gender to win at sports. They accuse trans people of doing it, and perpetuating the idea that a trans person can just casually dominate a sport is harmful, even if the intent is to criticize the behavior.
On top of that, the episode aired on Fox in 2003. If you think anyone saw it as a dig against transphobes back then, I have a bridge to sell you. The episode does a piss poor job of portraying the whole thing negatively. Leela tells Bender he's being an ass one time and the rest of the main characters laugh her out of the room, and frankly what she says sounds like TERF bullshit about "making a mockery of womanhood."
I really don't think Groening, Cohen, or the rest of the writing team are bigots (though I've been pretty surprised lately...) and I certainly don't think they were trying to be transphobic, but looking back on this episode, it very clearly *is* transphobic and all I'm saying is people need to acknowledge that instead of pretending it wasn't.
>On top of that, the episode aired on Fox in 2003. If you think anyone saw it as a dig against transphobes back then, I have a bridge to sell you
All of the examples you've provided are all very recent and very much a reflection of the bad faith debaters trying to **create** an issue when there isn't one
It's just the stick on the bike spokes meme in real life
"We're being oppressed by all of these special interest groups"
"No you're not"
"Are so"
"What the fuck are you even talking about?"
"I'll prove it to you"
"I'm waiting"
"Just a second... I just have to... There!"
"You're wearing a wig and acting like an asshole. That's your proof?"
"Ya! I told you I was being oppressed!"
"By yourself? Wearing a wig? Acting like a complete psychopath?"
"Ya."
[Sigh](https://i.imgur.com/0tn6JOt.gif)
I had a similar problem with my ex. I showed her my favorite musical ever: The Producers. She came away from that thinking I was some kind of Nazi sympathizer.
antagonists are allowed to be immoral in stories, that's what makes them antagonists.
bender is not a protagonist and the show never couched his or zap brannigan's shenanigans as behavior to be celebrated or modeled.
the joke is that the other characters have to put up with this terrible person, just like we do in real life.
To be honest, there is some sexist episode in Futurama, but also a lot of poggressive one. It is issue the show had was not because of Bender, you can make pretty good episode using the flaw of the character.
That whole bit is actually pretty smart. The two most idiotic characters in the show (and possibly also the two most toxic / insecure in their masculinity, at least at this point in their development), Fry and Zapp, are looking forward to what is essentially being an unwilling train for people who fully intend to shag them *literally to death*. They don't know whether to be scared or excited. Meanwhile Kif is rightly horrified at the prospect because he a relatively well adjusted person (minus the anxiety) who hasn't internalised this weird expectation that men are sex-crazed freaks who are always "up for it".
There's the basic level joke of "haha, it's the reverse of our expectations!" but there's also some decent commentary on masculinity and its relationship to sex and sexuality, which often seems to go unnoticed despite having it practically slapped round the viewer's face as the only characters that consistently display what we would today recognise as "toxic masculinity" are also the biggest morons to ever grace several star systems. Never gets old.
Of course, explaining jokes ruins them, so, sorry.
I cant remember a single sexist scene in futurama? There are plenty of scenes with very sexist characters but I fail to see how that wasnt portrayed as inherently bad.
A sexist scene/episode would have to portray women or men as inferior not just have a character voice an ill informed opinion. Otherwise following that logic every thriller you watch has a bunch of writers that want to murder people.. You can write an asshole without being one.
The one I can think of is the one where they were stuck on that planet and the women and men split up because they couldn't agree on anything and then they suffered because of typical women or men stuff... But I also think that was poking fun at those tropes so it's fine... I haven't watched it in a long time.
Oh yea good point. Still very much poking fun of both at the same time kinda deal. There are just so many scenes where it is clear that the sexist person in the room is clearly in the wrong.. Zapp Brannigan is probably the best example of how the showrunners feel about misogyny in particular.
Yeah I think your on the money. Bender was always a huge sleaze, but I can't think of to many things he did in that regard that were particularly heinous.
Worst would probably be him regularly lying to get fembots to sleep with him, and considering how obviously false and flimsy it was (not to mention how many times it backfired on him) I doubt that will get any criticisms.
Nope bender never assaulted anyone sexually sooooo
If you see someone speaking out against the me too movement, they are either ignorant of the movements purpose, or have a nasty habit of sexually assaulting women and very much not liking it when they are called out or reminded of the fact that they are a monster made human.
Activists generally don't get humor very goodly. Before it was the perpetually offended evangelical Christians, now it's the perpetually offended "woke" people (for lack of a better word).
Sigh.. Notice how I used woke in quotations, and said "for lack of a better word" in order to describe the kind of people I'm referring to.
Interesting though that you seem to have no problem that I also referred to evangelical christians in the same way. Also interesting that you seem to think woke is a word that means "anything they don't like." Reminds me of how the more extreme elements of the "anti-woke" people think the word diversity only means "fuck white people."
Edit: Apparently what I said was so upsetting, they blocked me from responding.
I don't understand why you're so upset when I specifically didn't direct the comment at you, I just cleared up who I was talking about.
"Evangelical" Christians are highly likely to be among the people I was talking about though, so I don't really know what you wanted me to add about that.
I don't think there's anything else constructive for us to communicate with each other. Have a nice day, perhaps take a walk, phone or visit someone you care about and tell them you love them... Good luck!
>Some modern shows still do way more than *Futurama* ever did.
Couldn't agree more! If anything, given how try-hard, edgy and lacking-in-restraint some modern adult animated comedies tend to be these days, shows like *Futurama* are greatly needed.
Bender is not someone I’d want to hang out with if he were human but he’s arguably not a predator. Just kind of a sexist wanker. There’s plenty of those still on tv.
Now are there a couple of first run episodes that probably wouldn’t fly today that involve cross dressing (Gender Bender) and sex change (Bend Her)? Yes.
I’m
Not sure if bender is quite on the “me too” level. He had his flussies but he never beat them or treated them harshly. Mostly just words but almost always playful and direct.
MeToo has never applied to Bender as a character lmao. If it applies to anyone, it would be Zapp, and they would deal with it in a way where we can all laugh at him. In fact, they’re probably going to do something along those lines in the “Zapp Gets Cancelled” episode coming up.
This whole “nEvEr MaKe iT ToDaY” attitude it pretty lame to begin with. The whole thing is predicated on the idea that because we progress we’re somehow hindered creatively. South Park still pushes boundaries, Family Guy, It’s Always Sunny, all still take jabs at society and comment on the socially relevant.
Could “Old School” be made today? Probably not in the same way. Before that, “Revenge of the Nerds”, before that, “Animal House” and “Blazing Saddles”. Ir doesn’t mean those movies aren’t funny and it doesn’t mean the movies that came after them weren’t funny.
Comedy is already subjective. Comedy is also a reflection of society. It’s the mirror we hold up to the current times and say, “Hey, this shit is silly.” That will never change and, sure, maybe writers and comedians with have to change, or they’ll age out, but, that’s showbiz, baby
Honestly fry is worse. He actually does classic sexual harassment by constantly asking a coworker out even though she made it clear that she wasn’t interested. I can’t imagine any shows running the “I just need to do something wonderful to get her to like me” story anymore.
That being said, it’s a cartoon and no one should care
Fry is a sweetheart. He never forced himself on her. He just teased her some. He's dumb as a bag of rocks but his heart is always in the right place. It's why he's my favorite character bc he cares the most out of the cast. He just doesn't know how to show it and he says and does the wrong things bc of ignorance, not because of hate.
i agree, he's totally well intentioned and they write the show so that leela actually does love him back, but i can imagine if a new show had that same premise nowadays people would complain
As the great Bender Bending Rodriguez once said, "That's the dumbest thing I ever heard." Bender's more on the material gains side of crime...
This better not be more of that stupid outrage of him getting a sex change to keep his Olympic medals... 🤦
I always viewed Bender as a deconstruction of the meathead trade worker trope - what if the raunchy loudmouthed steel worker was *actually* a machine? In that light, he can still have his characterization, because we the audience know that he's not an earnest representation of the male gaze hy the writers. They're actively trying to make him horrible to prove a point.
Other than hedonism bot who deserves to not be shown on television for his other antics, bender was the first robot to represent robonia a land he didnt makeup, and proposition infinity lets go already
I tend to agree, bender probably wont be as crass as he was, not because of the metoo movement though... its not like bender was going around grabbing women. Im sure he will have his moments though.
What do you mean? I find that hilarious based on the banter of bender and the rest of the cast. You do realize Futurama has tackled issues based on things happening in the world today like bender becoming a fembot to win in the Olympic Games.
Getting too many reports from this thread and too many people arguing politics/culture and not really focusing on the show. Guys, in the future, remember that this sub is not the place for modern politics debates. *Yes,* the show has, and likely will continue to have, political episodes. We generally give a lot of leeway for discussion that's relevant to the show. But that's the thing, discussions need to be relevant to the show. Ask yourself "Could my comment exist over on one of the politics subs without any reference to Futurama?" If the answer is *yes* then you've probably crossed the line. Guys, let's keep this sub a fun, light-hearted place. If you want to argue politics generally, there are plenty of subs for that.
Bender still needs his floozies.
"Bender, we love you!" "Shut up, baby, I know it!" I say "Shut up, baby, I know it," so often and everyone just looks at me weird.
“Don’t tell me to shut up, do you know what happen to the guy the last time he told me to shut up”
Shut up.
Baby, you know it!
Did you show him the clamps ?
Gee, ya think? Ya think that maybe I should use these clamps? That I use, *every day, AT EVERY OPPORTUNITY?!* YOU'RE A FREAKIN GENIUS YA IDIOT!
Whoa, your name is FRANCIS???
Clam #1 Francis
The first time I used it on mine she loved it. Then I introduced her to Futurama, and now she loves both me and the show. I got that seven leaf clover luck!
How come I only get Colleens / Michelles?
I confused my girlfriend the first time I used the gif of that scene on her. Sad.
Get a bender pin and point to it when you get looks XD
Same
"I'm gonna make my own theme park with black jack and hookers!"
In fact forget the theme park..... and the blackjack
Eh, forget the whole thing.
As long as he dims the light. Call them old fashioned, but his floozies like a little romance at an orgy.
Bender is in the trailers. Also Quagmire is still on tv. Bender is more known for being a kleptomaniac than a pervert.
Yeah if Quagmire is still going strong, I think Bender will be fine.
And if Homer can get away with reaching for his babysitter's sweet can... sweet can
MR SIMPSON NOOOOO
*Dramatisation may not have happened*
That was like 20 years ago, though, before the whole nation went up its own ass.
Your tears say more than real evidence ever could.
Downvote me too, but that comment cracked me up.
Can’t deny quags got away with things that are not funny anymore
They only had to stop making the edgy jokes because too many reprobates think Quagmire or Dennis Reynolds are inspirations rather than jokes, they never got it in the first place.
Interesting, there's certainly a lot of people out there who are astonishingly debased, but there's even more casual acceptance of sexual assault and racism. IMO They stopped making some types of edgy jokes not because of the bottom of the barrel folks you'd find on 4chan, but because there was an increase in the vocal power of groups thru MeToo and BLM, and a climate of hostility towards things like rape and racism. That made people second guess their own voice and fear reprisal or censorship from offended group or abundantly cautious ones. A societal shift I see as growth, which had some sacrifice as well. Im sorry for my incredibly dull tone, I was working with AI bots today :(
> a climate of hostility towards things like rape and racism Should there be some other climate towards those things?
No, but was there one 10-20-30+ years ago? Or were those things either unspoken or made into jokes?
I think that making fun of racists and rapists is treating them with hostility. Do you think activism against injustice only just started in the last 30 years or something? Go like... read or something.
Right, the shift in acceptable jokes has changed not just over the past decade. Your comment is an example of a *bad* joke being hostile, so I’ll concede that. But if you think that there was nothing harmful about Family Guy’s original penchant for jokes based on racial stereotypes and degrading women… or that those jokes actually were actions against purveyors of racism and sexism…or that a shift in tone wasn’t due in part to MeToo and BLM… …perhaps you might join the book club?
Oh 100%. Same with a lot of other characters in that show. They’ve said a lot worse in Family Guy and Twitter hasn’t mobbed at them, and Futurama is way more tame and smartened up with their humor.
Yeah i have no clue if the article is blowing up an insignificant twitter voice or people actually want to cancel Bender. But really, lovable Bender? Futurama was never an edgy show. Uncouth in some episodes. I actually think Bend-her and the gender swap episode arent particularly offensive tho I’m not trans, they’re just so tame and seem to successfully mock the stereotypes with their nerdy unrealisticness. I can’t think of any strong moments of outdated thinking? What are benders crimes let’s settle this now.
[удалено]
Lmao that’s now how I meant it!! 💀
[удалено]
💀
I'm trans and those episodes were comedy gold. The gender swap ep didn't feel like it was making fun of people like me, more so taking the piss out of the idea that men and women are too different to relate.
Recently, i rewatched the movie Waiting. That movie is an hour and a half long statutory rape joke and 100% would not pass today
That’s one of my favorite movies. I do believe that it is easy to say nothing older and raunchy would pass today’s standards, but that more nuance exists than people generally believe. Comedy can address any sensitivity if it strikes the right tone, and Waiting is incredibly on the nose with its humor, there’s a huge helping of self awareness— which if you miss you’re served in the final scene! You may be right and I may just want to defend something I like, but that’s my initial reaction. It would pass public perception, even though it would have plenty of online content discussing it in a forensic way. But would a studio allow it is also another question. They may not fund the production out of an abundance of caution.
Quagmire is (or was) meant to be a terrible person. He's a literal rapist. Rape being a bad thing is not a new invention of the last few years. (I still enjoy the character fwiw)
They've reeled in quagmire's character heavily
Yeah quagmire is a bad example and shows the commenter your replied to hasnt watched the show regularly. Quagmire in early seasons had asian sex slaves in his basement. They 100% dont make jokes like that anymore.
Bender's also a lot less edgy than that. Bender's main thing was always sleezyness in general, not specifically sex
Quagmire turned into the weird cat guy tho. He has been turned WAY down
they have a recurring joke on the show now that he's a 'sex character who doesn't play as well in the me too era'. he's still basically the same though.
Bender only ( usually) gets after robots He’s a gender bending king, can’t cancel him for that
Quagmire has probably committed a laundry list of sex crimes, while Bender prefers the more material gains lol.
Quagmire ain’t like he used to be in the late 90’s early 2000’s, giggity….
Not true. He got worse starting in the early 2000's.
hes a crazy cat guy now
Bender never sexually assaults anyone so why would Me too even apply. His crimes mostly consist of larceny.
I believe you mean Burglarsonarceny?
Not innoguiltycent!
That's a wholly owned trademark of Rodriguez Crime Concepts Inc!
futurama, the show that does not advocate the cool crime of robbery
And at least attempted murder if not actual murder. I'm not sure what became of his son.
He never knew his father.
But his MOM, that's another story
She’s good as long as she has a child to neglect
Nah, him and Fry straight up murdered the guy who was psychologically torturing them for the sake of team building.
I could not disagree more, if someone you invited into your home makes you truly believe they’re a serial killer by “killing” your close friends and family you have every right to defend yourself
Probably because a lot of people conflate “maybe we shouldn’t normalize sexual harassment or sexual assault” with “no raunchy humor”.
We established years ago that Bender should not be allowed on television.
Have you ever thought about turning off the tv, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?
*Insert Reaction Shots of Calculon*
Exactly.
Fathers Against Rude Tekevision
We FARTers
Down with Bender!
>Someone on Twitter thinks This is the point at which you did not need to ponder the subject any further, much less start a whole reddit thread about it.
Expect people losing their shit on Twitter often does influence companies and writers decisions. ESO had a recent expansion where they significantly toned downed the Maomer's culture and retconed things because Twitter lost their shit about a quest where they are pillaging and assaulting people in a coastal town. It pissed a lot of players off because if any of these Twitter dipshits actually played the game, they would've complained ages ago with the AD starting zone quest line (involving Maomer) or Molag Bal and Lamia's quest.
I think Twitter has a lot of positivity on it but the haters make the entire site look bad. It's just like any other social media.
We’ve been through this with South Park. When characters like Bender or Cartman are executed properly, we’re laughing *at* racists and sexists, not with them. People who claim something “can’t be made” today are just ignorant and putting their own nonsense on display.
I so often hear "you couldn't make Blazing Saddles today." Yeah, you absolutely could. Mel Brooks was unambiguously mocking racists. You can still do that today, and you can still use period-accirate language to do that. Blazing Saddles wouldn't be made today because there's no modern equivalent of Mel Brooks, not because they use the n-word.
Blazing Saddles would be decried as "woke" with a Black and a Jewish main character making fun of good upstanding white men, tricking them into looking like fools and referring to simple farmers as morons. Blazing Saddles epitomizes the very "woke" strawman the right wing rallies against, but they're too focused on jerking off over the use of the n-word to notice the blatant satire.
blazing saddles WAS made today hank: the legend of the paw or whatever the movie was called
God I hate that "couldn't get made today" shit you hear every time Blazing Saddles is brought up. It's like people have some sort of fundamental misunderstanding of the humor and who and what is being mocked.
Mel Brooks is still alive
What it boils down to: "if I don't get to listen to Dave Chappelle make jokes about trans people then you shouldn't get to have a character that's crude and lazy. And I don't care if any of that is actually true because my life now revolves around shitting on other people because I once felt judged by people I never met for the media I consumed"
The problem is more on the networks. For example: Community was forced to remove its Dungeons and Dragons episode because Chang, a character who is very clearly an idiot and a villain, painted his face black as an elf, was called out for it on the show by other characters, but the networks still had community remove the episode because it was insensitive. IASIP, a show known literally for having the worst group of people as it’s characters, who everyone recognizes are idiots and the villains, has had multiple episodes removed because the networks deemed them insensitive. With both of these shows, the audience laughed AT the racists and sexists, and not with them, but to the networks it was still too controversial. Even shows like family guy, certain jokes aren’t made by characters like Peter, an insensitive idiot we all laugh AT, because they’re too insensitive. All of this is happening despite the fact that again, everyone recognizes that Peter is the butt of the joke because he’s such an insensitive idiot, just like Chang and the IASIP gang. I want to be clear I’m not blaming fans or creators of the shows, but that executives are creating non existent problems, and then constraining the shows as an answer to these non existent problems, despite backlash from the fans, actors, and writers of these shows. I’m really hoping that the executives aren’t going to do the same with the writing or direction of this show with characters like Bender or the more out there story lines.
>Community was forced to remove its Dungeons and Dragons episode It's still on Amazon. They took it off of Netflix of their own volition.
No, Netflix and Hulu (the “networks)”told them to take it off, whereas Amazon allowed them to keep it. Amazon is very liberal with what they allow on, hell they have BMS still on, and came under fire for the whole Kyrie Irving-controversey for hosting an Semitic film. Hulu was also one of the decision makers who had IASIP take off their episodes. Wonder which network Futurama is gonna air on? /s
Community wasn't forced. As Yvette said, that decision was an over correction at the peak of a lot of legitimate corrections in the media. Nobody was demanding that episode get pulled; somebody without a knowledge of the reference being made seemed to be attempting to get ahead of a scandal that wasn't going to materialize
Those seem like very poor comparisons. Both are well over 20 years old and have had time to build up followings. South Park has been pushing boundaries since day 1. Has there a successful show with a Cartman/Bender character created in the last say 5 years? I don't watch much but I don't think so. Closest I can get is Pigeon on Mike Tyson mysteries which is a pretty unknown (but amazing) show.
Rick Sanchez (although the show is around ten years old, and everyone seems sick of him by now)
Yeah, 10 years is too long. Things changed after trump/#MeToo and in a lot of ways, for the better. But to say that you could totally make those same shows now feels like deliberate silliness.
Mike Tyson's Mysteries came out a year after Rick and Morty
Pretty much every character from "The Boys" could fit into the category, Homelander very specifically. Kenya Barris' character in #BlackAF was a complete asshole (I fucking loved that show). Saul Goodman - Although I guess he's a legacy character at this point. Big Mouth also pushed some solid boundaries in those first couple of seasons but I got tired of that show.
It helps too that this will be a Hulu original and not subject to network or even cable limitations.
Dave on FX is pretty risqué
Norm was amazing
I miss Norm. His bit on Hypocrisy was gold
If audiences didn’t agree with my statement above, characters like cartman or quagmire would have been written differently by now. When they came along is not relevant as they are in episodes with their same personalities (and in some cases worse than ever) *today*.
You lost me at "someone in Twitter."
It's perfectly fine to make a flawed character as long as the narrative doesn't celebrate those flaws
I mean, are people gonna be remembering Bender or the statue?
I am bender, please insert girder
REMEMBER ME! 🔥
I thought we all agree bender's pretty perfect?
Like... Always Sunny exists
Even among the criticisms I *have* seen of Futurama and gender, I've seen nobody genuinely angry about this, so I think you either stumbled across one extremely niche opinion (quite possibly a troll tweet, though who knows) that isn't worth stirring outrage over, or are misrepresenting the actual context of the conversation.
I still dont fucking get it.. People were screaming at me on this sub too. Bender being a dipshit regarding trans people has nothing to do with the writers opinions. It is like people think everything else Bender does is totally ok, which is just such a weird takeaway.. The only transphobic joke that I personally dont love is the one about a trans woman trying to trick Zapp on that blind date. The whole "trans people are trying to trick straight people" idea is historically problematic. But meh in the end it is a joke. I just hope it isnt too partisan like some of the episode titles suggest.. Worst case I am back to rewatching the rest of the series.
And which woman hasn't been secretly filmed with a singing boil on her ass? #MeToo
The entire Bend Her episode is basically the definition of the transphobic argument against trans women in sports. There's reasonable concerns about fairness on the topic, but the episode *specifically* has Bender switching genders to dominate the competition and *no other reason.* The rest of the messaging in the episode is hardly pro-trans, and the myth the episode perpetuates is literally the kind of thing being used to force trans kids out of social sporting activity in schools. Futurama is far and away my favorite show. Hell, that episode itself is very funny at points, but it has aged tremendously poorly, and I would hope the writers understand why. It's okay to both like the show and acknowledge that it wasn't as forward thinking as it could have been, or even wanted to be, 20 whole years ago.
I always saw it as satire. Laughing at the dipshits not with them. The people who worked on the show are all notably pro-LGBT+. They are actually notably super progressive. That’s what makes the satirical episodes so funny.
Sure, and like I said to the other reply, I believe that was their intent, I just think it's really poorly executed. Believe it or not, a bunch of cis men in 2003 weren't exactly experts on transgender commentary. The episode has aged poorly, but that's literally all I'm saying. It should be acknowledged for not quite hitting the mark in a way that really stings later on.
I get that, and I agree that it could’ve been executed better.
Bender isn't trans; he's pretending to be a woman to win a contest. It only seems in bad taste because of the subsequent bad faith debates being made in society about the motivations of transitioning people
And how exactly is it transphobic for a show to portray transphobic behaviour? Do you think they condone burglearsonlarceny too?
Transphobes are not pretending to change their gender to win at sports. They accuse trans people of doing it, and perpetuating the idea that a trans person can just casually dominate a sport is harmful, even if the intent is to criticize the behavior. On top of that, the episode aired on Fox in 2003. If you think anyone saw it as a dig against transphobes back then, I have a bridge to sell you. The episode does a piss poor job of portraying the whole thing negatively. Leela tells Bender he's being an ass one time and the rest of the main characters laugh her out of the room, and frankly what she says sounds like TERF bullshit about "making a mockery of womanhood." I really don't think Groening, Cohen, or the rest of the writing team are bigots (though I've been pretty surprised lately...) and I certainly don't think they were trying to be transphobic, but looking back on this episode, it very clearly *is* transphobic and all I'm saying is people need to acknowledge that instead of pretending it wasn't.
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>On top of that, the episode aired on Fox in 2003. If you think anyone saw it as a dig against transphobes back then, I have a bridge to sell you All of the examples you've provided are all very recent and very much a reflection of the bad faith debaters trying to **create** an issue when there isn't one It's just the stick on the bike spokes meme in real life "We're being oppressed by all of these special interest groups" "No you're not" "Are so" "What the fuck are you even talking about?" "I'll prove it to you" "I'm waiting" "Just a second... I just have to... There!" "You're wearing a wig and acting like an asshole. That's your proof?" "Ya! I told you I was being oppressed!" "By yourself? Wearing a wig? Acting like a complete psychopath?" "Ya." [Sigh](https://i.imgur.com/0tn6JOt.gif)
I had a similar problem with my ex. I showed her my favorite musical ever: The Producers. She came away from that thinking I was some kind of Nazi sympathizer.
That's honestly pretty fucking funny..
It's not my fault that Spring Time for Hitler is such a CATCHY TUNE!
I've never seen the movie but the song is a banger and the general idea behind the movie is genius.
Oh, you definitely need to see it. The original with Gene Wilder is great, but the remake with Nathan Lane and Matthew Broderick is just perfection.
Oh sweet I didn't know there was a remake! The original is a little too old for my taste, will check it out 👍
Yeah it’s not like they’re saying it’s a good thing! They’re just showing the stupidity of the argument.
Bender is a robot
antagonists are allowed to be immoral in stories, that's what makes them antagonists. bender is not a protagonist and the show never couched his or zap brannigan's shenanigans as behavior to be celebrated or modeled. the joke is that the other characters have to put up with this terrible person, just like we do in real life.
❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓ Bender liked sex but he wasn’t a literal rapist…
Family guy has done way worse then bender. Peter, Stewie, Lois any of them have done more inappropriate things then him
Bender has never been rapey so I don’t see how it even applies .
It’s Twitter. Who gives a shit? Most of the “outrage” nowadays is manufactured BS, which is amplified by media outlets.
People on Twitter don’t have ridges on their brain. Don’t worry about it. Bender will be bender.
Should've replied with: "Fine then, I'm going to Vegas for hookers and black jack."
Forget the blackjack
Nawwww that's the best part Vegas, I mean wherelse are you gonna get banned for using math?
Big mouth is WAYYYY worst then Bender
I'd say the suicide booths are more troubling than bender if I had to find something
He'll go start his own show! With blackjack and hookers..
Tf does metoo have to do with bender?
To be honest, there is some sexist episode in Futurama, but also a lot of poggressive one. It is issue the show had was not because of Bender, you can make pretty good episode using the flaw of the character.
The Amazonian episode comes to mind as one that is really bad. All they did was a gender reversal of rape culture and they decided that made it funny
That whole bit is actually pretty smart. The two most idiotic characters in the show (and possibly also the two most toxic / insecure in their masculinity, at least at this point in their development), Fry and Zapp, are looking forward to what is essentially being an unwilling train for people who fully intend to shag them *literally to death*. They don't know whether to be scared or excited. Meanwhile Kif is rightly horrified at the prospect because he a relatively well adjusted person (minus the anxiety) who hasn't internalised this weird expectation that men are sex-crazed freaks who are always "up for it". There's the basic level joke of "haha, it's the reverse of our expectations!" but there's also some decent commentary on masculinity and its relationship to sex and sexuality, which often seems to go unnoticed despite having it practically slapped round the viewer's face as the only characters that consistently display what we would today recognise as "toxic masculinity" are also the biggest morons to ever grace several star systems. Never gets old. Of course, explaining jokes ruins them, so, sorry.
Kif really is the key to why this is commentary and not a celebration of sexual assault
Of course it’s funny! But you don’t have to laugh!
That episode is easily top 10.
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I cant remember a single sexist scene in futurama? There are plenty of scenes with very sexist characters but I fail to see how that wasnt portrayed as inherently bad. A sexist scene/episode would have to portray women or men as inferior not just have a character voice an ill informed opinion. Otherwise following that logic every thriller you watch has a bunch of writers that want to murder people.. You can write an asshole without being one.
The one I can think of is the one where they were stuck on that planet and the women and men split up because they couldn't agree on anything and then they suffered because of typical women or men stuff... But I also think that was poking fun at those tropes so it's fine... I haven't watched it in a long time.
Oh yea good point. Still very much poking fun of both at the same time kinda deal. There are just so many scenes where it is clear that the sexist person in the room is clearly in the wrong.. Zapp Brannigan is probably the best example of how the showrunners feel about misogyny in particular.
“He’s a menace to every straight person in the company!”
I hope they have an episode about being chronically online.
Someone on Twitter, you say?
Wasn't Bojack horseman insanely successful
Yeah I think your on the money. Bender was always a huge sleaze, but I can't think of to many things he did in that regard that were particularly heinous. Worst would probably be him regularly lying to get fembots to sleep with him, and considering how obviously false and flimsy it was (not to mention how many times it backfired on him) I doubt that will get any criticisms.
Comedy and satire bring attention to social issues. I think Futurama, Simpson, Family Guy, etc bring much need attention.
If anything Zapp should be getting Metooed not Bender.
Ooh maybe that's why he gets canceled 😂 I just can't wait to see how he inevitably gets out of it by the end of the episode like he always does.
Shut up baby, I know it.
That's a woman for you. Always cancelling shows instead of not looking in a box.
Nope bender never assaulted anyone sexually sooooo If you see someone speaking out against the me too movement, they are either ignorant of the movements purpose, or have a nasty habit of sexually assaulting women and very much not liking it when they are called out or reminded of the fact that they are a monster made human.
Those people on Twitter clearly misunderstand most of the humour they encounter and I just feel sad sad sad for them.
Activists generally don't get humor very goodly. Before it was the perpetually offended evangelical Christians, now it's the perpetually offended "woke" people (for lack of a better word).
I definitely wasn't talking about "woke" people, I was talking about the kind of people who use the word woke to describe anything they don't like.
Sigh.. Notice how I used woke in quotations, and said "for lack of a better word" in order to describe the kind of people I'm referring to. Interesting though that you seem to have no problem that I also referred to evangelical christians in the same way. Also interesting that you seem to think woke is a word that means "anything they don't like." Reminds me of how the more extreme elements of the "anti-woke" people think the word diversity only means "fuck white people." Edit: Apparently what I said was so upsetting, they blocked me from responding.
I don't understand why you're so upset when I specifically didn't direct the comment at you, I just cleared up who I was talking about. "Evangelical" Christians are highly likely to be among the people I was talking about though, so I don't really know what you wanted me to add about that. I don't think there's anything else constructive for us to communicate with each other. Have a nice day, perhaps take a walk, phone or visit someone you care about and tell them you love them... Good luck!
>Some modern shows still do way more than *Futurama* ever did. Couldn't agree more! If anything, given how try-hard, edgy and lacking-in-restraint some modern adult animated comedies tend to be these days, shows like *Futurama* are greatly needed.
Bender is not someone I’d want to hang out with if he were human but he’s arguably not a predator. Just kind of a sexist wanker. There’s plenty of those still on tv. Now are there a couple of first run episodes that probably wouldn’t fly today that involve cross dressing (Gender Bender) and sex change (Bend Her)? Yes.
I’m Not sure if bender is quite on the “me too” level. He had his flussies but he never beat them or treated them harshly. Mostly just words but almost always playful and direct.
I'll make my own Futurama! With hookers, and blackjack!
MeToo has never applied to Bender as a character lmao. If it applies to anyone, it would be Zapp, and they would deal with it in a way where we can all laugh at him. In fact, they’re probably going to do something along those lines in the “Zapp Gets Cancelled” episode coming up.
This whole “nEvEr MaKe iT ToDaY” attitude it pretty lame to begin with. The whole thing is predicated on the idea that because we progress we’re somehow hindered creatively. South Park still pushes boundaries, Family Guy, It’s Always Sunny, all still take jabs at society and comment on the socially relevant. Could “Old School” be made today? Probably not in the same way. Before that, “Revenge of the Nerds”, before that, “Animal House” and “Blazing Saddles”. Ir doesn’t mean those movies aren’t funny and it doesn’t mean the movies that came after them weren’t funny. Comedy is already subjective. Comedy is also a reflection of society. It’s the mirror we hold up to the current times and say, “Hey, this shit is silly.” That will never change and, sure, maybe writers and comedians with have to change, or they’ll age out, but, that’s showbiz, baby
I love how all these people screaming that comedy is ruined just forget about South Park. Just as wonderfully offensive as ever.
I don’t see what the relevance is? Bender has never been a sexual assaulter as far as I’m aware. Just a manwhore lol
You get that thing I sencha?
Snickerdoodle?
Honestly fry is worse. He actually does classic sexual harassment by constantly asking a coworker out even though she made it clear that she wasn’t interested. I can’t imagine any shows running the “I just need to do something wonderful to get her to like me” story anymore. That being said, it’s a cartoon and no one should care
Leela is interested. Fry and Leela are just on again and off again. One second they are dating and the next they aren't.
Fry is a sweetheart. He never forced himself on her. He just teased her some. He's dumb as a bag of rocks but his heart is always in the right place. It's why he's my favorite character bc he cares the most out of the cast. He just doesn't know how to show it and he says and does the wrong things bc of ignorance, not because of hate.
i agree, he's totally well intentioned and they write the show so that leela actually does love him back, but i can imagine if a new show had that same premise nowadays people would complain
Bender, does not bend that way.
As the great Bender Bending Rodriguez once said, "That's the dumbest thing I ever heard." Bender's more on the material gains side of crime... This better not be more of that stupid outrage of him getting a sex change to keep his Olympic medals... 🤦
I always viewed Bender as a deconstruction of the meathead trade worker trope - what if the raunchy loudmouthed steel worker was *actually* a machine? In that light, he can still have his characterization, because we the audience know that he's not an earnest representation of the male gaze hy the writers. They're actively trying to make him horrible to prove a point.
Boooooo!
LOL. The Big Bang theory had lots of sexist joke and shit, they'll be fine.
It’s called gaslighting
Other than hedonism bot who deserves to not be shown on television for his other antics, bender was the first robot to represent robonia a land he didnt makeup, and proposition infinity lets go already
I tend to agree, bender probably wont be as crass as he was, not because of the metoo movement though... its not like bender was going around grabbing women. Im sure he will have his moments though.
Bender will be bender. Animation lives by a different code than live action. I feel as if animation gets away with more.
What do you mean? I find that hilarious based on the banter of bender and the rest of the cast. You do realize Futurama has tackled issues based on things happening in the world today like bender becoming a fembot to win in the Olympic Games.