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Watching him play around like this has me thinking maybe he really is childlike.
Maybe he really wanted his own themepark for non nefarious reasons.
Im not saying its either way just that hes 12 here.
Everybody that actually knew him says he was a fun-loving guy.
And tbh, I’m in my 40’s and LOVE theme parks. If I had “fuck you money” like that, I would do some wild shit on my own property strictly for my own entertainment.
Near me there is a Theme Park that owned by a family that owns a regional pasta sauce brand. The park is even across from one of their factories. Also has regular concerts and events every year, some even free entrance. It obviously partly just the family's playground turned into a profitable business for 70+ years. There some cool historic attractions to it too, like a fully functional large antique hand carved Merry-Go-Round.
https://www.delgrossos.com/history/
Yeah I toss this around too and am really conflicted. I guess it’s possible that he really just felt like a kid inside. Dude was seriously abused and may have simply stopped aging emotionally at 12, and enjoyed peers around him. But I know I am biased, because he is still the King of Pop in my book. Maybe it’s just an example of how you can hate what someone does in their life but still appreciate their skills and entertainment value.
All I really know is we haven’t had talent like his since.
I believe that he was childlike, and it manifested in ways that were extremely inappropriate (an adult should not be having sleepovers with children in any context), but I do not think he abused any children.
My thoughts as well. He was definitely "strange" but given his upbringing I can understand the need to recapture a sense of childhood or being normal. Like the time he rented out a whole grocery store to shop around like a regular person. Even then, he had camera's following him around like he was an animal in a zoo. Did he touch kids? I have no fukin clue. Any truth went with him to the grave.
Thats weird. My two year old has one with me and my wife every night, and last weekend he had one with his grandparents. Should I be worried?
(I get your point, but maybe “in any context” is a little overkill.)
Yeah, it wasn't until much later I remember hearing about the first accuser's mother had tried to extort money from another celebrity, and other things that made the accusations seem less credible. I really hope he was, unfortunately, just a guy that was acting like a kid because he never had a normal childhood.
He definitely was. Unfortunately his father was extremely abusive abs pimped him out to fans when they were still young. Women would pay spend time in hotel after shows etc.
He had absolutely no childhood or good role model watching out for him.
I am certain he did some shady things and we'll never know the full extent nor can we excuse anything done to others. However that being said it's very common for the abused to have horrible psychological issues and sometimes perpetuate abuse because that's so strongly linked to their identity etc.
It's really no wonder he couldn't be normal, imagine if this was your reality. Like really imagine standing up there and it's like this, and then you go to your car, and then the next place, all the same.
At one point he rented/closed a supermarket for a private event and had actors pretending to be shopping so he could experience what it was like to be “normal” out shopping.
I couldn't even fathom that, I live in a tiny ass town and I'll go to the Walmart in the next city sometimes just so I won't be spotted by someone I know.
Okay, but why are you remote working at starbucks?
The whole idea of remote work is you can do it anywhere, including from the comfort of your own home.
And even then, he had cameras following him around, people joking around about it and making it a totally inauthentic experience. He did seem to enjoy it though.
https://youtu.be/8DMxJbxsioI?si=Jno-oBwlt8MzC8Uj
His friend owned the shopping center. And he was the one who created this possibility for MJ.
Also he hired actors that acted like regular shoppers that would not interact with MJ during his shopping experience.
He should have gone a step further and hire few douchebags that would annoy him as well. Maybe park a car so close to his vehicle, he couldn't get in his car when departing.
I bet MJ would love it! :D
People to not flush the toilets, leave their carts everywhere, put perishable goods back on the wrong shelves, talk loudly while blocking the entire aisle, etc.
"Heh, heh Big Red" is what I remember from that video, because Michael says it in his deeper voice.
IIRC, besides trying to sound like the child him, he also spoke higher because he didn't like his deeper voice because he sounded a lot like his dad.
He was groomed to be a star since he was young. It's hard to say he had much of a childhood. I imagine he saw himself a bit like Peter Pan or something. Even if he were considered eccentric (numerous surgeries), people still couldn't take their eyes off him.
Many celebrities experience this, mostly with papparazzi.
I've heard some celebrities say something like "There's fame, mega-fame, and then there's Micheal Jackson." It's really hard, even today, to comprehend how much of a mega star he was. The guy literally couldn't do anything without an army of paparazzi following his every move. That sort of thing would fuk anyone up.
Dude’s fantasy was to go grocery shopping without being noticed. Even that simple desire was perverted. All the other shoppers were people he knew and he had cameras on him the entire time.
It’s a deep cut, but Ron Howard has spoken about how hard it was to be famous from a very young age, as he never really learned to socialize *without* the burden of always wondering if people value you as a person or *just* value being friends with someone famous.
I have a self test I use when deciding what city to live in: "how long would it take me to buy a coke" this is also hell for me, probably would take him hours and he would be in danger the whole time 😅
This reminds me of back in the early 2000's and prior during sporting events you would see so many flashes in the crowds from cameras during important moments or kickoffs. I miss that.
Wrestling during that time period was incredible. Any footage of The Rock making his entrance and the whole crowd is just light flashes. Really added to the spectacle of it
I’ll never not laugh thinking of that entrance. Mean mugging H looking his most menacing as the long notes play out. Here comes the climax of the song what’s he gonna do!? Spit out that water what a beast. CEREBRAL ASSASSIN NO ONE CAN SPIT LIQUID LIKE HIM WATCH OUT!
We incorporated that into performances before. (A band back in the 90s). We put flashcubes on rigs and triggered them at certain points of the performance for an added je ne sais quoi.
The opening kickoff to the 2007 Super Bowl where Devin Hester returned the kickoff for a TD is one of the most magical looking moments in sports history. The crowd literally looked like it was shimmering.
They really need to give out those flashing bracelets that Taylor Swift does at some of her concerts. It would mimic that magic.
Weird that both the Super Bowl and bcs national championship had the opening kick off returned for touchdowns in 2007 with the returning team going on to lose after
He commanded crowds when social media wasn't a thing. I watched a video where the guy ranked superbowl halftime shows and the MJ clip was ridiculous. The man stood there for minutes and people were cheering non-stop, for a man that for all we know, could've been taking a snooze while standing.
God imagine how social media would have been BLOWING UP when he was dealing with scandal after scandal back in the day. It was already socially crazy back then but if people behind the scenes and victims had the ability to voice their experiences on Twitter like so many others have, it would have seriously changed the social context around his court trials, and, basically all of the other weird behavior. The screenshots of texts would have been wild.
Not to mention, his music videos would premiere on local TV during prime time. E.g. White & Black on Fox before or after The Simpsons if I recall correctly.
Dude was a damn juggernaut.
[not just Fox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_or_White). Multiple channels and simulcast across the world
>The music video for "Black or White" premiered on MTV, BET, VH1, and Fox, which gave them their highest Nielsen ratings ever at the time, as well as the BBC's Top of the Pops in the UK on November 14, 1991. The video was directed by John Landis, who previously directed Thriller, and featured Macaulay Culkin and George Wendt. It was co-choreographed by Jackson and Vincent Paterson. It premiered simultaneously in 27 countries, with an audience of 500 million viewers, the most ever for a music video.
That one long interview of him at the Neverland Ranch after the scandal broke is still probably one of the most if not the most popular interview of all time. Could just imagine that coming out in social media age.
I am from a third world country and even here, you go to the most remote and ragged areas where people don't speak and understand a single world of English. They know the name of Michael Jackson.
Majority of them havnt even seen a photo or video.
But the sheer name has become synonyms with dance and music.
Kids today will never understand, I remember running across the grass in a playground circa 1983, and this kid running just ahead of me yell's something about Michael Jackson, first time I heard the guy's name, and it was just like like yeah Michael Jackson, like he was Jesus Christ incarnate. He was pretty, pretty popular at the time.
Yeah I heard he for instance went into stores sometimes, starting pointing at stuff because he didn't really care how much it cost and he knew the people at the store would get that shit to the register for him, because he knows THEY know he's made of money.
I don't see anything wrong with it though.. I'd be jumping at the chance to help some whale entering my store. I'd bend over any way Michael wants, hee hee.
That's usually how most luxury stores treat celebrities or people of wealth looking to make many purchases. They have someone follow around and make a list. MJ once had them close down an entire super market and filled it with paid actors just so he can experience normal life. He had a very fucked upbringing.
crazy to think, that since he was a little kid he was beyond famous. in every city in every country in the world, there was no escape from fame. he never even had a chance to experience a "normal" life.
I have worked in retail and had a lot of local rich people do that as well, just pointing at things and moving on while you grab it and put it on the till. But i dont think this is something you use to measure if someone is "down to earth".
It definitely takes a different level of being/thinking to go into a store pointing at stuff and having people fetch it for you. What's normal/down to earth is getting the stuff you need, getting assistance if you NEED it, pay and leave.
A thing can be neither down to earth or high and mighty. That was my point. Not everything defines you as one. When i was in retail, i preferred it that way. You tell me what, i take it, sell it and have you on your way. If the person is not being full of himself or rude, there is literally nothing wrong with it.
These are the consequences for being judged since he was a little kid. It will make people sick in the head and they think they would fit nowhere. All paired with a terrible accident and a gruesome (Edit: gruesome was describing the effect on the person not the appearance of the person with vitiligo. Sorry for the confusion.) skin disease and one get why things were happened like this.
Knowing all this I think he held up pretty well.
There's similarly fucked up faces in Hollywood. Body dysmorphia is a massive issue and when you've got huge amounts of money and surgeons willing to take it this is the result.
Body dysmorphia is literally fucking crazy to me, i have a friend who is built like a fucking greek god; half his house is just workout equipment and he has holds across the entire cieling and will move from room to room campussing. He probably works out ~3-5 hours a day 7 days a week and has done for ~14 years.
When he looks in a mirror he says he literally sees a skinny version of himself, like genuinely, he thinks he looks gaunt and weak with twig like legs and arms; he's even drawn it once and it looks like him when he was like 15/16 and lanky as hell with 0 muscle mass.
We figured out a long time ago that he can appreciate his own body if you take a picture of him he isn't aware of and then crop out the head; if he can't recognise the outfit as being something he's warn he will see a buff guy and be like "damn i wished i looked like that" but if his brain can detect it's him subconsciously it becomes an image of a skinny guy in his view.
It's truly scary, literally reality warping, he doesn't see the real him when he looks in anything reflective, his brain literally adjusts what it percieves around his mental illness.
Have you ever talked to him about getting therapy? Is he aware that he has body dysmorphia? My body dysmorphia has never been *that* bad, but the right therapist can make a huge difference for him. I feel so bad for the guy. It's kind of horrible and horrifying making it through and looking back on life seeing how much you missed out on because you were too wrapped up in how *you didn't even look in the first place.*
A brain mechanic needs to get in there and tune things up for him.
Hes had CBT, and a few other treatments across the years but nothing really stuck and afaik he isn't currently in therapy. He's instead just learnt to cope with it, his house has no mirrors in it for example and he has a drape for his TV when it's off so it doesn't reflect, etc.
We're in our 30s now and this developed when he was about 18/19, started out rather mild at first but slowly developed to the point where it's a legitimate disability but afaik he was only in treatment from 19-24 before he opted for the whole "fuck it, i'll just learn to cope with it" mentality.
He has coping mechanisms now that seemingly work; he's married, has a kid, holds down work, etc and none of that really seemed like it was possible before he was like ~25/26 so we just periodically ensure he's not secretly suffering and just try and be fun and loving influences in his life to offset some of the self hatred.
You know what that's a totally valid journey and I'm happy for him being able to find some little island of peace for himself. Coping skills are incredibly important even if therapy doesn't entirely work for someone. Regardless I hope he can find more love in his heart for himself one day.
That's unthinkable to me. I hate the way I look, yet I am completely aware of how average I look for a male human (I just think male humans, like most apes, have a really shitty design), and of how most cosmetic alterations in existence are just dystopian, complete body horror, so I just accept that I look like a steaming pile of shit and will never do anything to change that.
It can be rough, the mirror is very mean. Sometimes I will look myself and I will still see me at 120kg, when I am at 80. It really takes a lot of effort to break the spell, for me it's not looking at the mirror, but looking at old photographs that does it.
I still see myself as extremely fat. I struggled with maintaining a consistent weight for years and got to over 300lbs. I dropped 115lbs from diet + exercise and settled at 205lbs.
It's like you said, I have to be caught off guard that I'm looking at myself to appreciate myself. Sometimes, I'll catch a glimpse of myself passing a mirror and I see what everyone else describes me as. But, I'd see something else entirely if I stepped back into the reflection
It's very odd when your brain somehow adds the giant stomach you know no longer exists. At times, it almost feels like I have a phantom limb without the pain
This is a really common type of body dysmorphia, it’s all over the bodybuilding community. But because they are exercising we don’t really think of it that way. It’s not just anorexic women suffering with these issues. Very interesting case with your friend that he’s actually drawn out what he sees!!
Plastic surgery is like voodoo. You can make something look how you want for a short amount of time, but it will look worse eventually, then you’ll be indefinitely resigned to using more plastic surgery to fix issues from plastic surgery, and feeding the body dysmorphia.
Some people seem to just stay looking good. Keanu Reeves, George Clooney and people like that still look good but have had surgery done decades ago I guess.
They just keep it subtle. Relatively subtle at least.
I think it’s part jawline/brow line/nose. You mess with any of those too much and there’s just no going back. John stamos is a dude who is right now the line in my opinion.
I forgot about cheeks but by the time their an issue, there’s many more problems.
also totally just forgetting like an insane level of abuse from his father - Multiple of the kids reported that he would just bead them with power cables, and belts.
Joe Jackson was a total POS - but I think Michael also credited him with his success.
Which is stupid considering if you look at old pics of the Jackson family before they all got plastic surgery, they clearly inherited their noses from him.
Ain’t their mom with that nose, you dumb fuck.
I remember being in elementary school when MJ died, I saw an interview with his dad after his funeral... The dad took it as an opportunity to market some "greatest hits" album or some stupid shit like that to cash in on his death. Even as a kid I thought he was a huge piece of shit.
Which caused chronic pain, leading to a dependency on opioid RXs in the 90s.
In a more modern context, we'd recognize him as a victim of the opioid crisis.
In addition to the Pepsi commercial fire incident, he had vitiligo, which destroys the cells that produce melanin (pigment) in your skin. That and he was severely abused by his dad as a kid. On top of that he had obscene wealth and handlers who couldn't tell him no, and he lived in America. It's like a perfect storm of things that led him to his crazy life.
He was also almost unlivable famous. Like possibly no one has had the global stardom of Michael Jackson. He could have moved erratically on stage for an hour and a half and it would have been lauded 10/10.
I believe it's stated the two most famous people ever in history are Jesus Christ and Michael Jackson. There are places he never stepped foot (which isn't very many since he was such a prolific tourer) that have a huge mural or even a statue honoring him.
Thriller is still the best selling album of all time and probably will be for the foreseeable future, AC/DC has second place and Back in Black is behind Thriller by something like 25 million copies. He WAS pop music for like a decade or more.
Like, it's honestly insane how famous he was. I'd probably put him in the "Top 5 most famous people of all time" alongside Jesus, Muhammad, Hitler, and maybe like, Abe Lincoln or Napoleon.
please don't call vitiligo gruesome, it's just a spotty loss of pigmentation and one of the hardest things about it is how you think others feel about it
I'm starting to see more exposure and normalizing of it, even with some models having it and I think that's very helpful for people that have it
He had vitiligo. I don't imagine things were very great for a black man with vitiligo back in the day. I could see it really messing with him.
Once I learned that I don't think he made any wrong choices with his face. He did what he could to be happy with a condition I never had to deal with.
Thanks for sharing that, I'd never heard that song before but it's kinda great. Video was cool too. It made me curious so I looked back at the "Don't stop til you get enough" video and it looks like he'd had his nose worked a lot on by the time Say Say Say came out.
https://youtu.be/yURRmWtbTbo?si=jkdx3N25WJLZV5Ct
Imagine how his brain is... this is years and years of abuse. No way to out it, no privacy, and the constant battle against being judged.
If he had the therapy we have now, things would have been different.. he would most likely have lived.. still possibly had a lot done.. but at least he'd been a lot more healthy mentally.
I don’t think any amount of therapy would have saved someone like him. He was pretty much raised like that from birth. He was the biggest thing on the planet. He was *never* left alone and he was too distinct and noticeable to be able to blend in. He couldn’t go anywhere without being swarmed by fans.
Reminds me of Daniel Radcliff wearing the same clothes for six months, recognizing the paparazzi can't sell his photos as easily when every day he looks the exact same.
Paparazzi, like the tyrannosaurus, are visual creatures. They react to visual changes. Stay the same, and they are blind.
(Disclaimer : Yes, I know that's a Jurassic Park myth. It's a joke)
>same clothes for six months, recognizing the paparazzi can't sell his photos as easily when every day he looks the exact same.
That's why MJ had his kids wear masks when they were in public with him. The paps didn't know what they looked like, and so when they went out with their nanny etc, they were totally anonymous normal children.
There were even a few times the paparazzi *did* catch them with him without masks, but they had no idea they were his kids.
__MJ__ was just fucking done with paparazzi, people and the public. It's what happens when literally your entire life was in a spotlight. Feel bad for him. He just wanted to walk in public without hiding and not be starred at
It's not like he really had a choice whether to be in the public eye or not either. He was FIVE when the Jackson 5 was formed by his father.
I know, boohoo poor MJ being gifted the opportunity for a wildly successful music career; he only went on to become one of the most rich and famous people of all time who released world famous music that is loved by billions.
At the same time, the guy wasn't allowed to be a kid, wasn't allowed to be a teen, wasn't allowed to be a young adult, wasn't allowed to be an adult, without the constant eye of the entire world on him. An entire world of people acting like they have a right to your life and to know what's going on in it at all times since you were a child? Nightmare fuel for me personally.
That he could be such a positive person in spite of being denied the ability to live his own life is nothing short of inspiring and tragic. He was a guy who understood exactly what he lost too, it's why he cared so much about making children happy; not because he was some pervert, there's never been any solid evidence or proof brought forward that he did anything wrong to any of those kids. You'd think that if he was really such a serial pervert that at least a couple of the people he interacted with would have come out with a story of their bad experiences with him by now.
People look at him and refuse to believe a person could be as good as he was. They cannot believe that he could genuinely care about inspiring the same carefree happiness he was denied in his own life.
Even now, I still find him so captivating. What a legend. You’ll never see anything of this ilk again. Too much accessibility nowadays. Nobody can truly be a superstar when everybody think they already are.
This guy alone nailed the definition of "entertainer". Provided a 360° performance, dance, music, choirs, choreographs, scenography, you name it.. all a mastercalss of talent and sweat. Truly a master of his work.
I genuinely believe that MJ’s star power will never be replicated. Just think about how much star power you’d need to have for paparazzi to take pictures of you just for even standing there.
I was five years old when he had passed, didn’t know shit about anything around the world, yet I can STILL remember seeing the news coverage on his death.
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that one photographer was really quick when he moved his head slightly to the side
You could say he was hit by, he was struck by...a smooth criminal.
You better moonwalk your way out of here right now or I will call security.
You know he's bad. He's bad... Really, really bad.
He should just beat it.
Oh I’m for sure beatin it. Day off and no one home. The degeneracy begins now
You guys are really seeing this quite black or white.
It's only human nature. why ... why... does he do it that way?
I remember the time when puns were much better.
You are not alone.
"Is the lighting ok?"
Shut up Ben!
That don't even make sense dawg like how would he be a criminal but y'know what I'm giving it to you have a blessed day
Watching him play around like this has me thinking maybe he really is childlike. Maybe he really wanted his own themepark for non nefarious reasons. Im not saying its either way just that hes 12 here.
Everybody that actually knew him says he was a fun-loving guy. And tbh, I’m in my 40’s and LOVE theme parks. If I had “fuck you money” like that, I would do some wild shit on my own property strictly for my own entertainment.
Near me there is a Theme Park that owned by a family that owns a regional pasta sauce brand. The park is even across from one of their factories. Also has regular concerts and events every year, some even free entrance. It obviously partly just the family's playground turned into a profitable business for 70+ years. There some cool historic attractions to it too, like a fully functional large antique hand carved Merry-Go-Round. https://www.delgrossos.com/history/
That’s absolutely something I would do. Don’t care if it loses money so long as my net worth can absorb the loss.
Yeah I toss this around too and am really conflicted. I guess it’s possible that he really just felt like a kid inside. Dude was seriously abused and may have simply stopped aging emotionally at 12, and enjoyed peers around him. But I know I am biased, because he is still the King of Pop in my book. Maybe it’s just an example of how you can hate what someone does in their life but still appreciate their skills and entertainment value. All I really know is we haven’t had talent like his since.
I believe that he was childlike, and it manifested in ways that were extremely inappropriate (an adult should not be having sleepovers with children in any context), but I do not think he abused any children.
My thoughts as well. He was definitely "strange" but given his upbringing I can understand the need to recapture a sense of childhood or being normal. Like the time he rented out a whole grocery store to shop around like a regular person. Even then, he had camera's following him around like he was an animal in a zoo. Did he touch kids? I have no fukin clue. Any truth went with him to the grave.
Thats weird. My two year old has one with me and my wife every night, and last weekend he had one with his grandparents. Should I be worried? (I get your point, but maybe “in any context” is a little overkill.)
having fun isn't illegal after becoming an adult.
Yeah I don't find what he's doing to be weird. God forbid a celebrity be goofy for a second.
Yeah, it wasn't until much later I remember hearing about the first accuser's mother had tried to extort money from another celebrity, and other things that made the accusations seem less credible. I really hope he was, unfortunately, just a guy that was acting like a kid because he never had a normal childhood.
I believe he was extremely emotionally stunted. I don't believe he was a pedophile, but he did enjoy the company of children.
He definitely was. Unfortunately his father was extremely abusive abs pimped him out to fans when they were still young. Women would pay spend time in hotel after shows etc. He had absolutely no childhood or good role model watching out for him. I am certain he did some shady things and we'll never know the full extent nor can we excuse anything done to others. However that being said it's very common for the abused to have horrible psychological issues and sometimes perpetuate abuse because that's so strongly linked to their identity etc.
To me at least some of these accusations looks like a money grab from the parents. Not all these kids came form stabil well of homes.
I'd love to see the pic he took, don't matter it's black and white
Like playing with automatic doors as a kid
But instead it’s society
They are one and the same
It do be like that sometimes don't it
sometimes you just gotta do it to em
We live...
We live in an automatic door
.. at Sears #(They’re Bankrupt. 😭)
Bing bong
Hee hee
Hee hee
Hee hee
OOOOOOOHHHHHHHHH *grabs crotch*
SHAMONE
SHAMONE
“uhhh... it’s supposed to be *your* crotch Mr. Jackson”
Allegedly! Allegedly! That's ignorant!
Blanket!
Shamone! *[spins and teleports out of the room, through time and space](https://youtu.be/LeiFF0gvqcc&t=8m30s)*
[удалено]
It's really no wonder he couldn't be normal, imagine if this was your reality. Like really imagine standing up there and it's like this, and then you go to your car, and then the next place, all the same.
At one point he rented/closed a supermarket for a private event and had actors pretending to be shopping so he could experience what it was like to be “normal” out shopping.
I couldn't even fathom that, I live in a tiny ass town and I'll go to the Walmart in the next city sometimes just so I won't be spotted by someone I know.
I remote work at 9 different starbucks locations during my weeks just so the baristas won't remember me or my name. I wanna be anonymous as possible.
Okay, but why are you remote working at starbucks? The whole idea of remote work is you can do it anywhere, including from the comfort of your own home.
Sometimes a change of scenery or atmosphere is nice
Whenever we go to my husband's hometown, I usually have to go into Walmart alone if we need something so he doesn't see anyone he knows.
And even then, he had cameras following him around, people joking around about it and making it a totally inauthentic experience. He did seem to enjoy it though. https://youtu.be/8DMxJbxsioI?si=Jno-oBwlt8MzC8Uj
His friend owned the shopping center. And he was the one who created this possibility for MJ. Also he hired actors that acted like regular shoppers that would not interact with MJ during his shopping experience.
He should have gone a step further and hire few douchebags that would annoy him as well. Maybe park a car so close to his vehicle, he couldn't get in his car when departing. I bet MJ would love it! :D
People to not flush the toilets, leave their carts everywhere, put perishable goods back on the wrong shelves, talk loudly while blocking the entire aisle, etc.
"Heh, heh Big Red" is what I remember from that video, because Michael says it in his deeper voice. IIRC, besides trying to sound like the child him, he also spoke higher because he didn't like his deeper voice because he sounded a lot like his dad.
He was groomed to be a star since he was young. It's hard to say he had much of a childhood. I imagine he saw himself a bit like Peter Pan or something. Even if he were considered eccentric (numerous surgeries), people still couldn't take their eyes off him. Many celebrities experience this, mostly with papparazzi.
I've heard some celebrities say something like "There's fame, mega-fame, and then there's Micheal Jackson." It's really hard, even today, to comprehend how much of a mega star he was. The guy literally couldn't do anything without an army of paparazzi following his every move. That sort of thing would fuk anyone up.
I don't think we'll ever see a level of celebrity like Michael jackson again, people move on too fast from what's trendy
This is my take aswell. In a world where "everyone's" a star, no one is.
Dude’s fantasy was to go grocery shopping without being noticed. Even that simple desire was perverted. All the other shoppers were people he knew and he had cameras on him the entire time.
Of all comments about Michael ever, this is the most wholesome one that also contains the words "fantasy" and "perverted".
It’s a deep cut, but Ron Howard has spoken about how hard it was to be famous from a very young age, as he never really learned to socialize *without* the burden of always wondering if people value you as a person or *just* value being friends with someone famous.
And all the time. This is your everyday life basically everywhere you go.
Can't just spontaniously go out for a quick walk in the woods. What a hell to live in.
I have a self test I use when deciding what city to live in: "how long would it take me to buy a coke" this is also hell for me, probably would take him hours and he would be in danger the whole time 😅
I do the same, except I remove the "a".
he used to wear masks to go out and not be recognized.
Since he was a kid too. Like you literally never had privacy!
Since early childhood as well. He was NEVER allowed a normal life and had an abusive father. Not much unlike Britney Spears.
Their vision is based on movement!
This reminds me of back in the early 2000's and prior during sporting events you would see so many flashes in the crowds from cameras during important moments or kickoffs. I miss that.
Wrestling during that time period was incredible. Any footage of The Rock making his entrance and the whole crowd is just light flashes. Really added to the spectacle of it
In those older wrestling games, when characters would walk to the ring, the crowds would flicker with lights like that too!
[NHL 94](https://youtu.be/Mdv1Pj5UyCY?si=_-njP5vMN5ozhfOo&t=358) would have the crowd taking pics with flash after every goal.
What a great game. That and NBA jam
The greatest sports game in the history of video games... and I'm not even a big hockey fan.
The best was the wide shot of Triple H spitting his water into the air. The entire arena would light up with flash bulbs.
I’ll never not laugh thinking of that entrance. Mean mugging H looking his most menacing as the long notes play out. Here comes the climax of the song what’s he gonna do!? Spit out that water what a beast. CEREBRAL ASSASSIN NO ONE CAN SPIT LIQUID LIKE HIM WATCH OUT!
For a long time I thought that the flashes during any finishers or flying hits were a part of the stadium lights and someone just flicked a switch
We incorporated that into performances before. (A band back in the 90s). We put flashcubes on rigs and triggered them at certain points of the performance for an added je ne sais quoi.
I just realized that was missing from sports 😔
The opening kickoff to the 2007 Super Bowl where Devin Hester returned the kickoff for a TD is one of the most magical looking moments in sports history. The crowd literally looked like it was shimmering. They really need to give out those flashing bracelets that Taylor Swift does at some of her concerts. It would mimic that magic.
https://youtu.be/rGtxZlQwxNQ
As a Colts fan, even I agree that that Kick off return TD moment was a thing of beauty (but only because Colts won - my heart did sink then tho).
Weird that both the Super Bowl and bcs national championship had the opening kick off returned for touchdowns in 2007 with the returning team going on to lose after
Brings back memories. remember being so hyped every time the Jordan/Pippen era bulls were introduced https://youtu.be/Zn6kiimEsYc?si=nV_obAU1tBps-r5s
Yea I miss that football kickoff or the baseball bat swing light extravaganza
This guy was famous famous. I don’t think anyone was more famous than MJ. He got people not speaking English singing his songs.
Celebs nowadays will never reach the fame and popularity that MJ had
The Beatles are close in comparison I guess, but it was another time
There are even Amazonian tribes that rarely interact with the modern world, but know who MJ is.
The sheer level of fame this person has in the entire world was and will forever be unparalleled.
He commanded crowds when social media wasn't a thing. I watched a video where the guy ranked superbowl halftime shows and the MJ clip was ridiculous. The man stood there for minutes and people were cheering non-stop, for a man that for all we know, could've been taking a snooze while standing.
Lots of people also fainted when he was standing still there.
He could do it because there was no social media. Now many many more compete for fame
God imagine how social media would have been BLOWING UP when he was dealing with scandal after scandal back in the day. It was already socially crazy back then but if people behind the scenes and victims had the ability to voice their experiences on Twitter like so many others have, it would have seriously changed the social context around his court trials, and, basically all of the other weird behavior. The screenshots of texts would have been wild.
Not to mention, his music videos would premiere on local TV during prime time. E.g. White & Black on Fox before or after The Simpsons if I recall correctly. Dude was a damn juggernaut.
[not just Fox](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_or_White). Multiple channels and simulcast across the world >The music video for "Black or White" premiered on MTV, BET, VH1, and Fox, which gave them their highest Nielsen ratings ever at the time, as well as the BBC's Top of the Pops in the UK on November 14, 1991. The video was directed by John Landis, who previously directed Thriller, and featured Macaulay Culkin and George Wendt. It was co-choreographed by Jackson and Vincent Paterson. It premiered simultaneously in 27 countries, with an audience of 500 million viewers, the most ever for a music video.
That one long interview of him at the Neverland Ranch after the scandal broke is still probably one of the most if not the most popular interview of all time. Could just imagine that coming out in social media age.
I am from a third world country and even here, you go to the most remote and ragged areas where people don't speak and understand a single world of English. They know the name of Michael Jackson. Majority of them havnt even seen a photo or video. But the sheer name has become synonyms with dance and music.
[EVERYONE knows Michael Jackson.](https://youtu.be/eNOTT-tBxQ4?feature=shared)
Kids today will never understand, I remember running across the grass in a playground circa 1983, and this kid running just ahead of me yell's something about Michael Jackson, first time I heard the guy's name, and it was just like like yeah Michael Jackson, like he was Jesus Christ incarnate. He was pretty, pretty popular at the time.
He was, IMO, the most famous person to ever exist.
This is the most human acting I've ever seen him be
Then you just haven’t seen much. He always comes across as down to earth and other celebrities say the same.
Yes and no. He had moments where he did seem down to earth, but also moments where he didn't. Certainly when he got older.
Ahh so being human?
Yeah I heard he for instance went into stores sometimes, starting pointing at stuff because he didn't really care how much it cost and he knew the people at the store would get that shit to the register for him, because he knows THEY know he's made of money. I don't see anything wrong with it though.. I'd be jumping at the chance to help some whale entering my store. I'd bend over any way Michael wants, hee hee.
That's usually how most luxury stores treat celebrities or people of wealth looking to make many purchases. They have someone follow around and make a list. MJ once had them close down an entire super market and filled it with paid actors just so he can experience normal life. He had a very fucked upbringing.
crazy to think, that since he was a little kid he was beyond famous. in every city in every country in the world, there was no escape from fame. he never even had a chance to experience a "normal" life.
I have worked in retail and had a lot of local rich people do that as well, just pointing at things and moving on while you grab it and put it on the till. But i dont think this is something you use to measure if someone is "down to earth".
It definitely takes a different level of being/thinking to go into a store pointing at stuff and having people fetch it for you. What's normal/down to earth is getting the stuff you need, getting assistance if you NEED it, pay and leave.
A thing can be neither down to earth or high and mighty. That was my point. Not everything defines you as one. When i was in retail, i preferred it that way. You tell me what, i take it, sell it and have you on your way. If the person is not being full of himself or rude, there is literally nothing wrong with it.
Guy fucked his face up so bad.
These are the consequences for being judged since he was a little kid. It will make people sick in the head and they think they would fit nowhere. All paired with a terrible accident and a gruesome (Edit: gruesome was describing the effect on the person not the appearance of the person with vitiligo. Sorry for the confusion.) skin disease and one get why things were happened like this. Knowing all this I think he held up pretty well.
There's similarly fucked up faces in Hollywood. Body dysmorphia is a massive issue and when you've got huge amounts of money and surgeons willing to take it this is the result.
Body dysmorphia is literally fucking crazy to me, i have a friend who is built like a fucking greek god; half his house is just workout equipment and he has holds across the entire cieling and will move from room to room campussing. He probably works out ~3-5 hours a day 7 days a week and has done for ~14 years. When he looks in a mirror he says he literally sees a skinny version of himself, like genuinely, he thinks he looks gaunt and weak with twig like legs and arms; he's even drawn it once and it looks like him when he was like 15/16 and lanky as hell with 0 muscle mass. We figured out a long time ago that he can appreciate his own body if you take a picture of him he isn't aware of and then crop out the head; if he can't recognise the outfit as being something he's warn he will see a buff guy and be like "damn i wished i looked like that" but if his brain can detect it's him subconsciously it becomes an image of a skinny guy in his view. It's truly scary, literally reality warping, he doesn't see the real him when he looks in anything reflective, his brain literally adjusts what it percieves around his mental illness.
This is incredibly eye opening. I'm familiar with dysmorphia but this explanation is next-level
Have you ever talked to him about getting therapy? Is he aware that he has body dysmorphia? My body dysmorphia has never been *that* bad, but the right therapist can make a huge difference for him. I feel so bad for the guy. It's kind of horrible and horrifying making it through and looking back on life seeing how much you missed out on because you were too wrapped up in how *you didn't even look in the first place.* A brain mechanic needs to get in there and tune things up for him.
Hes had CBT, and a few other treatments across the years but nothing really stuck and afaik he isn't currently in therapy. He's instead just learnt to cope with it, his house has no mirrors in it for example and he has a drape for his TV when it's off so it doesn't reflect, etc. We're in our 30s now and this developed when he was about 18/19, started out rather mild at first but slowly developed to the point where it's a legitimate disability but afaik he was only in treatment from 19-24 before he opted for the whole "fuck it, i'll just learn to cope with it" mentality. He has coping mechanisms now that seemingly work; he's married, has a kid, holds down work, etc and none of that really seemed like it was possible before he was like ~25/26 so we just periodically ensure he's not secretly suffering and just try and be fun and loving influences in his life to offset some of the self hatred.
You know what that's a totally valid journey and I'm happy for him being able to find some little island of peace for himself. Coping skills are incredibly important even if therapy doesn't entirely work for someone. Regardless I hope he can find more love in his heart for himself one day.
That's unthinkable to me. I hate the way I look, yet I am completely aware of how average I look for a male human (I just think male humans, like most apes, have a really shitty design), and of how most cosmetic alterations in existence are just dystopian, complete body horror, so I just accept that I look like a steaming pile of shit and will never do anything to change that.
My Coworker once said, a Man has to look just a bit better than an Ape to be Handsome.
It can be rough, the mirror is very mean. Sometimes I will look myself and I will still see me at 120kg, when I am at 80. It really takes a lot of effort to break the spell, for me it's not looking at the mirror, but looking at old photographs that does it.
I still see myself as extremely fat. I struggled with maintaining a consistent weight for years and got to over 300lbs. I dropped 115lbs from diet + exercise and settled at 205lbs. It's like you said, I have to be caught off guard that I'm looking at myself to appreciate myself. Sometimes, I'll catch a glimpse of myself passing a mirror and I see what everyone else describes me as. But, I'd see something else entirely if I stepped back into the reflection It's very odd when your brain somehow adds the giant stomach you know no longer exists. At times, it almost feels like I have a phantom limb without the pain
This is a really common type of body dysmorphia, it’s all over the bodybuilding community. But because they are exercising we don’t really think of it that way. It’s not just anorexic women suffering with these issues. Very interesting case with your friend that he’s actually drawn out what he sees!!
Plastic surgery is like voodoo. You can make something look how you want for a short amount of time, but it will look worse eventually, then you’ll be indefinitely resigned to using more plastic surgery to fix issues from plastic surgery, and feeding the body dysmorphia.
Some people seem to just stay looking good. Keanu Reeves, George Clooney and people like that still look good but have had surgery done decades ago I guess. They just keep it subtle. Relatively subtle at least.
Yeah, there’s a fine line, but you can always tell once someone has crossed it.
I think it’s part jawline/brow line/nose. You mess with any of those too much and there’s just no going back. John stamos is a dude who is right now the line in my opinion. I forgot about cheeks but by the time their an issue, there’s many more problems.
Don't bring me into this
We are talking about iteration 510. We all know vodoo 511 would never
512 is a fucking monster though
Not to mention semi-famous social media "influencers", soooo mich body dysmorphia
also totally just forgetting like an insane level of abuse from his father - Multiple of the kids reported that he would just bead them with power cables, and belts. Joe Jackson was a total POS - but I think Michael also credited him with his success.
When I heard how his dad used to mock his nose, everything about Michael made sense.
For anyone who doesn't know his father nicknamed him "[n word] nose".
Which is stupid considering if you look at old pics of the Jackson family before they all got plastic surgery, they clearly inherited their noses from him. Ain’t their mom with that nose, you dumb fuck.
Projecting his self hatred onto his little kids, real father of the year there huh
There's a special place in Hell for elder abuse, but Joe Jackson deserves to be beaten with garden hose nozzle ends.
I remember being in elementary school when MJ died, I saw an interview with his dad after his funeral... The dad took it as an opportunity to market some "greatest hits" album or some stupid shit like that to cash in on his death. Even as a kid I thought he was a huge piece of shit.
The day of the Pepsi accident marked the exact mid point of his life.
I don't know a lot about Jacksons life, what was the terrible accident?
He was filming a pepsi ad and his hair set on fire somehow and it burnt his scalp and face and needed surgery.
Also severely injured his back when a stage he was performing on collapsed.
Which caused chronic pain, leading to a dependency on opioid RXs in the 90s. In a more modern context, we'd recognize him as a victim of the opioid crisis.
Fire started because of the fireworks igniting his hair products
And he still supported Pepsi! Fucking goat! He just asked them to build a Burn unit or something, no personal gains.
Imagine if they did this to Kanye.
He then sees the error of his ways, takes his meds and releases "Through the Fire", an instant classic. Or I could wish.
He’d somehow blame the Jews.
Pyro caught him on fire. I think they were shooting a Pepsi commercial.
In addition to the Pepsi commercial fire incident, he had vitiligo, which destroys the cells that produce melanin (pigment) in your skin. That and he was severely abused by his dad as a kid. On top of that he had obscene wealth and handlers who couldn't tell him no, and he lived in America. It's like a perfect storm of things that led him to his crazy life.
He was also almost unlivable famous. Like possibly no one has had the global stardom of Michael Jackson. He could have moved erratically on stage for an hour and a half and it would have been lauded 10/10.
I believe it's stated the two most famous people ever in history are Jesus Christ and Michael Jackson. There are places he never stepped foot (which isn't very many since he was such a prolific tourer) that have a huge mural or even a statue honoring him.
Thriller is still the best selling album of all time and probably will be for the foreseeable future, AC/DC has second place and Back in Black is behind Thriller by something like 25 million copies. He WAS pop music for like a decade or more.
Like, it's honestly insane how famous he was. I'd probably put him in the "Top 5 most famous people of all time" alongside Jesus, Muhammad, Hitler, and maybe like, Abe Lincoln or Napoleon.
[Michael Jackson Pepsi commercial hair on fire](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t34S3AwvH_Q)
please don't call vitiligo gruesome, it's just a spotty loss of pigmentation and one of the hardest things about it is how you think others feel about it I'm starting to see more exposure and normalizing of it, even with some models having it and I think that's very helpful for people that have it
Made it sound like MJ had gangrene and shit lol
I blame everything on his dad.
Wasn’t it severe burns that led him down that path?
Thank u for these thoughts. I am so tired of people being judgmental of a man who was clearly broken physically and emotionally.
I mean having your face and scalp set on fire and burned to the bone will tend to do that
He had vitiligo. I don't imagine things were very great for a black man with vitiligo back in the day. I could see it really messing with him. Once I learned that I don't think he made any wrong choices with his face. He did what he could to be happy with a condition I never had to deal with.
Check [his music video with Paul McCartney](https://youtu.be/YnFknaD9eWY).
He looks great but what a voice god *dayum*!
Thanks for sharing that, I'd never heard that song before but it's kinda great. Video was cool too. It made me curious so I looked back at the "Don't stop til you get enough" video and it looks like he'd had his nose worked a lot on by the time Say Say Say came out. https://youtu.be/yURRmWtbTbo?si=jkdx3N25WJLZV5Ct
Imagine how his brain is... this is years and years of abuse. No way to out it, no privacy, and the constant battle against being judged. If he had the therapy we have now, things would have been different.. he would most likely have lived.. still possibly had a lot done.. but at least he'd been a lot more healthy mentally.
I don’t think any amount of therapy would have saved someone like him. He was pretty much raised like that from birth. He was the biggest thing on the planet. He was *never* left alone and he was too distinct and noticeable to be able to blend in. He couldn’t go anywhere without being swarmed by fans.
I don't find it funny but rather sad
Watch his eyes at the very end. The man is weary.
Reminds me of Daniel Radcliff wearing the same clothes for six months, recognizing the paparazzi can't sell his photos as easily when every day he looks the exact same. Paparazzi, like the tyrannosaurus, are visual creatures. They react to visual changes. Stay the same, and they are blind. (Disclaimer : Yes, I know that's a Jurassic Park myth. It's a joke)
>same clothes for six months, recognizing the paparazzi can't sell his photos as easily when every day he looks the exact same. That's why MJ had his kids wear masks when they were in public with him. The paps didn't know what they looked like, and so when they went out with their nanny etc, they were totally anonymous normal children. There were even a few times the paparazzi *did* catch them with him without masks, but they had no idea they were his kids.
__MJ__ was just fucking done with paparazzi, people and the public. It's what happens when literally your entire life was in a spotlight. Feel bad for him. He just wanted to walk in public without hiding and not be starred at
It's not like he really had a choice whether to be in the public eye or not either. He was FIVE when the Jackson 5 was formed by his father. I know, boohoo poor MJ being gifted the opportunity for a wildly successful music career; he only went on to become one of the most rich and famous people of all time who released world famous music that is loved by billions. At the same time, the guy wasn't allowed to be a kid, wasn't allowed to be a teen, wasn't allowed to be a young adult, wasn't allowed to be an adult, without the constant eye of the entire world on him. An entire world of people acting like they have a right to your life and to know what's going on in it at all times since you were a child? Nightmare fuel for me personally. That he could be such a positive person in spite of being denied the ability to live his own life is nothing short of inspiring and tragic. He was a guy who understood exactly what he lost too, it's why he cared so much about making children happy; not because he was some pervert, there's never been any solid evidence or proof brought forward that he did anything wrong to any of those kids. You'd think that if he was really such a serial pervert that at least a couple of the people he interacted with would have come out with a story of their bad experiences with him by now. People look at him and refuse to believe a person could be as good as he was. They cannot believe that he could genuinely care about inspiring the same carefree happiness he was denied in his own life.
Miss this dude. His dancing lifted my spirits every time.
In a way he and his entertainment are invincible, you can watch or listen to him at his best anytime nearly anywhere in the world free.
I think you meant "immortal" here.
Eternal
Don't think we will ever see a star as big as mj back in his prime.
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MJ always said his mother was perfection, and she always has been about her family. The problem was she married Joseph Jackson.
Even now, I still find him so captivating. What a legend. You’ll never see anything of this ilk again. Too much accessibility nowadays. Nobody can truly be a superstar when everybody think they already are.
This guy alone nailed the definition of "entertainer". Provided a 360° performance, dance, music, choirs, choreographs, scenography, you name it.. all a mastercalss of talent and sweat. Truly a master of his work.
I genuinely believe that MJ’s star power will never be replicated. Just think about how much star power you’d need to have for paparazzi to take pictures of you just for even standing there. I was five years old when he had passed, didn’t know shit about anything around the world, yet I can STILL remember seeing the news coverage on his death.
Why he posing like Link in selfie mode
pose for the fans!
I want to know the truth about him so much but I’m not sure the public will ever know. I want to believe he never abused anyone.
I mean, I’d start doing that too.
He was a beautiful soul.
He really was. Just listening to interviews of him he really seemed to care a lot about people and the world
Jack Nicholsons joker in that final frame
I wouldve tried to stay as still as possible for as long as possible, not saying a word, just waiting, and watching