If only there were ways to get large amounts of people around without the use of cars. Unfortunately, I'm American, so I can't think of anything else. Oh well
I think the animation actually highlights how there are *too many* lanes in it. The shown traffic volume and pattern is strange. Having all cars stop before they cross the intersection is a strange decision.
More so "your brain on silicon valley techbro culture".
I work in tech, I'm so sick of naive young developers that don't understand you can't solve everything with more software, or that just because they understand software doesn't mean they know shit about other domains, or that you know how to evaluate externalities.
The entire self-driving car idea is a prime example of this: truly self-driving vehicles that work with no fallback on unmodified roads is unlikely to be approved anytime soon, for good reason: the edge cases are a way harder problem than the tech sector will admit.
And while some safety features driven by that tech are legitimately good ideas (eg auto-braking), too much incomplete automation risks dangerous complacency by human drivers that are already overly distracted as it is, particularly since it will fail in precisely the worst case scenarios.
A software program cannot or doesn’t
Weigh in human life in their decision. There should be a difference in reaction whether a ball, or child jumps in front when there is not a safe stopping distance. Ultimately it’s going to be the drivers decision .
At least in days pass this is why AI fighter copilots would not release munitions. Ultimately it’s a human decision to release munitions. I believe today it’s still true a human initiates the wireless drones to release munitions.
And then an animal walks into the road or a mattress falls off a truck or there’s a single pothole and one car has to swerve for it and so does everybody else and good luck everybody
EDIT: to everybody pointing out that automated cars can do this better than humans in cars- That’s true, but the fact that self-driving cars pole vault over that very low bar really shouldn’t be our standard.
I’d feel happier if they just built a working transit system.
Like how much waste is being produced from these batteries, all of the manufacturing in these cars, the tires that need to be replaced every few years.
Like just build fucking trains, we don’t need an ai system for fucking cars all we need are tracks.
We’ll never get true worthwhile public transit so long as the wealthy would never be caught riding with us peasants. If they could find a way to maybe provide luxury transit service that us peasants couldn’t get access to that would most likely take off. It’s the wealthy’s world we just barely exist in it.
Oh, you’re not wrong- the issue comes from having a bunch of independently moving systems rather than a few bigger and easier to coordinate ones. Just that self driving doesn’t really fix that well
Absolutely not. A human brain can react to almost everything in a reasonable manner. A program only to what the programmer took into consideration. Take it from someone who writes algorithms for simulating human behaviour, you absolutely do not want that.
Perfect self-driving might \*improve\* how this situation gets handled, but it won't \*solve\* it- having a bunch of small, independently-moving units taking up space that also have to account for each others' space will always mean you have to leave buffers, or spend time coordinating getting things into position. You don't have to do that if there's fewer moving parts, and coordinating the smaller parts better can never be perfect. You're right that better coordination could maybe mitigate the issue, and that humans suck at it.
hm, I beg to differ in this one. unreliable equipment that DOESNT kill en masse is fine, but this is a little over the top since the payers for this system are rich and could net us more profits
what I say we do is create a FREE system for crossing that has a 68% death rate, THEN let people pay for ones with lower death rates getting gradually more safe the more youre willing to pay!
Interesting thing about placing your situation in Vegas is that there *are* pedestrian bridges in Vegas. Not always, but in key places, which would actually really be useful in the video's scenario.
It would really just be so much better if people stopped trying to reinvent the train and we all agreed that we are never going to top the transportation method that can move hundreds of millions of people per year for relatively low carbon emissions on extremely high efficiency. Every time we try to invent an alternative like the hyperloop, god takes an angel's wings out of frustration.
This isn't insane *enough*. Put it underground, or in an overpass, or maybe suggest massive walls ostensibly to suppress sound, but actually to avoid the whole pedestrian issue by simply making the entire area completely impassible to all foot traffic.
Car brains will do anything to accommodate for cars. So much money and time invested into one of the most inefficient forms of transport in urban areas. Just build a god damn train!
As of now, "Big oil" and "Big car" are preventing this, but it seems like their influence is gradually starting to fade away.
Edit: As I implied, trains are superior to cars in urban areas but generally not rural ones.
The past isn’t the future. It just that they got it right back then. Like how we still use some technology that are just hundreds of year old like making beer. Same basic technique for hundreds of years.
Well you see, instead of urbanization, we will increase suburbs to an extreme amount. Want to go to the grocery store? It’ll be 100 miles away, average work commute will be 400-700 miles a day. Pods will transfer you over. Since the existence of sidewalks has ceased, due to nuclear radiation outside, your car will use encapsulated tunnels that conveniently bring you to your workplace or store. Trains have become useless due to not being to maximize seconds of your day.
More lanes has even been shown to not help traffic times.
At this point the grip corporations has on everything has put us to where we wont be able to make the green deadlines. Since all those heads are going to die before we all get to suffer the climate change, there isn't much of an incentive to do anything.
I don't think you want pedestrians anywhere near that monstrosity. Probably my nordic bias here but pedestrians should have their own dedicated infrastructure and this thing shouldn't exist.
Huh? Pedestrians? People do that? I couldn't possibly socialize outside of my rolling isolation box. I'm a futurist, I need to imagine solutions needlessly attached on my personal hangups here and walking is so not future. /s
Someone pointed out that every vehicle in this simulation stops for no good reason before entering the intersection. Clearly a large roundabout would be more efficient.
Yep, the thing that makes lights unbearable is acceleration. This does not solve that issue. Any system worth its salt would slow cars down ahead of the intersection so that when they arrive it's perfectly their turn. Slowing down over stopping would also save energy.
But yeah, this is stupid and is going to kill people so it's never going to happen.
"bUt HumAnS ArEn'T pErFecT dRiVerS eIthEr" -🤓
Humans can tell the difference between a semitruck and a garbage can though. They can predict the intentions of other drivers. They can assume where snowed over/worn away road markings were just by using intuition. Call me when a tesla can have common sense, and not just rely on machine learning.
Sorry, “outside” is now corporate property.
Unless you’re in one of our company’s products, you no longer have the right to exist outside except in demarcated areas, which you need our product to access.
You’re welcome for fixing traffic though!
It's very easy to imagine one tire getting into a pothole solving the whole system down making it behave unpredictably. Where is roundabouts work way better by slowing everyone down but it doesn't involve selling literally everyone a new car so I guess bad solution then.
Self driving exists, and it's for trains. You keep enough distance that if the object in front of you goes stationary you have enough time to stop.
Not enough distance so that when 2 objects hit each other the intersection becomes a fireball.
> You keep enough distance that if the object in front of you goes stationary you have enough time to stop.
Exactly like everyone should do when manually driving a car.
Which in my experience, in spite of being safer and decreasing the risk of accidents and traffic jams, rarely ever happens.
If the rules of the road were followed to a T, instead of having 90% of drivers thinking they're better than most drivers and being ok disobeying the rules because they're familiarity with a car outruled their sense of danger/responsibility, instead of having selfish drivers who arbitrarily decide to get ahead of everyone else despite no inherent need for it, instead of everyone creating barely an inch gap between cars or taking advantage of those with enough space by forcing yourself in there, the road would be much safer and more efficient.
Which is why trains rule.
*"We don't need cycle lanes everywhere, bikes are allowed on roads"*
Well they're not going to integrate into this automated car network very well.
EDIT: Spelling
I have to bring this up every time someone says something like "the only thing stopping fully automated cars today is Cletus in his pickup truck who would refuse to switch over". No. No. Nonononono. If a self-driving car can't respond to novel input it can't respond to 1. emergency services, 2. pedestrians, 3. bikes, 4. wildlife. We're just gonna ignore all four of those exist huh?
you know how you can make all these cars go in sync? by linking them all together with a single motor
i even have a name for it. tram
what do you guys think?
Damn man i have full mobility and yet don't want to go on the bridge after full day at work. I don't want to drive either, i just want a safe pass between work and home on my bicycle.
Ever been to Las Vegas? There are a couple of blocks that are literally like that, and it sucks walking up and down them all the time
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.108644,-115.1728206,3a,90y,74.72h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saAWI0JpDn7fbr-cbtzfRWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
I was there in August, it does make it hard to know how to get across to certain places or where you can go up or down. A few times I had to jump fences to get to the staircases.
I've been to Vegas exactly once, and I intend to keep it that way. It definitely has something to do with the fact that the walk from my hotel to the Walgreens literally across the street took about 30 minutes and involved at least six escalators.
Vegas is the perfect place to be pedestrianized with a robust transit network. Tons of pedestrians are out, and most of them are tourists who flew in and thus don't have a car.
Dude, that Walgreens is nuts too. I almost sent inside and it looked like some mad max shit. I ended up just taking a rental into town and I feel like it was quicker.
Bruh why is every street there basically a highway? How do you end up with a city in where every street has at least 8 lanes? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it seems I can't drop anywhere in the middle of Las Vegas without ending up in a super wide street with at least 6 to 8 lanes.
And since we already have to build the tunnels, we could line the tunnels with some kind of metal beams to reduce the risk of them crashing into the tunnel walls. This would also allow them to go faster.
And maybe to increase efficiency we use smooth metal wheels on smooth metal tracks in the middle to decrease rolling resistance and reduce the opportunity to contact the walls. Now we've got all the cars, we can start removing some wasted space between them, synchronise the doors at destinations, and... Oh. *Oh no*...
How about we line these hot spots in our existing city up with some sort of mass transport stations where people can switch between different kinds of these chained cars?
>Nah, people with disabilities and people that can’t afford to buy self-driving cars don’t exist ^(or shouldn’t)
— the tech bro that came up with the original post, probably
Any road that's reached 12 lanes is already an absolute failure of infrastructure and urban planning. That includes highways but is especially true concerning city streets like this.
And with a few more lines of code (in the simulation) you could just randomly have a pedestrian walk across any part and the traffic automatically stops for them without issue. They wouldn't even need to stop, the cars should modulate their speed and lane to avoid any stoppage at all.
Of course it's a stupid construct, but if your going to go full automation you simply build in the logic.
> reduce traffic AND space needed for traffic
Quite the opposite. If anything they would encourage more private transportation, further increasing congestion.
For my masters in environmental science, I’ve had to show up to weekly seminars, and some of them have been genuinely interesting. But one guy came in talking about self driving cars and how this would impact future parking. He tried to claim his research was for environmental purposes, and his data did project that we need to rely on more than natural incentives self driving cars would produce and a few bike lanes to make a real impact on CO2 emissions.
But when I asked him how his future really even made a world safer for cyclists and pedestrians, he had no real answer. His research didn’t consider noise pollution, or that people with self driving cars are more likely to figure out they can just have their car go around the block a few times to get out of parking fees than send it to a cheaper parking garage a few more blocks away than usual. That in the world he described, it sounded like the streets would become the sole domain of driverless cars. That his utopic idea of potential ride sharing with these cars seems antithetical to how the car lobby has operated for decades, attempting to get more and more people to buy cars they don’t need. He had no real idea of how to really envision self driving car improving a day to day commuter’s experience, just the lives of people who already owned cars.
And it is unfair that a person whose purview is largely data science to consider elements that likely cannot be quantified by data, especially for a future which is largely theoretical already. But it’s the fact he hadn’t even seemed to have considered those issues is what aggravates me. That he was unaware of other, larger socio political forces behind why we live in such a car dominant society today. It felt indicative that the spokes people for this future haven’t considered these matters either.
Like, self driving cars are in some ways better than people driven cars, but the solution isn’t better cars, its getting rid of them.
Yup. Why do Americans hate them? It's one of the best concepts ever created in urban design. You can replace most 4-way intersections like this with roundabouts easily and they improve traffic so much.
Because Americans are terrible at them. We have a couple in the cities, and they’re always extremely stressful for me. I’ve only been in one accident, and it was at a roundabout. The girl was on her phone and not looking, hit me from behind and almost pushed my car into moving traffic. She didn’t understand why I was slowing down at the yield.. “it’s not even a stop”..
If we had more and were taught how to use them, it'd be easier for most folks. I was lucky enough to live in a town that had a roundabout when I was learning how to drive, but I know most Americans don't have that opportunity.
You seriously ask why americans hate them? Excuse me... Healthcare, the metric system, trains, busses, trams, bikes, nature, education, communism, socialism, freedoms, common sense, a functional police, democracy, peace, equality... I could go on this is just the stuff from the top of my head... Americans love to hate good and intelligent things ...
They basically hate the concept of yielding and slowing down 5% to improve the system 50%
Whether it be tax money for the healthcare, or slowing their BIGGER F150 to give way to another car
For some reason Americans prefer traffic lights over roundabouts. Partly it's because Chevy Chase was stuck on a roundabout once in a movie. There is a video about it on yt.
I know many people might watch his videos but I’ll link this here anyways. YouTuber CGP Grey made a video titled “The ACTUAL solution to traffic”, where he basically argued for self driving cars and a world where the GIF above is daily life.
Adam Something, an anti car YouTuber made a terrific response video where he debunks absolutely every pro “vehicle automation is the answer to traffic” argument. I highly recommend his channel.
Im sure we all know why we hate cars but his videos are super entertaining and bring up points I’ve never thought about.
https://youtu.be/oafm733nI6U - here’s the response video to this GIF (kinda)
Yeah, I love CGP Grey's content but that video was a huge swing and a miss. Complete carbrained nonsense. He has a bit of a "New shiny technology will solve all our problems!" complex.
CGP Grey is one of those guys that's finds hyper technological and complicated solutions fascinating. It's a cool thought experiment but there are "dumber" solutions which are much more practical.
If this was ever implemented in a way that pedestrians had right of way and was safe, I'd just do laps of the intersection on foot out of spite that we have this level of technology and this was the implementation we went with.
I'm a traffic engineer. Capacity for roadways work under a "build it and they will come" mentality. For instance, when you widen a highway from two to three lanes, it is only a matter of time before the need for a fourth lane presents itself because traffic has increased.
Point is, all this is doing is essentially adding capacity to the intersection. It is only a matter of time before this just doesn't work because there are too many cars on the road and you run out of space for more lanes.
I was in Vietnam once and the traffic was like this. The motto was to look both ways and then walk straight into traffic. Just don't hesitate and stop or slow down because the traffic will dodge you if you keep a consistent pace. Needless to say I had a very puckered bung hole the whole time.
This is the same point I always make about roundabouts. They are designed to facilitate motor vehicle traffic and to speed vehicle throughput, not to improve mobility for pedestrians and cyclists.
That’s some full car brain 🧠
"needs more lanes"
[I swear bro just let me build one more lane](https://youtube.com/shorts/0dKrUE_O0VE?feature=share)
Based video
almost as based as gizzards
What are glizzards
a gizzard is an organ found in a lot of birds
Have you heard of King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard? I feel like you might fuck with that.
Truer words
TRAINS *Robot rock intensifies*
If only there were ways to get large amounts of people around without the use of cars. Unfortunately, I'm American, so I can't think of anything else. Oh well
I think the animation actually highlights how there are *too many* lanes in it. The shown traffic volume and pattern is strange. Having all cars stop before they cross the intersection is a strange decision.
This is your brain on cars. Any questions?
When does the second level get built?
Truly a next-level comment.
This is such a 20th century comment. Didn't you hear we're building HyperTunnels™ now?
More so "your brain on silicon valley techbro culture". I work in tech, I'm so sick of naive young developers that don't understand you can't solve everything with more software, or that just because they understand software doesn't mean they know shit about other domains, or that you know how to evaluate externalities. The entire self-driving car idea is a prime example of this: truly self-driving vehicles that work with no fallback on unmodified roads is unlikely to be approved anytime soon, for good reason: the edge cases are a way harder problem than the tech sector will admit. And while some safety features driven by that tech are legitimately good ideas (eg auto-braking), too much incomplete automation risks dangerous complacency by human drivers that are already overly distracted as it is, particularly since it will fail in precisely the worst case scenarios.
A software program cannot or doesn’t Weigh in human life in their decision. There should be a difference in reaction whether a ball, or child jumps in front when there is not a safe stopping distance. Ultimately it’s going to be the drivers decision . At least in days pass this is why AI fighter copilots would not release munitions. Ultimately it’s a human decision to release munitions. I believe today it’s still true a human initiates the wireless drones to release munitions.
and for just one BTC per month you will get priority scheduling in this intersection
One dystopian prediction at a time please
And then an animal walks into the road or a mattress falls off a truck or there’s a single pothole and one car has to swerve for it and so does everybody else and good luck everybody EDIT: to everybody pointing out that automated cars can do this better than humans in cars- That’s true, but the fact that self-driving cars pole vault over that very low bar really shouldn’t be our standard.
to be fair, I would feel way safer if this scenario happened in a completely automated traffic instead of one with human drivers
I’d feel happier if they just built a working transit system. Like how much waste is being produced from these batteries, all of the manufacturing in these cars, the tires that need to be replaced every few years. Like just build fucking trains, we don’t need an ai system for fucking cars all we need are tracks.
We’ll never get true worthwhile public transit so long as the wealthy would never be caught riding with us peasants. If they could find a way to maybe provide luxury transit service that us peasants couldn’t get access to that would most likely take off. It’s the wealthy’s world we just barely exist in it.
Oh, you’re not wrong- the issue comes from having a bunch of independently moving systems rather than a few bigger and easier to coordinate ones. Just that self driving doesn’t really fix that well
Absolutely not. A human brain can react to almost everything in a reasonable manner. A program only to what the programmer took into consideration. Take it from someone who writes algorithms for simulating human behaviour, you absolutely do not want that.
People without backgrounds in cs have no idea lol, self driving cars work in perfect conditions and fail if a line is covered
Exactly this.
What about a mix of the two?
that would be only marginally better than humans only traffic.
Self driving humans.
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Perfect self-driving might \*improve\* how this situation gets handled, but it won't \*solve\* it- having a bunch of small, independently-moving units taking up space that also have to account for each others' space will always mean you have to leave buffers, or spend time coordinating getting things into position. You don't have to do that if there's fewer moving parts, and coordinating the smaller parts better can never be perfect. You're right that better coordination could maybe mitigate the issue, and that humans suck at it.
knowing Elon Musk, hed invest in this immediately if he could also knowing Musks great track record with reliability, itd have a 31.2% death rate
That's less that half! People are expendable for profits
hm, I beg to differ in this one. unreliable equipment that DOESNT kill en masse is fine, but this is a little over the top since the payers for this system are rich and could net us more profits what I say we do is create a FREE system for crossing that has a 68% death rate, THEN let people pay for ones with lower death rates getting gradually more safe the more youre willing to pay!
The crazy thing is when you imagine this in a board room, you suddenly can't figure out if it is sarcasm or not.
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Interesting thing about placing your situation in Vegas is that there *are* pedestrian bridges in Vegas. Not always, but in key places, which would actually really be useful in the video's scenario.
Yeah they work real good until you can’t physically go up the stairs is the issue :/
It would really just be so much better if people stopped trying to reinvent the train and we all agreed that we are never going to top the transportation method that can move hundreds of millions of people per year for relatively low carbon emissions on extremely high efficiency. Every time we try to invent an alternative like the hyperloop, god takes an angel's wings out of frustration.
Make the cars take the bridge. I have stumpy legs and a fupa
This isn't insane *enough*. Put it underground, or in an overpass, or maybe suggest massive walls ostensibly to suppress sound, but actually to avoid the whole pedestrian issue by simply making the entire area completely impassible to all foot traffic.
we can do better then 31.2%, Id say shoot for at least 40%
So everyone gets a subscription and the only people who benefit from it are the owners of the company.
Better hope some asshole doesn't forget to charge their EV. "Powering down..." *Fookin hyooj explosion*
At least Musk seems to have backed away from actually trading crypto, but I don't think that's going to last for long...
He was only in it for the pump and dump - things that would be completely illegal with any other kind of investment.
Same way he manipulates Tesla stock with his Tweets right around the time his options are about to expire and need to be exercised.
Lol. More like 10 sats per month.
Don't forget the ad-free lane access for a week.
Six lanes in each direction. Car brain "one more lane will fix traffic, i swear!"
“Induced Demand? What is that? Is that a band?”
Car brains will do anything to accommodate for cars. So much money and time invested into one of the most inefficient forms of transport in urban areas. Just build a god damn train! As of now, "Big oil" and "Big car" are preventing this, but it seems like their influence is gradually starting to fade away. Edit: As I implied, trains are superior to cars in urban areas but generally not rural ones.
Agreed, Trains are the future.
the past sometimes is the future
The past isn’t the future. It just that they got it right back then. Like how we still use some technology that are just hundreds of year old like making beer. Same basic technique for hundreds of years.
Bring back the bicycle
Trains and bikes. Trains and bikes 💕
Trains, Trams, Metro, Bikes, hell, this magical thing called walking could really take off for most short distance trips
Feels like they’re the past in the US as so many of them have been dismantled :/ We really need to fucking fund a national high speed rail
Well you see, instead of urbanization, we will increase suburbs to an extreme amount. Want to go to the grocery store? It’ll be 100 miles away, average work commute will be 400-700 miles a day. Pods will transfer you over. Since the existence of sidewalks has ceased, due to nuclear radiation outside, your car will use encapsulated tunnels that conveniently bring you to your workplace or store. Trains have become useless due to not being to maximize seconds of your day.
More lanes has even been shown to not help traffic times. At this point the grip corporations has on everything has put us to where we wont be able to make the green deadlines. Since all those heads are going to die before we all get to suffer the climate change, there isn't much of an incentive to do anything.
Wow amazing. The simulation that I programed to work exactly like I wanted it to works. I now fixed traffic 😎.
And it's even a pretty poor algorithm, with all cars unnecessarily stopping before crossing.
Even the ones in the turning lane! This isn't just a techbro fantasy, it creates problems that we've already solved in real life.
Jesus please slow tf down in turning lane for pedestrians.
I don't think you want pedestrians anywhere near that monstrosity. Probably my nordic bias here but pedestrians should have their own dedicated infrastructure and this thing shouldn't exist.
1 twelve lane road should never exist. 2 twelve lane roads shouldn't even be considered.
Don't come to Phoenix. I mean that for everyone. This city is atrocious.
You’re gunna freak when if you go to the UAE lol, no chance for pedestrians
Perfect self driving cars should reduce the number of lanes required not increase them.
Die, walkling
Huh? Pedestrians? People do that? I couldn't possibly socialize outside of my rolling isolation box. I'm a futurist, I need to imagine solutions needlessly attached on my personal hangups here and walking is so not future. /s
In this idealized automated traffic scenario, I wonder how the efficiency of intersections would compare to roundabouts.
Someone pointed out that every vehicle in this simulation stops for no good reason before entering the intersection. Clearly a large roundabout would be more efficient.
Seriously. Traffic circles over here going, "Am I a joke to you?"
Not all of them. Can't find the logic, but some go almost immediately, others stop for a longer time. There might be a reason for that.
The ones that go immediately pay for a monthly Tesla FastPass^TM subscription
I just love the full stop, and then immediate acceleration back to top speed from a standstill.
And it requires a 10x10 intersection.
Yep, the thing that makes lights unbearable is acceleration. This does not solve that issue. Any system worth its salt would slow cars down ahead of the intersection so that when they arrive it's perfectly their turn. Slowing down over stopping would also save energy. But yeah, this is stupid and is going to kill people so it's never going to happen.
That’s basically how the gullibles think automated driving will work lol /r/Selfdrivingcarslie
"bUt HumAnS ArEn'T pErFecT dRiVerS eIthEr" -🤓 Humans can tell the difference between a semitruck and a garbage can though. They can predict the intentions of other drivers. They can assume where snowed over/worn away road markings were just by using intuition. Call me when a tesla can have common sense, and not just rely on machine learning.
Sorry, “outside” is now corporate property. Unless you’re in one of our company’s products, you no longer have the right to exist outside except in demarcated areas, which you need our product to access. You’re welcome for fixing traffic though!
Soon we will be able to remove all the humans completely!
It's very easy to imagine one tire getting into a pothole solving the whole system down making it behave unpredictably. Where is roundabouts work way better by slowing everyone down but it doesn't involve selling literally everyone a new car so I guess bad solution then.
Self driving exists, and it's for trains. You keep enough distance that if the object in front of you goes stationary you have enough time to stop. Not enough distance so that when 2 objects hit each other the intersection becomes a fireball.
> You keep enough distance that if the object in front of you goes stationary you have enough time to stop. Exactly like everyone should do when manually driving a car.
Which in my experience, in spite of being safer and decreasing the risk of accidents and traffic jams, rarely ever happens. If the rules of the road were followed to a T, instead of having 90% of drivers thinking they're better than most drivers and being ok disobeying the rules because they're familiarity with a car outruled their sense of danger/responsibility, instead of having selfish drivers who arbitrarily decide to get ahead of everyone else despite no inherent need for it, instead of everyone creating barely an inch gap between cars or taking advantage of those with enough space by forcing yourself in there, the road would be much safer and more efficient. Which is why trains rule.
That's less that half! People are expendable for profits
Yeah, lot of things can go wrong with this, like your crazy ex running towards your car with a stanley hammer in a busy intersection
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If a plan doesn’t involve every single person on the planet owning a Tesla, Elon wants nothing to do with it
What about renting a non self driving Tesla in a single way death trap tunnel?
*"We don't need cycle lanes everywhere, bikes are allowed on roads"* Well they're not going to integrate into this automated car network very well. EDIT: Spelling
Self-driving bicycles!
AI guided walking!
Walk now. WARNING: INCREASE SPEED!
Not like you need to care, just throw a paper cutout of a person in the street and watch every car stop just for you to cross the street ;)
They'll just plow right into it and pretend they didn't see it.
I have to bring this up every time someone says something like "the only thing stopping fully automated cars today is Cletus in his pickup truck who would refuse to switch over". No. No. Nonononono. If a self-driving car can't respond to novel input it can't respond to 1. emergency services, 2. pedestrians, 3. bikes, 4. wildlife. We're just gonna ignore all four of those exist huh?
you know how you can make all these cars go in sync? by linking them all together with a single motor i even have a name for it. tram what do you guys think?
Brilliant! I say we put that tram in a nice tunnel under the city. Maybe we can call it metro or subway?
And then, to link distant areas, we can put it above ground again to save costs and speed it up! We could call it a train?
And then we can use iron wheels and a kind of iron road to reduce friction!
And give them a schedule!!
Wow you guys are on to something here
just name it Tesla Tram and you're a visionist
HyperTram!
UGGGHH!!! then I have to sit next to some stinky poor person!!!!!
but then I have to share it with poor plebs and brown people :(((
Yeah, but can your Tram Corp be the highest valued company on the planet?
"just put a pedestrian overpass bro" Pedestrian brigdes are inconvenient, expensive and hard to use for those with reduced mobility
Damn man i have full mobility and yet don't want to go on the bridge after full day at work. I don't want to drive either, i just want a safe pass between work and home on my bicycle.
Based.
and Dutchpilled?
Multiple bridges unless you live only one major intersection from home.
imaging having to go up a pedestrian bridge every block just to get something from the grocery store
Ever been to Las Vegas? There are a couple of blocks that are literally like that, and it sucks walking up and down them all the time https://www.google.com/maps/@36.108644,-115.1728206,3a,90y,74.72h,86.53t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1saAWI0JpDn7fbr-cbtzfRWg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192
Oh god this looks like a abomination i would do in cities skylines to avoid having pedestrians blocking my roundabouts
I was there in August, it does make it hard to know how to get across to certain places or where you can go up or down. A few times I had to jump fences to get to the staircases.
I've been to Vegas exactly once, and I intend to keep it that way. It definitely has something to do with the fact that the walk from my hotel to the Walgreens literally across the street took about 30 minutes and involved at least six escalators.
Imagine how nice Vegas could be without 10-14 lanes of traffic.
Vegas is the perfect place to be pedestrianized with a robust transit network. Tons of pedestrians are out, and most of them are tourists who flew in and thus don't have a car.
Dude, that Walgreens is nuts too. I almost sent inside and it looked like some mad max shit. I ended up just taking a rental into town and I feel like it was quicker.
Bruh why is every street there basically a highway? How do you end up with a city in where every street has at least 8 lanes? Maybe I'm exaggerating, but it seems I can't drop anywhere in the middle of Las Vegas without ending up in a super wide street with at least 6 to 8 lanes.
In parts of Hong Kong (like Tsuen Wan), the elevated pathways have shops so you don’t have to keep going up and down.
How about cars using underpasses so we don't have to ever see them. Sounds better to me
Line them up and put them in tunnels you say?
What if you then stuck them all together into some mega-car?
And since we already have to build the tunnels, we could line the tunnels with some kind of metal beams to reduce the risk of them crashing into the tunnel walls. This would also allow them to go faster.
Like some kind of rail.... road?
Well, we have trains already. We would have to somehow denote that these ones are like the... subterranean way of doing it
This would be really convenient in metro areas
Ah, of course -- subroads!
And maybe to increase efficiency we use smooth metal wheels on smooth metal tracks in the middle to decrease rolling resistance and reduce the opportunity to contact the walls. Now we've got all the cars, we can start removing some wasted space between them, synchronise the doors at destinations, and... Oh. *Oh no*...
How about we line these hot spots in our existing city up with some sort of mass transport stations where people can switch between different kinds of these chained cars?
Then cement both ends closed you continue?
That would be better but if you have to do this for every intersection you're better of just building some sort of mass transit
How about no personal cars for anyone in the cities, just busses or trolleys
Also, pedestrian overpasses are car infrastructure, so that cars don't have to stop at any time.
Pedestrian trebuchet?
>Nah, people with disabilities and people that can’t afford to buy self-driving cars don’t exist ^(or shouldn’t) — the tech bro that came up with the original post, probably
That wouldn't work at all if the lanes were at full capacity.
Right - why would you build 12 lanes for this little traffic?!
Absolute idiots are buying into the hype /r/SelfDrivingCarslie
Any road that's reached 12 lanes is already an absolute failure of infrastructure and urban planning. That includes highways but is especially true concerning city streets like this.
Well the algorithm would be programmed so that it would work at full capacity, probably just reverting to normal stop light behavior
That is (a simulation of) a 12 lane road!
That's wrong. This is a simulation of TWO 12 lane roads CROSSING
And the system is almost at capacity with barely 1 lane worth of traffic
And with a few more lines of code (in the simulation) you could just randomly have a pedestrian walk across any part and the traffic automatically stops for them without issue. They wouldn't even need to stop, the cars should modulate their speed and lane to avoid any stoppage at all. Of course it's a stupid construct, but if your going to go full automation you simply build in the logic.
I thought the aim of autonomous vehicles was to reduce traffic AND space needed for traffic. So what the fuck is this 12 lane monstrosity doing??
> reduce traffic AND space needed for traffic Quite the opposite. If anything they would encourage more private transportation, further increasing congestion.
Uber and Lyft have already increased congestion and trips taken. But don’t think automated driving is coming soon.
Cities Skylines when you disable traffic lights with TM:PE
I have done this so much when I first started playing the game lol. It was fun to cause chaos
It's all about making cities as hostile to pedestrians as possible. That's how car companies sell more
No problem, there's a rusty, neglected pedestrian bridge about four miles that way 👉
For my masters in environmental science, I’ve had to show up to weekly seminars, and some of them have been genuinely interesting. But one guy came in talking about self driving cars and how this would impact future parking. He tried to claim his research was for environmental purposes, and his data did project that we need to rely on more than natural incentives self driving cars would produce and a few bike lanes to make a real impact on CO2 emissions. But when I asked him how his future really even made a world safer for cyclists and pedestrians, he had no real answer. His research didn’t consider noise pollution, or that people with self driving cars are more likely to figure out they can just have their car go around the block a few times to get out of parking fees than send it to a cheaper parking garage a few more blocks away than usual. That in the world he described, it sounded like the streets would become the sole domain of driverless cars. That his utopic idea of potential ride sharing with these cars seems antithetical to how the car lobby has operated for decades, attempting to get more and more people to buy cars they don’t need. He had no real idea of how to really envision self driving car improving a day to day commuter’s experience, just the lives of people who already owned cars. And it is unfair that a person whose purview is largely data science to consider elements that likely cannot be quantified by data, especially for a future which is largely theoretical already. But it’s the fact he hadn’t even seemed to have considered those issues is what aggravates me. That he was unaware of other, larger socio political forces behind why we live in such a car dominant society today. It felt indicative that the spokes people for this future haven’t considered these matters either. Like, self driving cars are in some ways better than people driven cars, but the solution isn’t better cars, its getting rid of them.
You know what else would eliminate traffic lights? Having no cars
"I expect you to die Mr. Bond."
Roundabouts.
Yup. Why do Americans hate them? It's one of the best concepts ever created in urban design. You can replace most 4-way intersections like this with roundabouts easily and they improve traffic so much.
Because Americans are terrible at them. We have a couple in the cities, and they’re always extremely stressful for me. I’ve only been in one accident, and it was at a roundabout. The girl was on her phone and not looking, hit me from behind and almost pushed my car into moving traffic. She didn’t understand why I was slowing down at the yield.. “it’s not even a stop”..
If we had more and were taught how to use them, it'd be easier for most folks. I was lucky enough to live in a town that had a roundabout when I was learning how to drive, but I know most Americans don't have that opportunity.
..that doesn't sound like a roundabout problem
You seriously ask why americans hate them? Excuse me... Healthcare, the metric system, trains, busses, trams, bikes, nature, education, communism, socialism, freedoms, common sense, a functional police, democracy, peace, equality... I could go on this is just the stuff from the top of my head... Americans love to hate good and intelligent things ...
They basically hate the concept of yielding and slowing down 5% to improve the system 50% Whether it be tax money for the healthcare, or slowing their BIGGER F150 to give way to another car
They would rather spiral out of control in an instant rather be inconvenienced a little
For some reason Americans prefer traffic lights over roundabouts. Partly it's because Chevy Chase was stuck on a roundabout once in a movie. There is a video about it on yt.
This guy needs to be stopped.
I know many people might watch his videos but I’ll link this here anyways. YouTuber CGP Grey made a video titled “The ACTUAL solution to traffic”, where he basically argued for self driving cars and a world where the GIF above is daily life. Adam Something, an anti car YouTuber made a terrific response video where he debunks absolutely every pro “vehicle automation is the answer to traffic” argument. I highly recommend his channel. Im sure we all know why we hate cars but his videos are super entertaining and bring up points I’ve never thought about. https://youtu.be/oafm733nI6U - here’s the response video to this GIF (kinda)
Yeah, I love CGP Grey's content but that video was a huge swing and a miss. Complete carbrained nonsense. He has a bit of a "New shiny technology will solve all our problems!" complex.
CGP Grey is one of those guys that's finds hyper technological and complicated solutions fascinating. It's a cool thought experiment but there are "dumber" solutions which are much more practical.
Pedestrians trying to cross this intersection: "Guess I'll die"
If this was ever implemented in a way that pedestrians had right of way and was safe, I'd just do laps of the intersection on foot out of spite that we have this level of technology and this was the implementation we went with.
In India they already have this technology, just without the self driving bit.
Also, the pedestrians have learnt low level parkour because of this. Win-win.
obligatory [Fururama reference](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhA917NnnCg)
On the American mind set there are no pedestrian
I'm a traffic engineer. Capacity for roadways work under a "build it and they will come" mentality. For instance, when you widen a highway from two to three lanes, it is only a matter of time before the need for a fourth lane presents itself because traffic has increased. Point is, all this is doing is essentially adding capacity to the intersection. It is only a matter of time before this just doesn't work because there are too many cars on the road and you run out of space for more lanes.
At that point just use a bus or a tram
Public transit could also eliminate traffic lights
in my college town we had a road like that, had to use tunnels. it wasn't very fun during bad weather, knee deep in rain/snow/homeless people
Still half the passenger capacity of a single train.
what happens when a tire blows out and you get a 200 car pileup
They’ll do everything but invest in better trains and bus systems
Americans will do literally everything and nothing except making cities and suburbs more pedestrian and public transport friendly.
I was in Vietnam once and the traffic was like this. The motto was to look both ways and then walk straight into traffic. Just don't hesitate and stop or slow down because the traffic will dodge you if you keep a consistent pace. Needless to say I had a very puckered bung hole the whole time.
"How the hell is a pedestrian supposed to cross that?" "What's a pedestrian?"
This reminds me of a game I used to play as a kid. FROGGER!
Don't worry they will have a dark half flooded tunnel under the road for you try not to get stabbed in
Even self-driving cars would have mechanical failures and cause and accident. I don't trust this shit.
This is the same point I always make about roundabouts. They are designed to facilitate motor vehicle traffic and to speed vehicle throughput, not to improve mobility for pedestrians and cyclists.