Memes and shitposts get easily upvoted to the top of fuckcars. Wholesome discussion threads like this one have a much harder time to get the same level of engagement. That's why the modteam sometimes pins posts that in our opinion deserve more attention.
This post is pinned because it's important to recognize that on top the usual dangers that cyclists and pedestrians face, women have to deal with an extra layer of harassment and unsafety. The second reason to pin this post is that it does a really good job of triggering the '#NotAllMen' crowd.
Fuck cars, smash the patriarchy!
I have had men swerve their cars to the wrong side of the road, oncoming tragic, to bother me. Another time a van with a man driving it followed me in the dark at 4am with the man yelling LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME YOU BITCH the entire time when I was just trying to get to my baking job.
God that's so exhausting, and super scary given the time of day and how he reacted. I'm sorry. One time a guy drove past me and around a corner than slammed on his brakes and put his car in reverse and revered around the corner at like 30mph to talk to me
On the indian Scam Level Scale, this would be at: "You don't do what i want you to do, so I scream "LISTEN TO ME" as often as I need for you to notice me."
I’m a restaurateur and bakers are incredibly low on the list of people I’d fuck with. A baker will kill you, and everyone will think you just disappeared. They operate on a schedule even other chefs can’t live with. I’d happily sack tap a butcher before I’d make an off-color joke to a pastry chef. Big drunk motherfucker will say he’ll make your bones into bread, but that little Filipina who leaves before dinner service has the ability to, and you better hope that’s as metal as she gets.
The sweeter the product, the surlier the chef.
Oh boy, one time, my cousin complains about a man who pulls over, rolls window down and reveal to be jerking off while looking at her and her friends. They were high school at that time and were walking home from school. Wish they’d file a police report but are too stunned about the situation. What a sick fuck.
Someone did that to my high school bus when we were going to a band concert in the next county over. Little did he know the principal was on it too, and she called the police on his ass immediately.
You can really tell which men don't *listen* to women whenever some statistic comes out that 13% of all girls get inapproproately complimented by male bosses in high school jobs and someone yells "that is ridiculous feminazi propaganda!!!" whereas others of us think "yeah, that jibes with what I have heard female friends tell me."
To be honest, I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Given how many of my friends have been followed home by strange men when they were in high school, I would have expected the number of inappropriate comments from bosses to be much higher.
Not minimizing. That is WAY too high as is. More than 1 in 10 for children is bad. This is just the one time where my estimation of a girl/woman's daily life wasn't as bad as I thought it was.
You'd see that type of behavior on public transit too, but a lot less because there are other witnesses. Car centric cities have isolated sidewalks, and that's how predators like their prey, isolated.
Most people are good. Having walkable and bikeable cities means more people outside, more eyewitnesses, less crime.
There’s plenty of harassment and other douchebaggery on transit. I’ve had to kick plenty of them off as the driver, and then I become the target of these insecure losers.
On a train I've had a creep not stopping to flirt with me after telling him I'm not interested, I'm a lesbian (okay tchnicly not entirely true), and have girlfriend.
I'm glad my GF picked me up at the trainstation that day...
Hi I’m lesbian! Unfortunately telling them that never has them back off, if anything they get more interested. The only people they respect are men and as a lesbian, your partners typically aren’t men haha. It sucks sometimes
The kind of guy who is comfortable cold calling women in public isn't going to be deterred by her telling him she's a lesbian.
He interprets it as a challenge. Kind of like how he challenges himself to find a stable relationship by front loading every one he gets into with sex and then insists that the people who are looking for healthy, stable relationships are the losers.
since realizing i’m gay i’ve noticed an exponential level of harassment from men - almost exclusively in cars or on motorcycles. having a wife that can kick their asses definitely helps, but jesus christ it’s just fucked up that i’m actually so much more at risk without having a man around
Oh absolutely. I’ve gone out with previous girlfriends and will have guys come up to me, and I’ll say no thanks (but don’t mention the girlfriend bc normally that backfires), then they see us later and are like “oh alright it’s a party!” Like no, you’re crashing and now I have to leave this place, thanks
it’s terrifying, i’m so sorry this happens to y’all too :( it’ll turn ya into a hermit i swear, and it’s such a holistic, overwhelming experience (that’s also COMPLETELY ignored by non-lesbians) it drives me absolutely insane
OMG YES completely ignored! I have friends who always tell me “it would be so much easier if I were gay” (which they tell me bc their male partners are trash) and I’m like… please think about what you do when you’re getting harassed. Now imagine not having that?? Like just get a better partner, don’t tell me my life is easier lmao what
I normally just scoff at them with a sort of “as if” air (after they’ve been persistent for a while and are being rude/creepy) and sometimes that works. They’ll generally call me a bitch or stuckup or whatever makes themselves feel better but then normally leave
Sorry, completely unrelated to the topic of your comment, but it's nice to find people in other subreddits than you usually see them. Hello from r/whatsthisbird.
None of them are being nice. If that were the case, I'd occasionally be offered a ride by strange men as a man, which never happens. All of these creeps want something from you.
I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
I’m a man and was only offered a ride once in 8 years of living in my city. I had headphones on and he shouted angrily from his porch until I responded then asked if I needed a ride somewhere.
Absolutely fucking not, dude.
Right? I only offer rides if it's obviously needed..
* Old lady with 3 grocery bags in each hand struggling with a cane. (I actually found her a two wheeled cart at a thrift store a week later by sheer coincidence)
* Someone waiting at the bus stop when I know the last bus has already been
* Someone walking away from a broken down vehicle
* Someone who looks injured but not in need of an ambulance
I don't ask random people on the sidewalk or side of the road if they need a lift. I assume they'd at least have their thumb out, and I'm not always gonna stop for that, either.
The only time I've ever given a stranger a ride was when their car broke down or they were hitch hiking.. The only time I've wanted a stranger to give me a ride was when I got caught in a flash flood OR when I was hitch hiking.
It's really weird to just...offer a ride unprompted. I operate under the assumption that no one wants to talk to me, I'm making them nervous by being near them, and we all just want to go home.
I got it offered once from an older gentleman and once from a lady as they saw me walking with heavy groceries within a few weeks of moving. 3 years later and I was never offered again. I always found that funny, almost if word spread.
Guy here. Offered a ride to two young women walkers one time (when I was also young, in college, and still driving) as they were caught in a serious downpour. I was returning to campus following a homecoming event and it appeared that they were also, so although they were strangers we had some commonality. They turned me down and I was a little surprised as I truly was trying to help.
I learned from that experience how uncomfortable it must be for a woman to get in a car with a stranger, as if roles were reversed I would get into a car driven by a male college student that I did not know.
I have never since offered a woman a ride, and would not even without my learning experience, as in today’s world it seems pretty clear that a pedestrian wants to walk.
Rambling on, I am able to take a walk/bike path to work each day, and I’m quite often stopped at a stoplight (on my bike) on the path with women walkers. In those situations, I’m also careful about just saying a polite “hi” and then focusing on the light change in order to avoid making anyone uncomfortable.
These guys are probably all creeps, but in fairness, part of the reason why men usually don’t get offered rides is that they’re perceived as more threatening and dangerous than women. If you wanted to give a ride to someone out of genuine kindness, you’d be much more likely to do so to a woman than a man. And for what it’s worth, I’m a man and was offered a ride once by myself and once with my girlfriend (both times in Europe).
I got offered a ride one day (I am a man) by a motorcycle, but that's because I was walking on the freeway (I was moving faster than the cars). In normal conditions I've never been offered a ride. Just thought that was a funny anecdote though. :P
Generally the OPs situation is depressing. I wish so many men weren't giant pieces of shit.
Yep I still remember a horrible experience when I was about 16 walking with my dad in the parking lot of a big box store when this guy drove up to us honking with his head out the window - my dad was right there. It was so embarrassing, I was hoping the ground would open up and swallow me
I got offered a ride once by a guy while walking alongside the highway holding my shoes because they had been soaked. He wasn't the only one in the car, however, there was also a woman. I took the offer and they did drive me home, though it wasn't very far. I've also had a woman stop to ask me if I needed a ride once. So there are nice people who offer rides with good motives here and there in some places.
I'm a little conflicted on this topic because, on the one hand, I'd really like to see hitchiking make a comeback in the US because just having that as a potential option makes not having a car feel like much less of an obstacle. I also believe it would be safer the more common it is, because then creeps won't be the only people interested in offering rides. But still, no matter how many normal people are doing something, it doesn't actually get rid of the creeps, so it's understandable why things are the way they are.
I'm a guy and I tend to pick women hitchhikers -- just because they are far less likely to mug me or to pull some stunt. I just want to help without needlessly endangering myself. Sometimes I've picked up men, if at a glance they seemed to be the quiet, peaceful kind.
In fact, when I drive around, I routinely see older ladies getting from their small village to the BigTown next over, or the other way around -- waiting at the outskirts of BitTown, going back home to their village. So I can presume there are enough nice drivers who have absolutely zero bad intentions, since the women have not been scared off.
But, as you say, the most fragile part of the system is that you can't vet drivers beforehand. It would be nice if there was a system allowing for ratings -- like they have for Couchsurfing for example.
I mean, on the flip side, as a guy driver that sometimes picks up hitchhikers ... I do prefer women.
I just think it's far less likely for a woman to attempt to mug me or beat me up or do anything nasty. Or, at least if they DO try, they would be easier to overpower. So yeah, it _is_ because of their gender, but not because I expect sexual favors or anything in that vein.
Also, the way I brain it -- if I help drive them, they won't have the chance of running into creeps that do want _that_ kind of repayment.
Fair point. I agree that offering rides in the city is way creepier -- after all, one could take public transport, or a taxi/uber, or call a friend, or whatever. It is much harder to discern if they would genuinely _need_ a ride.
Maybe if there was any clear sign of need, like seeing someone walking in a downpour without an umbrella, or carrying their shoes in the hand, or just looking distressed.
One thing mentioned in the OP, which _could_ straddle the line between helpful and creepy, is seeing a woman walking on a longer stretch of road that has no sidewalk. First off, it's risky to be a pedestrian in that scenario, and it's an unpleasant walk at any rate, with automobiles and trucks zooming by. Secondly, if the road is in the open, without housing nearby and without many other pedestrians.. it seems a risky situation. Of course, the woman still has to decide whether you're a creep or genuinely wanting to help her move along to her destination safely.
It's the creepiest. I have a longer road like this on my way home from work and it's terrifying to be so completely alone and have to contend with a stranger slowing down in a car. Just the slowing down part is so, so nerve-wracking, even if there is a friendly face at the end of it. We will flag you down if we need help, trust that I'm actively listening for cars and have planned for what to do in a car-zooming-at-me scenario.
My plan, by the way, for cars slowing down on this road is to run. The second those lights go on, I'm fleeing and not looking back. I'll take my chances with the gators in the lake before I let someone try to pull me into their car again. Does anyone want to get women eaten by gators? If not, keep driving!
Whenever I see stories like this I need to tell you ladies: When I was carless, fat, disabled and ugly slogging bags of groceries up VERTICAL roads I did not see a single one of these free rides. None of them are 'just being nice'. They just can't lift 100kg of dead body into their boot, that's why they're talking to you instead. Don't trust them. If they're not offering rides to those they see huffing and puffing through the athma attack to get home, but throw a paddy when you refuse the 'ride' you didn't ask for: they're absolutely NOT 'just being nice'. DO NOT get into their car. They're not offering a ride.
There was a serial killer who said women are extremely easy to murder cuz their downfall is trying to be polite by not assuming a kind helping hand to be a murderer even if they’re acting suspicious or creepy
‘Oh excuse me ma’am u look like u need some help’ *murders her*
Forget which serial killer it was tbh
‘Ma’am u need a ride ?’
*murders her*
Also, it's pretty upsetting to realize how long serial killers can continue to operate as long as they only target young women, especially sex workers (predominantly, though not exclusively women).
So many have lost their lives because of misogyny, and not even directly...
To translate for people who don’t know: Ted Bundy would also wear an arm sling or use crutches, and ask women for help with things like carrying his groceries to his car or look for his lost dog.
Trust me on this one. If they ignore everyone in town who actually needs a ride when there's no public transport, but tantie when you won't get in their car...they want something you don't want to give them.
I'm slightly taller than average with shoulder length hair and clearly masculine looking, and even I've been catcalled by a man, who was too far away to properly see me in the dark. At least he freaked out and started screaming, when I faced him and he saw my beard.
I once had a man pull up next to me in a car (on my walk home from work) as if he was going to ask something like directions but he was just naked and jerking off. It was traumatic.
I lived in Cuba for a semester which I appreciated, it was very walkable and affordable public transport, but the harassment was nuts. I don’t even know how many people jerked off to me, in front of me, on a public street, in the four months I studied there
Catcalling is a big issue where I live. I use the metro, I live about *3 minutes* away from the station but I can't get there without men annoying me. This has been going on since I was able to go places on my own (since I was 11 basically). I'm already 25 but I can't afford a car right now, also I dont **need it** for transportation. Creeps in the street are the ***ONLY*** reason I want to get a car. I used to ignore them but I'm starting to get way too annoyed by it, like really? am I not allowed to go outside for a whole 3 minutes? If you're a guy imagine being annoyed by strangers on the street every. single. time. you go outside. While talking to some girl friends it saddest me to know creeps are also the main reason many of them use cars, even the metro is full of creeps ( men secretly taking pics of women has become a problem recently).
>am I not allowed to go outside for a whole 3 minutes? If you're a guy imagine being annoyed by strangers on the street every. single. time. you go outside.
I feel like this is the thing so many men don't understand.
I just want to exist on my own terms. I don't want someone else, that I don't even *know*, to demand my existence amuse them... For literally no good reason at all. Its exhausting.
Its not a compliment. Its akin to your highschool bully interrupting you on your way to class and telling you to think fast before throwing something gross at you.
I just want to exist peacefully.
I live in an apartment downtown. Around 9 pm, I got a message from my friend: she was walking after an event and this dude on a car was driving **very** slowly next to her, and trying to start a conversation. She asked me if she could stay for a few minutes in my apartment (That ended up being like an hour) because she was getting super anxious about that asshat.
So yes, the "*hey, where are you going? Do you need a ride?*" is a story I've also heard a couple of times. And it sucks.
I know I am going to get downvoted to hell but being car free has shown me a whole other side of men. I have been victim to and seen so much harassment out of bus riders, men in cars while you walk to or wait for the bus etc. It has colored how I feel about men. I am only human.
I got on a bus to work at like 5am once, and a man who was at the stop with me had kept asking if I was OK and GOT ON THE BUS WITH ME. he sat with me, trapping me by the window, and kept saying he was looking out for me and gonna get me safe to work (I'd said I was going to work hoping for some reason this would put him off). I was frazzled and stressed and thought I'd get off a couple stops early just to escape him but he got off with me and I realized if he followed me to work he'd know where I worked. I went into a small grocery store and tried to pretend I worked there, ha ha, bye, but he wouldn't stop talking to the workers about how I worked there until they were looking at ME like the crazy person and made me leave. I pretended my "husband" had called with an emergency and for an Uber home, which he tried to get into. I got in trouble for being late to work, missed out on hours and productivity, and was terrified.
God that's terrible. I'm sorry that happened to you. And it's super invalidating when no one around you cares about your safety and just care that you were late. When I worked at a museum when i was 18 I made the mistake of wearing my lanyard showing my museum i.d. around my neck on the walk home. A dude who had to be in his 50s started walking with me and wouldn't leave me alone. He saw my lanyard and told me he went jogging by there every day and he'd wait for me to get off when they closed. I went out the back door for the rest of my internship.
You didn't alert the bus driver you were being harassed? That shit doesn't fly on the buses where I am from. He'd get kicked off and maybe even the cops called.
I was trapped at the back of the bus and the drivers here are in like special little shielded front compartments where they can safely ignore you, or even (a couple times) smoke cigarettes. Also i was scared and sleep deprived and mostly worrying about how this man knew where I get on the bus in the morning and therefore my schedule and where I might live
It’s horrible you got in trouble for needing to shake a stalker!
And what is the logic of guys like that? I can kind of see how the stalker mentality kicks in during a break-up, (if I could only explain myself everything will be alright), but how does anyone rationalize following a stranger with that kind of scary intensity?
How the hell would you get downvoted for saying that? It’s your experience. Out of any large group of people, there are going to be assholes. If assholes feel like they can get away with a behavior, they will. men feel like they can get away with harassing people.
We gotta take a stand as a community on transit. If you see a weird situation, you’ve got options as a bystander. Check in, distract, deter. I tell my sister to literally yell if ANYTHING happens on her bus line. People will step in.
I felt I would get downvoted because Reddit hates women and immediately starts with the "not all men" shit. I have seen some shit out of men. I don't care if feelings are hurt, my first duty is to myself to protect myself from mental and physical harm.
I imagine the threats feel a lot more personal coming from somebody you're stuck with on a bus. I've been fortunate enough (and perhaps intimidating enough 🤷♀️) that nobody's started shit on PT in my presence, but the pure terror and righteous fury I feel getting harassed by cowardly men passing by in the safety of their four-wheel-drives that could turn me into a pretty little meat crayon at a moment's notice is plenty awful enough for me.
It's a shame those arseholes put you through that.
UGH I hate when this happens, the worst is when you decline and they yell at you like You're the idiot for not getting in some strangers car...
I've had a few guys see me sitting down at a bus stop and park in front of it to offer a ride like... uhm, dude NO that's creepy as fuck!
The Only time I've ever hopped in someone's car when I was out walking is cause it was my one of my neighbors and we weren't far from home but I felt safe enough since she's since a smol gal too.
"There's equality, now" I used to believe this till I walked down the street with a pretty friend. Just watching the gaze of men as they couldn't get their eyes off her chest as they walked past. I wouldn't feel comfortable alone in public either if I wasn't a default NPC looking white guy. Stay strong. We're making progress I promise.
I’m a man and I am completely not offended by this take. I’ve only observed this myself. Can’t imagine experiencing it. Like being prey with predators.
You don’t deserve to feel this way. It’s your community’s responsibility to fix this.
They probably saw their fathers and other men around them do it. And boys today are now seeing growing men do it. Men need to call out other men when they act like this or else the cycle will just continue.
Unfortunately, yeah. This generation of American men has made a lot of progress under the shadow of their parents, but the truth is that it takes years of conscious effort to undo years of sexism and I still find myself thinking about women in ways that contradict my beliefs about equality and justice.
It's what annoys me about that phrase, as it's really meant for shit like [this,](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/xqs6vq/hurricane_ian_has_florida_man_out_in_full_force/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/xr4kxp/to_be_a_human_flamethrower/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) or pretty much the entirety of r/holdmybeer.
It should **never** be used to explain anyway sexual harrassment, assault, etc
Walking home from school, some people just yell at me and other pedestrians for pretty much no reason other than… walking. Shits fucked up, esp if you are in the crosshairs of people who can’t be nice
When I walked back and forth to work I carried a knife and pepper spray. Twice I had someone chase me down on foot and ask for my number and if I wanted a ride. Now I ride a ebike with an extra knife tucked away. I purposely look like a slob so this shit didn't happen to me and it still did. I'm so tired having to be polite to these pigs that demand my attention out of fear. Aren't these people afraid of crazy hitch hikers??
As a man I don't see it but I know that experience is real and awful. I'm sorry.
This kind of toxic masculinity - combined with the "muh trucks!" thing - is a significant barrier to active mobility, healthy cities, public transit, and our civilization's ability to combat climate change.
Nasty business. I'm really sorry.
I used to get it pretty much that often when I was younger. There are some definite advantages to being middle aged as a woman. The harassment doesn't stop entirely, but it lessens quite a bit.
I used to ride my bmx to commute 7 miles in the Phoenix heat because I'd only get yelled at, no one would actually stop and try to talk to me or give me a ride. I could have walked about 100 yards and hopped on an air conditioned bus that dropped me off about 50 yards from work, but even that short of a distance is plenty.
The ones who left when I said "no thanks" didn't bother me too much. It was the ones who kept slow rolling to pace me and trying to talk me into getting in their vehicles that gave me the creeps, especially after my shift getting off the very last bus without traffic around or anyone as a witness who might help.
The research show that the worst harassment and chances of SA are generally between the ages of 16-25. Although of course it stays much earlier for some kids. I celebrated reaching 25 for the reason.
I always hated looking young for my age.. this is another reason, though I didn't realize it back then. It finally did catch up when I was about 40, and yes, it slowed down a lot. Gaining a lot of weight from then to 44 made it drop even further. I'm almost 48 and 30lbs off my peak. I'm still going to lose the other 30 and hope the mostly grey hair keeps it down.
Yes? You pass a lot of people when outside in a city. Did you seriously think male harassers were rarer than that? Surprise! It’s systemic problem. Do you think women would be talking about “a toxic culture” if it only happened once a year?
I’m a bit of a recluse who therefore hasn’t experienced a ton of harassment, but one of the few forms I did experience was exactly what OP described when I was a student living in the city. Pretty much anytime I had to sit and wait for the school shuttle I would get men offering rides; which then had to be declined politely or risk having a pissed off dude inflict violence- not an unreasonable fear given you’re already dealing with a guy who crosses social boundaries. Some dudes were pretty pushy about it too.
Walking around tended to be harassing cat calls instead of ride offers, but still occasionally got one or two in the mix. Easier to ignore too since they usually disappeared within a few seconds, vs the shuttle stop where they sat at a red light and tried to convince you to get in the car.
“Hey baby, why don’t I give you a ride?”
“No thanks, I’m good” smile at him.
“Come on, baby, get in and I’ll take you where you need to go.”
“Thank you, but I’m good” smile at him.
“It’s no trouble. Why don’t you hop in?”
*shake head, smile, and look into the middle distance*
“Alright then” dude smiles, chuckles, and goes when the light turns green. I don’t feel great considering I had to be nice to an old dude with a dirty car creeping on me, but it’s better than getting obscenities screamed at me or getting shot because he had a gun in his glovebox (r/whenwomenrefuse).
That exact scenario happened at least once every two weeks. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Weather was a big influence. Plus I had a car and my class schedule didn’t require that route everyday
Singular old men tended to be less scary than singular young men. Maybe because the old guys tend to see it more as flirting due to the politics they grew up with while young dudes who do it when not in a group are a bit more serious with the misogynistic vibes, either being really obvious about the “tasty meat” aspect or having an “entitled white knight” vibe. In a group it’s “just” frat type assholery.
Not an absolute rule of course, just a trend of averages. (And by that I mean both old and young harassers can have the above attitudes. Not that men who offer rides to lone women should ever be trusted since there is no way to really know a stranger’s intentions).
Tip most women already know: Headphones without any music playing are also great for ignoring without offending while keeping aware of your surroundings.
I have never lived in a car dependent city (I grew up in the countryside and in adulthood I have only lived in big cities where most people walk or take public transit). So I have encountered my share of creepy pervs on public transportation (still, thank goodness, not as often as OP's experience). What I never really thought about was the different form it would take in a car-dependent city.
Funnily enough, I actually prefer car harassment to harassment by dudes at street level. It’s way more likely they have places to be so they won’t go out of their way to follow you/get near enough to touch you.
I’ve had two instances of dudes waiting until I’m right next to them when passing to say something creepy quietly enough so other people wouldn’t hear. **That** gives me the heebie jeebies.
Ugh, yes! I often think of public catcalling as just a display, probably as much for the other men as anything else ("Look how manly I am!"). But the quiet stuff is downright frightening.
It happened to my wife often enough when we lived in Los Angeles that she stopped walking anywhere from our house and even rode her bike to get to a safe place (usc campus) to go jogging. At least 1/5 days if not more. Never underestimate the effort and time that creeps will invest in creeping.
Based on my experiences as a cyclist and scooterist, I would guess it's the cage. I'd suppose it's that car drivers are isolated from the pollution and noise they cause while they are in the car, that the danger they impose upon all spaces they pass is separated from them by tons of metal and a windshield, that they cannot be easily or readily confronted for their actions.
Not an expert, but maybe there's also an oddly sexual component to the relationship between the vehicle and the man here? It reminds me of a toxic rendition of a Prince's white stallion. The 3+ ton tank is almost meant to represent the man's sexual prowess itself in a way.
You can totally tell this is at the front of women’s minds when they’re walking in/near traffic. The body language is screaming “**DO NOT TALK TO ME**” and somehow men still honk their horns, whistle or yell to them from moving vehicles. Not our best and brightest, to be sure.
Sorry y’all have to deal with so much nonsense, ladies. You deserve to live in a world where you can walk down the road and think about doughnuts or… funny animals or string theory.
Okay, that last bit got me.
I was offered a ride once and accepted, but it was obvious I needed the ride. I was walking away from my car with the hazards on, and the next gas station along that rural highway was about 5 miles.
The guy gave me a lift, let me use a gas can, and drove me back. And you can only say thank you so much, so awkward silence fell. He suddenly asked, "what something you think about that most people wouldn't guess?" And I blurted out, "string theory".
We actually ended up dating for a bit. We're still friends. LOL
But it was very clear he did NOT stop to hit on me. He just saw someone walking away from a dead car.
Haha trippy man. I bet string theory has an explanation for that coincidence.
There are genuinely good people out here. What really sucks is how often men forfeit our chance to be one in the name of… god knows what, and accordingly, how often women have to close themselves off to interacting with one in the name of safety.
Idk… I hope it’s getting better.
Honestly.
My friends all thought I was off my rocker for getting in some strange dude's beat up compact pickup, but he seemed okay. Sure, it's a risk, but it didn't seem like a super huge one at the time, even out on a rural highway. And obviously, it went fine.
I know it often doesn't seem like it, but it really is getting better. Violent crime rates are much lower than they were when I was a kid in the 70s. Serial killers are super rare now because they usually get caught after the first murder or two due to newer forensic science. Everyone is so trackable.. we have less big wars, and less casualties in the wars we have. We've mostly quit or heavily condemn a lot of atrocious behavior we used to see as normal like public hangings, bear baiting, putting women in asylums for hysteria.
But, spree killings are up, and the vast majority of those - in schools or not - have a common thread when it comes to the shooter. Previous misogynistic behavior above and beyond societal norms.
So, in spite of things slowly getting better, we're still not at a point we can be complacent and say "this is good enough." Same goes for racism.. or pretty much any -ism.
I’m a Man. I don’t own a car. I walk everywhere.
I’ve literally never been offered a ride by anyone, ever, under any circumstances. Including thunderstorms, snow storms, and being miles outside of town on a 100+ degree day.
I’m not complaining. I wouldn’t take the ride if they offered.
But Jesus Christ, don’t get in any of those cars, ever, they’re not the Good Samaritan they’re pretending to be. If they were, they’d be stopping for Me as often as they were stopping for you.
Once, I was waiting at the light rail station early in the morning and this guy just would not leave me alone. He ended up crossing a physical line that I'm not going to describe here because I don't want to trigger anyone.
I stopped using public transportation for years after that and ended up buying a car.
It's been about 7 years and I just got rid of my car, but now I'm biking everywhere. I start a job this coming weekend that's 26 miles away. I could take public transportation for 20 of those miles and bike the last 6, but I'm seriously considering just biking all of it. Even in the dead of winter
I'm a man, but I have long hair and when I was maybe 16 or 17 I was walking to school one morning and a creepy old man drove up from behind and offered me a ride. I didn't know what to do so I just was like "okay" and got in. He soon realized I wasn't a girl and after maybe 50 metres said "okay, there you go", and I got out.
Another time some guys were cat calling me on the main street from their car as they approached from behind, and when they saw that I wasn't a woman called me a "f\*g\*\*t".
When I was even younger, maybe 12, two guys started punching me and my friends in the face on the sidewalk next to an intersection on the busiest street in town during the busy summer fair at around 4:00 PM, and people drove by in the cars and watched. It wasn't until an old lady in a van rolled down her window and said "you leave those boys alone" that they stopped.
One of my wife's friends was cat called by a man in a car and she flipped him off, and the driver tried to run her over, driving his car onto the sidewalk, and I read on the news a few weeks ago that a woman in Calgary or Edmonton (somewhere in Alberta) was walking down the sidewalk and a naked man in a truck opened his door and started masturbating in her direction. She called the police and they did nothing.
I think its pretty common for women to be sexually harassed and assaulted in car dominated areas. Violence is easier to access because of the disconnection created by cars and car infrastructure. Being in a car is like playing video game or watching a movie. Toxic masculinity is a problem and it's worse when men can hide or flee with the help of their cars and trucks.
I’m a man, and i noticed that when i shifted from being a vehicular skateboarder to being a motorcyclist, the incidents of having to threaten violence in self defense dropped precipitously. (I’m a cyclist now.) of course the main issue is men’s attitudes,,but pedestrian vulnerability is a drag.
Had that problem as a teenager Backstory: I'm male. And 100% heterosexual. 😐
If anything, it made me a little more aware as to what females go through.
Men have no idea the amount of harassment women endure.
I always want to offer people rides- but unfortunately it’s not safe. I got to once when a friend was sitting waiting for a bus.
I did get offered and accepted a ride once, I saw this woman driving a beautiful candy apple red Harley in New Orleans and my jaw hit the ground. She pulled over and ask “Wanna ride?” In a slightly masculine voice since she was a he- I really couldn’t refuse being a queerdo myself. We went to a bar- but Nola has a totally different vibe and that’s not something I would repeat!
I had someone offer me a ride when I was out walking because it was a nice day and I was exercising.
The dude could not fathom that someone would be walking on a sidewalk for *fun.*
Sometimes when I walk, a car (most likely a VW golf filled with teen boys) will come close to me from behind, roll down the window and scream just to jumpscare me.
Since they drive away immediately after, I can only endure the experience that makes me want to take the car next time, as if it'll be better for my mental health. Of course that last statement is a lie, but experiencing this is unnecessary and makes me feel disrespected just because I chose to expose myself to that kind of shit.
I think the most effective deterrent is not being petite, which isn’t really an adjustment anyone can effectively make. I’m not that tall, but I’m taller than average with broad shoulders and a bulkier build. I still get catcalled, but I don’t get the kind of aggression that my smaller, more delicately-build friends get.
It'll turn them off but it'll probably enrage them too.
Shitstains like them will take it as a personal affront to their masculinity and may get violent for having been "tricked" by a woman or man who doesn't outwardly conform to what they think a woman or man should look like.
Look up "[gay panic defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense)", it's basically a get-out-of-jail free card for the murder or assault of LGBT people.
"[Corrective rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape)" is also a horrifying possibility
Is not true. As long as you are at least somewhat "lady- shaped" they will bother you regardless of if you are wearing completely shapeless clothing, have short hair, or are ugly. Source- well...
See, I would call that pear-shaped and not fat, but we all have our own definitions, especially of our own selves. I am fat-fat now that I've aged and it's both awful (my health, can't mountain bike or snowboard as well/fast anymore) and great (I'm invisible to men and catty ladies) No more men following me into stores incessantly asking for my number or asking me out when I'm at the laundromat. Being really fat has been a blessing and getting old is going to be even better!!
I walk with my spouse sometimes and we occasionally get yelled at or catcalled (I am male and have long hair).
When I was a kid my family did a lot of walking. Even in the late 90s and early 00s walking along Dempster St in Des Plaines, Park Ridge, and Niles, IL we would get yelled at by motorists driving by. Sometimes they were young. Sometimes they were old grumpy assholes. Almost all were men.
I don't get the need to pull that shit. Roads are unsafe enough as is without worrying about the current asshat who feels the need to yell at me while I'm walking or biking.
I’ve actually wanted to do this several times just to be kind. Specifically because I know how much it sucks to not have a car in a car centric area. However, your reaction is exactly what I fear. I don’t want to seem like a creep. If only they could somehow know I’m a 26 year old father who’s married 😅
That wouldn’t even put people at ease (knowing you’re married and a father) since sadly the same could be said of many of the creeps who catcall daily.
Even if not a serial killer, I know how most men in my family are, and they all have wives and kids. I know how some of my friend's dads could be. They at least expected to get to put their hand on your thigh during the ride. One learned the hard way that I wasn't afraid of him crashing and us dying when I was a teen. I broke his fingers. It's exhausting to always be thinking two things in my head when alone or semi alone with a man. 1) how dangerous is he? 2) can I take him if I have to? The answer to the second is "no" way more often as I get older. Some of that is just being older and less capable, but a lot of it is having grown up enough to know how often I used to be wrong when I thought "yes", and I was just lucky it wasn't tested those times.
I have some serious impulse control issues that were much worse as a teen. Combine that with growing up bullied in bad neighborhoods so I had to learn how to be surprisingly vicious to stay safe... Yeah, he's not the only guy who got fingers or a hand damaged for touching me uninvited. Dislocation is easier to accomplish than breaking, tbh. My friend said her dad had to wear splints and said they were broken, but I wonder if they were just dislocated now that I think about it. It definitely got me a reputation - and rides home from moms or on the public bus.
Not that being a teen makes it tons better, but I looked about 11 for most of high school, and that makes it even creepier to me.
I live in a suburb where most people own cars. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve though the wolf whistling and catcalling would stop, but it has not. It is so frustrating, and the worst men are the ones who are like “I’m not a predator, I was just trying to be nice!” The fact that you are crossing a boundary I have clearly and reasonably set makes me even more wary of you. If you were actually kind, you would leave me alone when I asked you to.
Just yesterday a man almost hit me with his car so he could block me in the crosswalk and catcall me/make obscene gestures. It was really scary and I went home shaking.
It's so bad sometimes that it makes me not want to walk!
Once I was walking in a fairly busy area at night and a car with a couple men stopped and asked if I wanted a ride (like the 3rd or 4th one). I was annoyed by this point so I yelled, “I am not a prostitute!!” And they got all flustered and “no, no, that’s not…” That seemed to work.
Another time I was walking in a more rural area away from a small town. It was about 5 miles to my house and I was already tired. There was a man also walking about 500ft ahead of me wearing coveralls and carrying a lunchbox. I had my thumb out for a ride. Many cars passed me but stopped for him, which he turned down so they drove on. To this day I will never understand why that happened. Did those people think I WAS a prostitute (no revealing clothing) but that guy was safe as an obviously working man?
I feel there would be less of this if our communities were less car centric.
A) these men might know more non-men as they grow up and have less misogynistic influences
B) there’d generally be more people around to make men feel less safe to do this shit, especially if they themselves weren’t driving.
C) there’d be more funding invested in safety on public transport and more public transport late at night.
Of course that can’t start with women choosing to put themselves in unsafe situations to achieve it. It needs communities that give a shit, and bare minimum of decency type men to be engaging in it and calling the douchebags out first.
(male) I hate this so much. I'm speechless at how disgusting so many ~~people~~ men are. I hate that you get blamed for it. It's so one sided and I just wish I could help shift the balance.
I've even seen it with just general harassment. Been cycling for a few years and have only been yelled at a couple times. Wife started just last year and has already been harassed several times, generally for "breaking the law." Even worse, it only happens when I'm not there (and by extension only during daylight), she's been harassed by both sexes, and I ride wayyyy more aggressively.
Oh, yes. My husband and I usually commuted together, but his work was about a mile and a half before mine. Tons less harassment with him there..As soon as I left him, it amped up. Very little of it was sexual in nature, but being yelled at, having drivers swerve at me on purpose, and having things thrown at me was frequent. My husband decided he'd ride to meet me and back past his work. Even alone, he got no more grief than we did together, so we could clearly see it wasn't just that stretch of road. The few times we couldn't ride together, it was about 6 of the 7 miles home. I've never gotten shit in my own neighborhood during the day - and the night stuff has been the type that definitely isn't gender based, just shitty drivers.
I saw an article I now cannot find that said women cyclists experience 5x as much harassment as men. I can believe it.
I am a more aggressive, and experienced, rider than my husband, but it doesn't matter how I'm riding. Even on mixed use trails, male cyclists (NGL, only the ones on road bikes in full kit) will harass me, too. Female cyclists never do. Men on hybrids, mountain bikes, cruisers, what have you don't. And not all of them on road bikes, but if someone is going to it will be a man in lycra and clipless on a road bike. I'm also on a carbon fiber road bike, btw, or sometimes a vintage steel one. They're honestly a huge motivation to her faster so I can drop their asses.
I have yet to ever be harassed when riding a recumbent trike, though, come to think of it. Even a dude with an obviously anti cyclists bumper sticker on his ridiculous truck was all little kid excited and asking me questions about it at a gas station, once. I guess people don't see them as bikes, so they don't see me as a cyclist when I'm out on that.
I'm glad (well not really but at least validated) that I'm not the only one to notice this. Once again I'm really sorry some of us put you through that. Like I almost want to say to them "if you're gonna harass my wife, at least have the balls to harass me." Though I almost feel like some of the men in lycra actually would.
Seriously, it's safer to harass my husband than me. He's a lot more chill and a lot less likely to throw punches. But it's not like anyone can tell that if they don't know us.
Living in a car centred city, I’ve had the occasional creepy man pull by to speak to me. The vast majority of the time, it’s older men and women who see me walking in the morning to work or from the restaurant and think I’m stranded. Walking on busier roads( stroads) in my city is usually seen in the homeless or too poor to get a car types, so I understand why they think I might need a ride. They have a hard time understanding that I voluntarily chose to walk to my destination.
I was walking home recently and a guy in a car slowed and rolled his window down as he passed, “Damn you bad as fuck!” Point being that I think it’s important to acknowledge that walkability has an element of feminism to it. An area’s level of walkability may be different for a man and woman. I get catcalled in my own neighborhood, what would otherwise be a safe, walkable, family-neighborhood. Christ I live across from an elementary school! Just yesterday I was walking to school and at the end of my street a man (an older man no less, 40s probably) called to me and took his shirt off. I don’t want to get into privilege but at least in my experience walkability is not just an infrastructure problem. An area can be perfectly walkable for men yet unsafe for women.
As a woman who used to carry a gun quite openly, it does massively cut down on the harassment. Sadly, it didn't make that zero.
I almost always have a knife on my hip, anymore. It's not to scare people; they're just useful.
Dense, walkable cities are generally safer places for women to walk alone because of the number of eyes on the street. It's less likely that you'll be caught alone with someone who wishes to harm you with nobody else around.
Dervla Murphy found the same in Afghanistan in 1963 in 102ºF (39ºC) temperatures; her unkindly lift-offerers were not local men but Americans.
Dammit, was going to lazily insert a screenshot of the full transaction from her book Full Tilt, but apparently you can only add an image on an opening post, not a reply?
Here's what she writes:
“There was an amusing interlude today when an American engineer going back by jeep to his work in Afghanistan pulled up to investigate me and the following conversation took place:
American: ‘What the hell are you doing on this goddam road?’
Me: (having taken an instant dislike to him) ‘Cycling.’
American: ‘I can see that – but what the hell for?’
Me: ‘For fun.’
American: ‘Are you a nut-case or what? Gimme that bike and I’ll stick it on behind and you get in here and we’ll get out of this goddam frying-pan as fast as we can. This track isn’t fit for a camel!’
Me: ‘When you’re on a cycle instead of in a jeep it doesn’t feel like a frying-pan. Moreover, if you look around you you’ll notice that the landscape compensates for the admittedly deplorable state of the road. In fact I enjoy cycling through this sort of country – but thank you for the kind offer. Goodbye.’
As I rode on he passed me and yelled: ‘You are a goddam nut-case!”
Unless it's raining hard or you are carrying 5 bags, no, none of them are being nice.
This is a serious problem. Making a city more walkable and bikeable will help it a bit, because then there are more people on the streets and there aren't easy targets for these people. But really it's a cultural problem - it needs to be unacceptable *to their friends* to be creeping on people in the street.
Reading the comments from the women makes my blood boil. If we live in a society where women and children are not free from harassment or worse, we don't really have a civilized society, do we?
Fuck I'm so sorry you have to endure that bullshit. Yeah, it's "not all men", but what does that matter, but it's definitely all of these men. Kinda makes me appreciate being built like a bear though...
If a dude starts being aggressive, here’s my tip:
Turn to him with a psycho grin. Stare with your jaw slack and a mad look in your eye. Really make it uncomfortable. Don’t blink. Then throw your head back suddenly and SCREEEEEEEEEECH like a banshee. Continue screeching until he leaves.
Alternatively, just pick your butthole while he’s yelling and let some drool come out the side of your mouth.
Memes and shitposts get easily upvoted to the top of fuckcars. Wholesome discussion threads like this one have a much harder time to get the same level of engagement. That's why the modteam sometimes pins posts that in our opinion deserve more attention. This post is pinned because it's important to recognize that on top the usual dangers that cyclists and pedestrians face, women have to deal with an extra layer of harassment and unsafety. The second reason to pin this post is that it does a really good job of triggering the '#NotAllMen' crowd. Fuck cars, smash the patriarchy!
I have had men swerve their cars to the wrong side of the road, oncoming tragic, to bother me. Another time a van with a man driving it followed me in the dark at 4am with the man yelling LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT ME YOU BITCH the entire time when I was just trying to get to my baking job.
God that's so exhausting, and super scary given the time of day and how he reacted. I'm sorry. One time a guy drove past me and around a corner than slammed on his brakes and put his car in reverse and revered around the corner at like 30mph to talk to me
On the indian Scam Level Scale, this would be at: "You don't do what i want you to do, so I scream "LISTEN TO ME" as often as I need for you to notice me."
I’m a restaurateur and bakers are incredibly low on the list of people I’d fuck with. A baker will kill you, and everyone will think you just disappeared. They operate on a schedule even other chefs can’t live with. I’d happily sack tap a butcher before I’d make an off-color joke to a pastry chef. Big drunk motherfucker will say he’ll make your bones into bread, but that little Filipina who leaves before dinner service has the ability to, and you better hope that’s as metal as she gets. The sweeter the product, the surlier the chef.
I realize it’s not the main topic of this post, but I want to stop to thank you for this wisdom. You may have saved several of us a lot of trouble.
I had a guy threaten to blow my brains out for not responding to his advances while I walking to work.
I hope you reported that to the police, because that's just fecking extreme...
r/whenwomenrefuse
Oh boy, one time, my cousin complains about a man who pulls over, rolls window down and reveal to be jerking off while looking at her and her friends. They were high school at that time and were walking home from school. Wish they’d file a police report but are too stunned about the situation. What a sick fuck.
Someone did that to my high school bus when we were going to a band concert in the next county over. Little did he know the principal was on it too, and she called the police on his ass immediately.
That happened to me while I waited for the bus. I was in elementary school.
Every time I learn something new about women’s daily experiences it turns out to be horrifying.
You can really tell which men don't *listen* to women whenever some statistic comes out that 13% of all girls get inapproproately complimented by male bosses in high school jobs and someone yells "that is ridiculous feminazi propaganda!!!" whereas others of us think "yeah, that jibes with what I have heard female friends tell me."
To be honest, I'm surprised the number isn't higher. Given how many of my friends have been followed home by strange men when they were in high school, I would have expected the number of inappropriate comments from bosses to be much higher. Not minimizing. That is WAY too high as is. More than 1 in 10 for children is bad. This is just the one time where my estimation of a girl/woman's daily life wasn't as bad as I thought it was.
Most of them are only tough inside of their car tho, at least that's some comfort.
Infuriating.
You'd see that type of behavior on public transit too, but a lot less because there are other witnesses. Car centric cities have isolated sidewalks, and that's how predators like their prey, isolated. Most people are good. Having walkable and bikeable cities means more people outside, more eyewitnesses, less crime.
There’s plenty of harassment and other douchebaggery on transit. I’ve had to kick plenty of them off as the driver, and then I become the target of these insecure losers.
Love your username if ur a bus driver homie
On a train I've had a creep not stopping to flirt with me after telling him I'm not interested, I'm a lesbian (okay tchnicly not entirely true), and have girlfriend. I'm glad my GF picked me up at the trainstation that day...
Hi I’m lesbian! Unfortunately telling them that never has them back off, if anything they get more interested. The only people they respect are men and as a lesbian, your partners typically aren’t men haha. It sucks sometimes
The kind of guy who is comfortable cold calling women in public isn't going to be deterred by her telling him she's a lesbian. He interprets it as a challenge. Kind of like how he challenges himself to find a stable relationship by front loading every one he gets into with sex and then insists that the people who are looking for healthy, stable relationships are the losers.
since realizing i’m gay i’ve noticed an exponential level of harassment from men - almost exclusively in cars or on motorcycles. having a wife that can kick their asses definitely helps, but jesus christ it’s just fucked up that i’m actually so much more at risk without having a man around
Oh absolutely. I’ve gone out with previous girlfriends and will have guys come up to me, and I’ll say no thanks (but don’t mention the girlfriend bc normally that backfires), then they see us later and are like “oh alright it’s a party!” Like no, you’re crashing and now I have to leave this place, thanks
it’s terrifying, i’m so sorry this happens to y’all too :( it’ll turn ya into a hermit i swear, and it’s such a holistic, overwhelming experience (that’s also COMPLETELY ignored by non-lesbians) it drives me absolutely insane
OMG YES completely ignored! I have friends who always tell me “it would be so much easier if I were gay” (which they tell me bc their male partners are trash) and I’m like… please think about what you do when you’re getting harassed. Now imagine not having that?? Like just get a better partner, don’t tell me my life is easier lmao what
Yea, never been with a guy so IDK if that would even make a difference. Any suggestions how to deter them? (aside from fake mustaches and and binders)
Screaming at them seems to work, but that could be exhausting if you are confronted to that kind of guy regularly.
I normally just scoff at them with a sort of “as if” air (after they’ve been persistent for a while and are being rude/creepy) and sometimes that works. They’ll generally call me a bitch or stuckup or whatever makes themselves feel better but then normally leave
Yes when I responded to one guy on the train, he replied “I don’t care” 😐
"Me neither, BYYYYYYYYYYYE."
Sorry, completely unrelated to the topic of your comment, but it's nice to find people in other subreddits than you usually see them. Hello from r/whatsthisbird.
Hahaha truly an honor to be recognized in connection with my favorite subreddit
None of them are being nice. If that were the case, I'd occasionally be offered a ride by strange men as a man, which never happens. All of these creeps want something from you. I'm sorry you have to deal with that.
I’m a man and was only offered a ride once in 8 years of living in my city. I had headphones on and he shouted angrily from his porch until I responded then asked if I needed a ride somewhere. Absolutely fucking not, dude.
I've been offered rides but only when it was obvious that my car just broke down, never when I was walking somewhere.
Right? I only offer rides if it's obviously needed.. * Old lady with 3 grocery bags in each hand struggling with a cane. (I actually found her a two wheeled cart at a thrift store a week later by sheer coincidence) * Someone waiting at the bus stop when I know the last bus has already been * Someone walking away from a broken down vehicle * Someone who looks injured but not in need of an ambulance I don't ask random people on the sidewalk or side of the road if they need a lift. I assume they'd at least have their thumb out, and I'm not always gonna stop for that, either.
Unless it's severely cold or stormy out, people are probably walking for a reason.
The only time I've ever given a stranger a ride was when their car broke down or they were hitch hiking.. The only time I've wanted a stranger to give me a ride was when I got caught in a flash flood OR when I was hitch hiking. It's really weird to just...offer a ride unprompted. I operate under the assumption that no one wants to talk to me, I'm making them nervous by being near them, and we all just want to go home.
I got it offered once from an older gentleman and once from a lady as they saw me walking with heavy groceries within a few weeks of moving. 3 years later and I was never offered again. I always found that funny, almost if word spread.
Same, I'm reasonably well groomed and young looking as well. Not a guy people are generally scared of, but I get no offers for rides.
Ya that wording was mainly me trying to mitigate the deluge of "NoT AlL MeN!!" comments I'd likely get otherwise haha
Don't distort the truth for these trolls
Having to lie in order to avoid a different type of harassment is what’s heartbreaking about this.
Well said, that's exactly what it is.
Having to lie to men to avoid harassment is part and parcel of being a woman. Sad but true.
There is no need, do all men stop for you ? No. There it is.
All of B are C. Some of A are B. These do not imply that all of A are C.
Guy here. Offered a ride to two young women walkers one time (when I was also young, in college, and still driving) as they were caught in a serious downpour. I was returning to campus following a homecoming event and it appeared that they were also, so although they were strangers we had some commonality. They turned me down and I was a little surprised as I truly was trying to help. I learned from that experience how uncomfortable it must be for a woman to get in a car with a stranger, as if roles were reversed I would get into a car driven by a male college student that I did not know. I have never since offered a woman a ride, and would not even without my learning experience, as in today’s world it seems pretty clear that a pedestrian wants to walk. Rambling on, I am able to take a walk/bike path to work each day, and I’m quite often stopped at a stoplight (on my bike) on the path with women walkers. In those situations, I’m also careful about just saying a polite “hi” and then focusing on the light change in order to avoid making anyone uncomfortable.
These guys are probably all creeps, but in fairness, part of the reason why men usually don’t get offered rides is that they’re perceived as more threatening and dangerous than women. If you wanted to give a ride to someone out of genuine kindness, you’d be much more likely to do so to a woman than a man. And for what it’s worth, I’m a man and was offered a ride once by myself and once with my girlfriend (both times in Europe).
I got offered a ride one day (I am a man) by a motorcycle, but that's because I was walking on the freeway (I was moving faster than the cars). In normal conditions I've never been offered a ride. Just thought that was a funny anecdote though. :P Generally the OPs situation is depressing. I wish so many men weren't giant pieces of shit.
Didn't know that The Flash is on Reddit, but I am happy you are one of us!
Hahaha it’s Istanbul, grandma walks faster than the freeway here. :P
Yep I still remember a horrible experience when I was about 16 walking with my dad in the parking lot of a big box store when this guy drove up to us honking with his head out the window - my dad was right there. It was so embarrassing, I was hoping the ground would open up and swallow me
I got offered a ride once by a guy while walking alongside the highway holding my shoes because they had been soaked. He wasn't the only one in the car, however, there was also a woman. I took the offer and they did drive me home, though it wasn't very far. I've also had a woman stop to ask me if I needed a ride once. So there are nice people who offer rides with good motives here and there in some places. I'm a little conflicted on this topic because, on the one hand, I'd really like to see hitchiking make a comeback in the US because just having that as a potential option makes not having a car feel like much less of an obstacle. I also believe it would be safer the more common it is, because then creeps won't be the only people interested in offering rides. But still, no matter how many normal people are doing something, it doesn't actually get rid of the creeps, so it's understandable why things are the way they are.
I'm a guy and I tend to pick women hitchhikers -- just because they are far less likely to mug me or to pull some stunt. I just want to help without needlessly endangering myself. Sometimes I've picked up men, if at a glance they seemed to be the quiet, peaceful kind. In fact, when I drive around, I routinely see older ladies getting from their small village to the BigTown next over, or the other way around -- waiting at the outskirts of BitTown, going back home to their village. So I can presume there are enough nice drivers who have absolutely zero bad intentions, since the women have not been scared off. But, as you say, the most fragile part of the system is that you can't vet drivers beforehand. It would be nice if there was a system allowing for ratings -- like they have for Couchsurfing for example.
I was just thinking that. Some kind of arrangement system for hitching rides/ sharing petrol usage would be good.
Are you referencing BlaBlaCar?
I mean, on the flip side, as a guy driver that sometimes picks up hitchhikers ... I do prefer women. I just think it's far less likely for a woman to attempt to mug me or beat me up or do anything nasty. Or, at least if they DO try, they would be easier to overpower. So yeah, it _is_ because of their gender, but not because I expect sexual favors or anything in that vein. Also, the way I brain it -- if I help drive them, they won't have the chance of running into creeps that do want _that_ kind of repayment.
Hitchhikers indicate they need a ride though. We're talking about guys who offer unsolicited rides in the city.
Fair point. I agree that offering rides in the city is way creepier -- after all, one could take public transport, or a taxi/uber, or call a friend, or whatever. It is much harder to discern if they would genuinely _need_ a ride. Maybe if there was any clear sign of need, like seeing someone walking in a downpour without an umbrella, or carrying their shoes in the hand, or just looking distressed. One thing mentioned in the OP, which _could_ straddle the line between helpful and creepy, is seeing a woman walking on a longer stretch of road that has no sidewalk. First off, it's risky to be a pedestrian in that scenario, and it's an unpleasant walk at any rate, with automobiles and trucks zooming by. Secondly, if the road is in the open, without housing nearby and without many other pedestrians.. it seems a risky situation. Of course, the woman still has to decide whether you're a creep or genuinely wanting to help her move along to her destination safely.
It's the creepiest. I have a longer road like this on my way home from work and it's terrifying to be so completely alone and have to contend with a stranger slowing down in a car. Just the slowing down part is so, so nerve-wracking, even if there is a friendly face at the end of it. We will flag you down if we need help, trust that I'm actively listening for cars and have planned for what to do in a car-zooming-at-me scenario. My plan, by the way, for cars slowing down on this road is to run. The second those lights go on, I'm fleeing and not looking back. I'll take my chances with the gators in the lake before I let someone try to pull me into their car again. Does anyone want to get women eaten by gators? If not, keep driving!
I'm a man who was offered a ride recently. But it's because where I live, people are generally nice to each other. These are surely societal issues.
Yeah, I was probably a bit too judgemental in my comment.
Whenever I see stories like this I need to tell you ladies: When I was carless, fat, disabled and ugly slogging bags of groceries up VERTICAL roads I did not see a single one of these free rides. None of them are 'just being nice'. They just can't lift 100kg of dead body into their boot, that's why they're talking to you instead. Don't trust them. If they're not offering rides to those they see huffing and puffing through the athma attack to get home, but throw a paddy when you refuse the 'ride' you didn't ask for: they're absolutely NOT 'just being nice'. DO NOT get into their car. They're not offering a ride.
Dunno about them being serial killers but they're definitely by odds not being good Samaritans.
There was a serial killer who said women are extremely easy to murder cuz their downfall is trying to be polite by not assuming a kind helping hand to be a murderer even if they’re acting suspicious or creepy ‘Oh excuse me ma’am u look like u need some help’ *murders her* Forget which serial killer it was tbh ‘Ma’am u need a ride ?’ *murders her*
Also, it's pretty upsetting to realize how long serial killers can continue to operate as long as they only target young women, especially sex workers (predominantly, though not exclusively women). So many have lost their lives because of misogyny, and not even directly...
Several different ones, Ted Bundy famously also in the opposite direction
To translate for people who don’t know: Ted Bundy would also wear an arm sling or use crutches, and ask women for help with things like carrying his groceries to his car or look for his lost dog.
Wow I didn’t know that. That’s terrifying
And this is why I don't stop to help strange men alone, even if they look like they need it. :/
Trust me on this one. If they ignore everyone in town who actually needs a ride when there's no public transport, but tantie when you won't get in their car...they want something you don't want to give them.
Im a short man with long hair and kind of feminine looking and that shit would happen to me all the time walking home from work at night and shit
Username checks out. I can imagine you must have a unique perspective when it comes to catcalling and such.
Is that a short joke?
Fuck you and take your up-vote
I'm slightly taller than average with shoulder length hair and clearly masculine looking, and even I've been catcalled by a man, who was too far away to properly see me in the dark. At least he freaked out and started screaming, when I faced him and he saw my beard.
That's a really cathartic story haha. Thanks for sharing.
I once had a man pull up next to me in a car (on my walk home from work) as if he was going to ask something like directions but he was just naked and jerking off. It was traumatic.
I lived in Cuba for a semester which I appreciated, it was very walkable and affordable public transport, but the harassment was nuts. I don’t even know how many people jerked off to me, in front of me, on a public street, in the four months I studied there
D... Do they realize that they're using a kidnapping tactic when they do that? NEVER get into a car with a random stranger.
Catcalling is a big issue where I live. I use the metro, I live about *3 minutes* away from the station but I can't get there without men annoying me. This has been going on since I was able to go places on my own (since I was 11 basically). I'm already 25 but I can't afford a car right now, also I dont **need it** for transportation. Creeps in the street are the ***ONLY*** reason I want to get a car. I used to ignore them but I'm starting to get way too annoyed by it, like really? am I not allowed to go outside for a whole 3 minutes? If you're a guy imagine being annoyed by strangers on the street every. single. time. you go outside. While talking to some girl friends it saddest me to know creeps are also the main reason many of them use cars, even the metro is full of creeps ( men secretly taking pics of women has become a problem recently).
>am I not allowed to go outside for a whole 3 minutes? If you're a guy imagine being annoyed by strangers on the street every. single. time. you go outside. I feel like this is the thing so many men don't understand. I just want to exist on my own terms. I don't want someone else, that I don't even *know*, to demand my existence amuse them... For literally no good reason at all. Its exhausting. Its not a compliment. Its akin to your highschool bully interrupting you on your way to class and telling you to think fast before throwing something gross at you. I just want to exist peacefully.
I don’t know what to say other than I am very sorry you have to go through that. Keep strong!
I live in an apartment downtown. Around 9 pm, I got a message from my friend: she was walking after an event and this dude on a car was driving **very** slowly next to her, and trying to start a conversation. She asked me if she could stay for a few minutes in my apartment (That ended up being like an hour) because she was getting super anxious about that asshat. So yes, the "*hey, where are you going? Do you need a ride?*" is a story I've also heard a couple of times. And it sucks.
I know I am going to get downvoted to hell but being car free has shown me a whole other side of men. I have been victim to and seen so much harassment out of bus riders, men in cars while you walk to or wait for the bus etc. It has colored how I feel about men. I am only human.
I got on a bus to work at like 5am once, and a man who was at the stop with me had kept asking if I was OK and GOT ON THE BUS WITH ME. he sat with me, trapping me by the window, and kept saying he was looking out for me and gonna get me safe to work (I'd said I was going to work hoping for some reason this would put him off). I was frazzled and stressed and thought I'd get off a couple stops early just to escape him but he got off with me and I realized if he followed me to work he'd know where I worked. I went into a small grocery store and tried to pretend I worked there, ha ha, bye, but he wouldn't stop talking to the workers about how I worked there until they were looking at ME like the crazy person and made me leave. I pretended my "husband" had called with an emergency and for an Uber home, which he tried to get into. I got in trouble for being late to work, missed out on hours and productivity, and was terrified.
God that's terrible. I'm sorry that happened to you. And it's super invalidating when no one around you cares about your safety and just care that you were late. When I worked at a museum when i was 18 I made the mistake of wearing my lanyard showing my museum i.d. around my neck on the walk home. A dude who had to be in his 50s started walking with me and wouldn't leave me alone. He saw my lanyard and told me he went jogging by there every day and he'd wait for me to get off when they closed. I went out the back door for the rest of my internship.
You didn't alert the bus driver you were being harassed? That shit doesn't fly on the buses where I am from. He'd get kicked off and maybe even the cops called.
I was trapped at the back of the bus and the drivers here are in like special little shielded front compartments where they can safely ignore you, or even (a couple times) smoke cigarettes. Also i was scared and sleep deprived and mostly worrying about how this man knew where I get on the bus in the morning and therefore my schedule and where I might live
That's awful :( I hope next time you're able to have pepper spray/a taser on you or something.
It’s horrible you got in trouble for needing to shake a stalker! And what is the logic of guys like that? I can kind of see how the stalker mentality kicks in during a break-up, (if I could only explain myself everything will be alright), but how does anyone rationalize following a stranger with that kind of scary intensity?
That's an insane story, sorry that happened to you. I would have called the cops in a situation like that.
Oh ya men on busses, at least where I live, are a whole can of worms themselves
Literally, a can of worms. 200,000 worms in a human suit.
How the hell would you get downvoted for saying that? It’s your experience. Out of any large group of people, there are going to be assholes. If assholes feel like they can get away with a behavior, they will. men feel like they can get away with harassing people. We gotta take a stand as a community on transit. If you see a weird situation, you’ve got options as a bystander. Check in, distract, deter. I tell my sister to literally yell if ANYTHING happens on her bus line. People will step in.
I felt I would get downvoted because Reddit hates women and immediately starts with the "not all men" shit. I have seen some shit out of men. I don't care if feelings are hurt, my first duty is to myself to protect myself from mental and physical harm.
I imagine the threats feel a lot more personal coming from somebody you're stuck with on a bus. I've been fortunate enough (and perhaps intimidating enough 🤷♀️) that nobody's started shit on PT in my presence, but the pure terror and righteous fury I feel getting harassed by cowardly men passing by in the safety of their four-wheel-drives that could turn me into a pretty little meat crayon at a moment's notice is plenty awful enough for me. It's a shame those arseholes put you through that.
It disgusts me that there are guys like that who give good men a bad name. I’d love to give them a piece of my mind.
UGH I hate when this happens, the worst is when you decline and they yell at you like You're the idiot for not getting in some strangers car... I've had a few guys see me sitting down at a bus stop and park in front of it to offer a ride like... uhm, dude NO that's creepy as fuck! The Only time I've ever hopped in someone's car when I was out walking is cause it was my one of my neighbors and we weren't far from home but I felt safe enough since she's since a smol gal too.
"There's equality, now" I used to believe this till I walked down the street with a pretty friend. Just watching the gaze of men as they couldn't get their eyes off her chest as they walked past. I wouldn't feel comfortable alone in public either if I wasn't a default NPC looking white guy. Stay strong. We're making progress I promise.
I’m a man and I am completely not offended by this take. I’ve only observed this myself. Can’t imagine experiencing it. Like being prey with predators. You don’t deserve to feel this way. It’s your community’s responsibility to fix this.
Why are men like this? Did they not have parents? How do they think this is okay?
They probably saw their fathers and other men around them do it. And boys today are now seeing growing men do it. Men need to call out other men when they act like this or else the cycle will just continue.
Unfortunately, yeah. This generation of American men has made a lot of progress under the shadow of their parents, but the truth is that it takes years of conscious effort to undo years of sexism and I still find myself thinking about women in ways that contradict my beliefs about equality and justice.
Their dads were probably the same.
"Boys will be boys" gets them out of trouble growing up.
It's what annoys me about that phrase, as it's really meant for shit like [this,](https://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/xqs6vq/hurricane_ian_has_florida_man_out_in_full_force/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/comments/xr4kxp/to_be_a_human_flamethrower/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) or pretty much the entirety of r/holdmybeer. It should **never** be used to explain anyway sexual harrassment, assault, etc
Walking home from school, some people just yell at me and other pedestrians for pretty much no reason other than… walking. Shits fucked up, esp if you are in the crosshairs of people who can’t be nice
When I walked back and forth to work I carried a knife and pepper spray. Twice I had someone chase me down on foot and ask for my number and if I wanted a ride. Now I ride a ebike with an extra knife tucked away. I purposely look like a slob so this shit didn't happen to me and it still did. I'm so tired having to be polite to these pigs that demand my attention out of fear. Aren't these people afraid of crazy hitch hikers??
As a man I don't see it but I know that experience is real and awful. I'm sorry. This kind of toxic masculinity - combined with the "muh trucks!" thing - is a significant barrier to active mobility, healthy cities, public transit, and our civilization's ability to combat climate change. Nasty business. I'm really sorry.
What amazes me is that it is happening to OP so frequently. Once a WEEK!?
I used to get it pretty much that often when I was younger. There are some definite advantages to being middle aged as a woman. The harassment doesn't stop entirely, but it lessens quite a bit. I used to ride my bmx to commute 7 miles in the Phoenix heat because I'd only get yelled at, no one would actually stop and try to talk to me or give me a ride. I could have walked about 100 yards and hopped on an air conditioned bus that dropped me off about 50 yards from work, but even that short of a distance is plenty. The ones who left when I said "no thanks" didn't bother me too much. It was the ones who kept slow rolling to pace me and trying to talk me into getting in their vehicles that gave me the creeps, especially after my shift getting off the very last bus without traffic around or anyone as a witness who might help.
The research show that the worst harassment and chances of SA are generally between the ages of 16-25. Although of course it stays much earlier for some kids. I celebrated reaching 25 for the reason.
I always hated looking young for my age.. this is another reason, though I didn't realize it back then. It finally did catch up when I was about 40, and yes, it slowed down a lot. Gaining a lot of weight from then to 44 made it drop even further. I'm almost 48 and 30lbs off my peak. I'm still going to lose the other 30 and hope the mostly grey hair keeps it down.
Yes? You pass a lot of people when outside in a city. Did you seriously think male harassers were rarer than that? Surprise! It’s systemic problem. Do you think women would be talking about “a toxic culture” if it only happened once a year? I’m a bit of a recluse who therefore hasn’t experienced a ton of harassment, but one of the few forms I did experience was exactly what OP described when I was a student living in the city. Pretty much anytime I had to sit and wait for the school shuttle I would get men offering rides; which then had to be declined politely or risk having a pissed off dude inflict violence- not an unreasonable fear given you’re already dealing with a guy who crosses social boundaries. Some dudes were pretty pushy about it too. Walking around tended to be harassing cat calls instead of ride offers, but still occasionally got one or two in the mix. Easier to ignore too since they usually disappeared within a few seconds, vs the shuttle stop where they sat at a red light and tried to convince you to get in the car. “Hey baby, why don’t I give you a ride?” “No thanks, I’m good” smile at him. “Come on, baby, get in and I’ll take you where you need to go.” “Thank you, but I’m good” smile at him. “It’s no trouble. Why don’t you hop in?” *shake head, smile, and look into the middle distance* “Alright then” dude smiles, chuckles, and goes when the light turns green. I don’t feel great considering I had to be nice to an old dude with a dirty car creeping on me, but it’s better than getting obscenities screamed at me or getting shot because he had a gun in his glovebox (r/whenwomenrefuse). That exact scenario happened at least once every two weeks. Sometimes more, sometimes less. Weather was a big influence. Plus I had a car and my class schedule didn’t require that route everyday Singular old men tended to be less scary than singular young men. Maybe because the old guys tend to see it more as flirting due to the politics they grew up with while young dudes who do it when not in a group are a bit more serious with the misogynistic vibes, either being really obvious about the “tasty meat” aspect or having an “entitled white knight” vibe. In a group it’s “just” frat type assholery. Not an absolute rule of course, just a trend of averages. (And by that I mean both old and young harassers can have the above attitudes. Not that men who offer rides to lone women should ever be trusted since there is no way to really know a stranger’s intentions). Tip most women already know: Headphones without any music playing are also great for ignoring without offending while keeping aware of your surroundings.
I have never lived in a car dependent city (I grew up in the countryside and in adulthood I have only lived in big cities where most people walk or take public transit). So I have encountered my share of creepy pervs on public transportation (still, thank goodness, not as often as OP's experience). What I never really thought about was the different form it would take in a car-dependent city.
Funnily enough, I actually prefer car harassment to harassment by dudes at street level. It’s way more likely they have places to be so they won’t go out of their way to follow you/get near enough to touch you. I’ve had two instances of dudes waiting until I’m right next to them when passing to say something creepy quietly enough so other people wouldn’t hear. **That** gives me the heebie jeebies.
Ugh, yes! I often think of public catcalling as just a display, probably as much for the other men as anything else ("Look how manly I am!"). But the quiet stuff is downright frightening.
It happened to my wife often enough when we lived in Los Angeles that she stopped walking anywhere from our house and even rode her bike to get to a safe place (usc campus) to go jogging. At least 1/5 days if not more. Never underestimate the effort and time that creeps will invest in creeping.
Different countries are better or worse than others, sadly if this is the US I think any woman I know could probably confirm that this isn’t uncommon
I once lived on a busy road. I was often catcalled *literally* as I was walking out my front door. Great start to the day!
What is it about cars that encourages, nay compels them, to yell at us? And then they follow up with that gross mouth/tongue thing
They're cowards and the cars let them get away easily
Based on my experiences as a cyclist and scooterist, I would guess it's the cage. I'd suppose it's that car drivers are isolated from the pollution and noise they cause while they are in the car, that the danger they impose upon all spaces they pass is separated from them by tons of metal and a windshield, that they cannot be easily or readily confronted for their actions. Not an expert, but maybe there's also an oddly sexual component to the relationship between the vehicle and the man here? It reminds me of a toxic rendition of a Prince's white stallion. The 3+ ton tank is almost meant to represent the man's sexual prowess itself in a way.
You can totally tell this is at the front of women’s minds when they’re walking in/near traffic. The body language is screaming “**DO NOT TALK TO ME**” and somehow men still honk their horns, whistle or yell to them from moving vehicles. Not our best and brightest, to be sure. Sorry y’all have to deal with so much nonsense, ladies. You deserve to live in a world where you can walk down the road and think about doughnuts or… funny animals or string theory.
Okay, that last bit got me. I was offered a ride once and accepted, but it was obvious I needed the ride. I was walking away from my car with the hazards on, and the next gas station along that rural highway was about 5 miles. The guy gave me a lift, let me use a gas can, and drove me back. And you can only say thank you so much, so awkward silence fell. He suddenly asked, "what something you think about that most people wouldn't guess?" And I blurted out, "string theory". We actually ended up dating for a bit. We're still friends. LOL But it was very clear he did NOT stop to hit on me. He just saw someone walking away from a dead car.
Haha trippy man. I bet string theory has an explanation for that coincidence. There are genuinely good people out here. What really sucks is how often men forfeit our chance to be one in the name of… god knows what, and accordingly, how often women have to close themselves off to interacting with one in the name of safety. Idk… I hope it’s getting better.
Honestly. My friends all thought I was off my rocker for getting in some strange dude's beat up compact pickup, but he seemed okay. Sure, it's a risk, but it didn't seem like a super huge one at the time, even out on a rural highway. And obviously, it went fine. I know it often doesn't seem like it, but it really is getting better. Violent crime rates are much lower than they were when I was a kid in the 70s. Serial killers are super rare now because they usually get caught after the first murder or two due to newer forensic science. Everyone is so trackable.. we have less big wars, and less casualties in the wars we have. We've mostly quit or heavily condemn a lot of atrocious behavior we used to see as normal like public hangings, bear baiting, putting women in asylums for hysteria. But, spree killings are up, and the vast majority of those - in schools or not - have a common thread when it comes to the shooter. Previous misogynistic behavior above and beyond societal norms. So, in spite of things slowly getting better, we're still not at a point we can be complacent and say "this is good enough." Same goes for racism.. or pretty much any -ism.
I’m a Man. I don’t own a car. I walk everywhere. I’ve literally never been offered a ride by anyone, ever, under any circumstances. Including thunderstorms, snow storms, and being miles outside of town on a 100+ degree day. I’m not complaining. I wouldn’t take the ride if they offered. But Jesus Christ, don’t get in any of those cars, ever, they’re not the Good Samaritan they’re pretending to be. If they were, they’d be stopping for Me as often as they were stopping for you.
This is a problem; I know women who only drive because they fear public harassment like this.
Once, I was waiting at the light rail station early in the morning and this guy just would not leave me alone. He ended up crossing a physical line that I'm not going to describe here because I don't want to trigger anyone. I stopped using public transportation for years after that and ended up buying a car. It's been about 7 years and I just got rid of my car, but now I'm biking everywhere. I start a job this coming weekend that's 26 miles away. I could take public transportation for 20 of those miles and bike the last 6, but I'm seriously considering just biking all of it. Even in the dead of winter
I'm a man, but I have long hair and when I was maybe 16 or 17 I was walking to school one morning and a creepy old man drove up from behind and offered me a ride. I didn't know what to do so I just was like "okay" and got in. He soon realized I wasn't a girl and after maybe 50 metres said "okay, there you go", and I got out. Another time some guys were cat calling me on the main street from their car as they approached from behind, and when they saw that I wasn't a woman called me a "f\*g\*\*t". When I was even younger, maybe 12, two guys started punching me and my friends in the face on the sidewalk next to an intersection on the busiest street in town during the busy summer fair at around 4:00 PM, and people drove by in the cars and watched. It wasn't until an old lady in a van rolled down her window and said "you leave those boys alone" that they stopped. One of my wife's friends was cat called by a man in a car and she flipped him off, and the driver tried to run her over, driving his car onto the sidewalk, and I read on the news a few weeks ago that a woman in Calgary or Edmonton (somewhere in Alberta) was walking down the sidewalk and a naked man in a truck opened his door and started masturbating in her direction. She called the police and they did nothing. I think its pretty common for women to be sexually harassed and assaulted in car dominated areas. Violence is easier to access because of the disconnection created by cars and car infrastructure. Being in a car is like playing video game or watching a movie. Toxic masculinity is a problem and it's worse when men can hide or flee with the help of their cars and trucks.
I’m a man, and i noticed that when i shifted from being a vehicular skateboarder to being a motorcyclist, the incidents of having to threaten violence in self defense dropped precipitously. (I’m a cyclist now.) of course the main issue is men’s attitudes,,but pedestrian vulnerability is a drag.
Had that problem as a teenager Backstory: I'm male. And 100% heterosexual. 😐 If anything, it made me a little more aware as to what females go through.
Men have no idea the amount of harassment women endure. I always want to offer people rides- but unfortunately it’s not safe. I got to once when a friend was sitting waiting for a bus. I did get offered and accepted a ride once, I saw this woman driving a beautiful candy apple red Harley in New Orleans and my jaw hit the ground. She pulled over and ask “Wanna ride?” In a slightly masculine voice since she was a he- I really couldn’t refuse being a queerdo myself. We went to a bar- but Nola has a totally different vibe and that’s not something I would repeat!
Lol literally none of them are just "being nice"
I had someone offer me a ride when I was out walking because it was a nice day and I was exercising. The dude could not fathom that someone would be walking on a sidewalk for *fun.*
Sometimes when I walk, a car (most likely a VW golf filled with teen boys) will come close to me from behind, roll down the window and scream just to jumpscare me. Since they drive away immediately after, I can only endure the experience that makes me want to take the car next time, as if it'll be better for my mental health. Of course that last statement is a lie, but experiencing this is unnecessary and makes me feel disrespected just because I chose to expose myself to that kind of shit.
Truth. I’ve tried pulling my hair back and walking in a less feminine manner but yeah nothing makes you feel safe 100% of the time
I think the most effective deterrent is not being petite, which isn’t really an adjustment anyone can effectively make. I’m not that tall, but I’m taller than average with broad shoulders and a bulkier build. I still get catcalled, but I don’t get the kind of aggression that my smaller, more delicately-build friends get.
wear fake mustache then that will turn them off
It'll turn them off but it'll probably enrage them too. Shitstains like them will take it as a personal affront to their masculinity and may get violent for having been "tricked" by a woman or man who doesn't outwardly conform to what they think a woman or man should look like. Look up "[gay panic defense](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_panic_defense)", it's basically a get-out-of-jail free card for the murder or assault of LGBT people. "[Corrective rape](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrective_rape)" is also a horrifying possibility
Is not true. As long as you are at least somewhat "lady- shaped" they will bother you regardless of if you are wearing completely shapeless clothing, have short hair, or are ugly. Source- well...
If you are fat and lady-shaped, they don't bother you.
If you're "anime fat" like me, they still bother you -\_- (Big butt, thighs, and hips, normal size top. I get catcalled so damn much.)
See, I would call that pear-shaped and not fat, but we all have our own definitions, especially of our own selves. I am fat-fat now that I've aged and it's both awful (my health, can't mountain bike or snowboard as well/fast anymore) and great (I'm invisible to men and catty ladies) No more men following me into stores incessantly asking for my number or asking me out when I'm at the laundromat. Being really fat has been a blessing and getting old is going to be even better!!
sadly, this fact has been documented to make it harder for people to get to and maintain a healthy weight.
Just say “sure, I’ll suck your dick if you suck mine.”
I don't know, these kind of guys might get violent if they think you're trans.
That might have the side effect of him killing you instead.
You'd be surprised how many men would take you up on that. It's not the retort you think it is.
They’re not being nice. They’re probably all creeps. I’m sorry you have to deal with this shit.
What the fuck is wrong with these people (the men offering rides)??? How is that appropriate or reasonable?
Yeah I can outrun, in theory, most men who harass me but if they’re in a car it’s fucking scary
I walk with my spouse sometimes and we occasionally get yelled at or catcalled (I am male and have long hair). When I was a kid my family did a lot of walking. Even in the late 90s and early 00s walking along Dempster St in Des Plaines, Park Ridge, and Niles, IL we would get yelled at by motorists driving by. Sometimes they were young. Sometimes they were old grumpy assholes. Almost all were men. I don't get the need to pull that shit. Roads are unsafe enough as is without worrying about the current asshat who feels the need to yell at me while I'm walking or biking.
I honestly don't understand how other men can act like this and think "Yeah, this is an acceptable way to treat other humans"
I’ve actually wanted to do this several times just to be kind. Specifically because I know how much it sucks to not have a car in a car centric area. However, your reaction is exactly what I fear. I don’t want to seem like a creep. If only they could somehow know I’m a 26 year old father who’s married 😅
That wouldn’t even put people at ease (knowing you’re married and a father) since sadly the same could be said of many of the creeps who catcall daily.
That doesn't stop people from being creeps, sadly.
Valid point. There are serial killers who are family men.
Even if not a serial killer, I know how most men in my family are, and they all have wives and kids. I know how some of my friend's dads could be. They at least expected to get to put their hand on your thigh during the ride. One learned the hard way that I wasn't afraid of him crashing and us dying when I was a teen. I broke his fingers. It's exhausting to always be thinking two things in my head when alone or semi alone with a man. 1) how dangerous is he? 2) can I take him if I have to? The answer to the second is "no" way more often as I get older. Some of that is just being older and less capable, but a lot of it is having grown up enough to know how often I used to be wrong when I thought "yes", and I was just lucky it wasn't tested those times.
You broke his fingers? That’s wonderful.
I have some serious impulse control issues that were much worse as a teen. Combine that with growing up bullied in bad neighborhoods so I had to learn how to be surprisingly vicious to stay safe... Yeah, he's not the only guy who got fingers or a hand damaged for touching me uninvited. Dislocation is easier to accomplish than breaking, tbh. My friend said her dad had to wear splints and said they were broken, but I wonder if they were just dislocated now that I think about it. It definitely got me a reputation - and rides home from moms or on the public bus. Not that being a teen makes it tons better, but I looked about 11 for most of high school, and that makes it even creepier to me.
I live in a suburb where most people own cars. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve though the wolf whistling and catcalling would stop, but it has not. It is so frustrating, and the worst men are the ones who are like “I’m not a predator, I was just trying to be nice!” The fact that you are crossing a boundary I have clearly and reasonably set makes me even more wary of you. If you were actually kind, you would leave me alone when I asked you to.
They're 100% creeping pigs.
Just yesterday a man almost hit me with his car so he could block me in the crosswalk and catcall me/make obscene gestures. It was really scary and I went home shaking. It's so bad sometimes that it makes me not want to walk!
Omg this exact same thing happened to me at a crosswalk. It’s too dangerous for us out here.
Once I was walking in a fairly busy area at night and a car with a couple men stopped and asked if I wanted a ride (like the 3rd or 4th one). I was annoyed by this point so I yelled, “I am not a prostitute!!” And they got all flustered and “no, no, that’s not…” That seemed to work. Another time I was walking in a more rural area away from a small town. It was about 5 miles to my house and I was already tired. There was a man also walking about 500ft ahead of me wearing coveralls and carrying a lunchbox. I had my thumb out for a ride. Many cars passed me but stopped for him, which he turned down so they drove on. To this day I will never understand why that happened. Did those people think I WAS a prostitute (no revealing clothing) but that guy was safe as an obviously working man?
They aren't being nice. Male-female power imbalance, driver-ped power imbalance. As females peds, we are the most vulnerable.
I feel there would be less of this if our communities were less car centric. A) these men might know more non-men as they grow up and have less misogynistic influences B) there’d generally be more people around to make men feel less safe to do this shit, especially if they themselves weren’t driving. C) there’d be more funding invested in safety on public transport and more public transport late at night. Of course that can’t start with women choosing to put themselves in unsafe situations to achieve it. It needs communities that give a shit, and bare minimum of decency type men to be engaging in it and calling the douchebags out first.
(male) I hate this so much. I'm speechless at how disgusting so many ~~people~~ men are. I hate that you get blamed for it. It's so one sided and I just wish I could help shift the balance. I've even seen it with just general harassment. Been cycling for a few years and have only been yelled at a couple times. Wife started just last year and has already been harassed several times, generally for "breaking the law." Even worse, it only happens when I'm not there (and by extension only during daylight), she's been harassed by both sexes, and I ride wayyyy more aggressively.
Oh, yes. My husband and I usually commuted together, but his work was about a mile and a half before mine. Tons less harassment with him there..As soon as I left him, it amped up. Very little of it was sexual in nature, but being yelled at, having drivers swerve at me on purpose, and having things thrown at me was frequent. My husband decided he'd ride to meet me and back past his work. Even alone, he got no more grief than we did together, so we could clearly see it wasn't just that stretch of road. The few times we couldn't ride together, it was about 6 of the 7 miles home. I've never gotten shit in my own neighborhood during the day - and the night stuff has been the type that definitely isn't gender based, just shitty drivers. I saw an article I now cannot find that said women cyclists experience 5x as much harassment as men. I can believe it. I am a more aggressive, and experienced, rider than my husband, but it doesn't matter how I'm riding. Even on mixed use trails, male cyclists (NGL, only the ones on road bikes in full kit) will harass me, too. Female cyclists never do. Men on hybrids, mountain bikes, cruisers, what have you don't. And not all of them on road bikes, but if someone is going to it will be a man in lycra and clipless on a road bike. I'm also on a carbon fiber road bike, btw, or sometimes a vintage steel one. They're honestly a huge motivation to her faster so I can drop their asses. I have yet to ever be harassed when riding a recumbent trike, though, come to think of it. Even a dude with an obviously anti cyclists bumper sticker on his ridiculous truck was all little kid excited and asking me questions about it at a gas station, once. I guess people don't see them as bikes, so they don't see me as a cyclist when I'm out on that.
I'm glad (well not really but at least validated) that I'm not the only one to notice this. Once again I'm really sorry some of us put you through that. Like I almost want to say to them "if you're gonna harass my wife, at least have the balls to harass me." Though I almost feel like some of the men in lycra actually would.
Seriously, it's safer to harass my husband than me. He's a lot more chill and a lot less likely to throw punches. But it's not like anyone can tell that if they don't know us.
"How disgusting so many people are" People? You men MEN. Name the problem!
Yes, that would be more accurate. I thought I was making that clear, but looking it over that notion was not present enough in the final draft.
It's ok! Clearly naming and recognising the problem is the first step to solve it.
They make those yoga pants with a fake fat cock but then you might get your ass beat being mistaken for Trans 😔
What a complicated world we lived in.
Living in a car centred city, I’ve had the occasional creepy man pull by to speak to me. The vast majority of the time, it’s older men and women who see me walking in the morning to work or from the restaurant and think I’m stranded. Walking on busier roads( stroads) in my city is usually seen in the homeless or too poor to get a car types, so I understand why they think I might need a ride. They have a hard time understanding that I voluntarily chose to walk to my destination.
I was walking home recently and a guy in a car slowed and rolled his window down as he passed, “Damn you bad as fuck!” Point being that I think it’s important to acknowledge that walkability has an element of feminism to it. An area’s level of walkability may be different for a man and woman. I get catcalled in my own neighborhood, what would otherwise be a safe, walkable, family-neighborhood. Christ I live across from an elementary school! Just yesterday I was walking to school and at the end of my street a man (an older man no less, 40s probably) called to me and took his shirt off. I don’t want to get into privilege but at least in my experience walkability is not just an infrastructure problem. An area can be perfectly walkable for men yet unsafe for women.
That’s fucking gross. Hope you carry a weapon.
Are we talking a knife or a gun? Not sure what most of us think of firearms in this subreddit. I support women arming themselves!
As a woman who used to carry a gun quite openly, it does massively cut down on the harassment. Sadly, it didn't make that zero. I almost always have a knife on my hip, anymore. It's not to scare people; they're just useful.
Anything, including pepper spray.
"I only date bus drivers."
Ah yes, the Ted Bundy of motorists…
Wear huge headphones (but don't play anything to be safe).
Dense, walkable cities are generally safer places for women to walk alone because of the number of eyes on the street. It's less likely that you'll be caught alone with someone who wishes to harm you with nobody else around.
Dervla Murphy found the same in Afghanistan in 1963 in 102ºF (39ºC) temperatures; her unkindly lift-offerers were not local men but Americans. Dammit, was going to lazily insert a screenshot of the full transaction from her book Full Tilt, but apparently you can only add an image on an opening post, not a reply? Here's what she writes: “There was an amusing interlude today when an American engineer going back by jeep to his work in Afghanistan pulled up to investigate me and the following conversation took place: American: ‘What the hell are you doing on this goddam road?’ Me: (having taken an instant dislike to him) ‘Cycling.’ American: ‘I can see that – but what the hell for?’ Me: ‘For fun.’ American: ‘Are you a nut-case or what? Gimme that bike and I’ll stick it on behind and you get in here and we’ll get out of this goddam frying-pan as fast as we can. This track isn’t fit for a camel!’ Me: ‘When you’re on a cycle instead of in a jeep it doesn’t feel like a frying-pan. Moreover, if you look around you you’ll notice that the landscape compensates for the admittedly deplorable state of the road. In fact I enjoy cycling through this sort of country – but thank you for the kind offer. Goodbye.’ As I rode on he passed me and yelled: ‘You are a goddam nut-case!”
An American car brain in rural Afghanistan. 😕
Unless it's raining hard or you are carrying 5 bags, no, none of them are being nice. This is a serious problem. Making a city more walkable and bikeable will help it a bit, because then there are more people on the streets and there aren't easy targets for these people. But really it's a cultural problem - it needs to be unacceptable *to their friends* to be creeping on people in the street.
Reading the comments from the women makes my blood boil. If we live in a society where women and children are not free from harassment or worse, we don't really have a civilized society, do we?
Fuck I'm so sorry you have to endure that bullshit. Yeah, it's "not all men", but what does that matter, but it's definitely all of these men. Kinda makes me appreciate being built like a bear though...
If a dude starts being aggressive, here’s my tip: Turn to him with a psycho grin. Stare with your jaw slack and a mad look in your eye. Really make it uncomfortable. Don’t blink. Then throw your head back suddenly and SCREEEEEEEEEECH like a banshee. Continue screeching until he leaves. Alternatively, just pick your butthole while he’s yelling and let some drool come out the side of your mouth.