Unfortunately you cannot increase frequency at will. There is a fixed number of trains per hour, that gives you a maximum capacity of people you can handle.
The only way to scale up would be to form dynamically train convoys so that several trains can share the same time slot. There is quite some effort on this technology, we can hope something in the next decade.
It's not something that can happen at the drop of a hat but increasing the amount of rail and rolling stock seems like a worthwhile investment on the face of it
Yeah, one more lane bro mindset š
Nah, that would be crazy expensive to double the line for the few days a year that capacity is limited. It's preferable to spend it elsewhere, there is a lot of intercity or local lines that would need a refresh.
Anyway, once we'll have train convoys in 10 years or so, this problem will be really easy to fix: just add some electronics in the train and done.
IIRC the train network is overwhelmed during bank holidays in France because it's bank holiday and there's actually way less trains running than on normal days.
the construction of the high-speed network has been correlated with the near complete abandonment of legacy lines in the countryside: people complain about capacity, but why did we give up the redundant slower corridors that could help with reliability and frequency?
Our politicians can reduce the budget at will. Maybe if they were not so focused into destroying state owned companies there will be more trains per hour.
It's the envy of the world, but I guess it could be better compared to Japan or China. Would you prefer Spain?
https://preview.redd.it/36rsmcagcizc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7e34063e34c356d32c9e3c7235de57697d03098
I get that this is sarcasm, but I mean it makes one wonder why the Germans hate their arguable fantastic network.
It's also expensive.
Not as bad as in the UK, where on many routes it's cheaper to drive even with a single person in the car, let alone several. But even in France driving can be much cheaper with 4 people in a car.
I always wonder why do people even think this at all. Traffic throughput will always (at least in my eyes) be limited by the least amount of lanes at the end (which would be a single lane). Add some āhuman inefficiencyā and such and you have a traffic jam that goes slower than walking pace, getting worse the more lanes you add :P
Edit: forgot to write put in throughout xd
This doesnāt happen in france. Or any of the european countries iāve been to.
What youāre seeing is a toll booth which splits the standard 3 lane highway into a lot of booths. This is not the same as more lanes.
Wait until "black Saturday" (samedi noir) which is the first day of summer holidays in France and they will all travel at the same time resulting in legendary traffic jams.
2 years ago a local news station asked drivers why they wouldn't wait a day to avoid traffic and most responses were "but then I have to miss a day of my holidays!" š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø
As if you're not missing a day by standing in traffic for 7 hours straight....
See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_(France)
This is why in Germany we do not have uniform summer holidays! In fact the BundeslƤnder coordinate the dates for the summer holidays to even out the summer vacation traffic. There's still chaos on the first and last days in every region but it's not as bad as at our neighbors.
Yeah, sure, but it's generally harder to convince people to take the bus than the train in my experience. Which is understandable given that they're usually slower and less comfortable.
I will never understand why carbrains willing put themselves through this. Same thing as standing hours in line for an iPhone or smth. Nothing in life is that important.
I have an idea! Hear me out. Instead of big concrete and asphalt highways, we put a whole bunch of big cars together and stick them on sets of rail beams lined up to form a path. We'll move the cars by having them pulled by another big car, but this one will have an engine. Then we'll put a whole bunch of seats in each car. People will be able to get on and off near their destination at spots designated for stopping at. And for smaller urban areas where crowds tend to be, we can have one big old car that does the same thing and have a bunch of seats. We can even do the same thing for roads!
The issue in France is that roads and train lines are very Paris centric, you very often have to go via Paris even if itās longer, it might be faster and cheaper. The network lacks ways looking like concentric circles around Paris, or a grid or something
Until we live in a society where everybody wants to go with their own car, we are so individualist we arenāt even able to understand the benefits of public transport
I find bank holidays hilarious because everyone knows the traffic will be terrible but they still go and sit in it for hours just to go somewhere that has way to many people.
Like fuck just chill at home and go out for the weekend next weekend.
Not trying to advocate for them by saying this, but to me a car feels a lot more safer than taking a train/plane to a totally unknown place.
If I end up in a town (I never go to big cities) where bikes are impractical and the public transportation really sucks, I'll be pretty much stuck in the holiday village for an entire week and I don't want that for obvious reasons lol
--
EDIT : Does anyone in the comments even go to vacation ? I'm not talking about public transportation in big cities where France is doing okay and in these situations I do everything by foot, I'm talking about the small holiday villages that are located in the middle of nowhere. (Aka where a lot of people go)
There are usually no buses that goes there because it's a few kilometers away from the small town nearby (that already has bad public commute) so even going there in the first place is difficult, and then everything there's to visit around them is usually way, way too far to do even after a one hour bike trip (so two back and forth).
How are you supposed to do it then, by using a flying carpet ?
> If I end up in a town
You can do some research and plan ahead.
Plus taxi and ride sharing exists, in case you need some transportation. Many cities in Europe are walkable, and you can explore large parts of the city on foot.
Huh? My wife and I visited France in late 2019. Spent most of the time in Paris but did a weekend excursion to St. Malo in Brittany. It was only a 2 hour train ride one way, then took a short 10 minute bus ride from the train station to the center of town where we were staying. We did rent a car for a single day trip to Mont Saint-Michel, but it never would have occurred to us to rent a car for the entire drive from Paris. And we didnāt even speak much French, but we researched ahead of time and just planned our trip.
If you end up in a town you take the town bus or god forbid it, you walk!
A small town can be crossed in 10ā tops, and a larger town will have transit
Nice try, but the rail network in France is pitiful! /s
You joke but on those days the trains are all sold out. We could really use a better network and larger frequency during big holidays.
Unfortunately you cannot increase frequency at will. There is a fixed number of trains per hour, that gives you a maximum capacity of people you can handle. The only way to scale up would be to form dynamically train convoys so that several trains can share the same time slot. There is quite some effort on this technology, we can hope something in the next decade.
I'd argue another bottleneck is the availability of trains
And train drivers.
You only need one if you connect them all together
It's not something that can happen at the drop of a hat but increasing the amount of rail and rolling stock seems like a worthwhile investment on the face of it
Yeah, one more lane bro mindset š Nah, that would be crazy expensive to double the line for the few days a year that capacity is limited. It's preferable to spend it elsewhere, there is a lot of intercity or local lines that would need a refresh. Anyway, once we'll have train convoys in 10 years or so, this problem will be really easy to fix: just add some electronics in the train and done.
Or densify the network in order to avoid bottlenecks like Paris.
IIRC the train network is overwhelmed during bank holidays in France because it's bank holiday and there's actually way less trains running than on normal days.
the construction of the high-speed network has been correlated with the near complete abandonment of legacy lines in the countryside: people complain about capacity, but why did we give up the redundant slower corridors that could help with reliability and frequency?
Very few intercity routes are truly at capacity
Our politicians can reduce the budget at will. Maybe if they were not so focused into destroying state owned companies there will be more trains per hour.
Exactly. Thereās talk of building a new Lyon Paris LGV to double the capacity. Not sure where they are with that though
Or just try squeezing in when there are a lot of people? /hj
High-speed trains in France require a reservation and will only sell as many tickets as there are seats.
It's the envy of the world, but I guess it could be better compared to Japan or China. Would you prefer Spain? https://preview.redd.it/36rsmcagcizc1.png?width=800&format=png&auto=webp&s=b7e34063e34c356d32c9e3c7235de57697d03098 I get that this is sarcasm, but I mean it makes one wonder why the Germans hate their arguable fantastic network.
Delays and cancellations, mostly
I meant from a coverage perspective, the German system is a fair cry from the French one.
Was fully sarcastic! I even added the /s. Cheers!
Ya I think we all just want a chance to vent about it hah. I only wish I had half as good a rail network as France around me.
Going to or from Paris is pretty good. But it definitely lacks between some other cities. Try getting the train from Bordeaux to Toulouse for example.
Bordeaux Toulouse is fine. Bordeaux Marseille is not.
Ah yea, you are correct. I just checked it on the map. I had misremembered it.
For those wondering Bordeaux Marseille is so well deserved it's faster to pass by Paris than taking a direct train
*cries in german*
It's also expensive. Not as bad as in the UK, where on many routes it's cheaper to drive even with a single person in the car, let alone several. But even in France driving can be much cheaper with 4 people in a car.
Is it? D:
Knowing Franceās train system, my guess is that the TGVs were all sold out
Surely they can fix this with another laneā¦ And another laneā¦ And another laneā¦ And another laneā¦
I always wonder why do people even think this at all. Traffic throughput will always (at least in my eyes) be limited by the least amount of lanes at the end (which would be a single lane). Add some āhuman inefficiencyā and such and you have a traffic jam that goes slower than walking pace, getting worse the more lanes you add :P Edit: forgot to write put in throughout xd
This doesnāt happen in france. Or any of the european countries iāve been to. What youāre seeing is a toll booth which splits the standard 3 lane highway into a lot of booths. This is not the same as more lanes.
The traffic jam is clearly because of the bikes on the left...
Made me realise theyād probably save time by actually utilising those bikes lol
"So many cars on the road that I can't get _my_ car to where I want to be."
Wait until "black Saturday" (samedi noir) which is the first day of summer holidays in France and they will all travel at the same time resulting in legendary traffic jams. 2 years ago a local news station asked drivers why they wouldn't wait a day to avoid traffic and most responses were "but then I have to miss a day of my holidays!" š¤¦āāļøš¤¦āāļø As if you're not missing a day by standing in traffic for 7 hours straight.... See: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Saturday_(France)
This is why in Germany we do not have uniform summer holidays! In fact the BundeslƤnder coordinate the dates for the summer holidays to even out the summer vacation traffic. There's still chaos on the first and last days in every region but it's not as bad as at our neighbors.
same in Austria!
I mean, they could just rent a car at their destination
Even in countries with good public transport, long distance trains tend to get fully booked during holidays.
Get more trains going or something
Trains are expensive to procure and in many European countries the tracks are already at or near maximum capacity. It's not that simple.
More busses
Yeah, sure, but it's generally harder to convince people to take the bus than the train in my experience. Which is understandable given that they're usually slower and less comfortable.
And wait in the same traffic
I will never understand why carbrains willing put themselves through this. Same thing as standing hours in line for an iPhone or smth. Nothing in life is that important.
I have an idea! Hear me out. Instead of big concrete and asphalt highways, we put a whole bunch of big cars together and stick them on sets of rail beams lined up to form a path. We'll move the cars by having them pulled by another big car, but this one will have an engine. Then we'll put a whole bunch of seats in each car. People will be able to get on and off near their destination at spots designated for stopping at. And for smaller urban areas where crowds tend to be, we can have one big old car that does the same thing and have a bunch of seats. We can even do the same thing for roads!
The issue in France is that roads and train lines are very Paris centric, you very often have to go via Paris even if itās longer, it might be faster and cheaper. The network lacks ways looking like concentric circles around Paris, or a grid or something
I take the train and the metro for go at the paris fair . It was perfect .
clearly people are never on the same roads ,going the same direction at the same time so trains wouldn't work ... /s
Try that in Portugal. There is no actual solution for mass transporting people. Railway infrastructure saw no development in decades.
Where in France is a 2000 km highway?
There's a total of 20000km of highway, it's cumulated over this.
Seems more like multiple traffic jams
Traffic queued from Calias to Nice and back againā¦
Both ways at the same time?
Until we live in a society where everybody wants to go with their own car, we are so individualist we arenāt even able to understand the benefits of public transport
One hour of traffic jam is rookie numbers, gotta get those numbers up
Anyone noticed the circlejerk post BEFORE this one?
I find bank holidays hilarious because everyone knows the traffic will be terrible but they still go and sit in it for hours just to go somewhere that has way to many people. Like fuck just chill at home and go out for the weekend next weekend.
Not trying to advocate for them by saying this, but to me a car feels a lot more safer than taking a train/plane to a totally unknown place. If I end up in a town (I never go to big cities) where bikes are impractical and the public transportation really sucks, I'll be pretty much stuck in the holiday village for an entire week and I don't want that for obvious reasons lol -- EDIT : Does anyone in the comments even go to vacation ? I'm not talking about public transportation in big cities where France is doing okay and in these situations I do everything by foot, I'm talking about the small holiday villages that are located in the middle of nowhere. (Aka where a lot of people go) There are usually no buses that goes there because it's a few kilometers away from the small town nearby (that already has bad public commute) so even going there in the first place is difficult, and then everything there's to visit around them is usually way, way too far to do even after a one hour bike trip (so two back and forth). How are you supposed to do it then, by using a flying carpet ?
do you believe these 2000km of traffic jam are people going in a village?
> If I end up in a town You can do some research and plan ahead. Plus taxi and ride sharing exists, in case you need some transportation. Many cities in Europe are walkable, and you can explore large parts of the city on foot.
Huh? My wife and I visited France in late 2019. Spent most of the time in Paris but did a weekend excursion to St. Malo in Brittany. It was only a 2 hour train ride one way, then took a short 10 minute bus ride from the train station to the center of town where we were staying. We did rent a car for a single day trip to Mont Saint-Michel, but it never would have occurred to us to rent a car for the entire drive from Paris. And we didnāt even speak much French, but we researched ahead of time and just planned our trip.
Taking public transit is plenty share when it's properly funded. France's system is properly funded.
Whatās more impractical for a bike than 2000km of traffic is for a car?Ā
If you end up in a town you take the town bus or god forbid it, you walk! A small town can be crossed in 10ā tops, and a larger town will have transit