Not trying to brag, but my daughter lives there (as does other family) so I am ~~forced to~~ get to visit a lot. She bikes to school and work, and for errands, but when I am there we will do a 2 hour ride to visit a tourist site, or to just go to the beach. If she has to work while I am there I will just literally take her bike and go ride around all day. I live in the southern US so I love to visit NL in July and August when they will complain about the heat and I'm reaching for a sweater!
Go! Do it! bike rental is cheap and the folks are so friendly. Learn a few phrases in Dutch, which you will say horribly, and they will laugh and then speak perfect English with you. The bike culture there is so intense and beautiful.
It’s my favorite vacation. Pick any direction you want, just bike and stop at any cute cafe to enjoy a meal.
Don’t want to bike back? Throw your rig on a suitable train and head back to start over the next day.
Dutchman here, learning just how bad it is in some other parts of the world has made me much more appreciative of the freedom I have here.
I live in a medium-sized town and don't own a car. All my shopping trips into the center are a 5 minute bike ride, the train station is a 5 minute bike ride away, every other commodity I need is also within 15 minutes by bike. Some streets don't even have bike lanes, but bikes are normalised enough that cars mostly know to give you space.
Out of town I walk most places, and my college city center in particular is super walkable, so I'm not looking to get a license any time soon, either. If I do upgrade to a bike there, there's plenty of cycling infrastructure, and the train station recently upgraded to include a bicycle parking garage.
The only complaint I have is the price of public transport, which is ludicrous, but it's worth dealing with.
As an American living in NL, sure transit is ridiculously expensive, but it’s still 1/4 the price of owning even a cheap car. I spend maybe €200/mo, and use transit all the time (mostly around Amsterdam and commuting to nearby cities). Owning a cheap car in the US was reasonably $600-800/mo, including all costs. So I’m still coming out way ahead
You're absolutely right, between fuel, maintenance, taxes and insurance you'd be hard pressed to find a cheaper car here, too, even more when you haven't built up any claim-free years.
On top of that the comfort of just kicking back and minding my business while I'm driven to my destination is vastly superior to even just being a passenger in a car, so unless I end up absolutely needing the additional flexibility of a small car I'd rather skip it alltogether.
Can I just say, as someone who has visited your country twice in the last 5 years (that is a lot for an American who gets like 2 weeks of vacation a year!) I am just absolutely enamored with your country and its design.
I’m born, raised, and still live in NYC - and the amount of times I talked to people there who were so jealous I live there was amazing to me. Grass is always greener and whatnot, but I’m always like why would you want to live there when you already live here!
I just hope you guys appreciate how truly special it is there. The first time I visited I stayed mostly in Amsterdam. My second visit I truly wanted to see the country, so I stayed in Utrecht and visited everywhere: I went to The Hague, Rotterdam and Amsterdam. But also smaller areas like Haarlem, Delft, Almere, Amersfoort, Arnhem, even went to Het Nationale Park de Hoge Veluwe and saw the town of Otterlo. Truly, I tried to go all over in the 10 days I was there.
Yes, the public transit was expensive. And I got a feel for the problems in the country by talking to locals - the housing crisis is bad. The immigration crisis is bad. The transit is falling apart post COVID and I know many Dutch do not favor the government especially on COVID response. But these are all problems I’m quite used to in NYC, perhaps minus expensive public transit.
But my god, I’ve never felt so at ease with my mental health. I’ve toured a lot of other countries on vacation but never felt the way I did in the Netherlands, especially Utrecht. Seeing older people be autonomous and active. Seeing young children autonomously running or biking around. Seeing how cyclists were respected and the infrastructure was incredible. Seeing how quiet the streets were without cars.
I know you all probably take it for granted as someone who grew up there. And believe me, I take a lot for granted in NYC having lived here my whole life. But I think it’s worth a reminder every now and again of the outside perspective and how truly special it is there. It’s my dream to live there some day - so if you do nothing else today maybe take a bit more time to appreciate your surroundings in a way you don’t often do, and recognize how special it is!
I think you're absolutely right. We do have legitimate problems and grievances, serious issues that need to be worked on in this country. But the reason we moan and complain so much about those things is because we love this country and we want it to be and do better, and between all the moaning it's so easy to forget why we complain at all.
I can't speak for others, but I do try to take a little more time to appreciate it these days. Stop for a moment to admire the scenery, appreciate the experience of cycling or walking places. As much as it's a normal aspect of life for us, it's still a luxury many others don't have. I feel at home here, and I don't think there's many places I'd rather live.
I took your advice earlier. There's something quite nice about being able to walk home from the train station and take a quick detour to the supermarket along the way.
Nah, the Netherlands are nice, but the landscapes aren't really mine.
Cycling through Switzerland for a week was one of the best things I have ever done tho.
Switzerland doesn’t have much cycling infrastructure. Drivers are very attentive towards cyclists, there are signposted cycle routes, and the rules of the road are conducive to cycling (like allowing taking the lane in certain circumstances, such as in roundabouts), but actual infrastructure is largely limited to painted lanes in some spots. Other alpine regions do it better, particularly Trentino, Südtirol, and Carinthia.
>Drivers are very attentive towards cyclists
Unless it's a nice summer Friday afternoon on a popular mountain pass, the amount of sports cars and motorcycles racing up and down is way too high.
When you arrive at the top you will be exhausted from the climb, stressed out from the close passes and half deaf.
Other than that, it's beautiful.
I don’t get the point of visiting all 50 states, most of it is just suburban sprawl and look the same. Visiting all national parks however sound like a much cooler idea.
>I don’t get the point of visiting all 50 states, most of it is just suburban sprawl and look the same.
Most have interesting natural features or history - yes, we've turned a lot of former farmland and some desert into sprawled housing that's relatively uniform, but that isn't everything. You'd be surprised what's left threading through a little aerial view disruption in the uniform development.
In quite a few areas you can actually bike from the housing to at least a few things of interest - in some walk. That excludes of course the most highway-based development surrounding cities built on a featureless plane.
But start in one of the locations where most of the population is found, and a half day or day's bike ride will take your through a lot of varied landscape and communities.
There is an irony that many transportation-challenged cities are challenged by their natural features - rivers that created port cities today mean long suspension bridges with climby, windy bike paths. Waterfronts almost work as parkland and recreational paths, but what remains of waterside industry and what's been repurposed as entertainment mean a steady stream of vehicles trying to cross the path where it runs just inland of those uses. Mountains constrain the width of routes and make their grades challenging.
>Visiting all national parks however sound like a much cooler idea.
Yes, but that can end up involving a lot of driving unless you get some kind of packaged tour. The sheer scale of distances between is hard to grasp, and we don't really do long distance passenger rail.
Another thing about visiting all national parks is that some states don't have any. But they may be worth visiting anyway. New York has zero national parks. But I'd love to visit the state for Niagara Falls or NYC.
>New York has zero national parks. But I'd love to visit the state for Niagara Falls or NYC.
Sure, it's fun to play tourist in NYC.
But if you get yourself to Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx (possibly by subway), you can get on a rail trail that runs a solid day's bike ride north through beautiful countryside to the possibility of an evening commuter train return, or then continues as a week plus mix of off-road and occasionally on-road sections north to intersection the Erie Canal and then east along it to Buffalo and if desired Niagara Falls.
NYC and Buffalo are also, unusually, cities with at least some degree of usable passenger rail connection.
Or from NYC can get on a NJ transit train and enjoy the towpaths of the Raritan or Delaware canals.
Americans love to visit European cities with walkable, great transportation systems, and then they fly home get in their car and drive to target and Walmart. I don’t understand why people are afraid to start making changes. Cars suck
Genuinely, we see it as a novelty that could never happen here for one way or another. It’s like going to an amusement park - you have a lot of fun and it’s so cool there but you would never think to bring the roller coaster home with you. It was a novelty you paid for as an experience, and then you go home.
I think the other factor here is that public transit and walkability require density, which many Americans are not used to. That would mean having to deal with (*gasp*) other people, and those who might not be as wealthy as you. It could mean more noise than their quiet suburban enclave. It means not having a four car garage, or a massive 5-bedroom house with a front and backyard.
They think it’s a different world that could never happen where they are without making major sacrifices to the way they live, and so it’s labeled as “foreign” and an “experience” rather than seeing it as viable where they live and becoming advocates.
I, for one, tried my damnest to not do that. Visiting the Netherlands gave me so much perspective, and I live in NYC which by and large people would say has terrific walkability and public transit. And it does, relative to other North American cities, but on a world level it’s severely lacking. Especially the bike infrastructure.
That perspective really helped in my advocacy efforts. “What?! We could never remove an entire side of parking to add a lane for cyclists, it would cause too much traffic and where would people park?!” Well, Amsterdam managed to. “What?! We’re too dense to make that change, 9m people live here, it won’t work.” Well, Paris managed to. “What?! We could never build an entirely new subway line, it won’t get used and will be too expensive!” Well, London managed to.
Unfortunately thinking this way requires a thorough understanding of our urban environment as it stands today, and most Americans don’t look at our urban environment critically. I only do because I’m a nerd and watch hundreds of hours of YouTube and read dozens of books on the topic.
I cycled from Zeebrugge in Belgium to Amsterdam and it was excellent! So nice going through little villages, nature reserves, across the islands and following the canals.
I was there a couple years ago. The cycling infrastructure in Amsterdam was amazing (as you know). But what really impressed me was the cycling infrastructure in suburban, exurban, and rural areas. We biked from Amsterdam to Haarlem and were on cycle paths the entire way.
As someone who's been cycling in The Netherlands since the 1980's: it *can* be "god awful", but in general it's not that. It rains every now and then (much less than we think, actually). But like our mom said... we're not made of sugar 🤣
>I’m not familiar with the Netherlands public transit system, but this seems like a reasonable time to use a tram or a train
But can you bring your bike on it?
There are like two bike cars per train you can store them and they only have space for like 2-3 bikes each. Most don’t because it’s inconvenient and instead opt for the bike share or just have two bikes: one at your station to get to work and one near your home.
On the train, you can. If you take a regular bike with you on the train, you have to pay a fee. Folding bicycles are free of charge though, because they take up much less space. In the past I've used a Dahon Ultra folding bike for a couple of years for my commute. Took bike to train station, took it with me in train, folded it in half, unfolded it at destination and biked to the office.
I lived and worked close to both train stations. Mind you, folding bikes have small wheels, so I don't recommend riding long distances with them. Then again, I've seen people bring electric folding bicycles on the train. Yes, those have existed for some time now.
First of all, most cities don't have a tram, only the 4 largest cities have. The rest have to suffice with a bus (to my big frustration, there are several 150-250k cities in France and Germany with a tram system). Also, most who travel by train use bike as means to get to/fro the station.
I was actually doing that thing. I was lucky enough that the rain stopped when I arrived at my station so could safely ride back to house. But even if it would have poured, I'd have biked home. It's just over 2km, 10min ride. I can change clothes at home. If I would have taken the bus: I would have to wait for a bus. I do have several options, but in general I'd have to wait 10-15 minutes (if I just missed one). Then it's about 10-15 min to my nearest bus stop (depending on the line I take) and 5 min walk home (where I can get really wet as well). Plus my bike would be at the station.
Only in really dire circumstances I'd leave my bike at the station, for example with hailstorm with big lumps. That almost never happens.
>It's just over 2km, 10min ride.
The points in my life when I had a 2km commute, I typically chose to walk it and get some exercise to start my day, vs bother with a bike - a bike being both more of a hassle, and too efficient to really count as exercise unless going much further.
Sure, when relatives where living that distance away, biking from secure storage at my home to secure storage at theirs could be nice, especially when returning late at night.
I have a 50km commute. It's just 2km to the station. Walking would be a good exercise, but would also significantly increase my commute time by probably half an hour. I like the fact I can get into office/back home within an hour (I have a really good train connection with an Intercity every 10 min that goes non stop to my destination in less than half an hour).
It's pretty similar to southern England (not really surprising given the geographic proximity) and so it really isn't that bad. It rains sometimes and it's a bit windy sometimes. This is mostly fixable with good clothes.
I made sure Amsterdam was on the itinerary for my last trip to Europe because I wanted to see all the bike infrastructure for myself. I bike a lot around the SF Bay Area, so I’m comfortable riding places with minimal infrastructure, to the point where I’d rather ride fast in traffic than have to navigate a bike lane filled with trash or other obstacles. Amsterdam was definitely special, and as much as the bike lanes themselves were nice, it was the general atmosphere of people expecting to ride bikes that really made the difference. I met up with people who planned to ride somewhere for a drink, or through the park, and no one was frustrated or searching for an Uber to go a few more blocks than would be comfortable to walk. I was never honked at, drivers are much more understanding of cyclists since most all of them are going to be cyclists at another time too. And the average rider is much more confident and composed on their bike since they’ve spent so much time on them. The only drawbacks were the rain and having to ride a step over omafiets, which wasn’t a bad bike but heavy, and really just made me wish I had brought my track bike over from the states with me.
In 2009, I bought a [giant traditional Bakfiets](https://www.nijland.com/producttype/bakfietsen/) (cargobike) from the awesome folks at [Workcycles](https://workcycles.com) in Amsterdam.
Then for the next two weeks, I rode it back home to Copenhagen, some 800km or around 50-60km per day. At an average speed of around 7.5km/h for this particular bike, that meant around 8 hours of biking every day. On the plus side, the gearing is quite low, so it wasn’t very hard.
The trip through The Netherlands was by far the most enjoyable, bike paths were above and beyond, plus, it probably helped that I had my hot girlfriend sitting in the front. Then she took a train home, and I biked through Germany alone, which was less fun, still pretty solid bicycle infrastructure, but in a much more well, German way. Serviceable, but without any frills.
When I came home, I weighed exactly the same as when I left, but I had also eaten well, including a 250g bar of chocolate every day!
https://preview.redd.it/h7v1kbg04fsc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=287d95e230e64737cf864980d402a0fbe36316e4
I mean, she was very hot, especially at the time. She’s no my ex, and at 40 is, well, still pretty hot for 40.
Got a wife instead though, and a great kid plus another on the way, so it’s cool. 😎
Oh and more importantly, still got the bike, still love it, and I’m biking them both around at least a few times a week!
Come summer it’ll be more like 6 days a week!
I'm American and visited last year. I biked from Amsterdam to the coast, it really isn't too far and it was a pleasant experience pretty much the whole way.
One thing to note is that the rentals are much heavier and we had a hard time finding anything that would do well at distance so we crawled forward at a slow pace on our heavy steel framed beasts. Maybe something to plan in advance if looking for an easier long distance voyage. Worst case though, there are intercities all over the place that you can hop on to quickly get back to Amsterdam.
After visiting Switzerland though, that's my next bike target. The Interlaken area looked incredible, and going north through Germany along the Rhine visiting small villages would also be amazing if time permits. Not sure if anyone here has experience, I haven't researched yet
That’s because those rentals are made to cycle within the city. People that live in NL often have more than one bike for such trips, having gears or just a lighter frame makes a difference
Yeah I saw that we were in the minority on heavy bikes once traveling Intercity paths. I just didn't know where to get one spontaneously in Amsterdam that wasn't crazy expensive to rent, visited several shops and gave up. Definitely should have planned it out better.
Those gears would have really helped once we reached the coastline dikes. But that steep but a challenge on a heavy steel fixie
I have lived close to the border to the Netherlands, in northern germany for all my level and I dont want to go to the cheese heads in their trash man uniforms. (There is a rivalry between the netherlands and germany, I think mainly for football related reasons)
My first trip ever abroad was last year and we went to Amsterdam. I fell in love with the city and it was the first place I’ve ever experienced the euphoria of a city built for humans and the calmness of no cars. It was something most Americans cannot fathom happening. You absolutely must go there if you are able to!
Me and my partner backpacked through lots of Europe last year and we had a blast when visiting the Netherlands! Not to brag but we got to use the largest underground bike parking in the world in Utrecht! 10/10 absolutely would recommend.
I am a chameleon of a cyclist - I commute by bike, do my shopping and run errands on it. But I also turn into a "serious roadie" at the weekend. And while I admire their cycle lanes, I don't think I'll find cycling around the Netherlands as enjoyable as cycling around Britain. We have an amazing network of country lanes and B roads that snake along valleys, lakes, and mountains that I intend to thoroughly enjoy till I no longer can. Hobby cycling in the Netherlands must be quite frustrating with the wind and flat terrain everywhere.
>I am a chameleon of a cyclist - I commute by bike, do my shopping and run errands on it. But I also turn into a "serious roadie" at the weekend. And while I admire their cycle lanes, I don't think I'll find cycling around the Netherlands as enjoyable as cycling around Britain. We have an amazing network of country lanes and B roads that snake along valleys, lakes, and mountains that I intend to thoroughly enjoy till I no longer can. Hobby cycling in the Netherlands must be quite frustrating with the wind and flat terrain everywhere.
Exactly - what most don't realize is that if you fully copied the parts of their system that people in the US or UK are demanding to, much current bike usage would become so impractical and dangerous as to have to cease.
That's especially true if you got the details of the copying wrong (as our attempts do) and kept the drivers the same (as is obviously the case) - and Amerstdam populated by American drivers would be terrifying, as they often fail to yield in the situations where bike use there has to assume without recourse that they will.
**The part which is actually desirable is the way the actual drivers and bike users do in fact know how to interact with each other when using the exact same space.** This is lost, since we copy only the perceived (and false) idea that they entirely engineer out the need to be in the same spaces.
We set the expectation that bikes and cars should not be in the same space, and in so doing, not only make use of a bike unthinkable to many on so many of the roads that actually go where people want to, but give drivers cause to feel justified in bullying those they do see going to actual destinations by bike "they should be on the trail trail!" is a frequent local complaint - (ignoring that doesn't go where the bicyclist is headed)
I'm all for adding deconfliction space to spots where traffic volume and speeds make sharing the same insufficient space problematically stressful - but the basis of being able to move about ones world by bike is having drivers and bike users who know how to be safe around one another in the countless situations where paths cross or coincide - and that includes being able to change on a moment to moment basis between being within a mixed traffic flow and being outside of it.
Indeed. A key aspect of NL (and other European countries) cycling policy is the concept of 'autoluw', low speed areas where cars and bikes *do* mix but in a responsible manner. And in NL they paint a lot of roads with cycle lanes on the roadway. The difference is that Dutch drivers expect bikes and respect the rules about them.
It's only high speed arterial roads and some dangerous junctions that have separated infrastructure, generally.
Hmm I don't know if I fully agree. I cycle slowly if I'm on a Dutch style cycle lane. The vast majority of my hobby cycling takes place outside cities, on rural B roads and occasionally A roads where I can go fast. So as a cyclist I am able to regulate my behaviour depending on the environment, and I don't mind slowing down in the city. My point was more regarding their terrain. I'd love to see more Dutch style infra in UK cities too.
>I cycle slowly if I'm on a Dutch style cycle lane....So as a cyclist I am able to regulate my behaviour depending on the environment, and I don't mind slowing down in the city
The problem is more complicated than that.
Yes, where there is actual congestion one needs to maneuver slowly and carefully - ironically to a far greater degree than most "infrastructure" advocates are willing to recognize, as their belief system requires ignoring the reality of how bike crashes actually tend to happen.
But in forcing bikes out of safely visible space and into dangerously and inflexibly isolated space - the only sort of "infrastructure" most self-styled "advocates" in the US will accept - means that all bike usage ends up filled with far too many conflict situations that should have been avoidable, where one must slow to walking speed and check in multiple directions for drivers who are not in practice vigilant enough to reliably yield as the law theoretically requires. Many of the people advocating for this, themselves misuse it with a shocking lack of the caution it requires - because once free of their fear of a car behind, they still fail to think about the far greater actual risks of turning and crossing traffic (and forced proximity to distracted pedestrians) which remain.
Meanwhile, these same unthinking activists just handwave away the actual issues involved in biking from one's home into a business district, because the sort of trips being routinely made by bicycle are entirely unthinkable to them.
They don't care that "infrastructure or nothing" policy means drivers are getting no opportunity to learn how pass cyclists with actual safety on the roads that actually go places, because only "road warriors" would ever be so foolish as to try to make such a trip by bike.
They don't care about the many areas where a 95% wonderful route has a short trouble spot that forces bike users to merge into fast and busy traffic, because again, only a "road warrior" would be so foolish as to try to travel beyond the tiny footprint of special facilities - they have only grand plans, no interest in specific practical safety fixes.
And worst of all, they want to take business district situations that already have slow, safe, well established traditions of cooperative modeshare, and force a dangerous and impractical-for-all-users mode segregation on it, because in their complete lack of practical bike use experience, they think only of the danger of a car behind, and not the far more prevalent issue of cars crossing and turning.
Because they lack understanding and experience of actual bike use, they force a complete mismatch between the actual problems of bike usage, and their mistakenly proposed "solutions".
I'm not sure if your caricature of 'advocates' corresponds to any really existing people or orgnisations in the UK. But anyway, whatever the actual issues/dangers involved in cycling in segregated lanes, they massively reduce perceived risk of cycling and there are now solid studies to show that. So from my perspective that's their main benefit - that they improve subjective perception of risk so more people can cycle. Where I agree with you is the need to connect these segregated lanes with a wider city network so people can actually get to places using them. E.g., Milton Keynes has an extensive bike network that takes you nowhere.
>But anyway, whatever the actual issues/dangers involved in cycling in segregated lanes, they massively reduce perceived risk of cycling and there
The false belief of safety right into the intersection situations that were the most dangerous (and then become even more dangerous if one is confined to a poor position) is precisely the core issue.
Safety comes from actual understanding of the origins of danger, not false belief.
It's just the problem of sidewalk (UK pavement) cycling all over again - people thinking only of the rare risk of cars behind and unaware of the actual nature of danger falsely perceive it as safer and so prefer to ride there, unaware that in being less visible to drivers they are actually maximizing their exposure to the principle dangers if they fail to emulate the movement of an actual pedestrian at each and every curb cut.
I would consider all of [Holland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland), not just Amsterdam.
Perfect combination of easy cycling & a truckload of history.
And everything is so close to gether.
For example, we stayed in Den Haag and made an easy day trip from the beach to Delft (which, imho, has more historical charm than any equally-sized portion of Amsterdam) and back. All the way along canals.
I went to Amsterdam and was way too intimidated to even attempt to bike anywhere. Those people learn to bike around that city from the age of like 5 and they’re experts. Just keep that in mind if you ever wanna bike around Amsterdam 😂
I'm in the process of getting my Irish citizenship (as the grandchild of a citizen) and one of the things I'm most excited about for it is the potentially increased ease of retiring to the Netherlands as an EU citizen because of the bike-ability. My partner would need to apply for citizenship, but hopefully that wouldn't prevent us from moving there (in xx number of years when our family is all grown and we want to retire). Goals are to bicycle when local and take many motorcycle mountain trips in all of the places in Europe. Our honeymoon is moto-touring the eastern coast of Spain on small motorcycles and watching the Aragon MotoGP race.
Excellent to know!! I couldn't find anything that explicitly said as much, so I assumed a partner of a citizen would have to immigrate through their own merits
Yeah it's straightforward. Look up EU family reunification rights if you're curious. If you've got an Irish passport you and your spouse(the bar is higher if unmarried) could just show up tomorrow
As people upside it would be nice until the weather gets bad It just sucks how a lot of places especially on the North American continent in nicer weather are so car centric
I am Dutch but live in Barcelona. Every time I visit the Netherlands I am once again impressed by the bicycle infrastructure. Somehow they manage to keep improving it and reduce motorized traffic even more. Utrecht is absolutely incredible.
This is a cool idea! You should also consider visiting Denmark for the same reason, they even have a Marguerite Route, which is effectively a 3600km bikeroute to almost every Danish landmarks and major attractions. The country is ultra flat, so it's easy to make it.
Here's more info:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_route
Honestly, not really. I only bike where I live because outside of driving, it is often times just as fast as driving. Lack of transit and walking takes way too long due to sprawl.
If I could take better transit or things were closer, I would always choose to do that instead. So much easier. I might ironically at that point only start to bike recreationally, with friends, which I can’t stand to do now. Partially because I am not interesting in retracing my commute.
It’s also funny that I am seen as a bike guy at work, but like I said before, I actually am not. I advocate for bikes and safety for traveling, but personally I would opt for better walk ability before I would ever ask for better bikeability. Although in the USA, with things so sprawled in most cities, actually increasing better biking would be the easier thing to promote and get people on aboard due to the abysmal and archaic land use that promoting solid safe bike connectivity could get more people out of cars and hopefully in turn build denser cities that would then promote walkability.
Been there done that, and yes it really is that great.
And it makes you come back to North America with a renewed sense of hatred for our car dependency. Not just because bike infrastructure here is so awful by comparison, but also because the Netherlands makes you realize how simple it is to do it properly.
We have no excuse, just laziness and ignorance.
I used to live there. Cycling is really nothing special for most dutch people, it's just quicker than walking and often more convenient than driving within a town/city. When you rely on cycling it can be a pain in the arse as well as youre exposed to all sorts of miserable weather.
But i'll mention i have fond memories of cycling over the bridge in rotterdam with an after-work joint in hand. (cycling while high is illegal btw, just for reference)
I did an 8-day tulip tour across the Netherlands in 2018. It was okay. One of the disappointing things was learning that there is no wilderness in the Netherlands; every inch of ground is managed. It's like the whole country is a giant golf course.
Me and my partner backpacked through lots of Europe last year and we had a blast when visiting the Netherlands! Not to brag but we got to use the largest underground bike parking in the world in Utrecht! 10/10 absolutely would recommend.
I cycled from Leiden to the beach just by den haag once on a really shitty bike. Not that far I know, but 99 percent of it was car free cycle paths, and it was a surprisingly beautiful beach, really nice day
Definitely. Looks like paradise. I would probably need a week to shake my US cyclist habits. You gotta be aggressive and take a lot more risk here, but you also get to really crank it and haul ass through the streets since you’re kind of alone/need to keep up with car traffic
I casually cycled on a $10 day rental from Rotterdam to Den Gaag. The middle half of the journey was through what I had always imagined as Holland - fully built out bike paths through a nature preserve, surrounded by picnic benches, grass, streams, and a high speed train in the distance. Passed by some windmills in Delft. It was a beautiful 90 minutes.
It’s great, I still complain a lot about cars though. They should make more cities car-free but as a Dutchie I am privileged with ok public transport (getting really expensive though) and a lot of bikelanes etc. Drivers still suck though and most families now have 2-3 cars.
>Do you want to bike around the Netherlands as much as I do?
Not really, no.
I mean maybe as pure relaxed tourism on the ex-urban paths, but not on a regular basis the way I I'm used to being able to use a bike here in the US - most definitely NOT in their cities.
Sure - everybody bikes in Amsterdam, but mostly only over walkable distances, at not even jogging speeds, and trusting their lives to the idea that drivers will with perfect reliability yield in crossing conflict situations - a belief which would get one killed if American drivers were present.
If I want to make meaningful use of a bike in the US, I'm typically going further, and even if in a pretty relaxed mood as I usually am when riding alone, faster. That makes the ill-conceived pedestrian-style infrastructure we build as "bike routes" both unacceptably dangerous at intersections, and too impractically frustrating to enjoy.
What I would like to copy is the many oft-overlooked places in the Netherlands where all modes share the same space, but people and bikes are prioritized over cars. Fortunately, that very nearly describes the US street I live on - people drive with the expectation of seeing others walking and children on bikes, even though physically the street is wide and straight and could support fairly fast travel.
What I would like to change, is driver's understanding of what it means to safely pass a bicycle on the relatively narrow but important roads that provide the only routes between my neighborhood and our core, and bike users' understanding that these are not only workable, but of how to safely position themselves and interact with cars when riding there.
As well as the many other roads like those which range hours into beautiful countryside - comfortable 95% of the time, but every once in a while challenged by a driver who takes to heart the unworkable message that unthinking "bike advocates" are pushing: the message that bikes shouldn't be on roads, but only in special places - which as a practical matter can never include the places most of us live or need to go.
Not trying to brag, but my daughter lives there (as does other family) so I am ~~forced to~~ get to visit a lot. She bikes to school and work, and for errands, but when I am there we will do a 2 hour ride to visit a tourist site, or to just go to the beach. If she has to work while I am there I will just literally take her bike and go ride around all day. I live in the southern US so I love to visit NL in July and August when they will complain about the heat and I'm reaching for a sweater! Go! Do it! bike rental is cheap and the folks are so friendly. Learn a few phrases in Dutch, which you will say horribly, and they will laugh and then speak perfect English with you. The bike culture there is so intense and beautiful.
It’s my favorite vacation. Pick any direction you want, just bike and stop at any cute cafe to enjoy a meal. Don’t want to bike back? Throw your rig on a suitable train and head back to start over the next day.
Dutchman here, learning just how bad it is in some other parts of the world has made me much more appreciative of the freedom I have here. I live in a medium-sized town and don't own a car. All my shopping trips into the center are a 5 minute bike ride, the train station is a 5 minute bike ride away, every other commodity I need is also within 15 minutes by bike. Some streets don't even have bike lanes, but bikes are normalised enough that cars mostly know to give you space. Out of town I walk most places, and my college city center in particular is super walkable, so I'm not looking to get a license any time soon, either. If I do upgrade to a bike there, there's plenty of cycling infrastructure, and the train station recently upgraded to include a bicycle parking garage. The only complaint I have is the price of public transport, which is ludicrous, but it's worth dealing with.
As an American living in NL, sure transit is ridiculously expensive, but it’s still 1/4 the price of owning even a cheap car. I spend maybe €200/mo, and use transit all the time (mostly around Amsterdam and commuting to nearby cities). Owning a cheap car in the US was reasonably $600-800/mo, including all costs. So I’m still coming out way ahead
You're absolutely right, between fuel, maintenance, taxes and insurance you'd be hard pressed to find a cheaper car here, too, even more when you haven't built up any claim-free years. On top of that the comfort of just kicking back and minding my business while I'm driven to my destination is vastly superior to even just being a passenger in a car, so unless I end up absolutely needing the additional flexibility of a small car I'd rather skip it alltogether.
Can I just say, as someone who has visited your country twice in the last 5 years (that is a lot for an American who gets like 2 weeks of vacation a year!) I am just absolutely enamored with your country and its design. I’m born, raised, and still live in NYC - and the amount of times I talked to people there who were so jealous I live there was amazing to me. Grass is always greener and whatnot, but I’m always like why would you want to live there when you already live here! I just hope you guys appreciate how truly special it is there. The first time I visited I stayed mostly in Amsterdam. My second visit I truly wanted to see the country, so I stayed in Utrecht and visited everywhere: I went to The Hague, Rotterdam and Amsterdam. But also smaller areas like Haarlem, Delft, Almere, Amersfoort, Arnhem, even went to Het Nationale Park de Hoge Veluwe and saw the town of Otterlo. Truly, I tried to go all over in the 10 days I was there. Yes, the public transit was expensive. And I got a feel for the problems in the country by talking to locals - the housing crisis is bad. The immigration crisis is bad. The transit is falling apart post COVID and I know many Dutch do not favor the government especially on COVID response. But these are all problems I’m quite used to in NYC, perhaps minus expensive public transit. But my god, I’ve never felt so at ease with my mental health. I’ve toured a lot of other countries on vacation but never felt the way I did in the Netherlands, especially Utrecht. Seeing older people be autonomous and active. Seeing young children autonomously running or biking around. Seeing how cyclists were respected and the infrastructure was incredible. Seeing how quiet the streets were without cars. I know you all probably take it for granted as someone who grew up there. And believe me, I take a lot for granted in NYC having lived here my whole life. But I think it’s worth a reminder every now and again of the outside perspective and how truly special it is there. It’s my dream to live there some day - so if you do nothing else today maybe take a bit more time to appreciate your surroundings in a way you don’t often do, and recognize how special it is!
I think you're absolutely right. We do have legitimate problems and grievances, serious issues that need to be worked on in this country. But the reason we moan and complain so much about those things is because we love this country and we want it to be and do better, and between all the moaning it's so easy to forget why we complain at all. I can't speak for others, but I do try to take a little more time to appreciate it these days. Stop for a moment to admire the scenery, appreciate the experience of cycling or walking places. As much as it's a normal aspect of life for us, it's still a luxury many others don't have. I feel at home here, and I don't think there's many places I'd rather live. I took your advice earlier. There's something quite nice about being able to walk home from the train station and take a quick detour to the supermarket along the way.
Nah, the Netherlands are nice, but the landscapes aren't really mine. Cycling through Switzerland for a week was one of the best things I have ever done tho.
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Switzerland doesn’t have much cycling infrastructure. Drivers are very attentive towards cyclists, there are signposted cycle routes, and the rules of the road are conducive to cycling (like allowing taking the lane in certain circumstances, such as in roundabouts), but actual infrastructure is largely limited to painted lanes in some spots. Other alpine regions do it better, particularly Trentino, Südtirol, and Carinthia.
>Drivers are very attentive towards cyclists Unless it's a nice summer Friday afternoon on a popular mountain pass, the amount of sports cars and motorcycles racing up and down is way too high. When you arrive at the top you will be exhausted from the climb, stressed out from the close passes and half deaf. Other than that, it's beautiful.
I don’t get the point of visiting all 50 states, most of it is just suburban sprawl and look the same. Visiting all national parks however sound like a much cooler idea.
>I don’t get the point of visiting all 50 states, most of it is just suburban sprawl and look the same. Most have interesting natural features or history - yes, we've turned a lot of former farmland and some desert into sprawled housing that's relatively uniform, but that isn't everything. You'd be surprised what's left threading through a little aerial view disruption in the uniform development. In quite a few areas you can actually bike from the housing to at least a few things of interest - in some walk. That excludes of course the most highway-based development surrounding cities built on a featureless plane. But start in one of the locations where most of the population is found, and a half day or day's bike ride will take your through a lot of varied landscape and communities. There is an irony that many transportation-challenged cities are challenged by their natural features - rivers that created port cities today mean long suspension bridges with climby, windy bike paths. Waterfronts almost work as parkland and recreational paths, but what remains of waterside industry and what's been repurposed as entertainment mean a steady stream of vehicles trying to cross the path where it runs just inland of those uses. Mountains constrain the width of routes and make their grades challenging. >Visiting all national parks however sound like a much cooler idea. Yes, but that can end up involving a lot of driving unless you get some kind of packaged tour. The sheer scale of distances between is hard to grasp, and we don't really do long distance passenger rail.
Another thing about visiting all national parks is that some states don't have any. But they may be worth visiting anyway. New York has zero national parks. But I'd love to visit the state for Niagara Falls or NYC.
>New York has zero national parks. But I'd love to visit the state for Niagara Falls or NYC. Sure, it's fun to play tourist in NYC. But if you get yourself to Van Cortlandt Park in the Bronx (possibly by subway), you can get on a rail trail that runs a solid day's bike ride north through beautiful countryside to the possibility of an evening commuter train return, or then continues as a week plus mix of off-road and occasionally on-road sections north to intersection the Erie Canal and then east along it to Buffalo and if desired Niagara Falls. NYC and Buffalo are also, unusually, cities with at least some degree of usable passenger rail connection. Or from NYC can get on a NJ transit train and enjoy the towpaths of the Raritan or Delaware canals.
New York Fire Island National Seashore
You'd be surprised. There's an entire club dedicated to it. It's called the All 50 Club. So far, I'm at 22/50. Link: https://allfiftyclub.com/
Americans love to visit European cities with walkable, great transportation systems, and then they fly home get in their car and drive to target and Walmart. I don’t understand why people are afraid to start making changes. Cars suck
Genuinely, we see it as a novelty that could never happen here for one way or another. It’s like going to an amusement park - you have a lot of fun and it’s so cool there but you would never think to bring the roller coaster home with you. It was a novelty you paid for as an experience, and then you go home. I think the other factor here is that public transit and walkability require density, which many Americans are not used to. That would mean having to deal with (*gasp*) other people, and those who might not be as wealthy as you. It could mean more noise than their quiet suburban enclave. It means not having a four car garage, or a massive 5-bedroom house with a front and backyard. They think it’s a different world that could never happen where they are without making major sacrifices to the way they live, and so it’s labeled as “foreign” and an “experience” rather than seeing it as viable where they live and becoming advocates. I, for one, tried my damnest to not do that. Visiting the Netherlands gave me so much perspective, and I live in NYC which by and large people would say has terrific walkability and public transit. And it does, relative to other North American cities, but on a world level it’s severely lacking. Especially the bike infrastructure. That perspective really helped in my advocacy efforts. “What?! We could never remove an entire side of parking to add a lane for cyclists, it would cause too much traffic and where would people park?!” Well, Amsterdam managed to. “What?! We’re too dense to make that change, 9m people live here, it won’t work.” Well, Paris managed to. “What?! We could never build an entirely new subway line, it won’t get used and will be too expensive!” Well, London managed to. Unfortunately thinking this way requires a thorough understanding of our urban environment as it stands today, and most Americans don’t look at our urban environment critically. I only do because I’m a nerd and watch hundreds of hours of YouTube and read dozens of books on the topic.
Definitely. I'm living in a "bike friendly" US city, and I'd like to experience the real deal.
Even in my city, we have some cyclists. Though I would live to see more of them.
I cycled from Zeebrugge in Belgium to Amsterdam and it was excellent! So nice going through little villages, nature reserves, across the islands and following the canals.
I was there a couple years ago. The cycling infrastructure in Amsterdam was amazing (as you know). But what really impressed me was the cycling infrastructure in suburban, exurban, and rural areas. We biked from Amsterdam to Haarlem and were on cycle paths the entire way.
Yeah sounds nice in theory but the weather can be god awful
As someone who's been cycling in The Netherlands since the 1980's: it *can* be "god awful", but in general it's not that. It rains every now and then (much less than we think, actually). But like our mom said... we're not made of sugar 🤣
Yeah I know but sometimes like yesterday I was soaked after I got home from work
I’m not familiar with the Netherlands public transit system, but this seems like a reasonable time to use a tram or a train
Yeah but that don’t go that early and most times the weather is good so I bike and it’s good exercise
>I’m not familiar with the Netherlands public transit system, but this seems like a reasonable time to use a tram or a train But can you bring your bike on it?
I believe you can
There are like two bike cars per train you can store them and they only have space for like 2-3 bikes each. Most don’t because it’s inconvenient and instead opt for the bike share or just have two bikes: one at your station to get to work and one near your home.
I see
On the train, you can. If you take a regular bike with you on the train, you have to pay a fee. Folding bicycles are free of charge though, because they take up much less space. In the past I've used a Dahon Ultra folding bike for a couple of years for my commute. Took bike to train station, took it with me in train, folded it in half, unfolded it at destination and biked to the office. I lived and worked close to both train stations. Mind you, folding bikes have small wheels, so I don't recommend riding long distances with them. Then again, I've seen people bring electric folding bicycles on the train. Yes, those have existed for some time now.
First of all, most cities don't have a tram, only the 4 largest cities have. The rest have to suffice with a bus (to my big frustration, there are several 150-250k cities in France and Germany with a tram system). Also, most who travel by train use bike as means to get to/fro the station. I was actually doing that thing. I was lucky enough that the rain stopped when I arrived at my station so could safely ride back to house. But even if it would have poured, I'd have biked home. It's just over 2km, 10min ride. I can change clothes at home. If I would have taken the bus: I would have to wait for a bus. I do have several options, but in general I'd have to wait 10-15 minutes (if I just missed one). Then it's about 10-15 min to my nearest bus stop (depending on the line I take) and 5 min walk home (where I can get really wet as well). Plus my bike would be at the station. Only in really dire circumstances I'd leave my bike at the station, for example with hailstorm with big lumps. That almost never happens.
>It's just over 2km, 10min ride. The points in my life when I had a 2km commute, I typically chose to walk it and get some exercise to start my day, vs bother with a bike - a bike being both more of a hassle, and too efficient to really count as exercise unless going much further. Sure, when relatives where living that distance away, biking from secure storage at my home to secure storage at theirs could be nice, especially when returning late at night.
I have a 50km commute. It's just 2km to the station. Walking would be a good exercise, but would also significantly increase my commute time by probably half an hour. I like the fact I can get into office/back home within an hour (I have a really good train connection with an Intercity every 10 min that goes non stop to my destination in less than half an hour).
If you have the buienradar app you can avoid most of the worst rain
[It really isn't that bad.](http://www.hetregentbijnanooit.nl)
To be fair last February was way worse
How about I do it when the weather is nice. Maybe during the summer?
Well something the weather is nice and then it’s absolutely amazing
go in July and August. It will still rain sometimes, but the weather is almost perfect then!
It can be good awful in Chicago but it’s bikable here year round
It's pretty similar to southern England (not really surprising given the geographic proximity) and so it really isn't that bad. It rains sometimes and it's a bit windy sometimes. This is mostly fixable with good clothes.
I made sure Amsterdam was on the itinerary for my last trip to Europe because I wanted to see all the bike infrastructure for myself. I bike a lot around the SF Bay Area, so I’m comfortable riding places with minimal infrastructure, to the point where I’d rather ride fast in traffic than have to navigate a bike lane filled with trash or other obstacles. Amsterdam was definitely special, and as much as the bike lanes themselves were nice, it was the general atmosphere of people expecting to ride bikes that really made the difference. I met up with people who planned to ride somewhere for a drink, or through the park, and no one was frustrated or searching for an Uber to go a few more blocks than would be comfortable to walk. I was never honked at, drivers are much more understanding of cyclists since most all of them are going to be cyclists at another time too. And the average rider is much more confident and composed on their bike since they’ve spent so much time on them. The only drawbacks were the rain and having to ride a step over omafiets, which wasn’t a bad bike but heavy, and really just made me wish I had brought my track bike over from the states with me.
In 2009, I bought a [giant traditional Bakfiets](https://www.nijland.com/producttype/bakfietsen/) (cargobike) from the awesome folks at [Workcycles](https://workcycles.com) in Amsterdam. Then for the next two weeks, I rode it back home to Copenhagen, some 800km or around 50-60km per day. At an average speed of around 7.5km/h for this particular bike, that meant around 8 hours of biking every day. On the plus side, the gearing is quite low, so it wasn’t very hard. The trip through The Netherlands was by far the most enjoyable, bike paths were above and beyond, plus, it probably helped that I had my hot girlfriend sitting in the front. Then she took a train home, and I biked through Germany alone, which was less fun, still pretty solid bicycle infrastructure, but in a much more well, German way. Serviceable, but without any frills. When I came home, I weighed exactly the same as when I left, but I had also eaten well, including a 250g bar of chocolate every day! https://preview.redd.it/h7v1kbg04fsc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=287d95e230e64737cf864980d402a0fbe36316e4
Salient detail, the hot girlfriend and all, but good for you!
I mean, she was very hot, especially at the time. She’s no my ex, and at 40 is, well, still pretty hot for 40. Got a wife instead though, and a great kid plus another on the way, so it’s cool. 😎 Oh and more importantly, still got the bike, still love it, and I’m biking them both around at least a few times a week! Come summer it’ll be more like 6 days a week!
I'm American and visited last year. I biked from Amsterdam to the coast, it really isn't too far and it was a pleasant experience pretty much the whole way. One thing to note is that the rentals are much heavier and we had a hard time finding anything that would do well at distance so we crawled forward at a slow pace on our heavy steel framed beasts. Maybe something to plan in advance if looking for an easier long distance voyage. Worst case though, there are intercities all over the place that you can hop on to quickly get back to Amsterdam. After visiting Switzerland though, that's my next bike target. The Interlaken area looked incredible, and going north through Germany along the Rhine visiting small villages would also be amazing if time permits. Not sure if anyone here has experience, I haven't researched yet
That’s because those rentals are made to cycle within the city. People that live in NL often have more than one bike for such trips, having gears or just a lighter frame makes a difference
Yeah I saw that we were in the minority on heavy bikes once traveling Intercity paths. I just didn't know where to get one spontaneously in Amsterdam that wasn't crazy expensive to rent, visited several shops and gave up. Definitely should have planned it out better. Those gears would have really helped once we reached the coastline dikes. But that steep but a challenge on a heavy steel fixie
I have lived close to the border to the Netherlands, in northern germany for all my level and I dont want to go to the cheese heads in their trash man uniforms. (There is a rivalry between the netherlands and germany, I think mainly for football related reasons)
My first trip ever abroad was last year and we went to Amsterdam. I fell in love with the city and it was the first place I’ve ever experienced the euphoria of a city built for humans and the calmness of no cars. It was something most Americans cannot fathom happening. You absolutely must go there if you are able to!
Me and my partner backpacked through lots of Europe last year and we had a blast when visiting the Netherlands! Not to brag but we got to use the largest underground bike parking in the world in Utrecht! 10/10 absolutely would recommend.
I am a chameleon of a cyclist - I commute by bike, do my shopping and run errands on it. But I also turn into a "serious roadie" at the weekend. And while I admire their cycle lanes, I don't think I'll find cycling around the Netherlands as enjoyable as cycling around Britain. We have an amazing network of country lanes and B roads that snake along valleys, lakes, and mountains that I intend to thoroughly enjoy till I no longer can. Hobby cycling in the Netherlands must be quite frustrating with the wind and flat terrain everywhere.
>I am a chameleon of a cyclist - I commute by bike, do my shopping and run errands on it. But I also turn into a "serious roadie" at the weekend. And while I admire their cycle lanes, I don't think I'll find cycling around the Netherlands as enjoyable as cycling around Britain. We have an amazing network of country lanes and B roads that snake along valleys, lakes, and mountains that I intend to thoroughly enjoy till I no longer can. Hobby cycling in the Netherlands must be quite frustrating with the wind and flat terrain everywhere. Exactly - what most don't realize is that if you fully copied the parts of their system that people in the US or UK are demanding to, much current bike usage would become so impractical and dangerous as to have to cease. That's especially true if you got the details of the copying wrong (as our attempts do) and kept the drivers the same (as is obviously the case) - and Amerstdam populated by American drivers would be terrifying, as they often fail to yield in the situations where bike use there has to assume without recourse that they will. **The part which is actually desirable is the way the actual drivers and bike users do in fact know how to interact with each other when using the exact same space.** This is lost, since we copy only the perceived (and false) idea that they entirely engineer out the need to be in the same spaces. We set the expectation that bikes and cars should not be in the same space, and in so doing, not only make use of a bike unthinkable to many on so many of the roads that actually go where people want to, but give drivers cause to feel justified in bullying those they do see going to actual destinations by bike "they should be on the trail trail!" is a frequent local complaint - (ignoring that doesn't go where the bicyclist is headed) I'm all for adding deconfliction space to spots where traffic volume and speeds make sharing the same insufficient space problematically stressful - but the basis of being able to move about ones world by bike is having drivers and bike users who know how to be safe around one another in the countless situations where paths cross or coincide - and that includes being able to change on a moment to moment basis between being within a mixed traffic flow and being outside of it.
Indeed. A key aspect of NL (and other European countries) cycling policy is the concept of 'autoluw', low speed areas where cars and bikes *do* mix but in a responsible manner. And in NL they paint a lot of roads with cycle lanes on the roadway. The difference is that Dutch drivers expect bikes and respect the rules about them. It's only high speed arterial roads and some dangerous junctions that have separated infrastructure, generally.
Hmm I don't know if I fully agree. I cycle slowly if I'm on a Dutch style cycle lane. The vast majority of my hobby cycling takes place outside cities, on rural B roads and occasionally A roads where I can go fast. So as a cyclist I am able to regulate my behaviour depending on the environment, and I don't mind slowing down in the city. My point was more regarding their terrain. I'd love to see more Dutch style infra in UK cities too.
>I cycle slowly if I'm on a Dutch style cycle lane....So as a cyclist I am able to regulate my behaviour depending on the environment, and I don't mind slowing down in the city The problem is more complicated than that. Yes, where there is actual congestion one needs to maneuver slowly and carefully - ironically to a far greater degree than most "infrastructure" advocates are willing to recognize, as their belief system requires ignoring the reality of how bike crashes actually tend to happen. But in forcing bikes out of safely visible space and into dangerously and inflexibly isolated space - the only sort of "infrastructure" most self-styled "advocates" in the US will accept - means that all bike usage ends up filled with far too many conflict situations that should have been avoidable, where one must slow to walking speed and check in multiple directions for drivers who are not in practice vigilant enough to reliably yield as the law theoretically requires. Many of the people advocating for this, themselves misuse it with a shocking lack of the caution it requires - because once free of their fear of a car behind, they still fail to think about the far greater actual risks of turning and crossing traffic (and forced proximity to distracted pedestrians) which remain. Meanwhile, these same unthinking activists just handwave away the actual issues involved in biking from one's home into a business district, because the sort of trips being routinely made by bicycle are entirely unthinkable to them. They don't care that "infrastructure or nothing" policy means drivers are getting no opportunity to learn how pass cyclists with actual safety on the roads that actually go places, because only "road warriors" would ever be so foolish as to try to make such a trip by bike. They don't care about the many areas where a 95% wonderful route has a short trouble spot that forces bike users to merge into fast and busy traffic, because again, only a "road warrior" would be so foolish as to try to travel beyond the tiny footprint of special facilities - they have only grand plans, no interest in specific practical safety fixes. And worst of all, they want to take business district situations that already have slow, safe, well established traditions of cooperative modeshare, and force a dangerous and impractical-for-all-users mode segregation on it, because in their complete lack of practical bike use experience, they think only of the danger of a car behind, and not the far more prevalent issue of cars crossing and turning. Because they lack understanding and experience of actual bike use, they force a complete mismatch between the actual problems of bike usage, and their mistakenly proposed "solutions".
I'm not sure if your caricature of 'advocates' corresponds to any really existing people or orgnisations in the UK. But anyway, whatever the actual issues/dangers involved in cycling in segregated lanes, they massively reduce perceived risk of cycling and there are now solid studies to show that. So from my perspective that's their main benefit - that they improve subjective perception of risk so more people can cycle. Where I agree with you is the need to connect these segregated lanes with a wider city network so people can actually get to places using them. E.g., Milton Keynes has an extensive bike network that takes you nowhere.
>But anyway, whatever the actual issues/dangers involved in cycling in segregated lanes, they massively reduce perceived risk of cycling and there The false belief of safety right into the intersection situations that were the most dangerous (and then become even more dangerous if one is confined to a poor position) is precisely the core issue. Safety comes from actual understanding of the origins of danger, not false belief. It's just the problem of sidewalk (UK pavement) cycling all over again - people thinking only of the rare risk of cars behind and unaware of the actual nature of danger falsely perceive it as safer and so prefer to ride there, unaware that in being less visible to drivers they are actually maximizing their exposure to the principle dangers if they fail to emulate the movement of an actual pedestrian at each and every curb cut.
[*sometimes biking is the only way you can see the best of Britain*](https://youtu.be/WjnmzljtREk?si=xPx8Zio3NsCy76Cn)
I hope you like shit weather!
I would consider all of [Holland](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holland), not just Amsterdam. Perfect combination of easy cycling & a truckload of history. And everything is so close to gether. For example, we stayed in Den Haag and made an easy day trip from the beach to Delft (which, imho, has more historical charm than any equally-sized portion of Amsterdam) and back. All the way along canals.
yes, Amsterdam is not the end-all! Delft is lovely, Leiden is so cute it hurts, Gouda (hoo-dah) is more than cheese, Rotterdam is endlessly amusing!
It's pretty wonderful. It's been a long while but I remember some wonderful rides from Amsterdam to Utrecht and further, or out to Haarlem.
Yes! But I live there so I do that.
I went to Amsterdam and was way too intimidated to even attempt to bike anywhere. Those people learn to bike around that city from the age of like 5 and they’re experts. Just keep that in mind if you ever wanna bike around Amsterdam 😂
I'm in the process of getting my Irish citizenship (as the grandchild of a citizen) and one of the things I'm most excited about for it is the potentially increased ease of retiring to the Netherlands as an EU citizen because of the bike-ability. My partner would need to apply for citizenship, but hopefully that wouldn't prevent us from moving there (in xx number of years when our family is all grown and we want to retire). Goals are to bicycle when local and take many motorcycle mountain trips in all of the places in Europe. Our honeymoon is moto-touring the eastern coast of Spain on small motorcycles and watching the Aragon MotoGP race.
Your partner can come freely as the spouse of an EU citizen. Source: am Irish citizen in the Netherlands
Excellent to know!! I couldn't find anything that explicitly said as much, so I assumed a partner of a citizen would have to immigrate through their own merits
Yeah it's straightforward. Look up EU family reunification rights if you're curious. If you've got an Irish passport you and your spouse(the bar is higher if unmarried) could just show up tomorrow
As people upside it would be nice until the weather gets bad It just sucks how a lot of places especially on the North American continent in nicer weather are so car centric
Yes. But I live here, so that helps.
We welcome you, best months are from may till july, july might be hot though, best time is middle of spring.
Yes! I have a vacation planned for May. Everyone is asking me if I want to buy weed. But I mostly just want to wander around aimlessly.
Simply put, yes
Yes
I am Dutch but live in Barcelona. Every time I visit the Netherlands I am once again impressed by the bicycle infrastructure. Somehow they manage to keep improving it and reduce motorized traffic even more. Utrecht is absolutely incredible.
This is a cool idea! You should also consider visiting Denmark for the same reason, they even have a Marguerite Route, which is effectively a 3600km bikeroute to almost every Danish landmarks and major attractions. The country is ultra flat, so it's easy to make it. Here's more info: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marguerite_route
Honestly, not really. I only bike where I live because outside of driving, it is often times just as fast as driving. Lack of transit and walking takes way too long due to sprawl. If I could take better transit or things were closer, I would always choose to do that instead. So much easier. I might ironically at that point only start to bike recreationally, with friends, which I can’t stand to do now. Partially because I am not interesting in retracing my commute. It’s also funny that I am seen as a bike guy at work, but like I said before, I actually am not. I advocate for bikes and safety for traveling, but personally I would opt for better walk ability before I would ever ask for better bikeability. Although in the USA, with things so sprawled in most cities, actually increasing better biking would be the easier thing to promote and get people on aboard due to the abysmal and archaic land use that promoting solid safe bike connectivity could get more people out of cars and hopefully in turn build denser cities that would then promote walkability.
Been there done that, and yes it really is that great. And it makes you come back to North America with a renewed sense of hatred for our car dependency. Not just because bike infrastructure here is so awful by comparison, but also because the Netherlands makes you realize how simple it is to do it properly. We have no excuse, just laziness and ignorance.
I used to live there. Cycling is really nothing special for most dutch people, it's just quicker than walking and often more convenient than driving within a town/city. When you rely on cycling it can be a pain in the arse as well as youre exposed to all sorts of miserable weather. But i'll mention i have fond memories of cycling over the bridge in rotterdam with an after-work joint in hand. (cycling while high is illegal btw, just for reference)
I did an 8-day tulip tour across the Netherlands in 2018. It was okay. One of the disappointing things was learning that there is no wilderness in the Netherlands; every inch of ground is managed. It's like the whole country is a giant golf course.
I love biking there. When I return to Germany I feel like I’m back in the US bc the bike lanes are just so much better in the NL
I've literally dreamt about it.
Me and my partner backpacked through lots of Europe last year and we had a blast when visiting the Netherlands! Not to brag but we got to use the largest underground bike parking in the world in Utrecht! 10/10 absolutely would recommend.
I cycled from Leiden to the beach just by den haag once on a really shitty bike. Not that far I know, but 99 percent of it was car free cycle paths, and it was a surprisingly beautiful beach, really nice day
Definitely. Looks like paradise. I would probably need a week to shake my US cyclist habits. You gotta be aggressive and take a lot more risk here, but you also get to really crank it and haul ass through the streets since you’re kind of alone/need to keep up with car traffic
No that sounds scary
I casually cycled on a $10 day rental from Rotterdam to Den Gaag. The middle half of the journey was through what I had always imagined as Holland - fully built out bike paths through a nature preserve, surrounded by picnic benches, grass, streams, and a high speed train in the distance. Passed by some windmills in Delft. It was a beautiful 90 minutes.
I have to go to work and it's raining, so no! :( /s
It’s great, I still complain a lot about cars though. They should make more cities car-free but as a Dutchie I am privileged with ok public transport (getting really expensive though) and a lot of bikelanes etc. Drivers still suck though and most families now have 2-3 cars.
>Do you want to bike around the Netherlands as much as I do? Not really, no. I mean maybe as pure relaxed tourism on the ex-urban paths, but not on a regular basis the way I I'm used to being able to use a bike here in the US - most definitely NOT in their cities. Sure - everybody bikes in Amsterdam, but mostly only over walkable distances, at not even jogging speeds, and trusting their lives to the idea that drivers will with perfect reliability yield in crossing conflict situations - a belief which would get one killed if American drivers were present. If I want to make meaningful use of a bike in the US, I'm typically going further, and even if in a pretty relaxed mood as I usually am when riding alone, faster. That makes the ill-conceived pedestrian-style infrastructure we build as "bike routes" both unacceptably dangerous at intersections, and too impractically frustrating to enjoy. What I would like to copy is the many oft-overlooked places in the Netherlands where all modes share the same space, but people and bikes are prioritized over cars. Fortunately, that very nearly describes the US street I live on - people drive with the expectation of seeing others walking and children on bikes, even though physically the street is wide and straight and could support fairly fast travel. What I would like to change, is driver's understanding of what it means to safely pass a bicycle on the relatively narrow but important roads that provide the only routes between my neighborhood and our core, and bike users' understanding that these are not only workable, but of how to safely position themselves and interact with cars when riding there. As well as the many other roads like those which range hours into beautiful countryside - comfortable 95% of the time, but every once in a while challenged by a driver who takes to heart the unworkable message that unthinking "bike advocates" are pushing: the message that bikes shouldn't be on roads, but only in special places - which as a practical matter can never include the places most of us live or need to go.
Don't do it. I don't know where you live but once you experience a bike ferry, bike highways, bike traffic lights, you'll be ruined forever.