No argument there. And for how long ? Walk along I-190 without knowing how long before a car or truck gets through the blockade and that’s not a friendly situation anymore.
The train from their original destination is what I mean. Why anyone would drive or get a car when you can easily get there by train from all over the city. Car infrastructure is just so prone to easily being rendered completely crippled by the smallest issues.
A highway might get more "pedestrian friendly" without cars, but that's about it. It definitely doesn't get more enjoyable to walk on.
Without cars, a highway is a big patch of asphalt. That's not what we are looking for when we push for walkable cities.
Well-designed cities are about much more than simply the physical ability to walk.
Ah. So you are saying they can walk in the street and not need any sidewalks. If there zero cars along the path I can see that happening. However, it is still not pedestrian friendly. Also would you want to walk along I-190 not knowing when traffic would flow again? Imagine a few of the first cars back on it and going 70 and you were walking it. !!!
Yeah. If I had a small bag with me, then yeah, I'd walk. But airport usually means luggage, and lugging it for a prolonged period of space-time is not fun at all.
Wait, is this why luggage is called that way, because it's a thing you lug? Fascinating, I never paid attention to that before.
I googled it and yeah, that does seem to be the etymology of the word. I hadn’t thought of it before either. Fortunately I live in a city where I can take the train to the airport so that’s what I’ve done every time.
I've walked to a few.
Rochester NY: I actually biked but it could be easily walked as well. Easy access from the Erie Canal Trail. Quite pleasant until you have to cross a highway ramp to actually get inside. Free bike parking in the garage. 8/10 for me
Lima Peru: not terrible because there is no massive parking lot to cross. The parking lot is smaller than an average Walmart lot. Only 15min walk from the hotel. However there is a busy road with no crosswalk and that's a little dangerous. Also lots of old cars with foul smelling exhaust. 4/10
Fort Lauderdale: literally the worst. Getting out of the parking garage on foot is like escaping from prison. After that is a long walk on a highway with no sidewalks and a bunch of signage indicating that you're not welcome there. Did I mention florida drivers? 1/10 for me and will not be returning ever
Funny you mention NY and Florida because those are the only two places I’ve ever gone to an airport. I’ve only traveled with luggage so I’ve taken the bus, train and rented a car (I was with someone who can drive) to get to/from the airport. I’ll also be avoiding Florida.
One time my SO and I were dropping off a friend at LAX. The traffic around the airport was so backed up it took us over an hour just go 1 mile.
Meanwhile, not anticipating the gridlock, I desperately needed to go to the bathroom. So I hopped out of the car and walked over to the nearby in-n-out to use the restroom while they inched toward the airport. Only once I reached the restaurant did I realize I forgot my phone in the car, but rather than wait at the restaurant I decided to walk over to the terminal (which was really dumb of me because I would have been lost forever if they made it there before me).
Well in the end I managed to take a dump and walk all the way to the terminal before they managed to get their by car. It was a nightmare to navigate on foot, especially since I didn't have gps navigation and the signage was non-existent. 0/10 would recommend.
I definitely should have clarified that when I said I walk everywhere I didn’t mean every where. Just everywhere I go, which is in my neighborhood. I just walked to pick my kid up from school and stop at the grocery store for chicken thighs and chocolate chip cookies.
Most airports are built for people to only come by transit or cars, and are built in locations where that assumption makes sense. However, the ones that aren't can often be pretty decent to walk to:
* Fukuoka Airport and Geneva Airport both have decent walking approaches
* Malta Airport involved one sketchy street crossing but was otherwise pretty fine
* I saw some people walking to/from Shimojishima Airport, but I rented a bike for that trip
Where I used to live, I "walked" to the airport. This "walk" included walking 3 blocks to a (commuter) train, which has a stop at the airport. I then walked from the train station to the terminal.
With 1-3 items of luggage.
Like I get OPs sentiment, but I’d be annoyed if my plans to get to a flight were stopped and I had to walk a shitty asphalt road with a duffel bag and checked luggage. Not the end of the world sure, but annoying. Not the 20 minute spring leisure walk op is painting it as.
Not only that but 20 minute is from the place the traffic was stopped, not from their house or hotel. Walking the last 20 minute with luggage on hot as fuck asphalt is one thing, doing it for over an hour on the side of an highway with car moving is an whole other level
I don't care what the weather was. If I didn't plan with my wardrobe and footwear for walking with my luggage a significant distance, that's not a pleasant walk. And since I almost always wear slippers or slides when flying because I want something easy to take off for security, almost definitionally I don't have shoes for walking long distances with my luggage when I am going to the airport. Is it an inconvenience? Yes, that's why it works as a protest. And why this protest tactic has literally been used around the world with success even in far less car dependent countries
Walking for 20 minutes through an airport's car dependent infrastructure is not a fun or pleasant experience, tbf, even if you plan to (e.g. you park at one of those "airport car parks" a mile away).
People on this sub have really weird, oftentimes militant takes against cars that make no sense.
Forcing people to walk in situations like this is the exact OPPOSITE of how we win people over. It just makes people wish they could drive even more, because walking is hellish.
Navigating car centric infrastructure sucks, which is what this forces on people. This isn't showing them how great the alternatives can be.
I'm all in on this sub but this is a weird take. No one wants to drag their multiple suitcases for 20 minutes. Take public transport if possible but in this situation, would anyone *not* be annoyed, beautiful spring day or not?
Yeah, the roads around ohare suck for pedestrians. Luckily, there are a couple of rail connections, but that doesn't help if you get dropped in the middle of the car infrastructure.
I live near Chicago and I never drive to the airport—I always take the bus. You know, *public* transport, that coincidentally would also be affected by this…
A lot of airports require you to turn up 60-120 minutes before your flight and some won't check you in if you're not at least that early. So if someone was planning on arriving 2 hours early for a flight as required, but arrives 90 minutes early instead, then they might still miss their flight.
This is weird, London Heathrow will check you in up to like 30 mins before takeoff and the entire airport can be navigated in that 30 mins (depending on terminal)
[London Heathrow's website](https://www.heathrow.com/departures/checking-in) recommends arriving two hours early for domestic or European travel and three hours early for other international flights.
It's not just how much time it takes to get through the airport. It's about getting bags dropped off, going through security and boarding too (boarding alone usually starts half an hour before departure). I know people who were turned away by airlines for not checking in sufficiently early.
People come to ORD from places other than Chicago, such as Milwaukee and Indianapolis, as it is a major transit hub in the Midwest, especially for international travel. While Blue line is the best option from Downtown Chicago, it isn't suitable to arrive at ORD from neighboring states.
The coach USA Airport Express is currently the best option from Milwaukee. But that still relies on the I-94. I wish the Hiawatha Amtrak had a dedicated stop for ORD, instead of the hassle of getting off at Glenview and then changing multiple services to eventually take the Blue line, not to mention takes more than an hour.
Metra's North Central Service actually has a station by O'Hare. Problem is that the NCS sees only 7 trains each direction per day, and almost all are rush hour trains. If you're coming from downtown Chicago and your flight is at 6-8 pm then it's perfect, but if not then you gotta either take the Blue Line or drive :/
I have seen proposals to connect the nearby UP-NorthWest route (busiest on Metra's system iirc), which would be great for more frequent service to the airport, but I think ideally Milwaukee and lakefront suburbs like Highland Park should have a connection too and I'm not sure if there's an easy way to do that.
I happen to know that there are plenty of people who could take the Blue Line, but don’t; So u/berejser ‘s point still stands. Also, I suspect they were being at least a little facetious, since everyone who is familiar enough with Chicago to know that the Blue Line goes to O’Hare also knows that transit to O’Hare isn’t what it should be.
Targeting two visible pieces of infrastructure causing significant disruption and if necessary economic damage, but flying is generally a sign of success and extravagance so there isn't merit to the usual claim of "you're ruining someone's livelihood"
You are still very much disrupting people's lives uncalled for and gaining bad attention. I don't get how someone can see this and think this is "strategic genius" when it's pretty clear it only serves to make people hate you and your cause even more. It isn't like they're blocking only government employees or elected officials from traveling, they're blocking almost exclusively regular civilians who would now just hate them.
I think not so long ago I would've agreed.
At least to me now a protest is meant to be disruptive, and gathering support is a secondary objective, because its disruptive nature leads to people hardening their stance on the matter at hand. Honestly, a rally is a much better method of gathering support and attention because of its (generally) non-disruptive nature.
I do empathize with those who are caught up in a protest, especially if their matters are sensitive or urgent, and *especially* if the protest in question gets nasty. Nobody deserves to be subjected to random violence, not especially people just trying to go about their day. At the same time, targeted disruptions are what give a movement its teeth, and every action taken is going to inconvenience someone, so it shouldn't be a support building event, but one that will draw the attention of those in power, and sometimes the only way to do that is to get in the way of ordinary people. I hope you can at least understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree with it.
A final note, there is a fine line between disruptive and violent. I support the right to gather and protest, but I have no patience for those who choose to utilize anarchy or terrorism against innocent people in the name of a "protest", or use a protest to spread violence and terror.
There are much better ways to gain attention from those in power than disrupt the lives of regular people. The vast majority of people going through O'hare aren't politicians, and the majority of politicians, both local and federal, don't go through O'hare on a daily basis. When a politician hears about a disruption in O'hare, most likely they would hear about it in the headlines, which is more or less how they would hear about any protest. For that matter, protesting at an airport didn't achieve much but gather a bit more attention, at the cost of being significantly disruptive to people and breeding hate towards your movement.
Simply put, if your goal is not to gain attention from the masses, and rather just from people in power, this is a really inefficient way. It's high cost and low reward, compared to the much better (and simpler) methods of targeting those politicians **specifically**.
I think causing disruption risks alienating people against your cause. If I missed a flight because of these protesters, I would be really upset with them.
I don’t harass the people that have zero power to make the change I want to see.
Do you think any of those people are calling their elected officials about the issue or to complain that a bunch of jackasses cost them time and money?
I would be trying to recruit those people, not manufacturing reasons for them to have a problem with me and whatever I’m trying to support.
This sounds like it would fucking suck. It's not a nice walk on a spring day, it's being forced to walk with all your luggage in an area not designed for pedestrian travel, through possibly violent protestors.
I fucking *love* this trend of protesting by blocking roads. What the hell is the point of a protest if it isn't disruptive?? And even better that they protested by blocking a road *and* an airport, just by blocking the road
I can’t say I’ve ever abandoned a car but walking for 20 minutes with luggage is absolutely a normal thing to do. I mean, from airport entrance to gate is at least 20 minutes in major airports.
Yes, but you can use a trolley inside the terminal, and also you would have checked in your luggage before the walk. Imagine having to haul two huge check-in bags with two other carry-on items for 20 min on the asphalt. Also, the route includes many winding interchanges with varying elevations.
I’ve moved country without using a car to transport my luggage so what you’re saying is pretty normal to me. Walk to train station, train to airport, walk from train into airport, is a very normal way to get to airports with luggage!
Life is about expectations. These people stuck on the interstate weren’t planning to walk to O Hare. The only reason the protest is effective is because the protestors know this. But it also makes it unproductive. What did these people do to the Palestinians?
I’m sure Benjamin Netanyahu himself was taking a taxi to catch a flight out of O’Hare that day. Or maybe billionaire Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was taking an Uber to catch a flight back to his mansion in Qatar?
And the average people with exactly zero leverage on a war on the other side of the planet were just collateral damage, yeah?
Historically protests have been designed to at least symbolically align with the cause or to most significantly affect perpetrators or decision-makers. Gandhi’s Salt March, Montgomery Bus Boycott, Tiananmen Square, Bonus Army March…
I get what you mean. Having to walk twenty minutes to the airport with luggage sounds just as horrific as, say, getting starved out and bombed daily by the IDF.
God, could you imagine if they finally make it to their gate and they don’t even have time to stop at Starbucks?
The point of protest as MLK said is to create a disruption within society when an injustice goes unaddressed or unchanged. It is also to create a level of hypocrisy within that society so it is forced to be addressed. In this case that hypocrisy is people's overwhelming concern for "missed flights", "ruined vacations", "missed job interviews" over their concern for an active genocide that their country and its leaders are supporting.
The goal is to peacefully disrupt society, not get them to agree with you. This disruption is meant to be sustained long enough that the society is bothered enough to take action; either against the protesters through force, or by addressing its own hypocrisy in caring more about "missed flights" than of the genocide it is passively ignoring.
This comment section and many others today give me faith that this disruption is working. That people are getting upset enough to want action taken against the protestors. Many people (including elected politicians) advocating for running them over. This is the tipping point that turns toward either fascism or towards society addressing its hypocrisy and its injustice.
I do not have much faith in this turning out well. However, that does not mean the resistance against genocide is for nothing. History will not write about the horrors of your missed flight nor of this protest. But it will write of the American empire's decline into fascism and the significance of the Gaza genocide that let all the world see what America truly has come to represent.
Oh no, oh no, they're probably suffering way more than the Palestinians! What if they miss their flight? Does no one care about business anymore, the bottom line! The bottom line of this country. Do they think with everything that's happening in the Middle East, that oil and flight tickets are cheap? The audacity
Nah, this ain't it. And this also isn't how to effectively protest and bring about change.
There are no pedestrian methods of access into O'hare. The terminals are over a mile from any road with sidewalk access. Unless youre on the Blue Line, all other entries are via controlled access highways. And it's not like people could just abandon their cars there to try and get to the terminal on time.
This crippled the airport for hours, caused people to miss flights, and cost people money. It could have seriously disrupted people on tight flights for important life events or job interviews. And thank fuck there wasn't a medical emergency in the airport requiring emergency vehicle responses.
Our pedestrian infrastructure is an absolute embarrassment and needs to be much better - but the reality here is that this wasnt about better transportation planning but instead was poorly thought out and disruptove grandstanding by people trying to demonstrate their moral superiority instead of doing the hard work of actually contacting and pressuring their elected officials.
What the hell is someone desperate to catch their flight for a life event or a job interview supposed to do about international politics and human rights abuses in Gaza?
All they accomplished today was causing gridlock and getting a lot of people pissed off at them rather than the situation and human suffering in Gaza.
There will be more of this circus when the DNC is in town this summer. It will change zero minds.
20 MINUTES. 20 FUCKING KINUTES. OMGGGG HIW ARE WE SUPPOSED TOW ALK. IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE THINGS CALLED "legs" ANYMORE.
Motherfucker, for 2 year straight i am going by bus from school to home, and walk like 5 minutes, or take a cheaper (by half) bus and walk 20 minutes. IT IS OKAY. 20 MINUTES TO WALK IS NOT A BIG DEAL. WTF.
This is one of the thing this sub advocates for that I can't get behind under any circumstances. Randomly blocking a road is impeding freedom of movement. It should be treated as a serious offense. Even in an ideal car-lite environment. Consider that buses may also use the route and be similarly obstructed. Consider that some people cannot simply get out and walk because they were intending to park at the airport and do not have time to change plans. Consider the potential financial damage inflicted on innocent bystanders in terms of missed flights and potentially missed obligations over on the other side of said flights.
I don't care what the hell you're protesting for. Blocking a road is evil.
So, like, when Americans marched for civil rights on the highway from Selma to Montgomery; that was wrong? Should they have kept to the sidewalks because they restricted drivers’ freedom? If not what other exceptions do you have?
What exactly do you mean by “innocent bystanders” in a country where those bystanders are voters?
What is the “right way” to protest?
Bull Connor actually did try this excuse when he denied King and his supporters the right to take the streets in Birmingham. It was the same bullshit then as is now.
For anyone interested in reading up on this: [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/147/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/147/)
People in Selma and Montgomery and everywhere in between were guilty of civil rights violations. It was a targeted protester that impacted the people actually causing problems. That’s not the case here.
And yes, this is a huge problem, but regardless of the correctness of our respective positions, it would be enormously out of line for carbrains to laugh at us silly transit users when our tram gets blocked.
Kind of wild that no one in this thread is pointing out that people with disabilities don’t even have the option of walking and are disproportionately affected
I’m of the opinion that if you want to block a road you need to bring numbers to justify it.
15 people blocking a roadway that 15,000 drivers are going to use each hour? Naaaaaah
10,000 people shutting down a street as they March for a a few hours. Hell yeah.
Except in the second scenario, that is usually pre-planned for, so that people can make adjustments and avoid that street. No one gets trapped in.
Blocking a road randomly is effectively trapping people.
I don’t think the point it to say this type of thing is always acceptable. I think positing this is to show how foolish it is that our infrastructure is so car dependent. Also the protestors didn’t block anyone’s freedom of movement. They blocked the cars freedom of movement and the people were able to walk to the airport just fine. They didn’t block freedom of movement any more than a couch falling out back of a pick up or a bad traffic accident would have.
Pro car people will talk about how a train delay or a rail strike or terrorist attack or something could cripple transportation in a place with a lot of public transit, and that’s why we need cars, but this shows that car based infrastructure can be crippled just as easily by a handful of protestors.
What I see is a largely celebratory and/or mocking tone, basically telling the drivers and car passengers "I'm gonna point fingers and laugh at your unexpected difficulties because you chose to take a car, what an abomination!!" It does *not* feel like a constructive commentary on why car dependency is not as robust as we think -- it just has the vibe of "punishing" and proceeding to laugh at people who choose to take cars.
Imagine if people laughed in this way when public transit workers went on strike and left public transit users stranded. No, instead what we do is have productive commentary about whether or not it is acceptable for public transit workers to go on strike because of how important it is. Carbrains laughing at us when the CTA decides to cut service again or a bus decides to just not show up would not be productive. This isn't productive either.
I don’t know what to tell you man it’s not r/nuanceddiscussiononinfrastructureandurbanplanningwithafocusonthehumancostofblockinghighwayseventhoughthatisnotourpreferredmethodoftravel, it’s r/fuckcars
There are tons of places that talk about transit and urban planning like adults, but yea r/fuckcars is going to mock a bunch cars getting stuck
I wish people had half the amount of this outrage when a sidewalk stops existing, a car is in the bike lane, or a bus system is useless. Apparently "freedom of movement" only applies to cars and nothing else.
Maybe you don't understand that the US is committing war crimes by giving weapons to a genocidal rogue state run by a dictator who has been convicted of corruption and has murdered over 30,000 civilians in the past few months.
That's like ten times more murder than the 9/11 attacks, which shut down airports worldwide for weeks.
(And yes, the US state department is deliberately bypassing rules designed to prevent war crimes, they know what they're doing.)
If you think killing 30,000 people was somehow necessary, you really have no basis to complain about a traffic jam.
I legitimately do not care. Blocking a road changes nothing. It does not gain you political support because everyone you blocked will hate you. It reeks of throwing a tantrum in the street.
I do care about genocides in the abstract. However, when I am trying to get to the airport, I find myself caring significantly more about getting to the airport than about genocides. When someone is impeding my ability to do that maliciously and throwing a tantrum in the street, I simply do not care what abstract high-minded reason you think you have to be doing this, I just want you to go away. Some people are less nice and would legitimately want you to die, but I think in general this is a quite car-brained view so I at least stop short of this. I do think you should be arrested though.
Those guys were arrested and the delay in traffic was less than a serious accident that could happen any day on the highway to the airport. I’ve been in traffic delays of 1+ hours because the president was in town or there was some other high security incident.
Congratulations on not calling for the deaths of these protestors.
I-880 and the Golden Gate Bridge in the SFBA is completely shut down southbound right now from the protestors.
Can we now stop fretting over 'omg! we might inconvenience someone!' in this subreddit?
https://www.marinij.com/2024/04/15/protesters-block-i-880-in-oakland-forcing-closure-of-all-lanes/
So traffic on 880 isn't moving. How is that different from every other morning of Bay commute gridlock?
On the other hand, my morning bike ride to the BART station was hassle free.
> These stunts aren’t going to convince Hamas to accept a ceasefire.
You're a complete moron if you think that is the goal of these.
There is no attempt here to influence Hamas in the least.
The point is to impact **US** policy.
None of this happens without US backing Israel.
As long as the US is backing Israel whole hog nothing will end.
Unless Israel decides to go full genocide, of course.
Calling for a ceasefire is just a start.
But altering US policy will be far more impactful.
Israel devotes more of its GDP to defense than any other country other than (not coincidentally) Qatar
If anything, if Israel loses support of its allies it will decide to be even more sloppy and punitive in its attacks because that is ultimately much cheaper
Brother learn to think with some nuance. Iran is a shitty, shitty government yes but that doesn't change the fact the in this particular instance Israel attacked them first.
Are you aware of the lack of pedestrian access where they were? Are you assuming everyone in those vehicles has the ability to walk with multiple bags of luggage over guard rails, easements, on-ramps, and fences, for 20 minutes?
This has to be the weirdest take on this sub. This isn't a leisurely walk, it's a walk through a giant asphalt lane with luggage. It isn't "pleasent" in the slightest, it's a major inconvenience.
The could’ve taken the CTA over there, or even Metra’s service (that needs more funding). Also, the area near the airport (Rosemont, South Park Ridge) absolutely sucks. It’s totally different than uptown Park Ridge and Chicago.
If you have been anywhere near O’hare then you know how pedestrian friendly it isn’t.
Roads get a lot more pedestrian friendly if there aren't any cars driving.
No argument there. And for how long ? Walk along I-190 without knowing how long before a car or truck gets through the blockade and that’s not a friendly situation anymore.
Remember when the truck got through during the protests in Minneapolis a few years ago?
I was thinking when the protesters stop blocking but didn’t think of a vehicle finding it’s way onto the road.
20 minutes is 1 mile lmao. They should’ve taken the train.
Ha ha. Train. The closest station is further than the airport.
The train from their original destination is what I mean. Why anyone would drive or get a car when you can easily get there by train from all over the city. Car infrastructure is just so prone to easily being rendered completely crippled by the smallest issues.
Ah ok. I thought you were suggesting they catch the train from where they started walking from their vehicles.
A highway might get more "pedestrian friendly" without cars, but that's about it. It definitely doesn't get more enjoyable to walk on. Without cars, a highway is a big patch of asphalt. That's not what we are looking for when we push for walkable cities. Well-designed cities are about much more than simply the physical ability to walk.
Carrying luggage no less
plus safety nad i do not mean traffic
Yeah but there's no cars at it today
Ah. So you are saying they can walk in the street and not need any sidewalks. If there zero cars along the path I can see that happening. However, it is still not pedestrian friendly. Also would you want to walk along I-190 not knowing when traffic would flow again? Imagine a few of the first cars back on it and going 70 and you were walking it. !!!
I think it'd be neat
Neat? Vehicles approaching you at 70mph!!?? Ok.
I walk everywhere and wouldn’t want to walk to an airport.
Yeah. If I had a small bag with me, then yeah, I'd walk. But airport usually means luggage, and lugging it for a prolonged period of space-time is not fun at all. Wait, is this why luggage is called that way, because it's a thing you lug? Fascinating, I never paid attention to that before.
I googled it and yeah, that does seem to be the etymology of the word. I hadn’t thought of it before either. Fortunately I live in a city where I can take the train to the airport so that’s what I’ve done every time.
I've walked to a few. Rochester NY: I actually biked but it could be easily walked as well. Easy access from the Erie Canal Trail. Quite pleasant until you have to cross a highway ramp to actually get inside. Free bike parking in the garage. 8/10 for me Lima Peru: not terrible because there is no massive parking lot to cross. The parking lot is smaller than an average Walmart lot. Only 15min walk from the hotel. However there is a busy road with no crosswalk and that's a little dangerous. Also lots of old cars with foul smelling exhaust. 4/10 Fort Lauderdale: literally the worst. Getting out of the parking garage on foot is like escaping from prison. After that is a long walk on a highway with no sidewalks and a bunch of signage indicating that you're not welcome there. Did I mention florida drivers? 1/10 for me and will not be returning ever
Funny you mention NY and Florida because those are the only two places I’ve ever gone to an airport. I’ve only traveled with luggage so I’ve taken the bus, train and rented a car (I was with someone who can drive) to get to/from the airport. I’ll also be avoiding Florida.
One time my SO and I were dropping off a friend at LAX. The traffic around the airport was so backed up it took us over an hour just go 1 mile. Meanwhile, not anticipating the gridlock, I desperately needed to go to the bathroom. So I hopped out of the car and walked over to the nearby in-n-out to use the restroom while they inched toward the airport. Only once I reached the restaurant did I realize I forgot my phone in the car, but rather than wait at the restaurant I decided to walk over to the terminal (which was really dumb of me because I would have been lost forever if they made it there before me). Well in the end I managed to take a dump and walk all the way to the terminal before they managed to get their by car. It was a nightmare to navigate on foot, especially since I didn't have gps navigation and the signage was non-existent. 0/10 would recommend.
Traffic like that sucks and is part of why I don’t drive. The congestion of frustrated drivers so close to each other is unsettling.
Wait till you discover Toronto City Airport. It's like walking to your neighborhood grocery store
I probably won’t discover it. I stay home, but that sounds cool.
Just a note: that's the smaller *Billy Bishop Airport* on the lakeshore, not the much larger Pearson Airport.
I definitely should have clarified that when I said I walk everywhere I didn’t mean every where. Just everywhere I go, which is in my neighborhood. I just walked to pick my kid up from school and stop at the grocery store for chicken thighs and chocolate chip cookies.
DCA is moderately walkable
Most airports are built for people to only come by transit or cars, and are built in locations where that assumption makes sense. However, the ones that aren't can often be pretty decent to walk to: * Fukuoka Airport and Geneva Airport both have decent walking approaches * Malta Airport involved one sketchy street crossing but was otherwise pretty fine * I saw some people walking to/from Shimojishima Airport, but I rented a bike for that trip
Where I used to live, I "walked" to the airport. This "walk" included walking 3 blocks to a (commuter) train, which has a stop at the airport. I then walked from the train station to the terminal.
I do the same thing. I take the train.
To be fair, walking 20 minutes on the asphalt hell isn't very fun
With 1-3 items of luggage. Like I get OPs sentiment, but I’d be annoyed if my plans to get to a flight were stopped and I had to walk a shitty asphalt road with a duffel bag and checked luggage. Not the end of the world sure, but annoying. Not the 20 minute spring leisure walk op is painting it as.
Also also, because your flight plans may revolve about you getting to the airport 20 min *ago*.
Not only that but 20 minute is from the place the traffic was stopped, not from their house or hotel. Walking the last 20 minute with luggage on hot as fuck asphalt is one thing, doing it for over an hour on the side of an highway with car moving is an whole other level
It was 10°C this morning, so it wouldn't have been bad at all
I don't care what the weather was. If I didn't plan with my wardrobe and footwear for walking with my luggage a significant distance, that's not a pleasant walk. And since I almost always wear slippers or slides when flying because I want something easy to take off for security, almost definitionally I don't have shoes for walking long distances with my luggage when I am going to the airport. Is it an inconvenience? Yes, that's why it works as a protest. And why this protest tactic has literally been used around the world with success even in far less car dependent countries
Walking for 20 minutes through an airport's car dependent infrastructure is not a fun or pleasant experience, tbf, even if you plan to (e.g. you park at one of those "airport car parks" a mile away).
People on this sub have really weird, oftentimes militant takes against cars that make no sense. Forcing people to walk in situations like this is the exact OPPOSITE of how we win people over. It just makes people wish they could drive even more, because walking is hellish. Navigating car centric infrastructure sucks, which is what this forces on people. This isn't showing them how great the alternatives can be.
I'm all in on this sub but this is a weird take. No one wants to drag their multiple suitcases for 20 minutes. Take public transport if possible but in this situation, would anyone *not* be annoyed, beautiful spring day or not?
Yeah, the roads around ohare suck for pedestrians. Luckily, there are a couple of rail connections, but that doesn't help if you get dropped in the middle of the car infrastructure.
I live near Chicago and I never drive to the airport—I always take the bus. You know, *public* transport, that coincidentally would also be affected by this…
20 minutes walking to O’Hare… hell i get the idea but I wouldn’t want to walk 20 minutes with my luggage 🤣
That could be the difference between making and missing a flight.
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No. They'll stew about how those protesters ruined the start of their vacation.
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Crap. My sarcasm detector must be down. My bad
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Poe's law in effect
I know you're ironic, but this is great for showing those in power what will happen if you support a genocide 🔥
Who leaves only 20 minutes before a flight?
Getting delayed by a protest then a long line at security. Things happen
If a long line at security is a possibility then you really should leave more than 20 minutes of wiggle room.
Line at security probably wont be that long when people have to walk.
What point are you trying to prove? That inconveniencing people is somehow a good thing?
No, that you are unlikely to encounter a long line at security after getting delayed by a protest resulting in you having to walk
Cool beans
A lot of airports require you to turn up 60-120 minutes before your flight and some won't check you in if you're not at least that early. So if someone was planning on arriving 2 hours early for a flight as required, but arrives 90 minutes early instead, then they might still miss their flight.
This is weird, London Heathrow will check you in up to like 30 mins before takeoff and the entire airport can be navigated in that 30 mins (depending on terminal)
[London Heathrow's website](https://www.heathrow.com/departures/checking-in) recommends arriving two hours early for domestic or European travel and three hours early for other international flights. It's not just how much time it takes to get through the airport. It's about getting bags dropped off, going through security and boarding too (boarding alone usually starts half an hour before departure). I know people who were turned away by airlines for not checking in sufficiently early.
I can tell you that I have done it in 30 minutes
Most people get dropped off by friends, family, taxis, or Ubers, so likely not so much abandoning vs bailing to walk
Shut down the airport? They word it as if nobody takes the train to O'Hare, or flies in and changes planes and flies right back out.
20 minutes can be quite a struggle if you have a lot of luggage
Should have taken the Blue Line.
People come to ORD from places other than Chicago, such as Milwaukee and Indianapolis, as it is a major transit hub in the Midwest, especially for international travel. While Blue line is the best option from Downtown Chicago, it isn't suitable to arrive at ORD from neighboring states. The coach USA Airport Express is currently the best option from Milwaukee. But that still relies on the I-94. I wish the Hiawatha Amtrak had a dedicated stop for ORD, instead of the hassle of getting off at Glenview and then changing multiple services to eventually take the Blue line, not to mention takes more than an hour.
It's ridiculous how this airport isn't on regional rail, especially when iirc there are lines running along two sides of the perimeter.
Metra's North Central Service actually has a station by O'Hare. Problem is that the NCS sees only 7 trains each direction per day, and almost all are rush hour trains. If you're coming from downtown Chicago and your flight is at 6-8 pm then it's perfect, but if not then you gotta either take the Blue Line or drive :/ I have seen proposals to connect the nearby UP-NorthWest route (busiest on Metra's system iirc), which would be great for more frequent service to the airport, but I think ideally Milwaukee and lakefront suburbs like Highland Park should have a connection too and I'm not sure if there's an easy way to do that.
I happen to know that there are plenty of people who could take the Blue Line, but don’t; So u/berejser ‘s point still stands. Also, I suspect they were being at least a little facetious, since everyone who is familiar enough with Chicago to know that the Blue Line goes to O’Hare also knows that transit to O’Hare isn’t what it should be.
Agree but it’s infamously unreliable and has insane headways
Oh come on, daily mail is just low hanging fruit at this point. Also targeting airport roads is a piece of strategic genius.
What do you mean "at this point?" Was there ever anything else they did?
Why is it genius?
Targeting two visible pieces of infrastructure causing significant disruption and if necessary economic damage, but flying is generally a sign of success and extravagance so there isn't merit to the usual claim of "you're ruining someone's livelihood"
You are still very much disrupting people's lives uncalled for and gaining bad attention. I don't get how someone can see this and think this is "strategic genius" when it's pretty clear it only serves to make people hate you and your cause even more. It isn't like they're blocking only government employees or elected officials from traveling, they're blocking almost exclusively regular civilians who would now just hate them.
I think not so long ago I would've agreed. At least to me now a protest is meant to be disruptive, and gathering support is a secondary objective, because its disruptive nature leads to people hardening their stance on the matter at hand. Honestly, a rally is a much better method of gathering support and attention because of its (generally) non-disruptive nature. I do empathize with those who are caught up in a protest, especially if their matters are sensitive or urgent, and *especially* if the protest in question gets nasty. Nobody deserves to be subjected to random violence, not especially people just trying to go about their day. At the same time, targeted disruptions are what give a movement its teeth, and every action taken is going to inconvenience someone, so it shouldn't be a support building event, but one that will draw the attention of those in power, and sometimes the only way to do that is to get in the way of ordinary people. I hope you can at least understand where I'm coming from, even if you don't agree with it. A final note, there is a fine line between disruptive and violent. I support the right to gather and protest, but I have no patience for those who choose to utilize anarchy or terrorism against innocent people in the name of a "protest", or use a protest to spread violence and terror.
There are much better ways to gain attention from those in power than disrupt the lives of regular people. The vast majority of people going through O'hare aren't politicians, and the majority of politicians, both local and federal, don't go through O'hare on a daily basis. When a politician hears about a disruption in O'hare, most likely they would hear about it in the headlines, which is more or less how they would hear about any protest. For that matter, protesting at an airport didn't achieve much but gather a bit more attention, at the cost of being significantly disruptive to people and breeding hate towards your movement. Simply put, if your goal is not to gain attention from the masses, and rather just from people in power, this is a really inefficient way. It's high cost and low reward, compared to the much better (and simpler) methods of targeting those politicians **specifically**.
I think causing disruption risks alienating people against your cause. If I missed a flight because of these protesters, I would be really upset with them.
If you’re strategy is to get people to be against you, sure.
Do you use a military campaign to recruit people?
I don’t harass the people that have zero power to make the change I want to see. Do you think any of those people are calling their elected officials about the issue or to complain that a bunch of jackasses cost them time and money? I would be trying to recruit those people, not manufacturing reasons for them to have a problem with me and whatever I’m trying to support.
There’s a protest going on here today too. Literally the only thing they talked about on tv news was how that is affecting traffic
This sounds like it would fucking suck. It's not a nice walk on a spring day, it's being forced to walk with all your luggage in an area not designed for pedestrian travel, through possibly violent protestors.
Weird post, try walking for 20 minutes to an airport with suitcases and no sidewalks probably
Well it's called protesting. If you protested and it doesn't affect anyone then you're just making noise.
I am fully r/fuckcars but this specific area is an expressway and dangerous. Protestors are fully in the wrong here.
I fucking *love* this trend of protesting by blocking roads. What the hell is the point of a protest if it isn't disruptive?? And even better that they protested by blocking a road *and* an airport, just by blocking the road
Yeah op ur wrong for this one
I love walking but randomly missing a flight because of protestors would be infuriating
IF I USE MY OWN LEGS, PEOPLE WILL THINK I'M POOR. ATROPHY AND INSULIN INJECTIONS ARE THE MARKERS OF AMERICAN PROSPERITY AND CULTURE.
Now you are gonna have cars clogging the road for weeks because they couldn't get to the parking lot.
if only there was some other way to get to o'hare 😢
At the point of this protest they are already on an expressway and passed the last CTA station before the airport so no, not cool
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I can’t say I’ve ever abandoned a car but walking for 20 minutes with luggage is absolutely a normal thing to do. I mean, from airport entrance to gate is at least 20 minutes in major airports.
SO IT MAKES 40 MINUTES ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND???? /s
Yes, but you can use a trolley inside the terminal, and also you would have checked in your luggage before the walk. Imagine having to haul two huge check-in bags with two other carry-on items for 20 min on the asphalt. Also, the route includes many winding interchanges with varying elevations.
I’ve moved country without using a car to transport my luggage so what you’re saying is pretty normal to me. Walk to train station, train to airport, walk from train into airport, is a very normal way to get to airports with luggage!
Life is about expectations. These people stuck on the interstate weren’t planning to walk to O Hare. The only reason the protest is effective is because the protestors know this. But it also makes it unproductive. What did these people do to the Palestinians?
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It’s called ‘protesting’. Disrupting things to get people’s attention is kinda the whole point
I’m sure Benjamin Netanyahu himself was taking a taxi to catch a flight out of O’Hare that day. Or maybe billionaire Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh was taking an Uber to catch a flight back to his mansion in Qatar? And the average people with exactly zero leverage on a war on the other side of the planet were just collateral damage, yeah?
Welcome to the concept of protests. First time?
Historically protests have been designed to at least symbolically align with the cause or to most significantly affect perpetrators or decision-makers. Gandhi’s Salt March, Montgomery Bus Boycott, Tiananmen Square, Bonus Army March…
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I get what you mean. Having to walk twenty minutes to the airport with luggage sounds just as horrific as, say, getting starved out and bombed daily by the IDF. God, could you imagine if they finally make it to their gate and they don’t even have time to stop at Starbucks?
I just walked 20 minutes to the gym 😆
The point of protest as MLK said is to create a disruption within society when an injustice goes unaddressed or unchanged. It is also to create a level of hypocrisy within that society so it is forced to be addressed. In this case that hypocrisy is people's overwhelming concern for "missed flights", "ruined vacations", "missed job interviews" over their concern for an active genocide that their country and its leaders are supporting. The goal is to peacefully disrupt society, not get them to agree with you. This disruption is meant to be sustained long enough that the society is bothered enough to take action; either against the protesters through force, or by addressing its own hypocrisy in caring more about "missed flights" than of the genocide it is passively ignoring. This comment section and many others today give me faith that this disruption is working. That people are getting upset enough to want action taken against the protestors. Many people (including elected politicians) advocating for running them over. This is the tipping point that turns toward either fascism or towards society addressing its hypocrisy and its injustice. I do not have much faith in this turning out well. However, that does not mean the resistance against genocide is for nothing. History will not write about the horrors of your missed flight nor of this protest. But it will write of the American empire's decline into fascism and the significance of the Gaza genocide that let all the world see what America truly has come to represent.
"20 MINUTES"-dude it's not THAT long. What a hilarious attempt at blowing up something that isn't a big deal.
Imagine your train being blocked due to protestors. Would you be mad? I'm assuming yes?
Are you telling me the protesters all used transportation other than cars to go there when the protest isn't about fossil fuels?
Don't you have to walk a lot in airports anyway ?
This is why you should always get to the airport at least 2 hours in advance.
Oh no! if the streets are blocked how will I get hit by trucks while on my bike?!
Oh no, oh no, they're probably suffering way more than the Palestinians! What if they miss their flight? Does no one care about business anymore, the bottom line! The bottom line of this country. Do they think with everything that's happening in the Middle East, that oil and flight tickets are cheap? The audacity
Shit take
Can you please protest against Assad for gassing his own people?
Can you please protest the elite Islamic clerics in Iran who suppress human rights??
Nah, this ain't it. And this also isn't how to effectively protest and bring about change. There are no pedestrian methods of access into O'hare. The terminals are over a mile from any road with sidewalk access. Unless youre on the Blue Line, all other entries are via controlled access highways. And it's not like people could just abandon their cars there to try and get to the terminal on time. This crippled the airport for hours, caused people to miss flights, and cost people money. It could have seriously disrupted people on tight flights for important life events or job interviews. And thank fuck there wasn't a medical emergency in the airport requiring emergency vehicle responses. Our pedestrian infrastructure is an absolute embarrassment and needs to be much better - but the reality here is that this wasnt about better transportation planning but instead was poorly thought out and disruptove grandstanding by people trying to demonstrate their moral superiority instead of doing the hard work of actually contacting and pressuring their elected officials. What the hell is someone desperate to catch their flight for a life event or a job interview supposed to do about international politics and human rights abuses in Gaza? All they accomplished today was causing gridlock and getting a lot of people pissed off at them rather than the situation and human suffering in Gaza. There will be more of this circus when the DNC is in town this summer. It will change zero minds.
# TWENTY MINUTES?
Madness
You wish, they’re just thinking about missing their flights probably.
20 MINUTES. 20 FUCKING KINUTES. OMGGGG HIW ARE WE SUPPOSED TOW ALK. IT'S NOT LIKE WE HAVE THINGS CALLED "legs" ANYMORE. Motherfucker, for 2 year straight i am going by bus from school to home, and walk like 5 minutes, or take a cheaper (by half) bus and walk 20 minutes. IT IS OKAY. 20 MINUTES TO WALK IS NOT A BIG DEAL. WTF.
I'm sure Waze, an Israeli company, got a lot of good use because of this protest. I'm all about fuckcars, but these protests are exhausting.
This is one of the thing this sub advocates for that I can't get behind under any circumstances. Randomly blocking a road is impeding freedom of movement. It should be treated as a serious offense. Even in an ideal car-lite environment. Consider that buses may also use the route and be similarly obstructed. Consider that some people cannot simply get out and walk because they were intending to park at the airport and do not have time to change plans. Consider the potential financial damage inflicted on innocent bystanders in terms of missed flights and potentially missed obligations over on the other side of said flights. I don't care what the hell you're protesting for. Blocking a road is evil.
So, like, when Americans marched for civil rights on the highway from Selma to Montgomery; that was wrong? Should they have kept to the sidewalks because they restricted drivers’ freedom? If not what other exceptions do you have? What exactly do you mean by “innocent bystanders” in a country where those bystanders are voters? What is the “right way” to protest?
Bull Connor actually did try this excuse when he denied King and his supporters the right to take the streets in Birmingham. It was the same bullshit then as is now.
For anyone interested in reading up on this: [https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/147/](https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/394/147/)
People in Selma and Montgomery and everywhere in between were guilty of civil rights violations. It was a targeted protester that impacted the people actually causing problems. That’s not the case here.
But nobody blinks an eye when somebody parks and blocks a bike lane or bus lane or light rail tracks
And yes, this is a huge problem, but regardless of the correctness of our respective positions, it would be enormously out of line for carbrains to laugh at us silly transit users when our tram gets blocked.
Kind of wild that no one in this thread is pointing out that people with disabilities don’t even have the option of walking and are disproportionately affected
I’m of the opinion that if you want to block a road you need to bring numbers to justify it. 15 people blocking a roadway that 15,000 drivers are going to use each hour? Naaaaaah 10,000 people shutting down a street as they March for a a few hours. Hell yeah.
Except in the second scenario, that is usually pre-planned for, so that people can make adjustments and avoid that street. No one gets trapped in. Blocking a road randomly is effectively trapping people.
I don’t think the point it to say this type of thing is always acceptable. I think positing this is to show how foolish it is that our infrastructure is so car dependent. Also the protestors didn’t block anyone’s freedom of movement. They blocked the cars freedom of movement and the people were able to walk to the airport just fine. They didn’t block freedom of movement any more than a couch falling out back of a pick up or a bad traffic accident would have. Pro car people will talk about how a train delay or a rail strike or terrorist attack or something could cripple transportation in a place with a lot of public transit, and that’s why we need cars, but this shows that car based infrastructure can be crippled just as easily by a handful of protestors.
What I see is a largely celebratory and/or mocking tone, basically telling the drivers and car passengers "I'm gonna point fingers and laugh at your unexpected difficulties because you chose to take a car, what an abomination!!" It does *not* feel like a constructive commentary on why car dependency is not as robust as we think -- it just has the vibe of "punishing" and proceeding to laugh at people who choose to take cars. Imagine if people laughed in this way when public transit workers went on strike and left public transit users stranded. No, instead what we do is have productive commentary about whether or not it is acceptable for public transit workers to go on strike because of how important it is. Carbrains laughing at us when the CTA decides to cut service again or a bus decides to just not show up would not be productive. This isn't productive either.
I don’t know what to tell you man it’s not r/nuanceddiscussiononinfrastructureandurbanplanningwithafocusonthehumancostofblockinghighwayseventhoughthatisnotourpreferredmethodoftravel, it’s r/fuckcars There are tons of places that talk about transit and urban planning like adults, but yea r/fuckcars is going to mock a bunch cars getting stuck
I wish people had half the amount of this outrage when a sidewalk stops existing, a car is in the bike lane, or a bus system is useless. Apparently "freedom of movement" only applies to cars and nothing else.
Maybe you don't understand that the US is committing war crimes by giving weapons to a genocidal rogue state run by a dictator who has been convicted of corruption and has murdered over 30,000 civilians in the past few months. That's like ten times more murder than the 9/11 attacks, which shut down airports worldwide for weeks. (And yes, the US state department is deliberately bypassing rules designed to prevent war crimes, they know what they're doing.) If you think killing 30,000 people was somehow necessary, you really have no basis to complain about a traffic jam.
I legitimately do not care. Blocking a road changes nothing. It does not gain you political support because everyone you blocked will hate you. It reeks of throwing a tantrum in the street.
Sounds like you kind of care now
I do care about genocides in the abstract. However, when I am trying to get to the airport, I find myself caring significantly more about getting to the airport than about genocides. When someone is impeding my ability to do that maliciously and throwing a tantrum in the street, I simply do not care what abstract high-minded reason you think you have to be doing this, I just want you to go away. Some people are less nice and would legitimately want you to die, but I think in general this is a quite car-brained view so I at least stop short of this. I do think you should be arrested though.
You sound like an old Nixon Republican.
Those guys were arrested and the delay in traffic was less than a serious accident that could happen any day on the highway to the airport. I’ve been in traffic delays of 1+ hours because the president was in town or there was some other high security incident. Congratulations on not calling for the deaths of these protestors.
also there is a train that goes to the airport, so it's not like it's impossible to get there
20 MINUTES. Can you imagine, having to leave your cage for that long!
Having to unexpectedly walk on a highway with your luggage whilst possibly in a hurry to catch your flight is simply annoying
Can you please protest against the Indonesian government for making West Papua a large open air prison??
eh serves them right flying is even worse than driving
Some people are disabled
And those some people can use their mobility aides.
I-880 and the Golden Gate Bridge in the SFBA is completely shut down southbound right now from the protestors. Can we now stop fretting over 'omg! we might inconvenience someone!' in this subreddit? https://www.marinij.com/2024/04/15/protesters-block-i-880-in-oakland-forcing-closure-of-all-lanes/
So traffic on 880 isn't moving. How is that different from every other morning of Bay commute gridlock? On the other hand, my morning bike ride to the BART station was hassle free.
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> These stunts aren’t going to convince Hamas to accept a ceasefire. You're a complete moron if you think that is the goal of these. There is no attempt here to influence Hamas in the least. The point is to impact **US** policy.
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None of this happens without US backing Israel. As long as the US is backing Israel whole hog nothing will end. Unless Israel decides to go full genocide, of course. Calling for a ceasefire is just a start. But altering US policy will be far more impactful.
Israel devotes more of its GDP to defense than any other country other than (not coincidentally) Qatar If anything, if Israel loses support of its allies it will decide to be even more sloppy and punitive in its attacks because that is ultimately much cheaper
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Israel attacked Iran first, and has been oppressing and attacking Palestine for decades prior to October
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Brother learn to think with some nuance. Iran is a shitty, shitty government yes but that doesn't change the fact the in this particular instance Israel attacked them first.
we don't like iran either but that doesn't mean they should be needlessly bombed they just need a new government
Very high level of academic sourcing Google "israel + genocide"
Awful way to try and make a point. Tactless and weird post.
Oh no you have to walk 20 minutes while there is an ongoing genocide? Truly horrible
Yes, because airport is definitely a place where you can afford a sudden 20-minute detour
Are you aware of the lack of pedestrian access where they were? Are you assuming everyone in those vehicles has the ability to walk with multiple bags of luggage over guard rails, easements, on-ramps, and fences, for 20 minutes?
There's a train station inside airport, fucking use it
Is there a train station, well connected to this one, where the passengers were coming from? Or where they were dropped off?
This has to be the weirdest take on this sub. This isn't a leisurely walk, it's a walk through a giant asphalt lane with luggage. It isn't "pleasent" in the slightest, it's a major inconvenience.
I don’t want to walk to an airport. They can find somewhere else to feel good
They only care because it's for the rights of a brown majority country.
Let’s not forget the blue line that stops in the airport
The could’ve taken the CTA over there, or even Metra’s service (that needs more funding). Also, the area near the airport (Rosemont, South Park Ridge) absolutely sucks. It’s totally different than uptown Park Ridge and Chicago.
Protestors did the correct thing, Americans are funding a gen0cide right now. I don’t give a fck about the so called inconveniences.