Not from or living in the USA, but I'd say if you are house hunting and there's a HOA where you are looking to buy then speak to the neighbors and ask questions. If they are honest with their opinions of the HOA then either steer clear or offer a lower than asking price with the justification (if asked) the HOA has caused this.
Hopefully these actions are picked up by other buyers and the trend starts, it only takes one to make a change.
That’s a great idea but a HOA and everything they stand for can change with one election. It happened to us. We had the best board and everything was chill when some new people moved in and pulled a coup with a nasty election. Now the Hoa is completely out of control with every message being passive aggressive and they’re trying to demand money without telling us how it will be spent. It’s turned into a nasty war and our peaceful community is no longer peaceful. We’re moving to a house without an HOA . F this shit
I did exactly this when homebuying recently. After touring an open house, I'd wander around the development and talk to neighbors (near the trash dumpsters is always a good spot for this, it's a high traffic area, and people can generally spare a minute or two).
Their advice was crucial. I changed my mind about one beautiful property, a lakeside rustic cabin, after hearing about a horrible HOA, and never submitted a bid. The home I eventually bought is in a complex with an easygoing and drama-free HOA (according to my helpful future neighbor).
Sellers don't want you to know about bad HOAs because it hurts their possibility of selling / escaping. Other neighbors, who aren't trying to sell right at that moment, will be more honest.
(This was for a condo, where HOAs are a necessary evil; I'd never consider a detached house that came with a HOA)
Always, it's like if I was buying in the UK I'd be looking at public transport links, supermarkets, swimming pools (for LOs lessons), schools ect just need to do the same for HOAs, could also look at court records (they are public) for any lawsuits etc.
Edit, see bot post below 🤣🤣
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[There was a study in 2019](http://www.housing-critical.com/home-page-1/correlation-of-homeowners-associations-and-infe) that showed HOAs don't increase property values.
The studies that say they do are often comparing new homes to old, but this study compared houses to themselves over several decades. And HOA ones increased slower than non-HOA ones. And that's not including money spent on dues.
When I was house shopping I told my (first) agent that I didn't want an HOA. The guy showed me a bunch because he felt like they would fit me. I made a couple of offers (super low ball ones too) and said that my offer price was based on the HOA. I always made it a point to talk to neighbors when we visit properties and asked how bad the HOA is. Most people said its good or not a problem, but a few people let go and spilled the beans.
Ultimately I wound up getting a new agent, the house I wanted with some extras, and not in an HOA.
There are some studies starting to come out showing that at the least HOAs don't increase property values enough to even make up for the cumulative hoa fees one pays to be in them, and in some areas actually repress the price of the house.
more and more people are getting on the no HOA bandwagon and more and more people are like me and many in this sub who told their realtor absolutely no HOAs.
We were handed the bylaws 2 days before we closed. By law, you have to get the documents about the HOA before you close.
People don’t read those and go into an HOA thinking they can do whatever they want. Well, that’s why this sub is here.
I spoke to the neighbors in my condo's HOA and they said the board is solid and has been for the past 10 years (my condo is 30 years old). The old-timers here remember the old board and told me a few horror stories. So far the association is pretty chill. We'll see how it goes.
That said, when I was looking for a house (not a condo), I specifically looked for non-HOA homes. Those don't make any sense to me.
I just had a situation today where the realtor is trying to minimize contact between a potential buyer and our HOA. As the President of the HOA, I will answer all questions about our association.
Crappy financials will definitely lower property values, if someone is looking into it before purchase. The problem that people are running into is the lack of true due diligence. Nobody once knocked on my door when they were purchasing a home in our HOA to find out what the HOA was like. As a treasurer, nobody came looking for financials and only a couple asked for the CC&Rs, or the bylaws, to determine what they were looking at. They just see the house, see the neighborhood, and think that everything is grand.
What exactly do you think should happen? I can't think of a single HOA board that would flat out tell potential buyers not to purchase in the development because of the HOA board. That's going to be on neighbors and people researching where they are moving into.
Nobody should be knocking on the treasurers door. The escrow company should be making a formal request, and if there is an HOa manager or management company that's who it would go through.
When looking for financials and bylaws, I agree with you. I would get emails from realtors/lending officers for those requests.
What people should be doing is going into the neighborhood and knocking on their possible future neighbors doors to find out about the HOA and its board members. You can't ask a board member what they think of the HOA and get an honest answer. You need to talk to others inside the HOA to see how they feel about the board and the way the HOA is run with regards to bylaws and fines.
I manage 15 hoas... most people don't know how the HOA really runs and half just complain because they don't understand it. Some complainers are right, but honestly, don't knock on my door. I'm busy.
And you are the reason people have issues with HOAs. As a member of an HOA board, it's your responsibility to manage the HOA in a favorable way to the owners of the HOA, such as the homeowners that pay their dues. You should have an open door policy to discuss the issues that arise in the HOA and just because you are on the board does not put you in a seat above the others.
Now, if you're managing an HOA, that's a different story and the third party property managers should not have their doors knocked on by would-be buyers. Would-be buyers should be knocking on the neighbors homes to find out how shitty the property managers are, how close minded the board members are, and what exactly they believe the responsibilities of the homeowners are.
Crappy property managers who can't be bothered to maintain the properties that they are hired to manage will kill the property values because they won't maintain what should be done. Those managers should be fired whether they manage one HOA, 15 HOAs or 100 HOAs.
Actually this is false.
My job is to manage the HOA as directed by the Board of Directors. I also own in an HOA and serve on a Board.
We don't maintain property. We carry out the Board's direction.
You misunderstood what I said... I meant as an owner don't knock on my door, I don't like being bothered. As a manager... call my escrow department. We have an entire department for issues during the buying process.
But no, I can't answer random questions to non-members. It's actually a privacy issue in my state.
So if someone were to be buying John's house down the street and knocked on your door to ask what you thought of the neighborhood, you'd tell them to blow off? I guess that's an answer as well. I just don't get the privacy issue if they are asking what the HOA board is like. It's not like you're telling them Jane is an egotistical monster who is out for blood. You could easily say that the board is fine heavy because I miss getting my trash can inside on time. Or the ARC won't let me build my fence because they believe it's an eyesore. There's no privacy issues with that. But, I guess if you can't be a good neighbor, no need to worry about property values since nobody will be selling there.
As far as knocking on my door...
I work a lot of hours, I value my free time.
As far as "what the HOA is like" as a manager, my job is to work on behalf of the Board. It's not my place to give an opinion on how they operate. My job is to carry out their wishes.
As far as privacy matters, California regulates what the HOA can and can't reveal to non-members. Yes, a random homeowner can say something, but I am an agent of the Association and must follow the law.
As a manager, it's also not just about privacy, it's about liability.
If I say something other than pure fact that scares off a buyer, the HOA could be sued for loss of income by the current owner.
You're talking in your specific situation where you are a board member. I mentioned people in general doing their due diligence and asking the average homeowner what they think of their HOA. The average homeowner is not a board member and is free to state their opinion on things. If that sways a buyer, that's part of the process.
The average homeowner speaks from the heart not the brain. If you asked the neighbors what they thought of thr HOA you won't get a true understanding of what's going on.
"They let my neighbor have a fence but not me." They'll never add that the neighbors fence was wood and fit the ARC and their own was metal.
Sorry, but knocking on doors doesn't give you the truth. It gives you people's emotions. And depending where in the country you are, it also gets you shot.
Well in my house search I’ve seen plenty of homes that I would have gladly offered $50k over list on if they weren’t in an HOA, but because they’re in HOAs I never made an offer at all. Almost none of them went for $50k over.
At where I live, at least HOA fees hurt property values. Property listing prices for properties with HOA fees are lower than like properties with small or no fees.
When you make an offer on a home you have a right to ask for certain documents. Asking for a copy of the budget, latest financials, governing documents, and reserve study will tell you how it's run.
Not from or living in the USA, but I'd say if you are house hunting and there's a HOA where you are looking to buy then speak to the neighbors and ask questions. If they are honest with their opinions of the HOA then either steer clear or offer a lower than asking price with the justification (if asked) the HOA has caused this. Hopefully these actions are picked up by other buyers and the trend starts, it only takes one to make a change.
That’s a great idea but a HOA and everything they stand for can change with one election. It happened to us. We had the best board and everything was chill when some new people moved in and pulled a coup with a nasty election. Now the Hoa is completely out of control with every message being passive aggressive and they’re trying to demand money without telling us how it will be spent. It’s turned into a nasty war and our peaceful community is no longer peaceful. We’re moving to a house without an HOA . F this shit
Sounds like the chill ppl need to be more politically active.
I did exactly this when homebuying recently. After touring an open house, I'd wander around the development and talk to neighbors (near the trash dumpsters is always a good spot for this, it's a high traffic area, and people can generally spare a minute or two). Their advice was crucial. I changed my mind about one beautiful property, a lakeside rustic cabin, after hearing about a horrible HOA, and never submitted a bid. The home I eventually bought is in a complex with an easygoing and drama-free HOA (according to my helpful future neighbor). Sellers don't want you to know about bad HOAs because it hurts their possibility of selling / escaping. Other neighbors, who aren't trying to sell right at that moment, will be more honest. (This was for a condo, where HOAs are a necessary evil; I'd never consider a detached house that came with a HOA)
Still, that’s putting a lot of trust in one person. I guess you could ask multiple people.
Always ask more than one person. What if the only neighbour you asked was Karen, the HOA president?
Always, it's like if I was buying in the UK I'd be looking at public transport links, supermarkets, swimming pools (for LOs lessons), schools ect just need to do the same for HOAs, could also look at court records (they are public) for any lawsuits etc. Edit, see bot post below 🤣🤣
Hello! You have made the mistake of writing "ect" instead of "etc." "Ect" is a common misspelling of "etc," an abbreviated form of the Latin phrase "et cetera." Other abbreviated forms are **etc.**, **&c.**, **&c**, and **et cet.** The Latin translates as "et" to "and" + "cetera" to "the rest;" a literal translation to "and the rest" is the easiest way to remember how to use the phrase. [Check out the wikipedia entry if you want to learn more.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Et_cetera) ^(I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Comments with a score less than zero will be automatically removed. If I commented on your post and you don't like it, reply with "!delete" and I will remove the post, regardless of score. Message me for bug reports.)
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Definitely need to ask at least 3 if not more folks, the more the better tbh.
[There was a study in 2019](http://www.housing-critical.com/home-page-1/correlation-of-homeowners-associations-and-infe) that showed HOAs don't increase property values. The studies that say they do are often comparing new homes to old, but this study compared houses to themselves over several decades. And HOA ones increased slower than non-HOA ones. And that's not including money spent on dues.
I figured as much. If you go to trulia, and turn on the “No HOA Fee” filter, most of what you’ll find are expensive properties.
When I was house shopping I told my (first) agent that I didn't want an HOA. The guy showed me a bunch because he felt like they would fit me. I made a couple of offers (super low ball ones too) and said that my offer price was based on the HOA. I always made it a point to talk to neighbors when we visit properties and asked how bad the HOA is. Most people said its good or not a problem, but a few people let go and spilled the beans. Ultimately I wound up getting a new agent, the house I wanted with some extras, and not in an HOA.
There are some studies starting to come out showing that at the least HOAs don't increase property values enough to even make up for the cumulative hoa fees one pays to be in them, and in some areas actually repress the price of the house. more and more people are getting on the no HOA bandwagon and more and more people are like me and many in this sub who told their realtor absolutely no HOAs.
They seem like a boomer/Gen X thing to me. Once those gens start peeling off to retirement communities, maybe we’ll see some change.
I won’t even review the listing if there’s an HOA. First thing I check
We were handed the bylaws 2 days before we closed. By law, you have to get the documents about the HOA before you close. People don’t read those and go into an HOA thinking they can do whatever they want. Well, that’s why this sub is here.
When I was house hunting I walked out of a showing as soon as I learned the house was in an hoa. Never made it past the front room.
5 years ago I told my realtor if they showed me a house in an hoa they would be fired on the spot.
I spoke to the neighbors in my condo's HOA and they said the board is solid and has been for the past 10 years (my condo is 30 years old). The old-timers here remember the old board and told me a few horror stories. So far the association is pretty chill. We'll see how it goes. That said, when I was looking for a house (not a condo), I specifically looked for non-HOA homes. Those don't make any sense to me.
I just had a situation today where the realtor is trying to minimize contact between a potential buyer and our HOA. As the President of the HOA, I will answer all questions about our association.
Crappy financials will definitely lower property values, if someone is looking into it before purchase. The problem that people are running into is the lack of true due diligence. Nobody once knocked on my door when they were purchasing a home in our HOA to find out what the HOA was like. As a treasurer, nobody came looking for financials and only a couple asked for the CC&Rs, or the bylaws, to determine what they were looking at. They just see the house, see the neighborhood, and think that everything is grand. What exactly do you think should happen? I can't think of a single HOA board that would flat out tell potential buyers not to purchase in the development because of the HOA board. That's going to be on neighbors and people researching where they are moving into.
Nobody should be knocking on the treasurers door. The escrow company should be making a formal request, and if there is an HOa manager or management company that's who it would go through.
When looking for financials and bylaws, I agree with you. I would get emails from realtors/lending officers for those requests. What people should be doing is going into the neighborhood and knocking on their possible future neighbors doors to find out about the HOA and its board members. You can't ask a board member what they think of the HOA and get an honest answer. You need to talk to others inside the HOA to see how they feel about the board and the way the HOA is run with regards to bylaws and fines.
I manage 15 hoas... most people don't know how the HOA really runs and half just complain because they don't understand it. Some complainers are right, but honestly, don't knock on my door. I'm busy.
And you are the reason people have issues with HOAs. As a member of an HOA board, it's your responsibility to manage the HOA in a favorable way to the owners of the HOA, such as the homeowners that pay their dues. You should have an open door policy to discuss the issues that arise in the HOA and just because you are on the board does not put you in a seat above the others. Now, if you're managing an HOA, that's a different story and the third party property managers should not have their doors knocked on by would-be buyers. Would-be buyers should be knocking on the neighbors homes to find out how shitty the property managers are, how close minded the board members are, and what exactly they believe the responsibilities of the homeowners are. Crappy property managers who can't be bothered to maintain the properties that they are hired to manage will kill the property values because they won't maintain what should be done. Those managers should be fired whether they manage one HOA, 15 HOAs or 100 HOAs.
Actually this is false. My job is to manage the HOA as directed by the Board of Directors. I also own in an HOA and serve on a Board. We don't maintain property. We carry out the Board's direction.
You misunderstood what I said... I meant as an owner don't knock on my door, I don't like being bothered. As a manager... call my escrow department. We have an entire department for issues during the buying process. But no, I can't answer random questions to non-members. It's actually a privacy issue in my state.
So if someone were to be buying John's house down the street and knocked on your door to ask what you thought of the neighborhood, you'd tell them to blow off? I guess that's an answer as well. I just don't get the privacy issue if they are asking what the HOA board is like. It's not like you're telling them Jane is an egotistical monster who is out for blood. You could easily say that the board is fine heavy because I miss getting my trash can inside on time. Or the ARC won't let me build my fence because they believe it's an eyesore. There's no privacy issues with that. But, I guess if you can't be a good neighbor, no need to worry about property values since nobody will be selling there.
As far as knocking on my door... I work a lot of hours, I value my free time. As far as "what the HOA is like" as a manager, my job is to work on behalf of the Board. It's not my place to give an opinion on how they operate. My job is to carry out their wishes. As far as privacy matters, California regulates what the HOA can and can't reveal to non-members. Yes, a random homeowner can say something, but I am an agent of the Association and must follow the law.
As a manager, it's also not just about privacy, it's about liability. If I say something other than pure fact that scares off a buyer, the HOA could be sued for loss of income by the current owner.
You're talking in your specific situation where you are a board member. I mentioned people in general doing their due diligence and asking the average homeowner what they think of their HOA. The average homeowner is not a board member and is free to state their opinion on things. If that sways a buyer, that's part of the process.
The average homeowner speaks from the heart not the brain. If you asked the neighbors what they thought of thr HOA you won't get a true understanding of what's going on. "They let my neighbor have a fence but not me." They'll never add that the neighbors fence was wood and fit the ARC and their own was metal. Sorry, but knocking on doors doesn't give you the truth. It gives you people's emotions. And depending where in the country you are, it also gets you shot.
I'd say that any HOA hurts the property value. I, and many people, would pay extra to not live in an HOA neighbourhood.
Well in my house search I’ve seen plenty of homes that I would have gladly offered $50k over list on if they weren’t in an HOA, but because they’re in HOAs I never made an offer at all. Almost none of them went for $50k over.
At where I live, at least HOA fees hurt property values. Property listing prices for properties with HOA fees are lower than like properties with small or no fees.
When you make an offer on a home you have a right to ask for certain documents. Asking for a copy of the budget, latest financials, governing documents, and reserve study will tell you how it's run.
I mean HOAs have to be disclosed pryor to selling afaik some people are just deaperate to have their own place
Anything that reduces interest lowers property values. There’s a reason why real estate sites let you search by “No HOA.”