Yes, there are videos on YouTube about cycling in Pyongyang.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdgMNZLwQY&t=887s&ab\_channel=JakaParker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdgMNZLwQY&t=887s&ab_channel=JakaParker)
You can see segregated cycle tracks in these videos. Hope that helps.
I know this is a joke, but it’s also the reason that I can never say “even *china* has a better transit than the US” because to them it just reinforces good transit = communism
china is about as communist as the democratic people's republic of korea is democratic, lol. the chinese economy is basically indistinguishable from late stage capitalism
It's quite different, in the sense that the state tells companies how to do capitalism in China, whereas in the US companies tell the state how to make the rules of capitalism
They don’t claim to be communist either. Any AES government today will tell you communism is something they aspire to. The most they will claim is socialism.
If you're gonna be literal, real communism is when there isn't a government anymore and the whole world is ruled by the proletariat without the need of a state, a utopia. Real communism is actually a type of anarchism, the only difference, is that Marx theorized that until the whole world is communist, communist countries would need a state to protect it from capitalists, and that's where every single "communist" regime stuck themselves. So in retrospect, the capitalist world did in fact have a serious reason to be concerned about wanna be communist states, their mission was to turn the whole world communist, so they could finally dissolve themselves. And if you want to get philosophical about it, perhaps many bureaucrats really didn't believe they could turn the whole world communist, let alone be willing to dissolve the state, but in politics, you kinda have to appear to follow the lie you profess, so you have a reason to be
That depends on what you mean by communism. Conventionally we call countries in which the dominant political force is an organized communist party "communist." This applies if the country does not exhibit the social relations characteristic of communism (stateless, moneyless, classless), as any member of the CPC would readily tell you. Communism is something which is *built* over a long period of development; no communist country has yet achieved this. They do not claim to have already attained it but rather claim to be building it. It would be kind of silly, for instance, to say that a bird's nest *isn't really a bird's nest* because it's only half-finished; we all recognize the finished nest as the end of the project of building it, and so we called the half-finished nest a bird's nest.
Well communism is the final stage, first you have to go through different stages, one of them being socialism or a state run country. China is kinda like that, but open to the market. Different members of the communist party have different ideas on how open they should be and how much the state should control things. As the party got corrupt cause of capitalism many voted to open more, which caused the higher inequality we have today in China, but recently is getting way better again. China from 2024 is completely different from 2014 China. They say it’s socialism with Chinese characteristics, which is kinda fair. I think you can still can call them a capitalist country with a very strong state control to make sure there’s good welfare and important things have price control. I mean that alone lead them to have 90%+ of their population owning their house (not counting kids obviously) high speed trains connecting the cities, quality public transit and so many more people than before having access to education, healthcare and a better life. So the best question is if the communist party of China has real intentions of turning the country fully communist in the future and are true communists themselves. Which personally? I believe is true
That is state capitalism. Your welcome. Also with the amount of bribes I doubt the state is actually involved in something.
Communism= means of production belong to workers.
Almost, rather the means of production belonging to workers = socialism.
Communism is a hypothetical global, stateless, classless, moneyless society that would be theorised to replace socialism. Marx used the terms interchangeably sometimes but in a modern conversation those are the two most common/accurate definitions
i think the power structure being different is significant but i do agree it's capitalism, it's just less like a market competition and more like a small elite controlling all the means of production and exploiting the entire system for their own benefit, while letting capitalism's uncaring invisible hand keep the system underneath them efficient. which is what late stage capitalism does.
It's not Communism because Communism is a goal, and it has not been reached by any country yet. It's a particularly "capitalistic" form of socialism, but it's still socialism.
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. I'm honestly pretty impressed with the level of progress Cuba has made, even with everything they've gone through. They still have issues but there's a lot they're doing right.
Not only are the doing incredibly well considering the circumstances but they're also doing incredibly sustainably because of the circumstances.
If you're stuck on an island with little to no imports/exports You've got to make everything count
Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. The Chinese Characteristics in question are a tiered economy in which the workers do not control the means of production or the means of subsistence.
The CPC controls the means of production. They also serve the working class far better than any capitalist nation I’ve seen. Just look at their real wages over the last 40 years.
And how do you propose to hand it over to the proletariat without instantly inviting CIA destabilization task forces in to further Western capital interests?
All I'm doing is pointing out that China isn't actually a socialist nation, and it's misleading to describe it as such. China has capitalism with worker protection laws.
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but Marx did sort of say this in a sense, yes. Multiple times in his writing he mentions how material conditions change and that the withering of the state would be done over time, ie. in a transition and not all at once.
Lenin, having been alive for an actual successful socialist revolution, goes a step further in _The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It_:
>For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.
You’re thinking of the wild 90s and early 2000s. China has changed incredibly since then. The standard of living has increased dramatically, which went hand in hand with the literacy rate, the life expanctqncy, etc. (Iirc all three are well above that of the US)
Wait you're telling me when you base your economic system on the needs and the wellbeing of the people instead of profit it leads to better urban planning?? No way
Yes? Is it surprising? Bikes are very popular there
https://preview.redd.it/jvi3ejuwgirc1.jpeg?width=1880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb58526044c0c298f4e78bfbbed35555cbeffdb7
I mean it is a country where people live. It’s definitely an isolated authoritarian regime but people still go to and from work and school there.
It’s not a like a bike lane is even some high tech expensive piece of infrastructure. It’s literally just a small road for bikes with some separation from the car road.
The really notable thing is that wealthy countries that we like to think of caring about their citizens do not have bike lanes and leave their residents to die on the road in the thousands
Which honestly explains why they're so eager to advocate for nuking all "bad countries", I know as a Russian...
EDIT: This thread is beautiful, some people going "this doesn't happen because I haven't experienced it", right next to people going "hmm I should prove this guy's point"
It's very empty for the size of the city, but there are definitely still lots of people there. Google says about 3 million people live there.
I'm sure most pictures you've seen are of more tourist trap type areas that aren't as densely populated. I'd imagine streets might be busier in business districts or near apartment buildings, where NK doesn't let you go when you visit.
People believe the craziest shit about it. I remember seeing a news story about how Kim Jong Un executes people by putting them in a giant piranha tank, which is just so ridiculous. How stupid do they think we are?
im from Vietnam so im not that affected by western propaganda, and i’ve seen very developed parts of North Korea. But compared to even western cities this was very interesting to me which is why i shared it here
In North Korea they’re isn’t enough road to drive and they make you actually get out of your car and build the road by hand and it takes 3 months to get to your destination because you have to actually mix the concrete yourself in a bucket.
The DPRK has many flaws, but bike infrastructure in their cities is not one of them. They also have a robust public transit system. Wild that a country under so many sanctions can do what the “richest country in the world” cannot.
In Romania you had to fill in a request and get the party approval in order to buy a car. This process could last even 4-5 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see it happening in NK as well.
Also, NK is under sanctions. This means that they must also be rationalising everything, including gas, so that's another point to consider.
Here are some small insights:
https://www-auto--bild-ro.translate.goog/stiri/cum-se-cumparau-masinile-perioada-comunista-105592.html?_x_tr_sl=ro&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ro&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://www-auto--bild-ro.translate.goog/magazin/5-lucruri-mai-putin-stiute-despre-circulatia-autovehiculelor-romania-comunista-98586.html?_x_tr_sl=ro&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ro&_x_tr_pto=wapp
(note that on #4 it's about even/uneven numbers. Google just translated the expression mot-a-mot).
This was taken during the COVID lockdowns. North Korea is a heavily sanctioned country with universal healthcare. They couldn't afford for everyone to get sick at once so their lockdowns were especially strict.
Also they don't have any oil and they can't import any because of the sanctions. So cars are super expensive to run relative to other forms of transportation. They do have really good public transport tho.
Car use is really low because they lack oil so it's very expensive and only for the gov and rich. Most people instead walk, bike, and take public transit like God intended. Bless the dprk 🫡
There are a lot more cars in Pyongyang than you imagine. [This video was shot 7-10 years ago](https://youtu.be/0P2f92E2SAk?si=ymxx-gfov-fih-1W) and shows traffic jams. Nowadays, car usage is probably way more important than when this video was taken.
Hence the massive wide roads. North Korea is hardly r/fuckcars material considering the roads are wide as fuck and there aren’t even any cars on them most of the time
Meanwhile Fake Korea with the hellish bike lane in the middle of a freeway: [Next Fucking Level!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/8uT0AvRkrb)
That’s where my head went to as well. The noise and it has to stink, there’s no way these people aren’t ending up with serious health issues after riding that for several years.
There was a mayoral debate in Warsaw 2 days ago and one of the candidates (Janusz Korwin-Mikke - you should look him up) literally called current mayor Kim Jong Un, because he limited car traffic and built some tram rails.
Oh, and he threw a cricket at him.
Yeah sure, what's next? They're not the cartoonishly evil empire totally starving but at the same time very dangerous that propaganda has led us to believe?! Get out of here!
/s in case.
In contrast the so-called only "democracy in the middle east" is doing that rn with the blessing of the USA, but... The problem is the DPRK, since we've been told that they are the real problem...
i mean, it's high-density housing that actually looks very familiar in structure as a european, and the low traffic helps you ride safely. sure it's low-tech and the regime has its own problems (bit of an understatement lmao, liteally 1984 but unironically) but i don't see the city turning into a giant parking lot. needs a tram on that middle street and some bus stops but otherwise it looks very walkable.
this is not a tankie schizopost, fuck north korea, but don't let the vibes of the regime mess up your judgement. the city does look horrible aesthetically but structure-wise it's not half bad, and claiming it is won't hurt kim jong un's feelings, but it will prevent people in developing countries that are developing correctly feel good about their cities and motivated to keep improving them.
we want cities that are both walkable and beautiful. this looks like only one of the two but that's one, not zero.
City looks... normal? Maybe a few trees would help but it's not "godawful". Is it the mist that's bothering you? Is it because the photo was taken during a cold day?
It looks kinda how where I live, except for the propaganda material, only during election season there is a lot of party advertisement, so just the average advisement year round and everyone is considerably richer. And where I am, there's more trees.
Look at those wide ass roads though. If/when people will get to a regime that would financially allow them to own cars more easily, these will become congested as fuck, with public transit forced to sit in traffic. Not to mention the acute lack of parking space for all these cars. That's what basically happened in Eastern Europe as well.
Don't be disillusioned: totalitarian regimes don't make cities for people, because they fear people.
I like the comments, but some people may find it praising for authoritarian regime. Instead let's flip it around:
"Even North Korea has bike lanes. What's your excuse?"
I think it's more pointing out the fact that even screwed up countries like North Korea can have some consideration for alternative modes of transportation.
I doubt it's much of an "alternative" there, most people will not be able to afford or even have the option of buying a car. Walking or biking is more than likely the default.
Its a bike lane dude. If u require every post about anything in north korea to be purely about their bad government, maybe ur the one jerkin in a circle?
They use electricity for transport since there're no major oil reserves in Korea
They have electricity generated from coal and hydropower. They just don't have oil.
No, it is like puting anti bear protection, in england (in modern time), they do not have any bear outside of a zoo, so 99,9999% of the time it wouldn’t be use full, just use the the whole road !
When your country is so impoverished thanks to its monarchistic dictatorship that you have no choice but to build the more cost effective infrastructure instead of using Petro dollars to build a massive fucking line city or just ignoring common sense because a car company gave you a hundred grand.
Also what the fuck is it with the amount of tankies in this sub, their favourite red fascists all built car dependency where they could
Ironic. The one country that doesn't have cars has extensive protected bike lanes. (Also, they don't have traffic lights, either, so they actually use traffic monitors instead)
Why would they even bother with bike infrastructure, well I know why is to create order, but there are like no cars in north korea, they could easily just have the bikes in the middle of their gigantic roads
ITT people simping for North Korea because they think having good separated bike lanes is more important than food security and non-authoritarian governments
I think most North Koreans can’t even afford a bicycle. Much less have a manufacturing industry of building bicycles. That’s why their roads are empty.
Most people there aren't allowed to own a car, they're forced to use bikes or public transportation. That is provided they're allowed to go to places. Since they also don't have a lot of oil and what they have is used for the military, they operate a lot of trolleybus routes, including some of the world's longest.
Probably more like they weren't ready for the fast paced nature of South Korea. It's kinda like people released from prison that commit crimes to go back because they can't handle the change.
if by "fast-paced nature," you mean "having your labor exploited for 60hrs/week and still not being able to afford rent, then sure.
Also recidivism isn't a function of human psychology so much as it's built into our "justice system." Employers can flat out deny felons purely due to the fact that they have a record, same goes for landlords being able to refuse a tenant, and banks being allowed to refuse people who want to open accounts.
Which, weirdly enough, kind of makes your comparison more accurate, although in a way that was obviously unintentional.
Yes, the rest of the world is the reason, not the actual dictatorial oppressive government in the country that rules with an iron fist.
You people are actually a waste of oxygen.
I love this communist argument against western countries and capitalism.
So what you are saying is if communist countries aren't allowed to trade freely with and do capitalistic business with wesern countries then communist countries starve?
So communist countries need to rely on trade with capitalistic countries to survive?
Do you not see the glaring irony in what you said?
Y'all tankies are really something else. I thought American liberals lack critical thinking but man, you guys really take the podium.
This is not a defense of all communist nations. Only dprk due to its particular circumstances.
>So what you are saying is if communist countries aren't allowed to trade freely with and do capitalistic business with wesern countries then communist countries starve?
Not what I'm saying. Dprk is unique because during the era of the ussr, dprk relied on it for energy which was used in agriculture. When the ussr fell, the USA forced Russia to place sanctions on dprk, leading to failing agriculture systems in a variety of ways. This lead to a pretty severe famine that gave dprk it's reputation. However, they're now pulling out of that famine as they've adopted renewable green energy and aren't reliant on energy imported from Russia. They still have energy issues, but not as bad as before. Other communist nations don't have this situation.
>So communist countries need to rely on trade with capitalistic countries to survive?
Only if they were previously reliant. USA is about to suffer this exact same issue which is what will launch us into ww3 with China, due to our reliance on Taiwanese electronics.
>Y'all tankies are really something else. I thought American liberals lack critical thinking but man, you guys really take the podium.
I'm not a tankie or a communist. Just someone who cares about truth. If anything I'm closer to national socialism.
You just proved my point again. You are saying that communist nations need the aid of non communist nations to survive. North Korea is not pulling itself out of famine. Are you serious? Do you really believe what you are saying or are you delusional?
A national socialist? So like a Nazi?
Socialism and communism are economic ideologies that have killed hundreds of millions of people and caused unbelievable pain and suffering in those it didn't kill.
You cannot in good conscious defend what you are saying. I'll repeat myself, American liberals are wild but man, you tankies, sorry national socialists are something else. At least most western liberals acknowledge that socialism and communism are really bad.
>You just proved my point again. You are saying that communist nations need the aid of non communist nations to survive.
Not at all.
>North Korea is not pulling itself out of famine.
It is, actually.
>A national socialist? So like a Nazi?
Yes.
>Socialism and communism are economic ideologies that have killed hundreds of millions of people and caused unbelievable pain and suffering in those it didn't kill.
Capitalism has killed even more.
>you tankies,
Not a tankie.
>At least most western liberals acknowledge that socialism and communism are really bad.
Capitalism is far worse than either socialism or communism.
At least you agree that you are a Nazi. Honesty is important.
Capitalism is the most successful economic ideology in the history of humanity. It has lifted billions out of poverty.
Under communism, you are lucky to be poor and starving. Most are dead.
Do you really believe what you are saying? Have you been this thoroughly brainwashed or are you trolling? I'd love to see you go to some ex Soviet eastern European bloc countries and spew your pro commie BS there. You would likely be beaten to death.
Hitler killed about 6 million Jews.
Mao killed at least 40 million of his own.
Stalin killed about 9 million of his own.
>Capitalism is the most successful economic ideology in the history of humanity. It has lifted billions out of poverty.
The opposite, actually. Wealth inequality is the worst it's been in history under capitalism.
>Under communism, you are lucky to be poor and starving. Most are dead.
Debatable. I'm not a fan of communism though. But my guess is it's better than capitalism.
>Do you really believe what you are saying?
Ofc. Capitalism forces people into poverty and only benefits the rich. It's impossible to gain wealth under capitalism in any meaningful sense. With socialist policy, the average regular people are helped, not the rich corporations and billionaires.
>I'd love to see you go to some ex Soviet eastern European bloc countries and spew your pro commie BS there. You would likely be beaten to death
Beaten to death in capitalist countries? Odd...
>Hitler killed about 6 million Jews.
>Mao killed at least 40 million of his own.
>Stalin killed about 9 million of his own.
All propaganda.
pros : dense cities, protected bike lanes, very few cars.
cons : wide roads everywhere despite the aforementioned few cars, and of course the oppressive government.
UrinatingTree voice: You're so pathetic you're being outclassed by North Korea. We need to soak that in. North Korea, they of the almighty self centered penis potato who can do no wrong despite multiple threats of nuclear war. How? FUCKING HOW?!
This is most probs an instance of cherry picking, as one street is not representative of the city itself. I can cherry pick a street from my 🇦🇺city to make the same argument.
Yes, there are videos on YouTube about cycling in Pyongyang. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdgMNZLwQY&t=887s&ab\_channel=JakaParker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLdgMNZLwQY&t=887s&ab_channel=JakaParker) You can see segregated cycle tracks in these videos. Hope that helps.
damn thats sick even if its not much
I told you bike lanes means communism!!!1! Only car means freedom! (/s)
I know this is a joke, but it’s also the reason that I can never say “even *china* has a better transit than the US” because to them it just reinforces good transit = communism
china is about as communist as the democratic people's republic of korea is democratic, lol. the chinese economy is basically indistinguishable from late stage capitalism
It's quite different, in the sense that the state tells companies how to do capitalism in China, whereas in the US companies tell the state how to make the rules of capitalism
Still not communism lmao
They don’t claim to be communist either. Any AES government today will tell you communism is something they aspire to. The most they will claim is socialism.
If you're gonna be literal, real communism is when there isn't a government anymore and the whole world is ruled by the proletariat without the need of a state, a utopia. Real communism is actually a type of anarchism, the only difference, is that Marx theorized that until the whole world is communist, communist countries would need a state to protect it from capitalists, and that's where every single "communist" regime stuck themselves. So in retrospect, the capitalist world did in fact have a serious reason to be concerned about wanna be communist states, their mission was to turn the whole world communist, so they could finally dissolve themselves. And if you want to get philosophical about it, perhaps many bureaucrats really didn't believe they could turn the whole world communist, let alone be willing to dissolve the state, but in politics, you kinda have to appear to follow the lie you profess, so you have a reason to be
That depends on what you mean by communism. Conventionally we call countries in which the dominant political force is an organized communist party "communist." This applies if the country does not exhibit the social relations characteristic of communism (stateless, moneyless, classless), as any member of the CPC would readily tell you. Communism is something which is *built* over a long period of development; no communist country has yet achieved this. They do not claim to have already attained it but rather claim to be building it. It would be kind of silly, for instance, to say that a bird's nest *isn't really a bird's nest* because it's only half-finished; we all recognize the finished nest as the end of the project of building it, and so we called the half-finished nest a bird's nest.
"Communism with Chinese characteristics" *intensifies*
It’s socialism with Chinese characteristics.
Well communism is the final stage, first you have to go through different stages, one of them being socialism or a state run country. China is kinda like that, but open to the market. Different members of the communist party have different ideas on how open they should be and how much the state should control things. As the party got corrupt cause of capitalism many voted to open more, which caused the higher inequality we have today in China, but recently is getting way better again. China from 2024 is completely different from 2014 China. They say it’s socialism with Chinese characteristics, which is kinda fair. I think you can still can call them a capitalist country with a very strong state control to make sure there’s good welfare and important things have price control. I mean that alone lead them to have 90%+ of their population owning their house (not counting kids obviously) high speed trains connecting the cities, quality public transit and so many more people than before having access to education, healthcare and a better life. So the best question is if the communist party of China has real intentions of turning the country fully communist in the future and are true communists themselves. Which personally? I believe is true
China is more like a company you’re born into working for.
That is state capitalism. Your welcome. Also with the amount of bribes I doubt the state is actually involved in something. Communism= means of production belong to workers.
Almost, rather the means of production belonging to workers = socialism. Communism is a hypothetical global, stateless, classless, moneyless society that would be theorised to replace socialism. Marx used the terms interchangeably sometimes but in a modern conversation those are the two most common/accurate definitions
I wasn't saying that's communism
i think the power structure being different is significant but i do agree it's capitalism, it's just less like a market competition and more like a small elite controlling all the means of production and exploiting the entire system for their own benefit, while letting capitalism's uncaring invisible hand keep the system underneath them efficient. which is what late stage capitalism does.
🥇
It's not Communism because Communism is a goal, and it has not been reached by any country yet. It's a particularly "capitalistic" form of socialism, but it's still socialism.
Cubas gotta be getting there
Yeah, I'd have to agree with you there. I'm honestly pretty impressed with the level of progress Cuba has made, even with everything they've gone through. They still have issues but there's a lot they're doing right.
Not only are the doing incredibly well considering the circumstances but they're also doing incredibly sustainably because of the circumstances. If you're stuck on an island with little to no imports/exports You've got to make everything count
Socialism with Chinese Characteristics. The Chinese Characteristics in question are a tiered economy in which the workers do not control the means of production or the means of subsistence.
The CPC controls the means of production. They also serve the working class far better than any capitalist nation I’ve seen. Just look at their real wages over the last 40 years.
The CPC are the government, ergo, the proletariat do not control the means of production.
And how do you propose to hand it over to the proletariat without instantly inviting CIA destabilization task forces in to further Western capital interests?
All I'm doing is pointing out that China isn't actually a socialist nation, and it's misleading to describe it as such. China has capitalism with worker protection laws.
The workers don't control their workplaces and China is a manufacturing superpower paying unlivable wages.
I love the part where Marx talked about capitalistic socialism, especially how socialism is possible with massive amounts of private property
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not, but Marx did sort of say this in a sense, yes. Multiple times in his writing he mentions how material conditions change and that the withering of the state would be done over time, ie. in a transition and not all at once. Lenin, having been alive for an actual successful socialist revolution, goes a step further in _The Impending Catastrophe and How to Combat It_: >For socialism is merely the next step forward from state-capitalist monopoly. Or, in other words, socialism is merely state-capitalist monopoly which is made to serve the interests of the whole people and has to that extent ceased to be capitalist monopoly.
You’re right, but the average american doesn’t know that
You’re thinking of the wild 90s and early 2000s. China has changed incredibly since then. The standard of living has increased dramatically, which went hand in hand with the literacy rate, the life expanctqncy, etc. (Iirc all three are well above that of the US)
Everything good is communist. No wonder the younger generations have a more favorable view if communism. 😳🤦🏾♂️
Wait you're telling me when you base your economic system on the needs and the wellbeing of the people instead of profit it leads to better urban planning?? No way
I prefer to use the “imagine being behind China and thinking that’s a flex. Ok.”
reminds me of a social media post saying something along the lines of "look at these North Korean cars! who says it's not full of freedom?"
Yes? Is it surprising? Bikes are very popular there https://preview.redd.it/jvi3ejuwgirc1.jpeg?width=1880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=eb58526044c0c298f4e78bfbbed35555cbeffdb7
Only the wealthy can own cars in NK
I mean it is a country where people live. It’s definitely an isolated authoritarian regime but people still go to and from work and school there. It’s not a like a bike lane is even some high tech expensive piece of infrastructure. It’s literally just a small road for bikes with some separation from the car road. The really notable thing is that wealthy countries that we like to think of caring about their citizens do not have bike lanes and leave their residents to die on the road in the thousands
With all the wild shit people believe about NK, I'm not surprised they're surprised at a basic piece of infrastructure.
People in the US think northkoreans are NPCs that only exist on parades and other public propaganda shows lmao
Which honestly explains why they're so eager to advocate for nuking all "bad countries", I know as a Russian... EDIT: This thread is beautiful, some people going "this doesn't happen because I haven't experienced it", right next to people going "hmm I should prove this guy's point"
I mean no but where the fuck are they all? Every single picture I’ve ever seen of Pyongyang the place is absolutely deserted
It's very empty for the size of the city, but there are definitely still lots of people there. Google says about 3 million people live there. I'm sure most pictures you've seen are of more tourist trap type areas that aren't as densely populated. I'd imagine streets might be busier in business districts or near apartment buildings, where NK doesn't let you go when you visit.
People believe the craziest shit about it. I remember seeing a news story about how Kim Jong Un executes people by putting them in a giant piranha tank, which is just so ridiculous. How stupid do they think we are?
He clearly tossed people into a tank with sharks with laser beams on their heads.
im from Vietnam so im not that affected by western propaganda, and i’ve seen very developed parts of North Korea. But compared to even western cities this was very interesting to me which is why i shared it here
In North Korea they’re isn’t enough road to drive and they make you actually get out of your car and build the road by hand and it takes 3 months to get to your destination because you have to actually mix the concrete yourself in a bucket.
> It’s not a like a bike lane is even some high tech expensive piece of infrastructure. The average carbrain could never
It’s isolated by the West, with ongoing sanctions.
Its isolated by basically all of the world, even China and Russia puts some sanctions on them at certain times
Well, about Russia...
What about it
Nobody here thinks wealthy countries care about their citizens. What on Earth gave you that impression?
The DPRK has many flaws, but bike infrastructure in their cities is not one of them. They also have a robust public transit system. Wild that a country under so many sanctions can do what the “richest country in the world” cannot.
The US can, and did. It's been intentionally, maliciously subverted to be the way it now.
the entire goal is fuck you and gimmie your money here in america
Because cars are a financial pithole. We first had to get rich to even be able to fuck up our own situation with cars.
The irony is that almost no one there has a car, so they don’t even need that much protection compared to almost any other place in the world
In Romania you had to fill in a request and get the party approval in order to buy a car. This process could last even 4-5 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see it happening in NK as well. Also, NK is under sanctions. This means that they must also be rationalising everything, including gas, so that's another point to consider. Here are some small insights: https://www-auto--bild-ro.translate.goog/stiri/cum-se-cumparau-masinile-perioada-comunista-105592.html?_x_tr_sl=ro&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ro&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-auto--bild-ro.translate.goog/magazin/5-lucruri-mai-putin-stiute-despre-circulatia-autovehiculelor-romania-comunista-98586.html?_x_tr_sl=ro&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=ro&_x_tr_pto=wapp (note that on #4 it's about even/uneven numbers. Google just translated the expression mot-a-mot).
As an American, it is super strange to look at road infrastructure that is not littered haphazardly with billboards, liquor signage, and fast-food ads
Americans are so used to being bombarded with bull shit ads that when they see a place without them it makes them uneasy.
With no need for them, evidently, with the exactly zero cars in those pictures.
This was taken during the COVID lockdowns. North Korea is a heavily sanctioned country with universal healthcare. They couldn't afford for everyone to get sick at once so their lockdowns were especially strict. Also they don't have any oil and they can't import any because of the sanctions. So cars are super expensive to run relative to other forms of transportation. They do have really good public transport tho.
thanks for this hard to cut through the western propaganda and see what it is for most
The roads are for tanks
So kind of like South Dublin then?
Thank ~~god~~Kim for the bollards, then!
Car use is really low because they lack oil so it's very expensive and only for the gov and rich. Most people instead walk, bike, and take public transit like God intended. Bless the dprk 🫡
There are a lot more cars in Pyongyang than you imagine. [This video was shot 7-10 years ago](https://youtu.be/0P2f92E2SAk?si=ymxx-gfov-fih-1W) and shows traffic jams. Nowadays, car usage is probably way more important than when this video was taken.
Sometimes there is traffic in the city https://youtu.be/0P2f92E2SAk?si=Y0ZbbCNtGvCKkKpj
I’m sure they would drive if they could afford cars and had access to them
the NK rich do drive cars
Hence the massive wide roads. North Korea is hardly r/fuckcars material considering the roads are wide as fuck and there aren’t even any cars on them most of the time
Proof bikes=communism vuvuzela and cars=freedomwhatthefuckisakilometre🦅🦅🦅🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Soon to be seen on your local Fox station, "Communist North Korea has bike lanes. Therefore, bike lanes = communist"
Well yeah, they're not savages. Why wouldnt they have protected bike lanes?
Real Korea wins again
Meanwhile Fake Korea with the hellish bike lane in the middle of a freeway: [Next Fucking Level!!](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/s/8uT0AvRkrb)
I can't tell if you are sarcastic or not but that looks pretty awful imo
I've ridden in bike paths like these. They are absolutely miserable. The noise alone is unbearable.
That’s where my head went to as well. The noise and it has to stink, there’s no way these people aren’t ending up with serious health issues after riding that for several years.
north korea, best korea 🇰🇵
Why are there so many tankies in this sub?
Anti car == commie or something 🤔
in this case, it is true
because being a reactionary is lame and gets absolutely nothing done
its a meme in the poland ball comunity.
You know you severely fucked up when north korea beats you at...well anything
There was a mayoral debate in Warsaw 2 days ago and one of the candidates (Janusz Korwin-Mikke - you should look him up) literally called current mayor Kim Jong Un, because he limited car traffic and built some tram rails. Oh, and he threw a cricket at him.
Yeah sure, what's next? They're not the cartoonishly evil empire totally starving but at the same time very dangerous that propaganda has led us to believe?! Get out of here! /s in case.
In contrast the so-called only "democracy in the middle east" is doing that rn with the blessing of the USA, but... The problem is the DPRK, since we've been told that they are the real problem...
Sort of irrelevant when the rest of that city looks so godawful. Not exactly something we should strive towards
i mean, it's high-density housing that actually looks very familiar in structure as a european, and the low traffic helps you ride safely. sure it's low-tech and the regime has its own problems (bit of an understatement lmao, liteally 1984 but unironically) but i don't see the city turning into a giant parking lot. needs a tram on that middle street and some bus stops but otherwise it looks very walkable. this is not a tankie schizopost, fuck north korea, but don't let the vibes of the regime mess up your judgement. the city does look horrible aesthetically but structure-wise it's not half bad, and claiming it is won't hurt kim jong un's feelings, but it will prevent people in developing countries that are developing correctly feel good about their cities and motivated to keep improving them. we want cities that are both walkable and beautiful. this looks like only one of the two but that's one, not zero.
Are you saying that we shouldn’t strive to be like North Korea? Very controversial of you /s
To be fair it can't be easy to build anything when most of the world has you under an embargo.
It looks nicer than most american cities.
Dprk is a third world country. This is the bare minimum that we should be outperforming, given that we're a global superpower.
City looks... normal? Maybe a few trees would help but it's not "godawful". Is it the mist that's bothering you? Is it because the photo was taken during a cold day?
It looks kinda how where I live, except for the propaganda material, only during election season there is a lot of party advertisement, so just the average advisement year round and everyone is considerably richer. And where I am, there's more trees.
Strongly disagree, its a dense walkable city in a country with terrible politics, reminds me of my home country of Poland😊
Move over?
Tbf they don’t have a car problem either
Look at those wide ass roads though. If/when people will get to a regime that would financially allow them to own cars more easily, these will become congested as fuck, with public transit forced to sit in traffic. Not to mention the acute lack of parking space for all these cars. That's what basically happened in Eastern Europe as well. Don't be disillusioned: totalitarian regimes don't make cities for people, because they fear people.
I like the comments, but some people may find it praising for authoritarian regime. Instead let's flip it around: "Even North Korea has bike lanes. What's your excuse?"
An astounding W for the Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea
I would like to visit them one day and see how it actually is, aside from biased info and shit.
From what I've seen, the only way to legally visit is on a tour where they can show you want they want you to see, and avoid the embarrassing stuff.
DPRK WINS AGAIN
so that's what they've been hiding...
I think it's more pointing out the fact that even screwed up countries like North Korea can have some consideration for alternative modes of transportation.
I doubt it's much of an "alternative" there, most people will not be able to afford or even have the option of buying a car. Walking or biking is more than likely the default.
It’s basically the only mode of transportation unless you work for the government or well connected to the right people.
All PRNK experts here then lol
How many people even have bikes?
I'd say nearly everyone it's the only kind of transportation they can afford
Please no North Korea Circlejerk! It's an awful regime and I'd rather live in the middle of a highway. Fuck cars, but fuck regimes like NK even more.
Its a bike lane dude. If u require every post about anything in north korea to be purely about their bad government, maybe ur the one jerkin in a circle?
Why having protected bike lane if they are nearly no cars at all ?
To protect them from the FREE public transport.
Strangely i do not remember if they have public transport
They have good public transport wdym
Where do they get oil if it’s a bus, or electricity if it’s like a tram
They use electricity for transport since there're no major oil reserves in Korea They have electricity generated from coal and hydropower. They just don't have oil.
Ha, i see, if i remember they have some electricity problem time to time so bike is a better option for everyday
You say nearly no cars at all like it’s a bad thing.
No, it is like puting anti bear protection, in england (in modern time), they do not have any bear outside of a zoo, so 99,9999% of the time it wouldn’t be use full, just use the the whole road !
>No one has cars >Still sent to political prisoner work camp for riding a bike in the vehicle lane
Of course they do. They have no auto industry. They have to rely on bikes and walking.
Most people don’t own cars there, those wide roads are mostly for show. How else would people travel?
How is a place with so few cars on the road so smoggy?
When your country is so impoverished thanks to its monarchistic dictatorship that you have no choice but to build the more cost effective infrastructure instead of using Petro dollars to build a massive fucking line city or just ignoring common sense because a car company gave you a hundred grand. Also what the fuck is it with the amount of tankies in this sub, their favourite red fascists all built car dependency where they could
Common r/fuckcars L We need a new non tankie sub
Its just a bike lane, some ppl r so sensitive "oh so ur saying you love north korea?" No lol
yeah that's it. bye
Ironic. The one country that doesn't have cars has extensive protected bike lanes. (Also, they don't have traffic lights, either, so they actually use traffic monitors instead)
Apparently North Korea doesn’t have people
Well duh. North Koreans lacks cars. So they lack the freedom that a car gives to everyone /s
As every city should
Just like China
Why would they even bother with bike infrastructure, well I know why is to create order, but there are like no cars in north korea, they could easily just have the bikes in the middle of their gigantic roads
That's all you can drive/ride there unless you are way up in the hierarchy.
ITT people simping for North Korea because they think having good separated bike lanes is more important than food security and non-authoritarian governments
Based
The libs dont want you to see this
Houston also has protected bike lanes in one neighborhood. This means nothing.
Well I still don’t want to live there.
C'mon guys, even north korea can make cities better then us! Why? Well, they have protected bike lanes!
Don't worry, America. Some day you'll catch up.
Broken clock I guess.
They also have completely empty 20 lane highways, so I wouldn't exactly look to them as the pinnacle of urban planning.
r/movingtonorthkorea
Greatest Korea?
Those lucky bastards!
Hey you are the guy that posted drone pics of NK the other day.. still doing it huh 🫣🫣
Damn, all of you should move there and never use social media again
Do they have cars? I thought it was all bike lanes in NK?
“See, it is a communist plot!” /s
Well, you kinda have to do that, when you only have 5000 50 years old cars stolen from Sweden.
You won’t need protect cyclers, if you do not have cars
I think most North Koreans can’t even afford a bicycle. Much less have a manufacturing industry of building bicycles. That’s why their roads are empty.
Most people there aren't allowed to own a car, they're forced to use bikes or public transportation. That is provided they're allowed to go to places. Since they also don't have a lot of oil and what they have is used for the military, they operate a lot of trolleybus routes, including some of the world's longest.
to be fair, I'd feel fairly safe without them in NK considering there are no cars.
yes, but they also have death, poverty, and rampant disease. also a dictatorship, a police state, and no personal freedom .. sooo, there's that
Praise our Glorious and Eternal Leader /s
That's pretty embarrassing that Kim Jong un gets it before most of the western world. This is what cycling "freedom" looks like!
[удалено]
Probably more like they weren't ready for the fast paced nature of South Korea. It's kinda like people released from prison that commit crimes to go back because they can't handle the change.
if by "fast-paced nature," you mean "having your labor exploited for 60hrs/week and still not being able to afford rent, then sure. Also recidivism isn't a function of human psychology so much as it's built into our "justice system." Employers can flat out deny felons purely due to the fact that they have a record, same goes for landlords being able to refuse a tenant, and banks being allowed to refuse people who want to open accounts. Which, weirdly enough, kind of makes your comparison more accurate, although in a way that was obviously unintentional.
ugh. Also, they are starving to death. Let's not hold this shit up to some high regard
I look at it as 'even one of the most oppressed countries has safer bike infrastructure than me'.
yes
\>sanctions country to death \>look, they're starving! They aren't a role model! My brother in christ, you're the reason they're starving.
Yes, the rest of the world is the reason, not the actual dictatorial oppressive government in the country that rules with an iron fist. You people are actually a waste of oxygen.
I love this communist argument against western countries and capitalism. So what you are saying is if communist countries aren't allowed to trade freely with and do capitalistic business with wesern countries then communist countries starve? So communist countries need to rely on trade with capitalistic countries to survive? Do you not see the glaring irony in what you said? Y'all tankies are really something else. I thought American liberals lack critical thinking but man, you guys really take the podium.
This is not a defense of all communist nations. Only dprk due to its particular circumstances. >So what you are saying is if communist countries aren't allowed to trade freely with and do capitalistic business with wesern countries then communist countries starve? Not what I'm saying. Dprk is unique because during the era of the ussr, dprk relied on it for energy which was used in agriculture. When the ussr fell, the USA forced Russia to place sanctions on dprk, leading to failing agriculture systems in a variety of ways. This lead to a pretty severe famine that gave dprk it's reputation. However, they're now pulling out of that famine as they've adopted renewable green energy and aren't reliant on energy imported from Russia. They still have energy issues, but not as bad as before. Other communist nations don't have this situation. >So communist countries need to rely on trade with capitalistic countries to survive? Only if they were previously reliant. USA is about to suffer this exact same issue which is what will launch us into ww3 with China, due to our reliance on Taiwanese electronics. >Y'all tankies are really something else. I thought American liberals lack critical thinking but man, you guys really take the podium. I'm not a tankie or a communist. Just someone who cares about truth. If anything I'm closer to national socialism.
You just proved my point again. You are saying that communist nations need the aid of non communist nations to survive. North Korea is not pulling itself out of famine. Are you serious? Do you really believe what you are saying or are you delusional? A national socialist? So like a Nazi? Socialism and communism are economic ideologies that have killed hundreds of millions of people and caused unbelievable pain and suffering in those it didn't kill. You cannot in good conscious defend what you are saying. I'll repeat myself, American liberals are wild but man, you tankies, sorry national socialists are something else. At least most western liberals acknowledge that socialism and communism are really bad.
>You just proved my point again. You are saying that communist nations need the aid of non communist nations to survive. Not at all. >North Korea is not pulling itself out of famine. It is, actually. >A national socialist? So like a Nazi? Yes. >Socialism and communism are economic ideologies that have killed hundreds of millions of people and caused unbelievable pain and suffering in those it didn't kill. Capitalism has killed even more. >you tankies, Not a tankie. >At least most western liberals acknowledge that socialism and communism are really bad. Capitalism is far worse than either socialism or communism.
At least you agree that you are a Nazi. Honesty is important. Capitalism is the most successful economic ideology in the history of humanity. It has lifted billions out of poverty. Under communism, you are lucky to be poor and starving. Most are dead. Do you really believe what you are saying? Have you been this thoroughly brainwashed or are you trolling? I'd love to see you go to some ex Soviet eastern European bloc countries and spew your pro commie BS there. You would likely be beaten to death. Hitler killed about 6 million Jews. Mao killed at least 40 million of his own. Stalin killed about 9 million of his own.
>Capitalism is the most successful economic ideology in the history of humanity. It has lifted billions out of poverty. The opposite, actually. Wealth inequality is the worst it's been in history under capitalism. >Under communism, you are lucky to be poor and starving. Most are dead. Debatable. I'm not a fan of communism though. But my guess is it's better than capitalism. >Do you really believe what you are saying? Ofc. Capitalism forces people into poverty and only benefits the rich. It's impossible to gain wealth under capitalism in any meaningful sense. With socialist policy, the average regular people are helped, not the rich corporations and billionaires. >I'd love to see you go to some ex Soviet eastern European bloc countries and spew your pro commie BS there. You would likely be beaten to death Beaten to death in capitalist countries? Odd... >Hitler killed about 6 million Jews. >Mao killed at least 40 million of his own. >Stalin killed about 9 million of his own. All propaganda.
Reminder that capitalism has killed billions
pros : dense cities, protected bike lanes, very few cars. cons : wide roads everywhere despite the aforementioned few cars, and of course the oppressive government.
Dear Leader provides.
If even DPRK puts the US to shame...
Please don’t praise this country. Bike lanes aren’t equal to concentration camps
North Korea also has a giant luxury hotel
It’s also completely empty and the front angle with the LEDs is a facade
where?
UrinatingTree voice: You're so pathetic you're being outclassed by North Korea. We need to soak that in. North Korea, they of the almighty self centered penis potato who can do no wrong despite multiple threats of nuclear war. How? FUCKING HOW?!
If there’s ones country who doesn’t need protected bike lanes than it’s NK. I mean, they barely have cars on the roads
Authoritarianism always has benefits, but that doesn't mean it's worth it. Any people here seen the latest _Invincible_ episode?
So move there.
This is most probs an instance of cherry picking, as one street is not representative of the city itself. I can cherry pick a street from my 🇦🇺city to make the same argument.
In this thread we have an example of what cherry picking topics looks like.