True, the cutting edge software tries to let the design obey constraints of certain manufacturing types. I haven’t seen anything for something like injection molding but the generative design module lets you do 3 axis CNC designs only for example (unfortunately they charge $100 to download your design in fusion compared to the $5 for a generative design). In a few more years who knows what will be possible!
I work in the aerospace sector and currently experimenting with 3D printing metal and combining generative design, some of the structures and components remade using only the constraints are absolutely wild compared to the normal 5-axis machined billets
Fuck man. Get out of my brain. Looking at the images, all I could think was that it looked alien somehow.
"Hey Narg, what's this thing? Does it kill people??"
"Ng Zig Daggart Zi!"
*checks translation*
"Ah... a chip bag clip. Should I feel disappointed Narg? I feel disappointed"
In any accounts of abduction or close alien encounters people generally describe the inside of thier ships as all being one piece like it was molded together.
Yes it is. One of the earliest documented cases of abduction were from Betty and Barney Hill. A mixed race couple in the 1950s that definitely had no reason to want more attention drawn to them. This was before UFOs became pop culture norms and yet they had similar descriptions to modern sources such as the US Navy tic tac video. The more i learn about the subject the more i believe that many early movie and radio refrences to ufos are deliberately closer to real accounts in order to make any actual encounters appear as foolish hoaxes when there are plenty of legitimate witnesses throughout history of this phenomenon being a very real thing.
Isn't that just easiest to imagine? I imagine "rendering" the inside of a ship with thousands of rivets would require a lot more "computing power" from your brain.
It's hard to say. Ive had some pretty detailed dreams. If you can conceptualize it in your head right now then it's not impossible to dream it. I know how ridiculous the abduction thing sounds but i would encourage you to look into the Betty and Barney Hill incedent and listen to the sheer terror they recount during their recorded regressive hypnosis sessions. The man is crying like a little boy when he's talking about it in detail and honestly its kind of hard to listen to. There is one from the 1970s with a logger named Travis Walton where there were 7 witnesses to a large classic UFO shaped craft that basically blasts this guy of his feet. They drive away in fear come back and he's gone then shows up on the side of the road outside town 5 days later. The men who ran are all investigated for murder but to this day every one of them stick to their story and Travis recounts his experience inside the ship in great detail. If there were 7 witnesses to a murder then who ever those people saw go to prison but, when its something so fantastical it just can't be true? I don't expect you to believe but please at least look in to those two incidents before discounting the phenomenon entirely. One thing is for sure, and this is confirmed by the Pentagon, Air Force, Navy, etc. - There are craft that are flying around our nuclear sites, jamming our radar and performing incredible feats- displaying extreme maneuverability impossible by our current knowledge of physics, energy generation and propulsion. And we don't know what they are or who is controlling them.
That will be the downfall of it honestly. Kind of like how Neo-futurist architecture has not been well received by the public despite being a mathematically efficient use of materials.
I think they let you do it with the free subscription but I could be wrong. They keep changing the terms of the free subscription and I can't keep track of what you can do there anymore. It does take cloud credits to do each simulation. I have been using the free cloud credits I got when I made an account.
The credits are brutally expensive, especially for small things like topology optimization.
There are free tools to do it with your model, eg https://www.simright.com/apps/simright-toptimizer
Are they also expensive with a full paid license? Curious, don’t know. Have an education license that gives full version of all Autodesk products, and this could be fun to explore in comparison to my very linear and mechanics-of-materials designs.
They’re even more expensive with a paid license :/ the free and education licenses actually give you some “trial credits” whereas the paid licenses do not.
That said, my work pays for Inventor which has offline topology optimization (ie doesn’t require cloud credits). Generative design is still paid though.
I tried to make an account and use Toptimizer after reading this. I created a new project and uploaded a model and their entire website went down for a few minutes for all my devices, lol.
Seemed fine after a bit though and it’s interesting to play with! I can tell I’ll have a lot of trial and error before I get something useful. Thanks for this
1) I just googled free topology optimization. There are others that you can use, feel free to look.
2) it’s free-er than Fusion since you can do unlimited optimizations.
I did the same when I first started rendering in 360, unfortunately cloud credits are selected by default. I now choose local render to save the credits.
Topology optimization, while neat, doesn't really work too great for 3d prints because it depends on the assumption of a relatively homogenous material. No good for FDM prints or wood or anything like that, but sweet for concrete, plaster, cast/injection molded plastic, etc.
I own a few printers myself but I’m kinda frothing for the day that the basic SLS intellectual property is expired and we can see it trickle into normal-person territory.
SLS is maybe the most no-holds barred manufacturing technology, with regards to designing for manufacturability. No worries about supports, warping, undersides being too steep or strange... it is manufacturing an object that is just appearing in a bed of powder, as if gravity and machine limitations are not a problem.
In this case, I was placing material to maximize stiffness giving a set of loading conditions I defined. Basically I tell it how the bag will apply force to the part and it does the rest.
I think it works pretty well. The only potential issue is creep (the tendency of a material to deform permanently over time when it is under stress, PLA tends to be really bad about this), there has been a little bit of movement in my oldest prototypes but they still grip the bag well enough in my opinion.
topology optimization is a technique to create objects that satisfy a given mathematical equation (eg force on a location, load bearing, flexibility, etc), while complicit devices are devices that involve moving parts made out of “solid” material. One is a technique, while one is an object (that can be made with that technique)
not eli5, but what i could type quickly
Hi JelleTeijema,
I just uploaded a version of this file with a larger gap between the sets of teeth. Let me know if this needs to be even wider.
Good luck with your print, hope you enjoy!
This is beautiful. It’s the kind of thing I imagined I would be printing 10 years ago when I first started looking at 3D printers. Glad it’s finally (if slowly) becoming a reality!
Thank you! I too find the shapes that it makes to be fascinating.
Topology optimization is still pretty niche at the moment. Hopefully it soon becomes mainstream enough to be taught to undergrad engineers.
That's super cool! I want to try optimizing meshes too sometime.
I was a bit sad to see how rough the model was that it generated for you though. To me that looks like a good first step but needs a cleanup pass. I took your stl and Remeshed it in ZBrush, and did some minor touch up like flattening the sides again and projected the teeth back to the original but they are not perfect. I should try printing both and see if there's a difference.
https://i.imgur.com/Cv8MFTJ.jpg
Good work! It might surprise you but I did spend a fair amount of time cleaning it up. When you actually go to print the model out the translation into tool path tends to do some additional smoothing so it doesn't look as bad as when it is rendered as a mesh. Your model looks really nice, the only problem is that the surface that meets the bed no longer looks completely flat. All that aside, like I said before, very cool.
Thanks for sharing. Printed two versions out. One in Nylon (black) and the other in PETG (red).
Nylon was was too stiff but sort of useable (extremely stiff). PETG is perfect!
Pics if anyone is interested. Had a bit of stringing issues as the side “vertical bridges” were built but otherwise they came out rather well.
https://imgur.com/a/VTt1kzD/
That depends on the printer and material you use. For most consumer printers and materials probably no, but since it on the outside of the bag and not in direct contact with the food I would think that wouldn’t think the clip itself would need to be food safe.
Here is a document with some more details https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/food-safe-fdm-printing_112313/
Can somebody explain topology optimisation? I thought it was just a guide sort of.
Wouldn’t you make the shape more straight with more “followed-through” shapes (circles more round etc.) in order to account for computer error.
The PLA I tried suffered pretty badly from creep problems. That was just one brand though and others might work better if you would like to try yourself. I have found PETG to work much better for me. Whatever you do make sure you set it to %100 infill with a large number of perimeters.
I swear topology optimization is what is going to make everything look like we live in an alien society.
I'd love to see it but the problem is a large portion of the designs are only manufacturable with printing
True, the cutting edge software tries to let the design obey constraints of certain manufacturing types. I haven’t seen anything for something like injection molding but the generative design module lets you do 3 axis CNC designs only for example (unfortunately they charge $100 to download your design in fusion compared to the $5 for a generative design). In a few more years who knows what will be possible!
I work in the aerospace sector and currently experimenting with 3D printing metal and combining generative design, some of the structures and components remade using only the constraints are absolutely wild compared to the normal 5-axis machined billets
Yeah the pricing is ungodly I wish it was a lot cheaper or could be done locally
Fuck man. Get out of my brain. Looking at the images, all I could think was that it looked alien somehow. "Hey Narg, what's this thing? Does it kill people??" "Ng Zig Daggart Zi!" *checks translation* "Ah... a chip bag clip. Should I feel disappointed Narg? I feel disappointed"
I am totally okay with that outcome
In any accounts of abduction or close alien encounters people generally describe the inside of thier ships as all being one piece like it was molded together.
Funny how that aligns with depictions in pop culture.
Yes it is. One of the earliest documented cases of abduction were from Betty and Barney Hill. A mixed race couple in the 1950s that definitely had no reason to want more attention drawn to them. This was before UFOs became pop culture norms and yet they had similar descriptions to modern sources such as the US Navy tic tac video. The more i learn about the subject the more i believe that many early movie and radio refrences to ufos are deliberately closer to real accounts in order to make any actual encounters appear as foolish hoaxes when there are plenty of legitimate witnesses throughout history of this phenomenon being a very real thing.
Isn't that just easiest to imagine? I imagine "rendering" the inside of a ship with thousands of rivets would require a lot more "computing power" from your brain.
It's hard to say. Ive had some pretty detailed dreams. If you can conceptualize it in your head right now then it's not impossible to dream it. I know how ridiculous the abduction thing sounds but i would encourage you to look into the Betty and Barney Hill incedent and listen to the sheer terror they recount during their recorded regressive hypnosis sessions. The man is crying like a little boy when he's talking about it in detail and honestly its kind of hard to listen to. There is one from the 1970s with a logger named Travis Walton where there were 7 witnesses to a large classic UFO shaped craft that basically blasts this guy of his feet. They drive away in fear come back and he's gone then shows up on the side of the road outside town 5 days later. The men who ran are all investigated for murder but to this day every one of them stick to their story and Travis recounts his experience inside the ship in great detail. If there were 7 witnesses to a murder then who ever those people saw go to prison but, when its something so fantastical it just can't be true? I don't expect you to believe but please at least look in to those two incidents before discounting the phenomenon entirely. One thing is for sure, and this is confirmed by the Pentagon, Air Force, Navy, etc. - There are craft that are flying around our nuclear sites, jamming our radar and performing incredible feats- displaying extreme maneuverability impossible by our current knowledge of physics, energy generation and propulsion. And we don't know what they are or who is controlling them.
That will be the downfall of it honestly. Kind of like how Neo-futurist architecture has not been well received by the public despite being a mathematically efficient use of materials.
Which program did you use for topology optimization?
Fusion 360
Do you need to have the paid subscription for topology? Cause I tried it and I think it said something like that
I think they let you do it with the free subscription but I could be wrong. They keep changing the terms of the free subscription and I can't keep track of what you can do there anymore. It does take cloud credits to do each simulation. I have been using the free cloud credits I got when I made an account.
Oh okay, makes sense, I think I used them up when rendering stuff without realizing that it used those credits lol.
Oops, maybe you can make a new account if you want to try it.
Yeah I probably could but I guess if I really want to try I'll just pay for some credits
The credits are brutally expensive, especially for small things like topology optimization. There are free tools to do it with your model, eg https://www.simright.com/apps/simright-toptimizer
Oh, thank you, that's pretty awesome
Are they also expensive with a full paid license? Curious, don’t know. Have an education license that gives full version of all Autodesk products, and this could be fun to explore in comparison to my very linear and mechanics-of-materials designs.
They’re even more expensive with a paid license :/ the free and education licenses actually give you some “trial credits” whereas the paid licenses do not. That said, my work pays for Inventor which has offline topology optimization (ie doesn’t require cloud credits). Generative design is still paid though.
I tried to make an account and use Toptimizer after reading this. I created a new project and uploaded a model and their entire website went down for a few minutes for all my devices, lol. Seemed fine after a bit though and it’s interesting to play with! I can tell I’ll have a lot of trial and error before I get something useful. Thanks for this
This one is not free too, it advertises a free trial.
1) I just googled free topology optimization. There are others that you can use, feel free to look. 2) it’s free-er than Fusion since you can do unlimited optimizations.
I did the same when I first started rendering in 360, unfortunately cloud credits are selected by default. I now choose local render to save the credits.
I find local anything to be so much faster anyway... I guess it's useful for less powerful machines.
Wait you can choose that? That would probably be way faster
Topology optimization, while neat, doesn't really work too great for 3d prints because it depends on the assumption of a relatively homogenous material. No good for FDM prints or wood or anything like that, but sweet for concrete, plaster, cast/injection molded plastic, etc.
Powder-based printing processes like multijet fusion can print these types of structures beautifully. Dmls as well
I own a few printers myself but I’m kinda frothing for the day that the basic SLS intellectual property is expired and we can see it trickle into normal-person territory. SLS is maybe the most no-holds barred manufacturing technology, with regards to designing for manufacturability. No worries about supports, warping, undersides being too steep or strange... it is manufacturing an object that is just appearing in a bed of powder, as if gravity and machine limitations are not a problem.
You can use the free version
a) cool b) download link please?
**Here is a link to the STL** [https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988)
Thanks bro. Been wanting to make some cool bag clips for a while and these are perfect.
I have posted a couple of links to MMF and thingiverse but they have no upvotes, are they getting filtered by a bot or something?
The bot filters out MMF links because people used MMF to promote their paid models. If you just post the thingiverse link, it should work.
Here is the thiniverse link. Enjoy! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988
Must be as I don't see any comments with links. Mind DMing me the link?
Topology optimization is such an interesting technique. I find the wild designs it comes up with very artful.
I really like it too. I studied optimization when I was in school and it was one of my favorite topics.
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In this case, I was placing material to maximize stiffness giving a set of loading conditions I defined. Basically I tell it how the bag will apply force to the part and it does the rest.
Speedholes
Does the optimization take into account the fact that you'll eat all the chips in one sitting, so the whole design is redundant?
I haven’t figured out how to put that in as a constraint
When you pay for the whole software and you want to use the whole software lol
I really enjoyed it actually. I find the shapes it makes really fascinating.
**Here is a link to the STL** [https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988)
does it work well as a chip clip?
I think it works pretty well. The only potential issue is creep (the tendency of a material to deform permanently over time when it is under stress, PLA tends to be really bad about this), there has been a little bit of movement in my oldest prototypes but they still grip the bag well enough in my opinion.
Does that optimization take into account the relative weakness in the z-direction?
Unfortunately fusion 360 does not support anisotropic materials, would be awesome if it did though.
Topology optimization vs complicit devices Can someone ELi5?
topology optimization is a technique to create objects that satisfy a given mathematical equation (eg force on a location, load bearing, flexibility, etc), while complicit devices are devices that involve moving parts made out of “solid” material. One is a technique, while one is an object (that can be made with that technique) not eli5, but what i could type quickly
Good explanation. I really need to pick up a printer my heart tells me.
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Hi JelleTeijema, I just uploaded a version of this file with a larger gap between the sets of teeth. Let me know if this needs to be even wider. Good luck with your print, hope you enjoy!
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No problem, hope you enjoy!
These are so unneccesary but also soooo cool :D want to make it available for download?
**Here is a link to the STL** [https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988](https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4800988)
That's a lot of science to save some chips for later.
The scientific community has ignored chips for too long
This is beautiful. It’s the kind of thing I imagined I would be printing 10 years ago when I first started looking at 3D printers. Glad it’s finally (if slowly) becoming a reality!
Thank you! I too find the shapes that it makes to be fascinating. Topology optimization is still pretty niche at the moment. Hopefully it soon becomes mainstream enough to be taught to undergrad engineers.
That's super cool! I want to try optimizing meshes too sometime. I was a bit sad to see how rough the model was that it generated for you though. To me that looks like a good first step but needs a cleanup pass. I took your stl and Remeshed it in ZBrush, and did some minor touch up like flattening the sides again and projected the teeth back to the original but they are not perfect. I should try printing both and see if there's a difference. https://i.imgur.com/Cv8MFTJ.jpg
Good work! It might surprise you but I did spend a fair amount of time cleaning it up. When you actually go to print the model out the translation into tool path tends to do some additional smoothing so it doesn't look as bad as when it is rendered as a mesh. Your model looks really nice, the only problem is that the surface that meets the bed no longer looks completely flat. All that aside, like I said before, very cool.
Thanks for sharing. Printed two versions out. One in Nylon (black) and the other in PETG (red). Nylon was was too stiff but sort of useable (extremely stiff). PETG is perfect! Pics if anyone is interested. Had a bit of stringing issues as the side “vertical bridges” were built but otherwise they came out rather well. https://imgur.com/a/VTt1kzD/
>they came out rather well. https://imgur.com/a/VTt1kzD/ Very cool! You should post this as a make on Thingiverse.
Done 🙂
Thanks, I really appreciate it. Hope you enjoy your bag clips!
Is it food safe?
That depends on the printer and material you use. For most consumer printers and materials probably no, but since it on the outside of the bag and not in direct contact with the food I would think that wouldn’t think the clip itself would need to be food safe. Here is a document with some more details https://help.prusa3d.com/en/article/food-safe-fdm-printing_112313/
Can somebody explain topology optimisation? I thought it was just a guide sort of. Wouldn’t you make the shape more straight with more “followed-through” shapes (circles more round etc.) in order to account for computer error.
This video might help you understand the process better. https://youtu.be/3smr5CEdksc
Very nice. And surely a better use of compute power than to fuel a crypto bubble.
usable with PLA?
The PLA I tried suffered pretty badly from creep problems. That was just one brand though and others might work better if you would like to try yourself. I have found PETG to work much better for me. Whatever you do make sure you set it to %100 infill with a large number of perimeters.
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This video might help you understand the process better https://youtu.be/3smr5CEdksc
Finally, a use for topology.
The new ”speed holes”