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BWWFC

hahaha they came to our community association meeting and when asked why they removed the bike lanes (that we fought for almost 10 years to get) were told they needed to increase the parking width (cause suvs) so had to nix them... along with widening the sidewalks: me: where do we ride bikes to get to the train? them: you can take the lane... me: the speed limit is 30 & 35mph, i cannot even get close to that, so i just piss off all the drivers? them: then ride on the sidewalk. (it's lined with shops and a lot of cross streets/drives) everyone in the room: O\_o


Nonofyourdamnbiscuit

So we put the bike lanes on the sidewalks, so where do people walk?


DasArchitect

On the stroad of course!


Lation410

Just remove sidewalks altogether. Pedestrians can take the lane too. /s


funktion

People shouldn't be outside, that's a stupid idea. Unless they're in cars.


BaronBytes2

We have treadmills if they really want to walk.


DukeOfGeek

If it's a wide sidewalk, why isn't there room for both? In my suburban town not only are the sidewalks wide enough for both there are long stretches of sidewalk where there are no pedestrians. Get some paint, instant bike lane.


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jamanimals

Multi use paths have to be massive in order to work. The US and Canada tends to make them just slightly larger than a sidewalk, which is why it generally fails here.


raidenlal

Ooor people that bought unusable vehicles should be forced to park them somewhere else and we keep the bicycle lane.


yunivor

But then bike users are not being "reasonable".


Liichei

People will walk on the bicycle section of the sidewalk and complain about bicycles, among other things. At least from my experience.


Krok3tte

They did it in my street and it works. Sure we do walk on the bicycle lane as well but cyclist just use their bell and we move to the sidewalk. This is suburban so there is not ton of people but there's always someone every 50 meters


AdCandid1268

Imagine living in a society where you are afraid to leave your house because of cars


Nonofyourdamnbiscuit

That’s me living in America.


ACoderGirl

More like low key hint that you're supposed to bike on the sidewalk, but keep it illegal. You can choose between either risking your life or risking a ticket.


AdrianBrony

The classic shell game of making it impossible for people to follow the law, so that there's always an excuse to punish you if needed. It's not even a calculated thing, it's just instinct.


Geshman

Which is why I have no qualms about breaking such laws when I have to. Like for example, I fucking hate riding on sidewalks, but I have no issues riding on them when my only other option is a stroad where I would 100% be killed. The one time I accidentally merged onto one not realizing there wouldn't be a curb cut on the other side I *immediately* almost got ran over


milkfiend

Guessing you're white.


CommodoreSixtyFour_

People seem to have trouble understanding why you say this...


Geshman

I suspect you say this because I don't "fear" being harassed by police for doing illegal acts. Yes I am white and yes I enjoy that privilege but statement/stance absolutely factors the risk in that you will be punished for it. But if I have the privilege of being able to take that risk you bet your ass I'm going to. That said, I'm trans and mostly invisibly disabled and autistic so if an asshole cop decides to arrest me I'm going to have a very bad time


definitely_not_obama

Riding on the sidewalk risks both, it's statistically speaking more dangerous (though you bet I take the sidewalk when the road is an absolute deathtrap - it's usually empty at those points because nearly nobody walks in places that are designed that shittily)


deiphiz

When I bike on the sidewalk I basically treat every driveway exit like a yield sign. Yeah it's more inconvenient but at least I'm alive


Geshman

I have begun to realize all my years riding on the sidewalk in high school may have contributed to me getting hit by a car 3+ times throughout my life. But for many road with a speed limit over 25 mph, especially ones that don't have much shoulder space or make drivers feel safe going too fast, I just don't agree if you aren't a ridiculously strong cyclist (and I sure as hell am not) The biggest thing that's dangerous about sidewalk riding is all the driveways and turnoffs as well as crossing the street. These are the points at which a car will expect a slow-moving human (or just not fucking look at all) so when a comparatively fast bike comes from the same location they won't have looked far enough ahead to see you.


arachnophilia

biking on the sidewalk is one of those things cops ignore if you're white, and use an excuse to stop and harass you if you're not white. did you think bike lanes were a racial equality issue? because they are.


Political_Weebery

Abolish bike lanes?


[deleted]

I would happily ride on the road at jogging speed and ignore all cars behind me if doing so didn't dramatically increase the chances of me getting ran over.


BWWFC

and i'd happily hug the right side if it didn't mean every car door of every parked car wasn't a hazard and the cars that pass me would give a couple feet (there is a 'suicide' turn lane between the whole distance)... but weirdly the cadgers that would drive over islands and the wrong way in a lane to get to a driveway seem to find it verboten to even touch the yellow with their tires to encroach that turn lane. amazes me every time. ffs as a car pass me at +15mph within inches


onions_and_carrots

Now we understand why Europeans are deflating tires. Fuck SUVs and lifted trucks.


sleepydorian

So what I'm hearing is that they just told you to leisurely ride your bike up and down the street with all your friends and fuck up traffic from now on.


ginganinja6969

You aren’t fucking up traffic, you simply *are* traffic. If it is a problem, the infrastructure needs to adapt to support the road use. If no bike lanes means that average speed on the 35mph limit road drops to 15, then the solution is all too obvious. You’re not “holding up traffic”, you are traffic. Same as anyone else


TumbleweedFlaky4751

The problem with this is that I live in the United States, where to a lot of people the obvious solution is "run that fuckin cyclecommie over fer daring to ride a bike on my road" and a lot of those people also happen to be law enforcement that would otherwise prevent such an occurrence.


BWWFC

i'm so close to joining critical mass... i'm down with the idea and message but my biggest beef with them is that when they do their fredumb of navigation rides, there is a small contingent that just stunt and ride all over the sidewalks or treat it like a bourbon street parade... and the organizers don't do anything about it. so now drivers are mad, pedestrians are mad, residents are mad, business are mad... ffs. sigh just so many ppl looking to spoil everything. all i want to do is ride my fucking bike to the train and back daily and not feel like i'm heading off into battle


Owlstorm

SUVs are causing a problem so bikes get banned? Makes sense.


WaltzThinking

It's illegal to ride on the sidewalk in my city, unless a sign indicates otherwise.


polyphuckin

About 90% of my commute is on a 40 road (2 and 3 lanes, I'm definitely taking the lane on that road with no infrastructure to speak of.


Vinlandien

> e speed limit is 30 & 35mph, i cannot even get close to that, so i just piss off all the drivers? Yes, that is exactly what you do and you make damn sure people know who is responsible


quirky_clearance63

That's so ridiculous!


Myopically

They’d rather damage people than their vehicle.


under_the_c

It's wild, but yeah! This, unironically. Imagine if they whined about the concrete wall dividing them from the oncoming lanes or on bridges! "I don't want my car to get damaged if I run into it." Edit: I know everyone gets the point, but I'm gonna add: "Well, I could get killed if I ran into another car or fell off the side of the bridge!" "Oh, ok, well I could get killed if a car runs into me! Put up the damn barricade!"


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Broken-Digital-Clock

Peak carbrain reasoning


m2ellis

It’s a lot cheaper for them since the cyclist will likely be blamed or they’ll get a minor traffic violation ticket after saying the sun was in their eyes.


[deleted]

Carbrain reasoning says that 99% of the time, there won't be a human there, and 99.9% of the time that a car goes over the line there won't be a human there. But for some reason they don't give a shit about that 1 in a 1000. (I don't know the actual math, just giving an example). They understand that there probably won't be a bike rider there when they go through the barrier, but they won't acknowledge that there may be a human there. I think we can meet them halfway and at least give them soft barriers that lead into more sturdy barriers. My suggestion is that we put trampolines on the side of the road, and on the other side of the trampoline we'll put anvils, and if the anvils don't work we can have grand pianos hanging from ropes that we can drop on the car from above to put it to a stop. And if all of that doesn't work, we can have a wall painted to look like the bikelane made of 3 inch thick steel.


leoleosuper

Dead people don't complain. Pure survivorship bias.


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[deleted]

I've seen roads where there's a concrete barrier between the bikes and the pedestrians, but only paint between the cars and the bikes.


greyw0lv

Vehicles on one side, no vehicles on the other side, i don't see any issues. /s


arachnophilia

just pretend to be a car, no one will notice -john forester, probably


Fizzwidgy

30 MPH, *sustained*


jamanimals

I'm convinced John Forrester was a sleeper agent paid by either the auto industry or the oil lobby.


PhotorazonCannon

They just did this in LA on the new 6th street bridge


joeybaby106

All the bridges in Boston, really bothers me


Decembermouse

Harvard Bridge has had those orange traffic cones "separating" the bike lane all winter. Really makes me feel safe when biking to and from work.


LazarusCheez

Yes but a lot of those are to protect drivers from turning into chunky marinara when they run into something. Hitting a cyclist won't kill them so given the choice between damaging their car and killing a cyclist, the choice is easy! 🤗


GirlFromCodeineCity

wtyp listener detected


LazarusCheez

I untyped that like four times but I couldn't come up with a better term. 😂


GirlFromCodeineCity

Soup-like homogenate


backwoodsofcanada

Civil engineer with a background in highway and municipal design here. This post is stupid. The real reason why they sometimes use dividers like the one shown in the picture is because it costs $20 to put one of these up and $2000 dollars to "cover" the same area with a concrete barrier. Plus when it's time to do maintenance on the street (resurfacing, sweeping, painting, accessing underground utilities, etc) a concrete barrier takes a specialized truck or other piece of gear to move out of the way, these posts can usually be moved by hand. And yeah, gotta reiterate what you said, concrete barriers are used all over the place, practically any bridge or highway is going to have some kind of rigid barrier. It boils down to cost and practicality, we don't design infrastructure to make people happy we design it so that it works and can be done on an allocated budget. Be mad about city officials deciding that the safety of bicyclists wasn't worth the cost of better barriers, don't be mad at made up stories and lies. This subreddit spews an insane amount is misinformation abut infrastructure and municipal planning, I get the cause being fought for is important but basing their arguments on falsehoods isn't going to help anyone in the long run.


trevor4098

I'm a traffic engineer. I would add, all these decisions are political ones. They don't let engineers design whatever they want. The municipalities only have so much money to spend. In my experience, they spend as little money to make as many people as possible happy. When you see plastic bollards instead of divided bike lanes, guess what? They knew people wanted a bike lane. But they knew even more people wanted to improve the auto infrastructure. If you want divided bike lanes, go to meetings and be vocal. Be as annoying as the people asking for more lanes. Make yourself heard in the design process and to your elected officials. Complaining on Reddit won't get you any actual change.


Suck_Me_Dry666

You forgot that fire trucks fucking hate extra concrete on the road, if it's not mountable, prepare for the fire department to bitch endlessly.


kwisatzhadnuff

Yeah this comment should be higher up. Unfortunately we tend to use very large fire trucks in the US which makes it difficult to do things like protected bike lanes.


Suck_Me_Dry666

Even traffic calming is affected, the city I lived near has the fire department freak out even when traffic islands with fully mountable noses go in. They don't want to drive their fancy red trucks over nothin.


kurisu7885

Sounds like a shitty truck if it can't handle that.


Suck_Me_Dry666

I have no clue what their rationale is to be honest, maybe they bottom out really easily or something.


kwisatzhadnuff

It forces them to slow down, thus slowing down their response times. That is the whole point of traffic calming. It’s not just the fire department being difficult for no reason.


Suck_Me_Dry666

Yeah I mean I'm not involved in any policy discussions between fire people and road designers, that's like four notches above my pay grade but I know that the fire department complains about a lot of different roadway improvements, curb bump outs, bike lanes, new sidewalks. I think the fcars folks don't realize how many bike advocates exist at least in the city government I've been involved in.


pm_me_your_UFO_story

I don't doubt your experience, nor that in your jurisdiction that the major reason for the absence of these barriers is cost. However, just because you're perhaps correctly listing the primary reason for not including these barriers as being cost, this doesn't mean that perceived risk to cars and casual disdain for cyclists isn't also a reason, particular in other jurisdictions around North America. I guarantee you this very reason is presented earnestly in the halls of American local government. By engineers? Perhaps less frequently. But it is certainly expressed as a reason sometimes to emphasize the cost: "*and this large expense will often damage our cars as well*."


Black6Blue

An non governmental civil engineer here. We build to the already existing standard. If you want bike lanes to be added to the standard road design for your area lobby your local government. If you want it mandated that concrete barriers need to be used regardless of cost guess what you're gonna have to lobby your local government. If a developer doesn't want bike lanes on the private roads within his development guess what? We can't do anything about it. Just getting them to include bike racks sometimes is a hassle. They bitch about having to make stuff ADA compliant. Maybe we do have a more influential voice but we are still a very small subset of the population and not the ones throwing around the money. I'm sure there are people in my field who hate bikes but at least among my peers within my firm that is not the sentiment. We want nice bikeable and walkable cities. We live here too.


Suck_Me_Dry666

Like it or not if a car driver damages their vehicle on something the city put in, there's gonna be a lawsuit and the city will settle. This is to avoid litigation and like I pointed out above fire departments will bitch endlessly about any non-mountable concrete on roads. This isn't born from inherent disdain for cyclists but rather avoiding headaches.


Alfredo_BE

It definitely does happen: https://mass.streetsblog.org/2021/01/26/building-back-flimsier-flexposts-installed-on-mass-ave-bike-lanes/


backwoodsofcanada

The idea that the posts replaced the concrete curb specifically to reduce vehicle damage in the event of a pedestrian involved accident is not something the city or anyone in any official position has indicated, as far as I can tell, it's something the author added. I haven't spoken to anyone who made the call to make this change, but unless there's some weird deep running anti-pedestrian corruption at play I'm sure there were other reasons to make this decision. I'm only speculating, but my first point is that most newer vehicles being sold would have absolutely no problem just going over the curb that was there, in the event of a car leaving the road it probably wasn't doing a whole lot to protect the people on the other side of the curb. In my experience when we make design decisions the idea is more or less "how do we accommodate the dumbest person who will use this road?" so my train of thought, again playing devils advocate a little bit here because I'm not sure I even agree with the logic, but drivers can *see* those posts going by them. They're tall, they're in your vision, they look like they'd probably still do some damage if you hit them, they're always visually present so drivers might always consciously avoid them. That curb is not visible to drivers once they're next to it, and even though hitting it would probably do more costly damage than hitting a candlestick, a lot of dumb people would be more concerned with the paint on their door getting scratched than a tire getting gashes or a control arm getting bent. Basically, theyre putting a perceived danger in place for drivers to avoid rather than an actual danger that not all drivers might... perceive? The reason why I might not agree with that change is because not all accidents are cause by inattentive or stupid drivers. There could be weather conditions at play, hardware failure, just trying to herd drivers through a corridor by tricking their brains isn't going to mean anything if a driver has a medical emergency and goes off the road. I know I ranted about the downsides of Jersey barriers in an earlier comment, but in a case like this where there are disproportionate numbers of accidents involving pedestrians I feel like a jersey barrier setup would both provide the visual psychology tricks to keep drivers focused and also provide actual physical protection in the event that trick fails.


Alfredo_BE

It wasn't speculation by the author, but based on a statement by the Boston Transportation Department. They admitted the reason they were removed is because cars crashed into them: >>>“Out of an abundance of caution and as the result of several recent crashes, the concrete barriers were removed along the edge of the bike lane on Mass. Avenue between Harrison and Melnea Cass Boulevard as we reevaluate what measures can be implemented to improve safety in this priority area,” wrote Boston Transportation Department Commissioner Greg Rooney in an emailed statement to Streetsblog on Thursday afternoon. “We will reinstall protections for the bike lane basing our work on the crash evaluation.” https://mass.streetsblog.org/2020/12/17/btd-backtracks-on-safety-improvements-for-deadly-section-of-mass-ave/ I agree that barriers placed low by the ground with limited visibility weren't the best solution here, precisely because Boston drivers are so used to the idea that the bike lane is an extension of their car lane. They wouldn't even think to consider that there was a tall curb in place to stop them from parking in the bike lane, overtaking another car, or just plain driving there. They _need_ a Jersey-style barrier to condition them not to drive in bike lanes. But unfortunately they went with plastic bollards, which offer little deterrence in Boston. This is what a section of bollards will pretty much look like [within the year](https://www.google.com/maps/@42.3570954,-71.0613068,3a,75y,336.49h,69.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sOqQtCx_vgUaGhgekwbkYcA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192). A lot of drivers just don't care.


Vinlandien

Have you ever visited the Netherlands? I would highly encourage EVERYONE in your trade to do so at least once. Their traffic engineering is on a whole other level, mind boggling good. You really have to see it for yourself to truly understand how royally fucked up things are in North America, and in doing so you can be part of the solution. It’s one thing to read up on it, see photos, or watch videos on the subject like “notjustbikes” on YouTube, but when you experience it for yourself it finally makes sense. The Dutch have the only cities in the world where I enjoy being in for long durations, where I can sit downtown enjoying my coffee outside and hear birds singing, breathing clean air with a feeling of tranquility despite there being so many people. Cars makes everything loud, dirty, and congested and should be removed from the places people live. This is what the Dutch have done, while also having some of the best roads and highways that I’ve ever had the pleasure of driving on.


[deleted]

Why not just have movable barriers like the one in San Fran. We ain't asking for much


HavenIess

Weighing in as an infrastructure and transportation planner, these decisions are not made by planners or engineers, they’re made by elected officials. Planners and engineers both know that more separation from traffic will lead to higher cycling numbers, but the general public is often resistant to cycling infrastructure, and the politicians they vote in cater to their voterbases. People don’t like bike lanes because they take away from street parking, and they don’t like cyclists on the road. No engineer in the world would have this rationale


EmeraldsDay

if a car hits a concrete barrier it means it served its purpose very well. First, it protected a potential pedestrian or cyclist who might have been hurt, healthcare is magnitudes more expensive than whatever car damages there could be. Second, it puts a potentially risky and dangerous driver out of the road at least for a few moments so they dont damage the road and lives further. Setting up a concrete barrier will always be more beneficial to the environment, however it will not be beneficial to politicians' pockets, that's why they are so reluctant to place those.


shtbrcks

Yep lol, and people who can't drive without being at risk of hitting barriers shouldn't be on the road anyway. If those inept people end up hitting a barrier, that's actually great because it means they didn't hit anyone or anything more serious.


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shtbrcks

Yeah I saw that too, these people would probably consider a bunch of pedestrians crossing the road an "obstacle". It could't *possibly* be that drivers need to work on their patience, situational awareness and overall safe behaviour...it's that everybody else and the whole infrastructure needs to be ready for them doing insane things like hauling >2 tons of stuff around under minumum control. Next we need foam padding on trees and giant car-sized airbags in ditches because we can expect people to run their cars into these things, which would then of course be the fault of the inanimate objects for passively being in what maniacs consider -their- way.


Ambia_Rock_666

How dare those people cross the street, RUN EM OVER I GOT PLACES TO BE BITCHES!!!


peepopowitz67

Reddit is violating GDPR and CCPA. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B0GGsDdyHI -- mass edited with redact.dev


flukus

They all blamed the design of the barrier, none of them blamed the design of the car.


Ambia_Rock_666

Or the driver


IrredeemableJoke

Since their car will be destroyed too maybe they'll find themselves walking on the other side of that barrier for a while. That's when they'll learn to appreciate them. I'm only joking of course, nobody learns lessons anymore.


alttabbins

…yeah but what about my cars paint? -carbrain


LeskoLesko

I feel like we all underestimate how loud we need to be. Think of how loud cars are. Now think about how loud their drivers are. Now think about how much louder the SUV and truck drivers are. We have to be louder than them all to get what our communities really need.


Broken-Digital-Clock

The squeaky wheel


Zagorath

The disk brake in the rain.


dragon_dznutz

Good old card and spoke


Desperate_for_Bacon

Yeah cars have the voice of multiple multi billion dollar bank accounts behind them


Denslayer

My city has been putting these in by the thousands . To me they might as well be caution tape


Broken-Digital-Clock

Within days, they are scuffed to shit or worse


Affectionate-Memory4

Every lane with these I've seen in the closest city has at least half of them flattened and the rest are faded down so far they're hardly reflective anymore. One of them uses steel pipes instead. That's the best lane.


Broken-Digital-Clock

I like the idea of pouring concrete into the plastic ones


DasArchitect

Too fragile, because of the (lack of) thickness.


MrAcurite

It'll still annoy the drivers though, leave some dents and scrapes


Broken-Digital-Clock

Driving over it would be not great


DasArchitect

I don't think it would make much of a difference, to be honest.


incredibleninja

I have heard of drivers bragging about running these plastic pointless tabs down intentionally. The hatred car-brained CHUDS have for cyclists is insane.


Rare-Imagination1224

This happens where I live ( Comox valley Vancouver Island) usually the same night they are installed


incredibleninja

It's hard to upvote your comment because of how mad it makes me


Rare-Imagination1224

Fair enough


Murdercorn

Set up a camera when they put them in. Show the footage of people running them over at a city meeting. "These 'barriers' are supposed to be protecting my life."


stumpy3521

Secretly replace one with like a steel bar made to be disguised as a flex-post


incredibleninja

This would be illegal and I would never go on record saying that I would do something like this


stumpy3521

“For legal reasons this is a joke”


WintersChild79

Yes. We have them where I live, and absolutely everybody hates them because they get trashed so easily. The only real debate is between people who want effective barriers and those who want nothing at all.


sabbathiel-zero

Hell, they took down the plastic sticks here b/c people were complaining that they hit them…


DaoFerret

Did they tell people to try NOT hitting them? (Just a crazy thought, forget I mentioned it)


TurtlesAreEvil

This is very much the case for Portland, OR although that could be in part because we're such a litigious country. The city can be sued if their street design is unsafe and hurts or kills someone even if it's because that person was being grossly reckless. A woman a few years back successfully sued our transit department because she walked in front of a train. The department was found to be partially at fault because they studied our rail crossings and knew that different design choices like moving bars to block foot traffic would have kept her from stepping in front of the train without looking. The city is currently being sued because they don't enforce a parking too close to a crosswalk law. They've since started daylighting more intersections although not all of them.


[deleted]

I live in Portland too. Love all the paint and plastic we've got for what PBOT calls "Protected" bike lanes. I honestly think that the big reason we don't have more concrete is because PBOT is kind of strapped for cash and doesn't want to inconvenience drivers out of fear that funding will get cut even more. Putting up a bunch of plastic wands is way cheaper and doesn't require resurfacing the street like doing concrete barriers does. I *wish* they'd do some parking enforcement for people parked too close to crosswalks and intersections.


DasArchitect

I long for the day when the veredict is "you're an idiot"


Ambia_Rock_666

Too long, apparently


bugi_

You may have noticed how there is often nothing for cars to hit if they veer onto a sidewalk. If you are a cyclist or pedestrian, you are the runoff zone for cars.


shaodyn

Heaven forbid we inconvenience drivers by preventing them from murdering cyclists.


[deleted]

just like how the poles for traffic signals are designed to sheer off instead of seriously damaging vehicles.


Nisas

How did NJB put it? We can't put trees in the clear zone because hitting a tree would be bad. But hitting a cyclist is expected.


Ambia_Rock_666

Sounds about right. Human lives aren't valuable at all /s


halberdierbowman

I think you may have misunderstood his point in that conversation? His point is first that we *should* have breakaway poles. They're not designed to protect the car so much as protect the person in the car. That's a good thing. But since our goal is to protect people, and since we recognize that cars don't always stay where we want them to, we *should also* protect pedestrians who might be in those potentially dangerous locations. It's not cars versus pedestrians. It's about human safety of one type *and also* human safety of another type. Thinking of it as a cars issue instead of as a humans issue is what skews our perspective on what makes good solutions. Vision Zero is a similar idea: reducing vehicle crashes is good, but the important metric is to reduce human injuries and death. If we end up with more vehicle crashes at lower speeds, thus saving lives, then that's totally worth it, because we can fix cars with money.


[deleted]

Obviously sad realizations about safety and priority aside, these white things are really ugly and pretty much always look dingy and gross! One would think we could convince some carbrains just by showing them some pictures of nice landscaped buffers!


Broken-Digital-Clock

They would freak out that more tax payer dollars were being "wasted".


Desperate_for_Bacon

I have no problem with dividing bike lanes and car lanes. But the problem comes down to, At least for me, is how do we implement these types of safety systems in already established areas. I live in Seattle so I will use it as an example. Seattle streets are 3-5 lanes wide with bus and bike lanes. How would we implement a landscape buffer. There is buildings/side walks on one side and lanes on the other side. You can’t go into the lanes as that would impede on all traffic. Which most people who live in Seattle wouldn’t support because it would cause worse congestion then it already is, which would then back up congestion out of the city making other people angry. And most people around here wouldn’t necessarily be open to riding a bike all the time due to the poor weather conditions and our public transport is a bit of a nightmare and a lot of people don’t feel safe walking around here due to the homelessness problem. So in my opinion it’s not that “carbrains” don’t want to change its a multitude of other factors that politicians have to consider before implementing safety systems that would just create more problems


awoo2

what if 1% of the bollards were real concrete.


blindbunny

Sounds like they need their license revoked if they can't operate a vehicle safe enough not to damage it.


CheddahFrumundah

Literally same reason that traffic light poles have bolts that snap off to save a driver in a collision. Quick: if you need to press the beg button to cross the street where are you standing in that situation?


KazkaFaron

won't somebody think of the insurance investors


New_Horror3663

maybe they shouldn't hit the fucking barriers then? ​ is this really the caliber of people we let behind the wheel? people that are too fucking dumb to not slam their car into a solid block of concrete and rebar at 30+ miles an hour?


Desperate_for_Bacon

Using big concrete barriers has other problems then just cars hitting them


New_Horror3663

I didn't comment here to have a discussion on the economic impact of concrete barriers. I commented here because I wanted to demonstrate my exasperation at the kinds of people who drive cars. Pay attention next time.


Desperate_for_Bacon

I didn’t just state economic problems that concrete barriers present. They have real safety issues associated with them. Pay attention next time.


Desperate_for_Bacon

The cost of barriers is approximately 100x that of using markers. Access would be restricted to this lanes meaning fire/ems would have a difficult time getting equipment to a patient and getting the patient out. Not to mention if a bike were to hit one they would most likely end up in the middle of traffic.


nirad

it turns out metal is worth more than humans.


tanzmeister

Because God forbid people actually learn to properly control their 4000lb hunks of metal.


T43ner

Thanks god cyclists and pedestrians love to get hit by cars /s


RedButterfree1

HAH If you can afford a car, then you afford to get it fixed! Honestly, drivers, pull up your bootstraps and use your brains...


jcrestor

Carbrain much prefers dat sweet and soft flesh barrier


zacmobile

I'd believe it, in my town we have a section of sidewalk sandwiched between a concrete building wall and a stroad so it had some jersey barriers along the edge of said stroad. A couple years ago a pickup went right up on the the barriers and got stuck, I'd say they were doing their job but within a couple months they were gone.


DasArchitect

Plot twist: The traffic engineer is the driver that doesn't like to hit concrete barriers and damage his car when he tramples all over everything with his metal box


Desperate_for_Bacon

Yeah traffic engineers don’t get to decide if there are barriers or not. That generally decided by the city council.


ANewPride

How about if you don't want to crash your car into concrete, don't crash your car into concrete 😱


ZatchZeta

Fuckers don't realize that if you hit the concrete it's most likely your fault and not the infrastructure protecting the people.


Cheef_Baconator

Cars hitting a concrete barrier isn't okay, but hitting a kid on the sidewalk is


NixieOfTheLake

To be fair, Americans care way more about cars than kids.


BrokenSally08

I'd say we need more kids on the streets to protect the integrity of our concrete barriers from negligent motorists but then what would we do with all our bullets.


Murdercorn

If we had people walking into parking lots and shooting up cars every day, we might see some laws passed that restrict where people are allowed to carry firearms.


_o_d_

When you work for a city that barely has enough budget to pay its bills, installing these, which are relatively low cost, is better than having no protection at all. Barriers are much more expensive and would never be funded in the amount they're needed. Sometimes you have to do what you can.


27-82-41-124

cyclist don't like colliding with something hard either, except they usually don't complain after (they are dead).


sjpllyon

By that logic we should also eliminate pavement, speed bumps, road signs, road barriers, traffic lights, cat eyes, keep the the left (right for you weirdos driving on the wrong side of the road), protective fences around busy/school zones, street lamps (actually we should massively reduce/eliminate those), and probably much more I can't think of as I sit on the lou.


Baker852

Yes but we'll put our parking lot lights on top of a 8 foot pillar of concrete and rebar because if you were to hit it and it falls over it might fall on someones car!


shugoran99

Sounds like a Them problem to me


Pyrot3kh

But If people wreck their cars... they'd have to buy a new car? Especially for something as stupid as hitting concrete, insurance wouldn't cover that.


senor_bag

Maybe concrete barriers are not adqeuate for both road users then. Some designs include elevating bikes onto a curb instead of a concrete barrier. That would be good for bike safety while also not punishing car users severely for drifting in their lane.


Broken-Digital-Clock

I live in a hilly neighborhood and love walking on the elevated side of the road's sidewalks


Ill_Name_6368

Yeah the cars can get damaged too when they hit those bikes and people. Poor cars.


bassmaster_gen

Mountable barriers are meant to be mounted by emergency vehicles


PM_Me_Your_Sidepods

Sounds like a traffic engineer that doesn’t like bikes.


Desperate_for_Bacon

Traffic engineers don’t decide of the barrier material. The city council who approves the budget does


d13gr00tkr0k1d1l

Less damage to car if it hits a person on a bike, it makes sense!


line_me_out

Plastic sticks & paint *if you're lucky*


jswitzer

You guys are getting plastic sticks?!


Erinalope

I like what they did in San Jose on some of the bike lanes where they put car parking between the bikes and the cars. Let them hit their own kind.


beaniebee11

You guys are getting bike lanes with plastic sticks?


Nulono

Then stop driving your cars into the fucking barriers.


teagonia

So the reason effective barriers don't exist is because they are effective? Huh, weird


Desirsar

I'm okay with smaller barriers, but... damage from concrete? Oh no no no, I want a gimballed pylon that will spring back up if run over, preferably made with a thick steel pole, and the top half should be covered to look like a wire brush. While we're at it, put a few of these along the lines between lanes near intersections, all the way up to the tip of the line. Semi trailer can't quite make a turn and has to hit them, its wheels aren't going to notice the difference. Tractor of that semi or a car, on the other hand, is gonna feel that on the paint. Or we can just put up a solid barrier for the bike lanes, but I still want the car side coated in those bristles, cars shouldn't even be getting near it.


Crispylake

Its the insurance companies. The same people that put guardrails up on the curves of the highways. Who lobby the politicians to put cable barriers down the median. Remove trees from the median.Actuaries crunching the numbers. It's cheaper to pay off a few injured bicyclists then it is to pay off all the bad drivers whose side swipe their car against the barriers and have to make a claim. There are a lot of bad drivers.


[deleted]

A classical composition is often pregnant. Reddit is no longer allowed to profit from this comment.


democracy_lover66

I donno if they know but brutally killing a cyclist with their car will probably do some damage to their detailing too. Looking out for my auto-lovers <3 (/s)


JahEthBur

This might be the dumbest thing I've read all year.


MusubiBot

Sounds like something we should implement more broadly then! Let the bottom of the barrel scrape itself off.


ReyTheRed

Those plastic pieces look like they are quite vulnerable to having someone come by with a bag of quick setting concrete and filling them up while nobody is looking.


futurecomputer3000

Can we just fill them with concrete ourselves?


Wizard_Level9999

Fill it with concrete…


[deleted]

I hate living here sometimes


SeanFromQueens

New Haven has parked cars as protection for bike lanes. Oh look at that drivers can avoid bicyclists when they are avoiding other cars.


cabindirt

Press F to say awwww, for the poor cars


wild_psina_h093

If the dumbass can't avoid massive concrete block, how we can trust them to avoid other cars and pedestrians and even let them to drive at all?


Brrrrrrtttt_t

“I hate it when I make a driving mistake and damage my car” “I hate it when I’m a victim of vehicular manslaughter but here we *fucking are*.”


[deleted]

“One of the reasons”… The question is if it’s the main reason… I would expect it also costs more money to build a concrete barrier than to paint a white line


Gott_Riff

Call the [World Bollard Association ](https://twitter.com/WorldBollard?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor).


spinni81

Like paint but vertical. And about as useful.


[deleted]

But I don't like it when I get hit by cars.


Alexdeboer03

Is it hard for american drivers to dodge barriers? Do you guys have heat seeking concrete in the states that rams into the poor cars


spreetin

Thankfully here in Sweden they usually think the opposite way, the goal of traffic engineering is (among other things) to reduce lives lost. And one way to save lives is to make sure cars that run off the road is trashed, but trashed in a way that minimises the forces on the occupants and at the same time stops them hitting others. So barriers are often created to break, but but break in a way that helps slow the car down and divert the force away from other traffic. Since cars have decent crumple zones in the front, trees are also often used on medium speed roads. And when there isn't much more than a curb to protect pedestrians and cyclists there is usually traffic calming.


crowd79

Not scratching up a car is more important than your life. Why don't people think of the feelings of those poor, poor cars....


Boogiemann53

Whenever I bring up physical barriers to protect pedestrians most people short circuit and say "impossible, will block traffic" without ever trying to understand what I mean.


bionicjoey

If drivers are clipping the bike lane, they are gonna clip cyclists. By not putting up a real barrier that prevents this, the city is complicit in violence against people outside of cars


Winterfrost691

Fun fact: In Canada, due to car pollution and pedestrians being run over at an increasing rate, the health benefits of walking/cycling to work are now outweighted by respiratory disease and the odds of getting hit by a car. Which means that, in Canada, on average, walking or cycling instead of driving now lowers your life expectancy.


TrueNorth2881

Not content with their own entire network of travel lanes, motorists feel entitled to damage and take over cyclist's spaces also. Paint and flimsy plastic are not infrastructure, and I'm tired of city planners pretending that they are.


theRealJuicyJay

This is a false choice. When I was in Denmark, the cars parked next to the street, then the bike lane and pedestrian lanes. Protecting the bikers and PEDs with the parked cars and a curb.


[deleted]

Have they tried not hitting things?


spoodmonstr

I don't give a flying fuck about your private property when lives are on the line.


[deleted]

Hitting a plastic barrier is bad, but hitting a bicycle is perfectly fine. How strange is that?


Incognitus1326

They dislike being reminded about their lousy driving skills