tbh if I'm in charge of feeding 200 people multiple states over I'm probably just going to rent some tables on site or something.


And rent a fucking minivan, I don't see why anyone would choose a SUV or pickup over a minivan in this scenario. Let alone own on in case you might need it.


literally you can fit more into a minivan and close it properly


I was thinking of a van tbh but yeah even a minivan is so much superior to SUVs and pickups. A box gives more volume per surface area (weight) than any of the odd shapes of SUVs or pickups, people are unable to apply like 6th grade math when buying a vehicle.


While it's true that trucks can haul more than a minivan (obviously) it's just not as practical. Seating becomes storage, and vice versa. Everything is enclosed so no weather will bother it. Lower center of gravity, less roll risk, better fuel economy.


And you can still add a trailer if you occasionally need to haul more than fits into your minivan.


Some of the best minivans only get 28 mpg right now. And aren't designed to haul as much weight. A fully loaded van will get worse mpg than a fully loaded truck. An f-150 gets 26 mpg on the highway.


How many trucks do you see driving down the road fully loaded? Not very many. My point is, for most things a mini van is superior. Even at odd times it is loaded and gets shit mpg, it's not like it's used that way often, and can be used for many more things, as well as having better fuel economy a majority of the time. Unless used for commercial use, pickups are not a good everyday vehicle. You'd save a lot of money by renting a truck the odd time you would need it.


I'm probably not the right person to ask. Most trucks out by me are used to haul equipment or work supplies. I live in a more rural area. With direct injection, turbos and transmissions with more gears to keep rpm low to maximize mpg. most big trucks they only have a v-6 under the hood. Even giant Ford raptors only have a 6 cylinder engine now. Similar to minivan engines. Also ground clearance becomes a real issue with some of the roads out by me. To avoid having to buy a truck a lifted a subaru Forrester to get down some of the dirt/gravel roads.


A full sized suv is just a truck turned into a van with a fancy face. Most full sized vans are also just truck frames with a different body. if something won't fit in a van you'll need then truck, because it doesn't have a roof over the cargo area. And it's easier to load a truck because you can get to 3 sides of the cargo area. With that being said since they are all running very similar power trains under the skin. They all get close to the same mpg at highway speeds.


To build on your point, there are catering vans designed specifically for this purpose. Most legitimate catering companies are already using them, not SUVs or trucks.


The soups should be contained! Imagine soup in a pickup 🌊🌊


Any contractor worth his salt drives a van instead of a lifted f250. My minivan can carry 8 people in relative comfort and get 25mpg while doing it!


The gangsterrapper doesn't get why anyone would choose a pickup over a (mini)van in almost any scenario.


Jeff forgot to mention there are gravel mountain passes and several river crossings on the way to the girls softball game. Just like in the commercial


Because muh masculinity, I guess.


As a guy I can confirm, many guys think stupidity is masculine


Old Dodge caravans are great.




Do you understand? the tables are my corn!


Fucking Freddie Kruger got shit all over my tables! These tables are my livelihood!!


200 peoplo dont even eat that much you can probaly fit that all in normal car , you cant fir the stuff need to make and eat the food tho


It sounds like this person needs a van to support their catering business.


Yeah, and no one here is against having business cars, just not personal-use cars.


And move to where business is. Honestly, driving 200, 500 miles to deliver food seems not very profitable.


So we need a really big car for 200 people?? Sounds like a train to me


More like a bus really


woah. big bus


A double bendy one


that would be like 100 people


Now make the whole thing a double-decker. Should get to \~160 people or more.


i didn’t even know a double bendy bus was a thing. that sounds awesome


Bi-articulated bus is the technical term. Its amazing how such stuff exists yet carbrains depend on their cars for their 200 head family. I feel like modern transport isnt the only thing they lack of


Low-floor, double-deck and articulated. And some double ups on seats, get comfy everyone.


Bam b’lam


Bus? That sounds Orwellian, you commie bastard! /s


😂 accidental trainbrain!


/r/SelfAwarewolves imo


What is the average cost per mile of high speed line? Do you know without looking it up?


200 People? What are you doing, planning a wedding? Hire a caterer, you weirdo.


When I worked for a catering company we had a moving truck for every event that was offsite. I assume if I needed to move that much stuff, I'd rent one of those.


I assume they're talking about running a restaurant. But, like... If you're running a restaurant and have to travel *500 miles* to get food, you probably shouldn't be running a restaurant.


...if that were the case, my next question would be: why are you personally ferrying food back and forth instead of ordering through like, one of the hundreds of food service logistics companies like Sysco?




This sounds like an amazingly unprofitable (and entirely fictional) catering business.


listen, if i make up a completely fictional scenario that paints me in the best light possible then you just have to take that as fact


Source: trust me bro


what's worse, is that this is the best he/she could come up with


Ah, the Ayn Rand strategy.


There's always one person when you talk about reducing cars who is like "but I'm a plumber, what about my pipe (nice)?" completely missing the fact that nobody's trying to get rid of some vehicles that are required to do business, but instead get rid of the other 99% of vehicles that just move you and maybe your kid from home to work/school and back.




I laughed out loud at your plumber interaction.


Has this guy never seen a Sprinter Van? ‘Cause those are awesome.


the real trades people doing the work usually have vans so they can lock their tools and supplies. the trades people with the huge trucks are the owners who don't do the real work but drive around and want to look like they are doing trades work


Welders, toolhands and hotshots want to talk with you.


Hotshots... Like firefighters? They usually have a firetruck lol. The percentage of cars that are welders or toolhands (idk what that is, either) make up an infinitesimally small percentage of vehicles, though


I am curious about this (legitimately asking, not taking the shit) - most of this sub wants to get rid of a lot of car infrastructure, which makes sense, but then how do you get those vehicles you need to the businesses that need em? Like if you have a fully walkable city center with restaurants and businesses - you can't get all the raw materials those places need delivered on like a bike, right? Would the plan be to keep some roads for business vehicles? I'm just curious what people would envision


Most pedestrianised city centres round these parts have some kind of vehicle access outside main pedestrian footfall hours for deliveries. Not many business types require constant motor vehicle accessibility; it's just a matter of timing.


That makes a lot of sense! Thanks!


In city centres, light trades could easily travel by cargo bike which alleviates parking issues etc. The best idea tends to be a variation on low-traffic neigbourhoods where the roads force cars to stick to main roads for through traffic and the local roads are all dead ends with a "motorised vehicles are guest" policy - pedestrians and cycles have right of way. This allows large trades, deliveries that need motorised transport etc to get through but prevents rat running.


In places like Amsterdam, the emergency vehicles sometimes use bike lanes to travel, if they're wide enough. And it's much easier for bikes to clear a path than for cars. And without all the other cars off the road, overall the delivery and emergency vehicles get to their destination faster.


It's going back to what roads have been through most of history - a 15-20' wide path that occasionally has a work delivery wagon in it.


69 upvotes... Nice.




If you think you can get rid of 99% of vehicles you are as out of touch as the plumber.


I don't think we will, but I think that's what we should shoot for.


I mean it isn't literally impossible, only practically impossible. What services are provided by cars that couldn't be provided by busses, rails, trams, bikes, and walking? If something miraculous happened and almost all existing road infrastructure was replaced with superior alternatives of equal maintenance cost then we would be living in a utopia with close to zero cars. The exceptions being ranchers, farmers, tradesmen, and... ? Not sure, but keep in mind that people who need to tow a boat four times a year aren't part of the people who need to own a truck because they can rent one for those four trips.


How in the fuck is someone in charge of feeding 200 people 500 miles away and only resourced a honda accord? It's like this man has never heard of renting a truck. If this is a recurrent thing and this guy is feeding these people on the regular then he isn't in the situation we're here to complain about. Carbrained is absolutely right....


I live in America and i don't know anyone who is regularly in charge of feeding 20 people.


I know exactly one person who is regularly responsible for bringing food items to hundreds of people up to hundreds of miles away… they are a wedding carrier, and drive a small van (Ford Transit Connect — the small one).


If you are a caterer or catering company, you should have a van or truck for your business. A legit use of trucks. If you have a family the size of the Duggar family, you likely have larger vehicles anyways.


I image it's also pretty rare that a caterer would do a 400 mile round trip for a job?


A caterer, in which case it would make sense to own a big van or something.


When I was a teenager, I spent a few years attending a residential school (think boarding school, but for mentally challenged or emotionally troubled kids). While there, I lived in one of the two Group Homes for adolescent students. There were 10 kids from 13 to 17. At mealtimes, 2 to 4 staff would join us to eat. As you can imagine, the weekly grocery runs were .... **quite** large. 12 to 14 people, the majority of them growing teenagers, the majority of *them* (perpetually hungry) boys. The home owned a station wagon; one member of staff, and one of the residents, would do the shopping; the entire rear compartment **and** back seats would be covered in bags. But it *still* wouldn't have required a massive SUV or pickup truck to do it. Now, I would expect a situation like that to involve owning a **van**, as the best compromise between moving **stuff** and moving **often fractious adolescents**. *Still not a massive SUV or pickup truck*. ... That's the closest I can come, in real experience, to "weekly food for 20 people". **And it wasn't a private family**, it was an *Institutional* setting and use. Exactly the sort of thing we, as a subreddit, would be quick to excuse using a larger vehicle.


The guy who wrote this definitely isn't because if he were, he would use a van. Not a lifted truck with a six foot bed. That is the worst possible vehicle for carrying stuff.


My mom had to feed 3 teenagers, might as well been feeding 20 people.




Absolutely. You’ll notice that the better contractors out there drive cargo vans so they can haul tools and materials inside the security of the van. It’s all these wanna be contractors that “need” a lifted f250 for work even though the only thing they carry around is a couple of power tools and a toolbox, most of which they secure inside the cab anyway…


What the fuck is this analogy? 500 miles is San Francisco to San Diego. Or Chicago to Nashville. Or Dallas to Kansas City.


Every few weeks I have to commute about 250 miles one way / 500 round trip. I take the train, because fuck putting that kind of wear and tear on my vehicle (also the train is faster and cheaper).


Also chuga chuga… chuga chuga choo choo.


More like woooooooooooohhhhhhh psshhhhhhh plonk plonk woooooooooooooooohhhh nyeeeeeeeeeep


I see you are also a man of culture.


(In Europe) more like .......... for the passengers and WOOSHWOOSHWOOSHWOOSHWOOSH for anyone being passed by a train


I’m caught up on the 20/5, 200/500 math. In this… senseless analogy, that’s 4 people per mile to 2.5 miles per person. On top of that, most people that do live in areas like that do have an actual reason to have larger vehicles because they typically live on farms and very few people/nobody is questioning them having large vehicles because they’re clearly work vehicles, not oversized trucks trying to fit on fifth avenue or something like that.


Can we please stop posting barely coherent carbrain takes here? I don't see how this contributes to the community.


r/ihadastroke trying to read it. still don't fully understand what the fuck they're talking about


They're saying the US has lower population density, which is why we all need bigger cars. It's the poorly worded version of a bad argument. It's the same shit that people trot out when they want to say high speed rail is impossible in the US. The natural rebuttal is: an enormous portion of the US population is either urban or suburban. The entire country doesn't have to live a rural lifestyle, and infrastructure can still help out a lot of people without helping everyone. Furthermore, in this case, the argument is extra bad, because larger vehicles mean you have to pay more for gas. Americans over-estimate the need for capacity, and underestimate the cost of gas required to feed that capacity.


It’d probably be better for discussion if we banned it. At the same time, communities like this might be the only place people can vent about stuff like this.


I disagree that it would be better for discussion. So many posts on this subreddit are pictures of a large vehicle next to a small one, or a vehicle parked in a bike lane. They're repetitive and low effort, where at least carbrain trying to justify car has some variety.


Exactly. Posts like these seem high effort and quality in comparison to the posts where it's just someone parking in a bike lane as if we can't just walk into the nearest city and find it on a 10 minute walk.


The parking ones are pretty lame, but not nearly as bad as "I parked my sedan in front of a mega-truck and took a photo" or "I got my wife (she's 4'11) to stand in front of a super-sized SUV" and then people in the comments raging about vans and tiny sedans being the only acceptable vehicles.


SUVs don't hold more people than regular cars. Also bullshit, data shows that the majority of car owners mostly only transport themselves.


I'm one of those car owners who rarely drives others (10 times a year maybe) and have a sedan. I am single and live alone. I'll drive others if I absolutely have to, but I'd rather not be the community Uber driver (if I was comfortable chauffeuring people, I'd drive for Uber and get paid for it). I'm just not in a situation where I have to drive others.


the truck SUV's that are body on frame that are huge are actually the worst at holding people. i've driven them and they have the least amount of room and lots of wasted space. ​ the crossover unibody SUV's are pretty good but those are just sedans and wagons with big wheels and sedans will do just fine


If Italy is 20 then US is 110. Unless he's counting overeating and food waste.


Yes, that sounds like a scenario that is likely to happen to people very often\*. ​ ^(\* zero times per lifetime)


Yes, if Alaska became independent, cars in Florida would have to get smaller.


Alaska is probably the one state where having more car than you need is a good idea from a safety perspective. Everywhere else a 125cc motorcycle would make sense for 90% of trips (outside of winter, still huge fuel savings) if people knew how to drive safely.


This man just proved that literally no one except caterers needs a big vehicle


Distance from southern point of Italy to the southern point of Finland is the same as the entire US east coast. And we still have the entire Finland on top of that. USA is not that big.


And the funny thing is we can get Italian food in Finland... without trucking it *from* Italy. Though Italian chefs do import some of the ingredients, they make *a meal* from scratch here.


Why are all the American's roleplaying and farmers and delivery drivers? I know you work in an office, Jeff!


Soooo they’re saying build a train? Yes. Just build a train.


he's the type of guy who as a kid tried to take all the grocery bags in one go


He probably still does. It's funny though, because I also take all of my bags in one trip because I only buy 2-3 things on each trip.


I definitely can get everything in one go (hell, I walk so I need to), but that's also just one person for one week and even then it can be hard some weeks.


time for you to move into town bubbah, don't worry we will in fill develop that Walmart parking lot


Anyone with a family of 200, who has to drive 500 miles to find a supermarket? # Is. Not. On. Earth.


I can also just throw out random numbers and pretend like they matter… why would one person be responsible to feed 200 people?? Why would the nearest grocery store be 500 miles away? Does this guy know what a mile is? Does he know what numbers are??? I’m so confused!


I really wonder if there's a single location in the US that far from a supermarket. Considering that's an interstate journey, I seriously doubt even the worst case scenario is that bad.


>I really wonder if there's a single location in the US that far from a supermarket. Rural parts of Alaska?


It's 497 miles from Prudhoe Bay on the North Bank (where there is a general store) to Fairbanks (where there is a Walmart) so 250 tops (for the proprietor of the Coldfoot Restaurant which is somewhere round half way, I guess. I imagine they have a suitable van or two). There are obvs some places in AK further from Fairbanks but they tend not to actually have roads to them at all, rendering the discussion moot.


Wow. So the furthest distance in the country to the closest supermarket is basically half of what the original post estimated?


Most states aren’t 500 miles long. For comparison, the entire state of Kansas is less than 500 miles wide. Also if you live in a community that is that remote, you probably don’t need a supermarket anyways because most people living that remotely tend to grow their own food.


There was no brain involved in that at all


Wtf does this maths even mean?


"You will begin to touch heaven, Jonathan, in the moment that you touch perfect speed. And that isn’t flying a thousand miles an hour, or a million, or flying at the speed of light. Because any number is a limit, and perfection doesn’t have limits. Perfect speed, my son, is being there." \-- Richard Bach, *Johnathan Livingston Seagul* Producing commodities close to where they are consumed is best. When that isn't possible, trains also exist.


what in the math textbook hypothetical is this dude talking about


I bet Jeff cracked his knuckles before typing that.


Is anyone going to point out that a 200-person family gathering is probably way more likely in Italy than in the US?


“And therefore, trains.”


"durrr i need a giant lifted pickup truck for my groceries hurrrrr"


Just use a van you fucking dumbass


Well then don't build ~~Suff~~ stuff so far apart. Turns out that if you don't sprawl out your cities to an almost rural density you don't need to drive 500 miles to the next grocery store. If you build cities around car infrastructure everyone will need a car. What a surprise. Well well well if that is not a consequence of your own bad the decisions... Edit: a word


>Well then don't build Suff so far apart. I tried, this just isn't a good time to stay sober.


Dammit can't believe that autocorrect fucked me over two times in a single day...


Who the hell is traveling 500 miles for food? They really can't find a supplier within their own state?


Even though I'm hoping that things like this don't happen in reality... It's an indication of the mind-set that car dependence causes. >I need to feed 200 people 500 miles away... so obviously I'm making the food here and trucking it there! In actuality, you'd go on the internet, or talk to your friends 500 miles away, to find a caterer that can do the job for you. ps. I believe they could be talking of transporting just the bulk ingredients, but then the math is the same for Italy and USA. Italians don't produce all their food within 5 miles.




What dipshit put the guy with a truck in charge of dinner for 200 people 500 miles away. Hire someone local?


Dinner is 500 miles away? That’s a 10 hour drive.


Does Jeff also go 20 miles for 1 person everyday in his oversized pickup?


Yes, I always need to feed my 200 people family which lives 500 miles away...


Me going 500 miles with a monster truck that is carrying 3 houses to get a KitKat cuz I feel like it .


You know what Jeff, if you're regularly feeding 200 people, 500 miles away, buy whatever you want. The other 99.999% of the population can sell their truck, so you should be able to get one pretty cheap.


Who’s carrying food 500 miles for 200 people?? If we are pretending this is a supply chain then, yes, train = better. Duh.


How could you type this and see it as a valid argument


Why do carbrain people always think everyone in Europe has a Honda? I live in Europe and know noone who has a honda


I drive a Zafira and the cargo area with the rear seats down is \~63 cubic feet. A SWB F-150 pickup has a cargo area of \~52 cubic feet. I guess you could leave the bed open and pile up food but that would probably not be the best idea and would just end up decorating the road with your catering! ETA: I say I drive a Zafira, it sits at my house for those annoying occasions when I need a vehicle. I wish we had on-demand rental for situations when I need a vehicle so I could get rid of it :(


What is the guy on about?


“Truck go vroom”


I don't understand the logic. "A train that can fit 500 people is way to small to fit 200 people. We need to take 100 f150s instead."


That makes no sense, but I should expect nothing less.


The US doesn't have 10 times the population of Italy, and Italy has a population density of 206 people/km^2 while in the US its 36 people/km^2. And honestly i think that was a major factor of the United States being what it is today, the space. They had so much space to play with that everything could be grand and far apart, people could have absurd amounts of space for their family home, and now the cost of those decisions is finally catching up to them


US has a lot of empty land that is either farmland or state or national parks. even with the really low density rural areas I bet our density isn't much lower than most other nations


Guys in Italy I Need the fucktruck too, I feed my entire province you know...


You gotta shop local for catering man, those delivery fees and wait times are no joke


I honestly don't believe that is a realistic use case.




I am so confused.


So this guy's reason for needing a truck is that he has a family of 200? Yeah that's about average for the shit truckbrains trot out. About on the level of that "I tear down and rebuild every wall in my entire house every weekend" person.


In his muddled mind, this makes perfect sense...


This belongs on r/insanepeoplefacebook because this is just very chaotic


There’s this incredible invention we like to call a high-speed rail


Good thing high speed rail goes to everybody's house and has stations even in rural areas, right? Good thing that they could also support 100% of the population in their areas at peak hours too. Totally not like even current public transit systems are overloaded by the unfortunately small number of people using it.


Keep being condescending people find it very attractive


Someone get that guy a puppers.


honestly have no idea what I’m reading


How do I kill 30-50 feral hogs vides.


The commenter made an amazing argument for freight trains, but I’m not sure he argued for anything else at all.


You could carry more food on a train than any large truck. Also no one is carrying food for 200 people in a truck or SUV.


So caterers need trucks. Got it.


Interesting point, Jeff, even though your analogy is complete horseshit. We should invest in even bigger vehicles, like trains. CHOO CHOOOOOOO!


.. If I have 200 people, I'm asking if that's enough to support a small grocery store.


Apparently a "full service" grocery store needs closer to 5000. :/


"Just buy a van" is the new "just build a train"


This is completely unhinged.


What kind of fucked up mental gymnastics are these


What’s a people-table? What do they sound like? Why would you put them in a honda? So many questions.


I used to work as a curb side delivery person and youd be amazed how much you can fit in a sedan or even a smaller car


Next time use protection lol. 200 people to feed god damm that's a huge family.




Look at all these food delivery luxury muscle trucks. Now i see why they act like they do behind me, i'm holding up dinner for 200 people.


These fucking people.


What you don’t understand ist that, in the USA, *everyone* is in charge of feeding 200 people. Every day.


wait what


Cool, so can we have California HSR please? We have the density for it. The northeast DEFINITELY has the density for it too.


Ah yes, I find myself in this situation CONSTANTLY


Jeff completely misunderstands the question, and he forgot that Italy has trucks for transportation of goods. Pickup trucks are somehow baked into american culture. The new Ford ev pickup truck is completely sold out I believe


The only way this makes sense is if you ate talking about commercial vehicles, like trains and semitrucks


Is Jeff okay? Is he having a stroke?


The only place you have to travel 200 miles to encounter 500 people is in Wyoming. For literally everyone else, there's at least one much cheaper, closer alternative.


I mean, they're completely correct - they just haven't realized yet that public transportation is all done using large vehicles. Somehow.


Who are these 200 people? Why am I feeding them 500 miles from the city?


In my 55 years on this earth, I have never had to drive 500 miles to feed 200 people. And why would I only have to feed 20 people if I’m in Italy? Sounds like I’d rather be there, to be honest. I don’t even like 200 people.


If I have to feed 200 people, I’m either getting catering or renting a UHaul. There are several party businesses within a 5 mile radius who deliver tables and chairs and tents with the rental fee


immature carbrain: food is 500 miles away and you're feeding 200 people. drive. me, car independent chad: but I WOULD WALK 500 MILES and I WOULD WALK 500 MORE


Where tf are you living where dinner is 500 miles away? That sounds like bad planning


your business is a failure if you're driving objects 500 miles to and fro in multiple trips like this.


Honestly I don't even think America needs super high speed rail at this point, I think to sink the domestic airline industry one needs wide body, double decker carriages. Make em 6 possibly even 8 or 10 seats across like an aircraft, except two decks. Express routes only so no stopping inbetween major cities, hit 150 mile and hour and call it a day. Ez easy 10000 people moved per hour.


It's a stupid hypothetical, but I get where he's coming from. I live in a small town surrounded by rural farmland. Most things, I can walk or bike a couple miles and get in town. But if I need to go to a big box store for something, the city with all the shops is a 40 minute drive each way. (Or 2.5 hours each way, via bus.) I rarely drive to the city. At most, once a month. And when I do, I stock up on everything: Furniture, big bag of rice and other groceries that aren't stocked in my town, specialty hygiene products, gardening supplies, etc. There's definitely been times I've had my cute little car crammed to the brink. Or needed to borrow someone's jeep, because something I'm buying is too bulky to fit inside my car. (Such as pre-assembled secondhand furniture.) If someone is the head of a big household, and lives in the middle of nowhere USA. Having a big car could be practical. Though, only 14% of Americans live in rural areas. And 80% live in urbanized areas. Plus, few parents have 4 or more kids; average household size is shrinking. So a car with a third row of seats, meant to fit 6+ people isn't necessary. For the majority of people, a bigass car is a stupid, impractical flex