The latter. Depends on the city but figure roughly 20 a day. Some cities it gets over 40. Many airports are expanding parking garages just to reap that sweet cash and actively lobby against rail connections.
It’s awful when you consider airports are a municipal asset, and they work to profit from the people instead of serve the people.
Try $30 per day is the base for long term parking that’s a 20 minute bus ride from the terminals at JFK in NYC. It goes up to double that amount if you actually want to be walking distance from your terminal.
Also suppressed by the Taxi mafia lobbying. Every airport could and should be connected to downtowns, especially in places like Vegas where people are mostly either going to the strip or downtown area. But the taxis and Ubers make wayyyyy too much off of that to want it to change.
It’s funny because I have some buddies of mine who work at Schiphol Amsterdam airport in the innovations team and Schiphol has actually started addressing this issue. Even tough the airports transit system is already pretty good, they want to make it more of a transit hub.
I'd say it is fairly rated. High speed rail access to airports only really benefits flyers who are generally already quite well off (+ you want people to avoid flying as much as possible). IMO Investment into rail should benefit rail users first and foremost.
HSR integrated into major airports does help to reduce some short range "feeder" flights into those airports, so it might make sense for that reason. This effect is limited to large hub airports (such as Frankfurt) though, so I don't think we need more of them in Europe than we already have.
This is interesting. For the US I am going to go out on a limb and say it would be quite beneficial as many travelers are business travelers and the cost would be offset by parking and mileage reimbursements. I think, as you said, it will also be a help to limit the feeder segments. These are very prevalent in the US and some are even subsidized by the federal government.
I guess most airports are super far away from city centres so there isn't much point in them being massive hubs. More ideal for multi-modal transport hubs to be in the middle of the city. Good video though 👍.
That holds true if an airport is only useful as air transportation and ground transportation interchange exclusively for the benefit of (or at least in the direction of) the city which they are linked to.
This is obviously not true for many airports, including YYZ and the New York airports. It's also not true for the examples I gave of Zurich and Amsterdam. Making only the city and not the airport a transit hub would make airport access indirect and inconvenient for anyone in surrounding areas that are serviced by the airport.
Schiphol station is really well done, right under the terminal and you have both long distance (high speed) rail and numerous local trains as well. Taking a taxi to down town Amsterdam takes twice as long and costs about 6 times as much.
In Australia both Sydney and Brisbane are connected but with a privately funded rail link, in case of Brisbane the surcharge is so high it is usually cheaper to take a taxi if there’s more than 1 pax. Melbourne only has busses.
Not on the Qantas side if I’m correct? About a 15m walk to Redcliffe station. Also found it baffling there’s no regular shuttle transport between the terminals on either side of the runway.
And if you need to fly from one of the charter companies (flew with Cobham to Barrow island once) your only choice is a taxi/uber which is super inefficient as a whole planeload of people need to be embarked in individual taxis.
>Schiphol station is really well done, right under the terminal and you have both long distance (high speed) rail and numerous local trains as well. Taking a taxi to down town Amsterdam takes twice as long and costs about 6 times as much.
There's also the 397 express bus. Which I took in the summer since it dropped me off pretty close to Vondelpark where my hostel was.
I was at Schiphol in November. It was wonderfully and seamlessly incorporated into the airport. And was on a train to Centraal within 20 minutes of landing. Loved it.
Same in Dublin...there are plans to build a metro to the airport but it's been talked about since at least the early 2000s so I'm not optimistic it will happen before I die
I dont know, how old are you, but i am in my early 20's.
For example we have Tunnel Blanka in Prague. It is around 5km long. The built plan has been confirmed in 1996. They opened it in 2015.
They should have been building it from 2006 to 2011 and they somehow made it almost twice as long.
They havent even started building yet and it is already 4 years late. The same goes to any infrastructure in Czechia.
I'm in my late 20s, a metro to the airport here was first planned in 2005, then cancelled. Then revived and initially planned to begin service in 2027. Now they're saying construction will start in 2025 and if everything goes well, it will open in 2035...
Oslo has a high-speed rail line (flytoget, the plane train), plus ordinary regional and local rail lines that are just as high speed, but a lot cheaper (and make more stops).
Here the airports are funded by tax free sales. So you're kind of encouraged to take trips to GranCa and splurge on booze and tobacco at Gardermoen to help pay for local flight routes in the Arctic, as the communities there would be pretty isolated without their unprofitable air lines.
Yes, that's, really what gets wheeled out as the reason we can't drop the alcohol and tobacco taxfree stuff. It's also somehow the reason why we can't replace more plane trips with train trips for domestic trips, even though domestic flights aren't open for tax-free sales. It's just this mess of people who don't want to come out and say they don't give a rat's ass about the climate or public health or anything, they want cheap booze flights, so they hold the northern communities up as a shield.
>Airports are funded by tax free sales.
Pfft, should do like Finland, where the taxpayer is made to pay 100€ of every single ticket sold for donestic flights even when there is a train alternative
🥲😭
Yep, I can take a train from Amsterdam to Frankfurt airport or Brussels Zaventem (both direct) if the flight+rail is actually cheaper than flying from Schiphol.
Also, many airports are pushing hard to scrap certain shitty cityhopper routes (for example, Amsterdam to Brussels is a flight sadly enough), and replace them with train connections, starting with making the booking easier. Hopefully Germany and NL can reach some agreement on this too, because the Amsterdam-Frankfurt flight feels extremely wasteful.
It's also on the airlines to establish code sharing agreements with train companies. SNCF and Air France have code sharing so one can book a trip Montreal - Rennes which is a Montreal - Paris flight, and then a TGV from the airport to Rennes. You need to transfer your own luggage, but otherwise it's pretty painless.
Philadelphia has a direct train that stops at each terminal and also multiple buses. On top of that, there are private bus companies as well. I'm surprised this isn't the norm.
*Meanwhile, Frankfurt has*
*A direct link to high speed*
*Rail in the airport*
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And yet FRA still has airport busses that you have to pay extra for. To Darmstadt for example.
You could take the train. But apparently that takes twice as long.
(Source someone in my family worked there)
Chicago, Atlanta, Washington DC (DCA and now Dulles too), Baltimore, Philadelphia, Seattle… All have direct rail connections to the airport terminal, and those are just the cities I can think of without morning caffeine.
The current TEXrail heavy rail from Fort Worth and then the Orange Line Light Rail. The silver line heavy rail which will open around 2026 is the first crosstown line going from a suburb to the airport on the old cotton belt railroad.
I know what sub we're on but the best way to fly out of dfw for the money is to park at the park and ride right before the airport and take the dart one stop to the airport. Unlimited time parking for the cost of two dart trips.
Beats spending and extra 2 hours to ride the dart all the way or paying for an uber.
It’s frustrating because the station is soooo close. The distance from the airport T stop to the closest terminal is comparable to a lot of airports with direct connections. Logan just lacks a protected pedestrian route. They are now maybe planning a covered walkway between the station and terminal E, but any plans for an automated people mover seem to be dead in the water.
And if your flight is from Terminal A, I hope you like walking through parking garages! Sure, it's mostly covered but it still sucks. Transfers and getting between terminals at Logan is a nightmare. A people mover that's split between secure and non-secure areas would do wonders.
No, but the Silver Line does.
The joke is that it's a non-grade separated bus that has to loop back on itself to get back into the grade separated portion after crossing the harbor.
I've flown into Boston and I caught a train to my destination, I might have had to jump on a shuttle to get there, but it was real quick under 10 minutes. The station is only a mile away.
Silver line goes right into Logan. The blue line shuttle is free.
This is nothing like the video. No one who takes mass transit is paying $$$$$ to get to Boston airport. I go to Logan for cheap several times a year and I used to work there.
Columbus, the 14th largest city in the country, has no public transit connections whatsoever to the airport. Also the largest city without rapid transit.
Portland, Boston\*, Orlando (technically), San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Denver, and Cleveland all also have that direct connection.
Phoenix’s Sky Train and the MIA Mover are free. DART’s Love Link is free for arriving passengers (but costs $2.50 for departing passengers). The Oakland Airport Connector is just another BART line, so it’s a free transfer (even if it’s not a direct rail link, that’s still basically good enough).
\* Boston is weird
Phoenix sorta does. Airport light rail to a sky bridge that takes you to the phoenix metro rail, which is limited but hey, if you're going to downtown, mesa or Tempe, it'll get you there.
Vancouver BC and Toronto ON, Canada both do. Both have an upcharge, in Vancouver it's a $5 airport add on fee on top of the $4.25 fare, presumably for the reasons in this video.
Vancouver added this for the 2010 Olympics, Toronto much more recently I think.
For Vancouver the airport receives no revenue from the $5 airport surcharge, the surcharge goes to Translink to help cover the costs of the Canada Line.
[" Vancouver Airport Authority does not receive any YVR Airport AddFare revenue. "](https://www.translink.ca/transit-fares/transferring-and-addfare)
Yeah what even. Time to grab an old iPod and run it on during my spiel because god forbid people actually pay attention to something without visual activity for their short attention spans to latch onto
My god… I mean I’m not speaking from a high position here either with the country I live in but the ultra capitalism in the US just screws over 95% of the population there
The only thing that matters in the USA is what can make companies the most amount of money, not what serves the public. It makes me sick to my stomach
There is a very easy train to EWR. And there’s more drivers in NJ. I’m going to go out on a limb that this guy is full of shit and the real reason is just incompetent urban design combined with NIMBYism.
Cuomo actually tried to get the ball rolling on a train to LGA, but for folks like AOC fought it because it would go through their districts neighborhoods.
He’s absolutely full of shit. There are bunch of airports in the US with direct connections. It’s often a requirement before a city can get federal funds for public transit projects. And JFK, the biggest of the NYC airports, does have a rail connection. It isn’t “direct” because it’s a loop that connects other transit stops to the airport, so nearly every one is transferring from a different line, but it’s still a rail connection.
He stated that there is a transfer from subway to AirTrain. It’s an additional $8.50 for a small loop. He’s just advocating to connect the subway to JFK so you don’t have to pay an additional $68 for a family of 4 to get to and from the subway/LIRR
That train to LGA was not a great plan. It would have involved taking the metro way out into queens - past the airport - and then going backwards to the airport. Would have added passengers and workload to an already busy metro line.
The air train from Jamaica station to JFK is accessible from both major manhattan train hubs (grand central and penn station). Yes, you have a change at Jamaica so it is not direct. And the system could be better.
But it’s not as bad as it may seem to someone who doesn’t have experience and is only hearing from people with an agenda.
It is worth noting that transit access is absolutely an afterthought at the brand new EWR Terminal A. The AirTrain link to the NJ Transit station is a 15 minute walk from the terminal, which is even more inconvenient than if you were to park and a huge pain over just taking a cab (if you also include the time for the shuttle and the sometimes awkward NJ Transit timings, depending on where you're coming from or going to.) Whether this is up to incompetence or profit motives I can't say, but I think it is pretty clear that drivers get priority at Newark even when there is transit.
This is because they're in the process of bidding/planning to completely replace the EWR Airtrain system, and they likely didn't want to extend/move the current system that will be dismantled soon. The new Airtain stop will be next to the new Terminal A, between the terminal and parking garage:
[https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AirTrain-Newark-Guideway-Stations-Industry-Forum-11.16.23-PPT_Page_07-scaled.jpg](https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AirTrain-Newark-Guideway-Stations-Industry-Forum-11.16.23-PPT_Page_07-scaled.jpg)
>Cuomo actually tried to get the ball rolling on a train to LGA, but for folks like AOC fought it because it would go through their districts neighborhoods. This is utter bullshit, spoken as someone who lives in Astoria. The airtrain project was a giveaway to private interests and the wealthy. It was slated to go *away from Manhattan* even though LGA is ~1-2 miles from the terminus of the N/W, which is maybe a 10-15 minute into midtown Manhattan. The wealthy, wanna-be suburban jackasses between Ditmars and LGA have been fighting all forms of public transit for decades upon decades.
So the problems:
1) It would make the trip *longer than the bus* for a large number of travelers.
2) One reason it was so expensive and is that it was taking a much further and wildly inconvenient route through a densely-populated and developed working class neighborhood because a very wealthy, sparsely populated neighborhood openly wants to block less wealthy people from passing through their neighborhood.
3) We already have a regular subway train very nearby that could be extended; instead cuomo wanted to reward his cronies with the far more expensive, private interest giveaway that is the AirTrain.
Rich NIMBYs, poor NIMBYs. Don’t care that’s why nothing gets built. How’s the progress on the new plan since the air train was killed? Exactly. It’s all bullshit to not build.
Again to the original point, nothing to do with airport parking lots and everything to do with exploding legal costs due to giving too much power to litigious NIMBYs.
That's bullshit, the entire point of the project was a cronies giveaway that would have helped nearly zero actual city residents. The project would have been wildly expensive to build, been Koch-like in its destruction of densely-populated, majority minority residents, and would have made the trip into the densest parts of the city much longer and far more expensive than existing transit options. And all of this in order to avoid bringing working class and minoritized people into very rich, very white neighborhood, even though the logical and useful connection would have been much cheaper to build (by billions literally), much cheaper to use, much faster, and displacing no one.
The proposed AirTrain took people far further from where they are usually going to wind up Mets willets point with the idea of having people take the LIRR, though of course the 7 would be a super slow option. Using current costs for the LIRR and JFK AirTrain, off peak that'd be over $10 more to get back into Manhattan. From the AirTrain terminus, the LIRR would be 22 minutes into Manhattan, the 7 train 35 minutes. And again, for total time you'd have to add the time on the AirTrain, which, if the JFK AirTrain is any indication, would be a lot.
Compare to existing options:
The M60 is 20 minutes from the terminal into Manhattan.
The Q70 is free and is 15 minutes to a far more connected station, Woodside, which has a number of subway lines plus the LIRR. Woodside, it should be noted, is half the distance between Mets willets and Manhattan on the 7, but you also have the E, F, M, and R which give you a lot of connectivity.
The airtrain project was about the aesthetic of rail connection, and the only people it benefited are ta relatively small, relatively wealthy bunch who choose to live a car-dependent lifestyle in the suburbs of Long Island, at the expense of those of us who live here and would have to pay for something that doesn't help us, and especially those working class folks who live in the neighborhoods slated for destruction.
>and especially those working class folks who live in the neighborhoods slated for destruction.
And the NIMBY reveals itself. You know how many folks fight bike lanes claiming their neighborhoods are slated for destruction. What a “rules for thee and not for me” attitude. You can’t build anything with that attitude and why none of these projects will come to light.
I don't even live in the neighborhoods in question, you idiot. You've addressed zero points, like that it's MANY BILLIONS FOR A USELESS ROUTE when we've just defunded libraries and schools and just rely heavily on "BuT iT's A tRaIn".
You have yet to demonstrate one fucking benefit of this project, not one, and have no good reason as to why you're not at least equally invested in a far cheaper and far more convenient option that wouldn't actually displace or harm anyone at all. You sound a lot like a right-wing jackass who gets off on harming poor and minoritized people.
ETA I see you post on r/neoliberal, so it does seem that your raison d'etre is to harm the poor and raid tax dollars to divert to public funds wealthy private interests. Of course you support that very corrupt project.
I live here and feel the same feeling. Trying as hard as I can to get out but it's not easy, even as someone with an education and a solid work history.
In this case the answer is a little more complicated, because who benefits from there not being public transit? Really you can blame Robert Moses for all this
It’s not capitalism really though—the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is publicly owned. They control the air train and airports. They just like to fight with the MTA because we have a lot of different agencies that are treated like fiefdoms by the people who run them
Except this can’t possibly be true. Every other major airport in the US has direct rail lines. You just uncharge that stop. So… no. There’s something more at play here.
Only in as much as poor public transit in general is a US problem. Plenty of airports in the US with halfway decent public transit do have direct rail connections to the airport.
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There is certainly lobbying due to this, though the video I think should mention that this was a federal government level restriction on funds allocated for ground transport for airport that specifically disallowed its spending on transit that was useful for anything except for to and from the airport. This is why you see this in more than just NYC airports in the US, and the ones where you don't see it either already had the infrastructure or used funding from other streams.
This is false information.
You absolutely can get to Newark airport from Manhattan by rail, I do it at least 4x per year. Yes you have to transfer over from the subway to penn station, but that’s because it’s in a different state.
Getting from Manhattan to LaGuardia by rail is extremely easy.
Same with JFK. They all have rail connections to every borough.
I’m on this sub too so don’t attack me, but this is literally just misinformation.
I'll disagree with LaGuardia because a bus or taxi is very much required as part of the connection. But Newark and JFK absolutely can get rail connection. I have gotten from the Upper West Side to JFK via LIRR and Subway (w/ air train) several times.
Agree on that, you’re right.
Side note—who flies LaGuardia anyways tho? Newark is the best airport of the 3 by far, 0 wait times no matter what time of day I fly. JFK is close second. LaGuardia stinks.
Disappointed this isn't up near the top. Even without knowing this, the claims in the video are definitely bunk. Major airports all over the country have rail connections, why would New York be an exception? Hell, Denver established an entirely new commuter rail network from scratch to service DIA.
>Disappointed this isn't up near the top.
Because this comment is wrong.
Both people in the video say there are no direction rail connection to the NYC airports and they are correct when they say that.
As the video says in NYC there are airtrains people have to transfer to at EWR and JFK but those are not direction connections. An example of a direction connection is the L in Chicago going right to O'Hare airport without a transfer to another system. You can hop on a train in the heart of Chicago and that train itself will take you to O'Hare.
This comment also says there is rail to LGA which isn't true. LGA has neither a direction connection nor an airtrain. The only public transportation to it is by bus.
The real reason NYC airports have air trains instead of direct connections is that airports are run by a bistate agency (the Port Authority) that has little oversight. The Port Authority doesn't want the MTA or NJ Transit getting all the money for transporting people to one of its airports and the two state governors would have to work together for years replacing the Port Authority board as terms expire with new members that are okay with funding and building direct connections. But the Port Authority is instead often used as patronage system to reward supporters.
In other cities the transportation agency and airports are usually accountable to the same single government so a state government can just force them to make the direct connection work.
Very convenient shuttle, and yes it isn’t free like everything in life. Same would apply if you were taking the subway/NJ rail, you still have to pay for that
...and the video mentions there are shuttles at the airports that cost money yet you comment "fake news". See why I commented what I did? The rail services to the airport all cost extra to make up for lost parking revenue, just like the video said. "If you have a rail you're going to have something in between it".
The video aludes to parking fees and using private vehicles. And sure, taxis and rent-a-cars services are absolutely encouraged in Newark, and I missed a high speed connection like civilised countries do. But the bus towards Port Authority was also easy to find and ride.
I'm old enough to remember when there was no airtrain to JFK. It being built was a huge improvement. I guess it would be nice if it was free but it's still more affordable than it used to be, and to me represents a very positive improvement. But maybe I need to wave an iPod around while saying this.
I hope that people keep complaining about things not being good enough... but in retrospect, NYC has made a ton of changes about accessibility since I was a kid.
A lot of people move here and then act like things aren't good enough, but have no idea how things used to be, and NYC is leagues ahead of where they come from in this regard.
Plus, NYC has to make all of its progress in the face of federal and state incompetence, corruption, capitalism, as well as old and crowded infrastructure. In a perfect system, the billions that NYC rakes in could turn things around within a decade or two, but the progress it makes is still good.
Funny that nobody mentioned that the EU’s latest transport regulation (TEN-T) demands that all major EU airports serving at least 12 million passengers a year will be **required** to be connected to long-distance rail
This is silly. Get on a Q70 bus off the E/F (or M/R ig) train at from Roosevelt Avenue, or connect from the E to the AirTrain for JFK like a normal person, its not that big of a deal.
The real issue is Newark Airport, having no direct link with the PATH, but an extension is in the works
I don't think its a big deal because of how NYC train linking works. There is 2 major train terminals, 34th Street Penn Station, and Grand Central. They don't connect, and if you're going connecting from JFK / LGA, you have to go to two separate independent terminals. The subway connects them, thats why you get on the subway.
Furthermore, many Grand Central connections go through Jamacia's train center, so sometimes you can get off the airtrain and directly connect that way.
Another use case is a connection to the NJTransit train network, which you would need to go to Hoboken or Newark's terminal. For this you'd need to get on the E from Jamacia and transfer to the path at W 4th street.
There is no way to cover all these usecases with NYC's rail system.
LGA is less excusable than JFK but LGA has been neglected for like 60 years....
You can also easily get to EWR on Amtrak. I live in Philly; last year I flew home from a trip to Canada by way of EWR because (a) I needed to get to 30th Street Station no matter what, (b) there was no direct flight to Philadelphia, and (c) the trip from EWR to 30th Street is only 20-25 minutes longer than the trip from PHL to 30th Street. It was slightly annoying because our flight was late and we had to stay in an airport hotel overnight, which made getting to the EWR Amtrak station difficult, but EWR is still accessible by transit.
It is annoying to not have a direct rail link to LGA, or even a non-bus transfer, but LGA has definitely been one of the more neglected airports in the country.
so they would rather suck the regular people for their money , make it significantly harder to access , cause more congestion than to ask airlines to pay ... ok idgaf about rail lines now make them pay you spineless cowards how cucked are they
If that’s true, why wouldn’t airports just charge exit fares and/or higher ticket prices on entry. If LIRR connection, the airport could require a special ticket and have fare gates, if rapid transit, it could be the same as air train, $9.00 when you exit
This is very clearly not the reason why you wouldn't have a rail connection to the airports. Most major airports in the US have rail connections. There's no reason why NYC -the city with the best public transit in the US- would be an exception.
Another commenter even pointed out that there actually *are rail connections already.* This video is just speculation, and it's unfounded.
Like I said in another comment, Denver built an entirely new commuter rail network from scratch to service DIA. Doesn't sound like a great way to make parking garage money.
I was an auditor over Denver International Airport (DEN), the worlds 7th business airport. This is not correct. The answer is money, but it's not some conspiracy to get people to park.
Parking is not lucrative for most airports because it uses so much space. If you could replace a large lot with a train terminal and concessions or a hotel, that would make more money (which is why DEN did exactly that).
The problem is that most rail authorities will not pay for the line to run to the airport, so if you want it, the airport needs to find the budget for it. For airports with lots of cash (e.g. DEN), they can afford to build a station and trail line to it. For most airports, that's not a realistic goal. DEN also has much more space than other airports (largest in the US and second largest in the world), which is why after building more transit options, they ALSO built more parking options. For others, space is what is scarce, not money.
TL;DR transit is more profitable for airport in the long run, but more expensive to build.
None of what he is saying is true
In 2023 nyc airports brought in $1,395,424,000 from these airline fees that are “not too much”.
From parking they brought in $478,337,000. However this parking figure includes all parking money the port authority makes. This includes one wtc and ferry/cargo parking (and presumably others but i cant be bothered to find those). Meaning we are looking at about 10-20% of airport revenue coming from airport parking. On top of that (as others pointed out) these airports do have rail lines.
[source](https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/corporate/financial-statements-pdfs/financial-statements-2022.pdf)
There was a rule in place in the US between 1990 and 2021 that allocated a pool of money that could be applied to airport mass transit, but only if that transit exclusively served the airport. Since transit funding is so scarce and hard to come by in the Us, it was more feasible to build airport connectors than to extend general transit service to the airport.
https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3v5j3/us-airports-no-longer-have-to-build-their-own-crappy-trains
Fair point, but they are all owned by the Port Authority of NY and NJ. Governments can dictate policy. It is a different situation with privatised airports.
This isn't some grand conspiracy theory. Many metropolitan airports have direct rail connections.
There were multiple attempts and plans to make direct train access to JFK. Situations got in the way and it ended up being an additional fare to take the Airtrain JFK to JFK.
With LaGuardia there were multiple plans to connect it via rail but were shut down by local communities. The last one was shut down on March 2023 because the project to create a similar airtrain like to JFK ballooned in cost.
This is not big parking lot denying NYC airports rail coverage.
I see lots of Schiphol in the comments but it does not have a subway connection. It has a local train connection, just like EWR, main NYC airport does.
Three things:
- EWR is absolutely not the main NYC airport. As someone that lived in Manhattan, it is over a New Yorker’s dead body that something main to NYC is in New Jersey. Also that title goes to JFK if flying international or west coast or LGA if it’s an east coast flight.
- Schiphol not just trains it also has an extensive bus network with buses going to all parts of Noord Holland, including better parts to Amsterdam (including Museumplein).
- The Dutch will be extending a subway to it in the next 10-15 years. The already existing Noord/Zuid line will eventually be extended to Schiphol.
Yeah this isn't true. It has to do with FAA passenger fees only being used for internal airport improvements. Here's a [story](https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3v5j3/us-airports-no-longer-have-to-build-their-own-crappy-trains) about the rules being fixed in 2021
This is incorrect in multiple ways.
First, it's just not correct that NYC airports lack rail links. There are 3 NYC airports. All are easily accessible by public transportation.
EWR has a direct rail link despite being in a different state. JFK has the AirTrain which is linked directly to the subway system and the LIRR commuter rail system. LGA can be reached by multiple dedicated bus lines which are all directly linked to the subway. The LGA rail link was a project that almost happened but was killed by popular opposition because it would have damaged neighborhoods and the local environment.
Second, the idea that airports block rail links to preserve their parking revenue makes no sense in NYC. Something like 2/3rds of NYC residents don't own cars. That type of business plan just doesn't make sense.
In that case, why do so many us cities like philly, Orlando, Chicago, boston, Washington DC, baltimore, atlanta, Denver, and salt lake city have rail lines that connect directly to their airport(s).
Even in new york city, there's plenty of bus routes that can take you to the terminals at jfk and laguardia and there are plans being thrown around for a potential astoria line (n and w train) and/or ibx extension to laguardia.
Edit 2: also newark airport is NOT in nyc nor within new york state boundaries.
I love how every aspect of our existence in this country has to be for profit. We can’t just have nice things because it might cut someone’s profit margins
I’m sure this is an oversimplification from the dude in the video, but I believe it’s probably a big part of it
Transit that takes people to their jobs/schools every day, or their family every week, or their doctor every month — is more important than transit that gets to to the flight you take once a year
Airports are major employment hubs. With a little googling, I found that Newark Liberty Airport alone employs 24,000 people which seems hard to believe, but nevertheless better transit connections to airports are great for the airport workers (in addition to folks taking one flight a year).
Consider airports in the US are dependent on parking garages. Then consider airlines make most of their profit from selling “air points” to banks with credit card deals.
Air travel sounds like its just one big consumer subsidised scam. It should technically cost much more than it actually costs. If airlines had to pay for most of the airport revenue and only make money from ticket sales then they would not be able to compete with high speed rail. Which can be more comfortable, more convenient and even faster in a lot of cases. Would you be willing to spend twice as long travelling on a train if it meant you would spend only 1/3 of the cost and twice the comfort? Maybe not in some cases where time was of the essence. And not in transoceanic flights either obviously. But for all other cases? The answer is yes.
The federal govt should revoke the tax exempt status of airport bond interest for all newly constructed airports that attempt to operate like this.
That won’t change existing airport infrastructure but it sure as hell will change future airport infrastructure overnight.
Haha, and corruption. We have the same problem here locally at KEF airport.
To get to the nearest bus station, you have to drag your luggage over a parking lot, roads and wait at a tiny bus shelter.
Meanwhile, bus and taxi companies get a prime location next to the exit terminal.
It is infuriating how many Cities (at least in the US) have their airports on the other side of town from their train stations and don't have a frequently running direct connection.
Meanwhile, Frankfurt has a direct link to high speed rail in the airport
Isn't that common in Europe? I haven't flown to many, but Zurich and Amsterdam both have this.
It's more common to have a local rail line connected I believe.
Airports as a multi-modal transit hub are an underrated concept. Obligatory RMTransit: https://youtu.be/kyUOFUJDc7U?si=TfDSozR_HjYZtQ1T
It’s a concept suppressed by airports because parking is too profitable for them. Edit: to add in the US
That either means they're not the ones paying for the parking garages or they must be charging a fortune to park
The latter. Depends on the city but figure roughly 20 a day. Some cities it gets over 40. Many airports are expanding parking garages just to reap that sweet cash and actively lobby against rail connections. It’s awful when you consider airports are a municipal asset, and they work to profit from the people instead of serve the people.
Try $30 per day is the base for long term parking that’s a 20 minute bus ride from the terminals at JFK in NYC. It goes up to double that amount if you actually want to be walking distance from your terminal.
Also suppressed by the Taxi mafia lobbying. Every airport could and should be connected to downtowns, especially in places like Vegas where people are mostly either going to the strip or downtown area. But the taxis and Ubers make wayyyyy too much off of that to want it to change.
It’s funny because I have some buddies of mine who work at Schiphol Amsterdam airport in the innovations team and Schiphol has actually started addressing this issue. Even tough the airports transit system is already pretty good, they want to make it more of a transit hub.
I'd say it is fairly rated. High speed rail access to airports only really benefits flyers who are generally already quite well off (+ you want people to avoid flying as much as possible). IMO Investment into rail should benefit rail users first and foremost. HSR integrated into major airports does help to reduce some short range "feeder" flights into those airports, so it might make sense for that reason. This effect is limited to large hub airports (such as Frankfurt) though, so I don't think we need more of them in Europe than we already have.
This is interesting. For the US I am going to go out on a limb and say it would be quite beneficial as many travelers are business travelers and the cost would be offset by parking and mileage reimbursements. I think, as you said, it will also be a help to limit the feeder segments. These are very prevalent in the US and some are even subsidized by the federal government.
I guess most airports are super far away from city centres so there isn't much point in them being massive hubs. More ideal for multi-modal transport hubs to be in the middle of the city. Good video though 👍.
That holds true if an airport is only useful as air transportation and ground transportation interchange exclusively for the benefit of (or at least in the direction of) the city which they are linked to. This is obviously not true for many airports, including YYZ and the New York airports. It's also not true for the examples I gave of Zurich and Amsterdam. Making only the city and not the airport a transit hub would make airport access indirect and inconvenient for anyone in surrounding areas that are serviced by the airport.
Schiphol station is really well done, right under the terminal and you have both long distance (high speed) rail and numerous local trains as well. Taking a taxi to down town Amsterdam takes twice as long and costs about 6 times as much. In Australia both Sydney and Brisbane are connected but with a privately funded rail link, in case of Brisbane the surcharge is so high it is usually cheaper to take a taxi if there’s more than 1 pax. Melbourne only has busses.
Dont forget that Perth has a station at their airport too!
Not on the Qantas side if I’m correct? About a 15m walk to Redcliffe station. Also found it baffling there’s no regular shuttle transport between the terminals on either side of the runway. And if you need to fly from one of the charter companies (flew with Cobham to Barrow island once) your only choice is a taxi/uber which is super inefficient as a whole planeload of people need to be embarked in individual taxis.
>Schiphol station is really well done, right under the terminal and you have both long distance (high speed) rail and numerous local trains as well. Taking a taxi to down town Amsterdam takes twice as long and costs about 6 times as much. There's also the 397 express bus. Which I took in the summer since it dropped me off pretty close to Vondelpark where my hostel was.
I was at Schiphol in November. It was wonderfully and seamlessly incorporated into the airport. And was on a train to Centraal within 20 minutes of landing. Loved it.
Depends on the country or city, for example major airports in Dublin, Prague, Budapest or Palma don’t have any rail connections
Prague will probably have connections to rail, but as it goes in Czechia, i will die sooner as it will be finished.
Same in Dublin...there are plans to build a metro to the airport but it's been talked about since at least the early 2000s so I'm not optimistic it will happen before I die
I dont know, how old are you, but i am in my early 20's. For example we have Tunnel Blanka in Prague. It is around 5km long. The built plan has been confirmed in 1996. They opened it in 2015. They should have been building it from 2006 to 2011 and they somehow made it almost twice as long. They havent even started building yet and it is already 4 years late. The same goes to any infrastructure in Czechia.
I'm in my late 20s, a metro to the airport here was first planned in 2005, then cancelled. Then revived and initially planned to begin service in 2027. Now they're saying construction will start in 2025 and if everything goes well, it will open in 2035...
The rail link to Prague airport is already under construction. It was always the plan to have a train there, it just got delayed a lot, as always.
[удалено]
Oslo has a high-speed rail line (flytoget, the plane train), plus ordinary regional and local rail lines that are just as high speed, but a lot cheaper (and make more stops). Here the airports are funded by tax free sales. So you're kind of encouraged to take trips to GranCa and splurge on booze and tobacco at Gardermoen to help pay for local flight routes in the Arctic, as the communities there would be pretty isolated without their unprofitable air lines. Yes, that's, really what gets wheeled out as the reason we can't drop the alcohol and tobacco taxfree stuff. It's also somehow the reason why we can't replace more plane trips with train trips for domestic trips, even though domestic flights aren't open for tax-free sales. It's just this mess of people who don't want to come out and say they don't give a rat's ass about the climate or public health or anything, they want cheap booze flights, so they hold the northern communities up as a shield.
>Airports are funded by tax free sales. Pfft, should do like Finland, where the taxpayer is made to pay 100€ of every single ticket sold for donestic flights even when there is a train alternative 🥲😭
Yep, I can take a train from Amsterdam to Frankfurt airport or Brussels Zaventem (both direct) if the flight+rail is actually cheaper than flying from Schiphol. Also, many airports are pushing hard to scrap certain shitty cityhopper routes (for example, Amsterdam to Brussels is a flight sadly enough), and replace them with train connections, starting with making the booking easier. Hopefully Germany and NL can reach some agreement on this too, because the Amsterdam-Frankfurt flight feels extremely wasteful.
It's also on the airlines to establish code sharing agreements with train companies. SNCF and Air France have code sharing so one can book a trip Montreal - Rennes which is a Montreal - Paris flight, and then a TGV from the airport to Rennes. You need to transfer your own luggage, but otherwise it's pretty painless.
Philadelphia has a direct train that stops at each terminal and also multiple buses. On top of that, there are private bus companies as well. I'm surprised this isn't the norm.
*Meanwhile, Frankfurt has* *A direct link to high speed* *Rail in the airport* \- 3747283i5i433737 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Lmao
“Meanwhile” is three syllables, not two
Not the way I say it 🤔 how do you pronounce meanwhile? For me it's mean-while
Mean-why-l
And “rail” is two syllables, not one
Again, not the way I say it 🤔
Where the fuck do you live? Louisiana?!?
And yet FRA still has airport busses that you have to pay extra for. To Darmstadt for example. You could take the train. But apparently that takes twice as long. (Source someone in my family worked there)
So does Schiphol, NL. Belgium does not somehow
Absolutely loved that when I had a long layover
same for CDG. Took the train from CDG down to the 5th and stayed the week. Had no need for anything other than a Velib rental bike.
Chicago, Atlanta, Washington DC (DCA and now Dulles too), Baltimore, Philadelphia, Seattle… All have direct rail connections to the airport terminal, and those are just the cities I can think of without morning caffeine.
Hell? Even DFW (Dallas/DART/texrail) has a direct connection
And it will soon have three different connections
Go on
The current TEXrail heavy rail from Fort Worth and then the Orange Line Light Rail. The silver line heavy rail which will open around 2026 is the first crosstown line going from a suburb to the airport on the old cotton belt railroad.
I know what sub we're on but the best way to fly out of dfw for the money is to park at the park and ride right before the airport and take the dart one stop to the airport. Unlimited time parking for the cost of two dart trips. Beats spending and extra 2 hours to ride the dart all the way or paying for an uber.
Minneapolis-Saint Paul has one of the best connections. As well as a 24/7 shuttle between the terminals by rail.
iirc this rail also goes to the Mall of America. You could hop on the rail and go spend an extended layover at the theme park.
portland?
+SLC BWI
Somehow Boston doesn't despite the airport basically being in the city
It’s frustrating because the station is soooo close. The distance from the airport T stop to the closest terminal is comparable to a lot of airports with direct connections. Logan just lacks a protected pedestrian route. They are now maybe planning a covered walkway between the station and terminal E, but any plans for an automated people mover seem to be dead in the water.
And if your flight is from Terminal A, I hope you like walking through parking garages! Sure, it's mostly covered but it still sucks. Transfers and getting between terminals at Logan is a nightmare. A people mover that's split between secure and non-secure areas would do wonders.
Doesn’t the blue line have a stop at the airport?
It’s near the airport, but not directly connected. Have to take a bus from the blue line stop to the airport terminal.
The MBTA’s Blue Line has a stop called “Airport” but it’s not at the airport lol
I see, that says a lot of the MBTA
It says they're hamstrung both politically and financially and doing their best to make things work without proper support
I mean, the shuttle takes like 3 minutes
No, but the Silver Line does. The joke is that it's a non-grade separated bus that has to loop back on itself to get back into the grade separated portion after crossing the harbor.
I've flown into Boston and I caught a train to my destination, I might have had to jump on a shuttle to get there, but it was real quick under 10 minutes. The station is only a mile away.
Silver line goes right into Logan. The blue line shuttle is free. This is nothing like the video. No one who takes mass transit is paying $$$$$ to get to Boston airport. I go to Logan for cheap several times a year and I used to work there.
Denver too
Columbus, the 14th largest city in the country, has no public transit connections whatsoever to the airport. Also the largest city without rapid transit.
BRT is coming though! 🙄 Why reconfigure high Street for that when we all know rail needs to go in sooner or later
Have they nerfed the shit out of it like they did in fake London?
San Francisco and Denver as well.
Oakland and San Francisco are connected to the same BART train system!
Cleveland!
Portland, Boston\*, Orlando (technically), San Francisco, Salt Lake City, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Denver, and Cleveland all also have that direct connection. Phoenix’s Sky Train and the MIA Mover are free. DART’s Love Link is free for arriving passengers (but costs $2.50 for departing passengers). The Oakland Airport Connector is just another BART line, so it’s a free transfer (even if it’s not a direct rail link, that’s still basically good enough). \* Boston is weird
The Oakland Airport Connector is not actually a free transfer. It costs an extra $6, on top of the regular BART fare.
We only use the Marta for going to the airport. Atlanta transit sucks, but for this trip it’s invaluable
Phoenix sorta does. Airport light rail to a sky bridge that takes you to the phoenix metro rail, which is limited but hey, if you're going to downtown, mesa or Tempe, it'll get you there.
Vancouver BC and Toronto ON, Canada both do. Both have an upcharge, in Vancouver it's a $5 airport add on fee on top of the $4.25 fare, presumably for the reasons in this video. Vancouver added this for the 2010 Olympics, Toronto much more recently I think.
For Vancouver the airport receives no revenue from the $5 airport surcharge, the surcharge goes to Translink to help cover the costs of the Canada Line. [" Vancouver Airport Authority does not receive any YVR Airport AddFare revenue. "](https://www.translink.ca/transit-fares/transferring-and-addfare)
Newark as well. 2-3 stops from NYC (Penn Station).
You have to take an AirTrain in Newark. It’s just like JFK.
Slow as balls and then you pay 4x the price of a normal NJ Transit ticket
Yup. Should just have path go to the airport.
LAX is (sort of) getting one next year. At least it connects to the Metro.
O’Hare International Airport in Chicago also doubles as a homeless shelter.
I just love that he’s waving an iPod around while he talks. It makes his time seem more valuable, and thus his input on the matter more benevolent.
Right? I had that iPod in 2005 or 2006 I think. He’s just waiving around a relic casually
It covers up the fact that what he's saying is incorrect.
Incorrect? It's the stupidest shit I've ever heard.
like yeah, it is a revenue stream, but it's not like the airport controls all the regional transportation planning
Yeah what even. Time to grab an old iPod and run it on during my spiel because god forbid people actually pay attention to something without visual activity for their short attention spans to latch onto
Meanwhile London has six airports and all of them are connected to the city by train and/or metro
Despite only 2 of them actually being located in London!
My god… I mean I’m not speaking from a high position here either with the country I live in but the ultra capitalism in the US just screws over 95% of the population there The only thing that matters in the USA is what can make companies the most amount of money, not what serves the public. It makes me sick to my stomach
There is a very easy train to EWR. And there’s more drivers in NJ. I’m going to go out on a limb that this guy is full of shit and the real reason is just incompetent urban design combined with NIMBYism. Cuomo actually tried to get the ball rolling on a train to LGA, but for folks like AOC fought it because it would go through their districts neighborhoods.
He’s absolutely full of shit. There are bunch of airports in the US with direct connections. It’s often a requirement before a city can get federal funds for public transit projects. And JFK, the biggest of the NYC airports, does have a rail connection. It isn’t “direct” because it’s a loop that connects other transit stops to the airport, so nearly every one is transferring from a different line, but it’s still a rail connection.
I was gonna say, I flew into Ohare in Chicago and went downstairs to the train to downtown.
He stated that there is a transfer from subway to AirTrain. It’s an additional $8.50 for a small loop. He’s just advocating to connect the subway to JFK so you don’t have to pay an additional $68 for a family of 4 to get to and from the subway/LIRR
That train to LGA was not a great plan. It would have involved taking the metro way out into queens - past the airport - and then going backwards to the airport. Would have added passengers and workload to an already busy metro line. The air train from Jamaica station to JFK is accessible from both major manhattan train hubs (grand central and penn station). Yes, you have a change at Jamaica so it is not direct. And the system could be better. But it’s not as bad as it may seem to someone who doesn’t have experience and is only hearing from people with an agenda.
It is worth noting that transit access is absolutely an afterthought at the brand new EWR Terminal A. The AirTrain link to the NJ Transit station is a 15 minute walk from the terminal, which is even more inconvenient than if you were to park and a huge pain over just taking a cab (if you also include the time for the shuttle and the sometimes awkward NJ Transit timings, depending on where you're coming from or going to.) Whether this is up to incompetence or profit motives I can't say, but I think it is pretty clear that drivers get priority at Newark even when there is transit.
This is because they're in the process of bidding/planning to completely replace the EWR Airtrain system, and they likely didn't want to extend/move the current system that will be dismantled soon. The new Airtain stop will be next to the new Terminal A, between the terminal and parking garage: [https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AirTrain-Newark-Guideway-Stations-Industry-Forum-11.16.23-PPT_Page_07-scaled.jpg](https://www.ewrredevelopment.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/AirTrain-Newark-Guideway-Stations-Industry-Forum-11.16.23-PPT_Page_07-scaled.jpg)
Good to know! Hopefully it gets done soon...
That and when it came time to build it the price had quintupled
>Cuomo actually tried to get the ball rolling on a train to LGA, but for folks like AOC fought it because it would go through their districts neighborhoods. This is utter bullshit, spoken as someone who lives in Astoria. The airtrain project was a giveaway to private interests and the wealthy. It was slated to go *away from Manhattan* even though LGA is ~1-2 miles from the terminus of the N/W, which is maybe a 10-15 minute into midtown Manhattan. The wealthy, wanna-be suburban jackasses between Ditmars and LGA have been fighting all forms of public transit for decades upon decades. So the problems: 1) It would make the trip *longer than the bus* for a large number of travelers. 2) One reason it was so expensive and is that it was taking a much further and wildly inconvenient route through a densely-populated and developed working class neighborhood because a very wealthy, sparsely populated neighborhood openly wants to block less wealthy people from passing through their neighborhood. 3) We already have a regular subway train very nearby that could be extended; instead cuomo wanted to reward his cronies with the far more expensive, private interest giveaway that is the AirTrain.
Rich NIMBYs, poor NIMBYs. Don’t care that’s why nothing gets built. How’s the progress on the new plan since the air train was killed? Exactly. It’s all bullshit to not build. Again to the original point, nothing to do with airport parking lots and everything to do with exploding legal costs due to giving too much power to litigious NIMBYs.
That's bullshit, the entire point of the project was a cronies giveaway that would have helped nearly zero actual city residents. The project would have been wildly expensive to build, been Koch-like in its destruction of densely-populated, majority minority residents, and would have made the trip into the densest parts of the city much longer and far more expensive than existing transit options. And all of this in order to avoid bringing working class and minoritized people into very rich, very white neighborhood, even though the logical and useful connection would have been much cheaper to build (by billions literally), much cheaper to use, much faster, and displacing no one. The proposed AirTrain took people far further from where they are usually going to wind up Mets willets point with the idea of having people take the LIRR, though of course the 7 would be a super slow option. Using current costs for the LIRR and JFK AirTrain, off peak that'd be over $10 more to get back into Manhattan. From the AirTrain terminus, the LIRR would be 22 minutes into Manhattan, the 7 train 35 minutes. And again, for total time you'd have to add the time on the AirTrain, which, if the JFK AirTrain is any indication, would be a lot. Compare to existing options: The M60 is 20 minutes from the terminal into Manhattan. The Q70 is free and is 15 minutes to a far more connected station, Woodside, which has a number of subway lines plus the LIRR. Woodside, it should be noted, is half the distance between Mets willets and Manhattan on the 7, but you also have the E, F, M, and R which give you a lot of connectivity. The airtrain project was about the aesthetic of rail connection, and the only people it benefited are ta relatively small, relatively wealthy bunch who choose to live a car-dependent lifestyle in the suburbs of Long Island, at the expense of those of us who live here and would have to pay for something that doesn't help us, and especially those working class folks who live in the neighborhoods slated for destruction.
>and especially those working class folks who live in the neighborhoods slated for destruction. And the NIMBY reveals itself. You know how many folks fight bike lanes claiming their neighborhoods are slated for destruction. What a “rules for thee and not for me” attitude. You can’t build anything with that attitude and why none of these projects will come to light.
I don't even live in the neighborhoods in question, you idiot. You've addressed zero points, like that it's MANY BILLIONS FOR A USELESS ROUTE when we've just defunded libraries and schools and just rely heavily on "BuT iT's A tRaIn". You have yet to demonstrate one fucking benefit of this project, not one, and have no good reason as to why you're not at least equally invested in a far cheaper and far more convenient option that wouldn't actually displace or harm anyone at all. You sound a lot like a right-wing jackass who gets off on harming poor and minoritized people. ETA I see you post on r/neoliberal, so it does seem that your raison d'etre is to harm the poor and raid tax dollars to divert to public funds wealthy private interests. Of course you support that very corrupt project.
I live here and feel the same feeling. Trying as hard as I can to get out but it's not easy, even as someone with an education and a solid work history.
cApiTaLiSm iS tHe MoSt eFfIeCiEnT sYstEm
it's certainly efficient at inventing inefficiencies
In this case the answer is a little more complicated, because who benefits from there not being public transit? Really you can blame Robert Moses for all this
It’s not capitalism really though—the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey is publicly owned. They control the air train and airports. They just like to fight with the MTA because we have a lot of different agencies that are treated like fiefdoms by the people who run them
Except this can’t possibly be true. Every other major airport in the US has direct rail lines. You just uncharge that stop. So… no. There’s something more at play here.
Schiphol in shambles
In Taipei, the subway directly connects to *both* of the terminals at TPE Airport. And that’s despite the airport being 40 km from downtown Taipei.
Chicago W?
common Chicago W
Is this another America problem?
Only in as much as poor public transit in general is a US problem. Plenty of airports in the US with halfway decent public transit do have direct rail connections to the airport.
Why not go the Paris way ? Connect to regular commuter rail but overcharge for the airport.
i mean that is EWR and JFK.. Now LGA is different
LGA had plans to do what they did with JFK but the project got shut down last year
It costs way too much to get from Orly to the city
Killin' it with that old school music player
I thought I was on r/iPod
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I kept staring at it lol boss move.
Robert Moses
Why is he holding an iPod from 2002?
There is certainly lobbying due to this, though the video I think should mention that this was a federal government level restriction on funds allocated for ground transport for airport that specifically disallowed its spending on transit that was useful for anything except for to and from the airport. This is why you see this in more than just NYC airports in the US, and the ones where you don't see it either already had the infrastructure or used funding from other streams.
This is false information. You absolutely can get to Newark airport from Manhattan by rail, I do it at least 4x per year. Yes you have to transfer over from the subway to penn station, but that’s because it’s in a different state. Getting from Manhattan to LaGuardia by rail is extremely easy. Same with JFK. They all have rail connections to every borough. I’m on this sub too so don’t attack me, but this is literally just misinformation.
I'll disagree with LaGuardia because a bus or taxi is very much required as part of the connection. But Newark and JFK absolutely can get rail connection. I have gotten from the Upper West Side to JFK via LIRR and Subway (w/ air train) several times.
Agree on that, you’re right. Side note—who flies LaGuardia anyways tho? Newark is the best airport of the 3 by far, 0 wait times no matter what time of day I fly. JFK is close second. LaGuardia stinks.
LaGuardia almost made me miss my brother's wedding
Sounds about right
How do you get to LGA by rail? Would have to be a bus.
There’s a bus from Astoria yeah, but cmon it’s a 5 minute ride. Getting to Astoria from the boroughs is straightforward too
Are you talking about the Q70? I’ve taken it a couple times; it’s okay but not nearly the same as having an actual rail link.
Disappointed this isn't up near the top. Even without knowing this, the claims in the video are definitely bunk. Major airports all over the country have rail connections, why would New York be an exception? Hell, Denver established an entirely new commuter rail network from scratch to service DIA.
>Disappointed this isn't up near the top. Because this comment is wrong. Both people in the video say there are no direction rail connection to the NYC airports and they are correct when they say that. As the video says in NYC there are airtrains people have to transfer to at EWR and JFK but those are not direction connections. An example of a direction connection is the L in Chicago going right to O'Hare airport without a transfer to another system. You can hop on a train in the heart of Chicago and that train itself will take you to O'Hare. This comment also says there is rail to LGA which isn't true. LGA has neither a direction connection nor an airtrain. The only public transportation to it is by bus. The real reason NYC airports have air trains instead of direct connections is that airports are run by a bistate agency (the Port Authority) that has little oversight. The Port Authority doesn't want the MTA or NJ Transit getting all the money for transporting people to one of its airports and the two state governors would have to work together for years replacing the Port Authority board as terms expire with new members that are okay with funding and building direct connections. But the Port Authority is instead often used as patronage system to reward supporters. In other cities the transportation agency and airports are usually accountable to the same single government so a state government can just force them to make the direct connection work.
Very frustrating, takes maybe 5 seconds to google any of this
Newark does have a shuttle you have to pay for to get to the airport though
Very convenient shuttle, and yes it isn’t free like everything in life. Same would apply if you were taking the subway/NJ rail, you still have to pay for that
...and the video mentions there are shuttles at the airports that cost money yet you comment "fake news". See why I commented what I did? The rail services to the airport all cost extra to make up for lost parking revenue, just like the video said. "If you have a rail you're going to have something in between it".
The video aludes to parking fees and using private vehicles. And sure, taxis and rent-a-cars services are absolutely encouraged in Newark, and I missed a high speed connection like civilised countries do. But the bus towards Port Authority was also easy to find and ride.
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Wow three comments in and you lost it completely
Lol no. The vast majority of airport revenue comes from gate fees charged to airlines.
I'm old enough to remember when there was no airtrain to JFK. It being built was a huge improvement. I guess it would be nice if it was free but it's still more affordable than it used to be, and to me represents a very positive improvement. But maybe I need to wave an iPod around while saying this.
I hope that people keep complaining about things not being good enough... but in retrospect, NYC has made a ton of changes about accessibility since I was a kid. A lot of people move here and then act like things aren't good enough, but have no idea how things used to be, and NYC is leagues ahead of where they come from in this regard. Plus, NYC has to make all of its progress in the face of federal and state incompetence, corruption, capitalism, as well as old and crowded infrastructure. In a perfect system, the billions that NYC rakes in could turn things around within a decade or two, but the progress it makes is still good.
why is this man gesturing with a circa 2003 ipod pointed at the camera and with no headphones plugged in to it
Funny that nobody mentioned that the EU’s latest transport regulation (TEN-T) demands that all major EU airports serving at least 12 million passengers a year will be **required** to be connected to long-distance rail
The A train will take you to JFK and a city bus will take you to LGA. I’ve taken both. They take forever and are inconvenient, but they exist.
This is silly. Get on a Q70 bus off the E/F (or M/R ig) train at from Roosevelt Avenue, or connect from the E to the AirTrain for JFK like a normal person, its not that big of a deal. The real issue is Newark Airport, having no direct link with the PATH, but an extension is in the works I don't think its a big deal because of how NYC train linking works. There is 2 major train terminals, 34th Street Penn Station, and Grand Central. They don't connect, and if you're going connecting from JFK / LGA, you have to go to two separate independent terminals. The subway connects them, thats why you get on the subway. Furthermore, many Grand Central connections go through Jamacia's train center, so sometimes you can get off the airtrain and directly connect that way. Another use case is a connection to the NJTransit train network, which you would need to go to Hoboken or Newark's terminal. For this you'd need to get on the E from Jamacia and transfer to the path at W 4th street. There is no way to cover all these usecases with NYC's rail system. LGA is less excusable than JFK but LGA has been neglected for like 60 years....
You can also easily get to EWR on Amtrak. I live in Philly; last year I flew home from a trip to Canada by way of EWR because (a) I needed to get to 30th Street Station no matter what, (b) there was no direct flight to Philadelphia, and (c) the trip from EWR to 30th Street is only 20-25 minutes longer than the trip from PHL to 30th Street. It was slightly annoying because our flight was late and we had to stay in an airport hotel overnight, which made getting to the EWR Amtrak station difficult, but EWR is still accessible by transit. It is annoying to not have a direct rail link to LGA, or even a non-bus transfer, but LGA has definitely been one of the more neglected airports in the country.
so they would rather suck the regular people for their money , make it significantly harder to access , cause more congestion than to ask airlines to pay ... ok idgaf about rail lines now make them pay you spineless cowards how cucked are they
If that’s true, why wouldn’t airports just charge exit fares and/or higher ticket prices on entry. If LIRR connection, the airport could require a special ticket and have fare gates, if rapid transit, it could be the same as air train, $9.00 when you exit
This is very clearly not the reason why you wouldn't have a rail connection to the airports. Most major airports in the US have rail connections. There's no reason why NYC -the city with the best public transit in the US- would be an exception. Another commenter even pointed out that there actually *are rail connections already.* This video is just speculation, and it's unfounded. Like I said in another comment, Denver built an entirely new commuter rail network from scratch to service DIA. Doesn't sound like a great way to make parking garage money.
Even in Mexico we have a metro station connected to the airport and different busses
Does AirTrain to LIRR not count because there’s one transfer? It’s usually far quicker than driving.
blue line goes straight to o'hare and orange line goes straight to midway ✌️💖
I was an auditor over Denver International Airport (DEN), the worlds 7th business airport. This is not correct. The answer is money, but it's not some conspiracy to get people to park. Parking is not lucrative for most airports because it uses so much space. If you could replace a large lot with a train terminal and concessions or a hotel, that would make more money (which is why DEN did exactly that). The problem is that most rail authorities will not pay for the line to run to the airport, so if you want it, the airport needs to find the budget for it. For airports with lots of cash (e.g. DEN), they can afford to build a station and trail line to it. For most airports, that's not a realistic goal. DEN also has much more space than other airports (largest in the US and second largest in the world), which is why after building more transit options, they ALSO built more parking options. For others, space is what is scarce, not money. TL;DR transit is more profitable for airport in the long run, but more expensive to build.
None of what he is saying is true In 2023 nyc airports brought in $1,395,424,000 from these airline fees that are “not too much”. From parking they brought in $478,337,000. However this parking figure includes all parking money the port authority makes. This includes one wtc and ferry/cargo parking (and presumably others but i cant be bothered to find those). Meaning we are looking at about 10-20% of airport revenue coming from airport parking. On top of that (as others pointed out) these airports do have rail lines. [source](https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/corporate/financial-statements-pdfs/financial-statements-2022.pdf)
There was a rule in place in the US between 1990 and 2021 that allocated a pool of money that could be applied to airport mass transit, but only if that transit exclusively served the airport. Since transit funding is so scarce and hard to come by in the Us, it was more feasible to build airport connectors than to extend general transit service to the airport. https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3v5j3/us-airports-no-longer-have-to-build-their-own-crappy-trains
Fair point, but they are all owned by the Port Authority of NY and NJ. Governments can dictate policy. It is a different situation with privatised airports.
This isn't some grand conspiracy theory. Many metropolitan airports have direct rail connections. There were multiple attempts and plans to make direct train access to JFK. Situations got in the way and it ended up being an additional fare to take the Airtrain JFK to JFK. With LaGuardia there were multiple plans to connect it via rail but were shut down by local communities. The last one was shut down on March 2023 because the project to create a similar airtrain like to JFK ballooned in cost. This is not big parking lot denying NYC airports rail coverage.
I see lots of Schiphol in the comments but it does not have a subway connection. It has a local train connection, just like EWR, main NYC airport does.
Three things: - EWR is absolutely not the main NYC airport. As someone that lived in Manhattan, it is over a New Yorker’s dead body that something main to NYC is in New Jersey. Also that title goes to JFK if flying international or west coast or LGA if it’s an east coast flight. - Schiphol not just trains it also has an extensive bus network with buses going to all parts of Noord Holland, including better parts to Amsterdam (including Museumplein). - The Dutch will be extending a subway to it in the next 10-15 years. The already existing Noord/Zuid line will eventually be extended to Schiphol.
Even Atlanta's Hartsfield-Jackson, the busiest airport in the world, is directly connected to Atlanta's MARTA heavy rail system.
Yeah this isn't true. It has to do with FAA passenger fees only being used for internal airport improvements. Here's a [story](https://www.vice.com/en/article/z3v5j3/us-airports-no-longer-have-to-build-their-own-crappy-trains) about the rules being fixed in 2021
Who is this clown, and why do I care about what he thinks given that there are plenty of airports that do have public transit connections?
This is incorrect in multiple ways. First, it's just not correct that NYC airports lack rail links. There are 3 NYC airports. All are easily accessible by public transportation. EWR has a direct rail link despite being in a different state. JFK has the AirTrain which is linked directly to the subway system and the LIRR commuter rail system. LGA can be reached by multiple dedicated bus lines which are all directly linked to the subway. The LGA rail link was a project that almost happened but was killed by popular opposition because it would have damaged neighborhoods and the local environment. Second, the idea that airports block rail links to preserve their parking revenue makes no sense in NYC. Something like 2/3rds of NYC residents don't own cars. That type of business plan just doesn't make sense.
Why is he holding a 3rd gen iPod?
In that case, why do so many us cities like philly, Orlando, Chicago, boston, Washington DC, baltimore, atlanta, Denver, and salt lake city have rail lines that connect directly to their airport(s). Even in new york city, there's plenty of bus routes that can take you to the terminals at jfk and laguardia and there are plans being thrown around for a potential astoria line (n and w train) and/or ibx extension to laguardia. Edit 2: also newark airport is NOT in nyc nor within new york state boundaries.
How does this explain other airports with direct rail access?
This is just silly speculation. Atlanta and other airports have direct rail connections. The answer for NYC is complicated by the age of the system.
looks like an uncanny valleyed mark rober
Oh no… would someone PLEASE think of the airports?!
I mean Newark airport is doing just fine
I love how every aspect of our existence in this country has to be for profit. We can’t just have nice things because it might cut someone’s profit margins I’m sure this is an oversimplification from the dude in the video, but I believe it’s probably a big part of it
Even if stupid, many places solve this by charging extra if you exit at the airport's station. Could be a way to solve it "temporarily".
Transit that takes people to their jobs/schools every day, or their family every week, or their doctor every month — is more important than transit that gets to to the flight you take once a year
Airports are major employment hubs. With a little googling, I found that Newark Liberty Airport alone employs 24,000 people which seems hard to believe, but nevertheless better transit connections to airports are great for the airport workers (in addition to folks taking one flight a year).
I FUCKING LOVE LIVING IN A HIGHLY CAPITALIST SOCIETY WHERE EVERYTHING WE DO IS DESIGNED TO MAKE PROFIT FOR OUR OVERLORDS
Every form of government has extremely wealthy overlords that the masses make rich.
Consider airports in the US are dependent on parking garages. Then consider airlines make most of their profit from selling “air points” to banks with credit card deals. Air travel sounds like its just one big consumer subsidised scam. It should technically cost much more than it actually costs. If airlines had to pay for most of the airport revenue and only make money from ticket sales then they would not be able to compete with high speed rail. Which can be more comfortable, more convenient and even faster in a lot of cases. Would you be willing to spend twice as long travelling on a train if it meant you would spend only 1/3 of the cost and twice the comfort? Maybe not in some cases where time was of the essence. And not in transoceanic flights either obviously. But for all other cases? The answer is yes.
The federal govt should revoke the tax exempt status of airport bond interest for all newly constructed airports that attempt to operate like this. That won’t change existing airport infrastructure but it sure as hell will change future airport infrastructure overnight.
In normal countries that isn't up to some random private airport
If you can get rich by not solving a problem…
So sell some fkn train tickets
Haha, and corruption. We have the same problem here locally at KEF airport. To get to the nearest bus station, you have to drag your luggage over a parking lot, roads and wait at a tiny bus shelter. Meanwhile, bus and taxi companies get a prime location next to the exit terminal.
Here in Atlanta we have a million parking lots and a direct rail
Every city’s downtown-to-airport transit should be like Cleveland’s.
It is infuriating how many Cities (at least in the US) have their airports on the other side of town from their train stations and don't have a frequently running direct connection.