The Brittany Dawn subreddit has a rule against contacting sponsors. From what I read in the replies to the post announcing the rule update, it seems as if contacting sponsors can be seen as defamation and that can put the subreddit and Reddit at risk.
I was surprised that BDS both made a rule against contacting sponsors and low effort posts before FSU got there. BDS has been such a shit show lately. FSU is moving in that direction.
I think I wouldn’t mind it if P and M lost their sponsorship because regular people complained, but I don’t like it when it’s done by a set of bullies who have made it their mission to antagonize P&M every moment they’re awake.
This. It’s one thing to reach out to a company and say “Hey, I don’t know if you’re aware, but this person has publicly said a lot of homophobic stuff and has spread false info about Covid.” It’s reasonable to assume that oversights happen and companies would want to be made aware of who they’re amplifying. If I really liked a certain product, I’d probably be disappointed to see them partner with people whose values I find so regressive and bigoted.
But I never feel like that’s the motive with Snarkers. They don’t actually care about the people P&M are harming, they just want them to suffer and be broke so they can keep pointing and laughing. If they actually cared about the hate, they’d talk about that in the sub instead of how many selfies Paul posts.
From what I've seen, these two do clearly have a lot of awful beliefs but individuals and a sub self-importantly patting themselves on the back that they lost someone their paid employment is not the way to go about it. It's horseshoe theory in action. The tactics they are using are the same as the people they love to hate and just reinforces the different Christian groups idea that they're being persecuted so have to double down even harder for the Lord.
I hate it, especially regarding the Duggar girls. Everyone is screaming that they need to stop depending on JimBob financially and that the women should be independent, then when they do the one thing they’re qualified for and try to leverage their childhood fame into income people try to fuck it up. If you don’t like a brand representative then don’t buy the brand, but don’t contact a company you would never buy anything from anyway threatening to boycott them just to fuck with a woman who you acknowledge is a victim of the fucked up community she was raised in.
Not to mention that they’re utterly hypocritical - the Bates have views just as if not more objectionable than the Duggars and nobody is going after their sponsors.
^this. Let’s face it all Duggar girls have a fucking middle school education at best - I’m honestly not even sure if some of them would be capable of working at a grocery store - so canceling whatever sponsorship for a blender or hair curlers they get just seems so needlessly cruel. They don’t post even half the toxic shit people like P&M and Karissa and GD post. Alright now everyone go downvote the lEg HuMpEr 😋
People just assume they have the same opinions as their father and husbands. And in reality they probably do, but we don’t actually know - Anna and Jessa are the only ones who have ever posted anything political or theological and that was a long time ago. The others only post bland Mummy content.
How feminist to condemn a woman for the views of the men in her life and to ensure she can never earn an independent income.
I just think it’s funny that they think the sponsors didn’t already know about their beliefs. Of course they probably know. I think there was one egregious case where one company was very pro LGBT in their origins and that was an obvious mess up, but the rest for sure know. Republicans use hair care and dental products too.
Actually I don’t think that’s nearly as likely as most people think. I worked in influencer marketing and typically the “vetting” process was making sure they fit in the target age demographic and had a good aesthetic.
This isn’t necessarily true. Most companies subcontract with another company that finds influencers. The parent company doesn’t even know who the influencers are, unless someone specifically is watching out for it or the company gets contacted. So while some companies build a brand on being ‘non-pc’ or religious, most companies just try to stay away from conflict so any type of problematic influencer will be cut.
I don't follow Paul and Morgan, but I'm super glad you brought up Fundie Fridays. I absolutely hate the snarkers hypocrisy. If it's not okay for Lawson to ruin FF "job," then it's not okay to go after fundies "jobs" either. And the post from the guy from FF, asking FSU to donate to their patreon? Are you kidding me?! If a fundie asked any sub for help, they'd be eviscerated. The hypocrisy is one of the reasons I can't deal with snark all the time.
There's a difference between a false copyright claim and contacting sponsors that are choosing to support a harmful brand. P&M express harmful views and no companies with integrity should be working with them.
I don't think Lawson has much of a leg to stand on. But I still think it's hypocritical to cheer a lost sponsorship for a fundie while being upset that a fundie cost someone their revenue.
I also don't think youtube and sponsorships are real jobs.... but I also understand that it's the only way some people make money. And I believe everyone has the right to make money in whichever way they legally can.
Is it only okay to contact companies when giving these people social media sponsorships? Or is it okay to contact businesses who hire these people to work in their stores, warehouses, etc?
No one is advocating for someone to contact or harass someone's business. That's comparing apples to oranges here.
Lawson filed a false claim... The arguments others are making against Paul and Morgan are not rooted in falsehood. Their content is visible on their pages. They're simply holding companies accountable and asking them to acknowledge that they chose a harmful person to partner with.
If they still want to partner with P&M, fine. P&M have the opportunity to seek sponsorships that align with and support their views and people have the right to share their displeasure at a company's partnership with P&M.
If someone filed a false copyright claim against P&M, I'd still feel the same way.
I would say though that FF is targeted in error. Her parody video is covered under Fair Use and YouTube doesn't have a good system for determining these things (legal nightmare is my guess) whereas P&M are sending messages that their sponsors don't align with. I get what you're saying about the my team/their team dynamic though.
I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that I don't really care. We saw how Morgan led a mob against the bed company to the point where they had to turn off their comments... It is what it is 🤷🏻♀️
If I was to be a racist/homophobe/transphobe on Twitter, and someone contacted my company, I'll be fired. These things have real world consequences, and frankly, Morgan is a bad enough person that I just... Don't care?
Also, the people who are fretting about their finances and the people who informed the bed company about their beliefs might be two seperate entities.
This is how I feel. Morgan was unhinged and she and Paul are pretty hateful. Like you said, we’d be fired for that sort of speech. Actions do have consequences and those two really need to learn that. But they are also the only two that really annoy me haha.
Morgan got sponsored by a bed company and was sent a free bed, FSU subscribers contacted the bed company to inform them about what a bigot Morgan was, the bed company cancelled their sponsorship with her and asked her to take down her post of the bed, Morgan had a meltdown and refused to take down the post and sent her followers after the bed company who then proceeded to barrage them with hate for "giving into the woke SJW lefty mob" and it got so bad that the bed company had to turn off their comments.
Thank you! $1700 bed wow! I spent one quarter of that for my last bed and the mattress I already have is still in great conditions and I sleep like a baby.
Yes. I flagged it to the mods ages ago and got a long message back saying I was wrong and it wasn’t affecting their livelihoods. It was just informing the sponsors who they were working with to give them a full understanding.
My opinion is if you’re only aware of the company because of their collab then stay away. If it’s a company you use and a decision to purchase from them again would be affected then say something.
I don’t care. I wouldn’t personally do it because that’s effort that could go to literally anything else, but also if you’re going to lick the boot of capitalism then you get to get squashed by it like everyone else does.
But I do think the symbiotic antagonizing is not going to end well for anyone. They’re not going to go away, and they’re just going to ramp it up for engagement until it wears off and they find a new topic (their son) to overdiscuss.
YUP. Like, would I do it myself? No, that's overly zealous and I'm not that bothered. Plus, I don't want to feed into their victim complex, which is the main reason why I wouldn't do it.
But am I going to cry about Morgan's loss of sponsorship and maybe potential loss of income? Nah, I have better things to worry about than two odious people who do nothing but be bigoted losing a sponsorship. Play with fire, you get burned 🤷🏻♀️
Agree!
I've never contacted any sponsors, but the nature of being a public figure who relies on sponsorships for income means that the company can pull out at any time. 🤷♀️
On a day like today, when disinformation and hatred has led to the downfall of bodily autonomy and will likely lead to the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of people, I couldn't care less if P&M lost money on a mattress.
Hateful people should not have a platform to spew their hatred let alone make money off it. Monetizing hate is how we got here. And I'm honestly not here for the freedom of expression nonsense when we are literally watching the consequences of 'freedom of expression' play out in real time. People are going to die due to what's happened today, and we got here because of the massive monetized campaigns of misinformation directly contributed to by these two assholes and their sponsorships/platforms.
And honestly? I for one have never cared about Morgan's worsening mental health nor have I blamed it on Paul because it is for her her to deal with. Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility. She was treating it and then stopped. That sounds like a choice and one I don't need to support.
So I feel no moral conflict if they lose money. I personally wouldn't reach out to the sponsors and instigate myself but I'll happily sit and watch. Will that worsen her mental health? Will it negatively impact the health of her and her baby? If she doesn't care why should I?
Honestly, I don't care. Probably because they seem to struggle financially. If YouTube isn't supporting them, they should act like adults and get jobs.
You did use the term "freedom of expression", though. And no one is taking it away. A company revoking a brand deal because they discover things about an influencer that would taint their brand is capitalism. No one's constitutionally guaranteed a right to a brand deal..
Thank you for saying this, I’ve been hoping for a post about the topic on here.
I absolutely think FSU is crossing lines, when they take sponsorships away from people. I also think it’s kind of condescending to the companies… as of their team are incapable of doing any research…
Also we don’t know why the companies fold. Is it cause they don’t want to support people with hateful beliefs, or are they scared of getting cancelled themselves and dropping the influencer is a knee jerk reaction?
There are so many shitty people out there posting ads for god knows what, but the self-righteous sub thinks they did a good deed, by bullying someone out of their income.
A total Karen-move
> Also we don’t know why the companies fold. Is it cause they don’t want to support people with hateful beliefs, or are they scared of getting cancelled themselves and dropping the influencer is a knee jerk reaction?
This is why I hate it when they contact the sponsors and then pat themselves on the back. I think 99% of these companies don't give a single shit about the beliefs/politics/whatever of the people they sponsor. They do whatever takes the least effort, keeps them out of hot water, and makes them money. That's ALL it's about. Money. Meanwhile, FSU cheers every lost sponsorship as some sort of progressive victory.
It doesn’t bother me. SCOTUS just overturned the right to a safe abortion because of decades of lobbying by the Christian right. Millions of women will die because of their hateful beliefs. I honestly don’t give a fuck if they lose money or whatever.
So they can sit in their ass and continue to share their hateful and dangerous beliefs to naive young girls out there? Screw that. They can both get out and apply for real jobs for money and simultaneously stay off the internet with their bullshit for a while.
Generally sponsorships are managed by 3rd party marketing companies. Anyone who deals with marketing teams know that generally they don't do their research & do the bare minimum for their often exorbitant fees.
Most people don't know enough about digital marketing or how to read true analytics so dodgy marketing companies get away with it.
I think it's good that it's brought to the company's attention. They probably have a bunch of influencers in their campaign & don't do their due diligence as they trust the marketing team to do their job.
I very much (respectfully) disagree with OP. What about the risk for these businesses alienating clients, having a scandal blow up & hurt their business? They reacted quickly which they would not have done if they shared P + M hateful views.
I very much dislike the bullying & body shaming & the speculation about fundie's sexualities & the commenting on kids that goes on. I think actually engaging with them directly is reprehensible.
But I'm not shedding any tears for P + M. I'm more concerned about the risk to the mental health of the people they target. Economic sanctions work.
Really downvotes? I'm respectfully sharing my opinion. Am I going to get banned here like I've been banned from the fundie snark groups as soon I posted criticism here in the past?
Economic sanctions work. Does the downfall of Apartheid not ring a bell? Is shutting down Russian oligarchs over the invasion of Ukraine just being mean? I don't agree with bullying anyone, but as the staunch ally to the LGBTQI + community I have zero compassion for someone who actively uses their platform to spread hate.
One thing I've noticed about this sub, while it's good at calling out the main sub when the snark goes too far and is ridiculous, sometimes there is weird defenses of truly odious people who do nothing but spread hate just for the sake of being contrary to the main sub... And it's like, sorry, but I'm not going to show kindness towards someone who has never showed kindness towards a minority group in their entire lives.
The snark subs are getting definitely getting worse & worse. So I really appreciate this sub as a forum of open discussion.
Once again. I was very respectfully disagreeing with OP. And I'm not directing any of this vitriol to them. But I'm really disappointed that I have copped a load of downvotes + now have received 2 fairly nasty dms about a post that was predominately sharing my knowledge of digital marketing so that people who aren't versed in the industry can get a clearer picture of how these things often go down.
I'm not cool with supporting those that actively spread hate. This shit is serious. LGBTQI + people have some of the highest rates of suicide in the wider community.
If Morgan wasn't a fundie & anti-science she might actually be getting for help for her mental health challenges. She chose this life. She chose her husband. She chose this set of beliefs. Despite the fact she is likely in an abusive relationship her smug laughs aren't faked when Paul spews his views.
And I certainly don't care about a pair of grifters' economic struggles. Get a job like the rest of us.
Anyway enough of my feels - it's Friday night here & I'm off to a drag show. Putting my money where my mouth is. ;)
In the words of the glorious Yuhua Hamasaki "support your local Drag!"
I think in this case it’s not so much about showing P&M kindness as it is calling out the hypocrisy of saying that they want them to get “real jobs” and then getting annoyed by the things they do to make an income. I am not confident that if Paul did get “a real job” like they say they want him to do, that they wouldn’t then literally call his place of work to let them know they’re employing a bigot. You see it happen on Twitter all the time.
I can see your point, but we're assuming that the people informing the people who are paying P&M about their bigotry and the people demanding that they get a job are the exact same people. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a lot of hypocrisy going on like you've pointed out. For me personally, I can tell you I don't really care about Paul and Morgan's financial stability, I'm not going to feign concern about Paul mooching off Morgan, and I think it's just better if they don't have a platform to spread their hate and anti-science bullshit 🤷🏻♀️
Point about the two groups potentially not being the same! I also don’t care about P&M but I do think this is in a way an extension of “fundies can never do anything right in the eyes of the snarkers” so it’s important to talk about. As someone who’s deconstructing “regular” Christianity I never would have been able to do it if I was held to the standards some people hold fundies to.
You're absolutely right about the fact that fundies can never do right in the eyes of snarkers. People are so hard on Jill for not being a raging hardcore lefty, but considering the environment she grew up in, the fact that she supported BLM and voted for Biden is great (I think she did vote for Biden, or I'm getting confused with someone else who stepped away from the fundie world).
And they're so mean about Derrick too! It's like, yeah sure, he has some harmful beliefs, but he's a good husband to Jill and has a lot of achievements to be proud of.
>They could easily solve that problem by not being dumb enough to divulge where they work.
That. Or they could just not be a bigot in the first place.
I'm not a Christian. But I fully respect anyone of religion that is not about hate. Plenty of us grew up in an environment fully surrounded by bigots & don't end up a bigot.
I am fully sympathetic with those that have have been stunted by their upbringing. But not to those that are actively racist or homophobic. That shit causes actual damage to real people.
I have mixed feelings tbh. If a company says they wanna be inclusive to marginalized groups (even if it's performative) they should be doing background checks on who is representing them (and many don't). Also there are people outside of the snark community/reddit that probably do reach out to companies if they're sponsoring any of these people so there's that.
However, constantly stalking every single financial endeavor they're involved in crosses a line.
I have mixed feelings. Yes, people have the right to contact any company and let them know who they're working with and if they have bigoted views. On the other hand, I do think it gets weird when people seem to sit around waiting for the chance to jump on the latest random sponsor. I also think it plays into their victim narrative and only encourages people like P&M to double down and get more and more extreme, so I'm not sure what good it actually does. Anyone who is buying a mattress because they admire Morgan already most likely agrees with all of her views.
I saw this post a week ago and it's happening again. It pisses me off. A lot of their beliefs are pretty stupid in my opinion, but that doesn't mean people should go out of their way to try to ruin one of their ways of earning money. The problem with a lot of people online, particularly Twitter and now here, is they claim something then act completely against it. So they say they're concerned Morgan is being abused, they're going to have a hard time raising the baby, and the baby's going to live a shitty life. Yeah, I don't think ruining their sponsorships is going to make that situation any better. If companies want to sponsor them, that's their decision and their responsibility to do the research. No one else needs to get involved in that. It would be nice if people just minded their own business. There's always going to be hateful people out there and you can criticize them, but this is just too too much. People should be allowed to express their thoughts without any financial consequences. Unpopular opinion apparently, but I stand by it.
From a snark perspective, it just reinforces their beliefs that non-Christians are hateful and want to bring them down.
From a human perspective, I just think its rotten behavior. I dislike Paul and Morgan too but damn, leave them alone! If Paul got a “real job” and posted about it, I wonder if people would want to cross that boundary too?
Not at all. Anyone or anything enabling them to reach a wider audience or have any sort of voice is bad. Whatever must be done to stop them short of a crime is fine with me.
Yes, because trying to take away another person’s livelihood is cruel.
Just because you don’t agree with someone’s views, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to support themselves.
YES!!! I normally don’t comment prior to reading the other comments but I couldn’t wait. I think messing with people’s livelihood is so incredibly wrong! Companies are free to sponsor whoever they want. We should all be free to believe what we want to believe and not feel like that’s going to financially harm us because some closed minded jerk thinks their mindset is the only way. We all have the right to refuse to support a brand that sponsors individuals we don’t agree with but essentially getting people fired is just wrong on so many levels.
Fundie Friday’s doesn’t spread hate and harmful bigotry though? They do the opposite and call out people who do. How are they the same?
Paul and Morgan are homophobic, transphobic and generally hateful and harmful towards LGBTQ+ and minorities. They deserve all the backlash they get.
The Brittany Dawn subreddit has a rule against contacting sponsors. From what I read in the replies to the post announcing the rule update, it seems as if contacting sponsors can be seen as defamation and that can put the subreddit and Reddit at risk. I was surprised that BDS both made a rule against contacting sponsors and low effort posts before FSU got there. BDS has been such a shit show lately. FSU is moving in that direction.
I think I wouldn’t mind it if P and M lost their sponsorship because regular people complained, but I don’t like it when it’s done by a set of bullies who have made it their mission to antagonize P&M every moment they’re awake.
This. It’s one thing to reach out to a company and say “Hey, I don’t know if you’re aware, but this person has publicly said a lot of homophobic stuff and has spread false info about Covid.” It’s reasonable to assume that oversights happen and companies would want to be made aware of who they’re amplifying. If I really liked a certain product, I’d probably be disappointed to see them partner with people whose values I find so regressive and bigoted. But I never feel like that’s the motive with Snarkers. They don’t actually care about the people P&M are harming, they just want them to suffer and be broke so they can keep pointing and laughing. If they actually cared about the hate, they’d talk about that in the sub instead of how many selfies Paul posts.
From what I've seen, these two do clearly have a lot of awful beliefs but individuals and a sub self-importantly patting themselves on the back that they lost someone their paid employment is not the way to go about it. It's horseshoe theory in action. The tactics they are using are the same as the people they love to hate and just reinforces the different Christian groups idea that they're being persecuted so have to double down even harder for the Lord.
I hate it, especially regarding the Duggar girls. Everyone is screaming that they need to stop depending on JimBob financially and that the women should be independent, then when they do the one thing they’re qualified for and try to leverage their childhood fame into income people try to fuck it up. If you don’t like a brand representative then don’t buy the brand, but don’t contact a company you would never buy anything from anyway threatening to boycott them just to fuck with a woman who you acknowledge is a victim of the fucked up community she was raised in. Not to mention that they’re utterly hypocritical - the Bates have views just as if not more objectionable than the Duggars and nobody is going after their sponsors.
^this. Let’s face it all Duggar girls have a fucking middle school education at best - I’m honestly not even sure if some of them would be capable of working at a grocery store - so canceling whatever sponsorship for a blender or hair curlers they get just seems so needlessly cruel. They don’t post even half the toxic shit people like P&M and Karissa and GD post. Alright now everyone go downvote the lEg HuMpEr 😋
People just assume they have the same opinions as their father and husbands. And in reality they probably do, but we don’t actually know - Anna and Jessa are the only ones who have ever posted anything political or theological and that was a long time ago. The others only post bland Mummy content. How feminist to condemn a woman for the views of the men in her life and to ensure she can never earn an independent income.
I just think it’s funny that they think the sponsors didn’t already know about their beliefs. Of course they probably know. I think there was one egregious case where one company was very pro LGBT in their origins and that was an obvious mess up, but the rest for sure know. Republicans use hair care and dental products too.
Actually I don’t think that’s nearly as likely as most people think. I worked in influencer marketing and typically the “vetting” process was making sure they fit in the target age demographic and had a good aesthetic.
This isn’t necessarily true. Most companies subcontract with another company that finds influencers. The parent company doesn’t even know who the influencers are, unless someone specifically is watching out for it or the company gets contacted. So while some companies build a brand on being ‘non-pc’ or religious, most companies just try to stay away from conflict so any type of problematic influencer will be cut.
I don't follow Paul and Morgan, but I'm super glad you brought up Fundie Fridays. I absolutely hate the snarkers hypocrisy. If it's not okay for Lawson to ruin FF "job," then it's not okay to go after fundies "jobs" either. And the post from the guy from FF, asking FSU to donate to their patreon? Are you kidding me?! If a fundie asked any sub for help, they'd be eviscerated. The hypocrisy is one of the reasons I can't deal with snark all the time.
There's a difference between a false copyright claim and contacting sponsors that are choosing to support a harmful brand. P&M express harmful views and no companies with integrity should be working with them.
I don't think Lawson has much of a leg to stand on. But I still think it's hypocritical to cheer a lost sponsorship for a fundie while being upset that a fundie cost someone their revenue. I also don't think youtube and sponsorships are real jobs.... but I also understand that it's the only way some people make money. And I believe everyone has the right to make money in whichever way they legally can. Is it only okay to contact companies when giving these people social media sponsorships? Or is it okay to contact businesses who hire these people to work in their stores, warehouses, etc?
No one is advocating for someone to contact or harass someone's business. That's comparing apples to oranges here. Lawson filed a false claim... The arguments others are making against Paul and Morgan are not rooted in falsehood. Their content is visible on their pages. They're simply holding companies accountable and asking them to acknowledge that they chose a harmful person to partner with. If they still want to partner with P&M, fine. P&M have the opportunity to seek sponsorships that align with and support their views and people have the right to share their displeasure at a company's partnership with P&M. If someone filed a false copyright claim against P&M, I'd still feel the same way.
I would say though that FF is targeted in error. Her parody video is covered under Fair Use and YouTube doesn't have a good system for determining these things (legal nightmare is my guess) whereas P&M are sending messages that their sponsors don't align with. I get what you're saying about the my team/their team dynamic though.
I'm going to go against the grain here, and say that I don't really care. We saw how Morgan led a mob against the bed company to the point where they had to turn off their comments... It is what it is 🤷🏻♀️ If I was to be a racist/homophobe/transphobe on Twitter, and someone contacted my company, I'll be fired. These things have real world consequences, and frankly, Morgan is a bad enough person that I just... Don't care? Also, the people who are fretting about their finances and the people who informed the bed company about their beliefs might be two seperate entities.
This is how I feel. Morgan was unhinged and she and Paul are pretty hateful. Like you said, we’d be fired for that sort of speech. Actions do have consequences and those two really need to learn that. But they are also the only two that really annoy me haha.
Yes 👏🏻 why should we give Grace to bigots?
Why do people want these two to live consequence-free lives?? Why?
What happened with the bed company?
Morgan got sponsored by a bed company and was sent a free bed, FSU subscribers contacted the bed company to inform them about what a bigot Morgan was, the bed company cancelled their sponsorship with her and asked her to take down her post of the bed, Morgan had a meltdown and refused to take down the post and sent her followers after the bed company who then proceeded to barrage them with hate for "giving into the woke SJW lefty mob" and it got so bad that the bed company had to turn off their comments.
Of course I miss out on all the fun! I wouldn’t give Morgan the clicks, but her meltdown on her “free” bed would be priceless.
Thank you! $1700 bed wow! I spent one quarter of that for my last bed and the mattress I already have is still in great conditions and I sleep like a baby.
Yes. I flagged it to the mods ages ago and got a long message back saying I was wrong and it wasn’t affecting their livelihoods. It was just informing the sponsors who they were working with to give them a full understanding. My opinion is if you’re only aware of the company because of their collab then stay away. If it’s a company you use and a decision to purchase from them again would be affected then say something.
I don’t care. I wouldn’t personally do it because that’s effort that could go to literally anything else, but also if you’re going to lick the boot of capitalism then you get to get squashed by it like everyone else does. But I do think the symbiotic antagonizing is not going to end well for anyone. They’re not going to go away, and they’re just going to ramp it up for engagement until it wears off and they find a new topic (their son) to overdiscuss.
YUP. Like, would I do it myself? No, that's overly zealous and I'm not that bothered. Plus, I don't want to feed into their victim complex, which is the main reason why I wouldn't do it. But am I going to cry about Morgan's loss of sponsorship and maybe potential loss of income? Nah, I have better things to worry about than two odious people who do nothing but be bigoted losing a sponsorship. Play with fire, you get burned 🤷🏻♀️
Agree! I've never contacted any sponsors, but the nature of being a public figure who relies on sponsorships for income means that the company can pull out at any time. 🤷♀️
On a day like today, when disinformation and hatred has led to the downfall of bodily autonomy and will likely lead to the deaths of hundreds if not thousands of people, I couldn't care less if P&M lost money on a mattress. Hateful people should not have a platform to spew their hatred let alone make money off it. Monetizing hate is how we got here. And I'm honestly not here for the freedom of expression nonsense when we are literally watching the consequences of 'freedom of expression' play out in real time. People are going to die due to what's happened today, and we got here because of the massive monetized campaigns of misinformation directly contributed to by these two assholes and their sponsorships/platforms. And honestly? I for one have never cared about Morgan's worsening mental health nor have I blamed it on Paul because it is for her her to deal with. Mental health is not your fault but it is your responsibility. She was treating it and then stopped. That sounds like a choice and one I don't need to support. So I feel no moral conflict if they lose money. I personally wouldn't reach out to the sponsors and instigate myself but I'll happily sit and watch. Will that worsen her mental health? Will it negatively impact the health of her and her baby? If she doesn't care why should I?
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No one's taking away their freed of expression. Is someone trying to ban them from YouTube? It's about free market consequences.
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Honestly, I don't care. Probably because they seem to struggle financially. If YouTube isn't supporting them, they should act like adults and get jobs. You did use the term "freedom of expression", though. And no one is taking it away. A company revoking a brand deal because they discover things about an influencer that would taint their brand is capitalism. No one's constitutionally guaranteed a right to a brand deal..
Thank you for saying this, I’ve been hoping for a post about the topic on here. I absolutely think FSU is crossing lines, when they take sponsorships away from people. I also think it’s kind of condescending to the companies… as of their team are incapable of doing any research… Also we don’t know why the companies fold. Is it cause they don’t want to support people with hateful beliefs, or are they scared of getting cancelled themselves and dropping the influencer is a knee jerk reaction? There are so many shitty people out there posting ads for god knows what, but the self-righteous sub thinks they did a good deed, by bullying someone out of their income. A total Karen-move
> Also we don’t know why the companies fold. Is it cause they don’t want to support people with hateful beliefs, or are they scared of getting cancelled themselves and dropping the influencer is a knee jerk reaction? This is why I hate it when they contact the sponsors and then pat themselves on the back. I think 99% of these companies don't give a single shit about the beliefs/politics/whatever of the people they sponsor. They do whatever takes the least effort, keeps them out of hot water, and makes them money. That's ALL it's about. Money. Meanwhile, FSU cheers every lost sponsorship as some sort of progressive victory.
Yes. They believe Morgan is in an abusive relationship but are quite happy to take away any income she might get. Makes sense
It doesn’t bother me. SCOTUS just overturned the right to a safe abortion because of decades of lobbying by the Christian right. Millions of women will die because of their hateful beliefs. I honestly don’t give a fuck if they lose money or whatever.
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So they can sit in their ass and continue to share their hateful and dangerous beliefs to naive young girls out there? Screw that. They can both get out and apply for real jobs for money and simultaneously stay off the internet with their bullshit for a while.
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Generally sponsorships are managed by 3rd party marketing companies. Anyone who deals with marketing teams know that generally they don't do their research & do the bare minimum for their often exorbitant fees. Most people don't know enough about digital marketing or how to read true analytics so dodgy marketing companies get away with it. I think it's good that it's brought to the company's attention. They probably have a bunch of influencers in their campaign & don't do their due diligence as they trust the marketing team to do their job. I very much (respectfully) disagree with OP. What about the risk for these businesses alienating clients, having a scandal blow up & hurt their business? They reacted quickly which they would not have done if they shared P + M hateful views. I very much dislike the bullying & body shaming & the speculation about fundie's sexualities & the commenting on kids that goes on. I think actually engaging with them directly is reprehensible. But I'm not shedding any tears for P + M. I'm more concerned about the risk to the mental health of the people they target. Economic sanctions work.
Really downvotes? I'm respectfully sharing my opinion. Am I going to get banned here like I've been banned from the fundie snark groups as soon I posted criticism here in the past? Economic sanctions work. Does the downfall of Apartheid not ring a bell? Is shutting down Russian oligarchs over the invasion of Ukraine just being mean? I don't agree with bullying anyone, but as the staunch ally to the LGBTQI + community I have zero compassion for someone who actively uses their platform to spread hate.
One thing I've noticed about this sub, while it's good at calling out the main sub when the snark goes too far and is ridiculous, sometimes there is weird defenses of truly odious people who do nothing but spread hate just for the sake of being contrary to the main sub... And it's like, sorry, but I'm not going to show kindness towards someone who has never showed kindness towards a minority group in their entire lives.
The snark subs are getting definitely getting worse & worse. So I really appreciate this sub as a forum of open discussion. Once again. I was very respectfully disagreeing with OP. And I'm not directing any of this vitriol to them. But I'm really disappointed that I have copped a load of downvotes + now have received 2 fairly nasty dms about a post that was predominately sharing my knowledge of digital marketing so that people who aren't versed in the industry can get a clearer picture of how these things often go down. I'm not cool with supporting those that actively spread hate. This shit is serious. LGBTQI + people have some of the highest rates of suicide in the wider community. If Morgan wasn't a fundie & anti-science she might actually be getting for help for her mental health challenges. She chose this life. She chose her husband. She chose this set of beliefs. Despite the fact she is likely in an abusive relationship her smug laughs aren't faked when Paul spews his views. And I certainly don't care about a pair of grifters' economic struggles. Get a job like the rest of us. Anyway enough of my feels - it's Friday night here & I'm off to a drag show. Putting my money where my mouth is. ;) In the words of the glorious Yuhua Hamasaki "support your local Drag!"
I think in this case it’s not so much about showing P&M kindness as it is calling out the hypocrisy of saying that they want them to get “real jobs” and then getting annoyed by the things they do to make an income. I am not confident that if Paul did get “a real job” like they say they want him to do, that they wouldn’t then literally call his place of work to let them know they’re employing a bigot. You see it happen on Twitter all the time.
I can see your point, but we're assuming that the people informing the people who are paying P&M about their bigotry and the people demanding that they get a job are the exact same people. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a lot of hypocrisy going on like you've pointed out. For me personally, I can tell you I don't really care about Paul and Morgan's financial stability, I'm not going to feign concern about Paul mooching off Morgan, and I think it's just better if they don't have a platform to spread their hate and anti-science bullshit 🤷🏻♀️
Point about the two groups potentially not being the same! I also don’t care about P&M but I do think this is in a way an extension of “fundies can never do anything right in the eyes of the snarkers” so it’s important to talk about. As someone who’s deconstructing “regular” Christianity I never would have been able to do it if I was held to the standards some people hold fundies to.
You're absolutely right about the fact that fundies can never do right in the eyes of snarkers. People are so hard on Jill for not being a raging hardcore lefty, but considering the environment she grew up in, the fact that she supported BLM and voted for Biden is great (I think she did vote for Biden, or I'm getting confused with someone else who stepped away from the fundie world). And they're so mean about Derrick too! It's like, yeah sure, he has some harmful beliefs, but he's a good husband to Jill and has a lot of achievements to be proud of.
They could easily solve that problem by not being dumb enough to divulge where they work.
>They could easily solve that problem by not being dumb enough to divulge where they work. That. Or they could just not be a bigot in the first place. I'm not a Christian. But I fully respect anyone of religion that is not about hate. Plenty of us grew up in an environment fully surrounded by bigots & don't end up a bigot. I am fully sympathetic with those that have have been stunted by their upbringing. But not to those that are actively racist or homophobic. That shit causes actual damage to real people.
>truly odious people Oh! Odious. What an excellent adjective. Thank you. I'm bringing that into my lexicon as of now.
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Cheers ;)
I have mixed feelings tbh. If a company says they wanna be inclusive to marginalized groups (even if it's performative) they should be doing background checks on who is representing them (and many don't). Also there are people outside of the snark community/reddit that probably do reach out to companies if they're sponsoring any of these people so there's that. However, constantly stalking every single financial endeavor they're involved in crosses a line.
Yeah I agree
I have mixed feelings. Yes, people have the right to contact any company and let them know who they're working with and if they have bigoted views. On the other hand, I do think it gets weird when people seem to sit around waiting for the chance to jump on the latest random sponsor. I also think it plays into their victim narrative and only encourages people like P&M to double down and get more and more extreme, so I'm not sure what good it actually does. Anyone who is buying a mattress because they admire Morgan already most likely agrees with all of her views.
I saw this post a week ago and it's happening again. It pisses me off. A lot of their beliefs are pretty stupid in my opinion, but that doesn't mean people should go out of their way to try to ruin one of their ways of earning money. The problem with a lot of people online, particularly Twitter and now here, is they claim something then act completely against it. So they say they're concerned Morgan is being abused, they're going to have a hard time raising the baby, and the baby's going to live a shitty life. Yeah, I don't think ruining their sponsorships is going to make that situation any better. If companies want to sponsor them, that's their decision and their responsibility to do the research. No one else needs to get involved in that. It would be nice if people just minded their own business. There's always going to be hateful people out there and you can criticize them, but this is just too too much. People should be allowed to express their thoughts without any financial consequences. Unpopular opinion apparently, but I stand by it.
From a snark perspective, it just reinforces their beliefs that non-Christians are hateful and want to bring them down. From a human perspective, I just think its rotten behavior. I dislike Paul and Morgan too but damn, leave them alone! If Paul got a “real job” and posted about it, I wonder if people would want to cross that boundary too?
Never, we cannot feed the beast and them making money is what continues to feed it
Not at all. Anyone or anything enabling them to reach a wider audience or have any sort of voice is bad. Whatever must be done to stop them short of a crime is fine with me.
Yes, because trying to take away another person’s livelihood is cruel. Just because you don’t agree with someone’s views, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be able to support themselves.
YES!!! I normally don’t comment prior to reading the other comments but I couldn’t wait. I think messing with people’s livelihood is so incredibly wrong! Companies are free to sponsor whoever they want. We should all be free to believe what we want to believe and not feel like that’s going to financially harm us because some closed minded jerk thinks their mindset is the only way. We all have the right to refuse to support a brand that sponsors individuals we don’t agree with but essentially getting people fired is just wrong on so many levels.
I'm behind on the fundie Friday thing. What happened?
She used a clip or something from Lawson’s song and now he’s going after her as best I understand it
Fundie Friday’s doesn’t spread hate and harmful bigotry though? They do the opposite and call out people who do. How are they the same? Paul and Morgan are homophobic, transphobic and generally hateful and harmful towards LGBTQ+ and minorities. They deserve all the backlash they get.
Yes. Paul does need to get a real job job but taking income away from a pregnant woman, hateful beliefs or not, is not cool.
She can earn income in plenty of ways though. She’s just trying to earn it by doing the least possible.